Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Csareo]

[quote]I'm actually not worried about being lynched, as if I am, I'm sure people will eventually piece things together. I really want to see the BBT wagon out.
Massive has me the wrong way for lurking. I have concerns with those who are defending BBT, and the cases they are bringing forward.
They only make sense to me if BBT is scum, which is why I'm not accusing GC and Massive of anything until I see what BBT flips.

I am town reading Ruffling, Boonskies, and Anatole
I am scum reading BBT and gut on Flubber.
Everyone else is null until I see what BBT flips.

If BBT flips scum, then I'm looking at TTH, GC, and Massive
If he flips town, then I'll have to look at Boonskies.

[Csareo]

I'm actually not worried about being lynched, as if I am, I'm sure people will eventually piece things together. I really want to see the BBT wagon out.
Massive has me the wrong way for lurking. I have concerns with those who are defending BBT, and the cases they are bringing forward.
They only make sense to me if BBT is scum, which is why I'm not accusing GC and Massive of anything until I see what BBT flips.

I am town reading Ruffling, Boonskies, and Anatole
I am scum reading BBT and gut on Flubber.
Everyone else is null until I see what BBT flips.

If BBT flips scum, then I'm looking at TTH, GC, and Massive
If he flips town, then I'll have to look at Boonskies.

[Csareo]

He had 143 posts, so I think his account in general just went inactive.

[Csareo]

@BBT, Being reactionary isn't a playstyle trait.
Reactionary, is to be

extremely

reactive to a push.
Usually if we break a pattern, or pressure someone that you are 100% alligned with.

These reactions have been recorded consistently throughout the whole game.
If someone tunnels you, we see you "React" by voting that person.
Whenever a new wagon takes off you "React" and switch wagons.
Most suspicious of all, is how others react to your vote hopping and defensiveness.

What's attractive about this lynch, is that it will narrow the game down to two possibilities either way you flip (third being scum is inactive)

#1. You flip scum

- We now know that scum are infested on my wagon

#2 You flip town

- We now know that there are scum infested on your wagon
or...
- Scum were inactive this phase

@To Everyone, Either way, this would be a well calculated lynch, and despite my very strong scum read on BBT, even if he flipped town, we would know a lot about scum, and be in a good position.
As for the night kill, I see two possibilities.

#1. BBT Flips Scum

- I'll be NK'd, to stop a tunnel on players participating on my wagon
- They'll leave me alive as they think I'll be easy to mislynch (and they would be right)
They'll either kill a townie or mafia member who was also on my wagon to clear the others of suspicion

#2. BBT Flips Town

- They'll kill an inactive and let us battle it out
Which is what I would do if he flips town, were I also scum.

Any other thoughts or things we should look out for in the NP?

[Csareo]

Glad you guy's are being more active, but someone has to give now.
Anatole, how do you still not understand why we should lynch BBT?
Are there any questions I can answer to help you get there?

[Csareo]

A town vs town wagon is out of the question for me.

[Csareo]

If people honestly aren't tipped off by the circumstances of my wagon, then there isn't much of a future for this game.
These things cliked for me awhile ago. I know I keep reposting this, but it is the most solid case I have.
Please go back to this post
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6223124

And read these two carefully

BBT has a tendency to do the same things over and over. When a player starts to tunnel him, he reacts by voting the player that is putting on the pressure (TTH, Wake88, Csareo, boon).
As soon as the player tunneling relaxes pressure, or the push seems to be counter intuitive, BBT proceeds to join an opportunistic wagon (scrambles, boon, anatole, tth again, me twice, once opportunistic)
It has also became clear that the same players start becoming active whenever he begins to be tunneled again (massive, greencrayons, ruffles)
In addition to this three way pattern we have saw dozens of times already, there is a shockingly similar transparency between two cases, "ruffles and green crayons".
This pattern alone warrants a policy lynch just to unearth the scum on his wagon.
At this rate, the only possibilities left are "BBT is town being protected by scum, or scum being protected by scum.
Now the only reason I doubt this LOR, is because there are two strong wagons right now, and if scum were trying to establish a town bloc on a player, it wouldn't of happened in this context (given I know I'm town).

In other words, there are two wagons going on, and on D1, usually one would of been tipped by scum now.
They've had about a dozen pages to defend either me or BBT, and usually at this point scum would just finish one of the players off, and have a solid town read simply for defending a now dead townie.
I highly doubt scum would draw it out for this long, which makes me believe scum are defending one of the two wagons.

[Csareo]

Give the mods post.

[Csareo]

Give the mods post.

What does this mean?

I'm asking him to quote the mods post.

[Csareo]

Is it because they mention you're Scum? If they simply say you're Neighbors, then I don't see the problem.

My thoughts exactly. Doctor Pepper himself said "PT's are fair game".

[Csareo]

I still want to see it.

[Csareo]

We're just learning about it being in night now.
Somethings off.

[Csareo]

There is no reason why he shouldn't be lynched yet.
And BBT, there is nothing to laugh about.
You are the worst and snottiest player I have ever encountered on this site.
I don't know if this is your scum or town play, but both are shit.

[Csareo]

We're just learning about it being in night now.
Somethings off.

Please rephrase this.

There is something weird about the fact that we're only being told this information (about nights) now.

[Csareo]

Saying you don't have daychat shouldn't imply you have nightchat.

[Csareo]

No one is using meta but you.
Everytime we accuse you of something you say "That's my playstyle".
Are you intentionally being a blatant hypocrite?

[Csareo]

This guy must have an IQ of 5.

[Csareo]

Saying you don't have daychat shouldn't imply you have nightchat.

Wait a minute.

It should imply you have Nightchat if you say you don't have Daychat, because otherwise how you gonna chat? Only in the pre-game?

Explain a bit further, please, because now you've got me looking in your direction a bit, too.

That was my original assumption, considering BBT said it was pre chat several times.
The comment on "night" chat got me offguard tbh.

[Csareo]

A vote flip is out of the question? I got to say, this is the scummiest static wagon I've seen. Ever.
I've been playing for two years, and you're getting carried through by your scumbuddies.

[Csareo]

BBT has a habit of repeating things others bring up.
Frustrating indeed.

[Csareo]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

[Csareo]

I'm taking wake's advice and not insulting BBT, but the guy really tests my patience.
He reminds me of a snotty 12 year old.

[Csareo]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

What's your read on massive?

It still remains scum

[Csareo]

I retract my scumread on Doogal. I went back over him again and he reads town in his early play, checking GreyICE's assertion that Anatole was lying, asking questions of BBT and TTH. He unvotes to avoid a quickhammer which reads genuine and towny. He's mostly absent other than that. I don't like his answer to the 4th question Green Crayons asked but it's not enough to move him into scum territory. Sorry for all the nulls, I feel a bit out of my depth here.

Why are you reading BBT as town?
Are you suspicious that there are two wagons right now?

[Csareo]

People are justifying their votes partly based their reads of those voting with and against them. I see my townreads on both wagons.

Csareo is only has 4 real votes in my eyes because Omph never voted for him. Omph's vote is actually from scrambles which was barely justified.

That is a bad form of associative reads.
I am trying to avoid that, which is why greencrayons isn't scum simply for not voting BBT or agreeing with me.

[Csareo]

I'm getting very tired of this game.
Either you guy's see it, or you keep getting misled by the bullshit posters on my wagon.
It isn't that I'm being targeted that concerns me. It is how obvious the wagon started in reaction to me tunneling BBT.
Is there yet to be a comprehensible case on me?
As for BBT, he's shown many patterns typical of scum.
Trust me, I would know, which is why this game just feels off.

Now let's do the only practical thing there is now, and finish BBT off.
Would it kill us either way, to finnally resolve the neighborhood, and unearth the millions of association tells on BBT.
A flip seals a lot of people as far as read goes. We are not in a bad position if he flips town, and to be honest, he probably wont flip town.
Please, just get this over with. I am literally begging you,

[Csareo]

Csareo, Boon: If both of you think scum are driving your wagon, who are they? Who's scum on the other person's wagon?

It is useless to think along those lines before a flip, but probably you and greencrayons.

[Csareo]

@Massive- I'm not taking the cases seriously, because there is nothing serious about them. They're all very laughable, and making people wonder about its true motive. I'm happy calling you, and the others on my wagon, names, because the logic is far beyond stupid. It is retarded. Now use your head, and stop aligning yourself with scum on a counter-wagon.

[Csareo]

BBT, who are you scum reading besides me and boon?

[Csareo]

Can we just agree that we need a flip?
Someone on or off my wagon needs to give ground on the BBT lynch.

[Csareo]

Csareo, Boon: If both of you think scum are driving your wagon, who are they? Who's scum on the other person's wagon?

It is useless to think along those lines before a flip, but probably you and greencrayons.

This looks like you're scum-reading massive

Now use your head, and stop aligning yourself with scum on a counter-wagon.

But this looks like you're town-reading him.

Which is it?

Nothing I said in the last quote was allegiance indicative.
I'm not scum reading Massive until I see what you flip.
How many times do I need to repeat myself.

[Csareo]

I would if that would work. There is nothing to scum read him for besides lurking and disagreeing with me.

[Csareo]

I would if that would work. There is nothing to scum read him for besides lurking and disagreeing with me.

You can't scum-read someone for disagreeing with you.

Also, why aren't you scum-reading Doogal, Flubber and TTH for lurking as well?

You don't get street talk, do you?
It is sarcasm, I can't scum read massive because he hasn't done anything scummy (disagreeing with me isn't a scum tell).

[Csareo]

If you flip scum, then that is a different story altogether.

[Csareo]

No, I'm really not. Massive and GC are likely scum if you also flip scum.
I haven't seen a flip, so I'm not going to accuse them of anything.
If you flip town, then I'm sure Boon + TTH will come under fire.

[Csareo]

And why are you repeating something massive and GC's already brought up. \
Your repetition isn't wanted reinforcement. Refer to my earlier advice, you're way better off if you keep quiet.
Stop unleashing my pet peeve. When scum get carried to the endgame by their buddies, or stubborn townies keep being stubborn.

A stupid man can't hear his stupidity. Ciao.

[Csareo]

Well I'm null reading him like I said dozens of times.
And yes, I will concede to a bit of emotional hostage taking.
Are we done?

[Csareo]

So much stubborn...

[Csareo]

you guys are incorrigible

You don't agree with my recent posts?

I'm curious to see his answer about the TTH thing but I don't really see a point being made for me to agree with.

TTH has a steady vote on BBT, which means something if he flips town. And the neighborhood allegiance debacle I don't want to get into again.

[Csareo]

Raise your hand if your reads have changed in the last 10 pages.

WE. NEED. A. FLIP.

Which read flipped?

[Csareo]

Sorry, which read changed? If any.

[Csareo]

Why have you changed your avatar like ten times in the past five minutes

Lobby Conversation. I was told if I change my gender I would get lynched less.

[Csareo]

Why are you now null-reading Massive after scumreading him in the above posts?

I haven't been scum reading him for a long time. Actually, the only time I ever related to him being scum, was an accusation of lurking.

[Csareo]

Why are you now null-reading Massive after scumreading him in the above posts?

I haven't been scum reading him for a long time. Actually, the only time I ever related to him being scum, was an accusation of lurking.

[Csareo]

Can someone give me a summary of what happened in this game so far?

Sure. As Impartial as possible, a player named BBT began vote hopping a lot, and that led to a solid tunnel from a couple of townies, including doogal, boonskies, TTH, and me. In response to the wagon, a second one popped up on yours truly, Csareo, leaving us at a L-2 and L-1 gridlock. We're all very frustrated and fed up with this game, and it would be lovely if you hammer BBT in the meantime. Thanks!

[Csareo]

Can someone give me a summary of what happened in this game so far?

And here is all the information you need to lynch BBT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6223124

BBT has a tendency to do the same things over and over. When a player starts to tunnel him, he reacts by voting the player that is putting on the pressure (TTH, Wake88, Csareo, boon).
As soon as the player tunneling relaxes pressure, or the push seems to be counter intuitive, BBT proceeds to join an opportunistic wagon (scrambles, boon, anatole, tth again, me twice, once opportunistic)
It has also became clear that the same players start becoming active whenever he begins to be tunneled again (massive, greencrayons, ruffles)
In addition to this three way pattern we have saw dozens of times already, there is a shockingly similar transparency between two cases, "ruffles and green crayons".
This pattern alone warrants a policy lynch just to unearth the scum on his wagon.
At this rate, the only possibilities left are "BBT is town being protected by scum, or scum being protected by scum.
Now the only reason I doubt this LOR, is because there are two strong wagons right now, and if scum were trying to establish a town bloc on a player, it wouldn't of happened in this context (given I know I'm town).

In other words, there are two wagons going on, and on D1, usually one would of been tipped by scum now.
They've had about a dozen pages to defend either me or BBT, and usually at this point scum would just finish one of the players off, and have a solid town read simply for defending a now dead townie.
I highly doubt scum would draw it out for this long, which makes me believe scum are defending one of the two wagons.

Given the shit cases being thrown at me, and the multitude of scum tells committed by BBT, it is clear who we have to lynch.
At this point, we're pretty much fighting an uphill battle to get scum to finally bus.

The case on me is pretty much "Csareo doesn't make sense", or I think, because it isn't comprehensible in the slightest. Thanks, please hammer!

[Csareo]

This post is also important. BBT and TTH claim to be neighbors, and posted the pre topic.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6235308

[Csareo]

@Greencrayons- Apparently you didn't realize all your case was is "Association tells". Please rephrase it, as you have failed to give a slightly good case on me.

[Csareo]

Which reminds me, show me the moderators post BBT. I'm sick of having to keep asking.
By DoctorPepper's own words, anything that isn't indicative of alignment is fair game.

[Csareo]

If DP says it's OK, I'll do it.

I've already told you it doesn't say anything though.

Doctor Pepper has posted Vote Counts several times since the last time you "Asked".
He already gave you an answer. If it doesn't have your allignment, then it's fair game.
Post. It. Now. Scum

[Csareo]

What is the title called? Word for word?

[Csareo]

buddying wake at a time when wake and Anatole were internet screaming at each other over some pretty minor BS

Again with this buddying nonsense. You're driving me crazy,

supposedly did a scum slip when he said that "when BBT flips town" instead of "if BBT flips town," but frankly in the context it made sense to me as BBT had just said that he was going to flip town

This was obviously a grammar error. Everyone has messed up like that before, and it's a bullshit reason to lynch people.

he pushed a pretty bad case against BBT in tandem with lining up lynches in the form of BBT-TTH (the neighbors), suggesting an attempted mislynch, (5) he has vilified with those who disagree with his BBT suspicions, which he clearly connected to setting up future vote pushes against such players regardless of whether BBT flips town or scum,

1. Being wrong is not a scum tell
2. You don't know what people will flip, so you can't make a case based off the premise I'm scum. That's called a fallacy.

he likes to reduce the totality of the suspicions against him as simply "buddying" and "associative tells," though one time he said that he was accused of "tunneling," but that's just him getting overexcited about what all suspicion things he's done in this thread.

Because all your case has been is accusations of buddying and associative tells.
I'm convinced you don't know how to actually scum hunt.

[Csareo]

Greencrayons has literally the shittiest case alive. She just likes to stretch it out for more than it's worth. Csareo buddies with wake. Csareo is trying to manafacture future lynches (which relies on me being scum to even make sense. As many users have pointed out, it is a counter wagon. We need a flip. Break the gridlock, please.

[Csareo]

I am for sure not posting thread title unless Mod confirms I can.

Why not? This is pretty much a give away that it isn't a "neighborhood" PT.
A flip would resolve this neighborhood bullshit once and for all.

[Csareo]

We want to know the title of the PT.

[Csareo]

If Mod says I can post thread title, I will.

It's as simple as that.

You posted the moderator's opening post. He said anything that isn't out of your role PM is fair game.
It sounds like you're avoiding giving us an answer. I also think TTH might know more than she's letting on.

[Csareo]

Wow, I can't say any more on it than I already have.

I await Mod's decision.

This leads me to believe the title contains information about allegiance.
You're caught between the tough choice of
1. Lying that the Mod titled it something else
2. Pretending like it is anything more than a neighborhood PT, which the right answer, scum, would of been "Neighborhood PT"

[Csareo]

Greencrayons, follow ruffling's example, and distance yourself from BBT.
It makes me wonder if you're fighting to save him, simply for the sake of not being associated with him when he flips red.
The excessive and detailed posts containing the same nonsense are 100% proof of that.

[Csareo]

I want to see a screenshot now, lol

[Csareo]

Because I'm town, and people are a little suspicious over the wagon on me. I'm pretty sure the cases of TTH, Doogal, and Boonskies were all "The case on csareo seems scum motivated".
With your associative logic, I'm sure they're all scum as well.

[Csareo]

@BBT, I don't need to defend myself. Defending myself comes second to hunting scum.
The only time I've bothered responding to Greencrayon's bullshit cases were when it was needed to gain influence.
Something you can learn from.

[Csareo]

Can someone unvote BBT so that I may read in peace without a threat of someone cutting off the day?

No one is going to flip a vote. Everyone is dead set in their reads.

[Csareo]

Csareo, unvote me so FG can read in peace.

No, I pushed this wagon for far to long to give any leeway.
The bullshit I put up with is sickening.

[Csareo]

And I'm also having trouble because of scrambles and omph's old vote.
I'm comfortable leaving it where it is.

[Csareo]

Take a screenshot of the neighborhood PT btw.

[Csareo]

Take a screenshot of the neighborhood PT btw.

Isn't this against the rules?

DoctorPepper said PT's are fair game.

[Csareo]

As long as nothing is indicative of role, like posting a scum PT.

[Csareo]

http://i.imgur.com/7hau71I.jpg?1?6854
Take a screenshot like this

[Csareo]

That's highly unusual.

Most mods do not allow anything except paraphrasing from PTs.

He supposedly copied the whole neighborhood PT, and the mod didn't say anything.
Which is why I want to lynch him. Besides him being scummy and anti town, I want to know if any of the shit he posted was true.

[Csareo]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6235308'
You have copied and pasted the whole PT, so why couldn't you screenshot it?

@DoctorPepper, Can he do this

[Csareo]

That's highly unusual.

Most mods do not allow anything except paraphrasing from PTs.

He supposedly copied the whole neighborhood PT, and the mod didn't say anything.
Which is why I want to lynch him. Besides him being scummy and anti town, I want to know if any of the shit he posted was true.

Why not ask his neighbor whether if it was true?

She conveniently ignored all questions regarding the neighborhood.

[Csareo]

I don't even give a shit about the neighborhood thread. It's everything else you have done this game, and the counter wagon so prevalent with your buddies.

[Csareo]

She already has. She was the one who outted a neighborhood, when they both voted each other during RVS.

[Csareo]

She has confirmed everything BBT has said for the most part, which makes me believe the neighborhood claim.
Given they are definitely not on the same team.

PE: We doubt them because it

could

be a TTH-BBT scum ploy. Every time I drop it BBT makes me wonder again. It is a lead, and not a strong one.

[Csareo]

I don't give a shit about the neighborhood, except that the fighting over it ends when BBT flips scum.

[Csareo]

UNVOTE:

Since no one else seems to want to oblige, I will. I want to hear FakeGod out.

What is the title of the PT called? You are the worst person to unvote btw.

[Csareo]

Can someone give me a summary of what happened in this game so far?

And here is all the information you need to lynch BBT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6223124

BBT has a tendency to do the same things over and over. When a player starts to tunnel him, he reacts by voting the player that is putting on the pressure (TTH, Wake88, Csareo, boon).
As soon as the player tunneling relaxes pressure, or the push seems to be counter intuitive, BBT proceeds to join an opportunistic wagon (scrambles, boon, anatole, tth again, me twice, once opportunistic)
It has also became clear that the same players start becoming active whenever he begins to be tunneled again (massive, greencrayons, ruffles)
In addition to this three way pattern we have saw dozens of times already, there is a shockingly similar transparency between two cases, "ruffles and green crayons".
This pattern alone warrants a policy lynch just to unearth the scum on his wagon.
At this rate, the only possibilities left are "BBT is town being protected by scum, or scum being protected by scum.
Now the only reason I doubt this LOR, is because there are two strong wagons right now, and if scum were trying to establish a town bloc on a player, it wouldn't of happened in this context (given I know I'm town).

In other words, there are two wagons going on, and on D1, usually one would of been tipped by scum now.
They've had about a dozen pages to defend either me or BBT, and usually at this point scum would just finish one of the players off, and have a solid town read simply for defending a now dead townie.
I highly doubt scum would draw it out for this long, which makes me believe scum are defending one of the two wagons.

Given the shit cases being thrown at me, and the multitude of scum tells committed by BBT, it is clear who we have to lynch.
At this point, we're pretty much fighting an uphill battle to get scum to finally bus.

The case on me is pretty much "Csareo doesn't make sense", or I think, because it isn't comprehensible in the slightest. Thanks, please hammer!

Please don't forget about this post fakegod.

[Csareo]

UNVOTE:

Since no one else seems to want to oblige, I will. I want to hear FakeGod out.

What is the title of the PT called? You are the worst person to unvote btw.

You keep saying you don't care about the neighbourhood...yet you keep asking questions as if to try and disprove it...

Because everytime you talk about it I become suspicious, then TTH comes in.
Who needs to give me a straight answer. What is the PT called?

[Csareo]

I think greencrayon's theory is that "Wake thinks BBT and TTH are lying about it being a neighborhood"

[Csareo]

Which is what he probably does think. Why can't you just tell me what the PT is called TTH?
It is a reasonable request, is it not?

[Csareo]

Please don't forget about this post fakegod.

You think I should end the day on the basis of few posts that one player selectively picked out for me?

Without reading through any of the game or talking to anyone else?

Idealistically, yes

[Csareo]

What the hell, Fakegod can decide who he wants to vote without me and BBT barking up his leg.
FOS on TTH for unvoting, ciao.

[Csareo]

wake thinks that they're lying, and no neighborhood exists, and so they will simply flip "scum."

Again, that theory is impossible.

TTH outed the "neighborhood" to lynch BBT.

If BBT flips "Mafia Goon", then town will know what's up and Scum_TTH will immediately be lynched.

But now she's unvoting, so is it even clear if she wanted to lynch BBT, or start an early tunnel of her buddy (just asking, because I believe the neighborhood claim)

[Csareo]

I can't believe you have the audacity to call me anti-town.

[Csareo]

...Then you can't read players....
Why am I still here?

[Csareo]

What the hell, Fakegod can decide who he wants to vote without me and BBT barking up his leg.
FOS on TTH for unvoting, ciao.

This game is in dire need of a fresh perspective. I'll take your FoS.

Can you just tell me the title of the PT?
If not, then tell me what's unreasonable about this request.

[Csareo]

Telltale, replace your vote.

[Csareo]

I'm not as flimsy in my voting patterns.
BBT is scum and my vote isn't changing.
I'm also not willing to lynch boon or doogal, because their allegiance is discovered with BBT's.

[Csareo]

BBT is scum and my vote isn't changing.

Are you willing to bet your life on it?

Always was a gambler with fate.

[Csareo]

@Fakegod-That would be playing against my team's win condition, and accomplish absolutely nothing but having me flip vannila town.

[Csareo]

Another vote flip? Sigh, when does it end?

[Csareo]

I'll replace out if BBT flips town, but self voting is silly.

[Csareo]

And the fact that the case on boonskies is for tunneling " BBT" and buddying with me.
Where have we heard this before?

[Csareo]

I'm not hammering myself just to convince fakegod. Either you see the reason to lynch or you don't, simple as that.

[Csareo]

I have begun classifying people who've not voted BBT into two possible categories.
"Scum" and "Ignorant"

[Csareo]

Answer what? I didn't spot a question in 1487 to answer to?
You're not my damn boss.

[Csareo]

If not agreeing to self vote myself is anti-town, then all hope IS lost for MS

[Csareo]

I had a dream where boon was a mafia goon, and BBT a sorcerer, but I'm not willing to lynch boonskies based on a prophetic vision.
And Fakegod, I'm not lynching anyone else because I'm not scum reading anyone else. BBT flip would reveal so much information and insight right now.

[Csareo]

I'm fine lynching boonskies if BBT flips town. Don't know why he claimed PR already.
I was thinking about doing a reads list, but that's really hard until I see a flip.

If BBT flips town
- Boonskies
- Doogal
- Anatole

If BBT Flips Scum
- Greencrayons
- Massive
- Anatole

Not scum reading anyone besides BBT, but I will for sure once we have a flip.

[Csareo]

Boonskies, it is wise to shut about about being a PR for now.

[Csareo]

I had a theory (and a dream) that BBT might be a third party.

[Csareo]

@Fakegod, we'll see what BBT flips and if he'll be NK'd. Until then, a lynch is counter productive.

[Csareo]

You implied something I never said. It isn't productive to push a wagon on a player who claimed a PR. If he is a PR, I wouldn't be wrong in thinking he'll be NK'd.

[Csareo]

Think of it this way. If Boon is a PR, he will either come with some awesome new information tomorrow or be killed.
Both paths reveal whether or not he's lying.

[Csareo]

I'm not saying he's a town PR. I'm saying it doesn't fucking matter if he is or not.
He'll either be NK'd, or forced to confirm his power with us tommorow.
And claiming a PR on L-3 is dumb as shit as both town and scum.

[Csareo]

Boonskies, full claim.

[Csareo]

Yeah, but there is no confirmation he's lying.
Whereas we can confirm him tomorrow, which is the most logical thing to do.

[Csareo]

He needs to tell us what his PR is, and hopefully it is confirmable.

[Csareo]

I had a theory (and a dream) that BBT might be a third party.

So you think he's a third-party neighbor? Oy.

No, I don't think that. It is one of numerous theories.

[Csareo]

I'm not saying he's a town PR. I'm saying it doesn't fucking matter if he is or not.
He'll either be NK'd, or forced to confirm his power with us tommorow.
And claiming a PR on L-3 is dumb as shit as both town and scum.

It's not "dumb as shit" if he's scum trying to disperse the wagon without having to give specifics.

As for the claim itself, it is

extremely

fishy and FakeGod is right that the "I'm going to troll hammer if someone gets to L-1" line Boonskiies opened the game with is very odd in retrospect.

The wagon on BBT did't disperse. The one on me did, which only confirms my suspicions.

[Csareo]

Who are you going to track?

[Csareo]

I am almost certain scum are on Boonskies wagon. It developed to quick, and the people on BBT were all to happy to abandon their convicitions.
Flubber, I refused to self vote. It accomplishes nothing and is counter productive to the town win condition. I don't need to give scum a free mislynch if BBT flips town.

[Csareo]

CSAREO ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

Chill. How am I kidding you? A tracker is a confirmable role if he tells us who he's going to track.

[Csareo]

I'm suspicious of fakegod, mostly for his interactions with the boonskies wagon.

[Csareo]

I believe the tracker claim. I believe the wagon is very suspicious. I also believe boonskies being NK'd will confirm any suspicions people might have.
It seems like a scum motivated wagon to eliminate a PR, and it formed way to fast, and way to easily to be true. Besides some hypothetical evidence he's lying, which there is no way of knowing, the case on boonskies is a replica of the former case on me.

I hate everything about this wagon.

[Csareo]

Fakegod, if boonskies isn't scum for whatever reason, do you still believe the tracker claim was a lie?

[Csareo]

Do you? The only thing they have to fear is the existence of a tracker, and so far boonskies hasn't been CC"d.
I think it is perfectly logical to assume Boonskies will be NK'd.

[Csareo]

Tracker is a powerful role under two circumstances
- Lots of associative tells exist
- It is late game.

Currently there are lots of associative tells. I can picture a smart tracker putting the pieces together by D2, if BBT is in fact scum like I presume.

[Csareo]

I have also found that people who claim before L-1 tend to be telling the truth.
Normally I would lynch Boonskies, but everyone and everything on and about his wagon is terribly off.
And I still don't see the evidence he's lying. Can you explain that part again?

[Csareo]

I never said BBT was going to make a kill. I never even said anything to imply that.

[Csareo]

Now give me this so called evidence that he is lying. Is the wagon in existence purely out of this assumption?

[Csareo]

I can picture a smart tracker putting the pieces together by D2, if BBT is in fact scum like I presume.

You did here.

Where in that quote did I say BBT would send out a NK?

[Csareo]

Restating what I said earlier, the Csareo wagon dissipated to fast, and the boonskies wagon reached L-1 to fast.

[Csareo]

Frustrating, is it not? I'm not really sure what actions you want massive to answer for.
As much as I'm annoyed with the guy, his only previous scum charge was lurking.
Now if BBT flips scum, then I'll be scum reading him.

[Csareo]

Fakegod, I still want you to answer my previous question.
What evidence do you have that boonskies was lying about being a tracker?

[Csareo]

Csareo and BBT - 1 each. BBT was scum the game I played with him.

I don't recall playing a game with you, unless it's an alt.

[Csareo]

Flubber always looks scummy, so I've kind of just rolled with it.
I've observed and played games with him, and so far only one game he's flipped scum.
In that game his meta is near identical to how it always is.

[Csareo]

That relies on the premise that scum think they're going to be lynched.
Faking a neighborhood is 100% possible, there just isn't any proof.

[Csareo]

I notice that a lot of newbie scum try to hardbus their scumbuddy, but again, I don't think that's the case.
All these questions would be answered with a BBT lynch.

[Csareo]

GC dropped his "Every post about Csareo" strategy. Ain't that a shocker.
Let's please lynch BBT.

[Csareo]

Are you saying an intent to vote is scummy?
Again with these bullshit interpretations of scum tells.
No more.

[Csareo]

No one should touch this scum infested wagon.
Ruffling, would you rather lynch BBT or Boonskies?

[Csareo]

I'm almost certain boonskies is town, for the same reasons I am certain BBT is scum.
I hate TTH's unvote, and that's what really has me on edge. I would like an explanation for that.
@Wake-Boonskies claimed tracker

[Csareo]

What really has me off is your one sided tunnels of the person you're voting for.
This is the main difference I saw between you and ruffling.
Ruffling seemed more intrested in finding scum, while you just wanted to push your wagon.

Yada Yada, has anyone here played with you before, and can they tell me your meta?

[Csareo]

Is Boonskiies unCC'd?

He wasn't CC'd

[Csareo]

I call for a decision. Anatole and Ruffling aren't flying under the radar any longer.
Especially anatole, who is hesitant to hop on any of the big wagons. I would like to see him make a decision, and ASAP.

[Csareo]

The "Intent to vote" is a bad reason to vote someone. I've done it plenty of times when putting someone at L-1 or L-2.
A real reason to vote boonskies is if you're town reading BBT, which is still a weak associative case.
And wake is right. Boonskies hasn't been CC'd, and there is no reason to be voting him right now.

[Csareo]

I'm sick of greencrayon's silly and ignorant arguments.

[Csareo]

A tracker is a role I see in most games.
I would of even defended boonskies if he was CC'd, because two trackers isn't uncommon either.

[Csareo]

Usually scum don't claim tracker. They try to claim doctor, and usually fail...
I notice that a common claim is jailkeeper, because they can fool people with the common mafia role, roleblocker.

[Csareo]

Fakegod made it clear he will hammer boonskies.
Everything about that wagon is off. Everything.

[Csareo]

Fakegod made it clear he will hammer boonskies.
Everything about that wagon is off. Everything.

Am I still the only person you're reading as scum on Boon's wagon?

Who I scum read is dependent on your flip.

[Csareo]

This is the scummiest damn wagon I have ever seen. God damn. There is absolutely no reason I should be lynched toDay, especially with the fact that I am pretty much NK bait now.

Why did you claim town PR the first time time instead of actually stating what your role was?

It makes you look like you needed time to think of a believable claim.

I was saying beforehand that I wasn't going to be able to keep up for the next half of the day. I didn't want to full claim in the case that I didn't have to. WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CLAIM TRACKER AS SCUM?!

Agreed, that doesn't make sense. Scum usually claim jailkeeper or vanilla townie.

[Csareo]

Who I scum read is dependent on your flip.

Csar isn't confident in his scumread on BBT.

He hasn't been for awhile now.

I'm absolutely confident in it.
Glad you know what I'm thinking though.

[Csareo]

I just haven't tunneled him as hard because this game has gotten plain sad.

[Csareo]

Csareo, you're basically pushing my lynch for information now.

That's two people with bullshit reasons trying to get me lynched and who are way too stubborn to look elsewhere.

I am certain you're scum, but I still think it would be silly to associate people with you before a flip.
People wouldn't take that seriously.

[Csareo]

I'm absolutely confident in it.

Nope.

Your refusal to place your life on the line in your read proved that wrong pages ago.

Because I think that is counter productive and scum motivated. But sure, at this point I'll self vote if we lynch BBT.

[Csareo]

I'll self vote if we lynch BBT

[Csareo]

I'm intrested in where fakegod will go with this.

[Csareo]

I, Csareo, will self-vote immediately and permanently if BBT flips town"

[Csareo]

Now that only is happening if BBT is lynched today.

[Csareo]

We gave you the deal last time. This close to the deadline, there can't be a 24 hour reset every time you reach L-1.

[Csareo]

I don't like the idea. From what I'm aware, you have nothing more to offer role wise, and the PT is an obvious dead end.

[Csareo]

I guess I'll wait for the morning.

[Csareo]

BBT, I advise you to full claim and paraphrase what your role PM says to the best of your abilities.

[Csareo]

What I'm saying is, I won't be lynched 12 hours from now if nobody else joins my wagon/states intent to.

I feel like my hand is being forced here.

It's a deadline lynch.

All of our hands are forced here.

Boonskies could be lynched just as easily

[Csareo]

Without revealing your partner(s), obviously.

Why not? A mason confirms his partner as town. A mason would explain a lot, including the staticity of his wagon.

[Csareo]

Hint to us who your partner is. Also explain how you recruited him.

[Csareo]

Heh. I'm going to take this moment to pat myself on the back.


Feels good.

Hold the applause. BBT had a lot of time on his hands, let's not forget.

[Csareo]

BBT, please explain how you recruited your partner. It is vital information. For all we know you quoted the scum PT and said it's the neighborhood.
It is odd to see a "neighbor" and "mason" together.

[Csareo]

There really is no confirmation here.
And the placement of text is off.
It could of also been edited. I don't know, but I'm less confident in my vote.

[Csareo]

This is really weird. A mason and a neighbor, but we don't know how he recruited his partner, and it's odd how he's a mason "With" the other player.
I've never seen anything like this before. I'm very confused.

[Csareo]

Your last post is from after the game started.

[Csareo]

@BBT, you also ommited 7+8+9

[Csareo]

Besides him quoting a PT, the whole thing seems off and like a lie. I don't know what to say, and if this is legit, I have no idea why a mod would allow it.
Has anyone played with a mason who recruits pre-game, and can BBT tell us how he recruited his partner?

[Csareo]

[align=][/align]This is all very confusing. I'm policy lynching BBT to end this bullshit.
Leaving him alive is town suicide at this point. We'll go nuts with paranoia.
Eh, the headaches coming already.

[Csareo]

BBT, tell us your partner.

[Csareo]

And there are two masons in the same game?

[Csareo]

And I don't like how there are admissions to wanting to lie to town in there.

[Csareo]

What are you even asking, Csar?

Masons don't come in singlets.

Usually a mason recruits other townies. There is almost never two masons in the same game.
One mason will recruit a player during the night phase, and if they're town, they can talk in private.
If one is scum, the mason is killed.

This isn't how masons work at all.

[Csareo]

When you said you were going to lie about a PR. And you're gloating now?
This is not making any sense.

[Csareo]

I don't like how BBT is acting smart like he's safe now.

[Csareo]

Well masons are different here.

[Csareo]

DOn't unvote, this is really strange and off. I'll take those 12 hours to reflect.

[Csareo]

Meh, I'm borderline believing it. It's really obvious who his partner would be 'if' it's true though. So I need to wait before unvoting.

Me too. I'm suspicious of its context, position in a normal game, and how this information was presented.
None of which negates my scum read. If scum thought of this claim, it is genius, I'll give them that.
I just hope I'm not be suckered.

[Csareo]

And under this context, I think he would be scum reading TTH.
At least if I were in his shoes and what he's saying is true.

[Csareo]

I'm keeping my vote up as an informational policy lynch.
I also don't like the idea of having a player in two private forums having conversations.
Especially since there were plots to fake PR's in the PT that is just now being presented to us.

[Csareo]

It is much more likely that you're scum and a neighbor (with associated PT's) than a pregame mason and a neighbor.

[Csareo]

Urgh, now he's taking my pride hostage.
What a shameful jackass. He acts incompetent 99% of the game and has the most unusual of claims up to this point.
The only reason to believe it is that he copied and pasted it with ease.

[Csareo]

Meh, I'm borderline believing it. It's really obvious who his partner would be 'if' it's true though. So I need to wait before unvoting.

Me too. I'm suspicious of its context, position in a normal game, and how this information was presented.
None of which negates my scum read. If scum thought of this claim, it is genius, I'll give them that.
I just hope I'm not be suckered.

Just let this sink in.

[Csareo]

I'm not doing this. I don't believe BBT's claim, and I think it is all to convenient, and in all the ways handled wrong.
Isn't it odd how it "Explained" everything that has happened so far. I'm supporting an informational policy lynch, not a town mislynch.

[Csareo]

This is rather shocking turn of events.

Which is why it's probably bullshit.

[Csareo]

This is rather shocking turn of events.

Which is why it's probably bullshit.

It's next to impossible to fake a second PT as he presented it.

You know this.

I don't think it was faked. I think parts were edited.
And this is another reason why I don't support the mods decision to allow pasting PT's.

[Csareo]

VOTE: no lynch
I'm not mislynching, even to meet the deadline.

[Csareo]

I'm a bit pissed off that the mod allowed him to do this though, and since I think it is lying, I'll be twice as pissed if he is scum.
Then it would be equivalent to cheating, and cheating ruins the integrity of the game.

[Csareo]

Fuck it, I'm sticking to my gut
VOTE: BBT

[Csareo]

Fuck it, I'm sticking to my gut
VOTE: BBT

That's good.

Now, convince them I'm scum.

I already have. They're blinded by you editing the scum PT.
I stand by my promise. If BBT is town I will permanently self vote.
Now if there was any productive mislynch, it would be this jackass.

[Csareo]

I swear by god almighty, BBT is not town. Pride has nothing to do with it.
And it wouldn't kill us to have him flip, of all people.

[Csareo]

WTF, I guess I'll explain more when the time is appropriate.
Just know that you're all making a big mistake.

[Csareo]

I would like to know the mason partner.

[Csareo]

This is another thing that has me. I once played a game where I pinned a fake claim plot, and the scum couldn't stop gloating that they had me fooled.
To me, BBT is a cocky ass piece of scum who's is a little over the hedge.

[Csareo]

WTF, I guess I'll explain more when the time is appropriate.
Just know that

you're all making a big mistake

.

[Csareo]

To be fair, I didn't pin the plot, but agreed with the guy who did.

[Csareo]

Stop the insults.

You're putting yourself at risk of modkill.

That would be a pleasant relief. Maybe my replacement can better explain why BBT is scum.

[Csareo]

This guy must be compensating for a very, very small dick.

[Csareo]

I'm going to sleep. BBT is confirmed scum, go on knowing that information, who gives a fuck anymore?!

[Csareo]

[Final Post for Day One]

[Csareo]

I'm going to sleep.

BBT is confirmed scum

, go on knowing that information, who gives a fuck anymore?!

[Csareo]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6235308'
You have copied and pasted the whole PT, so why couldn't you screenshot it?

@DoctorPepper, Can he do this

No, you cant screenshot it.

Thats irrevocable prrof of alignment

.

Mod Slip, my god, you are the best doctorpepper.

[Csareo]

I think it's clear that it isn't a neighborhood thread. There is also the possibility that BBT is a yakuza, or scum who look like masons