Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Crescent]

Hi peeps. I'm new here.

Do you know each other and respective playstyles well?

This is my second game in this specific community and the only carryover player is Gera who I spent a fair amount of my last game suspecting before identifying him as the guy scum was trying to get voted off.

That game also started with an immediate self vote, too. Is that a normal thing here?

Also, I'm a kitty. Meow.

[Crescent]

Oh and if you want an experience rundown, several years on and off but almost entirely in a 48/24 hour format, most of these games in a community of misogynists. MN 2272 was the first game of that kinda length I was ever involved in.

[Crescent]

I'm GeorgeBailey

And I shall love it and hug it and name it George

[Crescent]

In order to be a kitty you gotta have a profile picture. It's the best form of self expression.

That and I know 3 other people with Kitty pfps and a dude named Kitty and another lady named Kitten.

Also the self vote is normal for that particular player so ignore it.

I tried for a bit but it wasn't taking anything so I said screw it.

The only reason I even have one on Discord is a server made me get one, but unlike here I actually got it to work easily.

Playing mafia helps keep the "claws" sharp. Kitties need their claws unfortunately.

[Crescent]

Is that a normal thing here?

Also, I'm a kitty. Meow.

Not really, seems like it's just his gimmick. Meow.

Scorpious did the same thing last game. He was at 4 votes in the first 20 posts.

All the votes were town though.

[Crescent]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

He deliberately split the posts (or in other words, spammed), that looks to me like he tried too hard to appear casual during his joke entrance.
I'm not willing to vote just for that early in the game. We've got time, and instant majority lynch.

I technically did the same thing. I often think of something extra to say after I've already posted something and end up double or triple posting (which I've already done this game, and is part of why my post count was easily #1 in MN2272) One of the fluff posts was baited by a fluff post of mine.

It feels like both a lazy reason and a reason that should include me given I played right into it.

[Crescent]

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

[Crescent]

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

I do find this interesting, tbh. Why do you think you are a target for unexplained early votes?
Also, with your previous games off-site, do they tend to have RVS or is that not usual for your games?

Random early voting is something that often happens everywhere in mafia. The last game had 4 votes on Scorpious in 20 posts, which ended up quickly giving us talking points.

The way I post early on in games is often aloof and/or obviously focused on just keeping myself engaged until something actually happens. Nothing happened the first day or so of this game, so I practically napped right through it. It has the tendency of rubbing people the wrong way. I'm a data player and I'll rarely be the one who casts the first stone of the game. I'm more dangerous day 5 than I am on day 1. That wall I posted at the start of day 3 last game was brutally effective after I barely did anything day 2 due to outside influences.

Three games ago in that community, there was a game with a "probably third party" who was giving us messages through the host at the start of each day. I got into a beef with another member of town because I completely ignored those messages and considered them not worth paying any attention to, and he thought they mattered. He could not fathom why my stance was what it was.

Ultimately though, my mood decides how I play early, more than anything else. You'll never see me contradict out of anything but desperation, though, as I generally remember every major point I've ever made in any given game. I know it bothers some people that I'll self-meta so readily, but... It's really not a concern to me. I'm always thinking of future games just as much as my current one. I probably used the words "town baseline" ~3 of times in MN2272 while self-metaing.

I do have to get going to Synagogue though before I start rambling even more.

[Crescent]

P.S.

I think the difference is some town get bad-vibes from it and decide to pressure me to get a better read, but it doesn't really ping anything from scum as something worth pursuing, which is why that vote usually comes from town.

[Crescent]

'Cause an entire day had passed and his "sticking with the basics" line suggests having an actual reason to vote that wasn't strong enough to actually go into detail on.

[Crescent]

Cooperative is kind of a stretch. Self-meta in new places is unreliable testimony. I mean like, I could tell you I've never in my several years of mafia fakeclaimed a scanner regardless of my role or alignment, so when I do claim one you murder the person I've claimed it on. It's not like you really have any actual reason to believe me on that, though - It's only my play over time that will establish that.

It's that kind of loose behavior that tends to draw aggro to me so early on. I could self-meta for hours if I felt like it.It's weird that it didn't in that previous one. Gamma somehow immediately townread it. The only thing I've really added to the game is that, based on my personal history, that guy who voted me is town. Which, at this point, is now more than almost every player in the game has added.

People were complaining the last game was slow. This is so much worse I'm already scrapping together any thought I can just to stay engaged.

[Crescent]

Like for reference previous game was on page 6 in under 24 hours. I feel like this game already needs several prods.

[Crescent]

Interactions would be fun to read. The Queen demands entertainment.

The Emperor Demands It.

We can always do the age old "vote out whoever posts last" thing. That's worked out before.

Are you saying this to try to get people to post, or is this actually a serious suggestion?

[Crescent]

I mean genuinely sometimes it's best to cut the weak links early when we can afford it like lurkers and such. And usually the person who posts last was either busy IRL or (90% of the time) is a player who doesn't contribute as much. But a general low poster after 10ish real days will do.

We had one replace day 1 and two replaces early day 2 last game... All were town, and all were members of the hood. It was somehow a scum neighbor with 3 inactive town neighbors.

I am not against murdering someone who doesn't post

at all

if for some reason they're not being replaced, but I did town read day 1's lowest poster last game and was against voting for them. He came off as (and was) completely clueless town who was way out of his depth.

I consider it a really bad sign that a 2 day old game is already talking about inactive hunting. This doesn't feel like a discussion that has a place this early in a day.

[Crescent]

Looking at the numbers, I had more posts on day 1 last game than any scum had for the entire game, and the top 7 posters were all town. I'm not used to playing this format, but I can't deny it's a suggestive data point.

Actually thought they were more mid-tier active until looking that up.

[Crescent]

Ger had issues last game actually responding to questions quickly and directly and it's one of the reasons I suspected him for so long. He also had a habit of saying he'd do things and just... Didn't actually do them. He was the one town player who lived to endgame less active than the entire scumteam.

Last game he voted Scorpious at post 11 (4th vote on him) and said something about "always random voting" to justify it. I do find it curious that he sussed someone so early but apparently did not "randomly vote" anyone. He doesn't have a content post in the other game until #168 where he pokes me for poking him.

There is a post that gives a potential reason for this difference in early behavior, but I want to see what he says about it before I bring it up specifically.

[Crescent]

I consider it a really bad sign that a 2 day old game is already talking about inactive hunting. This doesn't feel like a discussion that has a place this early in a day.

I agree, the game has barely started we can't identify lurkers.

For reference:

Crescent 16
Elsa 12
clidd 7
Vivax 5
Alexcellent 5
Not_Mafia 4
GeorgeBailey 4
Umlaut 4
GoldfishFromTheMoon 4
geraintm 3
Corwinoid 2
UNOwen 2
gibus 1
Eiralox 1

I actually thought we had 0 posters, but apparently we don't.

Bailey, Cori, NM, and Eiralox have no game advancing content. Eiralox was basically "checking in" and never posted again.

[Crescent]

I get "reaction test" vibes from Gibus. Would still look better if he'd actually done something since.

[Crescent]

I would though think it's easier to root out lurkers in this format. What I'm used to is 48 hour days with over 1,000 posts (Day 1 can go over 2,000), and lurkers can fall through the cracks for significant amounts of time if people aren't careful. It's why I make a specific note to hunt them.

7 days with less post volume kinda makes it hard to hide unless basically nobody is posting.

[Crescent]

Was there supposed to be a vote count with that?

[Crescent]

I might have to VLA the next day due to illness that suddenly started hitting me last night, but I'm going to try to see if I can process things first. I see stuff actually happened for once.

Going to get a Covid test tomorrow if it lingers like this or worsens.

[Crescent]

Could use a bit more input from not_mafia. Gave me the impression he likes to laze off while being around a lot, but don't know if it's a mafia trait of him.

Otherwise clidd gives me slight mafia vibes. Bit too smooth of an entrance. More ruffle-some-hairs type of input would help to dissuade me.

I'll say I don't think Elsa is the droid many are looking for, but don't let me stop you from generating info.

Feeling good about my vote so far.

Elsa struck me as frustrated with the activity level and trying to leverage some sort of threat against the lurkers. I think that can go either way alignment wise, and I do find it curious how much of a talking point it became.

I think if Elsa is town there's a good chance of finding scum in those who shaded her.

[Crescent]

So to analyze more: Alex's vote on Elsa feels awkward but doesn't particularly come off as scummy. Seems like a "put up or shut up" kind of vote when scum in that situation could've made a much easier vote and gone a lot more under the radar. Unless that's Alex's game it seems like something that just pulls attention.

Oh and I barely ever vote. MM and Carcalily (the only two voteiffs of the game before scum surrendered) were my only two votes of the last game, and I voted neither until <2 days left in the day. When and why I vote is much more important to reading me than who.

[Crescent]

And Eiralox just strikes me as waiting for something to actually happen before doing something instead of trying to force it to happen.

The wall post.. Honestly doesn't really say anything though. It rehashes the game, but it doesn't actually provide any content that advances the game, as it includes little to no reads or reactions to what they're rehashing. It's just a long post that exists for the sake of existing.

[Crescent]

sorry i meant to say what's ur fascination with gibus? other than voting, its only peep u've mentioned.

gibus is null and non-fascinating, that he got town read anyway is interesting. Crescents explanation makes sense, she seemed to miss that he was copying Elsa with his post. Not sure where Goldfish is coming from.

Who was copying what now?

[Crescent]

Also NM has 0 content and hasn't posted in 38 hours.

Unleash the prod.

[Crescent]

That's absolutely a prod dodge, but technically since he still has no game advancing content a prod is still warranted.

[Crescent]

Getting some serious countershadey vibes from Eiralox here. I point out it's the worse of the two votes on Elsa, and call out the wall as fluff pretending to be substance, only for them to immediately jump to the defense of said wall post and say I'm being defensive, which I haven't been at all. You'd probably have to put me to 4 or 5 votes before you'd actually get a defensive reaction out of me.

Very much want to see that reply to post #182 though... That's the kind of thing I normally catch, too. Scum last game was all over setting up town Gera for a later vote, and town figuring that out is ultimately what nuked said scumteam.. Meuh especially spent almost all game setting him up to "vote later". Shaded him all day 1, then voted someone else she had "no read on". She then plopped on him day 2 early on and never left.

If I had to guess, Alex/Elsa is still T/T and it was just the awkwardness from a difference in approach to the game. If there's any scum in the way that trio interacted, it's Eiralox.

[Crescent]

Oh as an aside the fever broke again and my body has mostly stabilized, at least for now. It's possible I wasn't "sick", but was having a reaction to the fumes from the work going on outside. I shouldn't need to VLA at all.

[Crescent]

Also Gera... It's a lazy approach to just discount strong day 1 reads outright as they're often player and community specific. There's one guy in particular where if I peg him as scum day 1, you just completely obliterate him because I've yet to be wrong on it. Most can't read him at all, but 80-90% of the time I'll have his alignment locked by the time day 1 is over. Some people just soul read other people, and some people just have really good day one radars in general. Those people are admittedly fairly rare, though.

Anyways, his recent posts are vibing me similar to last game. It's a scummy vibe, but it isn't feeling out of character compared to last game where he was town. He didn't really add much last game (the only poster less active than the entire scumteam) and he hasn't really added much now. It's consistent enough for me at this point. Gera said something strangely shady towards someone early on day 2 last game that went nowhere that I didn't like, and I also think he only jumped on that Scorpious wagon because he had already decided through bias to "random vote" for him before the game even started.

I get the feeling he's a low-vote player like me, but he also doesn't really go into detail when he's pushing on someone until you nag him into doing it. Regardless, I'm getting enough of the same vibes at this point to be good with him at the moment.

[Crescent]

Also Gera... It's a lazy approach to just discount strong day 1 reads outright as they're often player and community specific. There's one guy in particular where if I peg him as scum day 1, you just completely obliterate him because I've yet to be wrong on it. Most can't read him at all, but 80-90% of the time I'll have his alignment locked by the time day 1 is over. Some people just soul read other people, and some people just have really good day one radars in general. Those people are admittedly fairly rare, though.

Anyways, his recent posts are vibing me similar to last game. It's a scummy vibe, but it isn't feeling out of character compared to last game where he was town. He didn't really add much last game (the only poster less active than the entire scumteam) and he hasn't really added much now. It's consistent enough for me at this point. Gera said something strangely shady towards someone early on day 2 last game that went nowhere that I didn't like, and I also think he only jumped on that Scorpious wagon because he had already decided through bias to "random vote" for him before the game even started.

I get the feeling he's a low-vote player like me, but he also doesn't really go into detail when he's pushing on someone until you nag him into doing it. Regardless, I'm getting enough of the same vibes at this point to be good with him at the moment.

[Crescent]

Glad you feel better Cres.

Oops.

When I first refreshed the page it showed nothing, then I posted again and it showed it twice.

Hurray!


Also thank you.

I am very reactive to smoke and to specific chemicals, and there does seem to be a correlation between the work finishing and my symptoms breaking. Like, I can't be anywhere near Lysol or my body will completely malfunction.

[Crescent]

That entire post comes off as

extremely defensive

. Holy wow.

And I spent several posts last game going over my vote patterns and went into very specific detail about my previous two games. I abridged it this time~

Like, it's a completely provable fact, too. I talked about myself much more last game. If there's any significant difference in my play, it's that my rate of self-meta is much

lower

this game. I'm both posting less and talking about myself less because I'm not in the same kind of "tryhard" mood. That's where the actual argument is. This just comes off as completely overreaching and openly countersuspecting the first person who shaded you.

The issue I'm having now is.. The guy we murdered day 1 last game acted the exact same way as you're acting, and he was town. The moment he got any sus, he violently attacked anyone who sussed him. Scum stayed the hell away from him and just let him attack town.

[Crescent]

@Crescent, more just for my curiosity - why do you barely ever vote? I'm more just trying to understand the logic behind it and your playstyle

Personal preference. I find that

A. People are too vote happy

B. I can pressure people without resorting to votes.


I voted MonkeyMan with ~2 days left in day 1, and immediately

unvoted

when he was pushed to -2, as I feared a careless hammer could occur. When I was challenged to say who would do it, I said Gamma and Vanya.

Someone unvoted for a few hours just to see if I'd get back on and I did. A little bit later they put the vote back to -2. I let it stay that time.

Guess what? Vanya and Gamma hammered within a couple of hours. They were both town. I bloody well called it.

[Crescent]

But in essence I don't see the need to vote to get the things I need done. Once I've actually voted someone, it is rare my vote will move to anyone else. By that point, that player has reached a high enough scum equity. I have early voted for to pressure people I think are hiding and to make it clear my vote will never move unless they stop, but I don't vote someone when I'm questioning them. I openly sussed and pushed on Gera almost all game and I never had a vote on him. It's how I always play.

My previous town game before that one I placed exactly 4 votes in exactly 4 days. Two of these votes were only placed as "course correction" votes at the very end of days 2 and 3 because people were trying to mind trick themselves onto the worse vote. The third was just me leading the charge against the final scum immediately on day 4 and obliterating him. If I didn't need those votes at the ends of day 2 and 3, I would've voted 2 times all game as town in a game that lasted 4 days.

[Crescent]

I really, really, really hate it when people play every other game they've been in, instead of the game they're currently in.

It was my example of why I hold back on votes. Scorpious was all over me for my mentality last game. He thought it was fake.

[Crescent]

I really, really, really hate it when people play every other game they've been in, instead of the game they're currently in.

It was my example of why I hold back on votes. Scorpious was all over me for my mentality last game. He thought it was fake.

[Crescent]

this is frustrating. you have not addressed anything.

VOTE: Crescent

i'll be going through all your posts with a finer comb.

I'm not sure what there is to address in that mass of self-defensiveness that's calling something scummy for the opposite reasons of why it should be scummy?

[Crescent]

Basically let's put it in these terms: I'm the only one I can actually trust to be town. That means my own vote is the most important vote in the game. I don't see the purpose in devaluing my vote by flinging it around semi-randomly.

And yes, this is word for word exactly what I'd say regardless of my alignment.

[Crescent]

Anyways. To get off this tangent and onto something more important, my gut feeling for no specific reason is that NM is town being an unhelpful dick for the sake of being an unhelpful dick, which is the kind of player I might actually hate the most in all of mafia.

For him to immediately pop in after that mention of him needing a prod and doing nothing at all after feels like a "town who doesn't give a ****" move more than a scum move.

[Crescent]

And on players I don't like, I don't like George essentially doing nothing but popping a vote on Alex and doing little else but responding to a couple of random things after, two of them from Alex and one where he dismisses Alex's reason for townreading Eiralox. This is pretty much his entire game summed up.

Like, Gibus hasn't done jack but two weird votes, but he also did it with the acknowledgement that his votes didn't really matter. I feel like George acted like his vote was important when he made it, but has put no actual effort into it. It's just there for a cheap reason to be there.

[Crescent]

I'm not sure what there is to address in that mass of self-defensiveness that's calling something scummy for the opposite reasons of why it should be scummy?

One: Explain your logic about why my vote is worst? I went through the thread logging in, decided Elsa felt most sus to me thus far, read Alex's post and vote, then cast my vote. My 'fluff' post is clearly a summary of folk with less for me to go on, as I have stated. your strong stance on it does not seem town at all, and I won't shy away from stating so: to me it feels scummy.

And point two why I found you feel iffy is the exact point you used to address my fluffocity: I didn't see much hunting from, or anything susbtantive really, except the repeated callbacks to games I never played in have no interest in knowing of... more than half of your posts are Doctor Who timey wimey transportations to a dimension i';ve never been. I don;t see it aiding town, much as i don't get ur issue with my post. i stated it's a summation, i stated it's not a readlist.

wait well ok let me dumb it down:

1. you sus me for Elsa vote. offer nothing else and fail to address my request to do so.
2. you call me on a fluffy post which i think is quite decent actually, not in forming reads but in setting some things in stone, while i see 50+% percent of your posts as fluff. No one else complains about my post.

sooo let's wrap it up:

Eira is bad cos: 1. the voted Elsa(why tho? we don't know.
2. Eira made a long post by ISOing everyone they haven't got much of an idea on how they operate, post fluff, Eira bad
3. Eira strikes back

case closed, string me up gov.

I called Gera fluffy for the exact same kind of post last game that he made on day 2. Wall posts without reads are fluff.

The only thing I've actually said regarding your alignment is that you're more likely to be scum than Alex and Elsa. I've already said the person last game who reacted as badly as you did to pressure turned out to be town.

[Crescent]

So basically, if I were forced to vote right now, it'd be on George, or on Clidd until he gives a reasonable answer to his actions towards Gera because that's a Scorpious-tier contradiction.

I think Gibus and NM will do things... Eventually. I mean, if they want to stay under the vote count of the host, I'm not going to say no to killing them, because that's pretty well inexcusible.

Unowen and the previously mentioned George are a mere one post ahead of him, but an ISO of Unowen doesn't ping me in any way except maybe a little too many questions and a little too few direct reads. I'm fine with that playerslot at the moment. Votes Cori, questions Cori twice. The flow is more natural than George's.

[Crescent]

I called Gera fluffy for the exact same kind of post last game that he made on day 2. Wall posts without reads are fluff.

The only thing I've actually said regarding your alignment is that you're more likely to be scum than Alex and Elsa. I've already said the person last game who reacted as badly as you did to pressure turned out to be town.

Again you fail to say why you find my vote on Elsa suspicious.

Wall posts without reads are fluff? Who made you the grand arbitor? And you saying your continued allusions to a game i ain't gonna read are not fluff? why not focus on this game? Meta this or that is not enough of an excuse to me for not being wholly in the game.

My immediate impression was that Elsa pressure was bad and a scum was taking part, so I looked into the votes first.

I think Elsa was being null and Alex voted her on a difference of play approach. Your vote was awkward at best. (I'm on the "post 120 is bad" side of the line, as it appears reachy to me), and given the vote came on it's own, and then only minutes later did you justify it, it comes off as potentially opportunistic in trying to push a train led by town.

Like, I don't think Elsa spent anywhere near as long on the topic to be scummy, especially given she wasn't even the only one doing it.

And yes, posting a long block of words with no game advancing content is something scum just

loves

to do to appear like busy town. It's a very common scum tactic to appear engaged when they're not.

And we have a player who was in said game, so if I was lying about any of it, I would think he'd bake me for it.

[Crescent]

@Vivax

That was a real-time update *meta-based* read (160), having ''mini 2190'' and ''mini 2196'' games as references.

The games are old but you can find them by searching geraint's profile or mine.

Can you point me to specific parts of those games to look for?

[Crescent]

(Because I'm getting similar enough vibes to how he was last game, even though his early behavior was different - But he shows a clear bias for why he placed such an early Scorpious vote there)

[Crescent]

...Because he.

[Crescent]

Anyways Eiralox is probably just town who dislikes me because I don't play the same way they do. I'm sensing an actual grudge out of the overreaction and that kind of thing is legitimately hard to fake.

Clidd needs to go in more detail about Gera. I've no issue going into past games, but I'm not searching the entire thing.



Oh wait one thing:

Given I think George is on the "probably scum" side of things...

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

This coming so early reflects pretty damned well. Vivax hasn't posted a lot but I like most of what they have.

And my own reaction to Vivax here looks awful <3

[Crescent]

Something I just remembered myself: Gera specifically said last game he didn't care about any read that didn't also come with a vote.

He immediately shaded Vivax for shading George, then called him performative. Vivax did not place any vote here.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

[Crescent]

Holy hell Clidd your post count in MN 2196 is insane.

Early impressions of 2196 Gera: Much more aggressive than 2272 Gera on day 1. 2272 Gera barely did anything and barely attacked anyone. 2196 Gera has a similar number of posts but is on the hunt rather early. I don't see any parallels between that and him instantly defending George, but I do see *some* parallels in him being on the attack early - Though he did nothing for like, the first entire day of that game before jumping someone in just his second post. It was only a few posts later that he backpedaled and said it was "random". He was quicker to acknowledge it in 2272.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

In his defense, GB didn't really seem like he was forcing a casual entrance to me. The accusation does come off as quite strange.

I could see where the accusation was coming from. For some reason at the time I thought the same thing could be applied to me - Like it was trying too hard to be a "check in".

It's George's behavior

since

then that's gotten my notice. 4 posts, a quick vote, and a whole lotta nothing.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

In his defense, GB didn't really seem like he was forcing a casual entrance to me. The accusation does come off as quite strange.

I could see where the accusation was coming from. For some reason at the time I thought the same thing could be applied to me - Like it was trying too hard to be a "check in".

It's George's behavior

since

then that's gotten my notice. 4 posts, a quick vote, and a whole lotta nothing.

[Crescent]

Let's see... 2190 Gera was town.


Good lord he's doing even less than he did in 2272. He doesn't have a content post in that game until 582 when he defends DkKoba.

[Crescent]

Gibus, I don't understand what's your point.

Are you trying to read my slot or the accuracy of my read?

Well, I can't join you in your pursuit if I'm not convinced.
It would be nice if your responses turn out ai tho.

Somewhat. There are more similarities to him immediately squaring off on Vivax to the scum game pointed out than either of the town games being pointed out. Though

I would not say it's game-breaking information, but it does suggest his behavior is more likely to be in his scum range. I will say he was quicker to attack here than in 2196. It's specifically post 40 - actually making a quick follow up post, that most feels out of character with 2190 and 2272 where he was town.

While I dislike Clidd not actually bringing those games up beforehand, they do make sense as reference points.

[Crescent]

Oh wow that's a good argument. I've been overlooking Gibus ever since I metaed him being town for voting me and just never even registered his vote on Elsa as serious. I didn't scrutinize it at all.

I've had some bad misses this game I did not have last game. Yikes.

That's worse than anything I ever did all game in 2272. Like, it's glaringly obviously worse.

[Crescent]

So basically just ignore his existence and hope he's town.

Never been sure why that kind of player even bothers to sign up.

[Crescent]

Side note: I had a sudden suspicion as to where that gaffe came from, and it's as stupid as it sounds.

Alex and Eira voted for "Elsa Jay"
Gibus voted for "Elsa"

My brain just totally did not connect it the way it was supposed to.

[Crescent]

It tips the scale more than a bit. Towns typically can't survive having even two of such players.

[Crescent]

Did Vivax move down or did the other two move up?

[Crescent]

He seriously just put names in random order on a rainbow font while of course putting himself at the bottom.

Why do you people even let this guy sign up for games? How do you read such nonsense

[Crescent]

He seriously just put names in random order on a rainbow font while of course putting himself at the bottom.

Why do you people even let this guy sign up for games? How do you read such nonsense

Just wait, it gets worse.

No really, I checked, it does. But apparently he gets a lot of kudos after games, so, Not_Bad_at_Mafia?

I have zero issue removing a player like this day 1 on policy if they refuse to contribute anything meaningful to the game. Even if said player is town, town still benefits by their removal as early as possible.

In 2272, town removed an openly detrimental player who ended up being town, but outright stopped playing to win on day 1. Town then went onto stomp the scum into the ground on days 2 and 3 so hard they conceded.

[Crescent]

Votes have come out faster this game than they did in the last one, despite half the player base having a vote down last game in less than a day. Interesting.

[Crescent]

Though what's not interesting? 8 different players having votes in a game of 13 is absolutely ridiculous. If there's anything scum always wants, it's that kinda total cluster****. Before those votes on NM, not sure anyone on that list was even above 2.

And the person I'd vote first right now to pressure isn't even on the list!

[Crescent]

Look up 219 and 221 and the answer is right there.

[Crescent]

Oh wow looking at his ISO again I completely missed the part where he said he was Vanya last game. Interesting. Very interesting.

He was so inactive he eventually got replaced, but he doesn't feel like remotely the same player. He constantly came off as abrasively pointed and I gut townread him for it. He voted aggressively and often, and as far as I can tell did not do so without an obvious reason (the vote on you) He practically seems... Aloof in comparison this game. Like, he was barely active last game, but he was way more of a factor when he was actually around to post than this.

[Crescent]

Anyways it just makes me want to pressure that slot even more now.

It doesn't take long at all to compare the two ISOs, either. The only thing that vibes similar is the specific way he questioned Alex when voting. I definitely want to see more out of him.

[Crescent]

There is no way that list is an accurate reflection of anyone's reads.

[Crescent]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

Eiralox I think you took his bait hook line and sinker. I wouldn't assume there's any meaning behind that list.

one can but try lol

Is there really a chance he's jester?

Eiralox I think you took his bait hook line and sinker. I wouldn't assume there's any meaning behind that list.

Eiralox still comes off as super duper salty towards me and I still don't think it's fake. I challenged the way they play and they can't let it go.

I stopped reading that chain of posts probably before I even got halfway through.

And please tell me Jester is banned here.

[Crescent]

Okay after having a truck issue and not so nice customers yesterday after other events, I slept without posting here again. My B.

I was kinda hoping we were gonna get Gibus out instead of NotMaf. The devil you know over the one you don't, you know? But it seems like at least Gibus is trying to do something.

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

This post is weird. We have almost 3 days left in day 1. I would assume things would eventually be done to avoid being murdered strictly on policy.

Why are you talking about NM as if he's already marked for death?

[Crescent]

But honestly I think the crucial thing with Eiralox is they don't understand the difference between obvious fluff made in jest, and fluff designed to look like content.

Anyways George hasn't shown up in over a day and has somehow barely given us more than NM has, yet wasn't even mentioned in that Elsa post. Actually an ISO says there's been a total blindspot for George in general.

So what do you think of his activity thus far?

[Crescent]

I stopped reading that chain of posts probably before I even got halfway through.

Noted. Town would have hunted for possible scumtells, so why ignore? And my recent posts make a very cogent summary of your greening of Gibus, as well as your blatant hypocrisy regarding what you see as fluff posts among other things. If you don't want to address those points, fine, evasiveness lures me like a rat to cheese.

Because my townread on you is strong and it would be a waste of my time.

Arguing against personal bias is pointless and only serves to derail towns.

[Crescent]

Like to put this in perspective, I actually put a player on *ignore* in a recent game, and the host let me do it. I'm pretty well just going to totally tune out your posts if the word fluff is in them.

If you wanna feud with me, it's going to be a one-way thing.

[Crescent]

I mean though, you even gave a good foundational argument in how I completely screwed up registering Gibus' vote on Elsa. That's the kind of attack you should be pursuing against someone if you legitimately think they're scum.

When you make it sound this personal, people don't follow. I've made it this personal a few times, myself. This isn't the kind of argument that is actually going to push votes forward on someone. Ironically, my pointing this out is more likely to get me voted than anything you've done so far.

[Crescent]

From some of the discussion it seems like a valid possibility it'll end in his demise. Not garunteed, but likely. But that's why I wanna interact today with everyone since I'll be busy again tomorrow. See if the inspiration kicks in and i nail who it is before that.

Ok mafia lesson over shutting up on that topic now and moving on.

I wouldn't.. Really say any voteoff is particularly likely at the moment. People will get off NM if he does something. The biggest issue is we are horrifyingly split on votes while waiting for content from multiple players.

What we need most is people coming to an actual consensus of sorts or we're just handing control of the vote over to the scumteam. Treating NM like one feels very dangerous

[Crescent]

Dismissive =/= evasive. It's already been pointed out the arguments based on meta yesterday-two days ago are completely reversed from the arguments they should be making. There was one meta-based argument there, and I already made it for you a while ago, since you weren't making it yourself.

I would be legitimately surprised if you flipped scum. That's all I really need out of you right now.

And lord my gut still says NM is town and I hate it because my desire to murder people like him is very strong.

[Crescent]

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Yo @Not_Mafia, can u expand on ur Elsa Jay, Clidd, Alexcellent and Vivax placements? Any method behind the rainbow or will you continue to be mute?

i am amused by your attempt to get sense from not mafia

best of luck with that

What we need most is people coming to an actual consensus of sorts or we're just handing control of the vote over to the scumteam. Treating NM like one feels very dangerous

i cant work out why, but this obvious desperation for wagons to form makes me uncomfortable.

We have less than 3 days left and an 8-way vote split. This is a

nightmare scenario

for town. We have virtually no control over who gets voted off like this and no way of actually pressuring anyone.

I said this immediately when I saw how split the vote is. If you're town and not alarmed by that vote spread that's a you problem.

It doesnt matter who scum is. They've loved how this day has progressed so far. This goes double if NM is town.

[Crescent]

In that vein I think we're close to a point where anyone who's a solo vote on a train has scum equity - Especially those who have done absolutely nothing to push said train.

And looking at the vote list, both Gibus and George fit that bill to a T.

Gibus and Elsa are countervoting and Gera/Clidd are countervoting.

But Gibus has not held up on his end of the bargain in actually pushing and explaining his vote.

VCA says pressure Gibus or George.

[Crescent]

Also I'd go as far as to say if that vote spread is still around 24 hours from now, we may as well just flip coins because it has the same chance of hitting scum as we would at that point.

0 people have actually been pressured so far, and my #1 would make a 9th different vote. I do feel like Gibus is having people talk about voting him, and then those votes don't come.

[Crescent]

Basically though, even a train on *me* is better than what we currently have. We then have votes to analyze and an actual player under pressure. There's so little here to actually analyze.

And if NM continues to do absolutely nothing we just murder him later. Those 4 votes aren't doing anything useful being there at the moment. It's not helping game solve or generate content.

[Crescent]

Dismissive =/= evasive.

not in my eyes. you are yet to address why you so strongly believed gibus' vote not to be random page 2 and therefore enough for a blanket town read.
you are yet to address your change in general post content going from #146. why did your reads only solidify after my post? My initial feeling of you acting defensive still stands.

eh, alea iacta est I guess.

Because I thought his "stick to the basics line" meant he had an actual reason for voting me. I had already answered this question.

You came off as genuinely angry and spiteful. I don't believe it's fake. I had already answered this question.

[Crescent]

We have less than 3 days left and an 8-way vote split. This is a

nightmare scenario

for town. We have virtually no control over who gets voted off like this and no way of actually pressuring anyone.

I said this immediately when I saw how split the vote is. If you're town and not alarmed by that vote spread that's a you problem.

It doesnt matter who scum is. They've loved how this day has progressed so far. This goes double if NM is town.

then lets just no vote, that surely has to be better than what you are expecting to happen

So you bring up the one scenario that's

even worse

...

[Crescent]

Interestingly enough, an ISO of Gibus shows he defended Gera and George at the same time but otherwise has done virtually nothing this game.

And to look further... Both Gera and Gibus have both defended George at one point, and Gibus/Gera have defended each other at one point. Them all being scum would be too easy, but there is a very very high chance there's at least one scum in Gera and Gibus buddying up here.

[Crescent]

Mafias just need to play better than the worst looking players in town.

Where would you look if you didn't have to look at NM or gibus, for now?

I think if the name starts with a G, they're worth pressuring right now. Way too much internal defense in that cluster for me to think it's all town.

[Crescent]

(And all three of them have independent reasons to have scum equity that don't even relate to each other.)

[Crescent]

Wait damnit there's a 4th G.

You know the three Gs I mean. GB, Gera, and Gibus,

[Crescent]

You know what screw it. The scum equity isn't as high as I'd like but I just noticed something critical. The surge on votes on NM ended at post 260 and started at post 269.

Neither Gibus nor George have posted since. They've been inactive for almost a day and over a day, respectively.

I think NM is town that scum is happy to watch get all the attention and at least one of these guys is hiding scum. Time to drag them out.

VOTE: Gibus

Get the hell in here.

[Crescent]

Corwinoid is not a "bad" next choice.

Lotta side comments, and his only super direct read on someone is calling NM "hella sus" for being a dick. He was later the 4th vote on him.

NM isn't "town" regardless of his alignment, but it was still weak to go from 0 to 100 like that. The vote is awkward, and he essentially acts like it's just NM being NM shortly after said vote. So, where did the "hella sus" go?

[Crescent]

Ah I overlooked that George already did have a vote, it was just after that previous vote update.

...So we DID have 9 different trains anyway. We summoned Gibus. Wonder if we could summon George too.

[Crescent]

Gibus ISO doesn't even look bad to me anyways. Just less...judgmental and more silent. Playing around a bit at the entrance with his copy of Elsa. I like where UNOwens vote is.

Gibus ISO is a whole lotta nothing that dropped off a cliff once NM got votes.

As someone multiple people were already discussing voting, I felt it was time to drag him back into the game.

...I just didn't expect it to be that quick.

[Crescent]

How interesting that I start a push on the two people who appear to be hiding from the game and then both of them show up in short order...

[Crescent]

I'm lurking cause I had an awful sleep last night, I can barely think.

I'll catch up tonight sorry

Beatlejuice
Beatlejuice

Also this is another post that doesn't vibe remotely similarly to how he vibed in 2272. He didn't make joke posts like this.

[Crescent]

Tbh the big push on Gibus feels bad. His ISO is lacking but I don't see anything that screams scum to me.

Also keen to hear from George.

P-Edit: pretty much what Vivax said. Looking forward to the catch up George.

I went with the one who already had a vote. I didn't realize George also had one but I didn't want to split the votes any further.

But.... It did it's job, and got BOTH of them to post. My desire to kill George is still higher than my desire to kill Gibus.

UNVOTE: Gibus

[Crescent]

I made it clear when I voted that the scum equity wasn't high enough and the primary drive was to force the hiding players to post. My vote served it's intended purpose~

[Crescent]

Would sure be nice if anyone would compare GB here to Uncle Vanya last game because it's apparently the same person but there's exactly one post GB has made all game that vibes remotely similarly to the 27 he made last game.

I feel like there's been some active resistance from some people into actually looking into GB.

[Crescent]

That said... I actually can't find a scum/scum motive there. I don't understand what my purpose would be in voting for him only to have him immediately post after because that would serve no value but to make him look worse. It's better just to nudge him into doing something without the theatrics because it gets him scum equity and reflects null on me. It's a net negative.

[Crescent]

Tbh the big push on Gibus feels bad. His ISO is lacking but I don't see anything that screams scum to me.

Also keen to hear from George.

P-Edit: pretty much what Vivax said. Looking forward to the catch up George.

I went with the one who already had a vote. I didn't realize George also had one but I didn't want to split the votes any further.

But.... It did it's job, and got BOTH of them to post. My desire to kill George is still higher than my desire to kill Gibus.

UNVOTE: Gibus

K, I just don't understand this or the motive behind it. Gibus isn't at any risk of immediate elimination, like there's no risk he's going to quickly be rushed to a hammer.
Are you genuinely happy with the content Gibus has provided since you voted him? What happens if he stops posting again, do you vote him again? Like I dunno if this is scummy or just perplexing to me.
Maybe it's a playstyle thing but it feels a lot more like you're being very careful and anxious about what wagon you're on.

Can I have your reads, please, Crescent?

No, I'm not, but Gibus was never my first choice anyway. I just went with the guy who A. Had a vote, and B. Someone I think is Town (Eiralox) was willing to vote. I went with the easier of the two to pressure into activity, because good lord this vote split is insane and anti-town and it's boggling my mind how no one can see having votes on NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE is a bad thing.

GB has been my #1 for a good two days now, but people have constantly overlooked his total lack of existence for Gibus or for NM, or that he looks completely different from how he played in the very last game.


Eiralox is about as big a locktown as I'm ever putting someone on day 1.

You and Elsa are probably T/T but I don't have that same confidence thre.

Gera, Gibus, Corwi all also have varying degrees of scum equity. Clidd kinda does too for his awkwardness about Gera, but it did at least turn into a fair point against Gera.

I mean like... These are all things I've already said multiple times, except maybe the point on Corwi.

[Crescent]

I think a lot of the issue is when you're almost doubling #2 in posts and almost tripling #3 you just get asked a lot of questions you've already answered. This disparity was nowhere near this bad last game.

[Crescent]

And I'm on pace for significantly less posts on day 1, too.

zzzzzz.

[Crescent]

Thanks for your reads. It's good to get things summed up.

Goldfish/Unowen/Vivax are absent from that post, any thoughts on them?

Ah yes, I did have something to say about Vivax earlier that I forgot to rehash.

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

This looks pretty good if GB is in fact scum. My response to it looks comically bad if he's scum, too~

I briefly pointed out Unowen is a low poster that has pinged me in no specific direction somewhere in a single post. There's more of a natural flow to their posts than to GB's, but there isn't much there.

I don't think I've said anything about Goldfish the entire game. Like, anything at all. Maybe I should ISO them. Completely avoided my radar in every way. Like, I even said there were three "G" players earlier and then I realized Goldfish existed and actually made it 4.

[Crescent]

My one take from Goldfish ISO is they've occasionally defended other players but there's a vote on NM and nothing even resembling a scumread on anyone in there.

In the "needs to do more" pile as a result.

[Crescent]

That line means nothing. "I think I could find reasons to scumread you both, but I'm not going to try" is a pretty blatant hedge. It's probably the worst thing about the ISO that it's the closest thing he has to making a scumread.

[Crescent]

The entire purpose of my vote was to get him/both of them to post, and it ultimately served it's purpose in drawing both of them out. Gibus was one of 8 people who already had a vote in the most recent update. At the time, I believed GB did *not* have a vote and thus mine would be creating a 9th unique train (and no one bothered to correct me when I specifically brought this up a couple of times). This is alone the primary reason I voted Gibus over GB. If I had noticed GB also already had a vote, I would've gone there as that is my strongest scumread. I am very unimpressed by the way either of them handled their summonings, though.

This is one of the most anti-town votespreads I've ever seen in years of playing mafia, and I was not going to make it even worse by creating another new train.

Scorpious did the exact same thing with grilling me last game concerning the way I vote.

[Crescent]

That specific kind of vote may be related to 48/24s being my norm, in which you have much less time to force the lurkers out of hiding. Both falling off the map after NM got votes is the kind of thing that rings alarm bells that need to be answered sooner rather than later.

[Crescent]

Some guy last game who got bad vibes from like, everything I ever did with my votes.

This is just a redux of that.

[Crescent]

I think I’m starting to lean away from NM wagon.
Will wait to see what George has to say, and wouldn’t mind seeing more from Goldfish

P-Edit: he sounds like a smart bloke

I feel like there's been too much waiting for NM to do something and not enough forcing other players who had barely done anything to do something.

Sure NM is an automatic kill if he keeps not doing anything, but that combined with this vote split has allowed other nothing players to coast by.

GB said content is coming "tonight". Let's see if he delivers.

[Crescent]

Tbh the big push on Gibus feels bad. His ISO is lacking but I don't see anything that screams scum to me.

Also keen to hear from George.

P-Edit: pretty much what Vivax said. Looking forward to the catch up George.

I went with the one who already had a vote. I didn't realize George also had one but I didn't want to split the votes any further.

But.... It did it's job, and got BOTH of them to post. My desire to kill George is still higher than my desire to kill Gibus.

UNVOTE: Gibus

If all you want from pressure is to people to post prod dodging posts, then you aren't going to move the game forward much

Oh ok Gera is probably scum Clidd is right. This kind of post doesn't vibe with 2272 Gera at all.

That being Gera's comment on the matter, ignoring everything that came before and after, just made his scum equity rocket.

Compare this to Alex, who REALLY pushed on me for it. Alex is town, Gera is scum. There we go.

Gera/GB scum Gibus town is how I could see that trio playing out now following this.

[Crescent]

Anyways, I'm not doing anything until GB actually does something again, but that was easily the hardest thing anyone's done to scum ping me this game. That's scum shading me and Gibus at the same time while contributing absolutely nothing on his own and completely ignoring the actual conversation.

[Crescent]

Oh and you're welcome, everyone. I just got a scum to effectively out himself with my "useless" vote.

[Crescent]

Comparing people to their previous games is not only a vital part of reading them; I'm not even the first person to do it with Gera. I ISOed Gera in

two entire games

because Clidd pointed those two out.

Like, if people are too lazy to compare all of GB's 27 posts last game to his all of 9 here then that's on them. This is... 3? 5? minutes of work apparently no one in the game wants to put in. It's honestly kind of pathetic.

[Crescent]

Honestly though, this game in general significantly pales to 2292 and it's getting kind of grating on me how hard I have to work to get half this game to actually try. Apparently that includes you, too.

[Crescent]

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

[Crescent]

Oh and Goldfish my one critique of you is I have absolutely no idea of who you even want to vote for because you're on NM because "reasons" and haven't actually indicated anyone you actually think is scummy and worth pressuring.

So instead of critiquing me for telling you to get off your ass - Get off your ass.

[Crescent]

k now I'm just getting mad at the sheer lack of effort people like Goldfish are giving compared to the amount of energy they're wasting complaining about me trying to get them to try, and I'm a danger to myself and everyone around me when I play mad.

I'm taking the rest of the night off. It's for the best for everything.

[Crescent]

And NM has... 1 post while I've been gone.

And it's... A vote. Interesting. On George, whose posts doubled and included a good vote on Gera. I also find it interesting that Gera had plenty of chances to point out right away that I did similar with my vote before (like GB did), but instead ignored the conversation entirely and shaded my play instead with no further contributions. The complete lack of actually responding to the conversation and picking at the easiest point to mock is tremendous scum equity, and I see he did nothing to fix this and just.. Dismissed me later. He basically ignored 150-200 posts of gameplay.

GB's explanation for his behavior is exactly why I hate people playing on alts, by the way.

Anyways without reading the posts of anyone but those three, Gera is still a high probability scum can we kill it so mafia can shoot me tonight?

I have no idea what votals are now. Suppose with those ISOs out of the way I'll drag myself back into the meat of it.

[Crescent]

Oh it was only like... 32 other posts to read. Of course.

17 hours... And almost nothing of substance... And of course more posts of people whining about me wanting them to put actual work into a mafia game.

Scum's going to win this game - This town is too lazy to do anything but end up in coinflips.

Seriously please shoot me tonight. Please. If you don't shoot me tonight, the disdain I feel for this sad sack of a town will be focused squarely on you guys instead.

[Crescent]

I knew it was a mistake to read the rest of the posts, too. All it did was sour me back up.

40 hours left in the day I see. Then hopefully the sweet release of death.

[Crescent]

Oh it was only like... 32 other posts to read. Of course.

17 hours... And almost nothing of substance... And of course more posts of people whining about me wanting them to put actual work into a mafia game.

Scum's going to win this game - This town is too lazy to do anything but end up in coinflips.

Seriously please shoot me tonight. Please. If you don't shoot me tonight, the disdain I feel for this sad sack of a town will be focused squarely on you guys instead.

huh you really like making friends. i don't see George's reason for voting for Gera as substantive at all. might be town confirmation bias from your side. I'm feeling you're way too eager to green George at this point after earlier throwing shade on them. we'll see.

Either stop tunneling me and actually do something else or actually try to get me voted off.

I don't care which.

[Crescent]

Oh it was only like... 32 other posts to read. Of course.

17 hours... And almost nothing of substance... And of course more posts of people whining about me wanting them to put actual work into a mafia game.

Scum's going to win this game - This town is too lazy to do anything but end up in coinflips.

Seriously please shoot me tonight. Please. If you don't shoot me tonight, the disdain I feel for this sad sack of a town will be focused squarely on you guys instead.

huh you really like making friends. i don't see George's reason for voting for Gera as substantive at all. might be town confirmation bias from your side. I'm feeling you're way too eager to green George at this point after earlier throwing shade on them. we'll see.

Either stop tunneling me and actually do something else or actually try to get me voted off.

I don't care which.

[Crescent]

The only thing I'm actually curious about in everything that happened is why NM voted for GB. GB is now more of a null to me, but his vote is in the right spot.

Given it came with no context at all, was it even a serious vote?

[Crescent]

Basically Eiralox strikes me as someone convinced by sheer dislike of me more than actually thinking I'm scum. Which, given where I come from, I'm used to just by virtue of being female.

So everything I ever say will turn into a blind reason for her to call me scum. Even getting a scum flip on Gera will not make this stop. I know players like this.

So either actually try to kill me with it or can it. It's too late in the day for our #2 poster to be saying almost the exact same thing every post without fully committing to it.

[Crescent]

Oh it was only like... 32 other posts to read. Of course.

17 hours... And almost nothing of substance... And of course more posts of people whining about me wanting them to put actual work into a mafia game.

Scum's going to win this game - This town is too lazy to do anything but end up in coinflips.

Seriously please shoot me tonight. Please. If you don't shoot me tonight, the disdain I feel for this sad sack of a town will be focused squarely on you guys instead.

huh you really like making friends. i don't see George's reason for voting for Gera as substantive at all. might be town confirmation bias from your side. I'm feeling you're way too eager to green George at this point after earlier throwing shade on them. we'll see.

Either stop tunneling me and actually do something else or actually try to get me voted off.

I don't care which.

i don't think you've been readin this thread at all. this hyper-defensiveness(not only towards me btw, towards a lot of us) isn't helping you imo. tunneling you? tell me another. Earlier, yes, and I admitted it. Now? you don't have a leg to stand on.

Oh, just shut up.

Kill me, or don't.

Otherwise, shut up.

[Crescent]

I don't think Elsa suggesting she didn't give me any further thought until now after my lame response to her initial poke is a good sign for her alignment.

How long was the time gap between the two?

[Crescent]

Oh and for the record I would have you on ignore right now if it were legal because your existence is distracting me from game solving. It was a MASSIVE help when I did it in a recent town game.

[Crescent]

Oh and for the record I would have you on ignore right now if it were legal because your existence is distracting me from game solving. It was a MASSIVE help when I did it in a recent town game.

[Crescent]

Basically Eiralox strikes me as someone convinced by sheer dislike of me more than actually thinking I'm scum. Which, given where I come from, I'm used to just by virtue of being female.

So everything I ever say will turn into a blind reason for her to call me scum. Even getting a scum flip on Gera will not make this stop. I know players like this.

So either actually try to kill me with it or can it. It's too late in the day for our #2 poster to be saying almost the exact same thing every post without fully committing to it.

again, there's a disconnect here. you haven't been reading imo. My scum leans are Elsa and George atm. I quote one post and you're onto me like a honey badger. And this after basically insulting everyone else here. Well, at this point I don't see the value in engaging with you. It muddies the waters and that I dislike. Good luck and have fun, see you on the other side.

You've called me scum a good 30 times this game. I'm not sure why you took me off your leans list but it's obvious as hell to anyone with eyes.

...Actually removing me from said list is... I actually don't understand the motive for doing it at all.

[Crescent]

Actually that's a really good forum question:

Why would someone who insists on calling me scum virtually every time I post assumedly take me off their vote list for the day? Is it just because I'm actually playing when half the game isn't?

[Crescent]

Elsa's ISO is.... A lot more lacking than I expected it to be. Out of these 32 posts, there's less substance than I thought.

There isn't anything there that really screams town to me nor anything that screams scum to me. Some combined reads posts but they don't actually talk about most of the people in them. I would say it feels like a player that could be doing more than they are, but as for what that means that tends to be player specific.

[Crescent]

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

No, but I don't have a scumread either.

I don't think his recent callout on UnOwen was scummy, I think it's pretty fair to call out someone for tunneling when they have very little expansion on their read.

Did he go in a townie way about it? Often mafia think they can't possibly be scumread off so little, and you get these discharges of frustration. In TvT in my experience it can lead to page-long shitfights, not this meek type of complaining.
As town he'd be better off ignoring it and offering a better alternative, he was also not the top wagon at the moment of the post iirc.

Either way, at best you'd have a reason to ask Owen to expand on his read, not call him mafia when Corwin isn't in your obvtown-pile.

I've hard scumread someone

two posts

into a game before. Yes, yes it often gets underestimated what can be picked up on.

It ultimately depends on the player. Higher end players tend to be more careful early on and stay firmly in their "null" zone. Lesser players or players who haven't played in a while can be more loose early and it can get them into trouble. Corwi doesn't have

high

scum equity, but he's had some level of scum equity essentially all game.

[Crescent]

Alrighty. Making my own tentative list of townies and scum.

People who are probs good

Crescent
Vivax
Umlaut
Alex
Eiralox
Clidd

Peeps who need more analysis

Corwin
Goldfish
George
Owen
Gera

If they die I wouldn't mind

NotMaf
Gibus

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

I think you forgot to remake your list while remaking your list.
Also, the host is in the town pile xD

Huh... Yet another thing I should've noticed on my own. Lord I'm not sharp this game.

The host being in that pile is either a total ADHD moment by town, or it's a major gaffe by scum just pulling names out of a hat to order randomly and accidentally including the host.

Now to somehow figure out which..

[Crescent]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time ago, too. I'd like to hear a renewed argument from both Elsa and Gibus about why their votes are still there. Uno's spoken on it lately, Corwi countervoted because he got... Tired of it? Gera blatantly countered on Clidd, then called it "random" (sure. "random".) and has left it sitting there while shading me. But these two? I need more out of these two.

I'm not sure I've ever seen so much countervoting as I have so far this game.

[Crescent]

Eiralox is about as big a locktown as I'm ever putting someone on day 1.

When did I ever say otherwise?

Though, I just figured out the answer.

You're getting off on this antagonism. You want to keep me around so you can continue to do so.

[Crescent]

Spoiler:

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

No, but I don't have a scumread either.

I don't think his recent callout on UnOwen was scummy, I think it's pretty fair to call out someone for tunneling when they have very little expansion on their read.

Did he go in a townie way about it? Often mafia think they can't possibly be scumread off so little, and you get these discharges of frustration. In TvT in my experience it can lead to page-long shitfights, not this meek type of complaining.
As town he'd be better off ignoring it and offering a better alternative, he was also not the top wagon at the moment of the post iirc.

Either way, at best you'd have a reason to ask Owen to expand on his read, not call him mafia when Corwin isn't in your obvtown-pile.

I've hard scumread someone

two posts

into a game before. Yes, yes it often gets underestimated what can be picked up on.

It ultimately depends on the player. Higher end players tend to be more careful early on and stay firmly in their "null" zone. Lesser players or players who haven't played in a while can be more loose early and it can get them into trouble. Corwi doesn't have

high

scum equity, but he's had some level of scum equity essentially all game.

Alrighty. Making my own tentative list of townies and scum.

People who are probs good

Crescent
Vivax
Umlaut
Alex
Eiralox
Clidd

Peeps who need more analysis

Corwin
Goldfish
George
Owen
Gera

If they die I wouldn't mind

NotMaf
Gibus

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

I think you forgot to remake your list while remaking your list.
Also, the host is in the town pile xD

Huh... Yet another thing I should've noticed on my own. Lord I'm not sharp this game.

The host being in that pile is either a total ADHD moment by town, or it's a major gaffe by scum just pulling names out of a hat to order randomly and accidentally including the host.

Now to somehow figure out which..

I don't know if Corwin is higher end. Most high tier scum players I have experienced are able to cover up their mistakes just by being spammy as f*ck and having an imposant personality, so they end up convincing others that whatever their mistake was wasn't a big deal, plus they control part of the thread narrative through their presence. Takes lots of motivation though, so often you spot such a personality being mafia because you fish out a weaker teammate (so the stronger player loses motivation).

Could Elsa be the stronger player and one or two teammates under pressure so she fell off? Might take a few cycles to find that out.

Corwin said he hasn't played in ages. Rust is absolutely a thing when your first game back is a scum game. My issue with Corwi is there just isn't much there and what is there hasn't often given the inflection of actual game solving. I have yet to be convinced by him that he's actually trying to figure this game out, rather than just existing in it.

Mm, personally I'm more of a cut the head of the snake person off... If I'm really scum vibing on who I think scum's "leader" is, I will go right for them. Without their presence, the lessers tend to fall apart very quickly. Letting scum control the narrative of a game is the #1 way towns lose (and I think this town isn't committed enough to prevent exactly this from happening later in the game). If you can get rid of a vocal leader early, you cripple their ability to control the narrative. The higher the energy of the game, the greater the risk/reward ratio favors going for it.

[Crescent]

Uh. 471 was Eiralox quoting something out of post #365.

Why are you just now taking offense to something that was originally said 106 posts ago?

[Crescent]

There's just one thing that nags at me a little in 470, but it could be a difference in play. Town's best chance in this game is to figure out as much as possible before the all of like, 3-4 town people who are actually giving it serious effort are dead. Letting anyone "take a few cycles to figure out" has massive backfire potential.

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

[Crescent]

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

This technically has nothing to do with my reads? I have town reads on Eiralox and Alex right now.

But I think if either are scum, this town is already dead. There's no way either of these two would get caught in a day 4/day 5 situation unless they made a massive gaffe.

[Crescent]

And the reason for that is town doesn't have enough committed players. Either one could lead whatever town is left alive at that point like the sheep they are.

[Crescent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

[Crescent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

That would be the better question, yes. To come back after 6 years and roll scum would be rough regardless.

I know exactly what vibes I'm getting out of him right now though. I just want to see more.

[Crescent]

Oh I was waiting to see if Gera would go from countervoting Clidd to trying to preemptively vote me and there we go.

[Crescent]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

This technically has nothing to do with my reads? I have town reads on Eiralox and Alex right now.

But I think if either are scum, this town is already dead. There's no way either of these two would get caught in a day 4/day 5 situation unless they made a massive gaffe.

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this. I've not played with you enough to know why you have this attitude, and it feels very different to the previous game I was with you.

I had faith in the last town. I have no faith in this one.

But you havent actually been reading the game again.

[Crescent]

I've had enough. Calling my random vote not random and using it as an excuse to scum read me is passing me off.
VOTE: Crescent

For someone so insistent everyone should go back and read every players previous games, to think I didn't random vote is mind boggling

Fair point, I don't backread so I won't know either way. In my eyes your vote was still early enough for a random vote to be acceptable(it came just after Gibus's Alex-inspired cat vote, which got no flak).

I'm still happy with where my vote is now though.

Yes, because a direct counter vote is "random".

[Crescent]

Like let's go with occam's razor here:

He just happened to, at 1/12 probability, "randomly" vote a player, and randomly do this almost immediately after said player voted for him?

Or he just counter voted, and only in later posts claimed it was random to justify it.

Occam's razor says it's the latter.

[Crescent]

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this.

Agree.

This town CAN only win if it gets everything right. Half the game is a borderline waste of a playerslot.

[Crescent]

If this wasn't involving me, Eira would see how asinine Gera's claim of randomness is.

[Crescent]

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this.

Agree.

This town CAN only win if it gets everything right. Half the game is a borderline waste of a playerslot.

Honestly after N_M voted for George, you should be celebrant.

Are we ever going to get a WHY?

[Crescent]

I will say though, that vote from NM is arguably higher value than anything we've gotten out of Goldfish this entire game

I kinda just get super lazy town vibes from Goldfish more than scummy vibes though.

[Crescent]

Interesting how he questioned me on something pointless, but did NOT question what vibes I hinted l was getting from him.

He instead follows with another post that continues to give me "scum that doesn't understand why he's being suspected" vibes. Vivax's response is pretty on point.

[Crescent]

Ugh, so this really is the one instance of the joke player blatantly countervoting at the most suspicious time possible... As a joke.

I think I hate this game just that little more, now.

[Crescent]

I didn't even figure out how you random voted last game and I didn't care, to be fair.

I don't respect the process in the slightest.

[Crescent]

Buuuuut it also still does absolutely nothing concerning the original reason I called you scum to begin with aka ignoring 150 posts of conversation just to pick out and shade the lowest hanging fruit among all of it.

It does weaken the overall argument, though.

[Crescent]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

Because you still didn't post a read on GeorgeBayley.

Your main goal seems to dismiss arguments, not build them.

If you are town and the wagon next to you is GeorgeBayley, and you don't know the alignment of GeorgeBayley, you can save yourself by getting him voted, which is the correct play 100% of the time.

And this is the biggest issue I have from him. Right there.

[Crescent]

So, i shown the evidence for my random vote, and you are still claiming I deliberately counter voted someone. Which would require me knowing in advance the player I wanted to vote was going to post exactly 28 posts after mine, that is seriously your case against me?

I am voting you the rest of today, vote locked

I acknowledged your vote was random, just that I didn't respect it at all.

[Crescent]

My case against you are from posts #384 and #385. You dodge EVERYTHING going on, shade me once, and then run off. This reeks of scum chiming in at the lowest possible point and hoping it suffices.

[Crescent]

I find it interesting though.

My vote on Clidd is NOT even the original reason I called him scum, yet he's very insistent in acting like it's the only reason.

[Crescent]

His vote on Clidd I changed the sentence structure and botched the pronouns yay

[Crescent]

Anyway while Ger is trying to figure out how to respond to the actual reasons I called him scum to begin with (or has already gone back into hiding), back to Corwin.

Corwin... What do you actually think of what's going on right now? I see a lot of focus on softly defending yourself, but what I don't see is actual genuine attempts to solve the game.

[Crescent]

Yes, yes, continue to get off on antagonizing me. I know it's your number one pleasure this game.

At least I'm actually trying to solve the game. All you've been trying to do for the last 2 days is make me angry enough to quit.

Quick get Goldfish to come in and make 3 posts whining about me instead of actually trying to play the game that might work again.

[Crescent]

One thing Eira: I come from a place where quite literally half the playerbase is a bunch of elitist, sexist guys, who do shit like this with every woman who ever plays there. I deal with players like you trying to make me quit every single game I play there.

It's the mass of people not trying at all who will always piss me off the most. People like NM are an abomination to the game that shouldn't be allowed to sign up.

[Crescent]

Annnnd now this worthless hospital has somehow managed to lose my workers' comp information for a second time so time to burn another hour or two giving it to them a third time.

...Hard to find good help these days.

[Crescent]

One thing Eira: I come from a place where quite literally half the playerbase is a bunch of elitist, sexist guys, who do shit like this with every woman who ever plays there. I deal with players like you trying to make me quit every single game I play there.

It's the mass of people not trying at all who will always piss me off the most. People like NM are an abomination to the game that shouldn't be allowed to sign up.

Don't paint people in a different community with the brush of another one.

NM's low content D1 isn't helpful, yes, but I happen to find his particular brand of shit posting amusing, but barely, so right now he's getting a pass.

Eira trying to make me quit is for different reasons but it's the same thing ultimately. Eira just really, intensely dislikes me.

[Crescent]

Love that Ger completely ignored my initial and still valid reason for voting him, "locked" his vote on me on false pretenses, and ran from the game.

Interesting two votes on Owen who has been in my null zone like, this entire time. Can either of you elaborate more?

[Crescent]

Interesting two votes on Owen who has been in my null zone like, this entire time. Can either of you elaborate more?

The scum team Eira is making have to vote together. Vote Owen with us Cres.

Oh, I get it now.

...But that doesn't answer why *him* to begin with.

[Crescent]

And lord do I get some.... "said the spider to the fly" vibes from that Elsa right now.

I *just* said I null read Owen. I've made it pretty clear this game I've never really had any meaningful read on him.

[Crescent]

Interesting two votes on Owen who has been in my null zone like, this entire time. Can either of you elaborate more?

The scum team Eira is making have to vote together. Vote Owen with us Cres.

Oh, I get it now.

...But that doesn't answer why *him* to begin with.

I mean. My readlist did put him on the bottom of it. Why wouldn't I vote there. Minus the policy ones, it's my biggest scum read. Is it wrong to vote there?

The thing is more I just saw two people vote the same guy without a single word at the time as to why they did it.

[Crescent]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

@Unowen, can you expand on your Corwin read? I'm not getting it

The initial vote was because I thought 24 was a little awkward, but it's mainly his posts since about you/Elsa that look phoney. My impression is that he's gone backwards, asking a fairly pointless question of Elsa, then shading the exchange between you, then coming with an elaboration on his thoughts but retracting it because the whole thing is arbitrary. 194 reads to me almost like an apology for raising it in the first place.

Spoiler:

I think part of it is the pronoun "her" in 79 threw me for a bit because I dropped the context for it, so I thought you were referring to Elsa. George was right that your vote seems oddly placed there. And then she signs off with the OMGUS/"Riddle that vote" post, which goes from 74 that seemed like a mellow promoting activity and avoiding division to 87 a couple of hours later where she's looking for a fight.

I think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill though, I think her progression is more organic than I thought, and I think I misread or was confused by your posts starting the exchange because of the context change.

1) he's saying he didn't like your vote because he agrees with George's 85 but that it also might be because he got confused by another post of yours.
2) notes Elsa's progression as though it's a jarring but that you voted her in a pretty accusatory way in between these posts which to me is a pretty obvious explainer for why she would change her perspective.
3) again, the question of whether Elsa considers herself a strong personality seems completely irrelevant to whatever issues he had with that exchange. Supposedly if she'd answered "No." then that would be suggest she was pretending but I don't see how at all. Is someone who doesn't consider themselves a strong personality not supposed to react to votes against them? If the idea was that Elsa faked her reaction to Alex, the intuitive way to press this is by asking her about her vote on Alex.

Too political, not an organic tone and a weak slot overall ^

He'd enter the classification of ''wispy activity but trying to look towny'', which I think would be the standard approach to a scum!Uno scenario.

"Skulking" is how I've seen it called. How indicative it is tends to depend on the player. How much experience do you have playing with him?

[Crescent]

Owen is tied with George and Gibus for second lowest poster in the game. It feels like he's posted more than those two and he's in that activity range where him being scum wouldn't surprise me. He's now at 3 votes... Let's see how he reacts to some pressure.

[Crescent]

We give free coffee and/or tea.

I had tea about an hour ago.

Coffee is disgusting hellspawn designed to enslave the souls of mankind~

[Crescent]

Now I'm curious did NM's vote on him come before or after that Gera vote?

Interesting, I think I just figured out NM's reason for voting GB. His vote was shortly *after*.

[Crescent]

I asked this earlier and never got an answer that I can remember. Is Jester actually a thing here? I've played with Jester as a hard banned role for several years.

[Crescent]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

I have read this half a dozen times now while re-reading and updating notes... and every time it just sticks out like a fucking sore thumb. Why in the world would you think/suggest this?

It's the first thing he posted.
If he's as good at telling the truth as he is at voting mafia, I should be worried.

Jester ain't allowed in Normal games. He says it every game too.

Oh there we go.

Who asked this first?

[Crescent]

If Corwin asked first I could see it being a reasonably uninformed question that's just NAI. I don't see it being an argument against him.

[Crescent]

If your join date is any indication, this is your first game here. I don't see why that would be scummy. There's a very specific meta about third parties out of the blue that I'm used to and is actually fairly accurate, but Jester has never been in that meta, nor do I know if that meta even applies here.

It's basically just a total null, but it plays into the feeling that he's spending too much time on himself and not looking like he's actually solving.

[Crescent]

It's total null on you, I mean. His reaction feels like countershady frustration.


I've been waiting for Corwin to actually respond to my vibes post. He didn't question what they were originally, nor did he respond to them once I said what they were.

He did, however, ask me a question that was ultimately almost useless.

[Crescent]

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

[Crescent]

I mean, from the best possible perspective where he's town, he could have suggested that I had no reason to assume a jester in the game because he somehow didn't read and missed NM claiming jester right off the bat.

I completely ignored his first post and the Jester claim within. Didn't actually expect it to ever get taken seriously.

[Crescent]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia

I haven't played with you in a year and your still using a basic rainbow self vote intro? I thought you'd get new material NotMaf.

Tradition never dies

I mean... Me and NotMaf both said it was a normal thing immediately after. Almost like people ignored the following conversation to throw shade at him for no reason. Besides his normal behavior I mean.

The only thing that's changed is Clodpoles from "fuckers" and fecal matter from "shit". Probably to be more PG-13.

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

Any player who's played enough normal games or reads the wiki provided by the queue knows no 3rd parties exist in Normal games besides Serial Killer. And those are only in Large games last I checked.

I didn't know it was banned, I just autoassumed it was banned as it should be. Isn't Vivax new? Or did I miss that it's an alt?

[Crescent]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

I think Corwinoid just unintentionally built a case for me being town.

He said I would care enough to want to know if there's a jester so I asked if there's a jester, ergo I cared enough.

Or maybe I'm mafia because I asked instead of looking it up on the wiki.

Is Corwinoid really so hard to spot as mafia? :d

The problem is his argument is shown to be completely void as your Jester comment was null.

And NOW he votes you?

Corwin I'm struggling to find the procession here. How did this turn into you being so confident on Vivax?

[Crescent]

Like 594 and 595 feel directly contradictory to a natural process of voting for Vivax.

[Crescent]

Nowhere in that post did Gera mention the point of the game I got super scummy vibes from him.

Yawn.

[Crescent]

It's not just that.

Everything that directly to that Vivax vote last page feels unnatural. The vote placement is just the word part of it.

It looks like he was fishing for a reason to vote him, acknowledged he was losing said reason, then voted him anyway.

[Crescent]

...Led directly to

...Worst part of it.


Yikes that post failed.

[Crescent]

That is a ridiculously weak reasoning to change votes, especially given the same reason existed hundreds of posts ago and it's only Vivax coming after you that really seemed to aggro you.

[Crescent]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

And you choose the one without a wagon and not targeting you all game? Why get off of Owen?

Because I don't understand what you and Eira were playing at earlier. I'll go for either one if you want to make a case for which one you think is better for me when I get back.

VOTE: Corwin

Yep. I've seen enough.

[Crescent]

Unnatural progression in thoughts. Unnatural vote at the end of said progression.

Still no sense of trying to solve. Outright says he'll sheep either one, but only based on other people's arguments, already weakening his already paper thin vote even further.

Nothing in the past page reads like town thought process.

[Crescent]

This whole Jester thing honestly just feels like a red herring of a discussion topic.

[Crescent]

What's kept me so consistently on the top, anyway?

[Crescent]

In the case of Gera it was more about someone like Goldfish ignoring that I wasn't even the first person to bring up past games of his. I wasn't being sussed for it, but the very origin of the argument was being ignored.

It's just infuriatingly lazy play coming from that slot overall.

[Crescent]

The thing is I feel like it's so openly lazy this game that scum would be reluctant about how obvious it looks. It's why I don't find it scummy. The slot is being so openly useless it makes me think it's town.

[Crescent]

Also the good news for everyone is if for some reason I don't get shot tonight I'm most likely getting my return to work papers on Tuesday so I can both stop going stir crazy and won't have the time to OCD this level.

[Crescent]

This whole Jester thing honestly just feels like a red herring of a discussion topic.

Yes, 100% true, you can't have a jester in a normal game, and Not_Mafia always starts with that post, the jester discussion is pretty much irrelevant.

This isn't the problem though.

The problem is Corwin was making this the lynchpin (This is an actual nonoffensive word that fits the sentence) of his "argument" against Vivax, learning it wasn't a good argument against a new player, and then still voting him anyway. I also feel like this only really escalated after Vivax redoubled his efforts to pursue Corwin.

This led to even more Jester talk, and that's when I decided it was probably about time to put the topic on ice.

[Crescent]

This whole Jester thing honestly just feels like a red herring of a discussion topic.

Yes, 100% true, you can't have a jester in a normal game, and Not_Mafia always starts with that post, the jester discussion is pretty much irrelevant.

This isn't the problem though.

The problem is Corwin was making this the lynchpin (This is an actual nonoffensive word that fits the sentence) of his "argument" against Vivax, learning it wasn't a good argument against a new player, and then still voting him anyway. I also feel like this only really escalated after Vivax redoubled his efforts to pursue Corwin.

This led to even more Jester talk, and that's when I decided it was probably about time to put the topic on ice.

[Crescent]

No, it's worse. It's so much worse.

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

Scummy post.

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey
VOTE: Corwinoid

Corwin does not mention Vivax in any capacity the entire game until after Vivax votes him. Corwin's first post after Vivax votes him is to immediately shade Vivax.

Is there really a chance he's jester?

I have read this half a dozen times now while re-reading and updating notes... and every time it just sticks out like a fucking sore thumb. Why in the world would you think/suggest this?

The word Jester NEVER appears in Corwin's ISO until this post. I immediately called this out at the time, but it's even more glaring in the lens that this was strictly done as his counterargument. This was Corwin trying to find any excuse to vote Vivax for voting him, finding the excuse lacking, and doing it anyway.

Good lord Corwin is scum.

[Crescent]

How in the world did we STILL end up with 8 different people with votes on them. 9 if you count not voting as a separate person.

Guys we gotta consolidate now.

Do we at least got 3 people who are definitely in the running or are we gonna do my Lurker strategy?

The lowest person that isnt our mod is... NotMaf at nine damn posts. Okay. That's a problem. The three way tie of George, Gibus, and Owen are at 18. Literally double that.

Sidenote: Crescent is 100 posts above Eira who's at 92... Double everyone elsa's posts as well. You can fit 21 NotMafs in that.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt but without even hitting 10 posts he's definitely just lurking to not play this game. So if we do elim him I'm not gonna regret it. Let's see what happens tho.

We are voting out Corwin. Corwin is scum. Not probably scum. Corwin is scum.

Everything I've said about Corwin having no town inflection in the last couple of pages is made so much worse by it being directly after Vivax voted him, and counterargument being off one thing Vivax posted 200 posts before that Corwin had zero reaction to at the time.

[Crescent]

Clarification: What I specifically immediately called out was basing his argument over a 200 post old post that I felt was irrelevant and a weak argument to be pursuing.

I didn't notice at the time it was the first time he'd ever mentioned Jester. The way I worded the bottom half of 638 doesn't flow quite right, though the point it makes doesn't change.

[Crescent]

Clarification: What I specifically immediately called out was basing his argument over a 200 post old post that I felt was irrelevant and a weak argument to be pursuing.

I didn't notice at the time it was the first time he'd ever mentioned Jester. The way I worded the bottom half of 638 doesn't flow quite right, though the point it makes doesn't change.

[Crescent]

Ok, I didn't have anywhere NEAR this issue with double-posting in 2272. The hell am I doing differently this time?

[Crescent]

Timeline:

#424 Vivax revotes him

#470 is when he directly mentions Corwin again in a more meta capacity

#477 is when Corwin pops in to directly countersuspect Vivax

#486 Corwin asks me a useless question

#492 I say exactly what vibes I'm getting from Corwin. Corwin ignores this.

#500 Vivax asks him a question

#510 Corwin refuses to answer it

#512 Vivax calls him out on it

#514 Corwin gets defensive

#517 I say Corwin feels like scum who doesn't understand why he's been caught. Corwin again ignores this.

#519 Vivax calls him out again

#525 I verify a specific reason I suspect him. Again this is never addressed.

Both are gone for a bit

#542 Corwin brings the Jester point out of the blue to attack Vivax.

#574, 578, 580 Vivax is unimpressed. I have posts in there too. I'm not impressed either, though I also have some off-topic posts.

#588 doubles down

#590 triples down

#594 admits he could be wrong

#595 votes

#611 tells Elsa "I'll vote whoever you want me to"

Not town. Not town progression. Not at all.

[Crescent]

Timeline:

#424 Vivax revotes him

#470 is when he directly mentions Corwin again in a more meta capacity

#477 is when Corwin pops in to directly countersuspect Vivax

#486 Corwin asks me a useless question

#492 I say exactly what vibes I'm getting from Corwin. Corwin ignores this.

#500 Vivax asks him a question

#510 Corwin refuses to answer it

#512 Vivax calls him out on it

#514 Corwin gets defensive

#517 I say Corwin feels like scum who doesn't understand why he's been caught. Corwin again ignores this.

#519 Vivax calls him out again

#525 I verify a specific reason I suspect him. Again this is never addressed.

Both are gone for a bit

#542 Corwin brings the Jester point out of the blue to attack Vivax.

#574, 578, 580 Vivax is unimpressed. I have posts in there too. I'm not impressed either, though I also have some off-topic posts.

#588 doubles down

#590 triples down

#594 admits he could be wrong

#595 votes

#611 tells Elsa "I'll vote whoever you want me to"

Not town. Not town progression. Not at all.

[Crescent]

Oh and Vivax is a virtual lock for town once Corwin flips scum, if that wasn't obvious enough.