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[Human Sequencer]

Yo team.
VOTE: TwoFace
Stupid gimmick to be honest.

Having just finished a game with HumanSequencer where he was very active very often his lack of confirmation seemed like a good place to start investigating.

If timezone is relevant, I'm AEST but am usually available from 12AM-6AM in that timezone, which I'll usually use daily to contribute.

I sleep at 6AM, wake up and work until about 10PM~12AM (now). There was no way for me to know that this was full and ready, for I was asleep or working.

@mortfeld, were you following the game with almost one forth of the playerlist here?

[Human Sequencer]

That was very informative, Naomi. Here's my rebuttal.
As town, I try to lynch scum.

[Human Sequencer]

Sounds like an easy excuse to act as scummy as you want.
UNVOTE:

[Human Sequencer]

Not really.
I'd like to see your other account, if you have one.

[Human Sequencer]

I'll clarify.

Well known in have but that is not the point!

Well now I have but that is not the point!

[Human Sequencer]

VOTE: Creeps
Sure, you've probably played somewhere else, but calling on player meta when you've played about two games is pretty fucking stupid to be honest. Especially when that call is a complete cop out to try and disregard a scumslip. The end of 51 reads scummy intent and guilty conscience to me.

[Human Sequencer]

I forgot to add.
@mortfeld I was referring to newbie 1744.
Apologies for the double post.

[Human Sequencer]

Talking about naomi's meta is boring and fruitless. It will be helpful to remember, but it'll just clog up the thread for when we want to reread it.
In fact all this talk about player meta in general is boring and fruitless.

Misa, what do you think about Chaos' vote on you? Do you have a defense?

Uzi, why did you decide to post, even though you were clearly aware of TwoFace's post at the time?
Green and red is not radical terminology, nor is it particularly confusing. What do you gain from asking that question, from a town perspective?

I think it's unlikely that TwoFace wasn't referring to Creep's wagon in post 65.

[Human Sequencer]

In all honesty I ignore threads when they are in RvS.

I think we found the source of your 'EVERYBODY SCUMREADS ME' problem.

[Human Sequencer]

I personally think red/green is the better way to refer to them. I use 'red' all the time.

@criticisms of the creeps wagon
Let's obviously not lynch Creeps yet when we still have 13 days to eek discussion and scumtells out of. A wagon is a convenient way to garner discussion.

FOS: TwoFace

[Human Sequencer]

@copper
His ISO is pretty much empty, with a lot of safe comments and IIoA.
I think answering 'I don't have any reads' is more likely to come from scum than otherwise.

I think why Naomi has a reputation of being so hard to read because she's always acting, whether she's scum or not.

[Human Sequencer]

@twoface
I didn't say town can't have no opinion. I said I believe it's more likely for scum to say they have no opinion.

[Human Sequencer]

This is my second game.

[Human Sequencer]

>if you disagree with me or read me as scum you're new and stupid
lol ok

[Human Sequencer]

>if you disagree with me or read me as scum you're new and stupid
lol ok

[Human Sequencer]

^

[Human Sequencer]

Why didn't you say that in post 182?

[Human Sequencer]

Okay. I'm not suspicious of you at the moment, just to clarify.
I really wouldn't mind creeps at L-1 to be honest. I don't think a omgushammer is likely and even in worst case scenario I don't think he's going to be of much help after today, even if he does flip green.

Drone, do you agree?

[Human Sequencer]

Well, I wasn't expecting literally 150 posts to come home to. Walls inbound.

Spoiler: Drone question

I asked Drone specifically because he was AFK, to call him into the thread. I chose him over Loli because Key had told us he had confirmed, so I thought he might be lurking the thread. With a question out in the open, he had no excuse to keep passively reading.
I didn't realize Key told us he was V/LA. Sorry about that.

Spoiler: Twoface

This is horrible to me. Why does this only ping you now that you're on the wagon? This isn't easy to miss-- Post 108 was a topical point of conversation ever since Mort's vote. You only bring it up once you've already got a vote you have to justify. This comes right on the heels of Mort backtracking because he made a mistake.
Copper touches on this soon after and an argument ensues-- I don't understand how none of you can see the same contradiction Copper and I just did.

Spoiler: Mort

I think post 241 isn't really accurate, because I don't think that Mort had offended onto Copper much at all. I assumed Mort was still going to re-evaluate but just didn't have the time. But Mort's response is telling nonetheless, he sticks to it and keeps pushing when he comes across resistance, which is a

CLEAR CONTRADICTION

. With this in mind, read post 221 again. As Town, Mort would truly want to re-evaluate his read on Copper, because the misunderstanding inherently changes how scummy Copper might appear in Mort's eyes. As Scum, he doesn't actually have to do that because it doesn't coincide with his win condition, and therefore is a lot easier to forget. This is incredibly scummy to me.

Spoiler: Random commentary

The end of page 11 derails into Copper logically explaining his perspective and Mort/TwoFace decrying him with a whole bunch of ad hom, having run out of actual threads to follow. It's music to my ears. Copper's ego also comically comes out.

Spoiler: More on Mort

I don't see town motivation to avoid answering questions, especially when those questions are very obviously not meant to entrap.

Why did you change your vote from creeps to copper?

Don't feel like answering this.

This is why I pushed on asking why you didn't answer. Because I don't see town motivation to avoid answering questions.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@MOD, Could we please have a vote count?

If Mort isn't at L-1, I want to put him there.

Also, @Copper commenting on my lack of activity compared to last game somewhere in there.
All of the action is happening while I'm away in this game, so instead of being frustrated at nothing happening and trying to make things happen, I'm playing catch up with everybody else.

[Human Sequencer]

That wasn't nearly as wally as I thought it would be.

If I missed anything directed at me or otherwise, feel free to bring it to my attention.

[Human Sequencer]

I think Creeps is silly. He might be a liability later on, but he isn't worth lynching yet.
ThinkBig needs to post more. I'm not entirely sure yet.

[Human Sequencer]

VOTE: MortFeld

[Human Sequencer]

Alright.
I didn't realize key told us he was V/LA. Sorry about that.

[Human Sequencer]

Drone, stop defending me. I can do that myself.

[Human Sequencer]

No, it's to the right near the end of the line. I only read Mafia on pc, do you use a mobile?

I read 'Drone had been confirmed', recognized that as the most important part of the message, and disregarded the rest as unimportant.
I always skim mod posts (no offense Key) because they're a function of the game, and all of the reads and information is in player posts. I just head in, get what I need, and get out.

I wasn't actually skimming at that point, by the way, because I was actively here like I am most nights in that time slot.

[Human Sequencer]

I wasn't actually skimming the thread at that point*

[Human Sequencer]

It's intentionally blank.
I don't mind what you use.

[Human Sequencer]

Could you give us a more detailed case on Copper and I? I've skimmed your ISO and can't see you giving any real reasoning so far apart from 'I don't like you!' and the Drone question.

[Human Sequencer]

You should give that another look. There's no way I could test his V/LA as you seem to imply I was doing in your second line and also miss the V/LA as you believe I do in the first line.

TwoFace, please link me right now to where you already discussed your view on Copper. I can't find it.
Regardless, what incentive does scumCopper have to do that?

Drone worries me. I'll explain why later, if it becomes relevant. I'm just signposting this now so it doesn't look like I'm talking out of my ass later on.

[Human Sequencer]

That makes sense. I thought they were mutually exclusive, because I was looking at them from the same perspective in time. Sorry about that.

[Human Sequencer]

There is no "mis" in lynchbait you idiot, so no it does not mean that, it means someone that is easily lynched and SCUM CAN BE AN EASY LYNCH AS WELL.

I have been playing this game likely for more years than you have lived, I also have for sure the highest win-rate as scum and third party on this forum (as I have never lost) and I doubt there are many players with a better town win-rate (closing in on 80% now) so I know what I am talking about and you do not.

Blah blah blah

Hopefully we lynch you. If not I really hope we have a vig

Oh you mean this one?

[Human Sequencer]

So disregarding the fact that Copper is correct and you are misusing the term Lynchbait, because you seem to be pretty adamant on that...

How does 'You obviously misread my posts' correlate to 'You are scum'?

Somebody being wrong doesn't mean they're scum. Look at yourself, you're incredibly wrong but I have a null read on you.

[Human Sequencer]

This is ridiculous. How can you read scum off of such insubstantial posts. What do you read his motivation as? Why do you think he's scum for doing the things he's doing in those posts? I need you to elaborate into your thought process.

[Human Sequencer]

>if you disagree with me or read me as scum you're new and stupid
lol ok

So in post 388 you claim that Copper was scum intentionally trying to lie about you. Considering that Copper wasn't voting you at the time, and ended up voting Mort later, what motivation does scumCopper have for that? He wasn't trying to get a wagon started on you, because he comes back in post 241 voting Mort.

[Human Sequencer]

Mort reads heaps better here.
UNVOTE:

[Human Sequencer]

I've been considering what you told us to remember since post 333.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm still not sure on TwoFace. I don't think pressurizing him will really get us anywhere, and I don't think lynching him is a good idea.
For the record, I still read him pretty neutral.

We really need others to weigh in. People like Chaos, Naomi, Loli and Misa.
TB is of course V/LA.

[Human Sequencer]

This is true. Good pickup.

That's enough to get me on board. I think we'll get a lot more out of this.

VOTE: ThinkBig

[Human Sequencer]

We entice TB into posting more.
We get to see what people think about TB once he becomes the main topic of conversation.
We get to see TB under pressure.

It's a lot better than sitting around and twiddling our thumbs, I believe.

[Human Sequencer]

To twoface. Take a chill pill.

I'm reading up. Response soon.

[Human Sequencer]

You don't have a moral high horse in this situation.
We're all equals. Don't take yourself so seriously.

[Human Sequencer]

Mort, don't worry about it. We all fuck up to varying degrees. Did you ever end up checking out newbie 1744? Check out Gideon, SmoothBlue and Toto on day 1. It happens all the time and all we need to do is move on and learn from our mistakes.

TB's wagon is probably a dead end until he is back from VL//A

Yeah, but once they get back from V/LA they have a lot to answer to.

@Snoop Dog
TC is TownCop from newbie 1744. I don't think the comparison is particularly valid.
Speaking of which, Snoop Dog is a pretty powerful townread for me at the moment.
(Snoop dog is Uzi for those who don't get it)

@Copper It's worth noting that Lohik has only signed up for this game and one other theme game in which his inactivity has also ceased. (I hope this doesn't break the rule about speaking about other games.)
This means your statistic about newbies flaking out of scum roles applies.

Considering that a lot of people are curious about it, I'll explain what I think about Drone.
Read over posts 356 and 349. Drone is speaking for me and defending on my behalf. This could be setup for a scumDrone framing an easy mislynch on me for when he flips red, making use of my question I asked him way back when. This is why I acted antagonistic towards him in post 345.
I don't read him as scum, I was just considering that possibility and created a failsafe in case of that happening later in the game in post 375.
Apart from that one problem I have, I read him as yellow/green. Great terminology by the way. "Yellow" is perfect.

I really read TwoFace as genuine. I never felt that for Jason. He was null all the way.

I really do prefer the 'colourful language' and personality clash. It makes the game more interesting and it's one of the most enjoyable parts of it for me.
I just hope you know TwoFace that I don't mean you any ill will at all.

[Human Sequencer]

Well that's an interesting turn of events. I don't agree, but you're the mod so it's your game, I suppose.
"[1] Human Sequencer - "
??

Fixed. I'll try to contact Nexus regarding the issue on what to do. -Mod

[Human Sequencer]

Also, that was a typo copper, I meant to say 'His activity has ceased in that game too' but it's kinda irrelevant now because she's getting replaced.

[Human Sequencer]

Are you joking?
Sounds like you're actually proud of what you've wrought.

[Human Sequencer]

How is a disagreement over the rules scummy at all?
What has Copper done that is even remotely scummy?
All you've done is fucking argue. How can you correlate 'I don't like him and he's insulting me wah wah wah!' into 'He is scum'?

The reasons you gave for your vote a little while ago were flaky at BEST. How does a personality clash enhance them? If you want Copper's slot lynched, get a case on him and convince others to vote him. If it's reasonable and well written, others will follow.

Grow up. Grow a spine. I'm not in this game to get pissed off at people because they don't agree with me, I want to win.

Holy shit. You're not lynchbait, you're blacklist bait.

I'll stay in this game for the sake of everybody who wants a good game and I couldn't morally handle replacing out but TwoFace, despite seeming town to me, you really need to get your act together bro.

[Human Sequencer]

I don't even know what to say to this. I don't understand how you two don't understand.

Whatever. This whole interaction screams TvTT to me at this point. So it's irrelevant. It makes it a shame we lost Copper over it, but what are we gonna do about it.

I'm all for a push on the TB/Misa wagon. In fact I'd bet there's scum in one of those slots.

Lohik's slot also worries me. Misa wanting a replacement pings me.

[Human Sequencer]

@TwoFace No. I've had enough arguing over something so pedantic and obvious with a VI.
You know you're town. I assume you're town. For fucks sake please drop it before you drive me out of the game too.
Let's find scum.

@Mort I read Copper as really town so far, and TwoFace reads VI through and through.
New players are very likely to flake out of scum slots. This applies to Misa too.

[Human Sequencer]

I feel it is likely that town here will recover we just need to give them a bit of breathing room

Why are you referring to town as a separate entity from yourself?

@TwoFace
I think Copper was correlating up a case based on a lot of different leads, including TB's inactivity and TB's jump on his wagon. I don't think it would have pinged strongly to him were it not for other information to flesh out his case.

[Human Sequencer]

@Mort
Yes.

[Human Sequencer]

@Mort I understand you come from the lens of that other newbie with TwoFace and probably a few games where you made a mistake and was unfairly drilled for it.
But not every game has to be like that.
If you have the time...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=11587
This game from 2009 inspired me to play Mafia because of how much fun every player is having and how fun it is to read.
Also, newbie 1744 was a lot more civil from most of us.

Negativity is probably my biggest weakness right now. I'd love to be a player like spyrex, thesp or naomi, but I just love drilling into people too much, and love being drilled too much.

[Human Sequencer]

I
ANSWERED
YOU

AND THEN YOU CAME BACK CLAIMING THAT TB WASN'T INACTIVE
A PLAYER
ON V/LA
24 POSTS
NOT INACTIVE

[Human Sequencer]

I don't really need to point out the absurdity of your case when it's so fragmented that it barely makes sense to begin with.
I think you might have a point, but I need you to more concisely and succinctly explain what you're trying to say. Notice how the other players are quoting evidence and citing what makes them think the way they do and why they think the way they do? I need you to do that for me to take you seriously. I need you to put more than 0 effort in.
It's 7 AM, I'm going to sleep.

[Human Sequencer]

Mort, Uzi and Chaos are reading town to me. Chaos weaker than the others. Copper's slot reads town to me.

Don't pressure nero too much. He's got essays to catch up to.

no hs has been on my scumdar for a while, the fact that he is avoiding such a simple question doesn't help him though.

Could you please give me a detailed post citing why you believe I'm scum?
You're treating Copper and I as confirmed scum and I don't believe either of us have done enough to warrant that read. I want to understand.

@mort. You have issues with tb using other people's reasons yet you don't balk when HS just sheeps you despite voting you previously. That didn't raise any red flags?

In post 409 Mort made a very good point about a contradiction in TB's actions.
Mort had good logic. It makes sense I would follow that logic. That's consistent with a townie mindset, wouldn't you agree?

[Human Sequencer]

I forgot to mention, TF is reading extremely town to me.

[Human Sequencer]

I really would prefer more pressure on TB.

If push comes to shove I could easily see myself on a Misa lynch today, but it depends on how their replacement acts.

[Human Sequencer]

Hey man.
Your slot got into an argument with TwoFace about dumb semantics.
I'm reading you as town HOLY SHIT AUSBROS
SHITPOST KINGS

The two main suspects at the moment are ThinkBig and Misa's slot. I recommend at least reading over the thread w/ Mort, Copper and Twoface to get a general idea of where you stand in the game.

[Human Sequencer]

In fact, since we have a few people replacing in, I'll do a quick summary.

Creeps got wagoned for being obvscum first, but there was a bit of debate over how obvious it was. Currently I think the general consensus is that he's clearly playing like shit regardless, and his alignment is hard to tell. I don't think he'll reach lylo.
Misa was the secondary wagon. Opinions on her, who has now chosen to replace out, varies heavily. I personally read her as scummy, and wouldn't mind lynching her next to TB. The Misa wagon has kind of survived throughout this whole time.
At this point (post 178), Mort tried to get a wagon started on Copper for a debatably flaky reason, which started a pseudo-wagon on him that TwoFace and ThinkBig jumped on (post 202).
Copper and TwoFace start arguing over what lynchbait means, while Copper deduces that one of the people who jumped on his wagon were likely to be scum (I agree). He first tries to get momentum on Mort, but later starts reading him as town and then switches to ThinkBig. Copper disregards TwoFace as VI, and therefore reads him as town. Drone and I come back from real life stuff and read Mort as scum in his interaction with Copper, and we both vote him. I later read Mort as town and retract my vote. Drone later changes his mind too.
It's worth mentioning that if either Mort or TwoFace flip scum, the other is a very likely scum candidate, but I highly doubt TwoFace will flip scum at this point.
Mort and I agree on TB, and jump on the wagon with Copper. TB has been mostly inactive and V/LA for the entire game so far.
Around page 19 people start posting some readslists, this could be a nice place to read over to get a general idea of what people think of each other. Naomi also posted one a page or so back.
At this point Copper requests a replacement because he disagrees with the rules Key is upholding. At the same time, lohik and misa lurk out.
Now we're pretty much back up to speed.
I've tried to be as objective as possible in this recollection,

ChaosOmega, Uzi and Naomi

, you've all been pretty impartial to what's gone on so far. Do you agree that this is a fair recollection of the events leading up to this point?

@Naomi
I caught this on a reread, forgot to ask earlier
What's 'Vert-slim'?
Also, thanks for the tea.

PS. Wobbuffet
Ignore TwoFace he's like the only person scumreading you to my knowledge.

[Human Sequencer]

An argument over the definition of the word 'Lynchbait' and how that influences each others' reads.

[Human Sequencer]

Creeps got wagoned for being obvscum first, but there was a bit of debate over how obvious it was. Currently I think the general consensus is that he's clearly playing like shit regardless, and his alignment is hard to tell. I don't think he'll reach lylo.

Misa was the secondary wagon. Opinions on her, who has now chosen to replace out, varies heavily. I personally read her as scummy, and wouldn't mind lynching her next to TB. The Misa wagon has kind of survived throughout this whole time.

At this point (post 178), Mort tried to get a wagon started on Copper for a debatably flaky reason, which started a pseudo-wagon on him that TwoFace and ThinkBig jumped on (post 202).

Copper and TwoFace start arguing over what lynchbait means, while Copper deduces that one of the people who jumped on his wagon were likely to be scum (I agree). He first tries to get momentum on Mort, but later starts reading him as town and then switches to ThinkBig. Copper disregards TwoFace as VI, and therefore reads him as town. Drone and I come back from real life stuff and read Mort as scum in his interaction with Copper, and we both vote him. I later read Mort as town and retract my vote. Drone later changes his mind too.

It's worth mentioning that if either Mort or TwoFace flip scum, the other is a very likely scum candidate, but I highly doubt TwoFace will flip scum at this point.
Mort and I agree on TB, and jump on the wagon with Copper. TB has been mostly inactive and V/LA for the entire game so far.

Around page 19 people start posting some readslists, this could be a nice place to read over to get a general idea of what people think of each other. Naomi also posted one a page or so back.
At this point Copper requests a replacement because he disagrees with the rules Key is upholding. At the same time, lohik and misa lurk out.
Now we're pretty much back up to speed.

Made it a little more readable.

[Human Sequencer]

You have problems bro.

Like I said before, I believe that it's blatantly obvious that ThinkBig was inactive at that time and will ignore you if you ask again, because I don't need to answer to a VI.

Wobbuffet just asked you to explain your reasoning on why you scumread him. That's a pretty simple question, we shouldn't have to ask you again and again.

[Human Sequencer]

It seems to me as if your scumreads are primarily centered around who calls you a VI more often.
Can you confirm or deny this?

[Human Sequencer]

I would really rather keep the replacements to a minimum.
Please would you stick it out for the rest of us?

[Human Sequencer]

The game isn't a personal playground for you. We're all trying to enjoy ourselves and play the game-- Making that claim damages the sanctity of that.
It's not about bailing if you don't get your way. It's about convincing others to believe you with charisma and finesse.

Would you please reconsider your viewpoint?

[Human Sequencer]

I understand that. I think that's reasonable, to try and have your top two scumreads lynched.

However I don't think it's fair to replace out if neither I or Wobbuffet are lynched. Wouldn't you agree?

[Human Sequencer]

I would usually agree with a policy lynch, the exception is that I'm pretty convinced that TwoFace is town.

TB and Misa both have a much higher chance of flipping red for me, and in the case of Misa recontextualizes a lot more of the game based on her interactions with others.

[Human Sequencer]

Never ascribe malice to what can adequately be described with ineptitude.

[Human Sequencer]

@Naomi

Human Sequencer - Also think they are green. they are pretty much like Vert-slim.

[Human Sequencer]

Look guys, if we're delving into policy lynch territory, I think Creeps would be a far better alternative to TwoFace.
The consensus seems to be that TwoFace is VI. Town.
We're unsure of Creeps' alignment, and he's also only going to be a liability as well.
It looks like TwoFace no longer wants to be in this game, and the players don't want twoface in this game. If we lynch Creeps, that gives the us the nightphase to find a replacement for TwoFace, and gives whatever replacements we do find for the other players time to read up as well.

I understand this can be flipped into red trying to protect a fellow red, but that isn't the case. I just really want to avoid lynching pretty obvious town at all costs.

If push comes to shove I suppose I'll join along, but it really is a last resort for me. Creeps, TB and Misa's slot are all much better options in my eyes.

[Human Sequencer]

So thoughtfully Copper replaced out, HS willing to so, and so do I.
I don't think Key deserves this.

I'm not dropping out. I'll see this game to the end. I implore everybody else to as well, to the best of their ability.

[Human Sequencer]

I agree though. Key doesn't deserve this. I'm so sorry mod that this had to be your first game to mod on the site.

I meant what I said in my PM. You can do it!

Thank you >///< - Mod

[Human Sequencer]

Alright, I'm inclined to agree with you Naomi. I'll wait until more players chime in, but I think a twoface lynch is inevitable at this point.

I tried.

[Human Sequencer]

Are you claiming vig?

[Human Sequencer]

Guys, I think TwoFace is claiming vig. He's constantly asking to last until day 2.

[Human Sequencer]

Shit.

[Human Sequencer]

It's you or me.

That claim puzzles me.

TwoFace, please confirm, are you claiming vig?

[Human Sequencer]

Are you fucking joking me?

[Human Sequencer]

Twoface, if I was scum, I wouldn't even be considering nightkilling you as a vig. I'd be doing all I could to keep you in the game because you would be the WORST VIG EVER.

[Human Sequencer]

Naomi, I need more tea.

[Human Sequencer]

VOTE: TwoFace

[Human Sequencer]

Just ignore him and wait until the others come around to get rid of him.

[Human Sequencer]

UNVOTE:
I agree.

[Human Sequencer]

Funny this comes on the heel of TwoFace's best post all game. I could've used that pages ago.
But holy shit having him as a vig would be RIP.

This whole DP has been a mess.

We need to let the thread cool off, let our replacements both be found and settle into the thread and catch up.

[Human Sequencer]

I don't think it's legitimate to scumread literally everybody onboard with the policy lynch.

I do however think it's incredibly likely scum jumped on board, just like how Copper was talking about it being likely that scum was part of who jumped on board of his wagon way back when.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm with Toto.
We're not lynching anybody until we have 13 players playing the game.

[Human Sequencer]

Nobody was complaining about him being replaced.
We reached a consensus and an agreement.

[Human Sequencer]

But you're the mod I suppose. It's your game.

I agree with you TwoFace. This game is a joke.

[Human Sequencer]

Yeah, this is like unprecedentedly silly on our part.
It's incredibly unlucky of you to be placed in such a bad position in your first game.

[Human Sequencer]

I didn't want to policy lynch TwoFace because I read him as very town, but I did want to policy lynch Creeps because I have no idea what his alignment is. Therefore, we have a higher chance of flipping scum in my eyes.

Thankfully, we're out of policy lynch territory and I'm 100% willing to give TwoFace another chance. Especially if he posts more like he has been recently.

I don't want to really advance the game any more with so many people absent or getting replaced.

[Human Sequencer]

@TwoFace
That's what a case is. When you correlate everything you have on somebody and gather all of your thoughts in one place so it's easy, succinct and concise for others to read, like I did in post 334.

If you're trying to convince others of something, you need to put that extra effort in. You can't expect everybody to do that work for you. At the very least, you need to directly link them to it instead of asking them to dig through your ISO. It's a lot easier to remember when you said something if you're the one who said it.

No ill will, no antagonism, no hatred.

[Human Sequencer]

If you're not willing to put that time and effort in, perhaps Mafia isn't the game for you.

I didn't complain to the mod, and I was against a policy lynch until I felt it was inevitable.

[Human Sequencer]

@TwoFace
I didn't mean it that way.

@Creeps
Lol what
Creeps soft-claimed?
This is news to me.
Are you talking about post 199?

[Human Sequencer]

Oh post 306 nvm
Well considering that literally nobody else picked up on it either I'm not so sure if I can be blamed for missing that, and if you bought that up I would have rescinded that statement as well.

[Human Sequencer]

No he didn't...?

I can't find it, where was it?

[Human Sequencer]

Toto and Creeps are either masons or are so in synchronization with each other that they know precisely how to fuck with me.

There's no way I missed both Drone and Copper saying it after going through both of their ISOs twice.

Would one of you link it, please?

[Human Sequencer]

I would Claim but that is useless for me as my role really dosen't really scream 'town'

... yeah that was my other reason, when he said he was so nervous he did not want to post he reminded me of Gideon (for

HS

, Toto and Chaos).

Yeah, you missed that after going 2x through Copper's ISO.

I thought this was just referring to him acting scared to post and accidentally getting himself scumread in the way that Gideon did, not relating that to them both being PRs. Once you point it out, it becomes incredibly obvious though.

@Mort's post 739
Well it was 'Policy Lynch Territory' because it seemed like we were on a direct course to policy lynching TwoFace, who I am convinced is town.
A lynch on Creeps would be considered a policy lynch because most people on the wagon wouldn't be scumreading him, and my main leverage point was that he's useless to town as he is and difficult to read for all of us.
The town motivation is to not lynch somebody I've townread, and to instead lynch somebody I'm not sure about.
Sure, I recognize it was a botched attempt and pretty hamfisted in the way I put it, but at the time I was desperate not to lynch town.

As I said in 614, I'd prefer a lynch on Misa or a wagon on TB over policy lynching, and I reference that in the post that you're scrutinizing.

And as a final clarification to why I think Creeps would be a policy lynch:
Creeps is acting incredibly scummy seemingly on purpose. This makes him incredibly hard to read, and a liability later in the game as I said in post 340 in reply to Copper.

Most of this becomes a stupid idea if I know that Creeps has soft claimed. I think it's silly to imply that I suggested this as scum knowing that Creeps has softclaimed to try and nab the role. That would be very stupid. So the only options left are HS is Town and either knew Creeps' softclaim or didn't know Creeps' softclaim, or HS is scum and didn't know Creeps' softclaim.
I know I'm town, but it's up to you to decide.

@Mort's post 761
"649 is TF claiming vig!?!? says potentially scum!HS. scum!TF if you're claiming vig you won't die!"
TF has implied he'll vig me tonight (if I'm reading the situation correctly). If this is the truth and TF is scum, then D2 I will be alive and TF will be alive.
scumTF claiming vig would be horrible for scumHS, because then scumHS would have to explain why they're still alive every single day with a supposed vigTF aiming at him, and if one of them is lynched from that then the other is immediately incredibly suspicious and must be lynched. Therefore it would be scumHS' highest priority to stop TF from claiming vig and ending his life if he does, which doesn't make sense because I unvote shortly after when I'm informed that TF is being replaced.
I think TF and my interaction is at the very least NAI considering that this post confirms that my problem was with TwoFace, not the slot. Which I'm fairly sure most people should have picked up by now.

[Human Sequencer]

Sure, I recognize it was a botched attempt and pretty hamfisted in the way I put it, but at the time I was desperate not to lynch town.

Creeps is a better PL because we didn't know his alignment, and we thought TF was green.

I suppose I could have just said 'I don't want to policy lynch TF because I read him as town', and I did do that, but I was under the impression that it wouldn't have swayed town's perspective in the slightest, so instead I posted what I logically saw as a better alternative.

[Human Sequencer]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you, we're two different people with different mindsets.

What I said is still the truth, though.

How is the town motivation illogical, and what scum motivation makes more sense?

[Human Sequencer]

I don't think obvtown lynchbait was the general consensus, at the very least it's not how I read Creeps at all.
TF on the other hand I read as very town, and assumed others did too. His towny play sure was nonexistent, though, I'll give yo that.

[Human Sequencer]

It wasn't an emotional towny play. It was a logical, thought out play.

In post 816, you just gave a valid reason as to why I could be town. I don't even really know who the leading towns are. I assumed it was me, but that's probably just because of my massive egocentrism.

If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.

[Human Sequencer]

Except for the fact that I fell right in line with most of Copper's beliefs before he replaced out.
I've been accused of sheeping, and now I'm being accused of being isolationist.

[Human Sequencer]

They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them.

I don't think this is a scumtell. I think it's just TwoFace's personality. NAI at best.

[Human Sequencer]

Read my post 807.
It wasn't my human nature to immaturely snap back at my accusers. I logically explained my perspective and laid bare what I thought at the time.

No antagonism.

[Human Sequencer]

A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

And this is my second game, as I said a while ago.
I wasn't aware at the time, because in my first game both roles were hardclaimed D1 (and town went on to win!), but I'll take that knowledge (role fishing=bad for town) and put it in my databanks for next game.

It's obvious why in hindsight. Sorry about that.

[Human Sequencer]

...or scum!HS did know about the claim but pretended not to know.

Well, that was the crux of my post. That would be just stupid for scumHS to do, and I'd like to think I'm misguided at worst, as opposed to stupid.

Spoiler: Replying to Toto and explaining reads

If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.

I don't see the scum motivation here unless you want to create post flip associations. Can you explain your reads?

TF

is just too flippant and noncaring to be scum. I think he'd put even just a little more effort in as scum, as opposed to what he's doing in this game. VI read through and through. (I don't mean to offend)

Uzi

is reading very genuine to me, and every time he posts he has something valid to say. It reads to me as if he's really posting what he thinks and not holding anything back. It's worth noting he was the first one to pin Misa's ragepost as fake, though TF did recognise it as 'unnecessary'. Mostly it's just the fact that his reads just are how they are, and he doesn't window dress them.

Mort

, again, genuine. I feel like the way his playstyle adapted after his conflict with Copper was very organic, and especially lately in the game he's been trying to gamesolve pretty much every post.

TB

hasn't acted consistently. Her posts are very 'safe'. Her post 169 is the first red flag for me, in which she sheeps Uzi's perspective after realizing that it's town accepted (Uzi sure didn't get any flak for that opinion) and then goes on to poke holes in a pincushion which town can and did all agree was playing scummy as hell. This is an easy way to look like you're gamesolving when you're not.

What really pricked me up is when Mort pointed out post 373. Here, TB explains that she chose to vote Copper in her earlier post because copper 'Twisted the Lynchbait discussion'. Now what we've all established is that the lynchbait discussion actually happened about 15 posts after TB's vote, but what really struck me is that in that same post TB chooses to agree with Copper on the lynchbait discussion.

Sorry copper. Scum can't be lynchbait cause the goal is to lynch scum.

This is objectively false.

There's also the inconsistencies between her vote and readslists, which has already been talked about. Again, I didn't come to this conclusion by myself, it was bought to my attention by Mort I think it was?
She then V/LAs for 300 posts.

Misa

is a new player-- She's only played two newbies before this one. The chance that new players replace out of scum slots is far higher than new players replacing out of town slots. Normally this wouldn't be enough for me, but she was town in both of those games and beyond that, she hasn't exactly acted completely cleanly in thread. A lot of her early posts read manufactured and fake to me, not only the allcaps one. Furthermore, her last post was on the 6th, so I don't think it's unlikely that she came back around about the time when we were all posting readslists, a lot of which she showed up red on. I think this would be enough to scare a budding scum away.

TB is far higher on the scumlist than Misa for me, though.

@Mort You're right, it is a completely different discussion, but in my mind it wasn't a discussion, it was just the smarter move. I thought that if I laid my logic bare, everybody else would agree with me that Creeps is the better policy lynch to make. Obviously it was dumb, but I didn't think through the mindset of everybody who was trying to PL twoface. I was playing fast and loose and now I'm paying the price.

I might go to sleep any time now, and I don't doubt there's at least one other person who suspects me enough to put me on L-1 and ask me to claim while I'm away. In the interests of keeping the game moving in that happenstance,

I'm claiming Vanilla Townie.

[Human Sequencer]

Yo.
Internet is down, on my mother's mob data.
Just checking in to let you guys know the situation and givd the thread a quick read.
It should be back up tomorrow, so I should be able to properly post on 24h
If there's anything you want me to answer all quick and dirty like you got me for maybe 1h

[Human Sequencer]

You could say the same about literally anybody else on the TF policy lynch wagon. I was vocally against it and tried to come up with a better solution, shouldn't that clear me relative to the others?

[Human Sequencer]

@Mort You've misunderstood what I'm trying to say, because I misunderstood what you were trying to say before that. Sorry.
I thought you said 'You're right' instead of 'If you're right'

Toto, you've clearly learned a whole lot since our last game, whereas I've gotten overconfident and sloppy. Either that or the shift in your player meta indicates scum, but I'm apprehensive about that because you're reading somewhat town to me.
Addressing post 922.
In this post I wasn't rolefishing. I was moreso thinking about how if everybody townreads Copper, he's essentially confirmed town, which is bad to the mafia. Therefore, that makes him a good target to kill (confirmed townies are bad for mafia), and if he by chance happened to be a PR, then we lose something very valuable. I don't think it proves knowledge that's applicable to this game.

I'm curious though,

@ChaosOmega

, what rolefishing are you talking about in newbie 1744? Toto couldn't find any and I can't recall any.

[Human Sequencer]

BTW anybody scumreading Mort is just wrong at this point.
Unless my radar is waaay fucking off

[Human Sequencer]

I voted TF because he was the dominant wagon at the time, and I didn't see it changing anytime soon. 'PL is inevitable' was my vote on creeps, 'TF lynch is inevitable' was my vote on TF.

If push comes to shove I suppose I'll join along, but it really is a last resort for me. Creeps, TB and Misa's slot are all much better options in my eyes.

I didn't just make it up, I did signpost that I'd join if TF's wagon didn't stop gaining steam.

[Human Sequencer]

Naomi's interaction with Twoface doesn't read scummy to me.

[Human Sequencer]

There's been a LOT of misrepping and confusion in this thread. I implore everybody to carefully check the source of their information, and all of the information they bring forth, to remove confusion and aid us in sorting the truth from the lies.

We need more posts like this and less posts like this. Being vague and confusing isn't AI, but it's incredibly difficult to follow a thread that's filled with people quoting half truths and putting forth baseless conjecture.

This goes for everybody, not just Mort and Wobbs. Toto in particular has been fucking incredible at this. I'm sorry I was so hard on you last game bro.

[Human Sequencer]

I should add, a thread that's hard to follow helps Scum more than Town.

[Human Sequencer]

Toto in particular has been fucking incredible at this. I'm sorry I was so hard on you last game bro.

Are you being nice to me for realz or are you just trying to gain my trust?

I'm just really surprised.

Fixed -Mod

[Human Sequencer]

Wobbs has been really scummy. Shame Copper was so clean earlier. Null read altogether.
This game feels like a ghosttown with so many people away.

Let it be known that TwoFace stated intent to be on my wagon at this point. It might come in handy later on in the game.
Funny how the more reasonable he gets the less powerful my townread is. Still definitely a townread.

@TwoFace
Those 'I would be on your wagon but I'm not gonna because ...' things are eehhhhh. Should be left for the person hammering in my opinion.

Although usually infolynches are stupid it is D1 and I'm feeling a little matyr-like today and it's becoming increasingly difficult to defend myself the more conflated, vague and semantic my offenses become. If I'm lynched and flip green, please remember post 845 and closely analyze those on my wagon, -especially- those with flip flop reasoning. Except Mort. Mort's flip flop reasoning makes him even townier to me.

[Human Sequencer]

Oh I missed that twice Mort, I'll reply to that in a sec, sorry

[Human Sequencer]

On the Naomi/Mort interaction, as per Mort's request.
Post 959 seems reasonable to me, I don't agree with pretty much everything she's saying but I don't think her logic is flawed, her logic just follows different rules than mine. She rises up a very good point about TF and Mort's communication, but it's a point Copper and I made eons ago. She's more forward with it though, and hunting by association, which is a big no-no.

Post 964 is even more reasonable, because I actually agree with Mort. Mort should keep in mind that being on a lot of wagons can be scum indicative, so it's reasonable for others to scum read him as such. He mentions a good point about recency bias, which I think everybody should have picked up about Mort's playstyle by now, and should factor in to how you read him.

Post 998 is absolutely in line with Naomi's meta and is NAI at worst. It's clear TwoFace's question is a loaded question, so Naomi replied saying she's aware of it and bringing light to the fact that what she said is exactly what she'd say as either green or red in that situation.

[Human Sequencer]

She didn't make any 180s on Mort. Her opinion organically fluctuated over the course of the game. She voted Mort, stopped voting Mort because she liked his content more, then voted him again after doing some analysis. She then changed her mind and unvoted because the wagon wasn't going anywhere.

Where did she ever say she townread him?

[Human Sequencer]

I'd respond with what I think (I disagree, for perspective), but it'd require me to have to go into detail about how I interpreted Naomi's thought process, which is messy. So I'll just leave it to her to defend.
Liking your posts more.

[Human Sequencer]

Yo arcangel.
You're looking pretty red at the moment, I do hate to say.
Good luck.

[Human Sequencer]

Woah, really? Holy shit, I've been copying the URL and chopping half of it off for ages.
1075
^test

Also, @mort I gave you my thoughts on you and naomi recently.

[Human Sequencer]

I'd much, much rather see her push another lynch than defend her push of mine.

Yeah this. We've got a lot of information now and that deadline is something we now have to consider. We should all be working on sifting through the info we have and getting a target or more sorted.

[Human Sequencer]

@Mort
I know this goes against what I said just then, but I'm waiting for the V/LA wave to end and I'm waiting for replacements to catch up. Also, voting for people who just replaced in makes me feel bad.

If it weren't for that, I'd probably park my vote on TB's (ArcAngel) slot.

Let it be known that if a wagon picks up for any of these slots, I'd be on board for a lynch;
Kamelot, ArcAngel, Creeps
I could probably be convinced over on Wobbs and Nero, but I'm not entirely sure. It'd have to be a good case.

[Human Sequencer]

>inb4 kamelot, arcangel, creeps scumteam
You heard it here first folks!

this post is a joke [/post]

[Human Sequencer]

fugg

[Human Sequencer]

@mod don't edit that

better for comedic effect

[Human Sequencer]

Wobbs isn't a green read. All of my green read comes from Copper. Wobbs looks like a fool to be honest, his misrepping is horrible. This is why I'd need a case.
The copper greenread is mostly because of the effort he put into gamesolving.
He acted consistently within himself, as in he never had a contradiction of motive or otherwise. His opinions logically changed when he found reason to (see post 159) and in his argument with you and TwoFace, he picked his side and stuck with it.
His analysis of scum likely opportunistically jumping on his wagon is very credible, and my read of his argument with you and TF screams TvTT to me.
Posts like 429 and [post]463] just don't come from scum in my eyes, especially the latter which is filled with logically consistent reads that coincide with what he's expressed recently.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm with Uzi on that. Ending D1 no lynch is just not nice.

[Human Sequencer]

@Key That's fair enough then.

@TwoFace Yeah, but this is not one one of those situations.

[Human Sequencer]

I don't think that's what he was trying to say.

[Human Sequencer]

Not lylo.

[Human Sequencer]

This reads TvT to me. Road could be scum but I don't see any way Mort could be scum.

@Road, when you read over the game, you'll see me voting and pushing on Mort for similar reasons you are here. I think you'll get a feel for how he's playing and where he's coming from after you read over it. I scumread it at first too.

[Human Sequencer]

Replacements: The Thread

Come on guys, we should be better than this.

[Human Sequencer]

Yo shadowstep. You replaced into an enigma. Good luck reading up.

[Human Sequencer]

596
779
Two different interpretations of how the game went, both a little outdated.

[Human Sequencer]

This reads TvT to me. Road could be scum but I don't see any way Mort could be scum.

The conversation seems TvT. Road's slot could be red.
I realize that it might be confusing due to the way I wrote it, but come on guys I literally wrote right there 'Road could be scum'. I'm still on board for a road lynch if it picks up steam.

@MOD, Votecount when you get some time?

Mort, a lot of Kamelot's criticisms about your play makes a lot of sense to me. Obviously I don't agree with them being red aligned, but I do think you've let slip a few mistakes that could be easily misinterpreted.

One of the few things I agree with you on is that HS has been obvtown posting./quote]
Read this from the perspective of another player. I understand that you were confused and torn on the vote, and still trying to sort my slot out. I saw that. Kamelot didn't. In her eyes, it's just you being on a wagon you read as obvtown. This is where the conversation slipped into argumentative accusations.

Post 1153 isn't a misrep, because you've said that exact thing before many times. I'm assuming she read your iso and picked that up at this point, because she was strongly sring you.
It makes perfect sense that Kamelot wouldn't understand your mind and gut having two differing opinions-- Just read her sig. That should explain everything for you.

[Human Sequencer]

Spoiler:

This reads TvT to me. Road could be scum but I don't see any way Mort could be scum.

I'm sorry, but saying a conversation looks TvT is meaningless if your read on one of the players is null-Red. Actually, saying a conversation is TvT makes other people want to disregard it as a pointless argument, which this is not. What is your actual read on Road beyond 'could be scum'? Do they look Green motivated to you?

Well, it's not meaningless at all. That's how I read the conversation. I disregarded it as a pointless argument because it read to me like two players tunneling into each other for bad reasons-- Which I stand by. You summed up my read perfectly. Null-red. Most of my scumread comes from Misa, though. Kamelot reads kinda green in how frank she is in putting her opinions forward-- which is why the argument reads TvT to me. Kamelot is more experienced than Misa though, which is why I'm still suspicious of the slot and wouldn't mind it gone if push comes to shove.

Spoiler:

One of the few things I agree with you on is that HS has been obvtown posting.

Read this from the perspective of another player. I understand that you were confused and torn on the vote, and still trying to sort my slot out. I saw that. Kamelot didn't. In her eyes, it's just you being on a wagon you read as obvtown. This is where the conversation slipped into argumentative accusations.

I had come up with a big argument to show why this is always a misreading from Road, it only makes ANY sense because Road hasn't read the thread, and that Road's trying to make this into a case is extremely forced - but then I realized that you are being purposefully obtuse here and I don't feel like engaging with it. The conversation did not slip into anything. Read the words without prejudging where each player is coming from. Hint - what type of faction would do this?

I'm not being purposefully obtuse. I meant exactly what I said. You are voting somebody you've recently read as obvtown. I know why because I was here the whole time, and Kamelot wasn't. Ergo, she has a different perspective which paints you in a scum light. We agree, it only makes sense if Kamelot hadn't read the thread. That's kinda the point I was trying to make there. It's not a forced case, that's a pretty good scumread. Voting somebody you read as obvtown.
How is that purposefully obtuse?

Spoiler:

I'm still on board for a road lynch if it picks up steam.

So many levels of no. If you want a lynch, you have to vote for it. You are not in a position to sit back and say 'hmmm, which lynch do I like? Is it Road? Or is it ___?' Just that sentence should show why holding your vote until there's a wagon is Red! motivated.

Well you'll see that in that very post I asked for a votecount to gauge where the wagon was at, and decide whether to join in. I never said I wanted a Kamelot lynch. I said I'd join if it came close to lynch and I wouldn't mind it happening today.
The green motivation here is that although I don't mind a Kamelot lynch, I prefer and kinda want a TB/ArcAngel lynch. The reason I'm not on that wagon is because they just came into the game, and I don't want to push them too hard just yet, before they've had the chance to understand where everybody stands in the game.

Spoiler:

Post 1153 isn't a misrep, because you've said that exact thing before many times. I'm assuming she read your iso and picked that up at this point, because she was strongly sring you.
It makes perfect sense that Kamelot wouldn't understand your mind and gut having two differing opinions-- Just read her sig. That should explain everything for you.

This one's especially good.

HS' first point

: 1153 isn't a misrep because I've said exactly that many times. Road

actually read my ISO

and discovered it.

HS, are you serious? It is a misrep. Road - Mort has been saying that HS is obvtown. Mort - HS has been making posts that look obvtown. You see the difference? And you see how one is a read, and the other is an observation about recent post content? And you see how Road is absolutely either wrong or misrepping? And you see how one leads to a vote and one leads to questions (such as - Mort, how do you actually feel about HS. Too bad Road didn't ask this and didn't believe/even read my answer)? And you see why a Red player would pick up on little town inconsistencies and disguise them in theory as actual Red behavior? Why on Earth would a Green player refuse to read the thread and decide to vote for me over this, instead of any of the other actual Red candidates? Don't forget they voted Toto and then asked us all to tell THEM why they voted Toto...

|Obvtown|

Noun

Obviously town.

If you're reading my posts as obviously town, then it's obvious that I'm town.
This is semantic and it risks dipping into copper argument territory again.
The point is that the difference between 'Your posts look obvtown' and 'I read you as obvtown' does exist, but is minute and easy to miss. This is amplified when you consider that Kamelot hasn't read the thread. Kamelot. Please read the thread.

Spoiler:

HS' second point

: Road's sig should show why they don't believe in a Green gut read and Red head read.

1. that head/gut stuff was a simplification of reasoning I actually explained 2. Road's sig has nothing to do with this situation. In the heat of passion I voted you and Red! read you. In the cold eye of logic, I Red! read you. The more recent struggle I am having was from your pre-Road posts and, while I said it was gut, it's actually logic. More accurate is that you did things that I think would more likely come from Green than Red. But post-Road I am quickly losing faith. It's also hilarious to say 'Of course Green! Road wouldn't understand your thing you said - even their sig explains why!' Why are you defending Road, who should be defending themselves, with reasoning that doesn't even come from the game?

In the heat of passion your gut feeling told you that I was town. Your body was telling you no. No? I guess not. I misunderstood the situation. That's how I read those posts, though.
It's not hilarious to say that. That sig, I assume at least, is a representation of how she prefers to play. It's not about just what the sig says, it's about how that represents her playstyle. Similar to Naomi's metapost at the start of this thread. As you said before though, road's sig has nothing to do with this situation once you explain that it wasn't a thinking over feeling thing, but just a thinking thing.

I'm 'defending Road' because you literally asked me to.

You think Road vs me is TvT...

Let it be known that if a wagon picks up for any of these slots, I'd be on board for a lynch;
Kamelot, ArcAngel, Creeps

Can you explain why you think Road's part is town? To change from then to now I feel that Road must have done something real Green! motivated. Were Road, ArcAngel, and Creeps your Red! reads?

Like I said though, totally on board for a road lynch. I'm just describing my thoughts on that particular interaction between you and her because as I said, you literally asked me to.

VOTE: Road Kamelot
I really hope we can murderball TB/Arc tomorrow.

[Human Sequencer]

Glad I don't have to worry about all this mess considering I already claimed VT
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Human Sequencer]

What Road is doing is misrepping my read altogether (saying HS is obvtown but logically scum is not what I'm doing), and you're saying that is somehow explained by Road's sig.

That's how she (and I) misinterpreted it.
Or at least I assume so.
This is me explaining my reads on her. Like I said earlier, I don't like to speak for how I interpret others' thoughts, because it's icky. I only did it because I was asked to.

[Human Sequencer]

He's not.
He's implying that unclaimed VTs pretend to have a role too.

I'll get around to responding to you soon, Mort.

[Human Sequencer]

You're not understanding. You said the argument was TvT. I asked you how Road's part looked town. Your explanation of that bit was not something that Road said. It cannot be a basis for saying Road's part looked town, because it was not part of what Road said.

You're not understanding.
Kamelot's sig and therefore, what I interpret her personality as reinforces what I think of her possible townie motive in that argument, even though that is based off of a misunderstanding and having her not caught up.

"Gee, who knew that someone could say another player looks town in one place but still is scum."
I never said otherwise. What you thought was me saying otherwise, was me interpreting Kamelot's thoughts.

[Human Sequencer]

[quote="In post 1224, MortFeld"If Road maintains the accusation after catching up, then I'll know it's Red! motivated.[/quote]
I agree, unless she's changed her mind on why she scumreads you.

[Human Sequencer]

What's 'Green!' and 'Red!'?
Is it just green+ and red+?

[Human Sequencer]

I'm not sure if I addressed her town reading HS but if I haven't, here we go. HS has been posting very town like lately but that is because he's been given the time do so. As in, there hasn't been enough constant pressure there so it's very easy for one to sit back and plan how you're going to dig yourself out of hole when you know you're not under any pressure. No one wanted to put him at L-1 and we have had two big distractions from the wagon in Naomi's terrible push on Mort and the back and forth between him and Mort.

Except TwoFace was willing to put me at L-1 the entire time, he was only waiting for replacements to catch up and I felt like I was going to be lynched at any moment the entire time.
I would still call that pressure.

If we lynch road today I really hope we can murderball arc tomorrow.

[Human Sequencer]

Not in my mind. I was ready to die to be honest.

No, you're not, but she shares TBs slot and I'm just really convinced that slot is scum at this point.

[Human Sequencer]

Kamelot, have you read over the whole game so far?

I'll respond to other stuff soon.

[Human Sequencer]

For what is worth, I think HS's might have been trying to pocket me. I didn't like the fact that they were calling me an imbecile every other post in our newbie and then here I'm suddenly their bro and an excellent player. Also why are you singling me out here?

Well, your play is magnitudes better here. You're much more thought out. It felt like in 1744 you were just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff, and saying things for the sake of saying things. I kinda just wrote you off as VI all game and you came up town at the end.

Here you're an active player of the game. You say things for actual reasons and they're effecting the gameflow.
Besides, what do I gain from 'pocketing' you? What somebody thinks of you shouldn't influence your read of them, look at Uzi and Mort, they were proponents of my lynch but I still strongly townread them.

HS, is this true? Can both of you elaborate on this situation? its esp important bc i could def see Toto scum, but this needs to be explained

My first game, newbie 1744, Toto acted like a fool and I was really annoyed at him. I kept talking down to him all game. Here, his playstyle has evolved and he's playing a lot smarter.
This could indicate scum, but I don't have enough other evidence to support that yet.

[Human Sequencer]

But like, the playstyle switch is night and day. Surely

@ChaosOmega

can confirm this for me, he replaced into the game.

Or you could skim the game yourself.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68535

[Human Sequencer]

On vacation, V/LA until Monday.

Isn't it only recently monday in US?

I have faith.

[Human Sequencer]

Before you all jump on my for buddying Chaos like you did for Drone and is happening for Toto, I have faith because he pulled through in our last game and he's on the normal game review group.

[Human Sequencer]

I mean, obviously the answer is no. Why did you feel the need to make a pre-response like that?

Because it seems whenever I so much as mention another player, I'm accused of buddying and a scumteam is settled...

The point is that you only switched your attitude towards me until I after I pushed your wagon. how is not that suspicious? And your playstyle has changed multiple times IN THIS game depending on your position. How do you explain that?

No I didn't. I wasn't dismissive of you this game at all. It was only when I realized your work on my wagon that I realized how much better you'd become.
It's not suspicious because what's the scum motivation?
My playstyle hasn't changed at all. That's just a lie.
UNVOTE:

[Human Sequencer]

Finally a wagon I can completely get behind.

VOTE: ArcAngel

@Nero, votes outside of votetags aren't counted by this mod.

[Human Sequencer]

411
As soon as I found reason to, I tried to. It didn't go anywhere, and other stuff happened that took the focus of the game away.

[Human Sequencer]

I really want this flip right now.

I don't see how you can read TB as anything but complete red. I'm asking you to explain so that I can understand.

[Human Sequencer]

The way TB posts early in the game reads manufactured to me. Dishonest. This is a gut feel, but it's definitely enforcing my reasoning.

169 echoes what Uzi had already said and gotten away with, without actually adding anything to the table. The scum motivation is that this is an easy way for her to look like she's contributing information and scumhunting without actually doing either of those. She then makes an empty jab at Creeps, which I've already talked about. Creeps' posting was obviously a mess. Poking holes in it is what town had already been doing the entire time, again, TB knows that this won't draw suspicion because it's already been done before. This is an easy way for her to look like she's scumhunting, again, when really she's just poking holes in swiss cheese.

In 180 TB does similar. They reflect upon to town something that is obviously correct and cannot be argued (Mislynches are bad) and mirrors the perspective Naomi took in 134, for which Naomi caught no flak. They then make an empty jab at Mort's preceding post, despite him explaining his reasoning in that very post. Something important here-- one of TB's reasonings for voting Misa is post 77, on which she comments. But this post came from eons ago, from before TB was even in the game. They only decided to comment on it when they were asked to explain their vote, which came later. Translation: TB only formulated an opinion on why she votes Misa after she was asked to, and when she does, she mirrors the 'safe' perspective Naomi already mentioned. The scum motivation for voting Misa in the first place was that town viewed the slot as generally scummy, and it was a very safe vote to make, along with Creeps, who was her other target at the time.

207
Notice that TB townreads the two people whose perspective they pilfered before.
Beyond that, she mirrors the perspective of TwoFace and Mort before her, wondering about the Drone question. Again, a perspective that has shown to be non-combative in the thread. Then she calls for activity of people who have been inactive. Really safe play, nobody can argue that we want those people to post more.

They jumped on the Copper wagon without explaining why, only explaining later when they were asked to. As Copper has pointed out, one of the three people who opportunistically jumped on his wagon is very likely scum, and I'm willing to put a lot of faith int hat claim. Mort and TF both read obvtown to me, which leaves TB, whose vote is the least well justified anyway.

As I explained in post 845, TB agreed with Copper on the lynchbait discussion, and then later decided to vote Copper for his part in the lynchbait discussion. Furthermore, as Mort has pointed out, their reasoning to vote Copper came about 15 posts after they voted Copper. Translation: TB only had to decide on why they thought Copper was scum after they were asked to.

I only just realized this now, actually.

TB, if that game is becoming increasingly difficult for you by the day, replace out.

I think that's only fair for you guys and for town. /replace requested as I really don't know how to play or what to do.

I think that's only fair for you guys | and for town.

This could be a scumslip, but I'm not willing to put too much faith into it.

The final point is that, like I said in post 845, newbies replace out of scum slots more often because they get overwhelmed and don't know what to do. What does it look like happened to TB?

This is my logic laid bare. If you can't agree with me, help me understand why not.

[Human Sequencer]

You should also read the game instead of listening to others and letting them bias you.

The fact that you're so convinced on me as scum that you're not even bothering to read the thread before determining that I still deserve the lynch should be all the proof we need to ignore you entirely.
Infallibility isn't possible with humans.

Still townreading TF to heck though.

[Human Sequencer]

>my reads are based on a player's interactions at the start of the game and nothing else
lol ok

[Human Sequencer]

Thanks :^)

[Human Sequencer]

I feel a lot better about Kamelot. Still could be scum, but it's getting increasingly less likely.

Shadow step is still an enigma. Null read.

We really need to get a wagon together. Town is stagnating. I don't see how anybody can read TB as green and all Arc has done is try and flip a wagon back on me.

[Human Sequencer]

Drone hasn't really pinged me.
Mort and Kamelot, I trust your greeniness enough, would you both explain the case to me?

Road keeps getting greener in my eyes. Maybe it's her avatar distracting me...
Do you have any alts, Kamelot?

I still really want to murderball Arc. Especially after her vote on me.

'Nah, this is the wrong place to look. It's either HS/Road or Drone. Pretty sure of it.'
I really hate to think we're set to lynch two townies in a row.

[Human Sequencer]

All I see is a bunch of 'TB is always inactive guys' and 'I don't scumread him'.
Am I missing something obvious?

[Human Sequencer]

I do understand your logic in a lot of what you've said, but I can't agree and I stand by my interpretation of his play.

It's definitely worth considering, and I'd already mulled over the possibility myself but I just don't think it's as likely as TB is scum.

Right now we have a chance that TBs slot could be absolutely scum (my interpretation) or could be nervous newbie (your interpretation), and in my eyes there's just nobody else that has a chance to flip like that. I have a few strong green reads, but no real strong scumreads apart from this.

I know it's a different perspective for you, because you scumread me, Drone and Kamelot, all of which seem like better lynches in your eyes. I don't have those reads.

[Human Sequencer]

Arc flipping green isn't the end of the world to me. In that situation, I just go through my not-greenreads and rank them from scummiest to least scummiest and how they interacted with the arc wagon.

Much more interesting is looking at the people on arcs wagon if she flips green, just as it would be for anybody else.

[Human Sequencer]

Mort, I believe in you and your ability to find the scum after I flip or after Road flips or etc, but I don't believe in your ability to convince the rest of town or survive through the nightkills even if you get on the right tack.

[Human Sequencer]

Finally a wagon I can completely get behind.

VOTE: ArcAngel

@Nero, votes outside of votetags aren't counted by this mod.

This reads so opportunistic and I'm struggling to see your side here because you're still using your thoughts on TB in order to try lynch Arc, which makes no sense and doesn't feel like town play to me.

In newbie 1744 we used this to literally lynch scum. We got two scum back to back after losing both PRs day 1.
I understand why you carry the perspective you do, but you should try to understand mine too. I think there's a lot of value in evaluating the actions of that slot's predecessor.
There's also no way this was 'opportunistic' because I've stated about twenty gorrilion times I want to lynch TB's slot.

Mort, I believe in you and your ability to find the scum after I flip or after Road flips or etc, but I don't believe in your ability to convince the rest of town or survive through the nightkills even if you get on the right tack.

This post reads off to me. Mainly the last part, it's like you know Mort is on the wrong path or is going to be killed during the night.

I literally can't say anything in this game. I've got like eight crosshairs reading everything I say as if I'm confScum.
If I'm lynched today -please- remember those read posts I made earlier.

[Human Sequencer]

I will admit my TF green lens is weakening, but I need more time to formulate that.
Especially if arc is green.
If arc is green I'll be confused but I'll probably be on Twoface's tail.

[Human Sequencer]

Also kinda worried about wobbs. Drone is still... eh to me. Not sure.

[Human Sequencer]

I still stand by what I said about TB. I think it's very relevant to interpreting her slot.

Arc is really abrasive and forward. I'm still sorting out how I interpret her, but I feel like her suddenly trying to flip a wagon against me, an easy target, isn't a good sign. Her claiming I had no lead or reasoning isn't legitimate, because I've put forward my thoughts on TB many times.
>inb4 people complain because I'm sring arc based on TB again
That's how I interpret the slot. I understand you interpret it differently.

Arc is a lot greener than TB though. The read is weakening. Which is bad because now I don't have any scum slots I'd really be willing to lynch, and I'm worried it might stay like that before day ends.
I'm gonna iso Drone and Wobbs soon to get a better perspective on them.

PS Arc, I don't mean to offend you in any way, I'm just playing the game.

PSS Twoface, nice reddit-tier meme! You really outmemed her! You must be a meme master!

[Human Sequencer]

The replacements make me feel really eh about this game. Especially with Chaos probably getting kicked soon.
Makes it really difficult to maintain a proper read and makes actually playing the game difficult.
Eh.

[Human Sequencer]

Wobbs is scummy, yeah I concede that, but Copper was pretty towny.
So far I've been interpreting wobbs as a new player who is just fucking up a whole bunch, with a lot of his posts as NAI. I haven't done a proper analysis though, so I still need to get around to that.

[Human Sequencer]

P sure he did bro

[Human Sequencer]

No way would scumDrone so clearly say that if he knew you'd softclaimed
As to whether him missing it is scum indicative because scum don't need to read the thread is another question entirely, don't buy it myself though

[Human Sequencer]

TBH I don't think you can intelligently say anything

Please shoot me tonight, I really wouldn't mind being out of this game tbh

[Human Sequencer]

Alright Uzi I'll join you on the 'ignore a slot's previous player' train.
Did a read of Wobbs' iso. Still not convinced to be honest. He's said a lot of stupid things, but not a lot of red things. Could somebody help me to understand?
Going through drone in a second.

Shadow's reading kinda green here to me.

PEDIT: wot
TF: 'Drone is scum because x'
HUMAN: 'But Twoface, x isn't valid'
TF: 'TBH I don't think you can intelligently say that'
-later-
TF: 'Yeah HS I agree on your point, so now i'mma vote you'
Fuck, if I was scum I would have just latched onto that possibility and drilled it into a Drone lynch. Nobody else had mentioned that he probably missed it and I conceivably could have easily gotten away with it later.

[Human Sequencer]

TF, what's the scum motivation for me defending Drone?

[Human Sequencer]

TF, what's the scum motivation for me defending Drone?

[Human Sequencer]

Why would scumHuman buddy townDrone, especially considering post 358 and his subsequent reasoning of it?

It goes against scumHuman's motivations because scumHuman wants to lynch townies, and that was an angle they could use to target another townie.

If I'm scum, why are you even listening to anything I have to say? Doesn't the fact that I helped you in your reasoning to not lynch town give me at least some town points?
I'm just trying to convince you that MAYBE you're not 100% infallible like you seem to think you are. You could be wrong, I could be wrong. Opinions can change in light of recent events, and your reads should fluctuate accordingly. Look at how my reads have organically moved throughout the game. You've stayed gunned on me whole fucking game for little justification, but whatever I suppose I'm dying tonight because of it anyway so I shouldn't even bother finishing this post that was trying to win you over.

Just because somebody disagrees with you, and just because you got into an argument with somebody over fickle semantics doesn't regard them as scum. There's more to it than that.
idk. Whatever.

PEDIT: Yeah that
Don't like the 'I'll just replace out :^)' threat though, but I completely understand

[Human Sequencer]

I'm finally getting people who are actually thinking this game through. People like Kamelot, Drone and Chaos. I knew you'd pull through.

[Human Sequencer]

'I buy your case but do you know that TB is a newbie and a very bad player. How you dont want to give a benefit of doubt on that seems you dont want to purse scum hunting on my case instead you made up your mind on the slot which makes me feel that you probably scum'
Well, I hadn't already made up my mind on the slot, because as I said recently, I'm starting to view you as less scummy the more you post.
Beyond that, I really do think that TB's actions were more likely to come from new scum instead of new town. I've said this about 4^99 times now.

'I voted you because scum always find easy way to hop on, i dont know if this is your general play style or immpractical method to scum hunt but i see it very scummy. I hope you get my point of view on you.'
This wasn't just an 'easy way to hop on' though. I was ready for this wagon for a very long time. I've stated my detailed case on TB twice now, once from before I voted.

'why do you read TF as scum now? Can you summarize it in a better format?'
I don't read TF as scum now, my interpretation has gone from 'obvTown' to 'maybeTown'.

TF has pretty much claimed vig at this point and claims he'll shoot Wobbs or maybe me tonight because he's immaturely pissed off and bitter about an argument he had with copper, the person who was in that slot previously.

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

[Human Sequencer]

I should also mention, he also has some pretty valid points on Wobbs.**

[Human Sequencer]

He'll just call you lazy and complain a bunch. Here.

Spoiler:

ok so I voted Copper because I agreed with Mort that this post was bad - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8478254

I explain why i think it is bad here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8480817

Here is more explanation from me why I had an issue with his post - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8481099

He looks worse when he falsely accuses me of being flip floppy yet the 2 posts he quotes are me basically saying the same thing.- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8481161

This post is really bad because he misreps the reason why I am voting him. yes I disagree with his definition of lynchbait, but it isn't his definition of lynchbait why I think he is scum, it's the fact that he said he would unvote when he got to l-1. As i explain in a post with mort later in the day, if he is actually concerned with the way the wagon is progressing why wait until L-1? why not unvote now. A townie who is uneasy imo would unvote.

argument ensues, his arguments fall flat and don't help change my opinion of him at all.

here is more from me why copper is scum to me -http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8483290

posts 383/383 contain me restating why I think he is scum, which again proves I haven't refused to do anything like scum copper replacement has accused me of

387 - me explaining how copper basically tried to twist my posts

Here is the conversation with Mort. Starts here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8486133 and ends at the end of the page.


So in a nutshell i think he is scum because

1. I felt like his reaction to creepy being L-2 didn't make sense. If he was genuinely concerned he would have unvoted, not say he is keeping his vote but will unvote at L-1
2. He attempted to misrep me by saying my posts about him said 2 different things when they clearly didn't. Even when I point them out and show they say the exact same thing, he refuses to admit his mistake. I may be naive but I am of the belief that scum is less likely to admit their mistakes, town should have no problems admitting theirs.
3. The fact that he jumped on TB after TB voted him and went and lied about his activity. There is no evidence that supports Copper's claim and evidence that proves his claim was not true.

I just don't see a town player doing these things so this is why I think he is scum.


and since I am doing it, My scum read on HS is kind of harder to explain. What pinged me first was the weird drone comment. Drone hadn't even posted and he was asking drone if he agreed with him or something like that. Later HS claims he saw the mod post that drone had confirmed but somehow missed that he was on V/LA which I think is unlikely especially when HS said he wasn't skimming. Even if he were skimming, I doubt he would miss that but when HS said he wasn't skimming I just don't see how he misses it. The fact that he avoided my question about copper lying about TB and now actually sides with Copper about TB when the facts prove them both wrong, just points to scum to me.

I think Drone is scum only if HS is scum. Outside of that I don't have a read on drone

Misa - is scummy to me for the fake outrage post she made, her replacing out doesn't bode well but I don't have enough to lynch her which is why I am not trying to atm

Those are my reads, like them or not they are what they are.

ya'll want to policy lynch me for trying to lynch scum, go right ahead but i haven't done shit wrong except maybe be a little abrasive. Who cares. I am active, I am providing reads, I am scum hunting, and I am providing reasons for my reads. AKA PLAYING THE FUCKING GAME

[Human Sequencer]

It's worth noting that if we get one one kill tonight, TF is then very very suspicious, and only a few fringe doctor cases or other niche stuff like that could save him from definitely being scum.

this is a bad post

How is it untrue? Maf kills one, where is your kill? I'm just trying to help town tomorrow in the case that I am a dead man tonight.

[Human Sequencer]

Is this stupid scum worried that he's drilled himself into a hole he can't escape from w/ his fakeclaim?

[Human Sequencer]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for some unknown reason

[Human Sequencer]

How is it untrue? Maf kills one, where is your kill? I'm just trying to help town tomorrow in the case that I am a dead man tonight.

what if I choose not to actually kill anyone (smart play)
what if I am role blocked/jail kept? (possible)
what if the person I target is bulletproof, hider, or even doc saved?

so many possibilities.

The only ones that can't be explained by town are roleblocks and bulletproof.
You're right about the roleblock/bulletproof though. I didn't think that part through so well. I was incorrect.

[Human Sequencer]

If you're claiming to get the heat off you, you claim 'I'm vig, stop voting me'.

[Human Sequencer]

That's exactly what you fucking did. How else are you supposed to interpret that post.

[Human Sequencer]

If you're claiming to get the heat off you, you claim 'I'm vig, stop voting me'.

HS, Will you try shift your focus on other players apart form TF? If not TF who is that you would like to lynch today. I am presuming that I am not in your scum radar at this moment. What about others? and Is your read on Drone is strong town read or you like him because he constantly defends people for good reasons?

Like I said a little earlier, I'm not really confident in any scumreads anymore. I have a lot of townreads though.
Mort is a strong townread.
Uzi is a strong townread.
Twoface is a townread.
Naomi is a townread.
Shadow is a townread.

I made that comment about Drone because regardless of if he's scum or town, he's actually thinking the game through and trying to participate. I'm not sure about his alignment. Null. I've got a lot of nulls that I could easily be convinced over to lynching.

The fact that everybody who has been posting more comes out as more and more town makes me suspicious that your assumption was correct in us giving scum an easy D1, and that they're probably just hiding back somewhere.

[Human Sequencer]

take

How is this anything but a vig claim?

[Human Sequencer]

yeah scum want me gone today so good idea to lynch me before I can take one of them out

[Human Sequencer]

I haven't been focusing on TF. I still townread him.

You're right though. It really isn't that productive.

[Human Sequencer]

No content=no read.
I think his post on Kamelot is reasonable, even if I don't agree with it.
I would like to hear more of his opinions on everybody.

[Human Sequencer]

I have infinite time.

[Human Sequencer]

Well, I thought TF was referring to time in my life to commit to Mafia.

I suppose I can get on board with that.
VOTE: ChaosOmega

[Human Sequencer]

Well, I thought TF was referring to time in my life to commit to Mafia.

Because I'm town lol

[Human Sequencer]

Chaos lurks all games regardless of alignment. I don't agree with it, but it's consistent with our last game, where he told us that.

[Human Sequencer]

He posted just recently.

[Human Sequencer]

I read shadow town because there's no way scum would replace in and suggest his hypoplay idea.

Really really really good point on Drone.
I know this looks scummy but I'm jumping straight on this.
VOTE: Drone

[Human Sequencer]

Much rather be on a wagon I think could actually hit scum as opposed to parking my vote for pressure reasons.

[Human Sequencer]

I didn't have any other scumreads, like I've said twentyfive to the nth times, and it's really really bad on Drone's part.