Mini 1500:Narnia- The Lion,the Witch,and the Wardrobe Mafia

[smargaret]

VOTE: Honig

You

don't

want us out of RVS? Also, Godwin.

Broken Aquarium, care to explain why you're voting someone instead of just voting?

nthing the request for avatars.

[smargaret]

Godwin's Law.

Honig, is it possible to sit any more firmly on that fence re Peacebringer? We're on page 3 of day 1 - there is no way we have a consensus lynch at this point, and now who's looking to end the day? And however we get out of RVS, we're out of it now. How is that a bad thing?

Peacebringer isn't striking me as scummy so much as uncommitted, that he's showing up but not really making even the barest of efforts. Anti town != scummy.

Broken Aquarium is fluffposting (see posts 42 and 43). And yeah, I meant explain the logic behind your votes. Actually, this applies to many people at this point, which does not make me happy.

@ mod - isn't Shane still voting mozamis?

>>this is fixed<<

[smargaret]

It disturbs me that you would make a serious vote that early on in the game let alone in the RVS

, particulalry while not explaining why a vote that leaves a player on L-5 is scummy and then have to explain your actions so thoroughly.
Also I don't like your vote on JKLM.
Mnemonic answer mah question plzzzzz.

I see the bolded as wanting to stay in RVS. What is wrong with serious votes early?

Honig, you're going to fos (or whatever) someone you see as null? And you don't see the scumminess in this post:

I don't know the statistics on flips on people who choose to play like dicks like Peace here but regardless I'd like to go for the slightly more subtler scummy players and mozamis is currently leading in that category IMO.
Still if peace is the consensus lynch of the day I have no problem hammering him/voting him if other wagons clearly won't work and if he continues to play like posts 51 and 52.
Skelda out of interest, did that argument work when you were scum i.e. was it effective? Also what breed of goat is that?

I mean, there is a point to lynching VIs/trolls/lurkers/people who aren't actually going to play the game on day 1, but the whole I'll vote him but not really thing - take a stance, call him out on not actually playing - the wording here just screams scum at me, especially considering how early it is on day 1 (and nothing in that post suggests that you're looking ahead to the end of the day). You don't know what is going to come up during the course of the day, so given how remarkably little information there is, it just seems like any plans are going to have to change, so why make them now instead of seeing what happens?

Really, though, Honig, you're awfully upset about one person in a 13 player game finding two early posts scummy - why are you so defensive, so concerned about my suspicion of you? I want out of RVS early, so I poke at people - and you just completely melted down, which is really interesting considering how little pressure you were under, and that in and of itself is scummier than anything else that I voted you for.

I pointed out BA's fluffposting because I saw it, and I wanted other people to be aware of it. What's wrong with that?

These posts:

Nice. So 3 votes on me for no reason. and 4 votes on peacebringer. Also because of his playstyle.

I also like how Skelda just randomly jumps on the peacebringer wagon. RVS much?

Interesting. Someone is already at L-1.

are problematic. Note that, for the first one, mnemonic's vote was still on project matt - which he essentially admitted was a RVS vote - yet he's expressing suspicion of Skelda. Why leave an RVS vote in place when there is actual content, about which you are expressing an opinion, to base votes on?

@Project Matt I'm going to call you out through and ask why did you Vote Mozamis with out listing any reasons. I would actually like to hear some insight on how the game is going.

I'm not one that finds it necessary to supply large amounts of content at the beginning of the game as most of it is guesswork. This is why my first few posts have just been observations. I'll provide actual analysis soon since we're moving out of that stage.

Specifically, I very much disliked his attack on PeaceBringer and his attacks looked not like excited town but opportunistic scum.

Unvote

There is absolutely no way that a lynch is going through or a claim is being made yet.

Matt, if nobody supplies content at the beginning of the game, then where does the content come from?

I'm actually not seeing the mozamis suspicion. I see a failed joke and some vote hopping, but I really don't think that's a reliable tell this close to the beginning of the game, where we're just starting to see things coming out.

Can we drop the meta-that-may-not-be-discussed? Meta generally sucks, flirting with the edge of discussing ongoing games also sucks, doing so in an attempt to avoid saying anything for real keeps games from going anywhere.

[smargaret]

Finally. It took like three tries to post that because of all the ninjas.

[smargaret]

Honig, the issue is that defending yourself shows that you are overly concerned about people thinking you're scum. You aren't a major wagon, in fact I think I'm the only person to have expressed any suspicion of you. *Why are you so worried?* If you're town, and you get mislynched, you can still win the game. If you're scum, it's a lot harder. Thus, scum tends to overreact more to early suspicion, which is why I find poking at someone and trying to get a reaction to be an effective way to scumhunt.

Plus, defending yourself only does so much. In general, you aren't going to persuade the person you're defending yourself against; you're looking to sway people who might be on the fence.

As far as mozamis goes, there wasn't a whole lot to defend against - many of the votes were bandwagony, and I want to look closer at that tomorrow because I overdid it today and desperately need to head for bed or I'd do it tonight - and the wagon built so quickly that there wasn't that much time.

Matt, I was trying to say that if you think it's pointless to provide content at the beginning and everyone else playing does too, how is the game ever going to start. As in, yeah, it's guesswork and a lot of the arguments are flimsy/reaching/wouldn't fly on day 3, but you still have to make the arguments to get scumhunting going. You did basically admit, though, to active lurking.

[smargaret]

gah, wrong forum and the asterisks don't do anything here. That was supposed to be italics.

[smargaret]

@Mozamis He still provided a better reason than you through. But I will acknowledge that you gave a reason. Still your plays so far have been a bit iffy.

@Project Matt I'm going to call you out through and ask why did you Vote Mozamis with out listing any reasons. I would actually like to hear some insight on how the game is going.

This is interesting, considering you did much the same thing in voting Mozamis without listing a reason.

[smargaret]

AlienBRO - I'm not townreading Honig. Not at all.

Also, mozamis's list of reads looks like an activity/content ranking, which is weird considering scum have a pretty solid motive to speak up and direct the game or at least not be perceived as lurkers. I mean, I'm not saying it isn't worth looking at the people who aren't doing anything, but it's definitely not the only way or even the best way to find scum.

[smargaret]

Ah, I had some pronoun confusion and thought Skelda was the he in the second paragraph.

[smargaret]

Mnemonic - Um, no. Your vote does no good at all in the "not voting" spot. At the very least you can say who said scummier reads are.

Mnemonic is rapidly moving up my scumlist.

[smargaret]

Honig, it's not just that you defended yourself, but also the vehemence of the defense.

[smargaret]

It's worth noting that generally scum are the ones worried that people believe that they're town. /honigscum

Skelda, do you still thnk pressure votes are the best use of your vote? What is your stance on mnemonic? On Honig? Any other scumreads out there?

If people would post more there would be more to talk about.

[smargaret]

Moz

do you still think I'm town

and if so why?

Just gonna leave that here. Also, it's a game. Calm down.

Hermy: Elaborate, please. What people voting Skelda do you find scummy, and why?

[smargaret]

Skelda, you've got all these reads - wanna lay down a vote?

also, she, not he.

[smargaret]

Vote: Hermy

I'll explain this tomorrow. Hang tight!

Waiting.

[smargaret]

In fact, Matt hasn't taken a firm stance all game, and this isn't the first vote that he's delayed explaining.

FOS: Matt

[smargaret]

Initial reads:

Mozamis is town

mildly

. I don't think that his content has been exactly good so far, but he picked up on similar tells (Skelda being very friendly) and he seems to be playing to appease himself and not other players which seems relatively devoid of the scum play I would expect.

mnemonicdevice is tentatively town. I like the fact that he refuses to join the other bandwagon in competition with him and some of his early posts rang off as town as well. The confessional nature of stuff like post 30feels like it has little scum motivation. His play has little substance but he seems excited as opposed to scum trying to fit in.

I've never played with PeaceBringer so to imply that I have a strong read on him would be wrong. I'd like to compare his previous meta in games as to get a read on him but through a very thin look his play looks town. I feel the same way about Broken Aquarium.

Yes. Peace is playing like peace normally plays.

I checked, it is.

UNVOTE: , VOTE: mozamis

Which games did you check?

At the moment, I don't have any strong scum reads but I expect that to change.

And this post isn't an example of

There is nothing wrong with not having a stance on any particular player but Hermy seems to intentionally open herself to any probable vote while also staying out of choosing a hard stance which looks like a scum essentially trying to lay back quietly. To her credit, after my vote she did townread Skelda so that read isn't strong anymore.

I'm not a fan of some of alienBRO's posting but it may be due to the fact that it is two people and they look extremely schizophrenic.

I actually don't have any strong stances right now at all, and given we've made approximately 3 pages in...a week, I don't know how you expect me to. That's bad.

You know, I've got strong stances. I'm voting Honig, and I'm pretty sure you're scum as well. I've also got some fairly strong town reads, although I'm not willing to share those (why tell scum who to target?). I have a problem with the idea that one townread erases fencesitting.

Hermy has spent a large portion of the game on v/la, which accounts for a fair bit of the non-posting. l don't have a strong read on her at this point; I'm reserving judgment until after she gets more active (or until I can read something besides v/la into her inactivity).

And you know how we make more than three pages of content in a week? People post and analyze and take stanes, and not just whine about how there's nothing to talk about. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[smargaret]

@Project Matt I'm going to call you out through and ask why did you Vote Mozamis with out listing any reasons. I would actually like to hear some insight on how the game is going.

I'm not one that finds it necessary to supply large amounts of content at the beginning of the game as most of it is guesswork. This is why my first few posts have just been observations. I'll provide actual analysis soon since we're moving out of that stage.

Specifically, I very much disliked his attack on PeaceBringer and his attacks looked not like excited town but opportunistic scum.

Unvote

There is absolutely no way that a lynch is going through or a claim is being made yet.

i'm pretty much prod dodging since given this games snail pace i have little to add

In fact, Matt hasn't taken a firm stance all game, and this isn't the first vote that he's delayed explaining.

FOS: Matt

Well, I actually had no intention of explaining my first vote unless asked and I more so wanted to see Hermy's reaction to pressure but it was non-existent. I will admit to you that I'm slacking.

The vote basically stemmed from this post. There is nothing wrong with not having a stance on any particular player but Hermy seems to intentionally open herself to any probable vote while also staying out of choosing a hard stance which looks like a scum essentially trying to lay back quietly. To her credit, after my vote she did townread Skelda so that read isn't strong anymore.

I'm not a fan of some of alienBRO's posting but it may be due to the fact that it is two people and they look extremely schizophrenic.

I actually don't have any strong stances right now at all, and given we've made approximately 3 pages in...a week, I don't know how you expect me to. That's bad.

We still have well over a week so yes, I'm taking my time. On that subject, Smargaret, how do you feel about Hermy?

I think these posts tell a very interesting story (bolding mine).

As far as why Honig is scum - he reacted completely out of proportion in response to one person's suspicion early on day 1. Scum has more of a reason to worry about being lynched than town does. Look at his language. He is furious and swearing about being suspected - and then when other people hop on the wagon, he goes silent.

@ mod - isn't honig due for a prod at this point?

. His entire play has been focused on not getting lynched as opposed to finding scum.

[smargaret]

prod dodge. Real life is screwing with me; hopefully I'll be able to actually post tomorrow.

[smargaret]

How are you saying my play is devoid of substance when I've given a read on JKLM? I realize it's not an encyclopedia but it's certainly more than you misrep me for in #377. Also did you just pull that alienBRO scumread out of your magic hat? You've hardly mentioned the kid.

You've been in the game for over 24 hours, you have four posts of which only two are relevant to the game, and one shaky read. Devoid, maybe not - but substance sure looks thin on the ground here.

I agree that mozamis's scumhunting looks more like the activity police.

[smargaret]

Mnemonic needs to nameclaim, right after he explains his reasoning for not name claiming initially.

I'm sheeping everyone who says that BA's unvote is scummy

No lynching until RachMarie posts reads, please.

[smargaret]

Also, after the next votecount (because I'm lost with all the voting tricks and don't want to hammer yet per my previous post), I will be voting mnemonic device.

[smargaret]

I don't understand most of the arguement between Gamr and Peace, they both have seperate play styles; So what. I really like a Broken aquarium lynch still. For reasons untold

Let's make those reasons told, please.

Also, I went through and counted (by hand, so there's a margin of error), and excluding mnemonic talking about how frequently he says interesting IRL, there are five "interestings" in his iso. That's hardly the sort of frequency you'd need for a tell, which is honestly (aha! I must be scum!) not the best way to scumhunt. I'll have to look back and see who started that line of argument, because it's bad logic.

I'm not thrilled with the nameclaim. Look at the wikipedia page for The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe - the character is listed as Giant Rumblebuffin.

@ mod - votecount please?

[smargaret]

actually, mnemonic claimed a rumblebuffin giant. disregard the thing about wikipedia. I've had a very long week.

[smargaret]

UNVOTE: mneumonic
VOTE: peacebringer

My arguement was meant to steer everyone towards Skelda, not towards Peace, I am confused.

I don't know how I missed this gem the first time around. After a reread of md's iso, with the flubbed claim, I'm confident to go to L-1.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: md

[smargaret]

Hermy pointing out the fake hammer was bad.

[smargaret]

I'll sheep that.

VOTE: Hermy

[smargaret]

moz - because I connected the dots. Also, Hermy didn't do hardly anything yesterday, and that deserves some pressure.

I'm happy with a RachMarie wagon, though.

[smargaret]

So Hermy has two strong reads, both of them town reads? Total?

Nice fencesitting there.

[smargaret]

Matt, you're not convincing anyone out of sheer vehemence. I think a Hermy lynch might require more explanation.

[smargaret]

And yeah, that would be why I sheeped. Obvious role-related information was obvious.

[smargaret]

I do still want RachMarie lynched, but that can wait for tomorrow.

[smargaret]

"because I connected the dots" was me trying to avoid saying I thought he had role-related information.

[smargaret]

Yeah. If Hermy were s miller, she'd know.

[smargaret]

a miller, drat it.

[smargaret]

Unless Hermy wants to claim miller (lol), I don't see any reason to.

[smargaret]

VOTE: RachMarie

Let's make this happen today.

[smargaret]

RachMarie, you joined the game on October 9. You went v/la on October 21. Today is October 25. The ONLY content you have provided is about mnemonic's claim.

Night 1 happened prior to your v/la. While I understand you've been having issues, the issues can only explain so much - you haven't even voted yet! Add to that the fact that Honig was scummy as heck, and barring results from Matt, you need to go today.

[smargaret]

This week, yes. And I'm sorry things have been so rough, because it does sound like you've had a heck of a week. However, you were in this game for two weeks prior to this week with no content and your predecessor was massively scummy.

You don't have to do full on isos of every player to respond to current game events, either.

[smargaret]

The thing is, scumMatt had no need to actually claim role-related info to implicate Hermy. That didn't read like a bus to me.

I'm still in favor of lynching RachMarie. The confusion over which nk was meant - Broken Aquarium JUST died. It's her first post of Day 3. It makes sense that regardless of alignment, an unspecified nk would be the most recent one. I see that confusion as null.

[smargaret]

Interesting how much resistance there is (read as lack of action) on a RachMarie wagon. And I know she's v/la again, but we still have almost no content and an OMGUS vote. Why aren't more people voting her?

[smargaret]

Who the fuck is the votestealer

My guess is Rach or her scumbuddy, given that that's where I've been pushing.

Also, nobody goes L-1 now.

[smargaret]

vla for massive asthma. wwill be oon and off for a bit depending how bad it is

[smargaret]

just out if the erm still not breathing well. screw asthma.

more votes on rachmarie, especiakky since she vanishes the minute the pressure is off. how are people not seeing this???

not liking mozamis either because if what kj oosted.

[smargaret]

you mean like rachmarie hasn't?

[smargaret]

Smargaret is town.

Nice to know.

RachMarie is actually a mild townread as well, believe it or not. She actually has been coasting but I'm seeing a lot of the pushes on her being scum-motivated and her frustration being somewhat town as well. Less sure read but it still stands.

But ... I've been pretty much the only person pushing - really pushing - a Rach/Honig wagon all gamd. And I'm town. so how are the oushes scum-motivated again?

[smargaret]

Rach is scum because Honig was superscum. Also OMGUS. And yeah, I've been tunnelly - because this spot has been scummy from day 1 and yet somehow even serious pushes fizzle out.

[smargaret]

I agree that was a townpost from kj. I'd rather see a mozamis lynch if nobody's willing to go for Rach.

town: matt, kj, skelda

scum: garmr (in particular for his posts around the hermy wagon and persistant defense of rach), mozamis, and Rach.

no idea what to think about jklm.

[smargaret]

That was much less towny than kj's post.

[smargaret]

Well I mean at this point JKLM is getting lynched. The only question now is if he wants to give us his reads instead of running around in circles wondering why there's rope around his neck.

I guess I should rephrase - given how much time is left until deadline, if I had a vote I'd be hammering.

[smargaret]

This also means that all the people who voted before whoever dies will be conftown. This is very, very good for town.

[smargaret]

VOTE: RachMarie

Garmr, why is that interesting?

[smargaret]

So I was supposed to be dead by now - I'm Edmund Pevensie, and I'm a freaking miller.

[smargaret]

I'm not answering anything until the massclaim is over, but I'll respond to that as soon as it is.

[smargaret]

Again, not answering things until the massclaim is over. And I'd strongly advise against discussing stuff until the massclaim ends, because it gives scum (if they haven't claimed yet) a chance to modify their claims.

[smargaret]

So then why I didn't claim immediately - millers get two choices. Claim immediately and get lynched d1, which basically forces a mislynch and causes all kinds of wifom, or don't claim, play your best, and hope you get nk'd before you get investigated. I went for the latter choice. It's how I knew Hermy wasn't an unknown miller. It's why I was so quick to pick up on Matt's hints.

If you guys need to lynch me, I get it - like I said, I was supposed to have been nk'd before it came to this point. I want to talk a bit about the claims first, but yeah, claimed millers don't get to live.

Also, HER. For crying out loud, it's not like my name doesn't give away my gender here.

[smargaret]

Scum had a JOAT, at least. Town has (assuming we believe everyone's claims) a doctor, a one-shot cop, a tracker, a jailkeeper, a one-shot vote stealer, and a miller. This is way overpowered. I'd bet scum has claimed a pr, and jk is a much better option (especially one that may or may not work), especially if scum have a roleblocker (which with cop or tracker plus doc, scum pretty much have to have a rb).

I still don't like the Rach/honig spot, but while that was a terrible way to use the votesteal (not just that I'm not scum. But save it for lylo if you're town! Not for a weak wagon on yourself!), it wasn't a particularly scummy way to use the votesteal given how the day fell out. So mayble a little less scummy? I'm more inclined to see Rach as scum than kj, though, and I think it's entirely likely that one of the Pevensies is scum fakeclaiming. And Garmr is still scummy for the same reasons I listed yesterday.

But yeah. Peace, then Garmr or Rach.

Garmr, I'd chalk up the "sane cop" flip to a quirk of the mod.

[smargaret]

and on that note,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peace

[smargaret]

Jk and doc though? And no balanced setup is going to put all the scum power in one role. I have to go to bed, so I don't have time to put together something long on Garmr (give me a day, I don't know when I'm getting home from work tomorrow).

There is no way we have a town with two protective roles and two investigative roles. There is just no way, vote steal or no vote steal.

[smargaret]

So what your saying is that there can only be one of each and that would automatically make Peace and Skelda scum. Yet you are going to put something together on me, I don't buy it. Also your contradicting yourself you had a major scum read on rachmarie yet by the above post leaves us with situations

1.For me to be scum with rachmarie we would have to have four scum at the start which I doubt.

2.That I am scum and rachmarie is town which also doesn't make sense because

2A. That's one of your main reasons for me being scum.

2B. Also what would my motive in defending her be day 2 and early day 3 Which would of been a golden opportunity for a easy mislynch and who would blame me everyone was under the impresion she was lurking. Not including the fact that a rachmarie lynch over a hermy lynch may of gave hermy a extra day. I could of placed my vote on rachmarie and hermy would of hammered it.

3. Rachmarie is scum and peacebringer/Skelda is scum due to the amount of power roles and I am town which also brings up the question of why are you trying to make a case on me if it's scenario 3.

Jk and doc though? And no balanced setup is going to put all the scum power in one role. I have to go to bed,

so I don't have time to put together something long on Garmr

(give me a day, I don't know when I'm getting home from work tomorrow).

There is no way we have a town with two protective roles and two investigative roles. There is just no way, vote steal or no vote steal.

Also another thing is you had a scum read on me before and you haven't even tried to push it that's not acceptable.

2D. Peacebringer and skelda are scum together. This is plausible but I have town read on both which leads me to believe the next solution.

2E. Your scum and your looking for a mislynch. Why would a miller even be in a game where the inspector is one shot?

I could get deeper into this but I want to see your response.

Garmr - I don't think that you, rach, peace, and hermy are a four-player scumteam. I know Hermy was scum; I think that two out of {you, Rach, Peace} make up the remaining two members of the scumteam. In other words, if we lynch Peace today and Peace miraculously flips town, then I'm going to be looking a whole lot closer at you. As far as why I haven't pushed at you, I've had a weaker read on you - it just hasn't been a priority. The only reason I was going to write anything up on it today was because moz asked why.

Also, no, I'm not saying that we only have one of {cop, tracker} and one of {doc, jk}. I'm saying that we do not have all four prs claimed - even with the weakening. We just don't. Of the four, I think that the jk is most likely to be scum. This is why Peace needs rope today.

[smargaret]

I am slightly more confident in Peace scum than Rach scum, but I'd be okay voting for either today.

[smargaret]

And that would be a scummy last post. I'd hammer, but I'm already on the wagon.

[smargaret]

I want to hear who Skelda tracked. It's very suspicious that scum - knowing from the massclaim that we have no protective roles - chose to kill a vt.

There's not much I can say. Town is way overpowered if all the claims are true, which makes Skelda and Rach that much more suspicious. But I think we need to hear who Skelda tracked before we do anything.

[smargaret]

Garmr, it's lylo. You need to unvote - but I agree. If Skelda tracked us both as doing nothing, then either scum has one pr in Hermy (which is highly doubtful given just the flips on the townside) or Skelda's lying. The latter is much more likely.

[smargaret]

Garmr, didn't we already go over how you don't vote in LyLo today? And KJ redirecting when it looked like there was some momentum headed for Skelda doesn't look good if Skelda is scum.

The only way that two protective roles makes sense is if you have something holding town back and some serious power on the scum side. Rach's vote steal is swingy if it is town-controlled; but swingy isn't the same as negative utility. It could just as well be serious power behind town. The only way that doc and jk makes sense is if there is actually a miller. And nobody's responding to the fact that a scumteam where nobody has any night actions (except Hermy's JOAT) makes zero sense with the town power lineup.

[smargaret]

will post after I get home from work

[smargaret]

and the dratted site was down last night. I know it looks bad, but I'm working 11.5 hour days this week so I can go away for Thanksgiving and since I have to leave for work in 15 minutes and I'm still in pajamas, I do not have time to post now. Seriously, I will post tonight.

[smargaret]

I really don't want to make a case up out of wholecloth on someone I no longer believe to be scum (mostly because I think Skelda must be scum for balance and garmr/skelda doesn't make sense to me). The reasons I had for the (very transient) scumread on Garmr as of day 3 was relational to Rach (again, relies on Rach being scum, and Garmr/Rach doesn't make sense either for balance purposes at this point, but a lot of the hey wait she's v/la looked a lot like scum defending a buddy) and relational to Hermy - Garmr was first on the wagon, then jumped off quickly when it looked like Hermy was getting run up and promptly tried to start a counterwagon on me. But I'm convinced Skelda is scum, and Garmr/Skelda just doesn't work, so Garmr must be town.

The reason I said I would make a case in the last day was because Skelda asked about it, and then I had the impression that because my scumread was relatively weak and no longer relevant, it was no longer wanted. Because, you know, NO LONGER RELEVANT.

I'm going v/la for Thanksgiving. At this point, in lylo, town is overpowered and Skelda must be scum. I will vote for nobody but Skelda (because anynother scumreads aren't going to be as certain as this is that we don't have a tracker with all the flipped power roles). Yesterday, Peace was scum because either Peace or Skelda had to be lying about their claim. Peace was not lying. Thus Skelda is. We can hash out who the other scum is tomorrow, but Skelda must be scum and so must be the lynch today.

[smargaret]

Scum after Skelda is KJ>Rach>Garmr. Having read on the wiki and thought more, that wasn't a scummy application of vote stealing, and KJ for pushing to switch away from skelda when it looked like skelda was the lynch of the day. But it doesn't really matter since you're going to lynch me and the game's going to be over.

[smargaret]

not sure why I got prodded? I thought I said I'd be v/la for Thanksgiving. I'd really like people to look at Skelda, but Rach probably isn't scum

>> Sorry about that, i have removed your prod. TY <<