Open 671: Greater Idea - OVER

[bangthemafia]

Let's get this party started!

I'm Masons with RadiantCowbells and Lovers with Not_Mafia.

Crazy, I know.

VOTE: culted

WTF.

If you are a town, you have exposed not 1 but 3 power roles. Also you hav indicated that there are only 1 extra lover and only 1 extra mason assuming that mason PT and lovers PM will tell the list of all members.

So @Radiant and @Not_Mafia, if you are town and know Grey is lying, expose him.

On the contrary, since there are multuple factions likely, each faction would be more interested to take out others before taking out townies. So scums are likely to claim citizens quite early. For now i hav eyes on you.

And for using a possible genuine reason as an excuse to make the RVS sound more like a serious vote,

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[bangthemafia]

Game suddenly seems to have picked up. Will read in sometime and respond page by page

[bangthemafia]

Page 1-

Daves, Culted, Kop, Not Mafia, RC, Vax discarded town roles.

In my opinion, someone may discard a trivial town role if the 2nd role is a potent town PR or scum. But discarding a potent town PR might come from the fact that 2nd option is even a better PR or scum. So chances of finding scum is higher in 2nd case.

Of these, Culted, Kop, RC discarded town roles which are powerful and interesting. Just for this, I will keep my eye on them

Disclaimer- This is my only 2nd game on this site and certainly first ever unbalanced one. So I may be wrong in my logic. In that case, dont be a prick and jump on me. Just walk me through your logic.

Further down page 1-

Let's get this party started!

I'm Masons with RadiantCowbells and Lovers with Not_Mafia.

Crazy, I know.

VOTE: culted

WTF.

If you are a town, you have exposed not 1 but 3 power roles. Also you hav indicated that there are only 1 extra lover and only 1 extra mason assuming that mason PT and lovers PM will tell the list of all members.

So @Radiant and @Not_Mafia, if you are town and know Grey is lying, expose him.

On the contrary, since there are multuple factions likely, each faction would be more interested to take out others before taking out townies. So scums are likely to claim citizens quite early. For now i hav eyes on you.

And for using a possible genuine reason as an excuse to make the RVS sound more like a serious vote,

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

So you scold me for roleclaiming on the grounds that it outs three (presumably town) power roles... in a role madness game, no less... then illustrate why my claim doesn't prove alignment at all

in the same post.

VOTE: bangthemafia

When did i say its NAI in my post? I just said that why would town claim so early and expose other townies too. Having said this, I dont really think its AI. But my point is that I haf not voiced that in my post and you dont know me so how did you conclude that?

I'm neither Masons with RC nor Lovers with NM, btw.

Thanks for the latitude, fellas.

So you lied. I am very much tempted to follow "Lynch all liars" strategy. But will first read through all 10 pages.

[bangthemafia]

I'd legit like to see a bangthemafia wagon.

The way he raged at me for my claim and then put out a flaccid RC vote, he was hoping to spark a wagon on me but didn't want the blowback of doing it himself.

All assumptions! Great!! I know where you come from, Mr Know it all troll!!! You beat Kain Tepes and Transcend!!

I "raged" at you coz I thought you were seriously claiming. I RVSed RC coz I thought you could actually be an idiot townie claiming in RVS.

Rest of page 2 & 3 was just you throwing shade on Spade for no apparent reason apart from your wildcard assumptions!!!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

This slot can die regardless of its alignment.

@RC plz explain this

[bangthemafia]

Oh.

I think NM is lyncher on me.

If he's a lyncher, we can just ignore him.

We need to find scum, not impotent third party.

Counteroffer:

He's blatantly acting like 3p lyncher on me in order to mask the fact that he's actually scum and lead us to that point of view.

If he's 3rd party he's a non-town and a valuable lynch anyway. let's get rid of him.

The thing is, if he's a lyncher with a scum target, lynching you would be win/win.

I'd rather sort my read on you than lynch a TP simply for being TP.

As much as I hate trolls like Grey, this post is super townie. A scum would start getting allies towards a lynch- whether a third party or townie or other scum faction. So Grey's attempts look genuine scumhunting. But your style is horrible dude!

[bangthemafia]

I still didn't understand what your point is. I discarded alien prober, kept wildcard. Was given the new role when the game started.

You are saying your role is "Wild Card"

@grey and vaxkiller I dare you both to get me lynched today.

This can easily happen. Though I understand your exasoeration.

That wasn't an actual dare. I was trying to convey that I have a role that can be easily verified as town.

But it appears that i was mistaken on the actual power of my role and cant be verified.

My role is weird. I win when town wins. But my power is anti-town. Dont know what to do with that.

Why do you want to even announce that you win when town wins? You are basically softclaiming a townie PR that someone can zero down from the role PM list- I am not even intersted in that right now. My point is, and thats why I got agitated when Grey claimed in RVS, that in a multiple scum faction game (and this is my first ever), each scum would want to eliminate others. By announcing your town alignment you make it easy for them.

Motherfucker, I'll votepark you out of spite of you don't shut the fuck up.

Please try to act civilized. All of us are here to play and hav fun, not to hear some abusive troll.

Motherfucker, I'll votepark you out of spite of you don't shut the fuck up.

Is this how they vent anger in where to come from?
Stop swearing. I am serious.
VOTE: Grey

So in your little worldview, scum tries to win by being assholes and pissing people off, right?

Voting me for any other excuse than thinking I am scum is basically admitting to playing to a scum wincon, so I'm sure you'll find some way to call me scum because I used a dirty word.

Let's hear it.

No. I dont think you are a scum. So I may not vote for you. But some more of your abusiveness and I swear I will report to either mod or site admin and get you blocked. Do you get that? We are all strangers and lets behave with some basic courtsey and civilized manners.

[bangthemafia]

My point is, and thats why I got agitated when Grey claimed in RVS, that in a multiple scum faction game (and this is my first ever), each scum would want to eliminate others.

2 things to note here
1)This isn't your first multiball.
2)How do you know it's a multiball? You would only know that if you were a 3rd party(jester/lyncher) that can't exist without scum(mafia, ww etc.)

Hi Charl, I can see where you are getting at. Yes, this is my first game with possibilities of multiple scum factions. The only game I have played on MS, as you know, had a SK. I thought unlike SK who is a loner and so doesn't have to worry about giving away associations, scum factions would be more wary of the other factions because they have to worry that their partnerships are not apparent. So I thought scum parties would be actively hunting for buddying, partnering to find out and eliminate other scums.

Two fold

1. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. If you like being treated like shit, then don't be an asshole.

2. Please welcome Gamma Emerald as he replaces culted effective immediately! I'll update the table when I'm home from the auto store.

Hey Gamma, welcome!

[bangthemafia]

Okay so the main reason I decided to hop in here was to play a Greater Idea game in forum style, since I have experience with this setup in chat mafia.
One thing I'd like to mention is

scummy discards

. There are two forms: initial and claimed. Initial scummy discards are when someone discards a very powerful role. It suggests they found a better (usually scum) role. Claimed ones are where the claimed role is less fun to play then the discard, suggesting the claim is fake.
Also, I'm not sure if this is the case, but

usually

roles are not repeated. So the Parrot that is discarded in the OP cannot be held by another player.

Thanks for this tip. Quite interesting and logical!!

I "raged" at you coz I thought you were seriously claiming. I RVSed RC coz I thought you could actually be an idiot townie claiming in RVS.

So you thought I was seriously claiming... which is I was, that also meant RC was a mason... bit you voted RC, who you thought was a mason because of my claim... which proves that you obviously did not beloved my claim to be outing town pr's

Thats because I actually went back to see the list of roles and realized that in this setup masons can be non towns like werewolf mason etc and still all madons would together share a PT. Same for lovers. So believing your claim didn't mean believing they were towns. And anyway that was my first vote- more like RVS but going for whatever little I had that time! Does that answer you?

[bangthemafia]

Avatar	User	Predecessor(s)	Discard	Flip	Time of Death
	alban	n/a	Mafia Cupid	n/a	n/a
	bangthemafia	n/a	Alien Vanillaiser	n/a	n/a
	Charloux	n/a	Werewolf	n/a	n/a
	culted	n/a	Conspiracy Theorist	n/a	n/a
	davesaz	n/a	Reloader	n/a	n/a
	-Grey-	n/a	Werewolf Mason	n/a	n/a
	Kop	n/a	Treestump	n/a	n/a
	Not_Mafia	n/a	Evangelistic Townie	n/a	n/a
	RadiantCowbells	KainTepes	Parrot	n/a	n/a
	Secret Agent Jin	n/a	Survivor Mason	n/a	n/a
	Spade_Ace	n/a	Alien Prober	n/a	n/a
	Vaxkiller	DiamondSentinel	Lover	n/a	n/a

Alien Vanillaiser, Reloader, and Parrot strike me as notable discards rn

@Gamma,
Why reloader? They reload 1 shot abilities right? That can be quite antitown

Why alien vanillaizer? This is the first time I got a choice to choose my role. And I always love playing town. Being scum is so taxing. You can check 657's Dead PT.

Why not conspiracy theorist? Any investigative role is quite great in my opinion as you hav some extra info than others and can help town.

Why not treestump. Its a role where a strong player can keep guiding / helping town even after dying

[bangthemafia]

would

Not really. For people like me who are extremely busy in real life, town alignment suits best. I get very taxed up as scum coz i hav to keep inventing lies and false accusations. People do say i make a good scum. But thats only when i hav lot of time which generally I dont have. So given a choice I would anyday choose a town role

[bangthemafia]

So believing your claim didn't mean believing they were towns.

Ta-da!

My point exactly. All your bluster about me making assumptions was bullshit because my deductions, as you yourself admitted,

were correct

!

Who's. Yo. Daddy?!

God! For one last time, read my post carefully-

Let's get this party started!

I'm Masons with RadiantCowbells and Lovers with Not_Mafia.

Crazy, I know.

VOTE: culted

WTF.

If you are a town, you have exposed not 1 but 3 power roles. Also you hav indicated that there are only 1 extra lover and only 1 extra mason assuming that mason PT and lovers PM will tell the list of all members.

So @Radiant and @Not_Mafia, if you are town and know Grey is lying, expose him.

On the contrary, since there are multuple factions likely, each faction would be more interested to take out others before taking out townies. So scums are likely to claim citizens quite early. For now i hav eyes on you.

And for using a possible genuine reason as an excuse to make the RVS sound more like a serious vote,

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I said if u r town u hav exposed 3 PRs- not necessarily town. Thats why i said to RC and NM that IF they are town and know u are lying, they shud come out. What's difficult to understand, man? Yours was post #8 and mine 15. On the 1st page how would i know for sure whether u r lying or telling truth. I considered both possibilities and tried to make sense of whatever luttle i knew about this setup.

Now can we just close this matter and focus on something else???

[bangthemafia]

mmmm Alban feels like he's backpedaling on page 7

Sorry but can you explain what is backpedalling?

All caught up.
Questions/FOSes (questions because some of these feel like misunderstandings)
RC - Why are you determined to lynch Not Mafia?
alban - can you explain your thought process on page 7?
bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?
Vax - explain your unvote in the post I quoted.

I didnt have any thought out motive that I wanted to accomplish. I am just not used to roleclaims in people's first posts on the 1st page. And this guy comes out with not only his own but 2 others' roleclaims. SO my intuitive reaction was WTF!

Not super familiar (all ongoing) but regardless of meta, RC's actions are

extremely

scummy.

NM is towny
prob a tier higher than Charles/Dave

Dave is a bit towny too

Walk me through your cases please. Whats scummy about RC, and whats towny about NM, Dave, Charl? I remember my Scumpartner!Charl from 657 and his style was the same there. Mostly posting stuff just to stay in picture and not get called a lurker. Fair enough that you have a scum lean on me. But would also appreciate some reasons for scumreading me apart from my reaction to Grey's fake roleclaim. Initially I got surprised that someone is claiming on page 1. Also his aggressive style and tunneling on spade for wildcard. Good for him maybe, but usually such aggression leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even then, after he turned down RC's seemingly logical suggestion to lynch NM (I would, maybe, have fallen for that), I started getting town vibes from him. NM, on the other hand, has not explained much. Town would initially start getting agitated for being suspected before they give up and get frustrated, in my opinion. Still, he was the only one who openly said that Grey's push on me was shitty and acknowledged my newness. You may call it buddying but I give him some town points for that!

So as of now, my llist is-
Strong town read- Grey, Gamma
Null to town read- Vaxkiller
Null- Alban, Kop, Charl, SAJ, Spade, NM (upgraded here from below)
Null to scum lean- Culted, RC

[bangthemafia]

RC is at L-3

[bangthemafia]

Null to scum lean- Culted, RC

Explain these, please.

Actually nothing much. My scum reads hav been quite bad in this game. Culted, because of lurking largely and the role he discarded. But Gamma replacement in the slot seems townie. But then there is also this buddying between you and him, my 2 strong townreads.

Snipped. Referenced ongoing games. Do not do this again. ~T

So I really dont know. I m not giving clean chit to you/GE either.

RC from beginning has behaved erratically. Using a V/LA as excuse to vote, tunnelling on NM are few reasons. But I keep second guessing myself that why would a scum!RC make himself so conspicupus by tunnelling on NM.

So I really dont know if my direction is right.

Town is shit.

VOTE: RC

Lynch NM tomorrow. bye.

I doubt town!RC would vote herself so early in the game and that too with just 3 previous votes.
So. Bye

VOTE: RC

Agree with Alban. This was opportunistic and uncharacteristic of you. A town!you hav always tried to give "frustrated or fixated citizens" benifit of doubt in such scenarios. You just made me highly suspicious of u. Plus the whole melodrama of wildcard. More than role claim, your theatrics of hey can you guess, my first part... Etc etc. You just climbed up in my scum list

RC is at L-3

How come you didnt comment on the selfvote?

Coz it was very obvious. Vote count was not.

[bangthemafia]

I am surprised you find her self-vote suspicious enough to vote for her when town!you has done it

so many times

out of frustration in our games. Bang can confirm a frustrated town!Spade's predisposition to self-vote.

Who knows what affiliation she is, but I find it suspicious that you won't give her that leeway and acknowledge that a town can be driven to self-vote.

You must he confusing me with someone else. I have never selfvoted ever. And if bang confirms that, he is scum along with you.

This is just not you! As town you hav always found reasons and possibilities that a certain behaviour from a player could be from a misguided townie mindset rather than scum one. Whereas here I see you jumping to "you are scum" comclusion very fast.

Now, sorry if you feel that my memory is bad, but I do remember you self voting and then removing it after persuasion. Just that I m not too sure whether it was as town or as scum.

Apart from this, you have many times also followed the stance that "ok, i m ready to be lynched. Coz if so many people suspect me, the town will be fixated on me next day too. So lynch me and move on"

*i have never selfvoted ever as TOWN

I doubt thst. But there is anothet side to it. U didnt know what i was going to say and still you are so sure in stating something which could hav been negated by me. So i will take that on face value.

But ur opportunistic voting to RC, unvoting it on countering, and jumping to scum reading people (RC, me, alban) worry me!

UNVOTE:

Do you think he has done anything scummy so far in the game?

[bangthemafia]

The claim on page 1, it's a joke and should be taken as that. I don't think anyone in a town frame of mind, especially with partners would out themselves in that manner. Unless it was pre-organized before hand, which I very highly doubt anyone would do. Even if that role exist (I was unaware of such a role) it has to be taken not gospel.

Anyone jumping on that claim and berating it, is more likely to come from scum rather than town, as scum always look for a easy route to push without hindering much resistance. Especially when the 2 names mentioned in that claim, didn't back it up, gives scum more impetus to push further into it.

#15 Bang jumped straight onto it, but would not put a hand to vote it, especially with the mentality he demonstrated in that particular post. He was stancing that he was ready to go at it, but jumped onto RC.

Second in the list to lynch would be Alban, I find it scummy that he put one foot forward then retreated softly because the case wasn't what he thought he could have presented.

I hav explained the reason for my questioning Grey but voting RC. And its there in your own post in 1st 2 paragraphs and still you don't seem to get it. I was startled by Grey's boistrous claim, but cud not rule out a town!Grey doing that. So voted for whstever little I had.

I do not think albam is a scum. He is a much more careful and makes a great scum than to "back pedal" so obviously.

[bangthemafia]

mmmm Alban feels like he's backpedaling on page 7

Sorry but can you explain what is backpedalling?

Trying to take back what you said. Remember how alban kept making new excuses for why he mentioned Spade's avatar in Open 657?

That

is backpedaling.

All caught up.
Questions/FOSes (questions because some of these feel like misunderstandings)
RC - Why are you determined to lynch Not Mafia?
alban - can you explain your thought process on page 7?
bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?
Vax - explain your unvote in the post I quoted.

I didnt have any thought out motive that I wanted to accomplish. I am just not used to roleclaims in people's first posts on the 1st page. And this guy comes out with not only his own but 2 others' roleclaims. SO my intuitive reaction was WTF!

tbh It feels scummy, since you aren't really being proactive, just commenting on things.

I know it might. Still I said so because I dont have any other explanation ready made and cooked up my sleeve like a scum. I am just trying to guage a whole lot of people here, most of whom are not outing any tells. Kop, you, Spade and Alban shud know that as scum I hav lot of reasons ready for every statement of mine. I am a townie this game. Your problem if you guys dont wanna believe.

[bangthemafia]

Okay so the main reason I decided to hop in here was to play a Greater Idea game in forum style, since I have experience with this setup in chat mafia.
One thing I'd like to mention is

scummy discards

. There are two forms: initial and claimed. Initial scummy discards are when someone discards a very powerful role. It suggests they found a better (usually scum) role. Claimed ones are where the claimed role is less fun to play then the discard, suggesting the claim is fake.
Also, I'm not sure if this is the case, but

usually

roles are not repeated. So the Parrot that is discarded in the OP cannot be held by another player.

Thanks for this tip. Quite interesting and logical!!

^Trying to figure out his new fake claim^

Really? And announcing it from rooftop when I didnt have to! You are such a genious!!!

Charloux's scum but I'm not doing jack while there's this many votes on me.

If you are town, you must! I hav been scum!partner with Charl in #657 and I have this strange feeling that his posts are similar to that game. So who knows, maybe I will buy your arguement

[bangthemafia]

Null to scum lean- Culted, RC

Explain these, please.

Actually nothing much. My scum reads hav been quite bad in this game. Culted, because of lurking largely and the role he discarded. But Gamma replacement in the slot seems townie. But then there is also this buddying between you and him, my 2 strong townreads.

Snipped. Referenced ongoing games. Do not do this again. ~T

So I really dont know. I m not giving clean chit to you/GE either.

RC from beginning has behaved erratically. Using a V/LA as excuse to vote, tunnelling on NM are few reasons. But I keep second guessing myself that why would a scum!RC make himself so conspicupus by tunnelling on NM.

So I really dont know if my direction is right.

You can't throw that comment around right now about your scum reads being bad in this game. Everybody will have bad scum reads since the games only a few days old, and only 340 odd posts made, no reads are going to be a dead cert, and nobody is going to have a high percentage rate of having correct scum reads. The only way you are going to know if your scum reads are entirely terrible is the fact when you have a full phase done with, bodies flipped, for you to then know for sure whether they are actually good reads, or bad reads.

I think this is you flimsying because you were asked to explain those reads and you couldn't back it up with any given facts, or any posts that pinged for you to have that read. Any reads you have can be backed up, or at least explained with a post that gave you that feeling. Especially scum reads.

VOTE: Bangthemafia

Lovely!

Read my #396,397. As scum I never let my doubts and hesitations come out so openly. I would push a wagon of RC, which is completely viable right now and not express my doubts about it. Like I am slowly getting more and more suspicious of Spade who has not even a single vote on him.

[bangthemafia]

I am surprised you find her self-vote suspicious enough to vote for her when town!you has done it

so many times

out of frustration in our games. Bang can confirm a frustrated town!Spade's predisposition to self-vote.

Who knows what affiliation she is, but I find it suspicious that you won't give her that leeway and acknowledge that a town can be driven to self-vote.

You must he confusing me with someone else. I have never selfvoted ever. And if bang confirms that, he is scum along with you.

This is just not you! As town you hav always found reasons and possibilities that a certain behaviour from a player could be from a misguided townie mindset rather than scum one. Whereas here I see you jumping to "you are scum" comclusion very fast.

Now, sorry if you feel that my memory is bad, but I do remember you self voting and then removing it after persuasion. Just that I m not too sure whether it was as town or as scum.

Apart from this, you have many times also followed the stance that "ok, i m ready to be lynched. Coz if so many people suspect me, the town will be fixated on me next day too. So lynch me and move on"

*i have never selfvoted ever as TOWN

I doubt thst. But there is anothet side to it. U didnt know what i was going to say and still you are so sure in stating something which could hav been negated by me. So i will take that on face value.

But ur opportunistic voting to RC, unvoting it on countering, and jumping to scum reading people (RC, me, alban) worry me!

UNVOTE:

Do you think he has done anything scummy so far in the game?

ohhh puhleeezzz stop with the 'what a Town!spade would have done' argument. I fell for it once. Not planning to do that again. Come up with something better. And yes your memory is bad cos I have never selfvoted as Town.

Bang and Alban are both scum.

This is a completely rattled scum!Spade in my opinion.

Motherfucker, I'll votepark you out of spite of you don't shut the fuck up.

Is this how they vent anger in where to come from?
Stop swearing. I am serious.
VOTE: Grey

So in your little worldview, scum tries to win by being assholes and pissing people off, right?

Voting me for any other excuse than thinking I am scum is basically admitting to playing to a scum wincon, so I'm sure you'll find some way to call me scum because I used a dirty word.

Let's hear it.

You have already heard it in 199 and 212. Your melodrama (considered effort and improvement by some) rings fake.
Much before I took objection to your language.

Thanks for conveniently leaving out the links.

I thought so too, but now I think he is pretending.

Oooooooooohhh game set match. He is correct, Grey.
I dunno why but i think the interaction between you two is totally staged.

So ur whole argument for why grey is scum is melodrama and acting?

VOTE: Aban
wish i could vote Bang as well.

Great, thanks. Your opportunistic votes are very clear. Firat on RC, then unvoting him, then alban when almost everyone is talking about his so called backpedalling. And then FoSing me just when Grey, Gamma, Kop and even Vaxkiller seem to be suspecting me.

So call ot Omgus or whatever, I dont care, but you are a scum!

VOTE: Spade_Ace

[bangthemafia]

VOTE: Charloux
If he is scum why did Charloux choose RC as his kill? No faction has daychat right?

Fake ignorance!!??? But I will deal with you tomorrow. For today-
VOTE: Charloux

[bangthemafia]

VOTE: Dave

@Grey, I think Dave is being setup. In 530 Lowell has very unambiguously nominated Dave for day 2 lynch. Which scum would so blatantly get associated with such a nightkill?

On the contrary, isnt it a classic scum tactic to nightkill those who town read them and try for a lynch of people scumreading them. Atleast thats what I have almost always followed as scum. That way you can always WIFOM in the day. But if scum kills people scumreading them, they might not be caught on initual days. But as days progress, and they survive for long, town starts adding things together from nightkills and they are caught.

If we believe this could be a possibility, let me dig deeper in Lowell's ISO for the exact post no, but Lowell did say he townread Charl and Spade and scumread Kop for something he couldnt explain. Charl was a scum. So Spade is a player who could use Lowell's kill to his maximum use.

Add to this, my reasons to suspect Spade on day 1, explained already in post #400, Spade's sudden FoS on me and Alban in the post below (we are the only 2 players who know Spade's game from much before mafiascum, so a scum!Spade would love for us to be out of his way), and then shifting to Dave as soon as he saw a possibility of wagon there, makes me almost sure he is a scum.

VOTE: Not Mafia

@grey is Dave more scummier than Bang? I prefer a bang or alban lynch?
@gamma NM had a good reason to vote for rc

I don't like NM's reaction to RC's claim

No one kill dave tonight please. He's my guy for tomorrow.

Looks.like a good reason to build a wagon.
VOTE: Dave

KILL: RC

You can't even answer a basic question RC...

He's not a cop

I could see scum!NM making 473 before the dayvig shot, to try and sell the kill... but what does he gain by saying it

after

the shot?

Agree mostly.

VOTE: Spade_Ace

[bangthemafia]

I have been scumread on day1, 5/6 games i have played here on MS. My style is just scummy. I find it convenient that alban and bang, guys who know the way i play, using my playstyle as a reason to suspect me. They did the exact same thing in a previous game and tried to get me lynched.

The reason am sheeping you is cos ur reasoning for your reads are good. Charloux and Dave

Misrepresentation. Seeking sympathies by the "I so innocent, but my style is scummy" act. Majorly buttering Grey.

When you said that you didnt even read my last post, how do you say I am suspecting you for your style. Go read my 400. I sm scum reading you NOT because you are playing your usual game which you feel is scummy, but BCOZ u r NOT ur usual self. Anybody who wants caneta Spade's town and scum games. If mod allows, I can post the link too.

@grey is Dave more scummier than Bang? I prefer a bang or alban lynch?
@gamma NM had a good reason to vote for rc

You'd have had better luck trying to get me to vote alban after his behavior around the Charloux wagon.

I don't trust my early d1 reads but alban really scummed it up at the end.

I also don't really trust anyone whose scumreads mirror my own because that never really happens.

Trust your instincts, Grey!

btw I am SRing those two as well so *eh*

I get dave and bang, but alban leans town for me.

Gamma, Vax, can you elaborate readpns for scum reading me? Dont tell me you are still on page 1!

[bangthemafia]

Can meta*

[bangthemafia]

@bang if you are town, then trust me, am not scum.

In that case, let me reiterate. Trust me, I am a townie. But, truely speaking this (589) is the only post where I felt yes, you could be a townie too. And so right now I am not moving my vote from you. But not hard-parking it there too. So then walk me through your scumreads, Spade. Whom do you scumread and why?

You won't be lynching me.

Dave, dont show this attitude. If you are a townie, put up a defense.

Can meta*

Thats still vague, Gamma. Elaborate what "general actions and things I said" were scummy to you.
Read on spade, general actions and things you've said
don't like the "still on page 1" attack
VOTE: bangthemafia

[bangthemafia]

It's obviously a frame given his parting words. Though it should be so transparently a frame that nobody should buy it.
But at a much higher level than this, think a little bit about what I've said all game and realize that town is much better off if you take me permanently off the table.

If you're taken permanently off the table, you also become a high priority nk.

I would think a valuable role would want to be suspected but not heavily wagoned, to keep scum hoping they might be a future mislynch.

This game is not role madness. There is the possibility of VTs.

I don't live in " theoretically possible" land. I live in reality land.

In reality land, people will choose scum over VT.

Agree with and like the above 2 posts of Grey.

@Grey, I think Dave is being setup. In 530 Lowell has very unambiguously nominated Dave for day 2 lynch. Which scum would so blatantly get associated with such a nightkill?

Scum that stands to be outed with a guilty result from an investigative role that softed his target the day before.

"Scum would never" is shittastic, lazy thinking that empowers scum to do the most blatantly scummy things.

Maybe. But why and how would scum presume that Lowell was an investigative role. He just said Dave was his guy for day 2. That could just mean he wanted keep Dave for lynching on day 2 and focus on Charl day 1. Thats exactly what I thought about Spade. I found him scummy but wanted to lynch Charl first.

aaaaaand now I have the same reads as you as well.

Too many people agreeing with too many of my reads.

There some strange shit going on.

I will tell you what that strange shit is. I think scum have found a town leader in you and are trying to be clear in your eyes and sheep you in your reads.

I think...

Actually...

Yeah...

I'm gonna sheep Gamma today.

VOTE: bangthemafia

Can you just think of and post reasons why you are voting for me. If you dont, I have nothing more to say or defend.

[bangthemafia]

Can meta*

Read on spade, general actions and things you've said
don't like the "still on page 1" attack
VOTE: bangthemafia

Thats still vague, Gamma. Elaborate what "general actions and things I said" were scummy to you.

EBWOP

[bangthemafia]

Can you just think of and post reasons why you are voting for me. If you dont, I have nothing more to say or defend.

Who is scum? Who is town? Reads list, please.

I'm seeing some effort put in on defending yourself, but I'm not seeing any interest from you on solving the game.

Really? Thats my style. I tend to get focussed on people. I was focussed right now on Spade and I gave my reasons. But what about you? Read your ISO once. You have just given reads list. Not given much reasoning for the reads nor for your frequent vote shifts. SO I dont need a certificate of approval from you for my style.

But still your point taken, mainly coz I keep feeling you are more of a trolling arrogant townie than an aggressive scum.

So here is my list-
Towniest to scummiest
Strong townlean- Alban, Grey, Gamma
Not sure- Not Mafia, Vax , Kop,
Scumlean- Dave < Spade

My only doubt arises from post 589

@alban, what do you think of #589. You think a scum!Spade does that kind of emotional appeal?

[bangthemafia]

Wow amazing. 2 claims.

Spade, I trust your claim but agree with Grey that if it comes to it, town should lynch you sometime on future simply bcoz you were scummy, and your claim cant be verified.

Also we need to be careful now. Coz if anyone wants to be a cult, they would target u. These would be players who wanted to be scum but got both town roles. So those with town discards.

You are right that there are atleast 4 townies in 9 of us. With you 2 claiming, and since i know i m town, that means at least 2 in rest 6.

Grey, thanks for a valuable claim. You could hav not claimed and played as mafia. But its great you prefer VT over being a mafia wincon player.

I think we should lynch Grey now. We could also lynvh domeone else and keep Grey as a reserve lynch for day 3 or 4. But with 4/9 townies, the worst case scenario if we mislynch someone else and a townie is night killed, is 2/7. That could be bad

@Mod, if a Judas or Saulus is lynched, will you reveal their role or ypu just tell that day ends but xyz is not lynched.

If mod reveals the original role and hence the new role too, I am all for lynching Grey

By the way,

Unvote: Spade

[bangthemafia]

Waiting for mod clarification. Dont want to lynch a jester and not even know abt it

[bangthemafia]

@Mod,

I think some of us are playing this setup for the first time, so a lot of queries from last few pages will get solved if you answer these 3 questions clearly-

1. If a faction player (scum, werewolf, alien) targets black goo and gets converted to cult, will the alignment change be made known to the other partners of the faction? If no, wont it be obvious due to that player being deleted from the factional chat PT?

2. Does the members of scum faction know the identity of saulus from game start?

3. If a saulus/judas is lynched, will you end day with revealing their roles or will it be just end of day with lynch failed?

[bangthemafia]

Will catch up in some time

[bangthemafia]

Please make sure you have checked your PMs as your alignment may have changed overnight.

There is at least one player whose alignment might have changed overnight.

Why do u say this? It could be a standard practice to remind this to players in a role madness game

[bangthemafia]

Regarding other mafia members knowing about who the Saulus is.

Suppose Charloux and his partners knew you are the Saulus. They will make sure to not target you. They prevent you from getting lynched. So if there was any one defending you early on, it is a scumtell.

Agree. Waiting for mod's reply. If scum knew aboit saulus, i m gonna look into everyone who supported Grey on D1

[bangthemafia]

Also we need to be careful now. Coz if anyone wants to be a cult, they would target u. These would be players who wanted to be scum but got both town roles. So those with town discards.

I don't think anyone will want to be a cult in between the game. Getting a wincon as a cult is quite difficult. So I doubt anyone would willing target me at night.

Cult doesn't have a nightkill, so they have to rely on mislynches, dodging death, and recruiting to win.

Nobody WANTS to be in a cult.

I agree i hav zero experience with cult. But I dont completely agred. Think of a player who wanted to play some anti town role but got both town cards. Black goo is like an angel to them.

Lack of night kill doesnt take away their fun of having anti town role, especially with a continuously increading chance of expanding faction

[bangthemafia]

Antitown cos he might have to end up revealing his role.

Poor choice as his target was someone who ended up dead.

With already 2 claims out, does anybody think a mass claim is good? Anyway, if not now, i think we must go for claims on day 3.

If Grey is not lynched, scum may have to waste their NK on him. Else we can lynch him day3 to get an additional townie.

But if spade is not lynched, his claim is a potential source of increasing anti town roles unless a protective role protects Spade at night.

So as of now, my plan is to wait 2-3 calender days prior tp deadline to see if we catch someone really scummy. If we dont, i m up for lynching spade or grey, but leaning more towards spade.

[bangthemafia]

@bang are you even listening to yourself. If a protective role protects me they get converted to a cult faction. If scum kill me they get converted to cult faction. Anyone who targets me get converted to cult faction.

Did you check out how tough it is to win as cult. It is nearly impossible. So what you are saying is "a person who wanted to play as scum but who ended up as town might target me even at the cost of their wincon???''

If scum target me, it is AGAINST their wincon. They will not night kill me.

You sound like a scum who has realised that the only way to get me out of the game is to mislynch me.

1. My bad. Didnt realize you cant be protected.
2. Still not convinced. At the cost of what wincon? Whoever targets u, gets converted to a cult. So now they hav a new wincon, right? Just as you yourself explained few posts back. How did you forget that now? So nobody targetting you is actually going against their new wincon.
3. The black goo is such an immune role. Why you cant be a scum faking it? To keep everyone off u. Reminds me of how scum!Charl in 657 claimed vengeful townie and how that gave him immunity for quite a lot time.

Grey is going to be killed either way. If we convert him, mafia will kill him as he is a confirmed townie. If we don't kill him other factions will kill him cos he is still a 'mafia' and hence is a threat to their wincon.

Exactly. Thats why i don't want to lynch him right now. He will be a good NK bait for other factions and we can anytime lynch him if we want a townie.

@grey do you find any logic in what bang has said regarding people purposely targeting black goo.?

PEDIT: Yes assuming there are other factions with kills. One night kill yesterday could indicate that factions with kill powers might not have used their kill. For ex: alien with just one allowed kill.

Can werewolf faction make a kill?. Nothing about kills is mentioned over there.

I think all factions except alien (only once) and cult (no kill) hav a night kill every night.

[bangthemafia]

@grey do you find any logic in what bang has said regarding people purposely targeting black goo.?

I'm trying to be a bit more civil, which is why I have largely avoided commenting on bang's opinion of cults.

Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he got culted last night.

Sure. Suit yourself. I said I hav no experience of cult games. Voicing any opinions that contradict yours is scummy or now culty, right???

[bangthemafia]

@ Mod, I will be V/LA till Monday. Will try to keep checking in between though.

[bangthemafia]

Sure. Suit yourself. I said I hav no experience of cult games. Voicing any opinions that contradict yours is scummy or now culty, right???

Look man,

I don't have much patience for people that argue simply for the sake of arguing.

You take anything I say and turn it into a point of contention and that shit is tedious.

I don't care.

Just forget it.

Just think carefully and tell me, if both u and spade are claiming correctly, which lynch u feel is better for town today.

[bangthemafia]

I mean which one of you or Spade

[bangthemafia]

Yes. Thats fucked up. I think both Spade and Grey could have clarified these simple issues with mod. Esp Spade, if u r really black goo u shud hav checked out the powers with the mod before claiming.

[bangthemafia]

@grey I don't mind being lynched if it is for the the town's benefit. But I want to be convinced that it is beneficial first. Not arguments like a person who wanted to play scum might target me at night sort of.

Assuming I am not lynched, there are 8 alive. I am assuming there won't be more than two scum in each faction right now. Excluding me, they have 5 players to choose from. It is not like there are just 1or 2 players left and my existence is hurting their survival chances. Even if am lynched, scum could still end up killing a power role. So you end up losing one confimed Townie and a PR.

Awww. Such a sacrificial statement. You dont mind being lynched if its for town's benefit!?

Ok answer my question. If town had only 2 choices- you and Grey for lynch, whom do you think we shud lynch? And why?

You said- "Even if am lynched, scum could still end up killing a power role. So you end up losing one confimed Townie and a PR."

Well, one, thats what i was trying to say, if we dont find anyone scummier by end of day2, maybe we shud just lynch you, if scum kills a PR, we can lynch Grey on day3, and get back 1 townie though VT. If scum kills Grey, they are killing an anti townie.

Two, you are not at all a confirmed townie. For me its too much of a coincidence that my top scum read claims a role thats almost untouchable to town PRs.

[bangthemafia]

Also we need to be careful now. Coz if anyone wants to be a cult, they would target u. These would be players who wanted to be scum but got both town roles. So those with town discards.

I don't think anyone will want to be a cult in between the game. Getting a wincon as a cult is quite difficult. So I doubt anyone would willing target me at night.

Cult doesn't have a nightkill, so they have to rely on mislynches, dodging death, and recruiting to win.

Nobody WANTS to be in a cult.

I agree i hav zero experience with cult. But I dont completely agred. Think of a player who wanted to play some anti town role but got both town cards. Black goo is like an angel to them.

Lack of night kill doesnt take away their fun of having anti town role, especially with a continuously increading chance of expanding faction

Black goo doesn't win with cult here

Right. My bad.

But what beats me is why a black goo would not have researched/discussed with mod and known fully aboit the role and its immunity. How and why wouldnt a real black goo not know that kills will be succesful on him?

Only when he is fakeclaiming and was not bothered in first place about getting NKed

[bangthemafia]

U r wrong Gamma. I am a town. Just weighing the options because I just dont trust Spade and his claim. If there was any bloody to confirm their claims, I would just go for one of Dave or NM.

[bangthemafia]

Well, I'd say a bang mafia flip confirms Spade not!Mafia.

There IS Werewolf/Alien/etc

You are truely an idiot.

Dont do this. At the cost of Vaxkiller cringing again, I am a town.

Your 839 is nothing but a prejudiced view from tainted glass. Still will try to respond point by point by tonight.

If u r town convertible by kills as well as lynches, I prefer lynching Spade or anyone from the lurkers. I just hate lurkers. They help aggressive scum get into town leader roles.

[bangthemafia]

Thanks alban and Kop for atleast holding this nonsense wagpn on me.

I told u guys i was on V/LA till Monday. Still Spade and Grey wont leave me, so fine. Here I am posting. Whenever I post, I usually like to start from my last post and comment post by post. But since Grey is so sure I am a scum, I am responding to some of his and Spade's posts first.

Lynching a player you fully believe to be town simply because of their negative utility is doing scum's job for them.

Stop doing scum's job.

Wrong. I suppose you said this in relation to our votes for spade. Coz your claimed role basically has to be lynched sooner or later. Now, about Spade, i m not voting him for his negative utility. My case is this-
He was the scummiest player to me. Reasons given earlier- go ISO me.
Then he suddenly comes up with a claim, that can't be verified, and town doesnt want to touch. Well great, if he is really a town. But what a convenient claim if he is a scum. Nobody will touch him (I mean town PRs) so he remains till end and wins. I dont want that as a town. Thats why I asked you and him whay do you think which one of you shud be lynched first, and then said my plan is to see if there is any scummier player in non spade, non grey players, if there is none, I wanted to vote Spade. But now I kinda agree with NM. There is a small finite chance that i m wrong and Spade is town. To account for that chance, I now feel it's better to lynch Grey before Spade.

I think bang is just new, I'd lynch you before a scumread anyway, we don't know how many scum there are so it's best to make you town earlier rather than later

You're his buddy, so of course you're gonna say that.

I still have to try, though.

@Grey, stop being so presumptious. I am not mafia. And by the way scum defended me, I feel he is a townie too. Scum would hav supported a blinded-with-fury aggressive opinion maker like you and set me up.
@ NM, this is my 3rd game on MS, but first ever with all these mad roles. So yes, I did take and am still taking time to understand what each role means

And tbh I don't 100% believe the claim, why did he not claim immediately?

Agree. A negative utility townie shud hav immediately claimed on day 1 to prevent night 1 culting.

Grey, did you case bang?

Extensively, and recently.

Yes, extensive bullshitting, as you would realize after my flip

Spade,
Not ambiguous. Still suspect you. Your claim appears fake. My vote stays on you.

Spade is a vanity wagon unless you can tell me why my case on bang has no merit.

Bang is caught scum, whereas Spade "might be" scum. Well guess what? All of us "might be" scum.

Bang IS scum.

"Caught"scum? Are you even in your senses? How are you so sure? It is the scum that has to fake this conviction of having found a scum. As town I always get doubts about my reads. Even for my strongest scum reads, I keep getting this feeling of whether I am getting fixated on a townie getting into a town vs town fight. How is it that you are so damn sure? If you are setting me up or you are a fixated townie. I felt it was the later. Thats why I called you Idiot few pages back.

@Mod, please explicitly clarify-
If there were a black goo, what was their role PM? Do they convert everyone targetting them or only town PRs? This is what wiki page on Goo says-

Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.

[bangthemafia]

I think scum's agenda is this.
Push for a lynch on grey on the pretext of it being favourable for town. Get him converted to town. Kill him at nighy. Push for a mislynch on spade the next day. This should be easier the next day with grey dead.

What are you saying, mate? Right now Grey is a scum. For scum, pushing for his lynch and then killing him is like wasting 2 possible opportunities of taking down townies. Instead preventing his lynch (what you are doing now, keeps their numbers high and also gives them chance to take down 2 townies. My guess is scum will keep Grey from getting lynched for as long as possible. When they cant prevent it, they will kill him next night OR when the numbers are about to reach equivalent of LyLo next day, they will kill him previous night.

@bang if you can clearly explain how exactly a grey lynch is beneficial for town, am willing to support it.

As above Plus-
From night 1 result, I feel there is only 1 killing faction or max 2 if a kill failed or a faction has only one or no kill. We dont know the number of scum. They know. So its better to convert Grey as early as possible. Who knows when town number will come down to their numbers?

Else i think it is best one of us gets lynched today. Thw flips would help town.

I am almost certain you are anti town the way you are preventing Grey lynch, trying to build my wagon even when i m V/LA.

Pedit: Grey, i m still thinking you are a blinded self complacent townie happy with your shitty reads on me. Dont push me to thinking you r not.

[bangthemafia]

You still haven't addressed my case.

For that you need to be considerate and sensitive enough to realize i m still in V/LA. But forget it. Whats your case? The #841? Will try to respond to it tomorrow. But just mark my words. Be prepared to eat your words and the inflated ego oozing from your signature with it once I flip. For someone who knows this game better than me, you are just not ready to see the point.

And by the way scum defended me, I feel he is a townie too.

I don't even know wtf you're saying here.

It was a typo. I meant-
And by the way NM defended me, I feel he is a townie too. Same is true for daves now and alban.

Still I have to find time in next 2-3 days to ISO each one and decide whom I am gonna vote.

My plan is- scummiest player > Grey > Spade. Only problem is right now Spade is scummiest for me!

@ Mod,

1. Does saulus get converted to townie even on a night kill? Or is it only lynch?

2. Is it compsory to play by one's CURRENT wincon? If yes, hows Grey offering him for a lynch?

Guys, if mod's response to Q 2 is "its recommended but not compulsory" (I expect this answer else how is he allowing a saulus with scum wincon to offer himself for town conversion), I have a plan. If others also find Spade suspicious, why cant someone of us who has a night action (I dont have any, else I would hav definitely done this) target Spade. If they turn cult, they can reveal this to town since they were originally townie, i assume their loyalty will be with town. If nothing happens to them, we know Spade is a fakeclaiming scum. What do you guys say, please opine.

[bangthemafia]

EBWOP-

You still haven't addressed my case.

For that you need to be considerate and sensitive enough to realize i m still in V/LA. But forget it. Whats your case? The #841? Will try to respond to it tomorrow. But just mark my words. Be prepared to eat your words and the inflated ego oozing from your signature with it once I flip. For someone who knows this game better than me, you are just not ready to see the point.

And by the way scum defended me, I feel he is a townie too.

I don't even know wtf you're saying here.

It was a typo. I meant-
And by the way NM defended me, I feel he is a townie too. Same is true for daves now and alban.

Still I have to find time in next 2-3 days to ISO each one and decide whom I am gonna vote.

My plan is- scummiest player > Grey > Spade. Only problem is right now Spade is scummiest for me!

@ Mod,

1. Does saulus get converted to townie even on a night kill? Or is it only lynch?

2. Is it compsory to play by one's CURRENT wincon? If yes, hows Grey offering him for a lynch?

Guys, if mod's response to Q 2 is "its recommended but not compulsory" (I expect this answer else how is he allowing a saulus with scum wincon to offer himself for town conversion), I have a plan. If others also find Spade suspicious, why cant someone of us who has a night action (I dont have any, else I would hav definitely done this) target Spade. If they turn cult, they can reveal this to town since they were originally townie, i assume their loyalty will be with town. If nothing happens to them, we know Spade is a fakeclaiming scum. What do you guys say, please opine.

[bangthemafia]

Dont push me to thinking you r not.

You were doing SO WELL with your post until the little threat at the end.

I don't respond well to threats.

This is why you harm town. Come out of ur attitude and tell the town if u agree with me on something just the way you took pains to create that loong post to make a case on me.

[bangthemafia]

Sorry about the signature part. Either you changed yours or it was someone else's.

[bangthemafia]

Dont push me to thinking you r not.

You were doing SO WELL with your post until the little threat at the end.

I don't respond well to threats.

This is why you harm town. Come out of ur attitude and tell the town if u agree with me on something just the way you took pains to create that loong post to make a case on me.

You don't get to claim the moral high ground after threatening me.

Not claiming anything. Just tell your thoughts on my post.

[bangthemafia]

@Grey, so here are my responses to your main case post. Try to read this with an unbiased mind if you really want a response from me. You will understand it better if you remember one thing that I have repeatedly said. As town I many times second guess myself. I tend to think "Is this completely impossible to come from a townie?" At times I have burnt my hands due to this. But thats me. So whenever possible I will try to give benefit of doubt to others. But then there will be someone about whom I do get fixated as scumreads.

15 is slimy. bang accuses me of outing PR's then fishes for those same PR's to cc me. On top of that, he votes RC instead of me which makes absolutely no sense at all to me.

Read it at the face value. I can say this because in this game I absolutely dont have anything to hide. I have never played gretaer mafia before, and even in whatever games I have played I have never encountered a claim on page 1. Yes, that startled me. I accused you of outing the PRs because thats what you would have done had you been speaking truth. But I never FISHED for PRs. Read the post again. The only guys who would know you were lying would be the 2 you mentioned. So I appealed to them to expose you if you were lying. That would happen ONLY if they were NOT PRs. SO hows that fishing? It was RVS and I voted for RC because he gave a shitty reason to vote alban. Who votes someone for being V/LA?

His attempt at hairsplitting in 239 doesn't sit right with me. It's an overly defensive response to a simple deduction. Also, he seems to use lynching as a weapon to threaten those who suspect him.

There was no hairsplitting there. I just responded to your accusation of "So you scold me for roleclaiming on the grounds that it outs three (presumably town) power roles... in a role madness game, no less... then illustrate why my claim doesn't prove alignment at all in the same post."
Well, had I not responded to you, I am sure you would have used that too against me- See see he is evading my questions. He has to be scum!

There are some things which players learn. In my first game, I was a scum with Charl. Charl lied and people kept thinking he cant lie so blatantly. When I joined dead PT, someone said this is the best example- Lynch all liers. I remembered that when you said you lied. Hows that AI?

269, he questions why Spade would claim his wincon, but he's not at all curious about Spade's antitown power?

Whats wrong with you? I thought its almost an unwritten rule on MS not to speculate too much about the roles- more so when you have 151 possibilities. As town, at that point, I didnt want another townie to even softclaim. I wasnt interested in Spade's role. Is that scummy or townie? As scum I would have rolefished at that time. But I was upset that by softclaiming a PR, someone might be giving scum ideas where to shoot at night. In hindsight, town!Spade might have done it deliberately as by his own admission he didnt know killing will NOT lead to cult conversion.

270/274 - possible S/S interaction? Anyone?

Take out your red glass and you will see possibilities of a town-scum interaction there.

277, he butters Gamma a little unnecessarily (others had already brought up opinions and questions for others based on discards). Also, he admits my deduction from his initial post was correct.

In both the games I have played apart from this, Gamma was there. So I guess I was being what they call as being civilized and courteous. Others had opinions about discards, but Gamma for the first time put it in specific words. I liked it, so said it. I remember someone even saying this is scum!bang noting tips for his scumplay. Are you guys like serious?

296, he continues trying to split hairs and ignoring the fact that the only PR's town needs to worry about outting are town PR's. That he was objecting to me possibly outing PR's implied that he was concerned that I was risking town power, which is why his immediate vote for RC in the same post he called me out made his entire post look scummy as hell.

Where is any hairsplitting in 296? I was responding to you. This is crazy. Responding to you is called hairsplitting, is it?

341,

RED FLAG

he had

nothing

he wanted to accomplish when he questioned me in 15. I'm sorry, but that's not town. Town asks questions to gamesolve and sort alignments. bang admitted he was doing neither. Also, putting the two players who are interacting with him the most as strong town, while simultaneously listing the player his strongtown read replaced as nullscum. Very scummy. No mention of davesaz in his reads.

Maybe a difference in our English. In my mind, "Accomplish" attributes motives. Gamma's question was- "bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?" I meant to respond that, there was nothing specific in my mind. Grey claimed on page 1, I responded, he suspected me for my response, I answered. It was all a responsive behavior. That does not mean at the least that I am not trying to gamesolve. We all ask questions, respond, make reads list finally to gamesolve only, right? So why did you ignore all my efforts/reads list / interactions / participation and use only this one sentence to accuse of NOT gamesolving or sort alignments. Why was I listing my reads if I didnt want to sort alignments?

My mistake that I didnt notice Gamma was a replacement of culted. I townread Gamma coz of her interaction and null-to-scum read Culted because of lurking not realizing culted was already replaced out. Since I counted and there were already 11 names, I just forgot about Daves. Hows that scummy, dude? A scum would take lot of time and caution in preparing their responses and would never let such silly inconsistencies creep in. So for Christ's sake!

386,

RED FLAG

he hints at suspicion towards both of his strong town reads, but isn't actively trying to nail down those reads. His response to Spade's question about the self-vote was a deflection. Why didn't he just give his opinion on it right there instead of make an excuse to ignore it?

That may be because unlike many players on MS, I have a full fledged and extremely busy job in real life. Have you even noticed that I havent posted anything between Spade's vote in 346 and my post #386. So whenever I might have next come online, I might have taken time to read and then post. I dont sit around MS all the day waiting for each and every post to respond.

397 seems AtEish; excuses

Think whatever you want. Its also called frustration with fellow townies who are not ready to listen to you. Even now, whats happening is the little time I get, gets spent answering to bullshit like this. Bullshit because I know I am a townie. Instead of OR ATLEAST in addition to making this case on me, why dont you respond to the observations I made about Spade and why I find him scummy, about my suggestion of a townie PR deliberately targetting Spade at night and then telling the town the outcome etc etc?

500, desperation to shade

I am tired, Grey. Dont even want to answer non red flags. I found something scummy but want to vote for Charl at that moment. How do I put that on record for town in case I die night 1?

559, he admits it's his style to push for the lynch of those who scumreads him as scum... and then votes for Spade... who is scumreading him!

Do you even realize a scum would not open their cards and strategies so easily and openly? Especially when there are other players who have seen me as scum and also as town?

587 criticizes Spade for "buttering" me, and appeals to me in the same post. Meh feels.

ROFL! You putting me and spade in the same category? Spade did some major buttering. I just said, trust your instincts. Coz, only I would know whether your read on me is rightr or wrong, right? If I wanted to butter, I would not have majorly objected for your foul day 1 language.

619, trying to keep town pitted against each other (response to 602)

No sir, I have seen this many times. Aggressive idiot townies are exploited by scum by buddying, sheeping etc to create a general mindset against lynchbaits.

629,

RED FLAG

he goes from abrasiveness to appeasing, which feels like cogdiss. Either approach on its own might have been genuine, but they're two conflicting states of mind.

You just read too much into everything mate. I usually will give benefit of doubt to anyone who wants to further the game. So I pointed out that you have not given any reasons for voting me so that I can respond to them. And at the same time, since you asked me reads, I gave it. Dont go by your own rulebook. There are people who respond when posed with a question!

691

RED FLAG

- bang was so sold on Spade being scum, but completely buys an unverifiable claim that makes for an excellent fake claim. Why? Because he knew it would simply make it that much easier to lynch him for being negative utility.

When I said I thought he was scum, I did give reasons. When he came up with a claim, I have to consider some possibility of it being true, right? I openly said in #629, that I scumread Spade but also had my doubts originating from 589. And all this, much before he claimed. So yes, I did find some possibility of his claim being correct. Then as I started thinking, I felt its a negative utility so lynching him could be better. Then, again I realized that you are a better lynch for town than Spade.

765,

RED FLAG

there is no pro-town reason to massclaim. Doing so only gives scum a roadmap for their kills.

I didnt know how greater mafia works. in my first game 657, it was precisely the massclaim that gave a scum!me and my partner away. So was just asking people whether its a good idea for this setup. As soon as I realized that claimed roles can not prove or disprove unclaimed roles, I understood the mechanics and shut my mouth. Whats Red Flag in collectively thinking about an idea.

772, where was that skepticism of Spade's claim when he first made it?

I even didnt know what a black goo is. As spade explained it was immune to all roles, I thought why it cant be scum. Now that its clear that its NOT immune to killers, I feel Spade may for all you know could be speaking truth. But since he was my no 1 scum read, I cant just write him off in my mind. So thought of another way to confirm his claim.

804, paints laziness as maliciousness

No! For heaven's sake! I was not painting anyone as malicious there. I was upset that a town!Spade could have easily clarified this technical part before openly claiming. It was town frustration of me, rather than throwing shade on anyone.

Now, I am sure there will be people who will scumread me for writing such a long reply. I am done with defending myself. The town can lynch me if they want. I dont think I am of any value anyway.

I feel we need to lynch Grey just for converting him to town ASAP. And someone with night actions could target Spade and tell us the next day if he is lying. I would also like each one of us to give a reads list with reason, just in case they die at night.

VOTE: Grey

[bangthemafia]

I think scum's agenda is this.
Push for a lynch on grey on the pretext of it being favourable for town. Get him converted to town. Kill him at nighy. Push for a mislynch on spade the next day. This should be easier the next day with grey dead.

@bang if you can clearly explain how exactly a grey lynch is beneficial for town, am willing to support it.

Else i think it is best one of us gets lynched today. Thw flips would help town.

Waht the fuck.

- 1 scum
+ 1 town


I

almost

want to vote you on this post alone.

Bangs 958 is so much worse however.

Voting for grey is the towniest thing anyone could do in this game, and you somehow took that idea and made it scummy. I mean how could you screw that up any worse? You didn't have to "case" grey and explain your reasoning in a gigantic post... hes scum. He needs to be lynched. The end.

Here is how your post SHOULD have went:

VOTE: Grey
/post

Here is how it actually went:

Hey guys, I realize some people are starting to scum read me so I want to appear town, but not too town, so I'm going to "case" the guy everyone already know is scum and explain my vote very clearly, so no one catches on to me at all. Did I do that right? Ok good
VOTE: Grey



VOTE: bang

Did u even read the thread completely. Grey made this "extensive" case on me for which he was waiting for a reply from me. Last reference- post 490. My long post was a point by point rebuttal. My vote for Grey is not a culmination of that post. I said I wanted to vote for Grey when Spade said we should not.

Read my last few posts on page 38.

In any case, just let me know when i m at L-1.

[bangthemafia]

I was not casing Grey. I was defending his case on me

[bangthemafia]

Wait.

Are there any one shot unlynchable roles in any of the factions that can just lead to a similar failed lynch and pass off as saulus thereby becoming conf!town for the remaining game in everyone's eyes?

[bangthemafia]

Go read the wiki instead of expecting everybody to spoon-feed you.

Yes. Read.
Role no 131. Alien One-shot Unlynchable.

Just hoping u were as simple as u came across!!!

[bangthemafia]

Or we all just fell prey to your plans!

[bangthemafia]

I went and checked wiki, simple. Stop throwing shade for no rhyme and reason, ok? Since Grey will not flip, I was thinking whether i shud believe he is 100% conf town

[bangthemafia]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Idea_Mafia

[bangthemafia]

If others also find Spade suspicious, why cant someone of us who has a night action (I dont have any, else I would hav definitely done this) target Spade. If they turn cult, they can reveal this to town since they were originally townie, i assume their loyalty will be with town. If nothing happens to them, we know Spade is a fakeclaiming scum. What do you guys say, please opine.

ARE YOU CRAZY?????

Throwing shade on me and settinge up for day 3 lynch, Spade?
Whats so crazy about what i said? If saulus can play against his wincon, why cant a culted townie?
I did find u scummy, but with ur unverifiable claim, I dont want to mislynch u if u r a town. But also don't want you to be a self proclaimed conf town in case u go to LyLo. Nothing wrong with my idea. Pretty innovative if u think. at least it startled you!!

[bangthemafia]

Wait.

Are there any one shot unlynchable roles in any of the factions that can just lead to a similar failed lynch and pass off as saulus thereby becoming conf!town for the remaining game in everyone's eyes?

I dont think a.town you would have phrased the question in this way.

Haha, really? I thought you sometime back told me that this logic was shit when i said a town!you wont have done so and so.
Spade, are you getting worked up? Afraid your charade is over?

[bangthemafia]

I went and checked wiki, simple. Stop throwing shade for no rhyme and reason, ok? Since Grey will not flip, I was thinking whether i shud believe he is 100% conf town

The only role that's 100% conftown is Innocent Child, but you could have gotten that information without shading me.

I never once suggested anyone treat me like conftown.

Grey, dont worry, just read my ISO. Throughout, I hav mostly believed your claims. Its only that recently I hav learnt a hard lesson not to believe anyone 100%. So was just aecond guessing myself whether there is any minuscule possibility of u setting us up.

[bangthemafia]

I didn't have time to really speak in bang's big ass wall, but I have to say that he came across as townie in what I did read.

Felt I should mention that before the thread is locked in case I don't see tomorrow

Thanks Grey. Really appreciate this. One of us is definitely gonna pop tonight. The remaining one knows where to see. Look into Spade and Alban very carefully if I die tonight

[bangthemafia]

I didnt mean a town!bang. I meant any town memeber. A town member would have asked, 'is there any other role that could be unlynchable like the saulus' and not 'is there any one shot unlynchable'.

Very flimsy ground you are on. Dont worry! We will talk about it day 3 if I survive.

[bangthemafia]

@bang there is a difference between a saulus's wincon ambiguity and a cult players wincon

No there is not. Else mod would hav clearly responded when I asked this clarification. If any night action townie reads my post, they will realize what i m saying

[bangthemafia]

Protect Dave, not me.

I'm just vanilla now

Sadness.

Spade death has to be a vig shot. He was the defacto lynch today.

I wonder why there wasn't a second kill n1 when we lynched scum d1 though. That seems suboptimal, unless dave successfully protected someone.

We've only lost three town to two scum (due to conversion), so we're still in decent shape.

Just goes to show how wrong the townies can be fixated. I was ready to bet my ass that Spade was a scum!

1. Do you mean Spade was town vig shot? If yes, we are quite well off. If not, we are looking at minimum 2 factions. Of 7, in worst case, the alignment has to be 3 townies +2+2. It also adds up to minimum 6 townies (50%) at the start of the day.

2. What are your thoughts on who would have killed Daves. Whom did Dave majorly suspect? Whom did he majorly clear? I will keep both these groups in my suspect list. Same goes for Spade's suspect though i kmow he suspected me too on and off. This is why each player shud hav posted a list of their reads.

3. If i hav to choose only 3 towniest, it would be me, Grey and Alban. So i need to closely look at Gamma, Kop, Vax and Not_Mafia. Minimum of 1 of them and maximum of all of them will be scum. Will iso them soon when i get some time.

VOTE: Vax

Cash me ouuside how bout dat

Giv me reasons or i m voting u.

[bangthemafia]

{Vaxkiller}
{Gamma Emerald, alban}
{Not Mafia, bangthemafia}
{Kop}

Not interested in lynching top two lines. bang looked better after that wall post, but I didn't really have the time to dig into it due to everything that was going on.

Kop, why are you scumreading alban? Specifics, please. Broad generalizations won't do you any favors.

@Grey, and Alban, trust me, if you are town, dont waste your time on me. Scum is in the remaining 4 for sure.

@Grey, what makes you clear Vax, Gamma and Alban? Anything specific?
Also what makes you suspect Kop and NM?

[bangthemafia]

Dave was a doc. So he cud hav been the reason for 1 NK on Night 1 if we hav a multi faction game. Or alien faction not going for a NK. Or our town vig being 1 shot or just deciding against a shoot on day 1.

In any case, if worst town case is 3+2+2 or 3+3+1, does that mean we are in a LyLo right now?

[bangthemafia]

Based only on the discards, all 4- Gamma, Kop, Vax, NM discarded a town role. I feel like only clearing Vaxkiller, as all of the 3 other players discarded an interesting/powerful town role.

[bangthemafia]

Vax is nowhere near being cleared by his discard.

Lover is a loser role. Worse than VT.

Exactly my point. Its so lowly a role that someone could very well have kept VT discarding Lover.

But if a powerful /interesting role was discarded, the kept role either had to be even more powerful/interesting or had to be a scum

[bangthemafia]

All these ho's laughing like something's funny

NM, I asked you reasons for voting Vax. Why dont you respond to that instead of passing stray comments that just make u look more scummy?

Why did u vote for Vax?

[bangthemafia]

Not_Mafia's discard was Evangelistic townie. Thats almost a negative utility townie. So even he might hav gone for VT. I will focus more on Gamma and Kop as of now.

[bangthemafia]

PoE

Talk in English dude. What's PoE?

[bangthemafia]

Ohh gotcha. Process of elimination?

That's a vague answer. How did u eliminate possibility of others being scum? Explain plz

[bangthemafia]

Mostly we are in a LyLo.
@NM, could you post some more than these vague 1 liners? You arent helping either yourself or your team (Town/scum) by this.

All these ho's laughing like something's funny

NM, I asked you reasons for voting Vax. Why dont you respond to that instead of passing stray comments that just make u look more scummy?

Why did u vote for Vax?

PoE

Ohh gotcha. Process of elimination?

That's a vague answer. How did u eliminate possibility of others being scum? Explain plz

Aint nobody gonna catch me

You were nothing til I was on your wagon

[bangthemafia]

@Mod, please prod Gamma.

[bangthemafia]

Snipped. Talking about ongoing games. Instance #2. Very minor offense, but this is a very serious rule on the website. DO. NOT. TALK. ABOUT. ONGOING. GAMES.

~T

[bangthemafia]

Snipped. Talking about ongoing games. Instance #2. Very minor offense, but this is a very serious rule on the website. DO. NOT. TALK. ABOUT. ONGOING. GAMES.

~T

Sorry Mod.
I thought not mentioning game number will be fine. Was just trying to help Kop.
Sorry again.

No worries.

[bangthemafia]

Thank you for letting me out of my cage

- Annie

Welcome Carnelian! You joined the website just today? So whats your experience with Mafia? Did you also enlist for a newbie game? Or playing the greater mafia straightway?

[bangthemafia]

Carnelian promises that Carnelian has lots of experience, though Carnelian is still a bit clueless in some things.

So then come straight to the point. Tell us who you think is scum and why.

[bangthemafia]

Before we start voting for NM, we need a strategy for night and day 4, since some of us may not be around.

VAX, who do u feel are the other scum? I know I m a town, you and Grey hav claimed townies, I also feel Alban is a town. If we hav 3+2+2, or 3+3+1, one of the above 4 is lying. For me, it will be either u or alban.

On the other hand, if we are 4+3, why were there 2 kills on night 2? I think if it was a vig, they must claim right now. Coz it makes us understand the number of factions we are dealing with. What do u feel Grey, Alban, Vax?

Also i wanna check if watcher is always a townie in this setup

[bangthemafia]

Fuck! There is a werewolf watcher listed in the roles!!!

[bangthemafia]

@Alban, Grey, you guys online?

If NM is speaking truth, we have 3+3+1 now. That only means-
if alban is town, 3 werewolves (vax, kop, gamma slot), 1 scum (Not mafia)
If vax is town watcher, alban replaces him in the above configuration.

2 possibilities-
Lynching NM will ensure that there wont b 2 kills assuming we dont have a vig. But night 3 will start with 3+3. So scum will kill a townie, and win with 2+3.

Lynching Vax will mean night 3 starting as 3+2+1.
Even in the best scenario, where NM kills a werewolf and a townie is killed by werewolves, we start day 4 with 2+1+1. It is a sure loss for town as the surviving scum will win at night 4.
In worst scenario, both factions kill a townie, so day 4 starts with 1+2+1, its town loss.
In another scenario, on night 3, NM kills a wolf, wolves kill NM. So we start day 4 as 3+1. Thats the only town win situation, and so wolves will NOT kill NM but go for town on night 3.

So what do u guys think?

My suggestion-
1. Dont hurry for this lynch. Lets think carefully.
2. Vax, please claim completely.
3. If there is a town Vig, come out instantly coz then town has lot of possibilities.
4. I think its time for a complete claim.

What do u guys say?

[bangthemafia]

Grey, I see your reasoning.

Why I suggested Vig claim was this-
Presence of town Vig almost surely tells us we hav only 1 killing scum faction.
Absence means 2 factions.
If there are 2 factions, thats the precise reason town has still not lost. The moment we lynch NM, if he is speaking truth, we will eliminate 1 faction- we will be helping the other faction by doing their job for them through our lynch.
So I thought that if there are 2 factions, it will help to lynch in the faction other than NM.

But I know I am thinking of worst case where we hav 4+3 and a vig OR 3+3+1. But its perfectly possible that we hav the best case where just 1 faction is there with only 1 or 2 scum left. And NM is trying hard to build suspicion among townies to try desperately not get lynched.

[bangthemafia]

WTF. Tell us whom u investigated in Night 1 and Night 2?

Vax, tell us, whom did you watch on night 1?

@Grey, Alban, what are your thoughts?

[bangthemafia]

And what result you got on me?

[bangthemafia]

@Mod, sorry to ask this question. But I couldnt find the answer in your first page rules or the wiki for this setup.
Can mafia/werewolves use their night power action and the factional kill simultaneously?

[bangthemafia]

@Mod, sorry to ask this question. But I couldnt find the answer in your first page rules or the wiki for this setup.
Can mafia/werewolves use their night power action and the factional kill simultaneously?

[bangthemafia]

Hmm. I ISOed Vax with NM. It does appear that NM thought of claiming Mafia Seer AFTER Vax outed him. Though NM voted for Vax almost as soon as day started, there was no explanation given on own or when asked for. Just before claiming Seer, NM also says "I am pretty sure Vax is wolf".

But something else is bothering me too about this Vax-NM claims. Will try to re-read tomorrow and put a finger on what.

[bangthemafia]

I am Mafia,but Charloux was my only partner, I'm pretty Vax is wolf and probably has a partner, if we lynch Vax you can tell me who to NK

SO he comes out here and just syas he is mafia... but he is only "pretty (sure?) im a wolf". If you were a seer wouldn't you be absolutely?

Unless he was saying - I'm Pretty (referring to himself) and Vax is a wolf.

LOLL

[bangthemafia]

Presence of town Vig almost surely tells us we hav only 1 killing scum faction.
Absence means 2 factions.

The Spade kill was a vig kill. End of story.

Scum would not have removed a free mislynch from the game.

Scum don't want cult spreading either

True! Important point

[bangthemafia]

Kop, I know where you come from! Just trust me, I am town!!

[bangthemafia]

Why do people enrol for games that they dont have time for?

@alban, Carnelian, wake up and start posting.

Before we start voting for NM, can everyone please post their reads list and recommendation for Vig kill if we have a Vig and it was not one-shot Vig? This will help after further flips happen. I am there are some PRs that need some method to convey their night knowledge without coming out in open.

[bangthemafia]

As of now, my reads are-
Towns- Grey > Alban = Vax
Null- Carnelian, Kop
Scum- NM

I am fine lynching NM.

Feel if there is a Vig with shooting power left, they shoot whoever they find scummier between Carnelian (Gamma slot) and Kop.

Vax, NM, Kop, Grey, please post your reads too!

[bangthemafia]

Why do people enrol for games that they dont have time for?

@alban, Carnelian, wake up and start posting.

Before we start voting for NM, can everyone please post their reads list and recommendation for Vig kill if we have a Vig and it was not one-shot Vig? This will help after further flips happen. I am sure there are some PRs that need some method to convey their night knowledge without coming out in open.

EBWOP

[bangthemafia]

Also, if there is a vig between Kop/Carnelian, I think it's obvious that one needs to vig the other tonight and claim tomorrow.

(If someone besides one of those two is vig, shoot one of those two but DO NOT claim immediately tomorrow)

Completely agree. Will vote for NM but only after everyone posts their reads.

[bangthemafia]

ROFL!!!

[bangthemafia]

My bad. I didnt realize that none will ever target Spade on their own. Was thinking of weird roles like redirector, bus driver etc that might make someone unknowingly target Goo. And felt that NM's arguement that "even scum wont want accidental culting of towwnies" held weight. I can see all these contradictory posts creating a scumvibe. But I feel I was overanalyzing yesterday with all my paranioa about there being a 2nd faction in this game. I saw your point- found scum, lynch them without delay. For all we know we could just win by this one lynch. If there is a 2nd faction, will deal with it next day.

Right now, I am just getting bored waiting for everyone's reads.

[bangthemafia]

Whoa.

Like a brick, it dawned on me.

If NM is wanting to stop werewolves from winning, it might actually be worth letting him live

one

night.

Here's what I'm thinking...

Town vig claims..

Vig and NM are assigned two names to shoot so there is no doubling up on the same player.

We lynch Vaxkiller.


Thoughts?

Vig claim brings out the Vig in open. What if NM doesn't follow consensus OR the targets assigned to each of the 2 turn out to be town? Plus if there is a 2nd faction, they may kill Vig or some other town. So we may get upto 3 town kills at night.

By the way, what happened to you? When I discussed this possibility, you were completely sold out that till now there is nothing to suggest that there are 2 factions.

[bangthemafia]

Before we start voting for NM, we need a strategy for night and day 4, since some of us may not be around.

VAX, who do u feel are the other scum? I know I m a town, you and Grey hav claimed townies, I also feel Alban is a town. If we hav 3+2+2, or 3+3+1, one of the above 4 is lying. For me, it will be either u or alban.

On the other hand, if we are 4+3, why were there 2 kills on night 2? I think if it was a vig, they must claim right now. Coz it makes us understand the number of factions we are dealing with. What do u feel Grey, Alban, Vax?

Also i wanna check if watcher is always a townie in this setup

Fuck! There is a werewolf watcher listed in the roles!!!

@Alban, Grey, you guys online?

If NM is speaking truth, we have 3+3+1 now. That only means-
if alban is town, 3 werewolves (vax, kop, gamma slot), 1 scum (Not mafia)
If vax is town watcher, alban replaces him in the above configuration.

2 possibilities-
Lynching NM will ensure that there wont b 2 kills assuming we dont have a vig. But night 3 will start with 3+3. So scum will kill a townie, and win with 2+3.

Lynching Vax will mean night 3 starting as 3+2+1.
Even in the best scenario, where NM kills a werewolf and a townie is killed by werewolves, we start day 4 with 2+1+1. It is a sure loss for town as the surviving scum will win at night 4.
In worst scenario, both factions kill a townie, so day 4 starts with 1+2+1, its town loss.
In another scenario, on night 3, NM kills a wolf, wolves kill NM. So we start day 4 as 3+1. Thats the only town win situation, and so wolves will NOT kill NM but go for town on night 3.

So what do u guys think?

My suggestion-
1. Dont hurry for this lynch. Lets think carefully.
2. Vax, please claim completely.
3. If there is a town Vig, come out instantly coz then town has lot of possibilities.
4. I think its time for a complete claim.

What do u guys say?

I am Mafia,but Charloux was my only partner, I'm pretty Vax is wolf and probably has a partner, if we lynch Vax you can tell me who to NK

Lol no.

Vax MIGHT be a wolf. You're CLAIMED mafia.

Find scum, Lynch scum.

You're the only acceptable lynch today. If you're the last mafia, that's your tough luck.

Town vig should NOT claim here.

There is NO reason to think they should. It accomplishes no town goals when we already have a confirmed scum lynch.

Even speculating as to who they are is antitown.

Drop the vig talk. Don't do scum's job for them.

Grey, I see your reasoning.

Why I suggested Vig claim was this-
Presence of town Vig almost surely tells us we hav only 1 killing scum faction.
Absence means 2 factions.
If there are 2 factions, thats the precise reason town has still not lost. The moment we lynch NM, if he is speaking truth, we will eliminate 1 faction- we will be helping the other faction by doing their job for them through our lynch.
So I thought that if there are 2 factions, it will help to lynch in the faction other than NM.

But I know I am thinking of worst case where we hav 4+3 and a vig OR 3+3+1. But its perfectly possible that we hav the best case where just 1 faction is there with only 1 or 2 scum left. And NM is trying hard to build suspicion among townies to try desperately not get lynched.

Presence of town Vig almost surely tells us we hav only 1 killing scum faction.
Absence means 2 factions.

The Spade kill was a vig kill. End of story.

Scum would not have removed a free mislynch from the game.

The moment we lynch NM, if he is speaking truth, we will eliminate 1 faction- we will be helping the other faction by doing their job for them through our lynch.

What has happened in this game to suggest a second scum faction?

Nothing whatsoever.

NM is scaremongering.

What happened, Grey? You convinced me and then this turnaround?

[bangthemafia]

@NM
@Kop
@Carnel
@Alban

Your reads please!!!

[bangthemafia]

Our Mod needs prodding!

@Mod, you there?

@Kop, what are you getting at?

[bangthemafia]

Oh yeah, if Charl was the only member and he was dead, how did NM kill and investigate the same night. Right? But I guess, when you are the only member left, you can perform both.

[bangthemafia]

But for all you know, NM might be bargaining to keep his partner hidden. So we cant rule out one more scum. My only concern is that if both Vax and NM are rightly telling their night results, we have 2 factions. Right now, just because Grey was this superconfident that Spade kill cant be scum's and has to be Vig's, I am forced to think that Vax is telling the truth and NM is lying.

[bangthemafia]

Oh yeah, if Charl was the only member and he was dead, how did NM kill and investigate the same night. Right? But I guess, when you are the only member left, you can perform both.

Kop, did you have something else too in mind?

[bangthemafia]

@NM
@Kop
@Carnel
@Alban

Your reads please!!!

@Kop, what did u think of yesterday?

[bangthemafia]

Mostly Carnel / Gamma slot seems to have again headed for replacement.

@Kop, wanna put down your reads? And your thoughts about the question you asked Mod?

[bangthemafia]

Wait.

Let everyone post their reads

[bangthemafia]

I am Carnelian, here for human race
Wisdom floats from my personage in outer space
I am the one and only, though with others that's not the case
I will defeat you wielding my mace!

My read is such that NM is the scum
So I will hit him in his bum
Then I will go and chew gum
While striking my trusty drum

VOTE: NM, sum for sum
Let's go drinking rum
And playing like it is a bellum
And then we will hum

Hunhh!! As if lurkers werent enough! We hav to deal with cryptic poetries now??

[bangthemafia]

Bill and Jolie have never met
They are like two hummingbirds, who have yet
To get to know each other, but when all is set
They'll be a couple, on that I am willing to bet

You scumread Bill and Jolie???

Hav you read the whole game till now? Giv us your reads!!

@Kop your reads please.

By the way, NM is at L-1. Before someone hammers him, lets have everyone's reads and decide upon a strategy.

My suggestion is same as earlier- Vig should shoot between Kop and Carnel. If one of them is Vig, shoot the other.

[bangthemafia]

Not_Mafia has been lynched, he was a

Mafia Doctor.

The moon was full, howls could be heard from miles away. The three wolves struck ferociously and took out their remaining prey to seize victory.

alban, the

Mafia Goon

, has been endgamed.

bangthemafia, the

FBI Agent

, has been endgamed.

-Grey-, the

Judas

, has been endgamed.

Which leaves our three victorious wolves. Congratulations to:

Carnelian, the

Werewolf 1-Shot Bulletproof

Kop, the

Werewolf Roleblocker

Vaxkiller, the

Werewolf

You guys fulfilled your win-condition and achieved victory!

Thank you for playing all of you, thanks to all the replacements, thanks to Secret Agent Jin for giving us the idea to mod this even though he site flaked. And most of all, big thanks to my co-mod Aristophanes. I definitely would not have been able to mod this solo. PT's to be released in a bit. Mafia and Wolves if you want to omit anything from your PT you will have 48 hours to say such otherwise I will release it to the public!

Mod PT
Dead PT
Wolf PT (COMING SOON TO A STORE NEAR YOU!!)
Mafia PT(COMING SOON TO A STORE NEAR YOU!!)

D1 actions:

Charloux

dayvigges

RadiantCowbells

(success)

Charloux

is lynched

N1 actions:

davesaz

saves

-Grey-

(Success!)

Lowell

bloodhounds

Kop

(not town, killed)

bangthemafia

FBIs

Spade_Ace

(blocked)

alban

kills

-Grey-

(Failure)

Not_Mafia

saves

alban

Kop

blocks

bangthemafia

Vaxkiller

kills

Lowell

D2 actions:

-Grey-

is lynched, and converts to

Mafia.

N2 actions:

davesaz

protects

-Grey-

(blocked)

bangthemafia

FBIs

Kop

(not SK)

Not_Mafia

kills

davesaz

Not_Mafia

saves

-Grey-

Vaxkiller

kills

Spade_Ace

Kop

blocks

davesaz

D3 actions:

Not_Mafia

is lynched,

werewolves

achieve victory

Damn!!!

1. SO I was the only surviving townie amongst the 7. That means whichever way I would have played, it was a town loss. Even if we went for a no lynch on 2 successive days, and both factions killed one of each on the 2 successive nights, we would have gone into day 5 as 1+1+1, so it would be a town loss for sure!

2. So what hurt the town most? Grey's day 2 lynch conversion to mafia and Spade and Daves' kills on night 2 pushed town into 3+3+1 from which we could never recover.

3. My reads are so horrible!!! I was completely pocketed by Grey!

Note1 to myself- Never ever ever trust anyone!

4. Spade, sorry darling for suspecting and tunnelling on you so much! And giving such a free clear chit to alban. It just turned the exact opposite. But there was a reason for my tunnelling. Since I was blocked on Night 1, I thought why would the players I am playing for the first time block me? Didnt make sense. (I should have known Kop/Gamma could also have blocked me) So I thought one of you or alban had blocked me. Thats why I said this-

I didn't have time to really speak in bang's big ass wall, but I have to say that he came across as townie in what I did read.

Felt I should mention that before the thread is locked in case I don't see tomorrow

Thanks Grey. Really appreciate this. One of us is definitely gonna pop tonight. The remaining one knows where to see. Look into Spade and Alban very carefully if I die tonight

@Spade, but then your dramatic reveal of wild card and then alban's "this is just not spade" fuelled my paranoia about you. Imagine I was so sold out to you being scum that I was ready to target you to be able to tell that YOU ARE NOT BLACK GOO! When Grey and others said, you can get modkilled for that, I dropped it. But I was so sold out to alban being a town that even when you flipped green, I didnt suspect him as the scum who blocked me night 1, but thought he could be a town JK who JKed me.

Note2 to myself- Never ever trust your reads on alban and spade!

5. By the way, I am happy that Kop blocked me, else I would have been culted. Also, happy that I suspected the right guy Night 2. Just that FBI agent is not very useful role as it only detects SK.

6. @Grey, I was right on track about 2 factions and 3+3+1 deduction. But then you were so confident that Spade kill has to Vig's and there was nothing to suggest we had 2 factions, that I think I bought your views there. I shouldnt have. By the way, why did you say that? Because NM was your scumbuddy. So your supporting him and getting Vax lynched could sway the results in your favour. Or did you really feel that NM was bluffing and there was no other faction in the game?

7.Most importantly, how stupid of all of us to believe Grey's Saulus claim! I went back and checked. Gamma did say this-

Hm
In offsite games it's common for Judas to claim Saulus, but given the circumstances and site meta being different I trust Grey.

Even Spade, me, and even alban did express few initial hesitations to believe his claim. Read pages 28-30. Grey basically followed offense is the best defense. As alban rightly said, with such players, others just get entangled in responding to them rather than questioning them.

Note3 to myself- Never ever fall prey to this aggressive approach

8.

Lastly I did breadcrumb in post 341!

I once called Grey "an idiot" when he wrote a loooong post with those RED FLAGS to incriminate me, because he went so much into my posts but didnot notice my breadcrumbing-

mmmm Alban feels like he's backpedaling on page 7

Sorry but can you explain what is backpedalling?

All caught up.
Questions/FOSes (questions because some of these feel like misunderstandings)
RC - Why are you determined to lynch Not Mafia?
alban - can you explain your thought process on page 7?
bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?
Vax - explain your unvote in the post I quoted.

I didnt have any thought out motive that I wanted to accomplish. I am just not used to roleclaims in people's first posts on the 1st page. And this guy comes out with not only his own but 2 others' roleclaims. SO my intuitive reaction was WTF!

Not super familiar (all ongoing) but regardless of meta, RC's actions are

extremely

scummy.

NM is towny
prob a tier higher than Charles/Dave

Dave is a bit towny too

Walk me through your cases please. Whats scummy about RC, and whats towny about NM, Dave, Charl?

I

remember my Scumpartner!Charl from 657 and his style was the same there.

M

ostly posting stuff just to stay in picture and not get called a lurker.

F

air enough that you have a scum lean on me.

B

ut would also appreciate some reasons for scumreading me apart from my reaction to Grey's fake roleclaim.

I

nitially I got surprised that someone is claiming on page 1.

A

lso his aggressive style and tunneling on spade for wildcard.

G

ood for him maybe, but usually such aggression leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

E

ven then, after he turned down RC's seemingly logical suggestion to lynch NM (I would, maybe, have fallen for that), I started getting town vibes from him.

N

M, on the other hand, has not explained much.

T

own would initially start getting agitated for being suspected before they give up and get frustrated, in my opinion. Still, he was the only one who openly said that Grey's push on me was shitty and acknowledged my newness. You may call it buddying but I give him some town points for that!

So as of now, my llist is-
Strong town read- Grey, Gamma
Null to town read- Vaxkiller
Null- Alban, Kop, Charl, SAJ, Spade, NM (upgraded here from below)
Null to scum lean- Culted, RC

Whenever I saw someone suspecting me, I just kept telling, please believe me, I am a town. Because I wanted to keep this for the last day if there be one.

That faction won which was the least active, and received constant prods useless.

It was so obvious kop and gamma were scums, especially on day 3. I wish I was a townie. Being a scum, I couldn't be too vocal about it.

Why not? Pointing out scum will always give you more town cred. Plus you would have reduced your competitor faction.

Anyway, thanks a ton to all of you, the players, the mods. This was my first ever Greater Mafia and I thoroughly enjoyed the unpredictability!

[bangthemafia]

Uggghhh....grey, you judas....nice play...

@aristodog i understand you had to go for judgment calls regarding blackgoo. But, next time i think it would be better to convert anyone who targets/kills goo. Else that role becomes completely negative for town. Town didnt stand a chance this game having Judas with them too.

Alban, your tunnelling on me was same as the last time u were scum. Should have put more pressure on you.

Agree Spade, this setup was quite heavily biased against town. But I guess with alignment changes, its bound to be that way and role madness games do not assure explicit balance.

Dont agree about alban's tunnelling. To me, he came across as sincerely suspecting you, probably because I also suspected that.

But I think 1 major clue that I completely missed was that mainly on day 1 and to some extent on day 2, since mafia did not know about judas, and vice versa, alban was almost at loggerheads with Grey. Both of them suspected each other, made some mild personal attacks on playstyle etc etc. But that was completely absent on day 3. Till day 2 end, I had this in back of my mind that Saulus claim could be a false one by a judas, and that I need to carefully look into change in dynamics. But on day 3, shocked by your flip and the NM - Vax double claims, I just forgot about it. Not that it would have been of any help. Coz the damage was already done before day 3 even started!!!

[bangthemafia]

Bang, I was going to claim JK, if it came to that

About your point about believing Grey: Till day 2, I was sure that Grey would be our lynch target on day 3, since one could never verify his claim. I was gonna pitch it to the city. On night 2, however, there was a surprise entry to the Scum PT, guess who

I was so sure that you guys will catch my U-turn regarding Grey. I was completely antagonistic till day 2, and ignored him on day 3. But thankfully I wasn't caught. It would have been difficult for me to explain that, which is where JK claim (suggested by Grey) would have been useful. I was planning to claim that both nights, I JK'd Grey.

By day 3 start, the damage was already done. It was just a race between the villains! Town had already lost with Grey, Spade, Dave lost and a traitor added to your faction!!

[bangthemafia]

What beats me is why you guys gave up so easily? Grey and alban cud hav persuaded people not to lynch NM. And NM self hammered!!! U guys were equal (3:3) on day 3!!

[bangthemafia]

@Dave,
In dead PT, your post #22 reads-

Sorry Lowell, I didn't read your "on me" as investigative or I would have doc'd you.
Doc'd Grey both nights

I've gotta do better at ignoring being scumread when I'm a PR. I keep forgetting that it's what I want in that situation

Can you please explain? Why would you as PR want to be scumread? Is it so that scum feel u r a good lynchbait and don't NK you?

Didnt anyone from scum faction (or even town) notice my breadcrumbing?

[bangthemafia]

Vax, sounds too much! I mean one needs some predictability right? Else it robs the fun out!!

[bangthemafia]

A game like worst idea could be fun if we stop thinking about the wincon. Just playing for the sake of fun.

To each their own. Not my cup of tea! I need some purpose/win con towards which I progress! My satiety for chaotic cross killings and protections is already over with this game!!

[bangthemafia]

@By the way, mod, the Mafia and Werewolves PTs are still inaccessible!

[bangthemafia]

Its much beyond 48 hours. None of the PTs are yet available. Please open them before people either lose interest or forget about this game

[bangthemafia]

Hilarious!! Finished reading Mafia PT just now.

What a conspiring mafia team- Charl wanted to kill alban to look obvtown and thereafter NM would claim having saved Charl.

Had Charl been alive, mafia would have won on Day2 end with Grey's lynch

Look at NM and how active he was on mafia PT. Had he been even half active on main game thread, he would have been townread!

Alban, planning 1 shot commuter claim, wow!

Alban and Charl, next game I am playing with you, rest assured I wont be able to town read you!!

[bangthemafia]

Wow! Finished Werewolves too!

With 3+3+1, Any one faction just needed my vote to lynch one member from the other faction and win. I was thinking initially that lynching the lone mafia (NM) will suddenly sway the numbers in the favour of werewolves, so was suggesting a lynch amongst vax, kop, gamma. I think that was the time, mafia should have supported me without making it obvious and they had a cakewalk. Instead, Grey sticking to his found scum, lynch them" cost mafia very dearly. Plus NM self hammering before Grey could pretend a change of heart!!

Well played everyone! Thanks to all of you and the moderators.

Learned a lot of lessons!!!