Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[DeathRowKitty]

9 confirms in 2 hours? I expect no less than 12 pages of posts by this time tomorrow.

Vote: TheTrollie

. I like where Om is going with this.

ps. you can call me Frog if you want or DRK or Kitty McKittens or anything else that makes sense. Also, I love each and every one of you in a unique way and I hope this makes all of you happy ^_^

[DeathRowKitty]

This is TheTrollie's profile. Note the avatar. Trolley cars do not regenerate. You are now free to ride the wagon, Elleran.

[DeathRowKitty]

New rule: no one is allowed to use the term "RVS" after this post. If you make a random vote, you can be judged on having made a random vote within the context of the gamestate when that vote was made. If you make a serious vote, you can be judged on having made a serious vote within the context of the gamestate when that vote was made. Trying to neatly divide the game into chunks and phases that it can't actually be divided into is already turning into a massive distraction. Capische? Ribbit.

---

Rondar stole my thunder of making the super awesome and serious Jennifer vote first, but I guess we can't all be trend-setters.

Unvote: TheTrollie

Vote: Jennifer

[DeathRowKitty]

Is there a reason for voting her other than to sheep Rondar?

Yes. Because she's scum. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

[DeathRowKitty]

Jennifer is scum for this post. Any other questions?

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm sorry babe, I'm just being intentionally obtuse, but you sound so rude all the time. Lighten up, dammit.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't know, do I seem dark or heavy? I thought I was just jolly.

(Also, "lighten up, dammit" is a reference to someone's signature.)

[DeathRowKitty]

(Also, "lighten up, dammit" is a reference to someone's signature.)

Errr...title. I meant title.

Re: stuff directed at me
I voted Jennifer because her initial sequence of two posts seems very dissonant to me. She comes in with what seems to be a serious vote:

@Dannflor Why are you avoiding the Trollie wagon? And why did you keep your vote on Slaandar when questioning Elleran for defending Trollie?

Then Dannflor gives a kinda strange explanation of an unexciting situation, votes Elleran, and Jennifer turns a 180 and votes Dannflor's target. What changed her mind? If Dannflor's explanation was enough to make Jennifer move her vote, I find it strange she wasn't voting Elleran over Dannflor to begin with. If Dannflor's vote for Elleran upon being asked why he was voting Elleran is what made her move her vote...well, I don't think I need to explain what would be strange about that.

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK, why did you change votes so quickly?

I don't know, man. I really thought my first vote was onto some deep mysteries of the universe and it pained me deeply to change it. If not for the wild hallucinations that told me to vote Jennifer instead, I probably would have ridden that Trollie vote to my grave.

Quid pro quo doc, why haven't you voted anyone? Do you feel your vote is better used doing nothing?

[DeathRowKitty]

Then Dannflor gives a kinda strange explanation of an unexciting situation, votes Elleran, and Jennifer turns a 180 and votes Dannflor's target. What changed her mind? If Dannflor's explanation was enough to make Jennifer move her vote, I find it strange she wasn't voting Elleran over Dannflor to begin with. If Dannflor's vote for Elleran upon being asked why he was voting Elleran is what made her move her vote...well, I don't think I need to explain what would be strange about that.

Now this I do see. But as I said before, Elleran did exactly the same thing, turning a 180 onto Trollies wagon based on something q21 said. It's exactly the same situation.

That was a non-serious vote. Trollie's hasn't posted.

[DeathRowKitty]

Alright, who do you think is scummier and why? Jenn of Elleran? I know it's obv Jenn but I'd like further explanation. I want to know exactly what your reads are on each oh them.

Elleran has some strange takes on theory, but theory is theory is

fun

irrelevant. His original kind of strange dealings with the TheTrollie wagon are something I might have voted him for in a vacuum as a let's-get-out-of-the-"random"-stage-by-jumping-on-the-first-small-thing kind of vote (in fact, my pointing out of Trollie's avatar was more of a reaction test than it was playing along with his joke), but taken in the context of what he said when pressed on it, I don't find it suspicious. I'd say I'm leaning slightly town on him.

Jennifer right now is suspecto numero uno for me. I have a suspecto numero dos, but I'd prefer to keep that under wraps for the time being. It makes me feel like a spy. I know you're jealous~

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK Do you buy Elleran's convoluted excuses versus reason explanation?

I don't see why it would be more likely to come from scum. He first brought up the excuses thing here, in response to an accusation that he was looking for an excuse for his RVS vote. Now, I'm just gonna throw this out there - it's somewhat ridiculous to think that someone was "looking for an excuse" to join a page 1 RVS wagon on someone that hadn't posted (oh noes, I just broke my own rule about using that term, pls lynch me with lots and lots of rope) in any sort of serious way. Elleran's subsequent responses indicate a perhaps not particularly healthy mindset for that stage of the game, but I absolutely believe that, regardless of his alignment, he actually believes what he posted about it. I suspect you're getting too caught up in the word "excuse", when he almost certainly only chose that word because Dannyflower used it first.

I don't particularly like the way DRK came in and almost seemed to be advocating for Rondar either. DRK did eventually give some explanation for voting Jennifer, but only after being asked a few times and playing stupid question stupid answer, which seems at odds with DRK's assertion that her (or his, I dunno) Jenn vote was serious - for all the there is a sliver (no more) of validity to DRK's eventually given reasons.Reads like scumbuddies, or scum buddying up to a townie. Either way the impression I get out of that exchange is that DRK is scummy.Getting board of my Elleran vote.UnvoteVOTE: DeathRowKitty

Hello, there. I would just like you to know that we will NOT be friends if you think there's something wrong with not always giving reasoning up-front. It's a shame because I was really hoping to make some friends this game. I wanted to build a snowman.

This game. Just... this game.Om, Why voting Slandaar? Rondar has posted little as well, as have I and joels and Trollie.Man, I have some questions I'll try to get to this evening.

I just want you to know that you seem like a very reasonable person with very reasonable things to say and I very much look forward to hearing what you have to say. Can we be townbuddies?



ps Om, this is a game and I think you should be happy and ----> calm <---- instead of angry. Please? :3

[DeathRowKitty]

Hey, Jennifer, are you around? If so, we should have a nice chat about the current goings-on.

[DeathRowKitty]

What about Dannyflower's post do you agree with?

[DeathRowKitty]

See, it took me a good couple minutes to decipher the post you just made (pre-post edit: the post you made before the post you just made) because I read the first two pieces of your post that you quoted, looked back at Danflower's 87, wondered what the fajitas you were smoking that made you see those things in his post 87 and got super-jealous of it, then read the third quote, thought for like 30 seconds that you were adding that to what you believed, and only then realized you meant that you agreed with a single statement in Danflower's 87 and expected anyone to realize that.

[DeathRowKitty]

It reminds me of aniperv really. He has this really stupid habit of responding to things people say by quoting something with no explanation that the person clearly read and deemed irrelevant.

[DeathRowKitty]

Meow~

[DeathRowKitty]

Does that mean you no longer think Slanderer is scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

No, it appears we aren't going to be friends if you aren't willing to explain yourself,

Well actually I did explain myself and you even summarized my explanation when you brought this up the first time, so I know you've read it. Note that this does not mean I want to be friends.

I have no idea where you get reasonable person with reasonable things to say off of GM's posting? Her posting has primarily seemed scattered and disjoint and largely lacking in reasoning. This comment is buddying and nothing else, which smells a little off to me.

Perhaps you're just not reading the right things

Also, how do you plan to build a snowman in the midde of summer?

I now know you live in the northern hemisphere~

Emphasis on was and I'm feeling lot better about him now due to whole exchange.

When exactly did you start feeling better about him, in terms of posts? It seems like your unvote came out of nowhere in the context of your posts.

[DeathRowKitty]

@q21
That was a typo. I meant "don't live in". Also, I fail to see how my explanation wasn't "timeous". Did anything happen in-between my vote for Jennifer and my explanation of that vote that made my explanation some sort of urgent matter?

Hey, Jennifer, are you around? If so, we should have a nice chat about the current goings-on.

Here now. What's up?

The moment passed a long time ago, but I guess this works too.

I was interested at the time in discussing the Om-Slandaar situation with you and I think we can still do that.

When Om originally voted Slandaar, I didn't really think much of his post and I don't think there's anything wrong with it in a vacuum. It's a sparse post for the amount of content that had been posted since he was last in the thread, but hey, some people don't post about every single thing all the time, y'know? But anyway, the fact that that post (his first "real" post of the game) heavily focused on Slandaar to the exclusion of most of what had happened and led to an instant tunnel seems kind of strange - it almost makes it seem as though he was working from an agenda rather than looking for scum. Of course it's not that simple though. Aggressively coming out of left field on someone that no one else is looking at? Is that what scum do these days? I don't know. What do you think of Om's initial vote --> tunnel, given the circumstances?

More importantly at this point, what do you make of Om's unvote? You never commented on it and it makes me sad that you seem not to care about things people do if those people aren't Elleran.

[DeathRowKitty]

OH GOD, I FORGOT TO ASK. Are you Town???[...]Yeah, I can be a very reasonable person when I think of very reasonable things to say. Sometimes it's more fun to introduce massive levity.

I'm town. And you are too, or so it seems. I can't tell if you took my comment about you being reasonable to be sarcastic or not, but it was mostly serious - you say a lot of off-topic-y things, but you seem to have a decent sense of what's important when you're saying things that are relevant. I'm pretty good at posting lots of off-topic-y things when I want to so even if you don't want to be townbuddies, I'm sure we can work something out.


In other news

Unvote: Jennifer

Vote: Om

This wagon needs to happen. It would be practically criminal to let him get away with the most awkward jump-off-the-burning-ship unvote ever.

Early as it is to be talking about pairings, this probably means Jennifer and Om aren't scum together. Not worth dwelling on now, but if one of them dies and flips scum, it's definitely something to keep in mind.

[DeathRowKitty]

That Om vote is the first genuinely townie thing you've done, DRK. Lets see if its a turning of the corner or just an abberation.

Uhhh...?

@DRK I'm not feeling the Om wagon. How does his unvote seem scummy to you? He had quite a few posts after his initial vote where he was pressing on Slaandar.

It just doesn't make sense at all in relation to the rest of his posts. Look at Om's iso. Up until his unvote in iso #9, he hadn't said anything not about Slandaar without direct prompting to do so since he'd started posting about him in iso #1. The only somewhat positive thing he said about Slandaar was an edit he made to his unvote post before posting it. The unvote was absolutely out of nowhere. Imagine you were eating pretzels and you reached into the bag and pulled out a sock. That sock is Om's unvote and that bag of pretzels in Om's posts. If you disagree though, just read his next two posts. It doesn't look like even he knows what he's saying in that first post. Did he unvote because he was feeling better about Slandaar or because other people have told him Slandaar is town and he wants to read Slandaar's games first? Of course, all that goes away when he makes the second post 9 minutes later. He's made up his mind by then - Slandaar looks townish and it would be pointless to vote someone who's already explained himself.

It's gonna take a hell of a lot to convince me that any of that came from a townie. If he'd unvoted Slandaar and instantly voted a second scum read on which he thought his vote was better placed, then maybe....but unvoting Slandaar in the midst of saying all sorts of thing he finds scummy about him and then coming up with a combination of quickly-changing reasons for doing so? We wanted pretzels and we got a sock. Lynch the pretzel company.

Mod: Tag's fixed

[DeathRowKitty]

Errr....url tag fail -_- So much for the aesthetics of that post....

[DeathRowKitty]

@joel
Have you been following along with the game or did you just happen to be online when Jennifer posted?

[DeathRowKitty]

.....what?

[DeathRowKitty]

I interpreted his post to mean that Om hadn't cast any votes, which is still wrong.

[DeathRowKitty]

I've skimmed the stuff since my last post. I'll post something more productive tonight when I've actually slept in the past 24 hours, but for now it looks like there are a lot of trivial misunderstandings causing a big fuss. The frog don't like it >: (

[DeathRowKitty]

@Drk; Your vote is on me because you think you need to lynch me or you want me to explain why I unvoted? I've already done the latter in my follow up post. As for why I didn't vote someone else is because I was too tired and in not so friendly mood due to my exchange with Eldaar.

The former, unless you magically come up with a believable townish explanation of the latter. Unvoting your top suspect without having anyone new to vote and while still seemingly calling him scum just does not happen. I can't see a townish mindset in which it would happen, I don't think I've ever seen it happen, your explanations don't make any reasonable sense of why it would happen. Add that to your contradictory follow-up posts and...well...let's just say it makes me feel like you would look cute with a rope tied around your neck. And not in the good way.


The Ztrife-Om vote exchange seems really awkward from both sides. I have a feeling that interaction will be useful to look back on later


I feel like there's a rather large ongoing theory disconnect between Elleran and...multiple other players (I think that might be what I was referring to in my last post, but I don't actually remember.). Or at the very least, there are some wording things going on that seem to be getting lost in communication. These issues started within the first few pages with the whole reasons vs excuses debate; now we seem to have it again with the town-looking-for-reasons thing. For the moment, I'm definitely at least leaning town on Elleran. I'm not really sure how to explain why (and I don't think it would be particularly useful with only one vote on him anyway), but I feel like a lot of his play feels very natural if you get past the wording and theory oddities. I don't know. Certainly not my strongest read in either direction.


Blah blah blah other stuff OKAY IMPORTANT STUFF NOW. I would like to speak on the subject of JOEL. I would like to, but the guy doesn't post any content so there's barely anything to say about him. When he does post, we get nothing out of him but weakly-stated positions. It feels like he's been trying very hard to give the impression that he's active lurking, but not posting enough to do so, which reminds me very much of a dead squirrel trying to convince a dog he's actually a flea. I don't like dead squirrels and I don't like dead squirrels that try to pose as fleas.
...Man that explanation got off track quickly. Other than the fact that I don't think he's *trying* to appear like he's active lurking, hopefully it's clear enough anyway.

Unvote: Om

Vote: joelsdaman1

I haven't forgotten about you Om. I just think we need to go our separate ways for the time being. Really though, it's not you; it's me. I feel like life is passing me by and I need to explore my other opportunities while I still have the chance. We're young, but we're not young enough. We're never young enough. That's just kind of how life goes, isn't it? I truly and sincerely will miss you. Please don't doubt that. I hope that some day in the future, we will be reunited. Please don't doubt that. Even now, it pains me to know that such a reuniting is all I have to look forward to in our future and I really wish it not be bittersweet if and when it should come. Thank you for the good times and great memories. I can think of no one I would rather have shared them with and, given the chance to do it over, I would choose to share them with you again. I hope you can find it in your heart to not think too ill of me for this. I love you.
~Frog

[DeathRowKitty]

I think the terrible dead squirrel analogy was trying to say some of what you're asking me, but lemme try to clarify it -

A dead squirrel can't actually try to convince a dog that it's a flea. Squirrels aren't very good at acting, y'know? And dead squirrels are dead.
I don't imagine dogs are huge fans of dead squirrels (actually...maybe they do...i don't know much about dogs; let's just assume they don't), but they're really just a passive annoyance. But oh how dogs must hate fleas. Why a dead squirrel would want a dog to think it was a flea is absolutely beyond me, even if it were possible.

Replace "dead squirrel" with lurker, "a dog" with "the other players", and "flea" with "active lurker".



...that doesn't make any more sense, does it?

joel's posts feel like active lurking. They're not, since he's not actually maintaining any sort of facade of activity, but with the right time compression of his posts within an appropriately scaled-down game, they could be.

I think that's what I was trying to say...

[DeathRowKitty]

@Mod: I probably need a replacement as I'm caught with something in RL and I won’t be able to pay any time for OL stuff for quite a while (2-3 weeks at least), sorry for the trouble.

I really hope this has nothing to do with us :/ I'm sorry, babe.

[DeathRowKitty]

honestly, too long a RVS (and discussion about getting out of it while still mucking around) for me to see any discussions worth pointing out, at least for most parts of the 1st 10 pages IMHO.

...10?

[DeathRowKitty]

If I'd spent 2 paragraphs asking you if you really thought the first 10 pages were RVS, would you consider it to be a more useful post?

[DeathRowKitty]

Can we not quote entire posts in order to post 3 words about them? Some posts could definitely benefit from not requiring a scroll bar.

[DeathRowKitty]

I hate the way Trollie and Slaandar are playing. I don't hate them just their playstyle. Mainly because it makes them impossible to read. When you go "XXX is scum. YYY is town. Nuff Said."... you can't read that at all. Plus you have no idea why this person thinks so and so is scum. While I don't want to discredit their gut reads, it would be nice if they opened up a little and explained their reads a bit more. Just saying, it makes it a lot easier for town to scum hunt. That said, no reads on Trollie yet, Slaandar is leaning town, mainly from his interaction with Om...

I agree with literally everything in this post.

I'm occasionally a gut player (or maybe I was at some point and now I'm not anymore) so I can certainly understand playing from gut BUT if you just say "lol x is scum" without any attempt to tie it to some sort of reasoning that anyone else can follow, it's just noise. I'm not saying it even has to be anything solid - if you take a post and isolate one small part of the wording or highlight something you think seems wrong and say "this part feels off; I don't know why, but it does", that gives other players

something

to go off of. It means we can look at that part you highlighted and use that as a stepping stone to seeing the post in the same light in which you're seeing it or maybe even put some sort of words or hard reasoning to it.

I've stopped reading posts in this game that say things without giving me any sort of way to understand the conclusion. They're not worth the time to make sense of and it's not worth the time to press an explanation out of each and every unexplained read. If such a poster really cares about having people listen and agree with their positions, they'll attempt with some better way of explaining it eventually (conversely, if such a poster makes no attempt to do so, that too speaks volumes).

I'm not trying to say that anyone is behaving

exactly

as described, but Slandaar and Trollie specifically do each exhibit some subset of these symptoms.

[DeathRowKitty]

Is there any reason in voting to lynch joels over TheTrollie?

I find joel is scummier. I assume your answer to the reverse question would be something that boils down to you finding TT scummier.

I'm not really leaning either way on TT right now, which is probably because I've barely skimmed most of his posts. They're loud and they disturb my inner peace. Yes, I value my inner peace very highly.

[DeathRowKitty]

Post 306 seemed to be implying that TheTrollie was a better lynch largely because you felt his lynch would give us more information than a joel lynch. I guess I should have said this explicitly in my previous post, but my somewhat tongue-in-cheek reply that I prefer the joel wagon because I think he's scummier than TheTrollie was meant to be an implicit counterpoint to which wagon would give us more information.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Trollie
Regarding this, now that Om has replaced out, was there anything specific you were hoping to see in Om's posts that would help to betray his alignment? Also, were you fully caught up at that point? It seems like you were, but it's hard to tell because you skipped straight from commenting on the first few pages to posting only on current events and never addressed pages 5-9 or so.

[DeathRowKitty]

Psyche, when you're done reading, tell me what you think of Ztife. Your predecessor seemed not to like him very much.

[DeathRowKitty]

I was hoping the joel wagon would force him into taking hard stances when he posted. I do find him scummy, but I wouldn't have wanted my vote on him over Om if I expected him to just disappear (my strange breakup thing in my unvote post was an intentionally cryptic way of saying I planned on revoting Om) Sad frog is sad. Wouldn't be against a ztrife wagon, but meh. Actually, yeah.

Unvote: joelsdaman1

Vote: ztrife

[DeathRowKitty]

Damn it, I'm just realizing now how much I've disengaged myself from this game. Jennifer, when the hell did you become town?

[DeathRowKitty]

ooor...I'm looking at who jumps on for bad reasons....since, you know, I'm town.

You'll probably think I'm stupid for asking you this and you are allowed, should you be so inclined, to call me an idiot a maximum of 3 times in your response to this, but....
If you were someone other than yourself, what would you look at in your posts that would tell you that you were town? Would anything in your iso seem strange to you?

[DeathRowKitty]

VOTE: q21
Well, at least D2 is easy.

Okay.

Vote: q21

I doubt it was scum who killed him btw, unless he hinted at a PR somewhere. >.>

Why's that? And who's to say there aren't two scum teams or a scum team and a serial killer?

[DeathRowKitty]

Guess I have to explain it for the not as smart as me's....

It's fairly easy. I'm playing the simple odds game. Near 100% chance odds say 1 scum was on Elleran's wagon. Very good odds (above 50%) say 2 scum were on Elleran's wagon. Let's look at the wagon.

Slandaar,

TheTrollie

, goodmorning, q21, Nachomamma8,

Dannflor

,

Kthxbye

I have a town read on Slandaar. Leaning town on Nacho's slot. That leaves q21 and goodmorning. Neither of which give me town vibes. Could easily see both being scum after goodmorning's comment here post 438.

Q's jump back onto Elleran, post 393, is forced.

Bam, scum caught, you're welcome.

Maaaan.

I followed your vote thinking it was either based on some sort of night action result or based on literally nothing useful at all. (Yes, following a vote based on nothing useful sounds like a good way to kick of day 2 to me.) Now I'm disappointed.

Aside from that, dude, we need to talk. Are you telling me you spent all day 1 doing nothing of any value whatsoever because you "hate D1's" and that there's a side of you that actually attempts to do useful things that you purposely suppress early on so as to not to have to deal with the game? Not to have to actually participate in something you committed yourself to participating in and that 12 other players are expecting you to take seriously? Ignoring the VCA, there were other things in your pots. Would you not have been able to make an argument with

sane

reasoning day 1 like you did with the Jennifer thing? Not that I'm a big fan of

s

a

n

i

t

y

but could you have given us

something

day 1 other than "I'M A-JUMPIN' ON THE BIG WAGONS, PREPARE YOURSELVES BECAUSE MY HAMMER IS FUCKING HUGE", Mr. Lazy McLazybones?

And for the record, that dress is fucking hideous on you and yes, you do look fat.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, I almost forgot...

Unvote: q21

Grumble grumble snarf.

[DeathRowKitty]

pots

AND I BET YOU DON'T WATER YOUR FUCKING FLOWERS, SCUMBAG

[DeathRowKitty]

Make sure that post includes what you think of your predecessor. If it doesn't, I'll have to do dirty things to you, such as asking you what you thought of your predecessor.

[DeathRowKitty]

Massclaiming is awful here:

If we have a vig and he claims, he's confirmed town and dies tonight (this also forces him to take his second and only shot of the game tonight to bring us back to odd numbers). Unless of course we have a doctor who claims and marks himself for death instead. Then our vig can die two nights from now.

If we have a vig and he doesn't claim, then for what reason are we massclaiming? We have 10 players left and 3 vanilla town flips with nothing obvious in the setup to hint at anything except a vig.

If the vig is actually an SK, he simply doesn't claim a killing role and starts rolling through town power roles at night.


Power roles are stronger the longer they stay alive. This massclaim is not happening unless someone has something significantly more solid than let's reveal all our power roles.

---

Vote: Ztife

Kthxbye is very likely town. I'm pretty much dead null on q21. Ztife has done nothing but opportunistically jump on two easy targets with a minimum of explanation. In conclusion: Ztife for president, vote for

Pedro

Ztife

[DeathRowKitty]

There are 10 living players. Even if you're 100% sure there's scum in that group of 5 players, it means nothing.

[DeathRowKitty]

Hey, Kthx, do you think all scum were on the wagon? Because, y'know, if you don't, it means there's at least 1 scum out of 5 people on the wagon and at least 1 scum out of 5 people off the wagon. It's kind of like symmetry, in that it's exactly the same and probabilistically, it doesn't matter one bit whether we lynch on or off the wagon. Whoa. And either way, we could say we were lynching based on the person's position with regards to the wagon.

Whoa

Even if the above wasn't true, the fact that there was a wagon day 1 does not in any way necessitate lynching someone that was on it. I vote scummy people, not someone-in-a-group-of-5-people-out-of-which-I-suspect-there-is-at-least-one-scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

OK We are massclaiming

Vig needs to claim first.

If there is no vig claim there is an SK and any future vig claims will be lynched as such.

You produce a better reason than "I WANT TO KNOW WHO OUR PR'S ARE" or this idea dies

now

. Failure to produce a reason or to drop this may as well be a scum claim.

[DeathRowKitty]

Massclaims
on day 2
are
inherently
stupid.

The fact no.
The conf...no
The chance of no.

Claiming we are not.

My position in this massclaim is no because it is not happening.

If we have a vig, no.

Unvote: Ztife

Vote: Slandaar

100% serious about this vote. A massclaim right now does absolutely 100% nothing except out PRs for scum to take aim at and it is not happening.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yeah, no, everything you said in that post is bullcrap.

Losing one PR tonight to the vig/scum is the same as letting the scum know who the PR's are to shoot tonight it is LITERALLY THE SAME THING and the odds of that happening are actually fairly high scum having a 3/7 or 3/6 without PR considerations if not 4/7 4/6 then vig is 2/8 or 3/8 ... this means if we don't lynch scum today odds we lose a PR best case is 3/7 and 1/4 which is eh like 16/28

Did you know that if we massclaim, the odds we lose a power role tonight are 28/28? 28/28 is a bigger number than 16/28, so clearly is must be better, right?


But that's okay, you covered that in your post. Scum could have a rolecop, so it's possible that this role that there's some non-zero chance they have happened to investigate a town power role in the one night it's had a chance to action. Therefore scum might hit a PR tonight. Where did this scum rolecop idea even come from?



Massclaim still not happening.

[DeathRowKitty]

It's okay Slandaar, one day you can sit at the big boy logic table. One day when you're smarter.

[DeathRowKitty]

And for the record, if we have a vig, he/she shouldn't even be shooting tonight unless there's a good chance he/she's going to die. We're currently on evens. Vig gets one more shot. It should be as late as possible without risking premature death.

[DeathRowKitty]

I have decided

that Slandaar is scum

and scum have a rolecop. Probably.

You mentioned a scum rolecop twice as a reason massclaim was beneficial. The hilarious irony in this is the second thing you said in your long failpost:

He is basically trying to stand up for whats generally considered standard while clearly not thinking about the situation

So tell me, what if instead of a rolecop, scum have the more popular ROLEBLOCKER. Well shit man, that would suck, wouldn't it? But no, scum have a ROLECOP. Where would that speculation even come from?

[DeathRowKitty]

Slandaar, you have awoken a sleeping FROGGIANT.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh man oh man oh man oh man

HERE BE SLANDAAR'S ISO

After his iso #4, in which he talks to Dannflor, plus or minus like 2 posts where he gives a sentence in direct response to someone, he doesn't talk to ANYONE except Om, kthx, and Elleran for the ENTIRE rest of the day. Oh yeah, you were definitely actually scumhunting Slandaar.

Most definitely

[DeathRowKitty]

Come on back Slandaar, I miss you. We have so much to talk about.

[DeathRowKitty]

I even have some

flowers

for you




Won't you celebrate Valentine's Day with me?

[DeathRowKitty]

I already said its a trade of odds and due to the ridiculously high odds we lose a PR anyway its a fantastic trade to narrow odds of lynch/vig scum.

Okay, okay, here's a scenario for you:

we run someone up to L-1.

They claim.

If they claim VT, MC wouldn't have done anything.
If they claim a PR, well wow, we just got the scummiest person to claim first.

It's like, amazing. It's almost as if massclaim doesn't help us at all and you didn't think this through at all from a town perspective. It's so weird.

[DeathRowKitty]

But let's ignore our argument for now, we can finish it later today, okay? There's just one thing I want to hear from you:

Why a rolecop?

[DeathRowKitty]

You are a good person <3

[DeathRowKitty]

Ummm...

I really hope I don't have to guide you through why scum having a roleblocker would make massclaim even worse.

[DeathRowKitty]

If by "interacted with other", you mean "gave a one sentence response to something that had just been posted in one or two of your posts", then sure, you interacted with other people.

[DeathRowKitty]

OK this is the best way to explain this; if town have an rb and scum don't this then swings hugely in favour of massclaimThere is no way to know such a thingTherefore the possibilities like this balance out throughout the many variations of setup this could be.

You missed the logical conclusion of this line of thought:

Therefore, we should make arguments in favor of massclaim that use the possible existence of a scum rolecop as an important factor in why massclaim is good.

[DeathRowKitty]

I can post a picture of a stuffed frog holding an apple instead if you want. I'll claim it's me holding the apple though because I'm a frog.

But no, I spampost and post images when I get too excited. And oh man do you excite me Slandaar. Mmmmmmmmm.

[DeathRowKitty]

i c u thar, mod

Mod: It's funny and you know it

[DeathRowKitty]

Is there any record of DRK doing this posting binge/picture spam thing in the past? Has DRK expressed any suspicion of Slandaar in the past, or is this OMGUS?

This is the first example that comes to mind (starting from iso #33) of me bingeposting/pictureposting. I haven't played much in the past 2 years and I don't care to go looking back through old games to see where else I might or might not have done it. I know I've posted pictures of apples/frogs/frogs with apples in a few games in the past.

As for whether I expressed prior suspicion of Slandaar or this was OMGUS, I made my suspicion clear here, before he voiced any suspicion of me. This is going to sound stupid, possibly because it is, but the impression I was getting off of him was that of someone quietly whispering to stray townies about massclaim under the voice of objections - like a clichéd scene of a single underling secretly staging a rebellion against a Big Brother-esque watching-you kind of Man. That was what prompted my "Failure to produce a reason or to drop this may as well be a scum claim." I figured that by that point, a townie would be willing to explain the merits of this plan he so firmly believed in, instead of completely ignoring disagreement and hoping a hypothetical vig would suicide out of nowhere by claiming in response to his demand. His response was to give a possible benefit of a massclaim that ignored the primary objections that had been publicly raised and to more or less call me scum. Ergo, vote.



Also, happy birthday kthx. I got you a cake but then I ate it and now I hate myself because frogs aren't supposed to eat cake

[DeathRowKitty]

kwll, do you have any reads outside of your Slandaar read?

Also, what's your avatar a picture of? I'm unfamiliar with a lot of your human culture. A lot of people think I'm uncultured, but I just think I'm a frog.

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK just woke up and already misses being asleep. DRK thinks never having to sleep would be great though. It's such a love-hate relationship. If it was an all-love relationship, maybe DRK would have tried asking sleep to be FrogValentine. DRK would have been disappointed because sleep isn't even a physical thing and can't be anyone's Valentine.

---

So this doc claim is just about the shadiest doc claim I've seen in the past half hour:

I am the doc obviously so time to massclaim.

He's "obviously" the doc and his night action is so irrelevant he forgot to claim it (btw, he should do this). Also, pushing himself as conftown for doctor + vig is *what?*. My only modded game had a vig with no doctor. (It was probably a bit scum-sided, but that was in the era of 12p minis and I think I gave scum too much power, not town too little. Let's not dwell on the past though. If we do, we'll be just like me and we wouldn't want that, would we precious?) Do I want to lynch him today now? No. Well...yes, but no. Well, yes....okay, no.

Unvote: Slandaar

But really yes...

Massclaim is still not a good idea today.

Vote: Ztife

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't like Ztife wagon as 2 people I get scum vibes from are on it.....

Do you think either of them would be a good lynch? You don't have a vote out atm, so now would be a good time to dig up something solid on one of them. If you're fast enough, you can even do it before either of them get back from V/LA!

I am not sure if this tatty with Nacho and slandaar is vaild or am I being dazzled?

That depends what you mean by "valid" and "dazzled". Is something about this situation

truly truly truly outrageous

?
Do you think Nacho is scum? Do you think he's your mamma(8)? Do you still want to lynch Slandaar?

And by the way, it doesn't elude me that you ignored this. That hurts </3

Damn Q21 for leaving me so. I'll find a new thing to do.

You could be working with Kthx to work out reasons for the rest of us to find his scummy. Again, bonus points if you do it before he's done with his V/LA (it ends today, so you'll have to be fast if you want bonus points).

Mod, if you haven't done so already, a prod on Ztife?

[DeathRowKitty]

Thank you <3

[DeathRowKitty]

This is one of the first interesting points raised against Jenn that I've noticed. Can you provide more examples of her doing this or is this a spurious statement made purely to defend yourself?

Don't worry, I took a minute out of my life to check for you. No, she hasn't done that in other votes....and I don't even think she did it with that vote.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is one of the first interesting points raised against Jenn that I've noticed. Can you provide more examples of her doing this or is this a spurious statement made purely to defend yourself?

Don't worry, I took a minute out of my life to check for you. No, she hasn't done that in other votes....and I don't even think she did it with that vote.

Could have done that myself. The point was to see what Ztife was going to say about it.

Sorry. I actually considered the possibility you were doing that and probably shouldn't have responded...but I was sufficiently confused at you labeling it as a good point that I wanted an excuse to say I disagreed with it. Well, excuses and pretenses down, what vote would you have expected out of Jennifer after that post? Am I missing something in it that would make her any more likely to vote anyone except Ztife?

[DeathRowKitty]

A Nacho vote? Her accusation on Nacho depended completely on Ztife being scum(my)!

[DeathRowKitty]

Tonight I will be
The meteorite that crashes
Down into this thread.


...don't worry about the wording I used there, I just wanted to post that in haiku form. I will be back in this thread tonight. Looking for brains. Preferably my own. I can't seem to find it anywhere Pls help, me so dumb

[DeathRowKitty]

In fact I am so dumb that I can't count to 7...............................................................

FAILFROG IS FAIL

[DeathRowKitty]

Nacho, tell me who to vote.

It can be anyone except Psyche.

Show me the scenic route. Show me a path I can take while enjoying the flowers.

No, not flowers. Flowers may for precious seconds hold the eyes, but the mind is not so simply taken.

Give me a blade. A blade as sharp and as cold as death itself. A blade wrought of good intentions but with a will all its own. A blade that will do no good.
Yes. Yes. Nothing better can pierce the mind than that which may pierce the flesh. I know now what I seek.

This post started out game-relevant...

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't even know if he is.

I think or maybe think or want to think [x], so much so that I want to ignore [y]...[x] and [y] aren't actually mutually exclusive but I don't think [x] and [y] are both true. Then there's [z], which replaced [w], which is really just switching [x] and [y] and it feels wrong but maybe I'm just seeing things? I don't think I am but

I'm bad at this game

. It makes me want to VOTE: , by which I mean I already wanted to VOTE: and this barely affects VOTE: at all.

So...that's where I am right now...

[DeathRowKitty]

I guess...

[DeathRowKitty]

Meow.

Unvote: Ztife

Vote: q21

I am an empty vessel. Some would take this path of their own choosing; others do not have a choice. A vessel with too many holes does not fill.

[DeathRowKitty]

The goodmorning wagon is sudden and fail. And Slandaar used his "Lynch him/her/this/it" line about it. I say that should automatically disqualify it from consideration at all, or Slandaar might wrongly start to think people take him seriously.

Vote: Goodmorning

Time to claim.

Still not liking kthx.

^Would anyone like to tell me this deserves rope any less than goodmorning? It's his third vote of the game and his third amazingly opportunistic vote of the game. See the pattern? I do.

Unvote: q21

Vote: Ztife

[DeathRowKitty]

Unofficial Vote Count

[5] Goodmorning: q21, Slandaar, Psyche, Kthxbye, Ztife
[3] Ztife: Jennifer, Goodmorning, DeathRowKitty,
[1] Slandaar: Kwll,
[1] q21: Nachomamma8,

Not Voting: No One


Let's not have any premature hammers in here, okay?

[DeathRowKitty]

OM and kthx vote were opportunistic? Explain.

Let's do a fun little exercise. You look at your votes and tell me why I think they're opportunistic.

*VOTE COUNT*

Well jeez, I coulda told you that. And by the way, it's better to have a votecount every day, especially when votes have been changed, than to wait until you can put a votecount in the perfect spot on a page. I figured you just hadn't been around to post one, but not posting one because you were waiting for a page to finish is just terrible.

[DeathRowKitty]

That came off meaner than I meant it to. Sorry. I'm just a bit grumpy :<

Mod: it's cool the main problem is that when i got on we were like 6-7 posts from a new page and that's kinda the place where i start to call it in-between useless and bump-able

[DeathRowKitty]

They aren't. That's all.

Just to clarify, are you saying that they aren't opportunistic votes or that you can't figure out why I would think they are?

[DeathRowKitty]

Both

I see. That's interesting. You called my vote on you just now opportunistic. What about my vote was opportunistic?

[DeathRowKitty]

Both

I see. That's interesting. You called my vote on you just now opportunistic. What about my vote was opportunistic?

Where's your case?

Ah, thank you for your participation in our little game. Let's see an instant replay:

You literally can not understand why I would consider your votes on Om or Kthxbye opportunistic but you think my vote on you is opportunistic for not having a case, eh? Here was your vote on Om. Here was your vote on Kthxbye. Each of those posts is literally the first time you'd mentioned the player you were then voting for. Can't see why I'd think they were opportunistic, huh?

For the record, not having a "case" isn't really what I found your votes opportunistic for. But that's okay, because you think they're opportunistic for that reason and who am I to argue?

[DeathRowKitty]

I AM NOW AFK FOR LIKE AN HOUR AND THEN I WILL COME BACK AND SCREAM AT PEOPLE ABOUT HOW GOODMORNING WAGON IS NOT BESTWAGON. It probably means I'll have to actually read Psyche's recent posts on goodmorning in full (ewwww) instead of skimming them, but apparently you're supposed to do that anyway when you're playing mafia.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'm going to preface this by not saying the thing I was going to say to preface this.

Err...and then I'm going to post the content of this post after I do things I wasn't going to do before posting it.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'm here. I mean, one would think I'm always "here" as seem from my own point of view, but I'm not entirely convinced. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced in that sense of the word that I am "here" right now. I am, however, in the process of making this post.


Okay, so the GM thing: the case on her is

silly

. Absolutely

silly

.

Let me pretty much summarize the basics of this case:"Well VCA and plus your vote on Slandaar/subsequent attempt at justification was stupid."

This description somehow became a major point of contention later on and part of Psyche's case on goodmorning. Well uhh..I must be blind because this is exactly what the case on her was? "But but but semantics!" No, this is exactly what the case on her was.

But then there's this whole big explosion of Psyche saying goodmorning is scummy based on theory differences while accusing her of voting someone on theory differences and I don't think people (Psyche included) are even aware of what the case is about: at its core, this whole thing started over people thinking goodmorning's Slandaar vote was scummy. Full stop. That is what the case is about now. Full stop. Whaaa? Froggy, you must be off the deep end after having lots all reading comprehension skills! And you're dumb! Well fine, I'm definitely dumb but hear me out on this...

Psyche's case boils down to:
1) not liking goodmorning's vote
2) not believing her justifications for her vote
3) stuff he started imagining when he was sufficiently tunneled

So yeah, this is all about thinking her vote is scummy because if you remove that element, the justifications fall into place and 3) has never even existed in the first place. And yes, when you ignore semantics and get over theory disagreements, she has justified her vote adequately. Just look for the big implicit "and he wouldn't believe that as town" sign. It's in flashing neon lights right next to the flashing neon "goodmorning isn't scummy" sign.

Just to give a mention to 3) though...seriously, are we going to equate "My opinions haven't changed and I want my suspects to post." with "I am passionless about this game."

Silly

.

Also, this post is town. No, you may not argue it. You may read it over and over again until you agree with me.

---

Honestly, I feel dirty for this post, but

can we not lynch one of my top townreads

?

[DeathRowKitty]

Errr..."lots" should be "lost". Pretend it is so.

[DeathRowKitty]

[DeathRowKitty]

~Meow~

[DeathRowKitty]

Frogthing, seriously? Everything you've said is completely false. And demonstrably so. If I have to, I will go point by point and show you why. But why should I have to when it is RIGHT THERE.

Then yes, go point by point. Argue every bit of semantics a second time. I assure you it is worth your time.

[DeathRowKitty]

I really don't have anything useful to say at the moment...Psyche and his cult will follow his case to the end of time, I don't think anyone takes what Slandaar is saying seriously because it's hilariously stupid. I was kind of just waiting for Jennifer to get back and determine the fate of today. With her current position on goodmorning, goodmorning will not be lynched today. The case on her is therefore useless and people from her wagon should start choosing

real

wagons to join.

That is all.

[DeathRowKitty]

Me? I would like to see Ztife lynched. It's why I'm voting him. Who do you want to see lynched?

[DeathRowKitty]

Nacho, is this based off of a meta read on him or is it based off of his posts in this game? Yes, this is important to know.


I'd be willing to compromise onto q21. I've had less of a read on him than probably anyone else in the game up to this point, but this was interesting. Any time he mentions Elleran except in that single post (plus or minus RVS shenanigans), it involves finding Elleran scummy. Then suddenly, for one post, he'd thought Elleran's scumminess was playstyle-related. I don't know that the rest of what Nacho said about him was very relevant, but that was a very interesting pickup.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually...

Unvote: Ztife

Vote: q21

[DeathRowKitty]

Just as a warning, that's L-1. I think.

Okay yes, it is definitely L-1. I double-checked.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think we should drag day 2 out to the deadline. Given the circumstances, I think day 2 has already outlived its usefulness in a way that only day 3 can cure.

[DeathRowKitty]

Grarhr

Words will be said. Things will be thought.

In an hour and a half or so when I have more than like 2 minutes.

Grarhrhrhrhhr

[DeathRowKitty]

Holy Magikarp this game exploded. I'll comment on it a bit later

and I won't fall asleep in the middle of the day and forget about the game this time

Since we've apparently decided to massclaim, I'm VT.

[DeathRowKitty]

First-off, massclaim was still stupid. At this point we hope to shit that scum that doesn't have a roleblocker because that would mean we just screwed our power roles over entirely.

What I was going to say yesterday (IRL yesterday) if I'd actually posted was that, in my 1-2-years-out-of-date-knowledge-of-site-meta, doctor and scum are, in order, the two most common fakeclaims, and also happen to be two powerful roles that don't often get put into minis together (and that, last I checked, people were moving away from putting cops in minis at all). Then I was going to say that q21's "Wow, you guys suck at this game, except the scum, they're really good." inside his claim post was scummy as fuck. My memory might just be faulty, but I don't think I've ever seen someone say something like that in a claim post and be town. That's why I didn't unvote after his claim.

His day 2 posts don't contain anything I would consider to be in conflict with a night 1 town investigation of Kthx (the thing meowakittens said was in conflict with his claimed investigation was not actually at all in conflict with it), so at the very least, that checks out.


Now that we've basically outed all our roles, here's how things break down balance-wise:

The old 2goon vs 5 townies + doc + cop semi-open newbie setup was incredibly town-sided. In case anyone is unfamiliar with the F11 newbie setup, I've included links to its wiki article on every other word of this sentence. Basically, scum would know before town what the setup was and still got mauled when that setup came up. Taking away the semi-open nature of the setup to put it into a closed game probably doesn't change things much. It might help scum a bit depending on believability of claims. Adding 1 scum and 3 townies to extend to 13p tilts the game toward scum's favor. Adding in a tracker, a vig, and neighbors....yeah, that tilts the game crazy amounts into town's favor. Even with a potential mafia roleblocker/rolecop/whatever, that is a HUGE amount of town power. Needless to say, assuming we actually have a vig, at least one of the cop and doc is lying (removing tracker from that setup would not be enough to balance the game...removing the doctor might balance the game if scum have a lot of power). If we don't have a vig, then....I don't really know how balance in a 1-2-10/1-3-9 setup works out. Do people actually use serial killers in mini normals? They used to be really uncommon.

---

TIL: you can put subscripts (and superscripts) in posts. Expect unnecessary math in my later posts to abuse this feature.


Meowakittens':

DRK's post 84 has given me yet another scum ping. Mainly due to keeping reads close to the chest which could future give a great reason to hop votes.

I never said what that read was. In hindsight, I actually find that kinda funny. I'm like 95% sure I was referring to joel at the time.

I only actually responded to that part for transparency purposes. I don't feel a need to respond to anything else in it because I don't even understand what position you were taking on me in that post. I mean, I catch from your reads list and your posts afterwards that you're calling me scum, but without that, I wouldn't have been sure. Also, my name abbreviates to

DRK

. I don't care much what people call me as long as it's recognizable, but I'm not DeathKittyRow or DeathBowKitty Meow~

---

Irrelevant now, but I really wish we'd listened to this. For more than one reason.

I am conftown at this point btw

I would like to go on record as saying that you have no clue what "conftown" means.



Regarding the neighborhood thing:

Neighborhoods of two players are "supposed to" be 50-50 chance of town-town or town-mafia (gives ~ even odds of hitting scum in or out of a neighborhood). I want to hear GM's take on Jennifer based on neighborhood stuff at some point. Neighbor is a deceptively powerful role. Reads established via 1-on-1 nighttalk can be very valuable.

---

As kind of a final aside, there are certain things that I have been and still kind of am avoiding commenting on - there are things that don't need to be said today and massclaim has made that even more complicated.

[DeathRowKitty]

And now when we go to night I get to die

gsyhiapadiaf, slandaar

lol

Why do you die?

Why does it matter so much if you do?

I clearly die first btw.

Unless this is an issue for you because you are SK and you need to survive?

I have done some calculations

We should lynch Mala

GM can shoot DRK or Kwll

Ztife tracks Q

Q goes to Jennifer

I will protect Ztife.

I think this is best.

In fact just shoot kwll for his obviously wrong meta only case one me

Still think joels is Scum but that's one useless fucking vote right there.
Kthx is also Scum but that can probably wait.

Dann is pretty Town
So is DRK

Trollie... I dunno

GM claim not strong enough to believe

I think we should just use tracker on Q yes he can be scum PR but eh only a RB really screws the plan over and then only if they RB me vig Ztife at which point we know Q is scum.

VOTE: Mala

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think you've said a single thing right in your last 5 posts is correct. Go sleep.

[DeathRowKitty]

Sorry, was playing a game.

I have no idea what you're saying.

[DeathRowKitty]

And so they moved onwards to a new era, an era that would become known as

Day 3

in the minds of the next generation. But in the minds of this generation, a simple number could not do justice to the great things that were to come...

[DeathRowKitty]

It's times like these that the frog lives for. The air is fresh, the water lilies are blooming, the delicious flies seem to hover in place. Could I ask for a more beautiful day? If only I weren't an indoor frog...

It is not my place to break this tranquil space. It is not my time to ramble on in rhyme........oops.

Today I will be a calm frog, for whatever reason or for no reason at all. We should all be calm together. And ~relax~

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I have something(s) to say probably, but I'm feeling amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazingly lazy right now. But brethren and...sistren, I will post before this sun cycle ends. Perhaps my thoughts will be less tangled for having done so. But should they not be, I will post a mighty tangled ball of yarn and all the kitties will rejoice. And all the kitties will rejoice.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Frog Join me on Kwll?

Okay.

Vote: Kwll

[DeathRowKitty]

Say please.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay.

Unvote: kwll

I'm glad Meowmeowkittens mentioned she was at l-1. This post would probably contain an accidental hammer otherwise. Seriously, since when is it only 4 to lynch?

Mod: since there was 7 left living

[DeathRowKitty]

I still owe that post from this morning though >_>

I cringed irl every time someone mentioned suspicion of Slandaar day 2 after his claim. Once we weren't going to lynch him, giving scum WIFOM powers with their nightkill was just completely unnecessary. And the massclaim made that even worse.

But anyway, I'm surprised no one called me day 2 on suddenly and inexplicably not calling the Om/Psyche/MMK slot scummy. Like, does no one remember my reads from day 1? I know I'm unimportant, but at least pretend you care what I think.

Now that day 2 is over though, you can find my explanation here. That should tell you everything you need to know.

For no scum dying night 2, I think it worked out

amazingly

. Then again, anything that involved 2 deaths night 2 was already above average, but the way things actually happened was

amazing

.



I wanted to keep my vote on kwll until he claimed but Nacho said please so I had no choice. kwll does need to claim.

[DeathRowKitty]

kwll was on-site 2 days ago.

Mod:He hasn't posted on site since the 23rd and hasn't picked up the start of day message

[DeathRowKitty]

Also i believe Kwll has site flaked

^ If Malakittens is scum, kwll is confirmed town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Stuff:

I don't even know if he is.

I think or maybe think or want to think [x], so much so that I want to ignore [y]...[x] and [y] aren't actually mutually exclusive but I don't think [x] and [y] are both true. Then there's [z], which replaced [w], which is really just switching [x] and [y] and it feels wrong but maybe I'm just seeing things? I don't think I am but

I'm bad at this game

. It makes me want to VOTE: , by which I mean I already wanted to VOTE: and this barely affects VOTE: at all.

So...that's where I am right now...

One of [x] and [y] was thinking that Om/Psyche was scum and the other was thinking Slandaar was scum. I don't remember which but I'm guessing they were in that order because it just makes more sense that way I think... I no longer know what [z] and [w] were. I'm reasonably certain they were someone else's opinions on *something*, with one of the opinions leading to the conclusion that Om/Psyche was scum and one leading to the conclusion that Slandaar was scum. WAIT NVM I THINK I REMEMBER NOW THAT THEY WERE REFERRING TO NACHO'S VOTES. VOTE: was something to the effect of "repeatedly hit my head against a wall". Not really that but the idea is the same.

Around that point i was deciding to just not care about either Slandaar or Psyche - if Slandaar was actually doctor, he was going to die and hooray woohoo happy day scum nightkills read him for me. But oh man did I want to strangle myself every time I read a post after that of someone saying they still thought Slandaar was scum. No, we do not need to give scum a reason not to kill him if he's town. No no no no no. No. Then we massclaimed. Let's all agree never to massclaim in a mini normal on day 2 again unless under very very special circumstances okay? I was somewhat needlessly worried about the possibility at that point of a possible scum roleblocker blocking hypothetical Slandaar town doctor to just bypass him entirely and take out the directly threatening roles, but in hindsight that didn't even make sense because blocking the vig would almost definitely be better because it would keep the town stuck on evens and give scum an extra nightkill. Unless WHO CARES UNLESS WHAT, NOT ME. BUT YEAH, I spent most of day 2 not passing judgment on Psyche or Slandaar at all because scum would have to sort it out anyway and THEY DID. Also, the above mess of a blurb of explanation should explain why not Psyche in this post.

TBH by the end of the day I probably should have just bothered to try to read them instead of waiting for night 2 to sort it out but gg no re ribbit ribbit it doesn't matter and scum served itself up on a silver platter by the end of day 2 anyway. It was delicious and so are my legs, or so I've heard. I wouldn't eat frog legs because I'm not a cannibal.


Iso me if you want to find why I was voting Om initially but hint: it was because he suddenly took a stance that made no sense when he realized he was on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall. That's right, Reagan said things and Gorbachev did some demolition and JFK was a jelly doughnut but not really.

I have like zero clue what Psyche did in this game. I know he posted some stuff and then made a case and then talked about it a bunch, but he really wasn't a central character anyway. He was the butler so of course he's supposed to turn out to be a killer but then you find out it was actually the maid and she has

boobs

so who really cares about the butler? Except that analogy doesn't make sense here because I'm only talking about one person and they are all the butler and they are the killer.

Then Psyche left and it probably had something to do with peanut butter and Meowakittens joined in and posted this and what in the I don't even she calls her own slot scummy like 3 times...nvm I just counted and it's 2 times and I can't even imagine what kind of thought process would have to go into a town post to produce an output that I'm pretty sure just reads "well shit, I'm scum" plus or minus suspecting 5/9 players and attacking any post in which I went off on a tangent. Not gonna lie, I can be a pretty damn easy target early in the game if I take things too far and I don't think any of Meowmeowkittens' reads changed after like page 5. INTERESTING.



SO YEAH, this is where I would lay down a dramatic vote and announce the L-1 that Ztife just took away, but seriously I think we would be more likely to get a quickhammer out of kwll's slot than a claim if he comes back, and, regardless of what his alignement is, now would be a bueno time to know if we need to massively change our assumptions of the game.

[DeathRowKitty]

There, I made my post and technically it wasn't posted yesterday (as in real day yesterday not game day yesterday) but I haven't slept yet so it still counts.

If you have questions comments or concerns about my post please post them and when I'm done with my one and a half hour slumber I will most likely read your thoughts then ignore them and go back to sleep.

[DeathRowKitty]

You were replaced. Don't post here.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Malakittens
I'm a bit stupid, so can you spell things out for me a little better: where exactly do you stand on who's scum and who's town possibly along with relative strengths of those reads? I can't tell which parts of your last post were hypothetical q pairings and which parts were your actual reads (or if the two are the same).

---

Hi YOLO. We've been very bad hosts thus far. Welcome to the game! Glad to see you said useful stuff. Your slot in general hasn't been very good at that.
How much of the game had you read when you made your claim?

[DeathRowKitty]

Are your current reads based entirely on interactions with q?

[DeathRowKitty]

Neighborhoods of two players are "supposed to" be 50-50 chance of town-town or town-mafia (gives ~ even odds of hitting scum in or out of a neighborhood).

[DeathRowKitty]

You shouldn't shoot unless *WIFOM* because we're at an odd number.

How are you feeling today, goodmorning? Did you have a good morning?

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, if Malakittens is scum, YOLO is mod-confirmed town unless Ztife is scum. Less than 2 RL days into day 3, the mod said that he believed kwll had site flaked and was going to look for a replacement soon. Considering that prods are only done automatically after 3 RL days, in order for the mod to believe that kwll had "site flaked", kwll can't have submitted a night action. According to Ztife, Malakittens did not submit a night action. If Malakittens is scum (and not a ninja), kwll is town.

Yes, I feel a little bad using that as a tell. But it is also 99.9999% accurate and it would be stupid not to use information we were freely given.

If there's someone we're sure is scum, it's better we just lynch them. Unless you can get 2 vig shots off, you shooting tonight takes away one lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think it necessarily means that. kwll hadn't posted on site since February 23, iirc. The mod said on March 2 that he thought kwll site flaked. It seems reasonable for the mod to think that as long as he didn't hear anything from kwll in the interim, regardless of night action or not.

It's also worth mentioning that somewhere in the rules, it says that someone that submits no night action forfeits their action for the night.

[DeathRowKitty]

^ All of the above is from memory and liable to be wrong.

goodmorning, would you say that you're generally optimistic?

[DeathRowKitty]

7. If a player has a night action and fails to submit before the deadline, no action will be performed by that player

It *sounds* like scum can't submit night actions for each other (and I don't think I've ever seen a mod allow scum to do so, nor should they), but if scum can send night actions for each other, that would certainly invalidate my theory.


I ask because I'm curious. Why else? ^_^

[DeathRowKitty]

i trust her.
she can deliver a bullet tonight and a bullet tomorrow night if we trust her, giving us 4 kills to catch the scum instead of 3
do you trust her?

If she can out-WIFOM the scum team, then she can kill, but if she's going to kill, it's not something we should decide and broadcast during the day. It's something we need scum to be guessing at.

DRK, I didn't quite put too much stock in your theory, but the response from the scumteam tells you there's a pretty strong chance that you are correct. Good work.

I guess if I'm the only one that thinks it meant much, I was probably just seeing things - I agree that those responses in particular stood out though.

[DeathRowKitty]

I didn't realize until I looked at the vote count to check if that was a hammer that I wasn't actually voting. >_>

[DeathRowKitty]

Jennifer was

burned alive

? Eek. Well...maybe only her clothes were burned and we just couldn't find her body. I prefer to believe that, as being burned alive is painful, or so I've heard.

Night actions throw wrenches in things.

I have things to think about. Some of them involve this game. Some of them involve flies. Nomnomnom flies. ...but no, seriously, I kinda under-prepared for any plausible day 4 scenario that involved day 4 actually existing. I probably won't post anything very useful in this game until tonight (tonight in terms of RL days, not game days) in order to conserve brainpower for other things.

[DeathRowKitty]

Sorry, got distracted by ~someone~ last night because I'm a bad person.

Having not actually reread anything yet I'm leaning YOLO right now for a few reasons:
1) Nacho pretty much started both of the wagons this game that have led to scum lynches. +town points for obvious reasons there.
2) So yesterday (as in day 3, not RL yesterday), I did some rough plotting stuff out in a Notepad document (that I've since lost in an unfortunate smelting accident) with the conclusion that goodmorning should kill if and only if scum didn't kill her (so basically, as long as scum didn't know she was killing). Nacho's strange push to get her to shoot frustrated me yesterday for helping take away our WIFOM control and making it super-likely (even moreso than it already was) that goodmorning would kill while advertising that fact to scum. I don't think Nacho would make that oversight on his night kill. This is a weak reason because Nacho as scum could have reasons for wanting to keep goodmorning alive that would outweigh potential night actions, but it's something to note.
3) This is probably more me hoping than a valid reason than a valid reason BUT SHUT UP I WANT TO FEEL SPECIAL, but I thought joel (replaced by kwll replace by YOLO) was scum and YOLO being scum would mean I was right about that >.>

We have two chances between the lynch and GM's vig shot, but we should treat this like lylo anyway. Partly because I don't think I've ever been in 1-scum lylo as town >.> ....actually mostly that but the extra caution can't hurt.

[DeathRowKitty]

I took that into account. I can't guarantee I took it into account accurately but etc.

Is there anything about my play that bugs you or is this purely a PoE vote?

[DeathRowKitty]

Unless you count my start-of-day-2 kthx-sheep vote on q21, I only unvoted q21 once, and that was to get on a wagon I thought had some chance of competing with the L-1 goodmorning wagon. Not to say I didn't prefer Ztife-scum to q21-scum at the time.

By "reaction to Kthx's vote on q21", do you mean the fact that I followed him without question or my post after he explained his reasoning? If you're referring to the former, asking for a reason would have been bad. If you're referring to the latter...well then I don't really have anything useful to say.



I need to reread large chunks of things before doing anything that useful. I haven't really been fully engaged in this game since early day 2 - I somewhat put my reads on hold day 2 for Om-Slandaar reasons and never entirely got back into the game after that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Honestly, have you been scumhunting or was it just a very good illusion?

I guess I didn't explain myself well enough the first time. It's not that I wasn't still scumhunting...I was just doing so with an intentionally limited perspective during a lot of day 2 and the events of day 3 didn't require me to move beyond it. Yes, I should have gone back and read things in context earlier and yes I'm lazy for not doing so.


In checking my day 1 iso to find what might have looked like buddying, I found two things I mentioned to look back on that are now irrelevant because I waited so long to discover I'd posted them. Oops...


I iso'd Nacho and joel/kwll/YOLO/wielderbladekey as a starting point. Nacho's vote timings make little to no sense as scum and he just seems town. I would be absolutely shocked if he's scum. Bladewielderkey's slot collectively has almost zero content to read over the span of 4 players in that slot. I kind of want to just continue being lazy at this point because unless you have some crazy change of heart that causes you to vig Nacho over Keywielder, it doesn't really matter what happens here. *shrug* I won't deny you further frog-musings if you really want them, but it seems to me like it's just going to end up being a waste of time.

[DeathRowKitty]

I can rephrase it as a series of ribbits if that would help.

[DeathRowKitty]

Can't help you then. Frog is my first language. I'm terrible with English. Sorry.

[DeathRowKitty]

That's racist. I don't like you.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: keywelder

I have now cast one more vote day 4 than I have in presidential elections.

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 4 in this game, at least. I realized after I hit submit that it might seem like I meant all day 4s to fit with the fact that I was referring to all presidential elections.

[DeathRowKitty]

Meow.

[DeathRowKitty]

YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE

NEVER

NEVER

NEVERRRRRRRRRR

Ribbit~

Vote: DeathRowKitty

...yeah I had no idea what to do day 4

but meow meow purrrrrrr now I'm dead and I've heard that being dead is nice or at least I've never heard any dead people complain about it :3

[DeathRowKitty]

There was no way I was getting both Nacho and welderkey to die before me. I like suicide. *shrug*

[DeathRowKitty]

Heh. I wrote off the possibility of goodmorning being SK because it meant balance in this game sucked. So much for that.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't remember anyone saying they didn't want the Mafia QT posted and no one said anything particularly stupid there except me so meow. If I accidentally revealed any government secrets in there, please point out where I did so because I wanna know government secrets too.

[DeathRowKitty]

Anyway, fun game, my first game in kind of a long time that I didn't start lurking in halfway through. And my first scum game in quite a while. I think I've gotten better at playing scum, but I still massively fail at planning. Btw, I hate you Nacho for basically killing our entire scum team. Go be good at this game somewhere else >: (

More thoughts later probably because I need to go pretend to be busy for a while. Then I might sleep because I think frogs do that. But I might post things eventually. Pro-tip: if you read my posts in a sexy voice, you won't even know I'm a frog.

Ribbit~

[DeathRowKitty]

Soft feelings, goodmorning. All of my feelings are soft.

I am definitely a bad player. This was almost certainly the best game I've played in 3 years. Granted, I've very rarely actually played games in that time, but when I did, I usually just lurked and did nothing because I'm a bad

person

player. When I didn't lurk, half of my play even as town was poorly-faked scumhunting. Of course, in the end, some of my old scum weaknesses came back to haunt me anyway. Overall I played well this game (or at least I think I did), but it's the exception and not the norm - and it wasn't good enough to win anyway

I probably won't sign up for any mafia games in the near future (I joined this one on a whim I thought I'd end up regretting but didn't), but we should totes be in another game together in another universe or something in which I do sign up for more mafia games in the near future.

Congrats on your win btw.

-Kitty McKittens (shhh, don't tell anyone I'm actually a frog)

[DeathRowKitty]

Awww but i really want to play with you

It'll probably happen eventually. Very few people actually walk away from mafia when they say they're going to.


I still suspect this setup was just bad for town. When I thought the setup was tracker+doc+vig-townie neighbor pair vs 3 goons, I thought the game was somewhat town-sided, but not unbearably so. But with an SK in place of the vig...

Neighbor is a fun role that I usually really like. People enjoy talking at night (well, most people do), so it's fun to play as, and how useful of a role it is for town depends on how well the town neighbor(s) manage(s) to use it (as opposed to a role like cop, where you investigate someone and get useful information no matter what). But a town neighbor tied to an SK is a bit iffy. An SK-neighbor is potentially at a pretty decent disadvantage. SK is already a very difficult role to win with (especially with no immunities) and probably shouldn't be part of a neighborhood. From the town side of things, having a town neighbor tied to an SK neighbor is less valuable than having a town neighbor tied to a mafia neighbor or having a pair of town neighbors. An SK is certainly a scum faction, but overall less dangerous and worrisome than a mafia team (for most of the game, at least).

Having that neighbor + tracker + doctor vs 3 goons and an SK definitely seems weak to me. Town mislynched day 1, followed by 3 straight mafia lynches. It's pretty rough for that to not be good enough for a town win in a mini. The fact that the game did end up being so close was largely because of the inherently self-balancing nature of having multiple scum factions - the better one faction does, the more the other factions target it. Town was doing well, so goodmorning took out townies to improve her odds. The game shouldn't have been close in terms of strictly mafia vs town. Town should have been steamrolling the mafia, but the SK just hurt the town too much. It's partly just the nature of SKs in minis, but it's also partly town not having enough power here to deal with the number of threats they had to get rid of.

Just to make sure I'm not getting the wrong point across, I'm not taking anything away from goodmorning here. Winning as no-immunity SK-neighbor in a mini normal is not at all an easy feat and she deserved her win. I'm just not sure town had a fair chance overall in this game.

Other than that though, the modding was overall smooth. Generally frequent and accurate votecounts, prods and replacements handled promptly, flavor was good when I was unlazy enough to read it (I'm really really lazy about reading flavor, sorry >.>). I still think the kwll situation was handled poorly, but it didn't end up impacting the game, so no harm done.


@Meowmeow/q21
It was fun being scummy scums with you and I would scumscum the scum with you two again~ Sorry for my lame buses on the two of you and hopefully you're not mad that I kind of gave up on the last day. I wouldn't have done that if I felt I had any chance there. One day we should group up to form the Scum4u company and use it to organize murders while pretending to give out free hugs. And we can also give out free hugs. Hugs are good~

[DeathRowKitty]

^ MALAKITTENS, IT'S THAT HAWT PERSON I WAS TELLING YOU ABOUT