Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Meuh]

Good morning everyone!!! Let’s obliterate scum

VOTE: tictac

[Meuh]

let me give you a list of players who have played in a game with me before:


tictac
Testarossa
marcistar
ChaosOmega
Meuh
GuiltyLion
DkKoba
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Not Known 15
Roden
humaneatingmonkey

When have we ever played together?

[Meuh]

Hi sorry for not being around, my computer had internet issues for a few days and I don't really like posting on mobile so I haven't really caught up yet, will do soon though!

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

VOTE: dkkoba

i can smell the fear in this post

Just in case anybody thought it was a joke, me and Not Known 15 are actually neighbors. I claimed kind of impulsively without them even sending anything at all in our neighbourhood. I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking

them

for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

wait theres more than 1 hood?

i am actually in a hood with dwlee thats why i instant voted them and i claimed traitor to them and their reaction sucked ass


they claimed it was a joke but yeah

theres prob a traitor in the game if dwlee flips scum

This comes off as a townie's approach to the game to me, the immediate conclusion of there being traitor if dwlee!scum is a bit of a reach to me though.
Perhaps Dk always plays aggressive but scum don't tend to play so comfortably aggressively early from what I've seen

Spoiler:

tf did u seriously think it was a joke

i dont even know not known 15 at all thats the most random person for me to choose if it was a joke

dwlee x not known 15 scum team gg ez

this set of posts is kinda weird
marci made a memey post with real connotation in it and is surprised people are interpreting it as just memey? otherwise I don't really mind Marci's posting so far

Spoiler:

I haven’t played here in months wdym I feel “different”, like it could just be the fact I took a break

Slightly +scum, seems particularly defensive. could just be an annoyed townie though I guess

Spoiler:

marci town

This feels +town

(caught up to 45)

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

idk that isnt a very fromis_9 thing to do

Who's fromis_9?

Spoiler:

I feel like my response was clearly a joke cause I even followed it up by saying I was informed you were scum so idk why you're so caught up on this and calling me frozen when it's a Saturday night and I'm hanging with friends makes no sense

Don't really think this post is AI; Dwlee just seems bothered here, and I don't think there's anything manufactured about that emotion? maf and town Dwlee could both think Dk's logic is bad

Spoiler:

VOTE: Guilty lion
Not letting you get past me again

Well hello to you too!

VOTE: Dwlee99

Dwlee, can you link me to any prior town games of yours where you RVS voted someone based on a past game together like this? I think this style of RVS intro vote is slightly +scum, it's an easy/convenient reason to plop down your first vote and I'm also a lil pinged that you didn't really say hi or otherwise engage me directly

Can't say I adore this intro, feels a bit opportunistic
placing a non-random vote on someone being openly scumread by others for a brand new reason without initially engaging with the argument that brought the spotlight on them in the first place?
on the flip side maybe the attention to detail on Dwlee's opener could be more likely to come from analytical town, but overall a bit +scum

Spoiler:

I feel like my response was clearly a joke cause I even followed it up by saying I was informed you were scum so idk why you're so caught up on this and calling me frozen when it's a Saturday night and I'm hanging with friends makes no sense

this also kinda bad

"

so

" caught up on this - how much is koba posting about it in the hood? cause if not a lot, feels like a bit of an exaggeration here

and the hanging with friends bit is some AtE vibes

ehhhh don't really agree with this one; I don't see how Dwlee used AtE here or how Dwlee being pretty clearly annoyed doesn't add up to them maybe slightly exaggerating?

Spoiler:

I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking them for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

I get townvibes from this and would like to know if anyone disagrees

I feel if scum!marci is in a hood with NK15 she wouldn't be likely to claim it without hearing from him at all yet, and this explanation feels genuine

I think this is a fine, though also surface level

Spoiler:

where are you guys getting all these town vibes from there's nothing ai here anything can be fake

blegh I hate this post but idk if that's scum indicative

Spoiler:

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

This seems to implicate 1 traitor and one normal scum.

Do you know something I don't?

I have not seen that combination in any Normal game.... ever.

VOTE: Guilty lion
Not letting you get past me again

Well hello to you too!

VOTE: Dwlee99

Dwlee, can you link me to any prior town games of yours where you RVS voted someone based on a past game together like this? I think this style of RVS intro vote is slightly +scum, it's an easy/convenient reason to plop down your first vote and I'm also a lil pinged that you didn't really say hi or otherwise engage me directly

I feel like my response was clearly a joke cause I even followed it up by saying I was informed you were scum so idk why you're so caught up on this and calling me frozen when it's a Saturday night and I'm hanging with friends makes no sense

this also kinda bad

"

so

" caught up on this - how much is koba posting about it in the hood? cause if not a lot, feels like a bit of an exaggeration here

and the hanging with friends bit is some AtE vibes

This looks constructed, hedgey, and the hanging with friends is just a description, not AtE.

I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking them for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

I get townvibes from this and would like to know if anyone disagrees
A bit hedgey as well, and yes I disagree. It is a bit over-explainey and very much not townvibe material(but scumvibe material).
I feel if scum!marci is in a hood with NK15 she wouldn't be likely to claim it without hearing from him at all yet, and this explanation feels genuine

Not sure if this is whiteknighting or defending a partner, because an early claim of a neighborhood isn't really AI... it is useful info for town that will probably be spilled anyways!

Koba: Please explain how you got there. In your next post, please.
Marci looks scummy. That is a low confidence read, though!
VOTE: Guilty Lion This is not.

Interesting opener, I think the case against GuiltyLion is fair. The emphasis on how confident NK15 is about the read is a bit odd, though? The analysis they do about #57 is the part that bothers me a bit. The assumption of GL being scum coming into it is iffy. Also with the way scum are generally viewed as being present somewhere in neighborhoods, shading GL, someone who's openly said Marci has townvibes could be scum motivated. Dunno exactly how to feel about this one

(up to 62)

[Meuh]

how does my empty townread read towny to you?

i just don't really think scum would be as likely to post empty townreads than town? yknow since mafia doesn't actually read anyone, posting one spontaneously without anything else to it feels more like a townie thing to do. your townread on marci just felt natural and made more sense for town to post
i don't feel too strong on it, but yeah

[Meuh]

VOTE: guiltylion E-1
This game is dead af, let’s at least make something happen soon

what

[Meuh]

Anyone on the GL wagon should just unvote, E-1 shouldn't be happening rn

[Meuh]

^ literally no incentive for town not to immediately unvote

[Meuh]

Good morning everyone!!! Let’s obliterate scum

VOTE: tictac

let me give you a list of players who have played in a game with me before:


tictac
Testarossa
marcistar
ChaosOmega
Meuh
GuiltyLion
DkKoba
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Not Known 15
Roden
humaneatingmonkey

When have we ever played together?

vs

meuhs first post in trustfall

u cant tell me theres no difference

It's the other way around though, I feel? If you wanna take a look at the way I open, Trust Fall is the outlier, not this game. Dunno why you specifically pointed out Trust Fall when you've played with me in several of these games:

My opener in newb 2054

My opener in newb 2058

My opener in newb 2061

My opener in newb 2063 (I was scum for reference)

My opener in newb 2084

Tbf Trustfall is my most recent game so it may be a bit more relevant, but I still don't quite get Marci's point here?

@Dk

I still wanna know when we've played together? I don't recall playing with anyone on this list other than Marci and HEM

[Meuh]

It's the other way around though, I feel? If you wanna take a look at the way I open, Trust Fall is the outlier, not this game. Dunno why you specifically pointed out Trust Fall when you've played with me in several of these games:

My opener in newb 2054

My opener in newb 2058

My opener in newb 2061

My opener in newb 2063 (I was scum for reference)

My opener in newb 2084

Tbf Trustfall is my most recent game so it may be a bit more relevant, but I still don't quite get Marci's point here?

@Dk

I still wanna know when we've played together? I don't recall playing with anyone on this list other than Marci and HEM

isn't this kinda disingenuous when you have a bunch of content immediately after these opener posts? like I ISO'd you in the first two links and already you have way more effort/solving in your first ~5 or so posts than you do here, so marci's point still stands when you compare beyond the single opening posts, you are a proactive engaged town blocky player as town and you haven't been proactive this game

Fair enough, although I don't think that's really the point Marci was making? She made note of only mentioning the very first post, but eh it's barely noteworthy
I think the more interesting game to look at if you wanna analyze my meta is my scum game: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86564

I posted 52 times in the less than 72 hours I was alive, made 2 readslists by post #92. Is being gamesolvey and active typical to my gameplay? Yes, but it's not town indicative; it's just how I play.
I've been around less this game because of the internet issues I already mentioned, followed by some procrastination on catching up on the 400 or so posts I missed.
I'm not doing the detailed catchup thing anymore btw, it's slow and makes me procrastinate when I could be much more helpful actually engaging in discussion

PEdit: ope yep!

[Meuh]

I've played with Meuh quite a bit since we're friends, I often send her game links and ask her to sign up with me!! In all of those games, she's been town and I think she usually just ... has alot more to say than she already has at this point. I feel like shes usually out there very townily towning it up and being sort of like a townblock creator. So I think its weird she hasn't done much yet, i'm not sure if shes scum but I wanna see whats up yknow? !!

this was the point marci was making

you said you "don't mind her posting so far", and agreed with me on marci town vibes tho you said my point was "surface level", has your read on her changed since or do you think she's just town and wrong?

Me saying your post was fine was more so saying your point was valid and I could see town come to your conclusion and less so a statement on Marci's alignment, if that makes any sense? I was more concentrated on you than on Marci when reading those posts since it's right after your intro

Marci scumreads me a lot and I scumread her a lot. I don't think I'm particularly good at reading her; my perspective of her in the one game she was scum vs me wasn't really different than from her town games.
The reason I'm focusing down on her read on me here is because I think regardless of alignment she'd be likely to scumread me here.
Scum!Marci has an easy read on me to bring down for meta reasons and the backing of not being reliable on my alignment in a scenario where I flip
Town!Marci is fairly likely to get bad vibes from me in general
The scrutiny is because I'm trying to see if she's being completely genuine in her points, or if she's manufacturing a read on me. So far I could see town!Marci making the points she's making, so I'm leaning towards town and wrong at the moment
I don't feel strongly about her other content because frankly I'm not sure how to approach reading her when it's been mostly mediocre on my end in past games. It just reads like Marci posts. Town, scum? Idk

[Meuh]

@Dk

Aren't you concerned about the gamestate? I thought that was a valid point.
It's pretty silent, with someone sitting comfortably with 5 (now 6) votes on them without much protest? Or do you think this is realistic for scum!GL here? AFAIK peaceful gamestates tend to be indicative of either:
1. Inactive scum/scum just not caring
2. Scared/resigned scum
3. Scum approval of the direction town's headed

I find the third option to be fairly likely
Don't really get your confidence and comfort here, why shouldn't we be questioning this gamestate? Why shouldn't we be questioning this push?

[Meuh]

I'm still likely to keep you around for the day so you can spew bc I like talkative players

If you want GL to spew, why not yknow, not leave him on E-1?
Seems like a nice action to take to achieve that

[Meuh]

@Dk

Aren't you concerned about the gamestate? I thought that was a valid point.
It's pretty silent, with someone sitting comfortably with 5 (now 6) votes on them without much protest? Or do you think this is realistic for scum!GL here? AFAIK peaceful gamestates tend to be indicative of either:
1. Inactive scum/scum just not caring
2. Scared/resigned scum
3. Scum approval of the direction town's headed

I find the third option to be fairly likely
Don't really get your confidence and comfort here, why shouldn't we be questioning this gamestate? Why shouldn't we be questioning this push?

Roden just came in pretty aggressively, don't you agree?

...24 hours after GL was put on E-2. Doesn't feel very grandiose

[Meuh]

And very soon after e-1

So was did I! I posted like 10 seconds after them.
I can see Roden's perspective and frustrations come from a townie here.
I can see a townie defend GL in such a way, because e-1's bad and gamestate's bad! Not scummy to think so tbh imo
Honestly Dk I don't really get the perspective you're presenting rn

[Meuh]

*So did I

EBWOP

I need some sleep

[Meuh]

sure you can make a theory where it does come from town - but what implies it for you?

give me your thought process.

Of course any post can be made by someone of any alignment, but I feel like the ones Roden made line up with what town!Roden would logically do.
If there's a mostly undisturbed wagon on someone they don't think is scum with half the playerbase participating in it, why wouldn't they call it out and try to disturb it? The thought process behind contesting the wagon seems like one town!Roden would naturally come to.
If Roden is scum with GL, what do they really benefit from it? Why would Roden go against a solidified wagon on their partner? There's a slight chance they can shake things up, but it's unlikely.
If Roden is scum and GL is town, I also don't see why they'd be doing this? Towncred post-flip? It still draws a bunch of attention on them, so overall it doesn't seem like the option they'd choose?
When viewing the game from Roden's POV in different scenarios, to me it's more realistic for town!Roden to do what they have done.

[Meuh]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

also on this, I disagree. The following post:

And very soon after e-1

So was did I! I posted like 10 seconds after them.
I can see Roden's perspective and frustrations come from a townie here.
I can see a townie defend GL in such a way, because e-1's bad and gamestate's bad! Not scummy to think so tbh imo
Honestly Dk I don't really get the perspective you're presenting rn

would be very easy to write as scum who knows both Roden and I are town.

The "I don't get your perspective" is also to me a scummy turn of phrase, like it's engaging with Koba to disagree but with an assumption that Koba is town and not disagreeing so much as to put her foot down on anything substantial.

if your default assumption is that scum would want to get townpoints by defending me, Meuh's noncomittal/passive version is a worse look than Roden's

I also think Gamma looks worse than Chaos of people on my wagon too

The "I don't get your perspective" thing and the general passive-aggressiveness of 537 is because I got a bit frustrated with Dk, for the E-1 stuff and what I believe to be overconfidence on their reads. Frustration also because I think if their read on Roden is genuine, it seems to be born out of that overconfidence combined with conf-bias

This is why I logged off and went to sleep soon after, I'd rather not spend my time being frustrated over a game of mafia

[Meuh]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

VOTE: chaos
@dk feel free to use like arguments if u got something against this
@lion ur thing here boils down to "too scummy to be scum", which is not persuasive.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

[Meuh]

meuh been cool during this l-1 thing.

VOTE: chaos
@dk feel free to use like arguments if u got something against this
@lion ur thing here boils down to "too scummy to be scum", which is not persuasive.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

Why do you agree with tictac?

When have I said this?

[Meuh]

Also where did Marci go I miss her

[Meuh]

Meuh

VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

Why the vote on Chaos, again, because Gamma was E-1?

I voted on Chaos because:
-I realized my vote was still on tictac and that’s not a place where I wanted it
-I feel pretty null about Chaos so I don’t mind voting for them
-I think tictac’s town so I wanted to amplify their thoughts
-The point made about Chaos’s entrance seemed fair to me (even though it also applies to me )
-It puts pressure on a less vocal slot

Gamma is someone I do want to look into some more, although iirc some of their posts earlier on actually seemed townie to me, so I’m not interested in voting for them before looking into them

[Meuh]

I can’t really fault ppl for scumreading me, haven’t gotten into this game like I have with others

[Meuh]

Meuh just feels like scum to me. not all that engaged, surface level reads/analysis, 754 is a bizarre post like she's clearly sheeping tictac, why play the "I didn't

say

I agree with tictac!!" card in response to Koba's question??

754 is just me being snarky
I basically answer what Dk asks like 5 posts later in response to ShadowGirl, I just felt like answering that way to Dk

[Meuh]

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

I think there’s a pretty significant difference between Roden & I’s approaches to the whole defence counter push anti-wagon criticism movement or whatever you wanna call it

My read on GL was like, slight scum lean at first, but the stagnant game state irked me and made me reconsider

Also my push against the GL wagon wasn’t primarily motivated by my read on him, it was mostly because:
-I wanted to fight against him being put on E-1, which I thought and still think was an anti-town move from both Gamma and Dk. I tend to feel pretty strongly about some mechanical play and that’s an instance that I felt strongly about
-I don’t feel strongly about GL (or most people, really)’s alignment, like I said I haven’t gotten into this game that much, but I wanted to contribute. That was one of the best ways to actually help out with the game despite my lack of strong feelings. Poof, I gave people more material to read me off of and I helped motivate some more discussion, overall I’m happy with it
-I especially wanted Dk to shake up their reads instead of being overconfident about GL’s alignment, because I think they were tunneling and confbiasing pretty hard, which isn’t really productive. (and also frustrated me lol) That’s why most of the posts I initially made about the GL wagon are directed at Dk.
They changed up their vote which is cool although their reads haven’t seemed to have gotten better from where their vote is placed now but that’s okay

If you look at the posts I made the evening E-1 was placed, you’ll see that I don’t actually take any stance about GL’s alignment, because I don’t really have one to make. It’s mostly me being critical of the points Dk was making.
523 is the most I discuss my stance about GL’s alignment at that point and it’s vague and made to make Dk reflect, only saying I think it’s “fairly likely” for a scenario where GL’s town to be true

That’s why I felt less and was less committal, I didn’t and still don’t feel that strongly about GL’s alignment. Because of that, my motivation towards pushing against the wagon wasn’t motivated as strongly or in the same way Roden’s was

[Meuh]

Literally every post I made on the evening E-1 happened was in one of 3 categories:
1. Saying E-1’s bad and dumb (481, 482, 486)
2. Talking about Marci’s arguments against me (498, 505, 512)
3. Directly responding to some of Dk’s posts I thought had bad logic or bad points (523, 524, 532, 537, 538)

GL’s alignment was not something I was focused on

[Meuh]

Why do you think that putting gl at e-1 was mechanically bad?

Here are the benefits each alignment gets from it:

Town (if town!GL):
-Discussion is slightly fuelled (can also be done in many less risky ways)

Town (if scum!GL):
-Discussion fuelled
-If GL gets hammered, that’s scum down (but we could always yknow, just do that later; so we aren’t missing out on much by not putting GL on E-1 at the time it happened)

Mafia (if town!GL)
-If the day concludes early, town’s progressed less far in their reads, giving mafia a bit of a headstart
-If a townie’s prone to take the opportunity and hammer GL, mafia can reasonably get that player limmed the following day, poof that’s F8 made with the mafia team intact
-The potential halt to town’s reads from an early flip is amplified by the fact that GL’s one of the most vocal players, mafia would benefit strongly to have him out of the picture
-E-1 existing gives scum an opportunity to try a chaotic play (especially scary considering the setup’s closed)

Mafia (if scum!GL)
-Day could end early
-Scum have wiggle room to try a play
-Bussing potential

Ultimately there’s no major benefits for town to put people on E-1. For scum however, although there’s a good chance they don’t do anything (hammering would be risky), we’re still providing the mafia team for an opportunity to try out a play, or for a townie to hammer and end up helping out scum.
It’s giving ammo to the scum team, even if we don’t think it’s likely they use that ammo

[Meuh]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

I’m sorry that unlike you, I’m not an expert on every player in the game’s playstyle! There’s a total of 9 players in the game who I had never played with or spectated, how should I know? (To be fair some of them were already voting GL, but still) Why would I ever be okay with E-1 happening when there’s so much unknown surrounding it?
This makes 0 sense as a response to my post

[Meuh]

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

Ah of course, presenting my thought process in response to being asked about it so people get a better understanding of my stance on something avoids critical thinking

[Meuh]

Sure, mechanical discussion at this point of the game isn’t massively productive, but the point of it wasn’t to start discussion on mechanics, it was to present my perspective. Plain and simple

[Meuh]

I think the argument is trying to project that on others and take advantage how putting someone on e-1 "looks" scummy. So yea seeya later scumfuck

If that was the point I was making, why would I not be pushing for Gamma or you right now

[Meuh]

God if you’re scum you’re playing well, if you’re town you really need to work on avoiding conf-bias

[Meuh]

Just a bunch of Gamma posts

Spoiler:

lolwut
I actually think you're town here koba???

I just get a vibe that's similar to his play in the white flag game where he was scum (the one cyrus62 modded)
I'll say your specific thought process does feel distinctly towny, HEM

outside the traitor claim thing, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is dwlee justifying their rvs vote, it feels overwrought, so even outside the hood deal I have dwlee as leanscum

Do you think scum!Dwlee panics around town!Koba like that though? It would be a stark contrast to how SCP went.

maybe
we were all scum in a normal at one point

I'm in a bit of a weird mood rn, I'll explain later
nk15 feels actually like he's trying to contribute, scum!nk15 I would expect to feel less like that
marci I think is just vibing town rn
I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

el em ay oh
This is not a town response.

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

I made no posts between these two. Koba just made a joke about not listening to other people at all when I asked them to consider they could be wrong :^)

Do you mind giving me your current reads of the players (town/scum/null)?

@tictac: Do you mind giving me your thoughts on my other post to you, re: Meuh?

HEM/Gamma scum

NK/Marci/Koba one scum

your reads are trash

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

Like I myself binned GL for now and was only pressuring them bc of the reasons you stated there, but I have nowhere seen anything that makes me feel I should townread them here.

this is a bit of a mood
it's rlly great when two read sources give v contrary ideas of a person's alignment. gamestate suggests GL is town but on vibes he's scummy

that tracks
you just feel a bit like you were in the white flag game (I mentioned this earlier but I wanna mention it to you directly, see your input)

okay that actually makes a ton of sense to why I thought this was similar

These all lean towards town to me to varying extents, the E-1 was anti-town but not something I can’t imagine town doing
Gamma’s read progression actually feels realistic and some of the confidence in her posts I think comes from townies more often; “your reads are trash” and stuff like that

[Meuh]

So yeah I actually lean town on Gamma a bit

[Meuh]

God if you’re scum you’re playing well, if you’re town you really need to work on avoiding conf-bias

do you think koba is scum here?

I honestly don’t really know
A lot of the things that have stuck out to me about Koba’s gameplay comes down more to their approach to the game and their play style, but I haven’t really taken a step back to think “okay, but are these things scummy or not?”
They don’t particularly come off as disingenuous and would be the kind of player I’d be fine with just assuming is town for D1 and then scrutinizing later most of the time. Usually I do this with a town leaderesque player who seems solvey early on. (I think I also mentioned this in Trust Fall)
Thing is, I think they have some wrong takes and have made bad decisions and that makes that assumption worse to make and the slot more nebulous.
Either way I don’t really see the benefit of limming Dk until later in the game, I don’t see how it’s particularly beneficial unless there’s a strong reason to believe they’re scum, which there isn’t.

[Meuh]

why do you think chaosomega is scum? that's where your vote is right now.

Meuh

VOTE: chaos
Better spot for my vote than still randomly on tictac

Why the vote on Chaos, again, because Gamma was E-1?

I voted on Chaos because:
-I realized my vote was still on tictac and that’s not a place where I wanted it
-I feel pretty null about Chaos so I don’t mind voting for them
-I think tictac’s town so I wanted to amplify their thoughts
-The point made about Chaos’s entrance seemed fair to me (even though it also applies to me )
-It puts pressure on a less vocal slot

Gamma is someone I do want to look into some more, although iirc some of their posts earlier on actually seemed townie to me, so I’m not interested in voting for them before looking into them

Also just POE, there’s some slots who to me look slightly more likely to be town than Chaos which pushes them to the bottom of my reads
I don’t really outright scumread anyone on their own merit, most players seem neut or slight town so POE helps
HEM, Dwlee and NK15 are definitely slots I should reread to get a better grasp on though, don’t have a good read on them. Considering the vibe I get from the other players I wouldn’t be surprised to find scum there

[Meuh]

Meuh, please react to 873.

I don’t really know what point you’re trying to make in that post

[Meuh]

I treat everyone as their own person and not a monolith

[Meuh]

yes meuh showed me gamma's posts in isolation, and i buy meuh's read.

Really? Cause I really just quoted some posts with a bit of justification, to me those posts made me lean Gamma town but was that enough to warrant a change for you?

[Meuh]

[3] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion, DkKoba

this is your wagon. are these all town?

Would not surprise me but wouldn’t not surprise me
I think overall that pool has lower than rand scum odds, so I’m not particularly worried about them
I can see it both ways
I think if we’re looking for scum who are/are going to be pushing on me, some players have me neut/lean scum sorted or haven’t said much about my alignment, and I think there could be scum there.
They can just leave the door open if the push on me does gain momentum
Chaos, NK15, ShadowGirl, Dwlee, Roden and tictac all fit the bill to varying extents, although note I don’t necessarily scumread them, I just think the general position they’re in is a bit scummy, 2 scum in that group wouldn’t surprise me
Keeping that door open on a townie with 3 votes just looks bad to me

[Meuh]

NK15/HEM partner equity

Thoughts?

[Meuh]

I don't think we've interacted much NK15. How's the game for you so far?

could you be town here, nk15? i'm asking because i like you, we share a lot of sentiments. but i dont trust you because... we share a lot of sentiments (it feels as if you stand alone in reaffirming my view of the game). if you're town here, we can hold hands and be allies.

update: still not reading the thread.

what do you think about Meuh's read on Roden, NK15? When I read it, it does make sense that it's more probable that Roden is town here for defending GL.

Like how are we feeling about this?

[Meuh]

Something something preflip associations bad

[Meuh]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

[Meuh]

I don't like that last post.

i get what you mean

but i feel like i already identified who i think is town, and im p confident in this block
those outside of these brackets, i think i dont want to leave d1.

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

yes meuh showed me gamma's posts in isolation, and i buy meuh's read.

What makes you confident that Meuh is town (and will wholly agree with their take) considering you thought they were sus a couple pages ago for the same reason you think Roden is? What makes Meuh's reasoning for being against the GL wagon different than Roden's to give you such opposite reads on them?

Meuh had a different angle than Roden din. Meuh's was purely gamestate — Roden believes GL to be obvtown.

I also just townread Meuh's tone and I don't detect deception in her posts.

I don’t buy any of this as natural HEM gameplay
It’s very careful, very friendly and the read progression feels disingenous
Don’t like it

[Meuh]

I don’t buy any of this as natural HEM gameplay
It’s very careful, very friendly and the read progression feels disingenous

i dont like what this implies about my personality
im taking this personally

Nonono you’re very nice and never careless HEM

[Meuh]

i do not think you understand tone or are partners with meuh so im just not going to bother here.

I happen to not be scum at all so have fun

[Meuh]

I’m fine with a NK15 lim here if that’s what people want
We should probably sort out today’s lim soonish

[Meuh]

I think if we’re looking for scum who are/are going to be pushing on me, some players have me neut/lean scum sorted or haven’t said much about my alignment, and I think there could be scum there.
They can just leave the door open if the push on me does gain momentum
Chaos, NK15, ShadowGirl, Dwlee, Roden and tictac all fit the bill to varying extents, although note I don’t necessarily scumread them, I just think the general position they’re in is a bit scummy, 2 scum in that group wouldn’t surprise me

this also feels like scum analysis

you have 5 players here you are accusing of the same behavior and yet trying to fear monger about some combination of them being scum, when the majority would be town by definition

I would expect a townie to be generally more interested in trying to sort/discern between those five.

My point was more so that scum existing outside of my wagon is realistic so I’m not too concerned on the 3 currently present onjt

[Meuh]

PEDIT: *on it

[Meuh]

What do you guys think would be scum!me’s justification to voting for HEM?

[Meuh]

shadowgirl equity with meuh just skyrocketed

i do not think you understand tone or are partners with meuh so im just not going to bother here.

Also what happened here?

[Meuh]

I’m fine with a NK15 lim here if that’s what people want
We should probably sort out today’s lim soonish

do it

Oki
VOTE: NK15

[Meuh]

PEDIT: *on it

EBWOP: *EBWOP not PEDIT

[Meuh]

What do you guys think would be scum!me’s justification to voting for HEM?

That Chaos is your scumbuddy and you don't want them getting eliminated either D1, and it's easier to pivot to HEM then try and start a whole wagon... and said person was your top scumread is now the person you will sheep?? Or are you of the opinion that both HEM and NK15 are still scumbuddies, even though HEM is trying to wagon them?

I just don’t think it’s worthwhile to avoid a wagon because someone you scumread is on it. The read could be wrong or they could be bussing. NK15 being limmed is still one of my preferred options here
Also I don’t think they’re scum buddies, I don’t have a solve of the game. How proactively HEM’s pushed NK15 does distance them a bit, although the way they’ve interacted earlier in the game still irks me
Either way, while considering partner equity early on is like, fine; I’m not looking to find a team right now, just scummy individuals. I don’t think hunting for partners is the best way to go about things

[Meuh]

VOTE: HEM

Lesgo

[Meuh]

what if we just no lim and if theres a vig have them holster bc n1 vig shots are terribad anyways

Nolim sounds really bad

[Meuh]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

I’m fine with a NK15 lim here if that’s what people want
We should probably sort out today’s lim soonish

do it

Oki
VOTE: NK15

VOTE: HEM

Lesgo

That's quite some flipflopping back and forth - from voting HEM to sheeping them to voting them again.

Will you consider Chaos as a potential D1 elimination?

HEM/NK15 are my top 2 lims for today, I’m fine with either
I’d be okay with a Chaos lim but I don’t see why it’d be better than NK15 or HEM so I have no intent on placing my vote there rn

[Meuh]

yay

NK15, this wagon will reach E-1 so just claim now i guess.

Wtf is this post

[Meuh]

so yeah im obviously abrasive. it's a playstyle.

why is it scum?

Because it’s paired with out of place non-abrasive posting that I think you’re doing to appeal to others, which is not what I think you do from a meta standpoint but even off meta, just looking at this game, some posts feel terribly out of place

can you help me read tictac better? i have townvibes, but i haven't seen anything town-indicative. but you seem to believe he's town enough to sheep his read.

how does everyone feel about {Roden, ShadowGirl, ChaosOmega}

i have no read on shadowgirl nor chaosomega and would rather vote roden.

i can also be persuaded on roden's alignment.

I don't like that last post.

i get what you mean

but i feel like i already identified who i think is town, and im p confident in this block
those outside of these brackets, i think i dont want to leave d1.

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

yes meuh showed me gamma's posts in isolation, and i buy meuh's read.

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

How much did I get right, Meuh?

None of it

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

Because it’s paired with out of place non-abrasive posting that I think you’re doing to appeal to others, which is not what I think you do from a meta standpoint but even off meta, just looking at this game, some posts feel terribly out of place

Last game, you haven't seen me appeal to chavela, appeal to Ydrasse, and appeal to my townreads just so my top targets don't leave the game?

You're full of shit Meuh!

Also changed my reads in the game from scumreading Enchant to leaving with them in the game. also changed my tone around Norwee immediately after Kuriyama calls them out.

is this the meta-based angle you've been feeding NK15? tell him he's full of shit too!

it's obvious that this metaread isn't super-organic and coming from town because it's basically wrong

. the only explanation is you guys discussed this amongst yourselves in the scum thread when talking about who to wagon so that you guys won't lose a member in D1.

This just reads like scum mad that they're being scumread for reasons they view as wrong or incomplete

Both from experience and from watching others play, there's nothing that pisses off a mafia member more than being caught for reasons they don't think are justified

Like I think HEM thinking my read is dumb is legitimate but I don't think the conclusions he draws from it are. The immediate conclusion of me being scum drawn from him thinking my logic is bad is not a conclusion I think is natural

As for the point being made, maybe I should've scrutinized your Trust Fall game a bit more (all I remember from it is: you begging to be trusted, you getting in an argument with chav, and then just leaving the game). Either way I think within the scope of this game exclusively, you've had content worth scumreading.

[Meuh]

guys dw just vote for meuh

Why do you scumread me? Is this still an extension of your metaread? Or have other things piled onto it?

[Meuh]

so it's Meuh, ChaosOmega, NK15/tictac right?

i was out of your range before this read.

did i make your team nervous?

it's obvious that this metaread isn't super-organic and coming from town because it's basically wrong. the only explanation is you guys discussed this amongst yourselves in the scum thread when talking about who to wagon so that you guys won't lose a member in D1.

I'll answer the other posts in a bit because I'm at work and don't have a whole lot of time, but this post sticks out to me really badly. I made this exact argument against Gamma because he made the same meta read on me last time I was town and was proven wrong, yet he's doing it again and has apparently learned nothing.

Why is Gamma's bad meta a non-factor for you, but Meuh's supposed bad meta means she has to be scum here?

who said it isnt buddy

Gamma has pings all over now

but it's not today's problem

Who is/are my supposed partner(s), HEM? Do you think it's within the pool you posted that supposedly made the team quiver in their boots or is it Gamma? Or is everyone my partner other than you? Is there an 11 person mafia chat all terrified of you?
1119 to 1126 just reads like a conspiracy theory HEM made up on the spot
Do you believe the things you posted there or did you just want to stoke paranoia?

[Meuh]

has the game really revolved around dwlee this whole time or like what

whys meuhs catchup like that

Ellaborate?

i cant rn im going to work
but like look at her catchup posts, theres alot of "dwlee" in there

Can you share what you were thinking now? and if that had an impact on your reads?

[Meuh]

Hey, koba...
please crawl out of HEM's pocket.
VOTE: HEM
Just did a bit of reading through HEM's ISO.
One thing I now see that they pocketed

me

, and that makes me angry.
Looking at their ISO, it looks to me that they have an agenda, are looking for an execution and changing their reads to convenient scrapegoats and going with the flow. It looks like someone who tries to look like scumhunting to me. But it does not look to me they actually want to scumhunt, but rather find town to pocket, and town who can be limmed.

Roden, NK15 — My elim is not gonna happen. Choose between Meuh, Omega. Roden, you can also choose NK15.

Do you all still think that HEM is town?
That monkey is even giving me "advice" despite scumreading me!
Stop mislimming lhf devoid of associatives and lim scum.
VOTE: HEM

NK15 really revolutionized the meta by double voting

[Meuh]

@tictac @chaos @dwlee
Pretty please jump on a wagon!

[Meuh]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

Eew

this seems to be the sole reason HEM flipped? Pretty meh logic
Also, his tone is rancid af

That and him thinking my meta read was bad I think
(Which as others have pointed out, doesn't make me scum)
Either way his read progression is unnatural

[Meuh]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

Eew

this seems to be the sole reason HEM flipped? Pretty meh logic
Also, his tone is rancid af

That and him thinking my meta read was bad I think
(Which as others have pointed out, doesn't make me scum)
Either way his read progression is unnatural

Oh wait that happened after the vote, nvm

[Meuh]

oh right should i claim now?

[Meuh]

Well I'm a VT
MS will never give me a power role

[Meuh]

Someone vote HEM

[Meuh]

who cares abt claims

I do care about claims at E-1. Mostly claims like "Activated IC" "Mason" or "Vigilante".

What's IC?

[Meuh]

who cares abt claims

I do care about claims at E-1. Mostly claims like "Activated IC" "Mason" or "Vigilante".

What's IC?

oh innocent child

[Meuh]

who cares abt claims

(raises hand in boomer)
I can see there's not one single mechplay thing we're gonna agree on lol

[Meuh]

poor shadowgirl getting bullied relentlessly

[Meuh]

NK15 you need an anime girl pfp, it'd look great on you

[Meuh]

at this point im kinda expecting for scum to bus actually

makes me sweat

Sadly I have no scummates to bus me just my lonely vt self

[Meuh]

FLIP MEUH THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME.

[Meuh]

Never been mislimed here before, it’s exciting

[Meuh]

if you self-hammer, you get style points

I’ll do it if it comes down to it but I don’t want to rn

[Meuh]

Sadly I have no scummates to bus me just my lonely vt self

If you would have just stayed on your scumbuddy Chaos' wagon, then maybe it would be them instead of you today

You’re making me question if executioner is a normal role with this Chaos read

[Meuh]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

iirc some of ShadowGirl’s earlier posting had negative partner equity with HEM but I’d have to dig for it

[Meuh]

i also countered it

gamma just bus already

I’m a townie stop it

[Meuh]

vote Meuh and flip her. see for yourself if you're right.

Why not flip you since she actually scumreads you lol
and if I get flipped he’s probably just gonna push for your lim tomorrow

[Meuh]

I’m a townie stop it

show us

Click on “display posts by user”, scroll to “Meuh”, select the option, then press “Go”. Read what you find on that page.

[Meuh]

that's fine im okay with that. we get two flips for d2. i just hate the suspense.

Do you think a theoretical F8 with us two flipped, all scum still in the game is good for town?
Or are you confident enough in this read to not mind that idea?

[Meuh]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

Did you already forget when HEM nominated me for one of two people he wanted to wagon?

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

Scum cast doubt on their partners without acting on it all the time, I don’t think that proves much

[Meuh]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

Did you already forget when HEM nominated me for one of two people he wanted to wagon?

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

Scum cast doubt on their partners without acting on it all the time, I don’t think that proves much

Like he put you in a pool of 3 potential lims, as the slot within those 3 he seems to have the least interest in
That doesn’t make you 2 scum but I don’t think it’s atypical partner behaviour either

[Meuh]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

Did you already forget when HEM nominated me for one of two people he wanted to wagon?

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

Scum cast doubt on their partners without acting on it all the time, I don’t think that proves much

iirc some of ShadowGirl’s earlier posting had negative partner equity with HEM but I’d have to dig for it

And here I was just about to say you were being so nice and I was sorry to vote you out as scum

I do recall you guys having negative partner equity but that most definitely was not what made me think that

[Meuh]

The temptation to self-hammer and surprise everyone

[Meuh]

HEM/Dk/GL should be looked into tomorrow
At this point I think there’s a very good chance scum’s somewhere there, I’d be shocked if scum doesn’t exist within the loudest voices in the game considering the way my wagon’s going

[Meuh]

ChaosOmega already's on the wagon.

you want it. i'm cool with it.

I think we can recruit Roden, but that's it.

Everyone else townreads Gamma according to their ISO.

This isn't a push to make less than 24 hours.

I’ll jump on it if it happens
I do lean towards Gamma being town but I know I’m a townie so I don’t see why my lim would be better than someone who could flip scum
I’d prefer Chaos though, dunno if that could happen

[Meuh]

yeah but i dont wanna be mean to meuh

It’s ok it’s ok dw

[Meuh]

I’ll jump on it if it happens

but you're already on my wagon?

In what scenario do you get limmed though? You’re at E-3 and Chaos is non-existent plus the people on my wagon seem completely disinterested in limming you. (and they have no mechanical incentive to hop off of it since you can vote for me and I’m going to self-hammer if needed) The only vote I see potentially going on you rn is tictac’s
So I’m willing to join a different wagon since I’m currently lined up to be the lim here, and me not dying is preferable since I’m an angelic VT

[Meuh]

something deep and emotional inside me wants Meuh to be town and to survive

that's a valid read into the game

So true

Also RIP Gamma

[Meuh]

VOTE: Enchant
Why not?

[Meuh]

Hey Meuh, you're potentially about to leave the game here. Will you have a conversation with me as if I'm town, you're town, and let's solve the game together?

I can do that in 3 or so hours, a bit busy atm

[Meuh]

GG everyone!

[Meuh]

and thanks for modding Norwee!

Kinda glad I got limmed early lol, my reads would’ve been garbage and I think I had some significant partner equity with Dwlee so I probably would’ve been limmed sooner or later

[Meuh]

and thanks for modding Norwee!

Kinda glad I got limmed early lol, my reads would’ve been garbage and I think I had some significant partner equity with Dwlee so I probably would’ve been limmed sooner or later

Sorry for voting you out Meuh. I was wrong for the right reasons(?). I was sure of Chaos as scum and I had HEM as locktown, so you the D1 compromise vote for me... considering DkKoba was pushing you so hard if you flipped town I would have pretty sure of them as scum (but the D2 guilty scrambled my thoughts on them).
But I honoured your death with an avi. <3

Nonono dw! Limming me was very reasonable, and you had some of the best reads this game so that doesn’t mean much in the greater scheme of things
Scum!me fit well with the rest of your reads so it makes a whole lot of sense
Love the avi, thank you <3
and welcome back! You played really well for your first game in a long time, I’m impressed

[Meuh]

and thanks for modding Norwee!

Kinda glad I got limmed early lol, my reads would’ve been garbage and I think I had some significant partner equity with Dwlee so I probably would’ve been limmed sooner or later

Sorry for voting you out Meuh. I was wrong for the right reasons(?). I was sure of Chaos as scum and I had HEM as locktown, so you the D1 compromise vote for me... considering DkKoba was pushing you so hard if you flipped town I would have pretty sure of them as scum (but the D2 guilty scrambled my thoughts on them).
But I honoured your death with an avi. <3

Nonono dw! Limming me was very reasonable, and you had some of the best reads this game so that doesn’t mean much in the greater scheme of things
Scum!me fit well with the rest of your reads so it makes a whole lot of sense
Love the avi, thank you <3
and welcome back! You played really well for your first game in a long time, I’m impressed

Sorry we didn’t get to play together! You seem nice.

You do too! Hope we get to play together sometime