Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Annnnnd, there it is.

Build your case Wisdom. I'm here, waiting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, this is productive.

Hey, remember when Dave was scum?

Let's vote him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That seems correct.

Do you have anything further to add?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But then he jumped back on because he determined that the link did not actually exist.

But he can't discuss this link because he may be outing a Mason. Even though the person he thought was Mason can't be a Mason because it was based on the assumption that NPAU was Mason, which we now know he was not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I get the feeling you're not reading.

I have very clearly and explicitly stated my case. I have even re-stated sections of it.

I'm getting frustrated now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks.

You won't have to put up with me much more.

I think I'm going to replace out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

As Scum, you don't fight the wagon because you want him lynched and you don't want to look like you knew he was Town

. As scum, you don't want to come across like you're on a bad lynch, so you pretend to second-guess yourself to gain credibility that you really feel the wagon you're on is wrong but you have no option but to stay on it.

As Town, you don't fight the wagon because a lynch on Town is better then no lynch at all, plus you can't be certain you're right - maybe the people who put the wagon at L-1 are on to something.

As town, if you think the wagon really is bad, you try to steer town elsewhere onto somebody who you're scum-reading. You trust in your own reads more than anybody else's because you

know

you're town and you cannot be certain of anybody else.

My thoughts ^^

Why did you stay on the wagon?
Why didn't you try to stop the wagon?
Why didn't you try to push somebody else's wagon?

With 10 hours left in the day? When I thought the most likely alternative (GM) would probably be worse? Also see my recent response to GM's question / self answer. Find the same thing in my ISO earlier. See me getting all concerned about a no lynch, and actually pushing people

like you

to vote NPAU (and then unvote, I might add).

Spoiler:

Sigh.

It feels genuine. I still don't like it took her near 2 weeks to present it, but w/e.

UNVOTE:

I guess I just didn't expect it to take that long, especially when you named 4 or 5 people that you have played with before that you said you would be able to gain reads on quickly.

It doesn't matter now anyway.

VOTE: NPAU

What is the town motivation behind 'Watching the thread and clock' on a wagon you don't feel sure of?

If a wagon I agreed with had formed, and it looked like it would go through, I would have switched to it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
The NPAU wagon was the best (ONLY) hope of a lynch, which is

better for town

than a no-lynch.

My oh my, plenty of lies, damn lies and more lies.

When you unvoted NPAU, you had just over 2 days, looks like it was around 52 hours or so. Now, 2 days is plenty of time to try and steer a wagon onto somebody you're scum-reading. Instead, you just hopped back on with around 22 hours to go (again, not 10). Still plenty of time to at least

try

and get your point across on who you thought was scum and why.

I can't believe you're trying to give yourself credit for my voting of NPAU when you had absolutely no part in that vote at all. Show me how you got me to vote NPAU. This is something scum do, try to give themselves credit for something that they didn't actually do.

Now, why would you wait for a wagon to be formed? Why would you not try to form a wagon yourself? That is what town do, they don't wait for somebody else to do something that they can sheep. They pro-actively try to find scum, no matter what. The fact you even imply you were waiting for another wagon to be formed indicates to me that you think there was enough time for this to be done. Which contradicts your earlier point made about not having the time to push a wagon on someone you were scum-reading yourself. If you didn't have the time to push a wagon (2days) what makes you think somebody else could create a wagon when you were 'watching the thread' with approx 6-8 hours of the day left?

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

Have a look through Dave's ISO. See if you can find his reasoning for voting NPAU because I don't see it anywhere.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you not follow up on the NPAU wagon you disliked so much at start of D2?

Nice dodge!!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@

Everyone

- Look what Dave chooses to reply to. Of all the things I said, he picks up on he fact that I said 6-8 hours

APPROX

and he points out it was 10.

Like, he deems that the most important part of my post to respond to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Starting a new wagon with 10 hours left is pissing in the wind. At that point, we needed to not have a no-lynch.

The time before that? Trying to figure out the connections, duh. I did not find anything, and returned to the only wagon which would work.
Scum would never leave the wagon to begin with.

I repeat, are you really this dense? You're scum and I'm voting you. You're wiggling exactly the same way you wiggled when Thor voted you at the top of D3 in our newbie.
I, on the other hand, am calmly refuting every thing you try to throw.

You're super selective with what you respond to and it makes interacting with you difficult.

You had 2 days when you unvoted.

2 days

. Not 10 hours.

When you said you were watching the thread you implied this was in case somebody started a wagon you deemed suitable to join. I'm asking you why you thought somebody else could create a wagon in 10 hours but you claimed that you didn't have enough time yourself to create your own wagon?

Do you see this contradiction?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

896 might have been in reply to you but it's not

because

of you that my vote changed.

In 896, I said '

it

feels genuine.' 'It' was in reference to Mala's 891. Mala's 891 is what made me re-evaluate my read on her and consequently join the NPAU wagon.

You will also notice that my 898 is in direct response to Mala. Again, not related to anything you have done.

So, tell me again. How do you get credit for me joining the NPAU wagon?

Wait what? So you didn't pause on NPAU because you thought he might be Mason? You've now changed that to you paused on NPAU because of my willingness to join his wagon???

Which is it?

You're also acting like I had no previous scum-read on NPAU and joined his wagon with no reasoning. This is a gross misrepresentation on your part.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just in case you missed them.

Why did you not follow up on the NPAU wagon you disliked so much at start of D2?

Nice dodge!!

When you said you were watching the thread you implied this was in case somebody started a wagon you deemed suitable to join. I'm asking you why you thought somebody else could create a wagon in 10 hours but you claimed that you didn't have enough time yourself to create your own wagon?

Do you see this contradiction?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If someone being Town made them right then everyone would have a 100% Town winrate. Trusting your own reads is important, but treating them as infallible is downright dangerous.
If there isn't time to move wagons (which I'd say there wasn't) then trying to do so is unhelpful. dave did have no option but to stay on it, whether or not he genuinely felt it was bad. Why are you so convinced that he would only have done so as Scum?

I completely agree with regards to trusting your own reads.

There was time when Dave originally unvoted. He had 2 days. He could have at least made an attempt. There was a number of people who were clearly undecided towards the end of D1.

If this was the only part of my case, I would have conceded and moved on. But, it's not. It's supported with various other things he has done that I found scummy.

What do you make of our recent interactions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't really clarify one of my points in that last post.

The fact Dave made no attempt to push scum elsewhere after unvoting NPAU and then jumped back on the wagon makes me think he is scum. As town, I would expect an attempt at some scum-hunting and a push on somebody else to try and keep his town-read alive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

Have a look through Dave's ISO. See if you can find his reasoning for voting NPAU because I don't see it anywhere.

In fact, Dave can you answer this instead of Josh.

Quote where you stated your reasons for joining the NPAU wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

I concede the point on you providing reasoning for being on the NPAU wagon. Very little reasoning, but still reasoning.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Wisdom,

Joining the Dave wagon yet or do you need more convincing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm warning you; nobody tunnels harder than I do.

Have you posted anything relevant?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM asked for my reasoning. I gave it.

You can join the Dave wagon now.

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Another person who uses meta?

I'm sure Mala said we were similar. She may have been mistaken.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, I've given plenty of reasoning. It's strange you have fixated on those reasons.

I should warn you I'm very aware of my own meta.

Trying to use meta to read me will not work.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

To Dave,

896 might have been in reply to you but it's not

because

of you that my vote changed.

In 896, I said '

it

feels genuine.' 'It' was in reference to Mala's 891. Mala's 891 is what made me re-evaluate my read on her and consequently join the NPAU wagon.

You will also notice that my 898 is in direct response to Mala. Again, not related to anything you have done.

So, tell me again. How do you get credit for me joining the NPAU wagon?

Wait what? So you didn't pause on NPAU because you thought he might be Mason? You've now changed that to you paused on NPAU because of my willingness to join his wagon???

Which is it?

You're also acting like I had no previous scum-read on NPAU and joined his wagon with no reasoning. This is a gross misrepresentation on your part.

Just in case you missed them.

Why did you not follow up on the NPAU wagon you disliked so much at start of D2?

Nice dodge!!

When you said you were watching the thread you implied this was in case somebody started a wagon you deemed suitable to join. I'm asking you why you thought somebody else could create a wagon in 10 hours but you claimed that you didn't have enough time yourself to create your own wagon?

Do you see this contradiction?

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

I concede the point on you providing reasoning for being on the NPAU wagon. Very little reasoning, but still reasoning.

With love,

BBT.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm unmetable (if that's not a word, it should be)

I have just reposted several points from my case that have yet to be answered at the top of this page.

You're desperate to discredit me. It's flattering, but distracting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, what do you make of Dave changing his reasoning for his hesitation about the NPAU wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What gave me pause on NPAU?

Your easy willingness to switch to the wagon

, that's what. I expected there to be fight. I read that willingness as scum, and when you changed to GM it just reinforced scum.

This looks like a singular reason to me. Not an additional reason.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Point out two things which are mutually exclusive. You can't have a contradiction without it.

pedit: I needed to check something, does not imply that thinking about that something is what made me think I needed to check. i.e. Wisdom is correct.

You said you didn't have enough time to push a wagon on one of your scum-reads. You had 2 days.

You then said you would watch the thread in case a wagon popped up that you deemed suitable. There was 10 hours left.

Tell me, how could someone create a wagon in 10 hours if you couldn't in 2 days?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't believe scum haven't jumped on this Dave wagon yet...

Oh wait...

They're trying to start a counter-wagon.

That's right.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dave, can you respond to 1275 please

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're not.

I still have outstanding questions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's people who made comments like this one...

I'm not liking NPAU right now. I think he is my #1 lynch for today.

... but asking why people voted for NPAU that make me FoS.

I'm moving my vote to

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Well, that's opportunistic.

Trying to decide if Dave genuinely just

hard

town-slipped or it's a fake.

The difficulty in getting this wagon going really makes me think it's on scum though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At a minimum there is another scum to catch, and worst case if BBT goes off as either alignment then my scum read on him becomes a little weaker and maybe we need to find two.

It's an Open Set-up.

We KNOW there are 3 Goons to find.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually, I don't know whether he is classing himself as a Goon and that's why there are 'two' to find.

I'm confused.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nothing to say Wisdom?

Must be a first...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What's weird about it given that it's only just happened and all the tunnelling happened before he said that?

If it's not a town-slip, what is it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've thought all along that there are two. If it's 3 then the logic that led me to believe it was ok for masons to claim now was wrong.

What logic was that?

We could put hephaestus to the lurker vs. absent test. Run up a wagon, and see how long it takes him to appear and how he responds to the accusation.
I've thought it was scummy all along, but wanted to hold off to see if it was really just RL pressure.
This is by no means the strongest possible approach, but it's something that might get results.

VOTE: hephaestus

I figured you would get off my wagon once you lost the support of Wisdom. Given it was basically an OMGUS vote, it's not surprising.

I will later be quoting posts that you chose not to reply to. Can't do it right now as multi-quoting doesn't work properly on iPad.

What are your current reads Dave?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Josh, your reads are awful.

I'm sorry. It had to he said.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Current reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No problem. I can wait.

I'll jump on the laptop soon to multi-quote my posts that you didn't respond to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you not follow up on the NPAU wagon you disliked so much at start of D2?

896 might have been in reply to you but it's not

because

of you that my vote changed.

In 896, I said '

it

feels genuine.' 'It' was in reference to Mala's 891. Mala's 891 is what made me re-evaluate my read on her and consequently join the NPAU wagon.

You will also notice that my 898 is in direct response to Mala. Again, not related to anything you have done.

So, tell me again. How do you get credit for me joining the NPAU wagon?

Wait what? So you didn't pause on NPAU because you thought he might be Mason? You've now changed that to you paused on NPAU because of my willingness to join his wagon???

Which is it?

You're also acting like I had no previous scum-read on NPAU and joined his wagon with no reasoning. This is a gross misrepresentation on your part.

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Peabody

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Josh is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't like his student vote on me though when my wagon looked like taking off.

I'll take a closer look.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Student vote. That's funny.

Sudden is what I meant.

I can get behind a Josh wagon.

VOTE: Josh

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah I have seen his recent posts.

I haven't gone into much detail, I will be doing so tomorrow though.

I don't like his posting in general, I said earlier that I thought one of Dave/Josh was scum and I think I was conf. bias reading Josh's posts as town. Also, after re-reading what Shinbi was saying about Josh's last minute vote on MS end of D1 and no follow up D2, I'm happy voting him for now until I can investigate further myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh god please make this wagon quick.

BBT when you do anti-town things in a game like tunnel a townie to death just because they weren't on a lynch wagon, expect to be FoS'd.
When you do it two games in a row, you're either scum or playing against your wincon.

You voted me for questioning people who were on the NPAU wagon because I said in early D1 that NPAU was my #1 lynch for that day.

Now you're saying you're voting me for tunnelling.

Which is it?

Also, Dave was on the wagon. I hope now that you can see the difference in this silly argument you're trying to push by comparing it to the Micro game, because in the micro game I was looking at players who were off the wagon. Dave was on the wagon when NPAU got lynched, you're really not paying much attention, are you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

just because they weren't on a lynch wagon, expect to be FoS'd.

I know what similarities he was talking about.

I was specifically addressing this point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For some reason he thinks Dave wasn't on the NPAU wagon when he got lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, I see.

I didn't like Dave's late D1 play. I didn't like his 'scum-hunting' in the time he was off the NPAU wagon either.

I disliked his interactions with Mala, it felt like he was going to sheep me onto Mala, hence why he asked what I thought of Mala's reads. If I had stayed on Mala, I strongly suspect Dave would have followed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's a different game under different circumstances.

That's like saying 'The last time you lynched someone who hammered a town wagon they were town, so why do it again?'

That logic makes no sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM is scum.

I cannot believe how little you have contributed to this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You were reading him as solid town way before that slip.

And before I presented my case on him if I remember correctly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My point is don't use reasoning to justify a town-read when those reasons are only applicable after the fact.

You refused to explain your town-read on Dave when it first appeared.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You said 'plus the town-slip'.

You also used the fact that I presented a 'bad' case and that gave you a town-read on him. Not only did my case happen after your town-read, but I fail to see how me presenting said case equals Dave being town.

Can you explain that correlation?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

dunno I remember liking his posts a lot when I was reading the game,

and

I found BBT's "case" terrible, so

Plus he has now townslipped as you'll see in a bit

The bolded word holds quite a bit of significance here. This suggests you were responding to the same point, so you were town-reading Dave based on my case.

The 'plus' also signifies a continuation of the same point.

I feel there has been some hard-white-knighting going on here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm simply evaluating what your post is telling me.

The words you have used hold a lot of significance and contradict your attempt at explaining them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huntress, what are your reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, your read on Pea?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM is the third scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nice to see you to Josh.

You lied to me. I'm hurt.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Josh,

You town?

Yep, I'm town.

This isn't a lie?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom ninja'd me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's mostly due to her not doing much the entire game. I just don't feel like she has been scum-hunting at any point.

She is lurking hard.

There is also the associative to do with Josh's and Pea's late D1 play (reluctance to join the GM wagon) but that doesn't hold much water without a flip.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's why it's GM

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vote Josh Pea?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fantastic.

I believe that's L-1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum don't need to read.

Choose...defend your buddy or bus him.

Go!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I was starting to think Josh was town as well.

More due to Pea's vote on him though. If he's bussing, he's fooled me for now.

VOTE: Peabody

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, your recent reads are terrible.

You should reset again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, they're not.

Try again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm town.

Shinobi could be scum.

I could PL Heph just for lurking so hard.

Pea is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because they're by no means the scummiest players in this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah.

Vote Pea with me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Does it?

Why is Shinobi scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Town don't tunnel?

I don't see how Shinobi is scum from his interaction with Uct, can you elaborate?

I'll look up that contradiction.

Have you thought of asking him for his reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You said he has spent the day tunnelling Josh, as if that somehow makes him scum. When it doesn't.

That 'contradiction' doesn't make Shinobi scum either.

I'm not a fan of Shinobi's play at all this game. He has basically played the 'lazy' card for the entirety of the game so far. I could certainly see him being scum, however, he is not a priority right now. There are scummier people to look at.

I need to review Uct because he has completely flew under my radar for this whole game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha, nice try Wisdom.

Once again, your reads are pretty bad and I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that Shinobi is the scummiest player in this game when just a couple of pages ago you were dead-set on Josh and Pea.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm beginning to get the feeling you're role fishing.

You have left Josh alone since he claimed VT.

Tell me why your reads have changed so drastically on Josh and Pea?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain what lead you to believe both Josh and Pea are town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huntress, why is Uct scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's more "they can be town" than "they are town". I read their posts again and decided that even if they're quirky and antitown as hell, I can accept them coming from town.

How? Give me specifics.

What specifically made you think they could be town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You haven't given me specifics. Silly.

You keep recycling the same generic answer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meanwhile, you have no reasons for believing Shinobi to be scum and continue to role-fish.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not defending Shinobi. I'm trying to understand why you think he is the scummiest player in the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't see how Shinobi is scum from his interaction with Uct, can you elaborate?

It does. Townies try to get reads. Shinobi has done nada.

Do they? Has GM been trying to get reads? Has Uct been trying to get reads? Why is Shinobi scummier than those two in that respect?

As to what triggered it, I already explained what I didn't like from Shinobi and you the last few pages.

Are you saying Josh and Pea looked townier upon re-read, or myself and Shinobi looked scummier?

You need to make up your mind and be clear.

It's more "they can be town" than "they are town". I read their posts again and decided that even if they're quirky and antitown as hell, I can accept them coming from town.

What about their posts made you think they were town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's pretty poor reasoning for the change in reads.

Shinobi engaged Uct in that conversation, therefore, it was Shinobi trying to get the read, not Uct.

Try again?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shinobi accused Uct of being scum.

Uct asked for a case (how is this trying to get a read?)

Who else has Uct tried to scum-hunt?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I sheeped you, please.

You make it sound like you've actually been scum-hunting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Heph

Purely a policy vote.

Going to try and lynch all lurkers so I can solidify my town-reads and find out who's scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: GM

That's better.

That one feels good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're too good Wisdom.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom,

Who you scum with?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah.

Seriously.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your/MS' vote history doesn't look too good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I'm not sure.

You've managed to gain quite a few town-reads and I like a challenge.

I think you're scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you think I'm arguing and why don't you think I have a choice?

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I'm not sure why you're my only choice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Where is your case for why I'm scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, 'scum-vibes'

Good luck pushing that case!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, finished my ISO of Wisdom. I may have more to add in at a later time/date after analyzing the VC's.

Can everybody read this please. I know it's long, but I would really value some input.

Right now, there is almost definitely one scum in Wisdom/Josh/Pea. Possibly two.

In Wisdom's first post, 1068, he states he is scum-reading Pea. This is a recurring theme throughout.

1077 - Still scum-reading Pea.

1089 - Still scum-reading Pea.

1105 - Presents reasons for Pea being scum.

1106 - Finally votes Pea.

Now, here he decides to start White-knighting Dave. He spends roughly the next 8 pages white-knighting Dave. Hard - 1108, 1122, 1125, 1132, 1139, 1142, 1148, 1150, 1156, 1161, 1167, 1169, 1194, 1281. This just feels wrong. If Dave was under threat of a lynch, I can understand him jumping to his defence, but it was just me pushing. Wisdom got himself hugely invested in something that had nothing to do with him, and I have to ask myself why? I think this was a great opportunity for Wisdom to gain himself some town-cred. He went to great lengths to discredit my case and even flat out answer questions that were directed at Dave.

1128 - Wisdom is still town-reading me.

1137 - Refused to explain town-read on Dave, who he had been heavily defending, but was happy to explain town-read on Uct. I never did get answer as to why this was the case? I've noticed that Wisdom can be fluffy with his reads, and he also later went on to explain his town-read once the situation had died down. More on that later.

1174 - Wisdom is still town-reading me. Despite my persistence on pushing Dave.

There is now a sudden change in his read. He goes from saying 'He promises I am most likely town' to;

1205 - Scum-reading me. I would like to know what happened between 1174 and 1205 that changed this read.

1319 & 1321 - Begins to scum-read Josh. Votes Pea...what? Well, I guess he has been scum-reading him the entire game whilst not actually pressing for his lynch.

1369 - Votes Josh. He moves off his biggest scum-read who he has been scum-reading the entire game onto a new target. Conveniently, Josh's wagon looks like it was in the ascendency at this point.

1393 - States why Pea is scum, but he's pushing whilst his vote is elsewhere. Why?

1428 - Yay, he finally explains his town-read on Dave. It's almost 300 posts late, but we got it in the end. The problem is, he tries to use reasons that didn't happen until AFTER he started town-reading Dave. This leads me to believe it was in fact an attempt at WK'ing to gain the town's trust and credit. He had no reason to involve himself and could not explain his town-read when first asked.

1477 - Explains his scum-read on Josh. So, everything he thought is still relevant at this point. Josh is at L-2 and he continues his argument.

1533 - Unvotes Josh - because he's scared of scum self-hammering...what? I'm thinking this was a bus from Wisdom, I really can't make my mind up though.

1559 - Completely retracts everything. Josh and Pea are now town. Seriously. He actually did that.

One of those three is scum, possibly two. I'm most confident about Wisdom, the fact he has been scum-reading Pea for the entirety of the game and never actually pushed it hard is a little concerning.

It's even more concerning when you consider that 'He tunnels harder than I do.' Really? Because I don't see it. It leads me to believe that Pea is scum as well, Wisdom has been soft-bussing all game and that Josh is actually town.

But if Josh is town, why did Wisdom unvote? Did he think his work was done? Josh's lynch would be pushed through now and he could absolve himself of any responsibility by jumping off. I don't know. This is where I really need input.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Wisdom

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@1663 - That first section isn't contradictory at all. It states you were scum-reading Pea, which you were. You didn't push it though, instead, you chose to focus on defending Dave. Gaining town-cred in the process.

Like I said, had Dave been under threat of being lynched, I could understand you trying to defend him. This was just an opportunity for you to try and look like town.

Now, if I'm a tunnely player like you, then you know full well that the tunnel doesn't end quickly. Therefore, you should have been expecting me to continue pushing. The fact you started scum-reading me contradicts your earlier explanation for why I was town.

You didn't vote Josh in 1319 and 1321. You stated he was scummy and voted Pea.

You voted Josh in 1369. His wagon in the ascendency and an opportunistic vote.

You stated earlier that you 'only explain reads when you feel it necessary'. Why was it more imporant to explain your town-read on Dave when asked by somebody else as opposed to when I was pushing him and thinking he was scum? Also, you 'liking his posts' is ridiculously generic and fluffy, I want you to elaborate.

Yeah, I mean, scum self-hammering. That's so bad for town right? I mean scum hammering themselves, whatever would we do?

You haven't pushed Pea hard at all, especially given you're 'notorious' for your death-tunnelling. You've voted him, whilst pursuing other people. You've never truly pushed him.

Here's my theory why. When scum soft-buss scum all day, they accomplish a few things. Firstly, it truly looks like they're scum-hunting. Your case is legit because you know him to be scum, but you have to balance it so you don't push so hard that everybody joins. I think you have done that pretty well.

Secondly, you don't attract unwanted attention from townies. When you attack a townie, they ask why? They investigate, they ask questions etc etc. When you do it to your own scum partner, you don't have any of this to deal with.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I want to see a hell of a lot more from Mala after her V/LA. Those posts were awful.

More from GM aswell.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was trying to think of some polite way to say, "then stop shitting up the thread while I'm in class, christ on a unicycle" but politeness escapes me at the moment..

What? How am I 'shitting' up the thread? At least I'm trying to solve the fucking game. So many people are jus coasting/lurking/cba it's ridiculous

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shut up. They weren't awful considering your posts at the time I was commenting were pretty bad, but please do explain how they were awful.

Why would a scum!Wisdom change his reads from Josh when he was at L-1?

UNVOTE:

(^so nothing happens yet)

Prob not

Ugh never.

No, you're right. Those posts were pretty amazing. /sarcasm.

BBT I have zero clue on why you are voting Wisdom, but it just a horrible vote that you should consider changing it ASAP. Like seriously this isn't scum Wisdom and you both act so similarly it's incredible.

You have no clue...I've only wrote two huge posts on the subject.

Whatever though. You just keep producing those amazing posts that you're doing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@1691 - I see people use this 'distracting for the game' a lot and it simply isn't true. People don't pay much attention to 1v1's. This is evident across the board and it's one of the reasons that it's so difficult to get a lynch.

I have a theory and I'm going to try it out the next chance I get.

As for the distracting element, how many people have been distracted by me v you? 1? Mala made a brief comment on my voting of you, notice she didn't comment on my case, just the fact I was voting you.

How about me vs dave?

It's not very distracting to other people in the game because most of the time it gets completely ignored. Note: I asked everyone to provide some input on my case and theory on/about you and nobody replied. So what you're saying is actually not true.

I did want you to go away. However, I wanted you to go away because you were answering questions directed at Dave and answering arguments directed at Dave. That is very different from me telling you to go away if you we trying to explain a town-read or actually telling me why I could have been wrong in going after him. But, you did none of this.

Josh gave 96 hours before his intention to self-hammer. So we had 4 days, with Josh under good pressure at L-1 (which is what you say you wanted) but you unvoted straight away. Why? You relieved a lot of the pressure on someone you wanted supposedly wanted there to be pressure on.

You have not pushed Pea hard. I haven't seen you trying to build his wagon up. You have always made sure your attention is focused on two things when it involves Pea.

You haven't attacked many people. You have attacked Josh and attacked Pea. Is there anybody else you have attacked to the same level?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My original read on mala was based on legitimate effort from her, which is too much for a scum to be going through IMO

What do you think about the quote below Uct?

Malakittens

- I played a game with her recently where she relied heavily on meta, but ended up as scum. I don't know how a town-Mala plays yet.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No comments on the distraction fallacy you tried to push?

Or the fact you tried to misrep me when I was asking you not to get involved with me and Dave?

Your reasons for not allowing Josh (as scum) to self-hammer are just laughable. There had been more than enough time, and discussion, for the game to move forward.

Me and Shiobi...not sure if you're being serious...

Your case on me is 'scum-vibes' and you haven't pushed me at all. I am engaging you, don't act like you're the one trying to gain a read.

You've pushed Shinobi a little, granted. Let's see where that goes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Figures.

Votes on Wisdom please.

If not, tell me why not or present a better case on somebody else.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

AtE?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meta, haha. No comment.

Wisdom is definitely town. OK. Elaborate.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM, that in no way tells me why Wisdom is town.

I'm kind of glad people are scum-reading me, I was beginning to get worried that my town-play was too transparent. I'm even happier that people are scum-reading me based on meta.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, I'm willing to sheep almost anyone onto almost any wagon.

I won't sheep Wisdom or Pea. I might sheep GM or Josh.

I won't vote Huntress.

My vote is yours when you need it.

Go!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do I need to ask you about?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see no reason to ask you about 1277.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fantastic.

I'm officially bored with this game.

I shall now spend my time prodging until we get to deadline and everyone wants to rush to a lynch.

Ciao!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Pea,

I think the answer to your question is in this thread.

Go look.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can sheep that.

VOTE: Josh

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1559 - Completely retracts everything. Josh and Pea are now town. Seriously. He actually did that.

What's the scum motivation in doing that?

He was bussing. Got a little close to Josh being lynched, needed to do something to stop that happening.

A hard reset.

I like that.

But if Josh is town, why did Wisdom unvote? Did he think his work was done? Josh's lynch would be pushed through now and he could absolve himself of any responsibility by jumping off. I don't know. This is where I really need input.

If you really need input why aren't you considering both possibilities here? Town-Wisdom as well as scum-Wisdom.

[/quote]
Because I don't do fluffy cases.

If I'm pushing a case, it's because I believe that person to be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Uct and NPAU may be good wagons also. These are based on reading Scripten's ISO now that he be dead.

WOW...I really wish I could edit my posts.

Uct or GM for me today.

You (Uct) was from Scripten's ISO I believe.

GM because I thought she was scum D1 and her play D2 hasn't changed my mind.

This was a long, long time ago though.

My top 3 lynches for today would be Wisdom, Josh or Pea.

I feel comfortable that you're town, Uct.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Policy lynch?

Really?

You must be confused. I only lynch scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's right.

That's exactly what you did.

Then used a 'hard reset' to just magically make those reads go away.

I'm gonna have to try that one in a future game I think.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, not all of you/wisdom/pea are scum.

One of you are. Maybe two.

Can you do that math?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why am I scum again?

Still scum-vibes?

What's the plan? Lynch Shinobi because you perceive him as the easier lynch out of the two of us and then kill me N2?

That could work I guess. I would suspect you would come under heavy pressure though. Might want to have a rethink. You worked hard for that town-cred defending Dave.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I foiled their plan.

They gone into hiding.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I advise you to.

That plan is awful.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You still haven't explained why I'm scum...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You have never explained why you think I'm scum.

Just scum-vibes.

Which is the second worst case I have ever seen.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, let's play a game.

Let's pretend that myself, Shinobi and Heph are 3 confirmed townies.

Who are your next 3 scum-reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you seem so sure that Pea and Josh are town now.

That seems a little strange that your reads would automatically revert back to where they started should your reads be wrong.

How confident are you that Pea and Josh are town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Come on scum!

Get your asses on my wagon!

Pea, I haven't scum-read Huntress. Or Heph. They might be the only two.

I'm suspicious of everyone though. But that's because I'm town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't scum-read Scripten either.

I also haven't strictly scum-read Uct. I suggested him as a good lynch based on Scripten's ISO, however, after reading him myself, I feel he is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

His ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

His posts.

I don't explain town-reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I do.

It's dependent on the situation, of course.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will back off ANY lynch if I have no support.

If I run out of scum-reads before I get support, I sheep.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Correct.

It does depend on the game though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Josh, why was my case against Dave anti-town?

Why do you think anti-town = scummy?

Why are you trying to use reasoning from a previous game as to why I'm scum when I was town in that game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you not understand that every game is different and the cases were not completely the same?

I also said to to that what you're saying makes no sense at all.

It's like saying 'The last time I pushed a case on someone for quick hammering they were town, so I'll make sure I never, ever do that again because it was anti-town.'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The reasons behind MS' voting of NPAU.

Npau has suddenly become a scum read based on 439.

And he is easier to kill than goodmorning

vote npau

Npau is still likely scum


I have no motivation to write cases just go lynch him just go

UNVOTE:


I hate terrible play from pple like you -___-


VOTE: npau

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

What do you think about my previous post Josh with this in mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're scum-reading Wisdom?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Josh can you explain why you're joining a wagon that one of your scum-reads is pushing.

I realise that you said 'Shinobi is scummier than Wisdom' but this doesn't really excuse you joining a wagon your scum-read is leading.

You also made the point about pushing people who voted NPAU for silly reasons, yet you seem to be ignoring this yourself. Both Shinobi and myself were not even on the NPAU wagon when he got lynched yet we're the two you seem insistent on lynching.

I have pointed out somebody who had 'silly' reasons for voting NPAU and you claim to have already seen this/had this in mind and you doing nothing to chase it up. This doesn't make sense. If you saw it, and wasn't happy with it, why didn't you mention it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This, really. They're scum, Mala.

Still scum-vibes, right?

You keep saying I am scum, over and over and over again. If you want to get me lynched, you need to actually come up with a case.

Saying I'm scum isn't going to get the job done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, it won't.

Why am I scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What?

You think I said I

would

might sheep GM/Josh because Wisdom put a scum-read on Shinobi? That doesn't make sense.

It's funny that you think I'm flailing.

Why are you following a scum-read onto a wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks Josh!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why you voting me again GM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Still over 7 days left...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah right.

Sounds good,

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, do you think you will be lynched next after I flip town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're going through an awful lot of effort to try and connect Shinobi and myself, Josh.

I can't work out what the motivation behind it is though. I think you're greatly exaggerating the 'crawling all over each other to call each other town'. Hell, I was scum-reading Shinobi for a large part of the game, however, I didn't like the people who started his wagon, therefore it leads me to believe that Shinobi is actually town.

I'm acting like I've already been lynched because I have lost interest again. The days are too long and I feel like even when I do post I'm talking to myself anyway. So I'll let scum lead town down the merry path we're going on until people start to see what's happening and re-evaluate their reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What are you talking about? I am voting Wisdom.

Josh, you're being so anti-town right now...do you see what you're actually doing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, I'm talking shit and not paying attention.

I'm voting Josh.

I'm happy with that vote after Josh's recent flurry of posts because I don't see the town motivation behind him trying to find out who the Masons are.

You're basically narrowing the pool for scum to kill from to find out who the Masons are.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM still scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What's confusing you Dave?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't realise the question was that difficult.

Great to see you had no problem posting elsewhere though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah Wisdom, so instead of voting the person who you were strong scum-reading all game until your 'hard reset', and then disliking their latest post for trying to get town-cred from a potential town flip, you decide to join them on a wagon.

Peabody is voting me. You think Peabody is scum, have done for most of the game, then you join him on a wagon.

Makes total sense.

I can totally see where you're coming from.

VOTE: Peabody

If I remember correctly Pea, you didn't like the NPAU wagon or the GM wagon yesterday. You pretty much don't like wagons by the sound of it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Good job!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We should lynch Pea today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT what confuses me is that the scum reads from the various people

seem

to form several cycles, like a->b->c->d->a.
I'm going to have to really focus and work out what it really is. But it's late at night and I can't take the necessary time right now.

Looking forward to the elaboration on this as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow. This catch up could take some time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You do.

Have fun.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, let's out the Masons. Towns best chance of winning this game.

Both you and Wisdom have been role-fishing for a while and I just can't see the town benefit to it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Josh, stop looking for Masons. It's so anti-town it's unbelievable.

Only Wisdom is scum out of Heph/Uct/Wisdom.

I think I'm going to try one more case.

God help me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What if said that prior to you and shinobi being big jerks to me when Wisdom was pushing my wagon, my top scum reads were Heph, Uct, and Wisdom.

This sounds like you're scum-reading me because I was scum-reading you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you show me where you were suspicious first?

Also, I didn't OMGUS you and you have flat out admitted to OMGUS'ing me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm working on a case and will post it when I can get on my laptop.

Top 3 scum-reads Josh?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your using the word 'know' badly.

I don't believe either of those players you have listed have said they KNOW the other one is town. You're jumping to conclusions.

There is also no reason to group those players together either. I think you need to re-evaluate the way you're going about this game.

So, top 3 scum is ..., ... and ... because ...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so Pea is scum.

Why I hear you ask. Well, here's why;

Hey! Look at who Scripten was going to move onto if NPAU flipped town; 328

837 - Uct is town, Shinobi not so much. Follow up to come when he is on his laptop. This never comes.

995 - This post is odd. He states that he thinks GM could be scum because of her lack of effort and emotional defence. He follows this to say that he simply does not see the case for NPAU being scum. In summary, he can see GM being scum for reasons, but he does not see NPAU as scum, he just doesn't town-read him. Yet, he ends up on the NPAU wagon completely ignoring his own reads and following who he thinks is town. This is bad logic, he saw a reason for GM being scum, GM was a viable lynch, but he decided not to pursue it in favour of somebody he could not see as being scum.

1005 - Over-reaction. He 'hates' both these wagons. Both are 'probably' town. Wait, NPAU is now a town-read? Because in 970, you specifically state that you're not town-reading NPAU. Looking for some town-cred after the NPAU lynch?

1007 - He casually throws a scum-read out. Conveniently, right at the end of the day. You would expect him to follow this up at the start of D2. He doesn't. To my memory, still hasn't.

1095 - He semi-agrees with my case on Dave. He needs to look at Dave in-depth. This also never happens.

1101 - Reads list. Here we go, he was scum-reading Huntress and he had to look at Dave in-depth as well. This is it. Sadly, no, it isn't. In fact, he doesn't even mention Huntress, he begins to pursue Heph again. He also states that 'Dave hasn't pinged him as town or scum because he hasn't been paying attention to him in terms of alignment'. So, you're not trying to get a read on Dave because....?

1446 - I think Wisdom pointed this one out. He pretty much sheeps everything Wisdom has said. He town-reads Uct in this post.

1514 - Reads-list. He is scum-reading Uct. Why did this change? Still scum-reading Huntress, whilst doing nothing about it.

Pea continually states his 'scum reads' but never actually follows up on them. He is continually 'catching up' which makes him look ridiculously town and I believe this is one of the main reasons I kept my town-read on him as long as I did.

His reads are inconsistent and I don't feel like they're genuine.

Pea should be today's lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@

Nero

- That's my case on Pea yeah.

I don't think many people have paid attention to it though. Unless they're waiting for Pea to respond first.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right Huntress, my bad.

@Mod - Dave and Uct need prodding.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT what confuses me is that the scum reads from the various people

seem

to form several cycles, like a->b->c->d->a.
I'm going to have to really focus and work out what it really is. But it's late at night and I can't take the necessary time right now.

Looking forward to the elaboration on this as well.

Dave needs to elaborate on this and actually do what he said he was going to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're being vague Dave. Who else bothered you, you're here now, put some time and effort into this game because I'm not seeing much from you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If someone was legit bothering you, you wouldn't need to read, you would already know who you thought was scum or who you wanted to question.

You said you needed to read it a full two days ago.

Are you having difficulty reading?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't find Dave's lack of effort concerning?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ok.

Shall we all sit here and say we'll do things but never actually get round to doing them?

Yeah, let's do that. We'll figure this game out for sure doing that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Okay, yes, this did come eventually, but it was only after I was prodded on it. However, regardless, what motivation would scum have to promise a follow up and then not follow through? No one was asking me what I made of the shinobi/uct 1v1. I only posted my cursory thoughts, then I got lazy. What would be the point as scum to delay? In fact, I would think scum would be more sure to follow up.

Can you link me to it please?

The motivation as scum is that you appear to be scum-hunting. You also appear to be willing to express your reads. However, you don't follow up on these reads which make them seem fake.

I can see how this could look as if I was scum reading GM and town reading NPAU. This isn't the case.

Yeah, except I explicitly stated that you were not town-reading NPAU. I don't understand why you're suggesting otherwise.

All of the stuff I have cut out here is you basically repeating everything I just said in my case.

Clarification;

GM's quick wagon and derail makes it seem she's town. But her lack of effort earlier in the game and emotional defense appears somewhat scummy.

This is you giving reasons for why GM

could

be scum.

NPAU... I just don't see the NPAU case. Vote hopping isn't scummy to me at all.

This is you saying you

don't

see the NPAU case. So, he isn't town and he isn't scum.

Now, logic dictates that if you find Person A (GM) 'somewhat scummy' and Person B (NPAU) 'null', that you end up on Person A's wagon. This did not happen. Inconsistency.

It's not an over-reaction. It's what I was feeling at the time. NPAU was not an ideal lynch for me. No, I wasn't really town-reading him even after saying he's probably town. I was more just... Well, I hated the lynch choices. I would have rather it have been on heph.

So you wasn't town-reading him, even though you said he was 'probably town'. Got it.

My thought here was Huntress was doing a good job out of the spotlight. I still haven't reread her except for a skim. Nothing really alarms me about her now except she hasn't been examined for pretty much the entire game, minus Mala trying to get a read on her. I thought about her day 2, but decided not to pursue anything since I didn't really see anything outstanding in her iso as I skimmed.

This is so weirdly worded. The fact is, you didn't follow up on your throw-out scum-read. If that was a legit read, as soon as NPAU flipped town, you should have been ISO'ing Huntress ready to pressure her D2. This didn't happen. Makes your reads seem fake.

It did come. Right here. First paragraph.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's you giving your opinion on my case on Dave?

That is very different to you actually ISO'ing and analyzing Dave for yourself. Which is what you said you would do.

No no no. I was NOT scum reading UCT. I put him in my PoE pile.

My bad, so there's no scum in your PoE pile? You're saying you essentially don't have one single scum-read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure. It's here and halfway down.
It was way late, but I did end up sharing why I thought the way I did. I did end up following up on Dave in terms of your and his 1v1. I followed up on Uct based on him vs shinobi. I did not follow up on huntress in thread. I skimmed her, but didn't really see anything which immediately stood out.

You did not follow up on Dave. You stated you would look in-depth at him, not look at my case on Dave, but you yourself ISO and analyze him. This didn't come.

The good thing about you commenting on things so late is that they've already blown over. That is, nobody really cares much about that exchange anymore because it was a *1,000* pages ago.

You said Huntress was scum because you saw an 'aggressive defensiveness' (1007) in her posts. Well, where did you see this? Show examples, explain why you thought this.

Didn't you didn't say I wasn't townreading NPAU? I was frustrated with the wagons. I didn't like either choice. I was flopping back and forth on what I thought of his alignment. I was frustrated I was pinned into one or the other, so I said in my exasperation that both were probably town. I said what I said, hoping he would flip scum. Part of me did entertain the thought he was town, however, and I know you'll probably jump on this as being an inconsistancy.

It's not about what I said, it's about what you said. Look;

I'm not town reading NPAU

NPAU... I just don't see the NPAU case. Vote hopping isn't scummy to me at all.

Both are probably town.

You're damn right I'm gonna jump all over that as inconsistency because that's exactly what it is. You were trying to get town-cred from NPAU's lynch, you had absolutely no reason to suddenly start town-reading NPAU when you voted him.

I decided he was town. Now he's null. No, I didn't full on analyze him. I analyzed him based off of your 1v1. Which made me feel content on it at the time. Also, keep in mind I said that right before I reached peak apathy and didn't post for a few days.

Yeah, you're not getting out of this with the reasoning of being apathetic. You said in 1095 that you would look at Dave in-depth, this didn't happen. You merely commented on my case on Dave, not Dave himself, my case on Dave and moved on.

BBT, why, when you scum read Wisdom, are you gunning for my lynch now? Why did you wait until Wisdom said he could be wrong about me? Why were you talking to me like I was town when I accused you of being scum?

What does me previously scum-reading Wisdom have to do with you? Wasn't it you who pointed out I was 'pretending' to scum-read Wisdom? Did you think I was setting you up for a fall? You're awfully paranoid.

What does Wisdom saying he could be wrong have to do with you? Hell, would it not have been easier for me to just jump along for the ride when Wisdom was scum-reading you? This question makes no sense.

Those questions are filler. Serious filler.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Peabody is Town. I look forward to seeing what Aegor has to say.

BBT is scum hunting.

This statement is questionable.

Hi there lurker providing absolutely no content to the game whatsoever.

Would you care to scum-hunt? That would be great.

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not busy?

You're right. I should start trying to question people or present cases or something...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What's your case on me again?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow...I genuinely don't know what to say to that 'case'.

I wouldn't answer your hypothetical question. This doesn't make me scum.

I argued your second point in 1236

Rush a lynch? We had already had a week's worth of discussion. How is that rushing?

Aaaaaand meta. No comment. Nobody reads me correctly using meta, it's actually quite funny.

I'm beginning to think you're seriously misguided town.

There is no way scum push a case this bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Great post!

10/10

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is blatant misrepresentation. Do you really believe that in a massive wall post to respond to you that I need filler questions? I really want to know. Because if you say you do, I don't believe you. I have no idea what you're talking about 'setting up for a fall'. Paranoia? Hell no. Paranoia has nothing to do with this.

I'm showing YOUR inconsistency. You townread Wisdom, wanted me or Josh lynched, and then when Wisdom changed his mind, you scumread wisdom up to the point of him saying I could possibly be scum again. Why do you need his permission to start a vote on me? You waited until Wisdom voiced suspicion to try to push a case on me. It's opportunistic.

No, I didn't follow up with an in-depth analysis on dave. I feel no need to do it right now. So I won't.

I see Huntress's aggressiveness in 723, 871 on her number 2 point, a twinge of it in 870 too when talking to Josh. It doesn't concern me anymore, and after looking at the meta, she's overall pretty levelheaded anyway. That aggressiveness doesn't spark a scum read in me anymore.

Huntress, I know you said you are voting me based on inconsistancy, and I want to know which inconsistancies YOU are referencing. Is your case the same as BBT's? Do you have more to add?

What am I misrepresenting exactly? Those questions were awful questions; what was the purpose of them?

You thought my read on Wisdom was fake. What made you think this and why did you say it?

Yeah, Wisdom's hard reset was pretty bad. His reads completely reversed, why would I not question it?

So, I town-read Wisdom when he was wanting you or Josh lynched; now, why did I not join Wisdom in wanting you lynched at this time if I was waiting for his permission?

Why is it opportunistic to wait for one person to say you might be scum? It might be opportunistic if 3 or 4 people expressed interest in lynching you and you had a couple of votes; but you didn't.

I think I was the first one to vote you. You're going to have to explain the opportunism to me because I don't see it.

@GM - When you decide you want to actually start being town and start scum-hunting, come let me know. This tunnel on me is ridiculous and you must be able to see that your reasons are flawed as well.

Until then, I'm going to choose to ignore you. Have fun tunnelling!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You trying to push a counter-wagon to Pea?

I'll keep this vote in mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vote Pea?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vote now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is this being left until the last hour of the last day.

Can we lynch Pea now please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nero, Dave, Uct and Aegor, put your votes to use please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's taken him two days to read 20 pages.

Can you see him reading the other 65 pages in the next day or so? Doubtful.

Why do you need to wait for Aegor to catch up before you use your vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is this being left until the last hour of the last day.

Can we lynch Pea now please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-27 20:00:00)

Why is this being left until the last hour of the last day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reasons?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow, that's pretty bad reasoning.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well for a start, you don't know him to be scum.

Secondly, you should be voting for who you think is most likely to be scum between myself and Pea.

I mean, look at how towny that wagon on Pea is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Uct,

Vote please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What about the rest?