Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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There's no reason to state your vote is RVS in the second post of the whole thread.In post 11, alban wrote:In post 6, FancyPants wrote:VOTE: alban
For explicitly stating his vote was RVS, lynch immediately please.
Unless you're hyper paranoid about how you're being read.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Back from my VLA.
Is it my responsibility to question everyone who town reads me? Sounds exhausting and a watse of time, especially since I know he's right.In post 86, texcat wrote:VOTE: FancyPants
It was odd that Hark called him town off one or two posts. But even odder to me that Fancy didn't question it.
Also I'm not wild about FireAssasin's entry and leap onto the Alban wagon without anything else. But I'm willing to give him another post.
Now do I give him town cred for town reading me? Not at all, scum can town read just as easily, town reading someone is pretty NAI, at least until the bigger picture is revealed.
As for Alban, did a quick Meta recap on all his RVS votes, turns out he only contributed to the RVS on one other occasion here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66377
Where he does explicitly state the vote is an RVS vote. That said he also was scum so...
Probably worth keeping the vote here for now.
@Gamma, explain 89 please?
@Alban, why do you feel the need to explicitly state RVS vote?-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Essentially you're voting for me because I'm failing to scum hunt in the exact way you'd like me to, correct?In post 93, texcat wrote:
If you are town, it is your responsibility to scum hunt. I think that questioning town reads is a good way to do that. I might agree that town reading someone is pretty NAI, but think that's why it's important to try to see why the town read. The motive and thoughts and reasoning behind the town read are more likely AI.In post 92, FancyPants wrote: Is it my responsibility to question everyone who town reads me? Sounds exhausting and a watse of time, especially since I know he's right.
Now do I give him town cred for town reading me? Not at all, scum can town read just as easily, town reading someone is pretty NAI, at least until the bigger picture is revealed.
Seems pretty weak.
If Alban is town I'm liking Gamma or Texcat for scum. If they know alban is town they are looking for a reason to not be on that wagon, if alban is scum that doesn't apply however. I don't think Alban's buddies would so obviously try to divert his wagon.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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No, I meant you were trying to maximize the bussing potential of any of Alban's scum buddies, if they were wavering as to whether or not to bus.In post 120, Harkonnen97 wrote:
^In post 119, eagerSnake wrote:Gamma always votes like he's been smoking crack don't worry
translated version of this post ^In post 117, FancyPants wrote:Harks comment sounded like he was trying to maximise potential bussing on Alban.
"Hark is trying to distance from the idea that he is scum pushing for the lynch of town!alban"
did i got that right?
if so - my comment didnt sound like that at all.
It's a but flippant but I didn't find it scummy, not liking hark for scum in general, in my limited experienced people who play loose rather than careful tend to be town more often than not.
I'm kind of liking textcat for scum. Alban still owes us a few answers.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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@Alban, not everyone plays the same way.
Also people did ask you questions, I'm pretty sure you've been asked two, one was from me.
Anyway I don't think Alban is scum, some genuine disgust there I reckon.
UNVOTE:
Texcat though.
VOTE: Vote : Texcat
Didn't want to get his hands dirty on the Alban wagon, but needed to look active.
Eager doesn't seem quite as Eager as last game.
Sgz sneaking under the radar.
Persephone very non-commital, could be scared newb-scum.
Scum are to be found in the above, mark my words.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Pretty good timing that.In post 131, persephone325 wrote:I still feel suspicion towards FancyPants and Hark for the reason I stated before. Just so I don't have a no-vote on my record, I'm gonna VOTE: Hark. And there's still time left in the voting, so I can change it later if need be.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I think you need to understand that you are the only one in this game who can be sure you are town.In post 134, alban wrote:[quote="In post 130,
Surprising how you completely disregarded from questioning those players who voted for me: Harkonnen, Yuria, Fire Assassin. Are you saying that players on my wagon can't be mafia? Thoughts on them?
Being on your therefore isn't inherently scummy, even if we are all wrong, being wrong isn't scummy.
Building a wagon on someone and building the day up from the pieces seems like a common opening to a game. Hark, Yuria, could be scum but I see both of them actually trying to game-solve (albeit in their own way), which can't be said of anyone I've mentioned.
Fire Cat is null for me.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Explain please?In post 160, eagerSnake wrote:I think Gamma is scum-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Firstly I think we should hustle towards a lynch, 5 days with a weekend in between is really not a lot of time.
Now for a quick catch up, going over my thoughts on everybody in no particular order.
I think theAlbanis probably town -
Some good paranoia in this line, I don't necessarily agree with the logic but I can see the town thought process.In post 125, alban wrote: 4. Most importantly, in a game where you need 7 to lynch me, 5 of you are currently voting against me. What's the likelihood that half of the players have formed an opinion against a player so quickly? What is the voted player likely to be in the case? Will the consensus happen so quickly if I were mafia?
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Don't like this post byPersephone131, seem more interested in not looking like scum rather than lynching scum.
I haven't really likedTextcatworrying over people's town reads (86 and 102), it feels scummy and counter productive. Nothing wrong with town-reading, but I feel scum want the potential pool of suspects to remain as large as possible.
However this post:
Is interesting, I think fearing being tied to someone is a very townie response, townies don't know who is scum and therefore don't want to be tied to anyone. In fact there is an advantage for scum cat to be tied to town Yuria.In post 237, texcat wrote:
And when did you quit beating your wife?In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:who else beside yuria is ur scumbuddy texie ?
Are you trying to tie me to Yuria? Why?
Therefore I come to the conclusion that textcat and yuria are scum together, or neither are scum (more likely at this stage).
Harkis probably town but that whole scum claiming business is pretty annoying and anti-town. Do you get Nk'ed early in games often?
Yuriaseems to be game-solving for me, but I can see her potentially fooling me.
Gammais pretty null, struggling to get a read, why do you town read textcat gamma?
NJACis a town lean but has collectively said very little.
I''m town reading bothEagerandFire Assasinfor similar reasons (that basically boils down to a IDGAF attitude).
That leaves the lurkers of Kop, Sgz and Persephone.
I can definitely see two scum in those three.
I kinda like Persephone because of 131. I can live with Kop as well.
For now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persephone
Look at her ISO, I could definitely see her being newb-scum who is unable to play due to not knowing how to manufacture reads.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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All the better to vote Persephone.In post 283, Harkonnen97 wrote:all 3 scum are doing a good job of laying low so far btw
so gj on that-
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In post 177, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Probably texcat.In post 175, eagerSnake wrote:Gamma who is your hardest tr?-
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Based on?In post 291, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also, I'd probably lynch FA or FancyPants rn.
Are you being deliberately obtuse because I really think we have enough of that this game.-
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*Reason textcat listed.In post 302, Gamma Emerald wrote:
You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.In post 301, FancyPants wrote:Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?
It was one thing - the fact that I didn't comment on Hark's town read of me on the first page.
We had an exchange about this, but essentially I didn't think it was worth commenting on.
As for FA do you think this post (140 )is more likely to come from scum, and if so why?
Also you voted for Hark and Eager as your last two votes, when did they become less scummy than FA and I in your eyes?-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I still don't get it, please clarify.In post 306, Kop wrote:
Not fancypants, I meant the Fire Assassin point you made.In post 305, Kop wrote:
Fancy Pants your point I disagree with.In post 302, Gamma Emerald wrote:
You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.In post 301, FancyPants wrote:Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?
A few have suspected Texcat along with myself, but we aren't seeming to gain any real info, and with a flip, we can draw associations and actually get some serious information that we can draw on. By going around in circles on day one we aren't going to gain the information that can be used to crack the game, yes we can draw conclusions/associations, buddying, who suspected who, who town read who, etc etc, we aren't going to build on that unless we get a flip and get night actions out of the way where we start putting the dots together.
Yes it may seemed rushing now because we have 5 days left, but we have a weekend in between that, and I'm not overly active on a weekend, and I'm sure that could count towards others too.
The reason why I have a slight scum read on yourself is simply because of my reasons to disagreeing with some of your posts. And your constant changing, it seems your all over the place. Call it gut.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Why specifically those two? Why not both? Why not neither?In post 338, Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah at least one of FA and alban is scum.-
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Because I'm struggling to follow your logic this game, and I think you're scummy.In post 354, Gamma Emerald wrote:Don't know why you're asking me specifically but sure I'll try.-
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@Gamma this is mostly what confuses me.
Earlier you voted Hark, tried to convince people to follow you, even reaffirmed your vote for Hark.
Now we've gotten to the point where:
Throwing shade at Hark is apparently scummy.In post 342, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I said at least one, and because of their throwing shade at Hark in unison. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they both flipped scum.In post 341, FancyPants wrote:
Why specifically those two? Why not both? Why not neither?In post 338, Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah at least one of FA and alban is scum.
This isn't the first time you've shown inconsistencies in your thought process's or co0mpletely changed your mind about something.
Anyway I'll let you answer about Fire Assassin.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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OK well clearly there is a difference between asking people to vote for someone, and throwing shade, will you explain the difference to me?
Also you mentioned you'd explain why Fire Assassin is scummy?-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.
Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.
This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.-
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For what it's worth I don't agree with the FA case.
I don't think and have never thought OMGUS is scummy.
As for wanting an explanation for why reads change I think it's perfectly logical to want an explanation for a change in position.
The rest is for "throwing shade" and I'm not sure of the difference between throwing shade, and a regular accusation.
If no-one is keen for a persephone or similar lynch, I could live with textcat. I wanna here from everyone else first.-
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UNVOTE:In post 441, Harkonnen97 wrote:VOTE: NJAC
i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.
VOTE: NJAC
Yep.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I like your paranoia Alban, but that looks pretty consistent to me. I think you're reading this:
Backwards.In post 253, Harkonnen97 wrote:{FancyPants}
{Gamma Emerald, Fire Assassin, eagerSnake}
{Kop, texcat, Sgz13, persephone325}
{Yuria}
{alban, NJAC}-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I gave my latest scum pool here:
NJAC makes sense, he'll do.In post 360, FancyPants wrote:Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.
Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.
This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.-
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The problem with Persephone is that she appears to be such a raw newb, it's hard to know if she's just scum trying to stay under the radar or just doesn't know how to play effectively.In post 461, alban wrote:
If you still have nothing more on NJAC as compared to the other 4, shouldn't you think whose lynch gives the city max info?In post 457, FancyPants wrote:I gave my latest scum pool here:
NJAC makes sense, he'll do.In post 360, FancyPants wrote:Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.
Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.
This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.
Going by interactions and content, it should be Kop > Farside > Persephone > NJAC in the descending order.
If I were you, I will keep Gamma at the top.
Their sizeable interaction pool gives me more to analyse even if they are wrongly lynched.
NJAC has hardly participated in the game. Sure he can be lying low, but if he flips town, his lynching doesn't give any info to me. Does it to you?
The problem with the Sgz slot is that he appeared to just have no time in general as opposed to actively lurking and using inactivity to his advantage.
I would be just as happy with a Kop lynch.
So NJAC is a good option, ideally the Vig takes care of Kop.-
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Why?In post 539, MiniDeathStar wrote:Oh forgot to add, if NJAC does indeed get lunched today and turns out to be town, the scum-meter on farside and Gamma grows exponentially. Just putting that out there.-
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Maybe. Town could just have been wrong in that scenario though. I would be more interested in the people who "knew" the NJAC wagon was a bad one, he hasn't done anything that screams town in my estimation.In post 542, MiniDeathStar wrote:Because he's an easy lynch and they are the ones who made it happen. Harkonnen drove the wagon, but they are the ones who gave it momentum. Also they never had strong suspicions on him, they only hopped on the lynch once a universal town read invited people to do it. I guess they thought they can try to shift the blame onto Hark tomorrow, and claim how scummy NJAC was and how they were all doing us a favour.
(Again, this is only if NJAC is town. If he's scum, then I don't know.)
@Eager, I would appreciate it if you felt like explaining your Kop vote.
Additionally do you have a few likely scum reads, other than Kop?
@Persephone, if you were absolutely forced to kill someone this second, who would it be and why?-
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Process of elimination through town reads and I see no genuine interest in hunting scum at all.In post 579, NJAC wrote:
You're doing a good job. I'm trying to understand the "cases" on me to defend myself, but I still don't see them.In post 460, alban wrote:And suddenly five people were ready to vote for NJAC?
That was like a quicksand.
I hope I am not defending NJAC wrongly. And doing his job for him.
NJAC where are you? Start defending yourself
You were perfectly happy to keep quiet while the town flailed, pretty scummy behaviour.-
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All this paranoia about how quickly the wagon formed is dumb.
I believe there were only 4 votes on NJAC at any given time, and I see no reason why scum would want to power lynch "town-NJAC".
Scum are far more careful when hopping on to a town wagon, where as townies don't know the wagon is bad and therefore are more inclined to hop on.
This conspiracy that the NJAC wagon is some sort of planned scum team mis-lynch doesn't make any sense if you think about it from all the perspectives.-
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My problem with Gamma is that he's so consistently inconsistent that it makes him hard to read.
That said he kindafeelstown, meaning he does care about scum hunting in his own way.
Basically I disagree with him but I see town intent there. I'm struggling to come to terms with scum-gamma that has constructed all these elaborate theories as well as town and scum reads.
Gamma just being a VI feels correct.-
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Yeah, I have to say this is a stretch.In post 671, Harkonnen97 wrote:this is some epic bussing lol
i think if NJAC flips scum, the scumteam is {NJAC, Gamma, Farside}-
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Hmmm Gama maybe, you don't get credit for any of the others.In post 692, farside22 wrote:
Says what?In post 664, FancyPants wrote:Farside is a minor scum read, her scum reads seem pretty convinient.
Would you mind posting that Gamma scum game?
No seriously tell me what Crack your selling.
Gamma scum read when no one had one?
Kop scum read when no one has one.
Njac and perseph scum reads that no one was pushing till I replaced?
What game are you reading?
Yuria pushed Kop before you replaced in and I have repeatedly stated I'd be OK with his lynch
NJAC was kind of a collective decision and you didn't exactly seem the most decisive, Hark had to bully you.
As for Persephone I wanted him lynched before you replaced in as well.
I've been following the game closely. Are you?-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I'm going to put this on hold for the next 12 hours, I want some people to weigh in.In post 699, NJAC wrote:
You didn't answer my question:In post 691, FancyPants wrote:This is me calling Persephone scum now so I can brag about it at the end of the game.
In other news I'm really not sold on Farside.
Am I scummier than Farside in your eyes?
Also you never responded to my response to your case on me.
Does anyone know if this is textcats usual level of activity?-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I'll feel like a complete tool if NJAC is scum, but:
VOTE: Vote : Persephone
I've liked Persephone as scum for ages, her posts read as newb scum unsure of how to proceed, PoE also gives her slot very strong odds of being scummy.
As for NJAC he has at least shown he is here to play, and I feel like there would be far easier wagons to push for scum-NJAC than Farside.
Unfortunately this lynch is a low information lynch but I think it's a really high scum percentage lynch.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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A new wagon isn't necessarily a bad idea, as long as we can hustle over the next 30 hours or so. I've seen more happen in less time in mafia.In post 721, MiniDeathStar wrote:Why is everybody ignoring the complete and total turnaround in attitude in both NJAC and Gamma Emerald? What's with the persephone wagon now? Didn't you all just say a new wagon was a bad idea a few hours ago? I'm really starting to understand why alban ragequit.
I'm staying with my Gamma vote, thankyouverymuch. The vig is going to have a busy few nights.
I feel like this thread is full of people who crammed for their final exams. Doesn't mean we aren't going to nail it.-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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In order for it to be NAI you need to show that he jumps on the same amount of wagons as scum. That scum Gamma game he seemed less "wagony". Which implies Gamma is just a wagon jumper as town.In post 763, eagerSnake wrote:
In this mini normal he was town and on the following wagons-In post 759, farside22 wrote:
Link?In post 736, eagerSnake wrote:Gamma wagons every chance he gets as town it's a NAI thing for him - he just changes his mind frequently. I think I already said this.
As I said I did a quick search and only got through 2 games that had him more tunnelling then voting whatever wagon appeared.
D1- Grendel, CCC, Square World, CCC, Manuel87, eagerSnake,
D2- CCC, VictorDeAngelo,
D3- The_Jester, gerryoat, Huntress,
D4- malpascp
So, 6 wagons D1, 2 wagons D2, 3 wagons D3, and then the only wagon D4
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go-
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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FancyPants he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I really feel like newb-scum are more likely to hedge or struggle with reads because they know they have to fabricate them.
They worry about what they have to say knowing everything is being scrutinized.
I recently played with newb-scum who did exactly that, pleading ignorance rather than producing anything of value.
I know it's player dependent but I'm not buying Persephone's behaviour as newb-town behaviour.
Especially with the replace out.-
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No scum want to call out the Perse wagon because they don't want to be exposed as her buddies.In post 847, farside22 wrote:The whole quick wagon on NJAC makes me want to scream.
Why is njac wagon suspect and not the perse?
Why is one wagon more uncomfortable then the other?
I want someone who has said NJAC wagon looks to quick to respond.-
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