Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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That's super bad reasoning.In post 2159, Rels wrote:
As said before it is not a defense. Killing Kop was an objectivally bad move for everyone. So Kop was not killed because that would make the game easier to win for the last scum. So it has to be another reason for Kop's kill.In post 2156, outoforder wrote:ohhhhh.. i am sorry i didn't know what conventional means.
rofl so you are arguing the opposite of what you should?
Reason me you fuckface. How do i win if i shoot Kop?
I think that reason is making people re evaluate because of a weird kill. If that's true, then the most likely dude to do that shot is someone in a bad spot. You are in the worst spot in the game => the kill points at you.
Where did the "Nobody else makes this kill." go?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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And you are a retarded mafia player if you cannot see it. Literally Rels. Literally....In post 2160, Rels wrote:
We spent 3 pages talking about it. The answer has already been written. I don't see how you can defend that YOU are town because of the Kop kill. It is the very definition of a WIFOM kill.In post 2158, outoforder wrote:I am going to stay fucking awake after you tell me this because i wont let this go, as i said you awoken the beast. And i am mad, because you're an idiot rn, or mafia. And i wanna know which one. So FUCKING please, elaborate!-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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ok, what does that conclude to?In post 2167, Rels wrote:
75.In post 2165, outoforder wrote:Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:
How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.
like good play or bad play or what?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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Then you need to lynch me. I cant say anything to that except for i will hammer myself just you all can feel bad because i am getting fucking annoyed at Rels' shit here......In post 2166, BlackVoid wrote:@outoforder - you are arguing that Fitz would leave me alive simply because I was townreading him. But over the course of the game, I've changed my mind several times and re-assessed reads when necessary. For instance, pushing Aubrey, backing off and pushing Hawk. More importantly, I said at the end of D1 that Fitz and Rels were Hawk's partners but lynched Hap D2. I don't think my reads staying static is something the scum can rely on. I was left alive over Kop and I think there's a deeper strategic reason than just what my reads were at the end of D2. That reason being what Rels and I have pointed out: a weird kill to shake up everyone's reads. I very much doubt Fitz thought "BV townread me at the end of D2 so I'll leave him alive and kill Kop the mislynch bait."-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?In post 2169, Rels wrote:
100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marvIn post 2168, outoforder wrote:
ok, what does that conclude to?In post 2167, Rels wrote:
75.In post 2165, outoforder wrote:Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:
How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.
like good play or bad play or what?
How?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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And why am i scum?In post 2173, Rels wrote:
Well as said above you didn't make a terrible play if you're scum. With 2 mislynches left and lots of players scumreading you you made the WIFOM play.In post 2172, outoforder wrote:
so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?In post 2169, Rels wrote:
100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marvIn post 2168, outoforder wrote:
ok, what does that conclude to?In post 2167, Rels wrote:
75.In post 2165, outoforder wrote:Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:
How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.
like good play or bad play or what?
How?-
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outoforder
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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BV do you realize the game wont progress anywhere until you have lynched both me and fitz? There is no amount of convincing that will get you anywhere else. So you can just save 4 weeks of posts where people repeat the same thing over and over again.
I dont feel like i have anything to say in this game anymore. Ive seen enough. I am never going go change my mind here.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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Even if i had scumread Hapa i would have STILL voted fitz 100% of the time on D2. Thats a fact.
Because he was suspected by basically everyone and noone really wanted to push anyone else until you, but you were supertown anyways. Basically mafia didnt care about him being lynched. Thats bad mafia play. And as i said i have problems with scrub scumteams.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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I dont remember calling you scum. Can you show me where that happened?In post 2219, BlackVoid wrote:I recall you calling me scum D1 when I apparently couldn't understand your Fitz case D1. How are you now saying I was super-town?
I can elaborate on the doom read when i get home. I would need quoting and with phone thats a no-go. So in 2hrs.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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@ Tenshii :In post 2114, outoforder wrote:like i cant discuss anything with you when you do this.
i hope you're town and we lose.
UNVOTE: Rels
VOTE: havingfitz-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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BV - regarding the dommfeathers read:
From post 50 to [quote="In post 64 it is quite clear to me he is either town who ACTUALLY wants to figure out what people's alignments are, or is either a good scum player since you'd have to have a very good understanding of the game to ask that specific questions and look like you're trying to figure out people's alignments. A bit later on i looked at his scum game and yeah, there is notable difference in his posting in that game in comparison to what it is here. Idk in the scum game of his it looks like he is... umm.. just idk what he is doing, i can't find any common thread in his posting in that game. In this game it's different, he picks a person he thinks is supicious -> questions -> reads what they write -> makes a conclusion, and it all adds up. In his scum game he picks a person who he wants to lynch -> asks something random and then wants to lynch again when the person is afk in the first place.
I had some doubts about him at the end of D1 since for the latter part of the day i couldn't remember anything he had posted (which is something that usually makes people scum - especially when the player's posting has been very town indicative earlier). During the night i went to read Hawk's filter again and i find it very very unlikely Hawk enters the game with a big case on his scumbuddy. That's also a strong indicator of doom being town, because if you - as mafia - call your scumbuddy mafia (with actual reasons like Hawk did), your reasoning must be good. Then you face a problem where good players figure your scumbuddy out. If you use bad reasoning (see - an example of this is Fitz - Hapa scumreads on both ways) you face a possibility of getting lynched for it. So yeah, it's extremely unlike that Hawk starts the game like that ESPECIALLY when replacing in to the game. Also after rereading doom's filter i understood the reason for why i got that feeling can be him having some problems irl as he replaced out.
Futhermore, as hapa has flipped there is this:
Why do you ever write this as mafia? Someone jsut let go of their scumread on your scumbuddy and you just what???? Give them more ammo?@Aubrey: Might not hapahauli have changed his behavior purposely after seeing it was going to get him nowhere as scum?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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Which interaction? You apparently haven't read the thread because i asked you some questions you didn't answer or note in any way but you are somehow aware of some interaction.In post 2253, momo wrote:So Ife we are not lynching havingfitz, do we want to go ooo. Ooo is most likely scum after this interaction. If not, well we get fitz tomorrow.
So elaborate:
- Who you would have shot if you were mafia?
- Why did mafia shoot Kop?
- What interaction you are talking about
You must understand that making plain comments about something that has happened in the game does not equal playing mafia. So please, explain what interaction you are talking about and what specifically doesn't make sense to you.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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I don't understand the question.In post 2261, havingfitz wrote:What's your excuse for not knowing what you are doing?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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In post 2205, BlackVoid wrote:@Fitz, okay I'll look over the games. Another question you might have missed: when I unvoted Aubrey D1 and voted Hawk, why did you switch to your weak townread Kop instead of going back to your scumread Hap? Hap had more votes at the time too.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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In post 2231, Rels wrote:
meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehIn post 2214, outoforder wrote:I am gonna probably quit mafia again if i get lynched this game. When logic doesnt dictate a game of logical dedution its not a game for me anymore. Games were much better 3yrs ago. Idk whats with these new ppl, surely not logic...In post 2232, Rels wrote:mehBooo.. I've literally done the same thing before as mafia. The thing that doesn't change here is i am not lying like i wasn't back then. The difference is i am not mafia in this game. So if that's a reason to change your read on me your reasoning is terrible.
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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I don't care. It's not about if you scumread me or not. It's about my read on you because rn you aren't giving much anything and i want to hear how your thought process went.In post 2273, momo wrote:I went back on the third point didn't I???-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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In post 1207, havingfitz wrote:In post 1176, outoforder wrote:I seriously believe we should murder fitz, or possibly Kop. Maybe hawk is the third scum but idk. I am not too confident on that.
Can you guys please go read fitz' filter and tell me how any of his reasoning for scumreads ever makes anyone mafia?You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.
OoO wagon would work as well.In post 1343, havingfitz wrote:
Voting me and having a foul mouth aren't automaticreasons for suspicion.In post 1339, Aubrey wrote:You suspect them cause they are voting you and have a cold foul mouth at times?
I'm not presenting a case on OoO.I'm complaining about the fact he's ignored my questions...made no case on me I can see and is discrediting other players.
Which when laid out like that is stuff I find suspect in varying degrees. Zzzzzz
Out...In post 1735, havingfitz wrote:I haven't had a chance to present my OoO suspicions due to lack of time but I started on this early this morning and I want to post what I have while I have the chance.I will present my OoO stuff NLT tomorrow.
Soooo..In post 1794, havingfitz wrote:The failure (IMO) to answer my questions...the failure (IMO) to provide a case on me when he feels I deserve his vote...and the ad-homs towards and disparaging of others are some reasons I suspect OoOand would like to see him lynched. And for D1 suspicions they are were than suitable reasons for me to be good with an OoO lynch.
- Make a case
- Say you haven't made a case
- Make the same case again
He is either:
1) Bullshitting
2) Forgot why he scumread me
As for 1) it always makes him mafia. As for 2) i have seen the same thing happen once before. Here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/4 ... ge=89#1765
The difference is that there were actually smart fucking players who can actually tell what makes people mafia and the cop lynched this poor godfather despite having a green check on him based on this case. Town people don't forget why they scumread people they find scummy. NEVER! Because that's what the game is about, and nothing else. Town people also don't make a case, then say it's not a case and then make the same case again.
I also find it impossible Fitz can't make a connection between "ad-homs towards and disparaging of others" and "being a dick". He makes very simple things very hard for no fucking reason since for anyone with any brain at all it's completely clear what i am referring to since it's the same thing. Just because i use different words it doesn't make it any different. I have explained it to him, Aubrey did explain it to him, maybe like 10 other people should do it so it starts ringing any bells? No, i think he's just being agonising because he is mafia.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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I am voting for you and Tenshii just missed my vote.In post 2285, havingfitz wrote: You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when you can even keep your own vote status straight.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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I am not giving you shit. I am saying it's just as likely that you missed that as town as it is that you didn't actually miss that as mafia.In post 2285, havingfitz wrote: You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when you can even keep your own vote status straight.
= that is something that doesn't make you town
Why are you trying to make things look like something they aren't? If i had thought that is something that makes you mafia i would have called you mafia for it.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
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lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.In post 2295, BlackVoid wrote:I'm just really paranoid if there's one scum outside of Fitz/outoforder that they'll make lylo. Neither Fitz nor outoforder are looking past the other and outside of that, me and Rels are the only ones trying to gamesolve. I'd really love it if everyone gets more active. Creature basically ignored me when I asked for help figuring out the game.
@Cass - if you are town, you weren't bad this game. It just so happened that I emphatically derailed your preferred scumlynch and lynched his buddy whom you were townreading so I can understand why you were annoyed overall. But I want a perfect win here and I'm sure you do too. What'll help is everyone re-reading the game from start to end and posting thoughts and trying to figure it out. I'm sure you can do it. Please get back in the game.
I'm heading to work now but I'll re-read the game in its entirety once I'm back tonight.
momo is not mafia. Look at his answers to me. Can you see what i can see? There is a reason momo as mafia says something else to "who would have killed Kop as mafia" than "i don't know".
+ the second sentence is a perfect reason why i am not mafia. That's also why i get very frustrated when 2 people who know/agree that my scumplay is not bad tyr to tell i am mafia when i would have played terribly in this game -> i literally endgamed myself if i shot Kop, that's a fucking fact. Somehow Rels is butthurt for i don't even know what and you can't see the easy explanation.
But whatever, i am going to be right and that's enough for me.-
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I am still going to say that whoever of BV/Rels/Creature is alive at lylo should be auto-lynched because they are good enough to solve the game and they will have (after D2) 4 weeks to solve this game with at least 2 of them being alive. If they cannot do that and end up on retarded reads like this, they should be lynched. Always. Even if Fitz is alive at lylo i would lynch onto whoever of those three is alive because they deserve to lose the game whatever alignment they are at that point.-
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In post 1789, Kop wrote:
I cannot disagree with any of this. Bussing in this format is basically good as suicide to lose the game. Not even bussing on day one.In post 1732, outoforder wrote:I just offered myself being lynched over a townie so Rels can what??? "get towncredit"? (when me - Rels interaction caused the whole thing in the first place). I am sorry, smart mafia teams do not do that. Especially when it would leave 1 mafia alive which has a chance of instantly losing the game if you shoot the wrong person.. They just simply agree to lynch the townie.
I don't think OoO is scum in this scenario as I suspect Rels more.In post 1791, Kop wrote:I suspected rels of that, and still do. That's why my vote is/was on him.
I mean here is why momo doesn't say he "doesn't know" why mafia shot Kop if he is mafia. Mafia always shoots people for a reason. If momo is mafia and shot Kop there are three reasons for him:In post 1792, Kop wrote:
Here.In post 887, Kop wrote:I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.
It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.
Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.
With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.
Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.
- Kop hammered scum (which isn't really a good reason to shoot him since you already explained why that doesn't make Kop town - and momo has been reading the thread since he can at least realize you're the driving force behind this town)
- momo wants to use that to push a lynch on Fitz
- momo wants to do that to push a lynch on Rels
Both of those people were who Kop suspected before voting for Hapa. Now when Kop shouldn't be townread for his vote, the only reasons for momo to kill Kop is to try push a lynch on Fitz/Rels. It could be possible that he was waiting for someone to bring that up as a reason to NK Kop (fitz/rels being mafia) but noone has expressed anything regarding that and i asked him a straight up question (well i kinda painted it as a innocent "hey just tell me what you think" kind of a question). I believe momo's reasoning for shooting Kop (in case he is mafia) doesn't go together with his actions on D3.-
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Regardless of my affiliation you are really not.In post 2301, Rels wrote:
fuck youIn post 2296, outoforder wrote: lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.
If you are sure i am scum you shouldn't, but it doesn't change the fact you aren't.-
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why are you keeping a vote spreadsheet when apparently it has no affection to your reads?In post 2300, havingfitz wrote:
Nice overreacting. When I thought I'd been hammered it was taking into account the fact you were telling the mod (erroneously) that you were voting me.In post 2294, outoforder wrote:WAiiiiit. You knew i was not voting for you but you somehow "thought" L-4 + 2 votes = lynched?!?!?
I didn't check until later when I was updating my vote spreadsheet. After Rels pointed out I wasn't hammered.
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It's not though. I did the same thing earlier.In post 2303, momo wrote:This ^ vote is scummy as sh*t. If you are town, you do not vote out of anger on D3. Calm yourself down and focus on the game.-
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Like i cannot understand you cannot understand there is no game solving in this game unless both of me and Fitz have flipped town. There is no other direction in this game, ever, before that happens. There is no game solving before that because there is literally 2 suspects and 1 mafia left atm. I don't even know what BV is trying to do rn because if you have 2 suspects and don't see how anyone else can be mafia you just fucking fglip the 2 people and if the game goes on you then re-evaluate, you don't find 3rd or 4th suspect before you have flipped the suspects you already have ffs.
That's why this game is dumb.-
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That was nothing similar, you wanted to CONCEDE as town!!!!!!!In post 2309, Rels wrote:You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game.-
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Like this is what you do. You flip me and you flip Fitz. One of us is going to turn up mafia.In post 2310, outoforder wrote:Like i cannot understand you cannot understand there is no game solving in this game unless both of me and Fitz have flipped town. There is no other direction in this game, ever, before that happens. There is no game solving before that because there is literally 2 suspects and 1 mafia left atm. I don't even know what BV is trying to do rn because if you have 2 suspects and don't see how anyone else can be mafia you just fucking fglip the 2 people and if the game goes on you then re-evaluate, you don't find 3rd or 4th suspect before you have flipped the suspects you already have ffs.
That's why this game is dumb.
The one you didn't flip this day (if they flip town) you treat as town the next day and actually listen to their reads and reasoning. Regardless of what they say you however 100% flip them the next day.
That's what is going to happen anyways regarding lynches assuming the game goes on after this day and i am perfectly fine with that. The thing is, who do you lynch first? Who will give you better chances in LYLO regarding their readsif they happen to be town? Because rn both of me and Fitz are calling each other scum and that won't change until the other one of us has flipped.-
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i don't understand the first sentence.In post 2312, Rels wrote:
so it isn't a town point for you anymore.In post 2311, outoforder wrote:
That was nothing similar, you wanted to CONCEDE as town!!!!!!!In post 2309, Rels wrote:You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game.
About Fitz, you're saying he faked saying he was hammered ?
yes.-
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Yes i am. My filter doesn't contain any inconsistencies however much you wanna look at it that way.
In a same way i can say your read on Fitz doesn't make any sense and you want to lynch me because if i am alive after this dayphase i WILL make sure the town lynches you ain LYLO after i flip (because that's what i will do).-
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What are you atalking about i never said such a thing especially when i have fucking argued Hapa WOULDNT (as mafia) vote for Hawk...In post 2317, Rels wrote:"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"
That's not what i said. I said i never kill him, i didn't say i am the ONLY one who cannot kill him.BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"
Yeah i didn't. I somehow thought their votes (hapa-fitz) on D1 were much more TvM indicative than they were. And because i thought Hapa was town i didn't see the "scrub scumteam" (see the wagon on him on D1) that i see now."(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"
Where the fuck are the inconsistencies you're talking about?-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: January 21, 2017
What post?
I don't really understand why you think i am scum because the things you just laid out are 100% false.
So can you be concise? If not i don't fault you for that but i am not gonna go read your filter because i don't care. I can answer you though if you make a single post for it.
The only thing i have provably fucked up in this game is my read on Hapa which is also only a half-fuck up since i never had time to discuss anything with him on D2. If you know how to read me you know what to look for in how i treat people in case i am scumreading, null-reading, or townreading them. If you are any smart you can tell that my townread on Hapa is based on things other people than Hapa have done. And that i really wanted to question him on D2. Yeah i made a fucking terrible decision on him i should have never made and if you think that makes me mafia then you're jsut bad or have no idea on how to read me. Because it can clearly be seen from my posting what i think about EVERYONE in the game. There are no inconsistencies in my filter, it's impossible there are. So if you feel like there are please point me out on what those things are then so i can at least answer them.-
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outoforder Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: January 21, 2017
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