Open 160 Bird 7P (GAME!) - before 823
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Depends. In the above case, no.yabba wrote:Do you get annoyed if you have to answer an "obvious" question?
From my understanding, wagons are a good way to find scum. But then again, I could be wrong.yabba wrote:What are the consequences of people trying to tear down a wagon?YOUR AD HERE
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Ok, Neil Young'sEverybody Knows This is Nowhereon the record player and a glass of rum in hand. Let's do this. Starting from about page 2.
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Are you comfortable with being lynched?bloodCo wrote:Just don't lynch me too fast, wait until we have at least a few pages of data, that way town can hunt scum more effectively in the future.
Well, it was an odd thing to do. Since you're somewhat new on this site, where did you pick up the idea of voting no lynch in the RVS? Did you come up with it on your own?Blood(y)Cove wrote:Wait... you seriously believe that I am pushing for a no lynch?
Why are you trying to direct people on how to play? How was hohum not being level-headed or emotional? I'm missing whatever you are getting at.yabba wrote:B) Calm your emotions. A level-headed town is an efficient town.
Pro-tip: very little Mastin does is worth imitating.yabba wrote:c) he's stirring up discussion. Mastin selfvotes during RVS consistently for this precise reason.
Why does it bother you? Top suspect doesn't mean guaranteed scum. At the start of the game everyone should be even on your suspicion list. If someone does something scummy, wouldn't that automatically make them your top suspect in relation to the other players?yabba wrote:I'm not going to say scumtell automatically, but jumping outright and saying that you've found top suspects after a single RL day is irking me simply from a strategic vantage, town or scum.
yabba wrote:Now sometimes, wagons can have another effect. Sometimes you can see that some of the latecomers on the wagon come up with a lousy excuse, and then you vote them for being opportunistic. In that case, the wagon serves a different pro-town purpose. While I think claiming there was nonexistant reasoning was incorrect, sometimes that happens.
I don't see much point to this sort of "advice". not really scumhunting.yabba wrote:Let's not rush ourselves. Keep your minds level, your emotions calm, continue to question everything like you have been, and the suspects will emerge. Then even more suspicions fly, then the fun begins. Process!
Please don't forget that I know who you are. Don't expect to play the noob card in this game. +1 scumpointCharnel wrote:, this is the experienced guy. Sorry to be relatively new, sir. Now it would be nice if you didn't try to gain any superiority, and just played the game.
And what why is this scummy? what is the scum motivation for it?yabba wrote:- VP, not sure why he withheld sound logic when exchanging with Charnel. It wasn't out of frustration. Still, that's one thing.
@yabba-how much evidence do you need to gather before you would be willing to vote somebody?
It would not have served a pro-town purpose for me to reveal my reasons at that time.yabba wrote:VP Baltar, why weren't you willing to share your reasons for voting for BC?
Seriously dude, this is against site rules on many levels. Knock it off.BC wrote:seriously dude? your so gay
Well that should narrow down the scum pretty easily for you. Who are they?BC wrote:I think you're both crappy town.
QFTmuzzz wrote: Dodging questions is always a scumtell. You can argue that you weren't dodging, but that's it.
****side note: I disapprove of all this Mastin discussion. seriously, if you want to be successful at this game, he is not a person to model yourself after.****
So? If it is fruitful discussion, then it shouldn't be a problem. I think Octupis and myself are the only people who were mildly behind.yabba wrote:We've been doing laps around the other players in terms of post counts
Agreed.hohum wrote:With 7 people things should be expected to move along at a slightly more rapid pace.
Charnel, explain this for me. What quote of yabba's indicated he has inside knowledge and explain how that quote means he has inside knowledge.Charnel wrote:you have a point with the defence of your attack that yabba knew more.
What makes you feel so?hohum wrote:now they're trying to put some distance in between each other?
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Ok, fully caught up.Mod, vote counts a bit more frequently please
I'll leave my vote until BC states who he would actually feel comfortable worth lynching. I also think Charnel is scummy as hell. Yabba's up there too. Octupis needs to post some more substantial content. hohum and muzzz are town so far to me.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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@hohum
re:Charnel--he is an alt for someone else. I won't reveal who out of respect for privacy, but playing the newbie card is shady at best.
re:vote counts and taking notes--vote counts need to happen more than once every five pages, plain and simple. As far as notes, I'm aware of the benefits.YOUR AD HERE
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I'm more interested in the "inside knowledge" part however, because I don't see where that is coming from and you agreed with it. Cite the quote for me and point out how it implies that yabba has inside knowledge.Charnel wrote:I didn't like his sarcastic defense. That is a scummy way to defend it, and means that hohum is more likely right in his assumption that yabba is scum.
Unvote, Vote Charnel
While I agree that acting superior based on time on site is annoying and is fair to be called out, what bothered me was you saying:Charnel wrote:It is far from playing the newby card.
You directly state that you're new on the site, which is playing the noob card to me. I don't like it.Sorry to be relatively new, sir.
re: outting Charnel--I'm not going to do it hohum. I don't think it is necessary to the game and is more an issue of you wanting to feed your curiosity. You know enough simply by knowing he is an alt. If he wants you to know for game related reasons, then that is his decision.
So, you are just going to wait to see which wagon gets steam before you put a vote down? If you are suspicious of Charnel, I don't understand the need to unvote him...particularly if he isn't currently in danger of a lynch.Octupis wrote:I will tentatively Unvote for now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.-
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Don't link me to Octupis when I'm the one that pointed out his scummy unvote. That's complete BS, BC.
As far as my vote on Charnel, it's not for pressure. He has acted scummy and my vote shows my lynching intent as of this point in time.YOUR AD HERE
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This is a horrible reason to be voting someone.yabba wrote:Still, my vote rests on Charnel because I want to know why he tried to ask for a lynch on someone else when he's under some pressure himself. I think he was in no position to do that.
Unvote, Vote: BloodCovenantI'm fine with this. If anyone else is thinking about voting you, you need to claim.-
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Depends on if the town actually wants to lynch him at this point or not. I personally feel it is a decent choice for the day, but if the wagon doesn't have support to follow through we might not want to force a claim just yet. So, do you think BC should be lynched today?Octupis wrote:I think BloodCoovenent is now at L-1. Wouldn't it a good idea for him to claim now?YOUR AD HERE
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Not necessarily. Even when one is under pressure you should still continue to scumhunt if you are town.yabba wrote:@VP-183: "That" = saying "Can I have a lynch please" when he's under pressure
Why is that? He didn't unvote because he knew hohum was going to try and hammer.charnel wrote:(his unvote prevented my lynch, and that has to count for something
I'll give you a tip for whatever new alt you create: use your watched topics folder. That way you'll never accidentally post in the wrong game.charnel wrote:ok. Unconcentrated posting kills me. Hohum here is your proof.
Unless you are an alt as well, I'd say your experience is limited an inaccurate. I have quick hammered as scum and got away with it. Why do you think it is a town tell?muzz wrote:In my experience, quick-lynching/-hammering is a towntell.
If BC is not the real doc, the real one should counterclaim him now. Catching scum > losing our doc tonight. Did you breadcrumb your role at all BC?BC wrote:You want my claim. fine. I'm the doc.
Oh, I see that yabba beat me to it:
I will start, I amyabba wrote:@all: If a counterclaim exists, would you vouch for it? If it were me, I'd err on the safe side and have the doc counterclaim, simply because it's (barring a docsave) LyLo if we blow it here.notthe doc.
You're certainly thrashing about quite a lot. Pending a counter doc claim and a votecount, I'm ready to put my vote back on you.charnel wrote:I could totally see a yabba-VP scumpair.Unvotefor now.
Huh? If you are the doc, claim now please.yabba wrote:In terms of pressing me for my counterclaim, I'll wait. If we mostly agree to go counterclaim hunting, I will go along with it.-
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Yeah, but that is the worst case scenario for this setup. A number of factors (such as doc protection) could change the outcome and layout of the days following today. Furthermore mislynching today isn't the complete disaster you describe, as it narrows the pool of potential suspects tomorrow. Yes, we would have to be absolutely correct tomorrow, but the odds of hitting scum also increase dramatically.yabba wrote:@Baltar-195: Did you read my chain of logic in 194, the "Bird is a best-of-three" point? Tell me what you think.
You worth trusting here? I'm not so sure.hohum wrote:He isn't the doc. I assure you he's lying. Lynch him please.-
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The problem with your theory, hohum, is that lynching a claimed doc is a complete disaster for the town if he actually is the doc. It gives the scum the chance to then hit our cop tonight and the town is basically screwed D2. Your WIFOM about what the scum would do D1 with claiming is pretty useless.
I definitely want to hear from BC about whether he breadcrumbed first before I even consider following through on the lynch. You trying to hammer it through with horrible logic is pretty damn scummy.
The reason a doc counterclaim would be good right now is that it would guarantee us a dead scum in exchange for our doc. Is it the optimal outcome for D1? No, but it isn't the complete disaster of potentially lynching our doc today that you are describing.-
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I don't necessarily agree with this being a good tactic for scum. Losing one of their members for a PR isn't a great exchange because they only have two members. This is especially true of claiming doc. Say they get a counter claim on the doc and lose a member that day. That night the doc gets killed, but the second member would still be susceptible to cop investigation. It is a bad decision that could result in a perfect town win. I plan to check out your link; I just need some time today to do it.hohum wrote:This setup is unique in that it creates far more incentive for scum to claim power roles at any stage of the game. To use a baseball analogy: it's a sacrifice fly. One scum goes down in flames while the other one snipes at counterclaimed PRs. By not following procedure and lynching without a counterclaim, we effectively remove this incentive and tip the balance back into the town's favor.
re:egruntz--I want to hear his reread. He could still be scum trying to backpeddle on the doc claim now because it put him in a sticky situation. Of course, BC could have also just been an idiot who was pissed at the game and boned the town.
Again hohum, there is no rush until we sort this matter our fully. I don't like Charnel dismissing the possibility of BC/egruntz being scum immediately because of a fake doc claim. That makes no sense. A Charnel lynch today wouldn't be a bad idea either.YOUR AD HERE
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Actually one thing I notice upon reread was that Charnel never even made direct mention to the doc claim after it was made. Charnel, what were your feelings on it? Did you believe it? Why didn't you address it directly?YOUR AD HERE
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Because it allows the scum to have influence over his/her investigation. It is better if we just let the cop make up his/her own mind and not give the scum the opportunity to direct the investigation away from them.Octupis wrote:Why do you object to advising the cop on a target?
No, that makes no sense. There are few incidences where fake claiming doc is a good idea. This is most certainly not one of them. If his role really is VT, then he's an idiot who was playing selfishly just because he didn't want to be lynched.Octupis wrote:Regarding BloodCovenent's claim, isn't a possibility that he is a vanilla townie and he claimed doctor to protect the real doctor.
@Charnel:VP Baltar wrote:Did you believe it? Why didn't you address it directly?YOUR AD HERE
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@muzzz, I never said that my logic is that Charnel could be egruntz's scumbuddy. That sort of speculation is useless without a flip. I find it far more interesting that he ignored the doc claim altogether and now comes up with a very irrational theory on why egruntz must be town. It seems to me like he has inside information. It just doesn't seem natural to auto believe something as ridiculous as one player claiming doc and then his replacement claiming VT.YOUR AD HERE
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Well, when a player like you is screaming about how the lynch needs to happen, I would most certainly distance myself from the lynch as scum. It most certainly does make you look bad and that is all the more reason for him to be nowhere near it. Isn't WIFOM fun? More actual scumhunting, please.hohum wrote:@Baltar: the hole in your logic is this: If charnel were scum and BC were town, it would be in charnel's best interest to let us lynch BC. It's a free kill, puts us in lylo tomorrow and has the added convenience of making me look ridiculously scummy.YOUR AD HERE
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Agreed. Explanation very necessary. I'm ready to hammer pending this response.hohum wrote:Charnel: You seem to have done an about face in that last post regarding your stance on BC. Did post 266 strike a nerve, or what?
Hohum, if you dont' want to elaborate on every player, fine, but you need to list your top three suspects before the day ends. I feel you have been very guarded in some ways with your suspicions and I don't like it.YOUR AD HERE
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Heh, well talk to Charnel. I want his answer. Don't worry though, if I hammer, I'll time it so you are online at the time and will get your twilight thoughts in.hohum wrote:The faster you hammer the more likely it is you'll get what you want out of me because I need to do some actual work today instead of stalking this thread.YOUR AD HERE
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I agree with hohum, Octupis, what say you?
Charnel, I read you in iso last night and I can maybe see where you were coming from a bit more as potential town. I'd still like you to answer the question about changing positions on egruntz at the last minute.YOUR AD HERE
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That is how you get razor burn.hohum wrote:@Baltar: also, don't think it hasn't escaped my attention that you asked me for a list of my suspects in twilight and one of my two neutrals mysteriously vanished. That sort of rubs me the wrong way.
Exactly! This essentially confirms Charnel is town. No scum would be for mass claim at this point as it results in them have a 0% chance to win. This setup is massively broken if both power roles survive N1.Charnel wrote:now, with one mislynch, we have a few options:
One cop, one doc, one confirmed, one normal towny, and:
A a fakeclaiming scum as doc: lynch both docs for the win
B a fakeclaiming scum as cop: lynch both cops for the win
C a fakeclaiming scum as towny: lynch both townies for the win.
There is no way out for scum anymore.
I disagree. Your resistance to mass claim is highly suspicious. It absolutely needs to happen.hohum wrote:I want to hear from Octu. It's up to him whether we claim today or not.
@hohum-if you are town, you need to unvote right now. I don't want a quickhammer on Charnel to take place before a claim happens. And if you refuse to do that, please explain how the town can possibly lose from a mass claim right now.YOUR AD HERE
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Fine, you're right. We don't want anyone at L-1 right now.Unvote
I am very much against a quickhammer at this juncture and anyone who does is certainly the last scum.
There is nothing to think about regarding the massclaim. As Charnel put it:
These are my exact thoughts. If you can point to an actual hole in that logic, I may consider against it. In the meantime, unvote. It is not going to hurt anything to do so for now.now, with one mislynch, we have a few options:
One cop, one doc, one confirmed, one normal towny, and:
A a fakeclaiming scum as doc: lynch both docs for the win
B a fakeclaiming scum as cop: lynch both cops for the win
C a fakeclaiming scum as towny: lynch both townies for the win.
There is no way out for scum anymore.YOUR AD HERE
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Meh, I already implied at the beginning of the day that I had an innocent read on Char. Something should have sounded off to you when I basically had no questions for him at the start of the day.
The reason I didn't want to claim first was because I wanted to catch a scum claiming cop and make this that much easier. As I see it now, they will be forced to claim vanilla...so we might not get a perfect victory here. This is my competative nature coming into play.YOUR AD HERE
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I saw it, and I almost claimed there, but like I said perfect victory was on my mind. I haven't had one yet and this is definitely the perfect opportunity. We'll see if it's still in the cards after yabba finishes debating on whether to claim VT or a doc.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
I didn't expect anyone to pick up on it, nor did I want them to. I wanted it to be there for when and if I claimed because it would help remove the WIFOM of a scum trying to counterclaim me.hohum wrote:cute. you expected anyone to pick up on that because???
My backing off of char should have been a much more obvious indication that I am the cop.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him