Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[ooba]

[ooba]

Spoiler: Post 1

I take it you have a posting restriction?

[ooba]

I can't tell if that is a yes or a

no

the red x is confusing but since you are still posting in images I am still guessing you do unless you are trolling me and then I will hunt you down and...I will think of something.

[ooba]

Spoiler: Post 2

[ooba]

could you mebbe post another picture

Spoiler: Another picture

Vote: ArcAngel

[ooba]

Spoiler: Post 3

[ooba]

I like words better than pictures, obviously I'm in the minority there.

Spoiler: Post 3.5

[ooba]

Spoiler: Post 3.9

I'll assume that's 'heresy' although now that I'm on my tablet I'll add that it's annoying not to be able to see the whole pic in the thread too.

I actually posted the images in spoiler tags because it would be irritating to have them load up every time you browse from a mobile device and need to scroll through them.

[ooba]

^^ It's also more exhausting than I reckoned it would be - hence the shift in the post above yours

[ooba]

Let's see - I don't have any reads that scream scum yet

Town

Wisdom - General posting and anybody who posts what I'm thinking always get's town points"Matt, why do you think Arc and Nacho are town?"
Mirari - Town. We're good at reading each other and play\posting looks very town.
Whiskers - Vibe - seems town.

Neutral+

MattP - Too quick to add Nacho, Arc as town but looks earnest in trying to get shos lynched

Neutral

Nachomamma8
Malakittens
penguin_alien
Desperado
Grimgroove - Unlikely to be scum with shos, I think
shos - I hated that he did a pbpA for 12 pages since it's something I like to do as scum - but other than that - have nothing oh him

Neutral-

ArcAngel9 - Needs to post. Also too many people have written her off as town. (without there being much to back it up)

pirate mollie
- Mollie's tone seems off - I have a town baseline and this is not it. But that's based off one game and Mala apparently has more experience on mollie's game so disregarding my meta knowledge for now
- I also didnt like the whiskers vote

[ooba]

Wisdom can't understand and has to dip his fingers into every post MattP makes,

And he is now even using misreps to make conclusions. This is done by scum, every time.

Whoa, whoa, I thought we could only use meta, man. Only meta tells are effective in scumhunting. It is the

major scumhunting tool!

A lot of (needless) hostility in this post and the one above. I can understand if you thought he was scum (some people get angry and are rude at scum suspects) - but this looks like you're trying to undermine\ridicule Wisdom.

Do you guys have a playing history?

[ooba]

A lot of (needless) hostility in this post and the one above.

By above - I meant Whisker's post with the spoilers.

[ooba]

@ooba
No, first game with him. And I do think he is scum.

I wanted to check because I can also attribute that behaviour to bad blood from previous games.

Since it's not - I do believe we have something here.

Unvote. Vote: Whiskers

If Whiskers is scum, I'd wager that the person who confused Wisdom and Whiskers isn't scum with Whiskers.

[ooba]

Umm Des?

And I can't say that makes you scum. But I can say that no other players in the game have the relationship that you have. It's really great that you trust each other so much. You must be so happy together.

[ooba]

Vote: Arc Angel

Is posting on other parts of the site - needs to start playing the game.

pedit: Lol @Nacho - I thought you were going to say something like that. Is the chair image something that mollie does often?

[ooba]

Is the chair image something that mollie does often?

Nacho?

[ooba]

Yeah, it's like her signature move.

Yeah I saw it earlier and it strengthened the TR I had on her.

I looked at that and got paranoid because she whipped it out after I mentioned that her play this game felt off-tone to the last.

[ooba]

- Call me a newb, but I had the same reaction after Whisker's posts to mollie - i.e. that whisker's has read\played with mollie before.
That entire exchange was very town from mollie. If she's so good as to manufacture posts like that as scum, then power to her. I am not for lynching her anymore on D1.
- Whiskers - call it vibe. I don't see scum would choosing to open on D1 with a bunch of caustic posts directed at everyone. I actually see a scumhunting method behind the madness.

I didn't like the Mala towntell on mollie for the chair. I understand the reasoning but it also gives me vibes of scum calling a townie town too easily.

That makes four people I won't lynch today: (Can I also take this time to say Nacho-Arc still looks good)
shos
Malakittens

Wisdom

Nachomamma8
ArcAngel9*
penguin_alien
Desperado

pirate mollie

Whiskers

MattP
Grimgroove

Mirari

[ooba]

*grits teeth*

doesn't the fact that he is treating you as town (if you are indeed town) worry you?

Why should this be worrying?

Also worth noting that mollie's account slips have nearly reached Arc's total posts this game.

[ooba]

Penguin scum flip would mean Mala town. Plus I never liked the fact that Nacho was on the shos wagon. Lets see where this leads..

Vote: Penguin

[ooba]

Matt, your penguin read\lynch push seems disingenuous

First off the case itself seemed pretty overblown but I can live with that:

There's no way you don't see the arguments. You would at WORST understand our point of view but disagree with it. Your stance is so ridiculously unbelievable I am pretty certain that you're just making it up.

Also, you just simultaneously said you don't understand the case on shos and that you haven't followed the game.

VOTE: Penguin_Alien

At

best

I believe you're scum and WKing Shos-town. More likely is that Shos is your buddy and you're trying to shift focus elsewhere while not strongly committing to a Shos townread (I don't see what other's see but I'm also not really following). You also know I just dropped my PM townread and now you're pushing her softly.

Pirate Mollie is town more so than anyone if Penguin flips scum. Shos is probably scum as well.

You reinforce here that Penguin is a good lynch

I think it makes a lot of sense to just lynch Penguin here over Mollie or Shos

But then it changes to track to "let's pressurise penguin to contribute"

How does that make sense?

At least Pirate and Shos give a shit? Penguin is scummy and active lurking, Shos is scummy but providing content, Pirate Mollie is being her typical self that she said she wouldn't be but then slipped into anyway. Relationally Penguin is treating other people bizarrely (i.e. her soft push of Pirate and soft defense of Shos), and Shos has outgrown his Grim buddying years to a respectable degree.

Plus, if we're three days into a game and we have a 2 week deadline and there's not much at this point to get out of Shos from pressure because believe me we've seen it all at the

very least

one can appreciate some Penguin pressure at this point.

Continuing on to the "we can get him to contribute" - your tone has totally changed from the previous let's lynch penguin stance:

I don't know, I think she might be town, especially if mollie isn't.

She said she will post today, let's see.

Penguin either:

a) Doesn't care at all about this game
b) Is scum

I don't like when people get away with "a" for a prolonged period of time. The great thing about it is that we can correct it and immediately get an answer on "b". You can't correct Mollie's attitude as is obvious by this point. You can't correct Whisker's insufferable ability to spoil the fun of a forum game for the majority of the player list and incite destructive discussion. You can't make Shos stop being frenetic. We

can

possibly, hopefully, get Penguin to get invested in the game.

And when the penguin lynch picks up steam with both me and wisdom voting him, you're suddenly paranoid about wisdom?

[ooba]

This is a good game, btw. Scum are playing well, really every player sans Penguin is doing a damn good job of appearing town. Simultaneously, town are for the most part remaining calm and letting things take as much time as they need rather than falling apart. I like this. Nice first game back.

This is what I was thinking yesterday as well. I'll add Matt to the not lynching pile for D1 as well - not in the same tier as the other four reads though. (Wis, Mirari, Whis, mollie) - not even comfortable calling him "town" yet - just don't want to lynch D1.

Also on the quoted above, one scum may not be playing at all (Arc) - She should post soon.

I feel a bit less paranoid on Nacho solely due to the people on his wagon (ArcAngel9, shos, Grimgroove).

Which leaves

shos
Malakittens
ArcAngel9*
penguin_alien
Desperado
Grimgroove

[ooba]

@Wisdom:"ooba, why do you not like Grimgroove?"

There's nothing that made me go "that's town"

@Mala: I want to hear more on Ooba and Mirari. Ooba I want to hear your thoughts on Mirari saying that he can read you well because you both live together.

I cannot comment about online play because like Mirari mentioned - this is our first game together. However, we have played IRL before. However, there are three things that make me feel better about Mirari:
- As scum in our IRL games, Mirari always has the tendency to attack me. Usually lines like "He is scum" with no particular reasoning.
- I wouldn't call it 'playing as a team exactly' but when we play IRL, we tend to refine our reads by discussing it interacting with each other. Mirari initially commenting on my not posting ("Where's my beloved ooba?") plus trying to get me to change my vote from Arc ("Ooba, hun, you should probably change your vote.") fits with her town profile.

Mirari reads me better than the average player. But I was initially paranoid about the sheer number of "ooba is town" at the start. But on reflection, there are signs to her town meta than scum(see above) and overall, feels strong town to me.

@Nacho: Ooba posting remains low energy which makes me sad.

I always take a bit of time to build up - I get emoitionaly invested in a game over time. I'm hardly useless this game though.

@shos:ooba's post is plainly wrong imo. that's a bad post. it's just wrong and misrepful imo.

How exactly is it plainly wrong?

---

@Matt:
Does you technique account for length of actual games or total number of posts made by that player? I like the analysis but think (No. of times player posted scum)/(Total number of posts by player in game) would be a better metric to measure.

Shos's 1023 post was so overactive - just gave me bad vibes all around. But I'm trying to see if it falls into the "it's soo bad it cannot be scum" category and figure out possible partners based on reactions\voting if he's scum.

[ooba]

^*over-reactive

[ooba]

Love mollie's town list.

Also agree with Mirari's post - except add Nacho to the town pile too.

I think penguin is our best bet for hitting scum, shos being second best
VOTE: Penguin

[ooba]

matt, nacho, wis are town <------ don't touch them

I am still working out other things. ooba and that mirari girl are interesting and might be a strong town unit.

I lack conviction in my shos vote tbh

^ this post

[ooba]

This is my town block:
Wisdom
Mirari
pirate mollie
Whiskers
Nachomamma8

I like these people and they shouldn't be lynched (Neutral +):
MattP
Malakittens

Out of
havingfitz ArcAngel9**
penguin_alien
Desperado
shos
Grimgroove

I really feel that penguin is the best lynch candidate.

[ooba]

Matt, why did you claim?

[ooba]

Not interested in mass claiming - sorry.

You cannot accurately predict downsides to the flavor claim - scum having a deathnote, scum role blocker who can block if he names the character, scum getting extra powers if they kill particular roles (my previous game had that for killing Poseidon and Zeus - they had tokens that gave special powers).

Not to mention, if it's smart scum, they can deduce possible roles based on flavor\what's already claimed and can kill off the more powerful roles.

[ooba]

2-shot dead talker
Each night you can target a dead player. The following night onwards, you can talk to that player.

[ooba]

Good guess, but no.

I don't think it's as easy as you do Wisdom.

It would be easier since scum have an idea of their own roles plus power levels and can work backwords to guess at town power levels and fill out other possible roles.

[ooba]

So people are actually entertaining the idea of there being two town-neighborizers in this game? Have you all gone insane?

Instead of trying to play outguess the mod, I'd like to consider motivations:

- Matt claimed with no impetus at all. I'd like that cleared up. (esp. since it had nothing to do with Mala's lynch or his read on her).
But I find this behaviour very strange for scum - the only possible scum angle to it could be Wisdom's "Matt's trying to distract us" reasoning (which I guess to a certain extent has worked since we're now talking claims and not reads\lynches)

- Whisker's looks much better since the claim came second. Scum wouldn't willingly get into one of those double claim situations.

It also helps that my read on both of them was the town side of neutral.

[ooba]

It's not strange.
This is how it is:
MattP is a neighborizer scum.

When he sees this role, claiming "neighborizer" is normally a good strategy to get the heat off of you for a while.

It's generally a pro-town role earning you an e asy townread, it's weak enough in order for people not to freak out over an early claim.

He didn't take into account there's also a neighborizer town, in this case Whiskers.

There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.

Honestly, there was no danger of Matt getting lynched today. Most people thought he was scum with Mala and wanted to lynch Mala first. Unless the Matt-Mala pairing is really true and this was a smoke screen to distract, Matt scum should have read the situation easily and wouldn't have done this.

[ooba]

There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.

Why?
Why can't there be two of every animal?
I just want to point out that, I'm the "other neighborizer," and I'm the "unanimous townread." So maybe it should add some weight that I'm the one saying this?

My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?

I should point out here that quoted statement was Grim's - not mine.

[ooba]

My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?

Not alignment indicative - flavor wise this is pretty strong - esp. the day\night dual nature.

Also - if possible, I would like the neighbourizers to consider me when neighbourizing. It should be beneficial.

[ooba]

I forgot he did. Now I'm confused flavor wise because I expected him to be Artemis....

Apollo - Associated with the Sun - Day Neighbourizer
Artemis - Associated with the Moon - Night Neighbourizer
seemed to make flavor-sense and fit.

Hephaestus, 2-shot neighborizer

[ooba]

Whiskers - what is your flavor?

[ooba]

Yeah, maybe. Will you be more talkative if I neighborize you than you have been in the thread? Because if not, it'd really be a waste, wouldn't it?
Also, since I'm a Dayborizer, would it really be useful to you?

I would say that if you have your day-shot still left today, you should use it on me now.

^P-edit: Lol. Does your neighbourizing power flavor mention the "Sun" by any chance?

[ooba]

Ooba (and wisdom) I think you need to look at Matt as a player and see if this fits into his town profile. The claim should give you sole hints as to what I mean.

I haven't played with Matt before and I'm really not great at meta analysis.

[ooba]

@ mod - due to changes IRL circumstances I request to be replaced. sorry guys.

Bye mollie.

---

I'm back and reading - upto fitz's claim - I like this setup already

[ooba]

Regarding the setup:

- Wisdom's theory on Male neighbourizers forming 'lover' pairs seem bang on - it also makes me feel better about the Haep being N claim
- There necessarily does not have to be 1 scum amongst the Ns. Here's what I think:
-- I do not think any of them {Ns - Whis, Matt, fitz + QTCop - Mala + Virgin - Grim} are lying about their role
-- Amongst the Ns - fitz has the biggest probability of being scum. Him not claiming would look worse later and claiming now puts additional pressure on the Matt wagon.
Overall: This list {Whis, Matt, fitz, Mala, Grim} has at least 4 town IMO.

Over the last twenty pages:

Nacho: I just completed a scum game with Nacho. Nacho not posting is always a warning sign. But his iPad excuse + level of conviction isn't something I would expect from scum Nacho. Not calling town - but not lynching.
Grim: I liked Grim's couple of posts. (Not the '1 of them have to be scum', but the posts before that)
shos: I hate the 'terribad crumb is bad' and 'useless role' theories to lynch Mala. Still not sure if he's scum though.
Overall:
Removing Town (Wisdom, Mirari, Whiskers, Mollie) & the Neutral+ (Matt, Mala, Nacho, Grim) - it narrows down my lynch candidates to:
Fitz
shos
Desp
Peng

---

Wisdom - you're wrong on Mirari. I can't see this as her scum game at all.

[ooba]

No, ooba, you are wrong. And not just on Mirari. Your lynchpool is 4 townies.

And here I was - trying to see if I can find associations between those players. I know if I've placed one scum at the Town or Neutral+ where they don't belong - but I'd be shocked if the list {shos, Des, fitz, Peng} did not contain 2 scum.

---

Penguin is quick to call both the AA9\fitz slots town - both of which are flimsy reasons:

AA9 is saying all the town-AA9 things, but in a game like this where she knows a decent number of people, I'd expect the interactive part of her style to be more front-and-center. Heaven knows I get being behind, but it's a drastic falloff. On the other hand, her defensiveness about it is townish, so I'd let it slide pending further info.

havingfitz can be town for his answer to Mala's questioning his read on her; no frantic looking for specifics to back him up, just the town replacement attitude of 'let me get a feel for what's going on, make gut reads, and proceed from there.'

[ooba]

This is the list that contains most (if not all) scum: {

Mirari

, mollie, Nacho, Matt}.
You have 2 of these in your townpile and two in your null. You need to reconsider.

Why are you townreading mollie?

The emotional thing\reaction to whiskers.

That said - mollie's probably the least recent person to have done something that had a good vibe of all those 8.

[ooba]

Why are you townreading her for that?

It didnt look fake-able. Scum mollie wouldn't have reacted like that.

[ooba]

I'd be much happier with this role PM case if fitz had claimed the "messenger god" before you asked him for it. For what it's worth, my role ability also has "flavor reasoning".

[ooba]

Ooba was a slit i considered sorta switzerland.

What did you just call me??

[ooba]

Am I just scum with an erection for danger? Do I merely want a brush with death? To play necksies with the business end of a noose?

Sounds like B-movie taglines...

I was checking out VCs and penguin hasn't moved\changed her vote from Mirari all throughout the day. wow.

[ooba]

Your point being?

That the informational content of any voting was very low.

Went through ISO - Penguins most probable team mate is fitz as mentioned before. This early question is particularly telling as it tries to link me to AA9:

ooba, where's the AA9 vote coming from?
I assumed he found either Whiskers or Nacho also scummy in context.

GG is another possibility just based on the reads list + interactions with others (so I can knock em off).

---

I'm actually starting to get cold feet about Peng being scum

So in the meantime

UNVOTE: Peng

Why exactly?

[ooba]

That scum team also coincides with what I think about the setup... Let me think about this...

[ooba]

^Wisdom: It helps me scum hunt better to think in terms of partners even before flips. That way, even if I'm wrong, helps me refocus better than lone scum\town reads.

^GG: Not the most refined analysis but its a combination of two theories. I'll explain the first one now because I'd still like to keep the second one to myself. The

bucket theory

states that scum are most likely to put scum partners in different buckets in a big read list.

So if I look at penguin and fitz, the other one could be bucket one or three. The only possibility in three is probably mollie because I have strong reads on {Mirari, Mala}, but penguins early comment on mollie doesn't look like partners so eliminating that.
Bucket 1:
- shos was defended too heavily for my liking to be a partner
- I have a big town read on Wisdom
- So it boiled down to Whiskers and you but eventually settled on you because Whiskers + fitz would make it two neighbourizer scum

Town:
shos
GG
Whiskers
Wisdom

Town enough I would disagree with their lynch:

AA9

Desperado
MattP
Nacho
ooba

Scum enough that I wouldn't condemn their lynch:
Mirari
Mala
mollie

I checked after I posted - you also have fitz and peng in different buckets!

[ooba]

Ooba was a slit i considered sorta switzerland.

What did you just call me??

oh you know just what I said you dirty little slot

Lol. Shos is town because he's funny!

[ooba]

That scum team also coincides with what I think about the setup... Let me think about this...

Anyway, as I was saying... This is what the setup is:

3 x Neighbourizers
- Apollo
- Haep
- Hermes

3 x Virgins (Cannot be Neighbourzied)
- Artemis
- Athena
- Hestia

1 x QT Cop
- Aphrodite

- Rest (Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera, Demeter, Ares)

Anyway the entire game seems to be designed on QT shenanigans so Mala being scum is out of the question. What I meant by my previous scum team fitting the setup theory is that I expect one scum to be in the Neighbourizers (fitz), one in the virgins (Grim) and one in the rest (Peng).

[ooba]

why do you think there would be a scum virgin? dunno why it doesn't sit well on me.
and three virgins is hard to believe as well; the gods are definitely not virgins, and we only have one virgin claim, so that's odd.

Scum virgin = Godfather role so there's an elegance to that design.

All three I mentioned are virgins
http://camphalfblood.wikia.com/wiki/Virgin_Goddesses
Actually, we have two virgin claims if you're reading between the lines. (Also the inspiration for the theory)

^P-edit: Additionally, ooba, have you noticed that there are only 12 "big named" gods?
Ya I noticed - Hestia is the other olympian in the game though - Also fits with the theory.

[ooba]

Why? Because he's acting as if his scumread flipped scum? How is that genuine when he doesn't know if penguin will even flip scum?

I don't but you can make it happen by voting her!

[ooba]

I think we should have the other Virgins claim, if they exist, to confirm your theory. It's sounding very accurate right now.

Makes sense - Also like that you're one step ahead of me here.

[ooba]

Scum virgin = Godfather role so there's an elegance to that design.

Wait, even if they're immune to being neighborized, don't they still have a QT by being scum?

Well, I was actually thinking about that yesterday. We're all assuming that scum share a QT or all of them do. I was thinking of a setup where the scum virgin godfather knows his partners, but is not part of the QT and controls the kill till he dies\is lynched. The other two scum share a QT and get kill control if the godfather is out of the game.

Now that I type it out - it sounds crazy.

^P-edit: Your theory definitely sounds more plausible but there's a certain inelegance to the virgin having a QT if you ask me.

[ooba]

If anything the Virgin is a goon and the neighborizer is a pseudo-godfather. That was my take on the setup.

But wouldn't all neighborizers already be guilty to Mala? Or by Pseudo-godfather, do you mean that all three are millers by default so not affected by cop results?

And isn't this "pseudo-godfather" bit in hindsight - I mean think of a situation without any prior claims when Mala had targeted scum X on night 2 claims "X has a QT" on D3. X will now have to convince people he actually is a neighbourizer. To top if off, he might have been counterclaimed by any of the other two NEIs here.

Overall, "you're immune to being neighborized AND you don't show up as having a QT" seems to be the most possible theory for now. (That is - assuming the 3 virgin thing is still right)

[ooba]

Grim claimed Virgin to give Matt's neighborizer claim more strength. I doubt this would happen if they are both scum. Agree?

The other Virgins have not claimed despite Grim encouraging them to do so if they exist (1924). Would a scum Virgin claim or not seeing a Town Virgin claiming?

1) Yes. Grim-scum wouldn't link his fate to scumbuddy Matt so early. I can see Grim-scum linking to Matt-town.

2) That's surprising.

Point towards: (Speculation) Given that I'm suspicious of fitz as scum and fitz NEI claimed after the other two - I think scum virgin would have claimed.

Point Against: However, Quick ISO however reveals that fitz claimed way back in #1791. Maybe scum virgin figured out the one scum in three rule for NEIs and VIR and decided it's better not to claim?

Let's give it some time for others to read this again (maybe they missed 1924). But Grim looks much better if a second person claims but we do not get a third.

[ooba]

There might be simpler explanation as far as reasons for not claiming at that time go - but I don't want to answer for anyone else.

Worth bolding:

If your ability is a "virgin" (i.e. cannot be neighbhourized) in this game, please claim

[ooba]

ika, is your role a virgin? Stop ducking the question.

[ooba]

That is surprising....

Wisdom your thoughts on ika not claiming virgin?

[ooba]

Oh well.. Anyway about the lynch..

Will oppose vehemently: Mirari, Wisdom
Will not vote for: Matt, Mala, show
Not particularly keen on: Whiskers, Nacho, ika (for mollie play - not ikas)
The town read I feel most unsure about is Whiskers but still not worth lynching when we have other\better candidates.

But am still happy with my scum team call out of {Grim, fitz, Penguin} and will switch votes to any of them if required. I would also lynch Desp but won't be as happy with that as any of the other three.

[ooba]

Both Grim and fitz are on ika? Good D1 mislynch if I ever saw one.

[ooba]

@Fitz, Grim
I find strong town reads I can rally behind, PoE on the list and figure out patterns between the rest.
I've highlighted both your links to penguin.
More recently, I found both your jumps onto ika to be pretty weak.

@Wisdom:
Would you be willing to rally behind any of the Grim or penguin lynches? (I'm leaving fitz out of this because I feel more certain about these two right now)

[ooba]

penguin maybe,

Grim absolutely not.

Even better since penguin's my top scum-suspect.

[ooba]

@ooba
I'd prefer Nacho, maybe even Desp, over penguin right now. What do you think about them?

I like Nacho - I'd like to think I can read Nacho after our recent scum game and he seems more honest here (as opposed to posturing).

Desp was like "I'm Hades - guess my power!" - but nothing apart from that that's made me think he's town so far. I can only read Desp after flips. He's town if ika flips scum for example.

[ooba]

@ooba
I'd prefer Nacho, maybe even Desp, over penguin right now. What do you think about them?

I like Nacho - I'd like to think I can read Nacho after our recent scum game and he seems more honest here (as opposed to posturing).

Desp was like "I'm Hades - guess my power!" - but nothing apart from that that's made me think he's town so far. I can only read Desp after flips. He's town if ika flips scum for example.

Why do people have you as town, ooba?
Like, even if you

are

town, why are people reading you as it? You hardly ever post, for instance.

I ask 'cause the bolded here doesn't make sense to me. That's not something town(Desp) would do. It would be anti-town. But you're like, "Yeah! that shit right there! Super town! So great!" supporting it. I could see scum(ooba) doing that. But why would a townie do it?

Regarding posting, I'm always a low frequency D1 poster. As town, the frequency increases on successive days but as scum - it remains constant or even decreases.

We have a differing opinion on the second. Most people say anti-town actions are bad are more likely to come from scum. I view anti-town actions by their payoffs i.e. does scum really gain anything from that action as opposed to the increased pressure\spotlight it puts on them? For example, fake guilties get them a mislynch and I'd lynch liars on spot. On the other hand,
- Matt's unannounced claim: Really had no scum motivation. The only theory that holds substance is that he early claimed to give Mala's eventual later claim more credibility. But a weak way of going about it since it puts the spotlight on him for claiming early. The payoff isn't worth it.
- Similarly on Desp's "Guess my power": You say that's anti town because it leads us into a situation where everyone starts claiming and guessing powers. Most towns won't be led down that path by something so simple. We tend to overestimate scum fishing around for roles and they would never do it that obviously.

[ooba]

I'd see someone in the Mafia QT filling Titus in on the plan of 'neighbourize mala or none at all' plan - plus earlier read of MattP=town does nothing to change that read

Regarding the 'Let's lynch neighbours' plan - I think it's a bad idea. Mod's already shown one red herring by dropping a virgin type association and not making Hestia fit the mould - so playing to mod-outguessing of 'one must be scum' might put us in trouble. I'm still wary of fitz but I can see all three of them being town. I'd rather focus on the others segment. [Unless Elyse went the other way and made two neighbourizers scum but I'll say unlikely and pass it on]

2756 sounds extremely harsh from Mala. -> As in harsh to the level where it feels fabricated and not true emotions.

"I am not an alt of mollie. I am anohter being ientirely. i will admit though tit and i are somewhat similar though in level and abaility. i am still wanting to know what you want from knowing where i origonate. i can tell you post game but untill you give me good reasoning i have no intention of doing it for it is irrelivent. i will igve youthis, my home site username and this site usernames are the same." -> another being or not, the spelling mistakes in this post is also faked. This isn't as suspicious as the above one from mala.

Vote: Mala

[ooba]

I should add that Whisker's flipping an information role - 'watcher' makes it more unlikely that Mala is town.

[ooba]

Hestia with the ascetic modifier however does fit as a soft-push for a virgin. If you can't be targeted by any actions other than the NK you can't have a neighborizer shot go through.

Wow - I have no idea how this slipped past me.

I saw Hestia and equated that as watcher and said "ok so not everything revolving around QTs then" and proceeded to reanalyze.

[ooba]

Unvote

I was also think about the Aesthetic part of the flip, and I believe in ooba's three virgin theory more than I did before, just implemented in a different way... Three people who are immune to neighborization in different ways: one by being Aesthetic, one by being a Virgin,

and one by being a commuter

, perhaps? I don't believe the setup is as easy as one scum in the virgins, one scum in neighborizers, and one scum in the others, although that would be elegant, but I believe there is a possibility of it and now am doubly looking forward to the grim groove slot investigation.

I don't think this is the case but I'll keep my thoughts to myself here.

[ooba]

The watcher flip makes the QT cop claim a bit strange, but I think that ignoring the sheer number of QTs in this game and the weird mechanic of them would be a mistake. I don't really see why else Elyse would make this the case (unless she was looking to center the game around a role such as QT cop), so I don't think watcher flip is enough to make that a scum claim quite yet. I mean, even if Mala knew about the neighborhoods beforehand, the claim would still be creative as hell and a pretty impressive thing to pull off, don't you think?

But I disagree with this. Mala probably did not lie about the role - and Elyse designed this around QTs and QT cop - yes but no reason to not have made the QT cop scum. Let me think about this a bit more.