Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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In post 206, pirate mollie wrote:I can't tell if that is a yes or athe red x is confusing but since you are still posting in images I am still guessing you do unless you are trolling me and then I will hunt you down and...I will think of something.no-
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In post 235, pirate mollie wrote:could you mebbe post another pictureSpoiler: Another picture
Vote: ArcAngel-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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In post 270, penguin_alien wrote:I like words better than pictures, obviously I'm in the minority there.Spoiler: Post 3.5-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Spoiler: Post 3.9
I actually posted the images in spoiler tags because it would be irritating to have them load up every time you browse from a mobile device and need to scroll through them.In post 284, penguin_alien wrote:I'll assume that's 'heresy' although now that I'm on my tablet I'll add that it's annoying not to be able to see the whole pic in the thread too.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Let's see - I don't have any reads that scream scum yet
Town
Wisdom - General posting and anybody who posts what I'm thinking always get's town points"Matt, why do you think Arc and Nacho are town?"
Mirari - Town. We're good at reading each other and play\posting looks very town.
Whiskers - Vibe - seems town.
Neutral+
MattP - Too quick to add Nacho, Arc as town but looks earnest in trying to get shos lynched
Neutral
Nachomamma8
Malakittens
penguin_alien
Desperado
Grimgroove - Unlikely to be scum with shos, I think
shos - I hated that he did a pbpA for 12 pages since it's something I like to do as scum - but other than that - have nothing oh him
Neutral-
ArcAngel9 - Needs to post. Also too many people have written her off as town. (without there being much to back it up)
pirate mollie
- Mollie's tone seems off - I have a town baseline and this is not it. But that's based off one game and Mala apparently has more experience on mollie's game so disregarding my meta knowledge for now
- I also didnt like the whiskers vote-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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A lot of (needless) hostility in this post and the one above. I can understand if you thought he was scum (some people get angry and are rude at scum suspects) - but this looks like you're trying to undermine\ridicule Wisdom.In post 474, Whiskers wrote:
Whoa, whoa, I thought we could only use meta, man. Only meta tells are effective in scumhunting. It is theIn post 466, Wisdom wrote:
And he is now even using misreps to make conclusions. This is done by scum, every time.In post 452, Whiskers wrote:Wisdom can't understand and has to dip his fingers into every post MattP makes,major scumhunting tool!
Do you guys have a playing history?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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By above - I meant Whisker's post with the spoilers.In post 479, ooba wrote:A lot of (needless) hostility in this post and the one above.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I wanted to check because I can also attribute that behaviour to bad blood from previous games.
Since it's not - I do believe we have something here.
Unvote. Vote: Whiskers
If Whiskers is scum, I'd wager that the person who confused Wisdom and Whiskers isn't scum with Whiskers.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Umm Des?In post 476, Whiskers wrote:And I can't say that makes you scum. But I can say that no other players in the game have the relationship that you have. It's really great that you trust each other so much. You must be so happy together.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I looked at that and got paranoid because she whipped it out after I mentioned that her play this game felt off-tone to the last.In post 641, Malakittens wrote:
Yeah I saw it earlier and it strengthened the TR I had on her.In post 638, Nachomamma8 wrote:Yeah, it's like her signature move.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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- Call me a newb, but I had the same reaction after Whisker's posts to mollie - i.e. that whisker's has read\played with mollie before.
That entire exchange was very town from mollie. If she's so good as to manufacture posts like that as scum, then power to her. I am not for lynching her anymore on D1.
- Whiskers - call it vibe. I don't see scum would choosing to open on D1 with a bunch of caustic posts directed at everyone. I actually see a scumhunting method behind the madness.
I didn't like the Mala towntell on mollie for the chair. I understand the reasoning but it also gives me vibes of scum calling a townie town too easily.
That makes four people I won't lynch today: (Can I also take this time to say Nacho-Arc still looks good)
shos
Malakittens
Wisdom
Nachomamma8
ArcAngel9*
penguin_alien
Desperado
pirate mollie
Whiskers
MattP
Grimgroove
Mirari-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Why should this be worrying?In post 760, Herself wrote:*grits teeth*
doesn't the fact that he is treating you as town (if you are indeed town) worry you?
Also worth noting that mollie's account slips have nearly reached Arc's total posts this game.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Matt, your penguin read\lynch push seems disingenuous
First off the case itself seemed pretty overblown but I can live with that:
You reinforce here that Penguin is a good lynchIn post 658, MattP wrote:There's no way you don't see the arguments. You would at WORST understand our point of view but disagree with it. Your stance is so ridiculously unbelievable I am pretty certain that you're just making it up.
Also, you just simultaneously said you don't understand the case on shos and that you haven't followed the game.
VOTE: Penguin_Alien
AtbestI believe you're scum and WKing Shos-town. More likely is that Shos is your buddy and you're trying to shift focus elsewhere while not strongly committing to a Shos townread (I don't see what other's see but I'm also not really following). You also know I just dropped my PM townread and now you're pushing her softly.
Pirate Mollie is town more so than anyone if Penguin flips scum. Shos is probably scum as well.
But then it changes to track to "let's pressurise penguin to contribute"In post 765, MattP wrote:I think it makes a lot of sense to just lynch Penguin here over Mollie or ShosIn post 767, MattP wrote:
At least Pirate and Shos give a shit? Penguin is scummy and active lurking, Shos is scummy but providing content, Pirate Mollie is being her typical self that she said she wouldn't be but then slipped into anyway. Relationally Penguin is treating other people bizarrely (i.e. her soft push of Pirate and soft defense of Shos), and Shos has outgrown his Grim buddying years to a respectable degree.In post 766, Wisdom wrote:How does that make sense?
Continuing on to the "we can get him to contribute" - your tone has totally changed from the previous let's lynch penguin stance:In post 768, MattP wrote:Plus, if we're three days into a game and we have a 2 week deadline and there's not much at this point to get out of Shos from pressure because believe me we've seen it all at thevery leastone can appreciate some Penguin pressure at this point.
And when the penguin lynch picks up steam with both me and wisdom voting him, you're suddenly paranoid about wisdom?In post 772, MattP wrote:
Penguin either:In post 769, Wisdom wrote:I don't know, I think she might be town, especially if mollie isn't.
She said she will post today, let's see.
a) Doesn't care at all about this game
b) Is scum
I don't like when people get away with "a" for a prolonged period of time. The great thing about it is that we can correct it and immediately get an answer on "b". You can't correct Mollie's attitude as is obvious by this point. You can't correct Whisker's insufferable ability to spoil the fun of a forum game for the majority of the player list and incite destructive discussion. You can't make Shos stop being frenetic. Wecanpossibly, hopefully, get Penguin to get invested in the game.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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This is what I was thinking yesterday as well. I'll add Matt to the not lynching pile for D1 as well - not in the same tier as the other four reads though. (Wis, Mirari, Whis, mollie) - not even comfortable calling him "town" yet - just don't want to lynch D1.Matt wrote:This is a good game, btw. Scum are playing well, really every player sans Penguin is doing a damn good job of appearing town. Simultaneously, town are for the most part remaining calm and letting things take as much time as they need rather than falling apart. I like this. Nice first game back.
Also on the quoted above, one scum may not be playing at all (Arc) - She should post soon.
I feel a bit less paranoid on Nacho solely due to the people on his wagon (ArcAngel9, shos, Grimgroove).
Which leaves
shos
Malakittens
ArcAngel9*
penguin_alien
Desperado
Grimgroove-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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There's nothing that made me go "that's town"@Wisdom:"ooba, why do you not like Grimgroove?"
I cannot comment about online play because like Mirari mentioned - this is our first game together. However, we have played IRL before. However, there are three things that make me feel better about Mirari:@Mala: I want to hear more on Ooba and Mirari. Ooba I want to hear your thoughts on Mirari saying that he can read you well because you both live together.
- As scum in our IRL games, Mirari always has the tendency to attack me. Usually lines like "He is scum" with no particular reasoning.
- I wouldn't call it 'playing as a team exactly' but when we play IRL, we tend to refine our reads by discussing it interacting with each other. Mirari initially commenting on my not posting ("Where's my beloved ooba?") plus trying to get me to change my vote from Arc ("Ooba, hun, you should probably change your vote.") fits with her town profile.
Mirari reads me better than the average player. But I was initially paranoid about the sheer number of "ooba is town" at the start. But on reflection, there are signs to her town meta than scum(see above) and overall, feels strong town to me.
I always take a bit of time to build up - I get emoitionaly invested in a game over time. I'm hardly useless this game though.@Nacho: Ooba posting remains low energy which makes me sad.
How exactly is it plainly wrong?@shos:ooba's post is plainly wrong imo. that's a bad post. it's just wrong and misrepful imo.
@Matt:
Does you technique account for length of actual games or total number of posts made by that player? I like the analysis but think (No. of times player posted scum)/(Total number of posts by player in game) would be a better metric to measure.
Shos's 1023 post was so overactive - just gave me bad vibes all around. But I'm trying to see if it falls into the "it's soo bad it cannot be scum" category and figure out possible partners based on reactions\voting if he's scum.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Love mollie's town list.
Also agree with Mirari's post - except add Nacho to the town pile too.
In post 1359, Mirari wrote:I think penguin is our best bet for hitting scum, shos being second best
VOTE: Penguin-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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^ this postIn post 1236, pirate mollie wrote:matt, nacho, wis are town <------ don't touch them
I am still working out other things. ooba and that mirari girl are interesting and might be a strong town unit.
I lack conviction in my shos vote tbh-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Not interested in mass claiming - sorry.
You cannot accurately predict downsides to the flavor claim - scum having a deathnote, scum role blocker who can block if he names the character, scum getting extra powers if they kill particular roles (my previous game had that for killing Poseidon and Zeus - they had tokens that gave special powers).
Not to mention, if it's smart scum, they can deduce possible roles based on flavor\what's already claimed and can kill off the more powerful roles.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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It would be easier since scum have an idea of their own roles plus power levels and can work backwords to guess at town power levels and fill out other possible roles.
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Instead of trying to play outguess the mod, I'd like to consider motivations:In post 1508, Grimgroove wrote:So people are actually entertaining the idea of there being two town-neighborizers in this game? Have you all gone insane?
- Matt claimed with no impetus at all. I'd like that cleared up. (esp. since it had nothing to do with Mala's lynch or his read on her).
But I find this behaviour very strange for scum - the only possible scum angle to it could be Wisdom's "Matt's trying to distract us" reasoning (which I guess to a certain extent has worked since we're now talking claims and not reads\lynches)
- Whisker's looks much better since the claim came second. Scum wouldn't willingly get into one of those double claim situations.
It also helps that my read on both of them was the town side of neutral.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Honestly, there was no danger of Matt getting lynched today. Most people thought he was scum with Mala and wanted to lynch Mala first. Unless the Matt-Mala pairing is really true and this was a smoke screen to distract, Matt scum should have read the situation easily and wouldn't have done this.In post 1517, Grimgroove wrote:It's not strange.
This is how it is:
MattP is a neighborizer scum.When he sees this role, claiming "neighborizer" is normally a good strategy to get the heat off of you for a while.It's generally a pro-town role earning you an e asy townread, it's weak enough in order for people not to freak out over an early claim.
He didn't take into account there's also a neighborizer town, in this case Whiskers.
There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I should point out here that quoted statement was Grim's - not mine.In post 1564, Whiskers wrote:
Why?In post 1517, Grimgroove wrote:In post 1515, ooba wrote:There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.
Why can't there be two of every animal?
I just want to point out that, I'm the "other neighborizer," and I'm the "unanimous townread." So maybe it should add some weight that I'm the one saying this?
My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Not alignment indicative - flavor wise this is pretty strong - esp. the day\night dual nature.In post 1564, Whiskers wrote:My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?
Also - if possible, I would like the neighbourizers to consider me when neighbourizing. It should be beneficial.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I forgot he did. Now I'm confused flavor wise because I expected him to be Artemis....
Apollo - Associated with the Sun - Day Neighbourizer
Artemis - Associated with the Moon - Night Neighbourizer
seemed to make flavor-sense and fit.
In post 1467, MattP wrote:Hephaestus, 2-shot neighborizer-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I would say that if you have your day-shot still left today, you should use it on me now.In post 1584, Whiskers wrote:Yeah, maybe. Will you be more talkative if I neighborize you than you have been in the thread? Because if not, it'd really be a waste, wouldn't it?
Also, since I'm a Dayborizer, would it really be useful to you?
^P-edit: Lol. Does your neighbourizing power flavor mention the "Sun" by any chance?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I haven't played with Matt before and I'm really not great at meta analysis.In post 1581, Mirari wrote:Ooba (and wisdom) I think you need to look at Matt as a player and see if this fits into his town profile. The claim should give you sole hints as to what I mean.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Bye mollie.In post 1977, pirate mollie wrote:@ mod - due to changes IRL circumstances I request to be replaced. sorry guys.
I'm back and reading - upto fitz's claim - I like this setup already-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Regarding the setup:
- Wisdom's theory on Male neighbourizers forming 'lover' pairs seem bang on - it also makes me feel better about the Haep being N claim
- There necessarily does not have to be 1 scum amongst the Ns. Here's what I think:
-- I do not think any of them {Ns - Whis, Matt, fitz + QTCop - Mala + Virgin - Grim} are lying about their role
-- Amongst the Ns - fitz has the biggest probability of being scum. Him not claiming would look worse later and claiming now puts additional pressure on the Matt wagon.
Overall: This list {Whis, Matt, fitz, Mala, Grim} has at least 4 town IMO.
Over the last twenty pages:
Nacho: I just completed a scum game with Nacho. Nacho not posting is always a warning sign. But his iPad excuse + level of conviction isn't something I would expect from scum Nacho. Not calling town - but not lynching.
Grim: I liked Grim's couple of posts. (Not the '1 of them have to be scum', but the posts before that)
shos: I hate the 'terribad crumb is bad' and 'useless role' theories to lynch Mala. Still not sure if he's scum though.
Overall:
Removing Town (Wisdom, Mirari, Whiskers, Mollie) & the Neutral+ (Matt, Mala, Nacho, Grim) - it narrows down my lynch candidates to:
Fitz
shos
Desp
Peng
Wisdom - you're wrong on Mirari. I can't see this as her scum game at all.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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And here I was - trying to see if I can find associations between those players. I know if I've placed one scum at the Town or Neutral+ where they don't belong - but I'd be shocked if the list {shos, Des, fitz, Peng} did not contain 2 scum.No, ooba, you are wrong. And not just on Mirari. Your lynchpool is 4 townies.
Penguin is quick to call both the AA9\fitz slots town - both of which are flimsy reasons:AA9 is saying all the town-AA9 things, but in a game like this where she knows a decent number of people, I'd expect the interactive part of her style to be more front-and-center. Heaven knows I get being behind, but it's a drastic falloff. On the other hand, her defensiveness about it is townish, so I'd let it slide pending further info.havingfitz can be town for his answer to Mala's questioning his read on her; no frantic looking for specifics to back him up, just the town replacement attitude of 'let me get a feel for what's going on, make gut reads, and proceed from there.'-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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The emotional thing\reaction to whiskers.In post 2003, Wisdom wrote:This is the list that contains most (if not all) scum: {Mirari, mollie, Nacho, Matt}.
You have 2 of these in your townpile and two in your null. You need to reconsider.
Why are you townreading mollie?
That said - mollie's probably the least recent person to have done something that had a good vibe of all those 8.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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It didnt look fake-able. Scum mollie wouldn't have reacted like that.In post 2005, Wisdom wrote:Why are you townreading her for that?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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What did you just call me??In post 2331, shos wrote:Ooba was a slit i considered sorta switzerland.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Sounds like B-movie taglines...In post 2335, Whiskers wrote:Am I just scum with an erection for danger? Do I merely want a brush with death? To play necksies with the business end of a noose?
I was checking out VCs and penguin hasn't moved\changed her vote from Mirari all throughout the day. wow.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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That the informational content of any voting was very low.In post 2345, Wisdom wrote:Your point being?
Went through ISO - Penguins most probable team mate is fitz as mentioned before. This early question is particularly telling as it tries to link me to AA9:
GG is another possibility just based on the reads list + interactions with others (so I can knock em off).ooba, where's the AA9 vote coming from?
I assumed he found either Whiskers or Nacho also scummy in context.
Why exactly?In post 2241, Malakittens wrote:I'm actually starting to get cold feet about Peng being scum
So in the meantime
UNVOTE: Peng-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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^Wisdom: It helps me scum hunt better to think in terms of partners even before flips. That way, even if I'm wrong, helps me refocus better than lone scum\town reads.
^GG: Not the most refined analysis but its a combination of two theories. I'll explain the first one now because I'd still like to keep the second one to myself. Thebucket theorystates that scum are most likely to put scum partners in different buckets in a big read list.
So if I look at penguin and fitz, the other one could be bucket one or three. The only possibility in three is probably mollie because I have strong reads on {Mirari, Mala}, but penguins early comment on mollie doesn't look like partners so eliminating that.
Bucket 1:
- shos was defended too heavily for my liking to be a partner
- I have a big town read on Wisdom
- So it boiled down to Whiskers and you but eventually settled on you because Whiskers + fitz would make it two neighbourizer scum
I checked after I posted - you also have fitz and peng in different buckets!In post 992, penguin_alien wrote:Town:
shos
GG
Whiskers
Wisdom
Town enough I would disagree with their lynch:
AA9
Desperado
MattP
Nacho
ooba
Scum enough that I wouldn't condemn their lynch:
Mirari
Mala
mollie-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Lol. Shos is town because he's funny!In post 2350, shos wrote:
oh you know just what I said you dirty little slotIn post 2343, ooba wrote:
What did you just call me??In post 2331, shos wrote:Ooba was a slit i considered sorta switzerland.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Anyway, as I was saying... This is what the setup is:In post 2347, ooba wrote:That scum team also coincides with what I think about the setup... Let me think about this...
3 x Neighbourizers
- Apollo
- Haep
- Hermes
3 x Virgins (Cannot be Neighbourzied)
- Artemis
- Athena
- Hestia
1 x QT Cop
- Aphrodite
- Rest (Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera, Demeter, Ares)
Anyway the entire game seems to be designed on QT shenanigans so Mala being scum is out of the question. What I meant by my previous scum team fitting the setup theory is that I expect one scum to be in the Neighbourizers (fitz), one in the virgins (Grim) and one in the rest (Peng).-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Scum virgin = Godfather role so there's an elegance to that design.In post 2360, shos wrote:why do you think there would be a scum virgin? dunno why it doesn't sit well on me.
and three virgins is hard to believe as well; the gods are definitely not virgins, and we only have one virgin claim, so that's odd.
All three I mentioned are virgins
http://camphalfblood.wikia.com/wiki/Virgin_Goddesses
Actually, we have two virgin claims if you're reading between the lines. (Also the inspiration for the theory)
^P-edit: Additionally, ooba, have you noticed that there are only 12 "big named" gods?
Ya I noticed - Hestia is the other olympian in the game though - Also fits with the theory.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I don't but you can make it happen by voting her!In post 2361, Wisdom wrote:Why? Because he's acting as if his scumread flipped scum? How is that genuine when he doesn't know if penguin will even flip scum?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Makes sense - Also like that you're one step ahead of me here.In post 2367, Wisdom wrote:I think we should have the other Virgins claim, if they exist, to confirm your theory. It's sounding very accurate right now.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Well, I was actually thinking about that yesterday. We're all assuming that scum share a QT or all of them do. I was thinking of a setup where the scum virgin godfather knows his partners, but is not part of the QT and controls the kill till he dies\is lynched. The other two scum share a QT and get kill control if the godfather is out of the game.In post 2369, Wisdom wrote:
Wait, even if they're immune to being neighborized, don't they still have a QT by being scum?In post 2365, ooba wrote:Scum virgin = Godfather role so there's an elegance to that design.
Now that I type it out - it sounds crazy.
^P-edit: Your theory definitely sounds more plausible but there's a certain inelegance to the virgin having a QT if you ask me.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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But wouldn't all neighborizers already be guilty to Mala? Or by Pseudo-godfather, do you mean that all three are millers by default so not affected by cop results?In post 2373, Mirari wrote:If anything the Virgin is a goon and the neighborizer is a pseudo-godfather. That was my take on the setup.
And isn't this "pseudo-godfather" bit in hindsight - I mean think of a situation without any prior claims when Mala had targeted scum X on night 2 claims "X has a QT" on D3. X will now have to convince people he actually is a neighbourizer. To top if off, he might have been counterclaimed by any of the other two NEIs here.
Overall, "you're immune to being neighborized AND you don't show up as having a QT" seems to be the most possible theory for now. (That is - assuming the 3 virgin thing is still right)-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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1) Yes. Grim-scum wouldn't link his fate to scumbuddy Matt so early. I can see Grim-scum linking to Matt-town.In post 2378, Wisdom wrote:Grim claimed Virgin to give Matt's neighborizer claim more strength. I doubt this would happen if they are both scum. Agree?
The other Virgins have not claimed despite Grim encouraging them to do so if they exist (1924). Would a scum Virgin claim or not seeing a Town Virgin claiming?
2) That's surprising.
Point towards: (Speculation) Given that I'm suspicious of fitz as scum and fitz NEI claimed after the other two - I think scum virgin would have claimed.
Point Against: However, Quick ISO however reveals that fitz claimed way back in #1791. Maybe scum virgin figured out the one scum in three rule for NEIs and VIR and decided it's better not to claim?
Let's give it some time for others to read this again (maybe they missed 1924). But Grim looks much better if a second person claims but we do not get a third.-
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