Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You can pm me later forbiddan.
On the topic of slow activity, however, I would move that the scum would be going especially out of their way to lurk in this game since it would actually have an effect upon the deadline. To that end, I move that lurking not be tolerated in the slightest for this game.
To that end,Unvote, Vote hasdgfas
Claimed he could not find the thread initially and then he implied that he has a night action.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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So you were just worried about somebody who may potentially have a night action and were just trying to be helpful?hasdgfas wrote:And how does that imply I have a night action? Seriously, it's clarifying the rules.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Because implying you have a night action is a way to make yourself look like potential town and thus avoid being lynched.
Have you done something similar before. Do you have any games I could see where you asked about rule that in no way applied to you?hasdgfas wrote:I ask in thread(if I get the chance), because then if someone had the same question, they don't have to ask it.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I didn't say it was good logic to softclaim on D1. Also, I didn't know asking a couple questions to better understand someone's reasoning and to actually get the game moving in an actual direction is considered "pushing it so hard".Moriarty147 wrote:
Ugh, except this is a crap way of trying to avoid getting yourself lynched and I have no clue why you're pushing it so hard, VP.VP Baltar wrote:Because implying you have a night action is a way to make yourself look like potential town and thus avoid being lynched.
Furthermore, the issue I have with softclaiming on D1 is why would you do that, ever? It basically guarantees you being the N1 NK.
What do you propose we do to get out of the RVS?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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No one said that he should be lynched for it. I think it did deserve clarification, however because I don't assume anyone to be an idiot, and I wouldn't expect someone with a powerrole to be foolishly asking questions like that in the thread. I could however see scum trying to buy town points subtly.
Regardless, hasdfgas has pointed to an example where he did something similar in another game, so it's a moot point now.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I wanted him to clarify his reasons for asking a question in thread that could potentially be harmful to town when he very easily could have pm'ed the question to the mod.
Again, I assume no one to be stupid and the potential to have ulterior motives for asking such a question in the thread does exist.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Because it was implying he had a night action, which could have potentially been a power role. My questioning has shown he has a penchant for asking these types of questions, and thus that implication is no longer valid. Why do you assume that only town persons would have seen his question?YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You don't think potentially outting yourself in the first few pages of a game as a powerrole is harmful to town?elvis wrote:Why would cow implying he has a night action be harmful to the town?
Only if he's town and outed himself as a power role. In which case you shouldn't be voting for him, seeing as he's town, and a power role.
My vote was for added pressure to my questioning. It's not like he's in danger of lynch.
I think you are very much assuming it. You're acting like I'm pointing out something that was barely noticable and could be endangering hasdfgas. The question was very obvious in the sense that i think most people saw it and would have made a mental note of it.elvis wrote:I'm not assuming that. What does that have to do with anything?
I'm willing to admit that perhaps my questioning was a bit risky, but I think the answers that hasdfgas gave proved to be beneficial to the town. Would you disagree?
I disagree. The earlier scum build fakeclaims in games the more likely they are to look protown when they claim later. If a hypo-scum claimed a powerrole in a game and pointed out breadcrumbs from the first few pages of the game, you are telling me that you'd still be highly doubtful of the claim?elvis wrote:If he's scum trying to set up a fake claim, I don't see how that's so harmful to town. Faking a power role is not that easy, contrary to popular belief, and there will be multiple ways to catch him if that's what he's trying to do.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I did not actually say that there was no chance of that. I do, however, think it would be more likely as a scum move than a town move.elvis wrote:I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.
I think he has effectively shown that he likes to nail down the rules. And I'll preempt you on your next question of 'why is my vote still there?'...because it will move as soon as I have a new suspect to put it on. It's not hurting anything where it is at currently, and if hasdfgas were to start gaining a wagon based solely on the points I raised you can rest assured that I would remove it immediately.elvis wrote:My question to you, VP, do you still think what cow did was scummy? Or do you think he just tends to like to nail down the rules?YOUR AD HERE
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Not in my opinion, no. It has been effectively pointed out for everyone to see. As for me saving it for later...that's not really how I play. I don't really take notes on games as I'm playing, so if it came up weeks and weeks later where hasdfgas claimed it is very likely that I would have forgotten. How does keeping it to myself help the accusation gain any "power" later, as opposed to nipping it in the bud initially?Sotty wrote:Doesn't questioning him about it right now make it lose it's power somewhat?YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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elvis wrote:And what makes his question/breadcrumb more likely to be a scum move than a town move?VPB wrote:I don't assume anyone to be an idiot, and I wouldn't expect someone with a powerrole to be foolishly asking questions like that in the thread. I could however see scum trying to buy town points subtly.
No. Why this one stood out to me is the same answer as to the first question. It was done in a very obvious way, which isn't something you expect from a protown person that would be highly interested in keeping themselves safe at the same time they are breadcrumbing.elvis wrote:Do you view all breadcrumbs that way? If not, what was more scummy about this one?YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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And what if I had forgotten the point later? That would not have been very beneficial at all, and I don't think the scenario you are describing would have added any power to my point.sotty wrote:If what you say is true, you wouldn't have believed the claim and you could have used this whole thing as a way of saying why.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I didn'tforceanyone besides hascow to talk about it. I also dropped it when he explained his thinking to me.
Explain how I forced others to talk about it? I never asked for anyone else's opinion on the matter. In fact, you're the one who continues to bring it up after I've answered your questions for nearly two pages to the point where you are asking the same questions again. Does that mean you are now trying to get people to "give more information about who might be power roles and who might not be"?YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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well, I'm just saying that you can't really act like I'm protracting this discussioin when you are in fact the one doing it. I'm pretty sure I have explained my motivations long ago. What do you need explained further that I have not given sufficient reasons for?
You may have considered it a risky move, but I think by the end of my interaction with hasdfgas the town is the one who benefited overall. I guess it's up to your gut at this point what you think my intentions were.YOUR AD HERE
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Well considering there wasn't much else to comment on and people were only talking about me, it's a bit tough to find a target.Pesco47 wrote:Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.
HOWEVER
First of all, you are utterly wrong that every vote shows lynching intent. But that is apprantly how you feel your votes should be weighed. So, we look at your vote. You want me dead and think I'm scum. Here is the important part: You simultaneously FoS EK, meaning you must think she is scum as well and would like her dead after I'm gone. This is all based on your premise that votes show lynching intent (and by extension somewhat, FoS's).pesco wrote:I believe votes have always been indicative of lynching intent. When you said this, you did want cow to hang because that's what your actions had shown.
On the other hand, e_K's questions all feel like loaded ones that goad VPB into particular responses.
Unvote
Vote VPB
FoS e_k
I find it a bit ridiculous that you think both EK and I could be scum. What I think is more likely is that you sensed the slight anti-EK sentiment building given her questioning and wanted to get your two sense in their early.
Unvote, Vote Pesco47
Add to that your attempt to get me to move my vote. I said on page three that I would move it when I found someone scummy and before the end of page 4 you're acting like I'm keeping it there because I can't build a case on anyone. You're really reaching for reasons to pad out your vote and make it look legit it seems to me.
Also, I hope people note how fast the wagon on me built. L-2 on page 4. I would almost guarantee there are one or two scum in there somewhere.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Yes, there is such a thing as bussing and it is possible that we are both scum, however, most scum partners would not begin bussing their partners on page two, argue for two full pages (with hardly anyone else interjecting) and sit by while their partner went to L-1. It could happen, sure, but it's not bloody likely.forbidden wrote:This does not make me feel comfortable. There is a technique called bussing. It's entirely possible both of you are scum, and your argument reinforces that for me. I just plain don't like this.
My reason for voting pesco was also because his reasons for voting me looking really disingenuous. This was pretty clearly stated in my voting post.
I think it's quite interesting that you admit that how fast my wagon was moving was "reckless", and yet the very legitimate possibility of pesco trying to hop on easily seems less likely to you than EK and I coordinating a trap against him.-
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I don't think that is what he said at all actually. Give me your thoughts on these quotes:image wrote:First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.
pesco wrote:There's no good reason for me not to suspect the both of you.pesco wrote:If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.YOUR AD HERE
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I would like you to explain, Pesco, how I am "flinging whatever sticks to cow"? Does it seem to you like I would back his lynch?
Also, how certain are you that either EK or I are scum? If one of us was lynched and flipped down would that make you more assured the other was scum? Why or why not?YOUR AD HERE
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I never said I wanted him lynched as far as I recall. And in fact, once he answered my questions I pulled off of him immediately. I would like you to quote me where I wanted him lynched.Pesco wrote:It doesn't remove the fact that you did want to lynch him in the beginning.
Pesco wrote:I'm as certain as you are about your suspects. If one of you flip town, there are no assurances since anything can happen at night. My assumptions are subject to change once we've seen more info.
These quotes don't agree for me. In the first one you are saying that if one of us was lynched and came up town your "assumptions are subject to change", but then you are saying that Ek and I are "where we're going to find links".Pesco wrote:Two players alone wouldn't make a scumteam if we were to go by standard distributions. But these two players are where we're going to find links
Once again, you appear to be trying to have it both ways simultaneously.-
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So, she's posting frequently and making good posts, but because people aren't following up on what she says you think there is the potential she could be scum?hasdfgas wrote:Like I said earlier, she's not UTR as in never here. In fact, I agree with you that she's present often and is making good posts. I was trying to say that she's UTR as in her posts just seem to go by with no mention.YOUR AD HERE
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You can't claim this if we have not alignment flips. I find this really irritating and it has been happening more often in my games recently. I find it more scummy to say this with no clue of alignments than to actually attack somebody's attacker.PaperPenguin wrote:Chainsaw defense, that's how this could possibly be percieved as a reason against me. There is kinship between scotty and Image.
Why would you not claim this immediately at the start of the game? This just looks like your way of avoiding an investigation if you survive the day.PaperPenguin wrote:Oh, and I am a miller, not that it matters at this point.
Right now I am going to leave my vote on Pesco, but I am going to take some time to do a solid reread today and I might switch to PP. His play has been pretty scummy and that miller thing is just ridiculous at this point.
I also think we should try to come to some sort of a concensus today as to who to lynch so we will have time to assess that persons roleclaim. At best I would say we have 3 or 4 days until deadline.YOUR AD HERE
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Sotty made a valid point that you attacked imagine for lurking right after he posted. This is especially suspicious considering it was a substantial post regarding your scumminess.PP wrote:He is obviously either kissing up, or blindly defending. Having a flip or not is irrelevant to this point. Oh and what exactly am I discounting?
You are trying to discount Sotty's point by saying she's (sorry for the wrong pronoun use earlier) chainsawing for Image, when really she likely just pointing out something she thought you did that was suspicious.
Having a flip is relevant because, at the very best, what you are saying only has a 50/50 shot of being true, and is probably much less likely than that.YOUR AD HERE
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Hold the phone. I thought Juls had never played with him before or something? If this is true, then Juls definitely needs another look because I think one game with Emp is enough to understand you can't expect any better out of him. Do you know which game this was Sotty?Sotty wrote:I have no idea why you have put Juls in the “town” cateroy here. She has been pretty absent and her fixation on empking despite having played with him before makes her look pretty bad to me.YOUR AD HERE
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Catching up a bit.
@Juls--I will give you that he was a bit more active in the Vengeful game, but not terribly so. I don't think Mish Mash has anything do with mafia, so that means nothing to me. I'm a bit torn on you not knowing Emp's meta because, well, that is like someone saying they don't know zwet's meta. These are people who are generally mentioned together and their reputations tend to proceed them in most every game I've seen or played with them in. If you were newer I could understand, but you've been around long enough for me to believe you would have at least heard of Emp and his awful play.
Furthermore, the only game I have been in with Emp where he was scum was Carnival Mafia and he was reasonably active as well.
Unfortunately, these things on their own mean a mountain of squat pretty much because it's too much speculation.
On the other hand, we have utter ridiculousness:
The argument against him wanting Ek lynched even though he thinks she is scummy is very odd as well.Empking wrote:Has: You for hypocrisy and EK for reasons I can't recall.
All that being said, Empking lynch makes me leery...as it always does. This is the problem with him and zwet. It always seems too easy a lynch for the scum to get. Ugh.
In other news: wagon peak analysis!
Vi wrote:PaperPenguin (LYNCH) ~ image, X, Sotty7, Moriarty147, Empking, forbiddanlight, JulsVi wrote:Pesco47 (L-2) ~ Moriarty147, VP Baltar, elvis_knits, hasdgfas, Juls
It should be noted as well that Emp was on my wagon at one point when it started gaining steam, which he did so with the fantastic reasoning of "rolefishing".Vi wrote:VP Baltar (L-4) ~Juls, Sotty7,elvis_knits, Empking, Pesco47
So, looking back at these votes and the day I'd like to hear some answers to these questions:
X, do you think there was scum on the PP lynch? If so, who?
Emp, you didn't comment at all yesterday about Pesco...what are your feelings on him in general and also the way he linked EK and I?
Juls, you were on all of the major wagons and when you weren't on one of those you had your vote parked on Emp. Why did you switch your vote to Pesco even though you had been arguing with Emp most of the day?
That's a start.-
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So you are saying that you'd be good with following through with the Emp lynch right now without hesitation?forbiddanlight wrote:
Sometimes scummy playstyles actually do roll scum.
All that being said, Empking lynch makes me leery...as it always does. This is the problem with him and zwet. It always seems too easy a lynch for the scum to get. Ugh.
You have to go for it sometimes.-
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VP wrote:Juls, you were on all of the major wagons and when you weren't on one of those you had your vote parked on Emp. Why did you switch your vote to Pesco even though you had been arguing with Emp most of the day?
The following people should start playing this game: EK, Emp, hasdfgas, image, moriarty147, Sotty.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Ok, it looks like I was misplacing the order of events a bit. Your back and forth with Emp took place largely after your Pesco vote. However, what I said is still accurate in the sense that Emp is your most serious vote before Pesco. Even in your vote on Pesco you're still sure to mention your suspicion on Emp (FoS). You're also quick to go at emp for most of the rest of the day and return your vote to him with little to no questioning really directed at anyone else.Juls wrote:And by the way you are misrepping me here. You said I had been arguing Empking most of the day before I voted Pesco. In the very same post I tralked about my problems with pesco's linking ek/VP. During the posts between my Empking vote and Pesco vote I did not argue with Empking or try to convince anyone to switch their vote to him. Prior to my vote on Empking I did not discuss him in any serious manner.
The problem with all of this, of course, is the way PP claimed miller. I can't really blame you for putting your vote there because it was scummy as hell.
I think it is a bit interesting how you are suddenly getting cold feet about Emp now that his wagon is actually gaining steam. You said you would like to "explore more options"...may I inquire who you think is worth exploring?
Also, why did you feel the need to explain your reasons for being on each of the wagons you were on yesterday when I only asked you why you switched your vote to Pesco?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
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- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cows post in 332 is excellenta, I must say. I want to hear what image has to say.
Meh, that's not really my point. Emp has acted scummy and I think players would probably be determining if it was just his playstyle coming into effect or him actually being scum. My argument is that Juls was arguing for him being scum a good portion of D1, but once his lynch gains steam she unvotes him and says we should explore other options.X wrote:Why are people voting Juls instead of Empking? As far as I see, all of the reasons for Juls to be scum amount to buddying with Empking.
Then, when I ask her who her other options would be, she ignores my question. I call her on backing off of emp easily and she is quick to throw her vote back on. Her flipping with the slightest bit of questioning looks scummy to me.
re: Emp potentially being a jester--It's a possibility, but I don't really see his play as fitting into this very well, particularly his lurking. Most jesters I've seen are so overbearingly annoying that it is quite obvious (to me anyhow, usually they still get lynched). He has made some bad logic this game for sure, but that seems pretty much par for his course. I personally feel that he'd be a lot more present and obviously bad if he actually were a jester because he certainly isn't making much of an appearance today. Furthermore, we're not seeing any evidence of town aligned killing role at this point, so that makes it even less likely.
I personally don't like to let jesters win. So, if I thought that were the case I would probably be against his lynch, but I don't feel like it is very likely right now.
heh, what a surprise.Juls wrote:I am also seeing some similarities with VP Baltar that I saw in our previous game where he was scum but I will need to reread to be more definitive on this.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Because she could now be trying to distance herself from a townie lynch. Obviously, hypo-scum Juls has already been on one townie lynch and would potentially not want to be on another because late game wagon analysis would implicate her as scum for this.X wrote:How is Juls' stance toward Empking scummy if Empking is town?YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Sorry, I was busy big time yesterday. I'm going to try and catch up in this game a little bit later (though it doesn't look like I missed a whole lot). I would say, however, that the sheer lack of activity in this game looks like scum trying to quickly drive down the deadline.
Proper post coming sometime today.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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