Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

[Jackel98]

BananaCucho's sin is hiding from the VC.

[Jackel98]

Was Radical Rat's religious "roleplaying" really so out of character that two (three if counting D&D) people saw it as a flavour crumb, let alone one obvious enough to just out to everyone? Like, I'll trust you guys if that's the case, but I thought the point of crumbs was to leave subtle clues to point at later, and that pointing them out would be kind of against that.

I don't know how to read androgybee's fakeclaim, if it's AI at all. I guess it could be a way to see if a PR would out themselves, but that's a stretch tbh. Like, gutwise, trolling/muddying the water seems anti-town, since we'd be operating on false assumptions about how corruption works until they either out themselves or get eliminated, but I can't find scum motivation beyond just misinformation.

Joey_, why did you immediately believe their claim, yet you questioned D&D on why they thought SS was voting androgybee for trolling? You did say overthinking is your brand.

[Jackel98]

Joey_, why did you immediately believe their claim, yet you questioned D&D on why they thought SS was voting androgybee for trolling? You did say overthinking is your brand.

My first post

Post restriction was implied in the mod post so I am inclined to take it as cash

I guess reading isn't your brand

It's not that I can't read, but comprehension isn't a strong suit of mine, apparently. Specifically, I can't comprehend how that answers the question. You take their claim at face value, no questions asked, because the mod colours the word, but you do question D&D how they could have read "VOTE: , [statement]" as the statement being reasoning for the vote.

[Jackel98]

Do you mean the "exclamation marks are encouraged/required in sinful moderation"? I was curious about that, tbh.
@SS What exactly did you ask the mod about? Like, bee's claim specifically or post restrictions in general?

Also, the two are pretty related imo. At least considering that I have no experience with you and you yourself say that you overthink, it just seems odd.

PEDIT after last two messages:
I guess I'll have to disagree with you on the difference between the two posts' objectivity and complexity. Just because one post is a claim doesn't make it devoid of any thought process or agenda. If anything, a claim would require more forethought (especially considering they're a hydra), and a claim would certainly try to be more persuasive than a question about a post's meaning. Like, the response to the two seems backwards to me, which is where my uneasiness lies.

[Jackel98]

Hey, I'm back from vacation last week and job interviews yesterday, and I've been spending most of today reading and making reads. I'll admit that I froze up a couple times when thinking about coming back and doing this, and I'm really sorry for not posting since the beginning. I'll be posting more soon, but first I'm gonna

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

and joey, like, I'm ok with you calling me alligator but please use my listed pronouns

[Jackel98]

Ok, so my reads, scores from -3 (Scum) to +3 (Townie):

I hate that I think Joey_ is my strongest townread. The way he thinks, the way he writes, it all really annoys me, but it's coming from a place that I think is townie, and he seems to be putting a lot of effort into that. He believes his reads, however wrong I think they are. +3

My strongest scumread is definitely NEE. On the one hand, I recognize that this could be seen as OMGUS, but it really strikes me as odd how, despite being the first one to vote for me in 219 and repeatedly putting me as his strongest scumread, he waits until 288 to give a reason beyond not having a townread, and even there he only echoes Banana. In 312, he finally posts original reasons, although I disagree with the reasons. The rest of his reasoning is agreeing with Joey, eliminate lurkers, and the potential of more info. This, his other scumreads being mostly based on inactivity, what looked to maybe be a failed attempt at a wagon on catboi (this is mostly gut tbh), and that weird trying to get Starbuck with a gotcha in 394 just makes me really read this slot as scum. Idk, the rest of his interactions, especially with Banana and Joey, feel like attempts to buddy or just be jocular or whatever. -3

After NEE is D&D, but they're a significantly weaker scumread. I don't understand their reads, and that's mostly what they talk about. This read/lean is really just mostly feelings. -1½

Mechanically, Banana is probably town. I'm ambivalent about their posting. They are active, but their posts aren't really AI, and their switching between being open and reticent about their role annoys me, but that is probably just paranoia about the possibility of a mafia corruption redirector or whatever posing as a stump, which is really unlikely considering their lack of a vote. -½

S_S hasn't interacted with many people, despite being relatively active post-wise. He's kept the same vote since post 62. -½

@Something_Smart:

Is your vote still where you want it? What are your current reads and opinions?

[Doing more explained reads isn't possible if I want to finish tonight, considering I did fall asleep in the middle already so here goes]

Catboi: +1½
androgybee: +¾
redtea: +1

the rest: 0

My bad, in my head an alligator was ''a he'' by default

No problem, just figured I'd say something now, while it's still relatively early.

[Jackel98]

Your reasonings for scumreading me are very weak in regards to the strength of your read Jackel. Which leads me to believe you are either performing OMGUS as town or are scum.
Btw you say you agree with everything Joey has said, so you agree with their scumread on you? You disagree with their townread on me? Can you elaborate more on these points?

I think you've misinterpreted me. I didn't mean that I was agreeing with Joey_, but that you were. I hardly agree with Joey_ on anything.

On the strength of my read on you, do you think that your reasoning is stronger, then? I think that's pretty hard to compare, generally, but what specifically do you have against my read on you (besides that it's on you)?

[Jackel98]

Btw Jackel, you really need to clarify where Joey went wrong in TRing me if i'm supposed to take your read of town!Joey seriously. Do you think Joey is a bad player than is town but cannot read me as well as you can? What are your thoughts regarding this?

I can think someone is town while also hating their reads and how obtusely and self-assuredly they word everything.

[Jackel98]

I know it’s an unpopular proposition in this game and on mafiascum in general, but flipping a low activity player like porkens who hasn’t been mentionned can actually gives a lot of associative infos.

Porkens was mentionned a few instances in this game by few people, especially when he was being compared to the alligator/red scum pool. I think it would be relatively easy to see all the slots who actively avoided the porkens issue

Is there a reason why you'd want Porkens over NDMath? Also, wouldn't it be hard to tell who actively avoided Porkens and who just forgot that they existed?

Here's another question for you: why your TR on Norwee? Is it only the reasons listed in posts 243–247?

[Jackel98]

I want porkens over math because i think hes more likely to flip mefia, i an a simple man

About porkens, yes it might ne not easy, associatives are rarely easy anyways. I am not gonna lie either, it’s an after/the/fact justification because I want to flip porkens, regardless of the possibilities of associatives

If my only stated reason to tr NEE is that he towntold into oblivion? Yes alligator, it’s my only reason

I'm rusty, and being told he towntold doesn't really help me if you don't elaborate. Like, I just wanted to verify that your whole reasoning is meta and "great posts", since I couldn't find anything else.

[Jackel98]

Oh, and town POV

[Jackel98]

No wait that was catboi so I'm back at not understanding. Sorry for triplepost

[Jackel98]

Wow, you didn’t even let him claim.

This is weird. You clearly already said above (as did I) that ND claimed, so why are you mad at Banana (if his hammer is even real)?

This is an overly serious post that completely failed to understand irony and that gives me scumpings.

Says the person who thought catboi had solved the game

[Jackel98]

I was planning on voting NEE immediately, but the flips are making me reconsider that. Gonna have to reread.

[Jackel98]

I've still got zero corruption

[Jackel98]

It wasn't that Banana had zero corruption, but that they didn't have a corruption value at all, I think? Is that right?

[Jackel98]

It wasn't that Banana had zero corruption, but that they didn't have a corruption value at all, I think? Is that right?

I don't see the difference?

It's like one person having a box that is empty right now, but it could be full later. Another person might not have a box at all, though? Analogies aren't my specialty.

Anyways, though, I just realized that I misread what you said about having zero corruption = no vote for you, thinking that you meant that you had no corruption

[Jackel98]

Note: the S_S kill could also have been a townie with an NK who scumread him

[Jackel98]

I was going to say how I remembered him being somewhat widely scumread, but I think I somehow mixed up redtea and S_S in my head, but still remembered your symbolic vote on him so idk.

What's a KPN?

[Jackel98]

Ooooops lmao

VOTE: Something Smart

But it was for the vote on androgybee for trolling, which was shortly cleared up. Like I said, I got all kinds of mixed up.

Honestly, with the Joey kill, I'd think it'd be better to look at his townreads in this case. Like, he was generally townread, so he wasn't likely to be eliminated, especially considering the only person I can remember really suspecting him was redtea, a close candidate for the elimination? IDK, I really ought to sleep before trying to decide which way I should read the WIFOM

[Jackel98]

I agree with the reasoning for voting Porkens, but , but right now I'm gonna go with my gut and
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Bell, that was my half of my thinking when I thought S_S was redtea and suggested it, and I still think so, despite S_S not, in fact, being redtea.

[Jackel98]

You’re clearly scum for rushing this banana.
I won’t even see porkens no doubt great analysis that will break this game wide open.

Bell, was this a joke? I meant to ask, but then the thread was locked.

[Jackel98]

You’re clearly scum for rushing this banana.

I won’t even see porkens no doubt great analysis that will break this game wide open.

This made me think it was a joke, but Starbucks' reaction to you, Bell, and Porkens' reactions to Banana's "hammer" made me question myself

[Jackel98]

I want porkens over math because i think hes more likely to flip mefia, i an a simple man

About porkens, yes it might ne not easy, associatives are rarely easy anyways. I am not gonna lie either, it’s an after/the/fact justification because I want to flip porkens, regardless of the possibilities of associatives

If my only stated reason to tr NEE is that he towntold into oblivion? Yes alligator, it’s my only reason

I'm rusty, and being told he towntold doesn't really help me if you don't elaborate. Like, I just wanted to verify that your whole reasoning is meta and "great posts", since I couldn't find anything else.

I am on my cell phone and I am going to work. Remind me to show you the game I used meta to sort NEE

Just realized I forgot to remind him

[Jackel98]

I'd like it if Jackel could explain why they're online but not posting, because right now all i can think of is 2 possiblities:
1: They fell asleep on their keyboard and left their laptop on MS.
2: They've been only posting in a scum PT.

Dude, I just leave the MS tab open in my browser. That doesn't mean I'm not busy with other things.

Could you, like, actually explain your scumreads? I get that posts and people can just seem scummy, but, for your read on me, I can't really find anything about you scumreading me, as opposed to just not townreading me or thinking it would be good for info/activity reasons, and it hasn't changed since the start of the day. That doesn't seem strong enough to then advocate for eliminating + vigging both me and Starbuck, where it would put us at ELo if you're wrong twice. Is there any reasoning beyond this for me being your #1 scumpick?

[Jackel98]

I'm probably not going to wake up until deadline has passed tonight once i sleep. So i'd like it if we could just decide on what we're doing soon.

I’ll be around. Top 3 eliminations you would like to have happen and why?

Today my top 3 so far are:

1: Jackel: For what i see as awkward position between TR Joey_ and scumreading me. Their posts have mostly been pointless fluff and their reaction to pressure has been really toned down yet twitchy. (Which i think is usually scum indicative) Their main scumread right now is seemingly just an OMGUS read on me.
2: NDMath: I don't see any reason to TR them and it's the lynch most people would agree on this close to deadline.
3: Porkens: Mostly on the list because i am Sheeping Joey_'s read, i actually have Porkens only at null atm, but maybe Joey_ sees something i don't.

I must have missed this, but I don't quite get it. You're scumreading me for not sheeping Joey? (Is that a counter OMGUS? ) Your other top two are just following the will of town and Joey, I think.

[Jackel98]

I had this thought and then reread, he actually said if "one of them flips scum, vig the other"

I also misread that. Sorry, @Norwee. The rest of what I said stands, though.

Beetlejuice achievement unlocked!

Valid question, although...Jackel why do you TR starbuck?

I don't think that I've said that I do? She has posted only once today, and her way of posting is very much short bites of opinions on a lot of things in succession, but rarely directly trying to engage with others that haven't engaged with her first. She's playing in a way that would be good for scum, but she doesn't really fit with NEE being scum rn, and, like, idk?

[Jackel98]

I'm also concerned that Jackal jumped aboard that because I try to think the best of folks when there are longer than usual absences, which is why I stood up for her when folks went after her for the same thing yesterday. I also think androgybee's late entrance to Day 2 and shade of me (when they haven't even tried to be around) is hypocritical.

For the record, I don't think you're scum; I was just confused by Porkens thinking I had a TR on you. You're mostly null? I generally agree with your reads, and you don't mesh well with my top SRs. I just agreed that lurking can be a good strategy for scum to fly under the radar.

I can't remember who said it day 1, but eventually we're just gonna have to get some courage to vote a less active player, unless you want to vote an active player. Which imo is a bad idea right now because literally all scum has to do this game is target the rest of the active players at night and lurk the game into a victory, because after finding out Bell is a fruit vendor I'm not voting them and

I highly doubt that both DD+Norwee are scum

Why? Is it more that you townread them independently (so you think it's statistically unlikely that both would flip town), or that you have a specific reason for you thinking that those two wouldn't be scum together?\

@Bell

Give me fruit again tonight. If I die (very likely) I take the corruption with me.

That really doesn't sound like a good idea. Then scum can just kill someone else, since you'd be dead anyways.



OK so I really thought I sent the above at like 12:44 but apparently I didn't.

[Jackel98]

It's starting to feel really scummy how people like Jackel and Starbuck are scumread for bad content/bad posts yet they keep framing it as if they're being pushed for "inactivity" (even though that is also a point against them) and trying to vote active players.

Do you think only inactive players should be pushed right now? Also, that's not my main reason for SRing you. It's that I can't find any substance beyond the inactivity behind your reads, and you haven't responded once when I asked for some.

Jackel, did you end up looking into Joey's townreads?

Not really, tbh? I tried to work it out, but it was just a mass of WIFOM. Like, I scumread NEE. I can build a narrative in my head for why NEE would kill Joey (lock in Joey's TR on him, throw suspicion on his SRs), but that's really just confirmation bias.

And I only have 1 corruption rn, if I get a 2nd corruption I won't die. I was able to cancel my self harm action with Dunn.

I mean, it'd probably be better for a generally scumread person to take it, especially one who doesn't have any corruption yet, imo?

[Jackel98]

Assuming Norwee doesn't tunnel me into the ground today, I'd take the fruit, sure.

Maybe Porkens? That's like a mega compromise, though. I'm also sort of still scumleaning on DD.

[Jackel98]

is changing avatars in the middle of a game considered bad etiquette? like, it would make me no longer "alligator", but my current one is meh.

[Jackel98]

nvm it can wait

[Jackel98]

is changing avatars in the middle of a game considered bad etiquette? like, it would make me no longer "alligator", but my current one is meh.

If that’s bad etiquette i’d be the rudest guy in town considering my history of doing it.

Ok but please answer my other questions

[Jackel98]

ffs

[Jackel98]

Maybe later.

dude you are the worst except the worst is better than you smh

[Jackel98]

（♯▼皿▼）Wait, this is total bullshit, both jackel and starbuck come out saying to look at joey's townreads and yet they're both trying to push norwee, who joey had as obvtown, the do-nothing lurker side of the game is actively trying to rip apart the towncore from day 1, this is very much a deliberate action even if they're not all scum, it's really easy to see what's going on.

When I said that I'd sooner look at Joey's townreads, it was in response to Banana talking about how likely Porkens would be to kill Joey considering Joey's push on them and then posting Joey's readslist. Like, my point was very much that I felt that Joey's obvtown read on Norwee could be a motive, but I have since admitted that this could definitely just be confbias wrt my existing SR of him.

Paying lip service to a dead townie while actively working to discredit their reads is scummy, there's no excuse for it. If hey were just stating disagreement it'd be one thing but they both went ut of the way to comment on his townreads and then not ake it into account at all - this is not a genuine thought process of people looking to evaluate his opinions but words of people trying to appear conscientious.

I made it clear several times that while I hard-townread Joey, I absolutely disagreed with his townreads. I thought it was obvious in context what my intention was with my pointing towards his TRs, considering my past posts. Should I stop disagreeing with a townie just because they flip, since apparently pushing for Norwee now is discrediting Joey?

[Jackel98]

why don't we all compromise on nee tbh

also i think a massclaim could be neat, but that's more my curiosity talking. also clear up whether the second kill was still scum

[Jackel98]

I am Vanilla Town

[Jackel98]

EBWOP: a vanilla townie

[Jackel98]

UNVOTE: NEE
I'm gonna do it
VOTE: BananaCucho

[Jackel98]

Are safe claims commonly given to scum? If so, and if all demons have Consume Sin (not sure of that's gluttony-only), cleric safeclaim could make sense.

I'm down for a Norwee elim

[Jackel98]

But if not, then Norwee would have to have known about the Cleric some other way to make that connection

[Jackel98]

Oh votes reset, neat. It's a sign that I should go back to voting Norwee
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[Jackel98]

I mean, when I tried to ask questions, I get told to shove it up my ass so idk

[Jackel98]

I am ecstatic. I am also at work.

[Jackel98]

He's pushing two of the towniest players in the game (cat, nor), and his pushes are so far removed from the reality of the gamestate that i'm having a hard time seeing it come from a town perspective

I am not a slave to the gamestate!

Gamestate is for wieners

[Jackel98]

Porkens: *Does nothing except tunnel the same read for an eternity. Never explaining much other than that he "feels" this is scum*

= is scumread by many players.

Porkens: *Shocked Pikachu face*

Jackel please answer this

@Jackelgator, when you are back can you answer me a question please? Could you explain your vote on me? I shrugged if off earlier, but when I was going through your ISO I found these posts:

Spoiler: Jackelgator

I'm also concerned that Jackal jumped aboard that because I try to think the best of folks when there are longer than usual absences, which is why I stood up for her when folks went after her for the same thing yesterday. I also think androgybee's late entrance to Day 2 and shade of me (when they haven't even tried to be around) is hypocritical.

For the record, I don't think you're scum; I was just confused by Porkens thinking I had a TR on you. You're mostly null? I generally agree with your reads, and you don't mesh well with my top SRs. I just agreed that lurking can be a good strategy for scum to fly under the radar.

I can't remember who said it day 1, but eventually we're just gonna have to get some courage to vote a less active player, unless you want to vote an active player. Which imo is a bad idea right now because literally all scum has to do this game is target the rest of the active players at night and lurk the game into a victory, because after finding out Bell is a fruit vendor I'm not voting them and

I highly doubt that both DD+Norwee are scum

Why? Is it more that you townread them independently (so you think it's statistically unlikely that both would flip town), or that you have a specific reason for you thinking that those two wouldn't be scum together?\

@Bell

Give me fruit again tonight. If I die (very likely) I take the corruption with me.

That really doesn't sound like a good idea. Then scum can just kill someone else, since you'd be dead anyways.

OK so I really thought I sent the above at like 12:44 but apparently I didn't.

It's starting to feel really scummy how people like Jackel and Starbuck are scumread for bad content/bad posts yet they keep framing it as if they're being pushed for "inactivity" (even though that is also a point against them) and trying to vote active players.

Do you think only inactive players should be pushed right now? Also, that's not my main reason for SRing you. It's that I can't find any substance beyond the inactivity behind your reads, and you haven't responded once when I asked for some.

Jackel, did you end up looking into Joey's townreads?

Not really, tbh? I tried to work it out, but it was just a mass of WIFOM. Like, I scumread NEE. I can build a narrative in my head for why NEE would kill Joey (lock in Joey's TR on him, throw suspicion on his SRs), but that's really just confirmation bias.

And I only have 1 corruption rn, if I get a 2nd corruption I won't die. I was able to cancel my self harm action with Dunn.

I mean, it'd probably be better for a generally scumread person to take it, especially one who doesn't have any corruption yet, imo?

UNVOTE: NEE
I'm gonna do it
VOTE: BananaCucho

From what I can see, you seemed to show concern for me taking the fruit from Bell again, assuming that I would die, and that that would be a bad thing. So I just need to clear up this point, thanks

I think I should ISO myself and see what questions I've asked people that they haven't answered -_- I'm sure there's 100+ for Porkens alone

Fine. In the first quote, I was saying that, assuming you were dying anyways, it would be a bad strategy. I also thought you had used your ability and had two corruption, not one, so the one fruit would kill you. I thought scum would just get a free kill.

In the second quote, I think it's pretty obvious that I was suggesting that I get the fruit. Since we've claimed, I can say that I am a VT, so I don't have as much utility besides being a corruption sponge, tbh. Granted, having seen how the scums' corruption works, this looks sus in retrospect.

The third quote was shortly after I'd seen Norwee's claim and decided you might be better statistically. I'd had suspicions you were a 3p, and the cleric claim lessened my suspicions of him in the moment. However, the Bell flip and the showing of how his corruption worked, plus his consume corruption ability, was enough to tip it back to NEE. You're still on my radar, though. I find it really weird that you didn't read your role all the way through, considering it seems pretty neat, and asking for corruption while you already have one corruption

and

have a PR power that gives corruption to yourself seems suspicious imo.

[Jackel98]

i composite with mspaint.exe

[Jackel98]

Hey, the transformer for my block exploded right before night ended, and it just got fixed today. I'll be catching up and doing a react after I eat dinner. but anyways yeah my reads were like the definition of wrong, i'll admit.