Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[Varsoon]

Well, looks like I can finally trust Pasche without that nagging paranoia I usually have to deal with.

Hey everyone. It's nice to see some of you again and I'm excited to play with those of you I haven't been in a game with yet.

[Varsoon]

Because I never vote in RVS.
Blind votes are a shit.

[Varsoon]

@Glass: Nice Onani Master Kurosawa avatar. Or, at least, it looks like that guy's work. My original avatar on this site was from Chikan Otoko.

[Varsoon]

@JMO: Did you check my games and realize I'm the lamest person to RVS with or did you just give in?

@Glass: Cool. If you haven't read his other stuff, I highly suggest checking out Chikan Otoko.

[Varsoon]

@Flench: Get an avatar. Also, it's still pretty RVS, so my top scum-pick would only be myself? I don't know, man.

[Varsoon]

@Cherry: Because I wanted to see what people would say, mostly. Everyone always says they are town. Mixing things up gets the game rolling, don't you know?

@Glass: Well, glad I found someone else who's read all of it. I really like those two works. Anyway, to the game--why is hydra voteswapping scummy?

@Saki: Looks like Haruko from FLCL, but I know that's not the case. Also, got anything to say about the game-state?

@Titus: Not really a random vote if you're laying a vote on a player who's posted a few times so far and read the thread to this point. What's suspicious about Cherry?

[Varsoon]

@Glass: Right on. Makes sense.

@Cherry: So your vote on me is not serious, then?

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: Heya! Sorry I placed out of the last game we had, but couldn't handle the work-load. Glad to see you as conf-town here. Not sure if I agree with your Saki point, since I've seen plenty of town cull votes for lynches in a similar fashion. Reads as null for me.
Which, you know, I could vote for because I don't like the process, but that's like the pot calling the kettle black. Eh, maybe I'm over-thinking it. It's 6 AM here, so I'll post when I'm more coherent.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: You're probably jumping to conclusions or rationalizing the beginnings of an early wagon in your post 58.
As far as your comment in 54, you can say it's buddying, but given my history of games with Pasche, it's just a bit I wanted to share but couldn't via PM, because, you know. Rules and stuff.
To your question, yes--but in different cases. Mostly for lurkers/a miller.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: I had a game with Pasche where he played very pro-town, but I was paranoid that he was rolling a really convincing ruse. I replaced out of that game, though, so I didn't get to see what his alignment is. In this game, I feel I can fully trust his judgments without worrying--something that is good, given how well Pasche plays town.


Anyway, as far as the current game-state goes, it feels like the tension between Saki, Titus, and Cherry is scum-involved. I'm not used to seeing town vs town crossvote so early, so I'm pretty convinced there's a bad apple there. The only problem is that I can't deduce much with the info given. I'm willing to say that Titus is the scum, though. He's been making really careful plays and working hard to look town, but it feels a bit artificial--like he's trying to earn towncred way too early with the questions posed so far. /shrug. Glass is soundly town so far and Cherry is iffy for me. Was reading the slot as town but seems scummier as of recent.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: glass

It'd be nice if you could explain your vote rather than hoping on a wagon with a naked vote.

VOTE: Jmo16mla

Explain your vote.

[Varsoon]

A small wagon's still a wagon. Explain your vote.


@Flench: The reasoning behind his votes and how cynical his voting methods are (based on his own logic rather than other's//doesn't vote opportunistically) come off as town. Clearly, this doesn't make the slot absolutely town, but it's a nod in that direction.

@Dyslexicon: Your points are the reason why I should probably have my vote on Titus. Still, I'd much rather pressure out JMO for this shit. I don't see why no one else thinks it's important. Dude just left a vote and it would've coasted easily.

[Varsoon]

Unvote

Jmo's recent activity is better. Don't think you can get away with that silent lurkdom/vote-dropping you usually do in this game.


@Flench: Glass answered all my questions for me. :3

@Tunnel: Being friendly is a null-tell. Meta me and you'll see lots of hilarious and intentional patterns that you shouldn't trust. Nacho once said my smoking-gun scum meta is playing a really safe and hardcore, methodical town while, as town, I play Village Idiot.
Regardless, I'm shooting for being a fun guy to play with in all my games, despite alignment. It's super important to have fun, and I want to foster that kind of a game environment.

@Glass: Your 117 and other various approaches to pressure are fucking awesome, by the way. It makes me really happy to play with you, but also terrified that you're scum-playing-town. Jmo's definitely scummy, but I'd like for the first day to be long enough for us to get solid reads on everyone.

[Varsoon]

Oh, by the by, I'll be V/LA from Monday until further notice. I'm moving across the country and stuff.

[Varsoon]

Otherwise, people bringing up my meta are stupid--there's a huge thing I drop in every single one of my games that is a sure-fire way to tell my alignment. Therefore, anyone doing substantial meta work on me already know what alignment and role I am, and, furthermore, can explain -how- they know.

[Varsoon]

Oh, I'll likely be back around Wednesday for sure, but if everything goes terribly, I'm either dead or never got my internet connection setup despite being assured it would be when I arrived. In that case, well, I'll try my best to let you know via a library or something.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: My text-walls are typically 2-hour endeavors that mark up to 3,000 words in length and have always been, to this point, wrong.

So here's a quick reads list with no nulls, since nulls are for rubes.

Vote Me - Town. (Good responses, seems engaged, buddying perhaps?)
jmo16mla - Scum. (Is too curt, disengages hard, deflects hard, empty votes)
Glass - Town. (Highly analytical, engages with a pro-town mentality)
StubbsKVM - Scum. (One post? Lame.)
CherryDrPepper (hydra of Sakura Hana and DoctorPepper) - Town. (Hydra malarky is hydra malarky, but seems justified so far)
TunnelVision (hydra of Rank and likeabauss) - Scum (Two posts, seems like a fence-sitter. Wants to know what others think more than asserting himself. Grow a pair or get lynched.)
Titus - Town. (Engages with different players, isn't engaged in distracting meta-malarky, is to-the-point and pro-town about info gathering)
Paschendale - Confirmed Town.
Saki - Scum. (Might be village idiot. Vote hopping like no tomorrow and worse empty votes than JMO. My vote would be here, but I always feel naughty when I vote people on V/LA.)
Dyslexicon - Town. (Or, at least, is playing way more town in those two posts then I've ever seen the player play town. Really engaged and probing in the right areas, I feel. Also, to answer, it feels like no one else wants to pressure JMO or Saki for voting without articulation. That shit bugs me.)
oriole - Town. (attenative, albiet weaker plays so far. Worth keeping an eye on.)
Flench - Scum. (No articulation, stirs up the pot from time to time, highly reactionary in play rather than probing/info-gathering.)


Anyway, that's that. Thanks for keeping things in a row for when I head out, DBK.

Hope this helps, Titus.

Oh, also,

Unvote

I -really- want to vote Saki, but it's against my mojo to stick votes on someone VLA.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Scum can do anything, so I can't really say both titus and Jmo are the same alignment due to Jmo's interaction with him.

@Titus: I usually have people as scum until I can deduce otherwise. I also really don't like falling into the mentality that anyone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, but that everything is in flux and people could be anything, so reads are more of a gauge to see how I am gauging that particular player more than an indicator of absolute value. I really don't like null reads because they don't give town that much info, so my list is a bit scum-heavy, but, honestly, 5/13 isn't so bad for a game with 6 pages.
'Rube' is a derogatory slang word--I like the way it sounds. It usually denotes lower/more basic intelligence. For instance, you wouldn't trust a bunch of rubes with something important.
I also hate meta-related arguments a lot, which is why I'm giving a firm, rhetorical finger to the people who are basing their reads on me off of past games. I think people should be read in the context of their contribution to the game at hand, rather than an analysis of their typical approach to the game on-site.

[Varsoon]

@TunnelVision: Your first block of text is why I find meta ineffective. Because I have a controlled variable that gives away my alignment, I can change it at any time. It's a meta way of me causing trouble for people who rely on the meta. You probably wouldn't get it, since it might be too meta for you.

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: I can make sense of Glass' response, but maybe just because I'm good at sense-making. Or exceptionally and decisively terrible at it. Anyways!

Saki's scum, I agree with you on this point. I... still really don't want to put a vote on a V/LA person, but my vote's my weapon, so I've got to put pressure there. Please forgive me, Saki.
I think this mostly stems from a time I got lynched while I was on V/LA. It was the lamest thing, and made me fume at stupid town for about a week.

Vote: Saki

Sorry for being kinda wishy-washy and half-assed so far in this game. I'm usually the loudest person.
I've spent most my day packing and seeing friends for the last time. :/
I'll be a lot more active once I get up and running in my new place!!

In the mean-time, anyone got any questions for me?
Oh, and!

@Pasche: Conclusions!!
Jmo is totes scum. He's a pretty dodgy player in general, like the kind of person who says "You guys are idiots" when votes amass on him. Dunno if that's a null-tell for him, but it's just plain scummy in my perspective so I'm putting him down in the naughty list.
Saki's input is terrible and interactions are bad.
Titus is right for not trusting me.
Vote Me is really strange. People usually don't say that I'm confirmed town until a day or two in. Actually, people usually just lynch me, hahah.

I don't wanna die early, but if dying early is what it takes for scum to get lynched, eh. It's worth.

[Varsoon]

Well, I noticed it awhile ago, and I felt the best play was to not say anything about it. Now that other players are bringing it up and looking my way, I'd like to toss suspicion away for sure. It's probably not what you're thinking though, that's a bit overt.

You shouldn't ever trust anyone who isn't in-thread confirmed. Given my play so far, it'd be really suspicious to just flat and trust me. I've soft-claimed scum and played like a louse. It's a crummy Varsoon tactic that players like orcinus and Hiraki really hate.

[Varsoon]

@Dyslexicon: Scum can be anything, and obvious is a gamble for them but it can pay off. Can't like the games I could give evidence of a D1 obvious scum gamble, since they're ongoing, but seeing as I'm only in one other ongoing game where a gambling obvious scum got lynched day one *cough cough*...
Shadow my daisies, I'll appear what I want when I want and where I want.
As far as your points on Cherry, I can see that, but I really just want more activity out of the slot.


CHERRY, BE MORE ACTIVE. I WANNA SEE YOUR HYDRA UPSIDE AND DOWN. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT STUFF? DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS?

Also-also, Dyslexicon, you're being really tacitly town. Dunno how to feel about that, but it's good for now. -For now-.

[Varsoon]

Like should be link. I can't like them either, because, well, they probably wouldn't return my feelings. Nyoro~n.

[Varsoon]

It bums me out when all my games are slow-moving.
I might just pack up my computer or go to sleep, so when I stop posting, I'll be on V/LA.
I'll mark it on my profile, so don't fret, <3

[Varsoon]

Okay, let's get a few things straight.
I just got back from my V/LA, but I'm settling into a new home, so don't expect me around 24/7... yet.
Here's an attempt to answer people's questions, but please throw me bolded ones if you want me to get them/I forget any:

@Glass: I swapped my vote onto Saki after re-reading and Iso'ing some players. It's what I do from time to time in early-game to see if there's stuff I miss. I don't like the lack of articulation on early votes Saki's made. Also, calls for sheeping and all that.
As for the swap from JMO, who is still on my scum-list, I just wanted to put pressure there. He posted a bit out of it, which was good, even if the content was lacking. I got what I wanted with my vote, although no one seems to care about lynching JMO's transparent scum-game, so I'd rather shift focus.

@Nerds: I tried to guess Saki's avatar because I figured I knew what it was/was entertaining the idea. If I wanted town points, I wouldn't claim scum. Rube harder, Rubes.

@Saki: I put a vote on you for pressure. Thanks for the OMGUS/poor return on my serve.
Also-also, I'm going to bash you over the head if you think I'm stupid enough to try to earn town-cred with such pointless and obvious shenanigans. I've claimed scum in the thread already. Twice in this post. I'm kind-a in charge of my rhetoric, so don't say "OOOH LOOKIT DIS SLIP", because if it was there and you noticed it, that's 'cus I wanted you to.


That pretty much clears it up. Vote stays on ball-Saki.
Get some ice for those burns.

[Varsoon]

Seriously, Saki's done nothing since I voted Saki other than break VLA to bitch about it and put fire on my back.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: It's funny watching you flail. Honestly, though, what Titus said about seeking truth rather than convincing people and your swapped votes from me cherry to me to cherry are both pretty good reasons for my vote to stay where it was.
Why am I not playing the friend card right now when I was when I entered the game? Maybe 'cus I was genuinely happy to be in a game with Pasche as confirmed town and with someone who uses an avatar from a piece of literature I like a lot?
I'm being a bastard now because people are stupid, and they should have to realize that.

@CherryDrP: Feeling a lot better about your slot with the retaliation on Saki. You proved really town under foppish pressure, and dispelled the absurd case Saki's been trying to build so far.

@Titus: You might be playing too town for me not to be paranoid of you.

Anyforwho, big things:
Saki, you're at L-3. Are you still on VLA? If so, let us know. If no, take off your VLA banner. I don't want to see you hit L-1 and not be able to claim, etc.
JMO, You prod-dodged, but will you actually post some content? I feel like a louse when I put people on my scum-dar for putting in minimal effort. Ultimately, it's a null-tell, but it doesn't help town.
Stubbs, any reason for your absence?

[Varsoon]

You go into your User Control Panel, then go to Leave/Vacation tab at the top and disable it, I think. Should be easy to find.


You seem to have quoted the wrong thing/only a little of my post, as your post is addressing parts of my post that you did not quote.

Your case on me has points that I could make about half the people here, or about myself in several of my completed town games.
CherryDP should have a scum-read on me. I'm scum.

Can you quote the place where Cherry is claiming scum?

You're getting lynched because you're taking the game seriously. My play is far different from yours, and if you think that they both have the same effect, you're mistaken. L-3 mistaken, at this point.

PEDIT: I talk about your lynch as if it's likely, because it is. You're at L-3 and stringing your own noose. I'm warning against you being at a (likely) L-1 without the presence to claim/defend yourself. There's a difference of rhetoric that you're missing, I think. If I wanted to talk about your lynch being inevitable, I'd write things like, "Well, once we see what Saki flips..." or "Who should we go after D2?" or... You get the picture.

@Stubbs: Solid. Please catch up and provide some short reads. I feel like JMO is -definitely- not a pro-town player, or that he's a town PR trying to lay low. Regardless, the best way of dealing with it is letting him live through D1, then seeing what happens at night, then pressuring him into the ground on D2 with a lynch if he's still scumming it up.

[Varsoon]

Thanks for updating your VLA banner, Saki. :3

Solid exchange between Saki and Cherry, too. Shifts them both a little more town for me.

But, yeah, what Cherry said. Please give like a sentence to explain your reads, it'll help gauge them better and give us some trajectory when they shift about.

[Varsoon]

Saki-saki, you do this thing where when someone points out/asks you something that might implicate you as scummy, you respond like three times in defense.

It's null, but kawaii~

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Some people play a hard-boiled town game when they're scum. I tried it a few games back and won with it, but it's obvious if you follow a person long enough. Regardless, I'm always skeptical of people who seem irrefutably town in my mind. It's mostly paranoia, but I also don't want to be duped by scum playing town, if that makes sense. Regardless, your contributions and attention to detail is really amazing, and so I'm glad to be playing with you. A lot of the time, I'll have a question for Saki and when I F5, you've already asked it.
Questions:
How do you feel about our lurkers?
What do you feel is the best way to pressure a player?
What do you typically look for in order to discern alignment?
Do you consider the playerbase as town until proven scum, scum until proven town, or null until proven one or the other?
Regarding Saki, do you think the slot is scum/why so?

@Oriole: Perhaps I should'a qualified. Saki hasn't done anything *significantly pro-town* since the vote he put on me.
And, while I feel a bit more conflicted about it, Saki still feels like the best gamble for a scum-flip for D1 as of page 13.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: I often refer to the players via their slots. That way, I differentiate between their play in this game or their play across games. For instance, is Varsoon scummy? The answer is likely yes. Is his current slot in the game scummy? That's a different matter.
So, here's a more articulated version:
Do you feel as though, in this current game, that Saki is scum? If so, why?

Also, thanks for answering my questions.
It'll be helpful for tracking arguments you make later in the game.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: You could just claim at L-2 instead of putting yourself in quick-hammer territory. The last thing we need is to have a short D1.

[Varsoon]

Right on.

1) I've never played on any sites before this. On this one, feel free to check my game history. I have about half-a-dozen completed.

2) I try to find slips in logic, usually across a series of posts. That's why I often ask people for their reads. I also look out for players who use exclusive information in order to push a lynch or who try to exploit information in order to do so. For instance, Saki's tried to exploit that I guessed at his avatar. I usually don't mind when a thing like this is used to support a case against a player, but when it's the foundation of one, it gets to be a bit weak and scum-oriented in my opinion.

3) I usually see all the players as scum until proven otherwise. Of course, in my mind, no one is confirmed as scum or town until their alignment is confirmed in-thread by the mod. Everything is in flux, but I typically don't trust other players until they earn it.

4) I don't like setup speculation, since it usually leads to PR abuse, which is a situation scum can easily take advantage of. I've seen it completely crush town in a few games I've been in on-site. I usually don't engage in setup speculation and I don't like the WIFOM that comes with people claiming roles. It's exclusive knowledge, which, as I explained earlier, is something that is dangerous to town.

5) Oriole makes a few good points from time to time and is playing a lot like a player who wants to contribute to town but doesn't want to have a loud voice in doing so. I've got Oriole's slot leaning town at this point, and the skepticism from him has been pretty town-oriented, imo.

6) Paschendale - Confirmed town, and is usually very methodical as town. Glad to see Pasche in a conf town slot, since it means town will get work done.
StubbsKVM - Don't know what to think about this slot, but he's compliant and his VLA isn't scummy, so he's leaning town for me.
Vote Me - Null. I need to see that catch-up post he promised us.
TunnelVision - Lives up to his name. Hasn't produced much outside of a short tunnel on me. If that was pressure, it wasn't felt. V/LA is null, too.
Dyslexicon - Dyslexicon is a good player, but he's playing VERY carefully this game. It's causing me to feel really paranoid, and given the amount of posts there, I just can't read the slot without the nagging feeling I'm being tricked.
JMO - While JMO's post-count is high, his content is low. I'd like to see the slot produce content for once, instead of coasting. I talked about this earlier in-thread. Otherwise, scummy.

So, ultimately, put pressure on Vote Me/Stubbs/Dys/Tunnel to contribute posts to the thread and for JMO to put content into his posts.

7) It usually has to do with putting a vote on them and building a huge, stupidly long case. I'll do anything to garner a response from someone I think needs to contribute.


@Saki: Claims shouldn't be taken lightly, and there's never reason to vote yourself unless you just want to suicide and yell at town for being incompetent. Okay, well, I did that once, but, yeah, don't.

[Varsoon]

Also, scum would have to be pretty stupid to quickhammer you if you put yourself at L-1 and claimed town.

[Varsoon]

What'll happen instead is that town will hammer you (in most cases) and then day ends, scum gets a NK for free, and wagon analysis turns out terribly given the amount of articulation put into it.

As far as town frustration, it's annoying. Usually, that means that scum is winning and town is being duped into playing town v town. Break that frustration by bringing out compelling, well-articulated cases on your scum-spec

[Varsoon]

Well, I wanted to Vote:Saki and make him flinch, but all this happened while I was out bowling.


So, would this be a poor time to counter-claim Roleblocker?

[Varsoon]

Well, because I am Roleblocker.

Flench could just be, you know, not home and on the site, Saki. See if he's been posting elsewhere?

[Varsoon]

Well, it's not a matter of lying to town. My Role PM says that I am a roleblocker.
Is it possible we're both Roleblockers?

P:EDIT: Then it's safer to assume, given how conversational he's been, that he's AFK. No need to fan the fire on someone who's literally done nothing.

[Varsoon]

@oriole: My RolePM specifically says I can use my Roleblock once each night.

Titus is going to get out of this one because he's town, Saki. It'd be nice if you could build a case on him, rather than a spat.

@Titus: What happens if we lynch Saki and Saki flips Roleblocker? Isn't there a chance that we're both Roleblockers?

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: I will flip Roleblocker if I die.
Also, I will choose the target we agree on. I'd like to talk to all of town about who I should Roleblock.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: I thought of this and figure'd we come up with a pool of folks. Or, you know, not talk about it at all.

@Dyslexicon: Enjoy yourself!

[Varsoon]

At the very least, I'll let you know who I roleblock if we make it to the next day.

[Varsoon]

Nah, I'm not down for a lynch on myself.

@Cherry: Well, if you need me to answer anything, I'd be glad to.

@JMO: Can you articulate why lynching a claimed Roleblocker is a good idea?

[Varsoon]

So, if we're both town roleblockers, you eliminate a huge part of town's PR's with lynches?
Sounds like a bad plan.

[Varsoon]

I've seen strange things as well.

I still stand behind my Saki = scum standpoint. Not so much because of my role and likelihood in the setup, but for all the other points that've already been raised.

[Varsoon]

Titus, no need to speculate on 0 roleblockers.
I am a roleblocker.
Given how I feel about exclusive information, I don't like the position I'm in, but I wasn't going to let someone else claim my role.

[Varsoon]

Fair enough.
Although I've already put forth the effort to explain why Saki should be the lynch.

[Varsoon]

I could explain why your arguments against me are weak, but it'd be pro-scum to do so.

[Varsoon]

Saki, what makes you think you're going to live to see tomorrow?

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Between being the top lynch candidate as of right now and being a claimed PR, chances are slim unless one of us (or both, if you actually are roleblocker) block the right scum. You might be roleblocker as well, but the chances are low and I don't like you as town so far.

@Glass: I'm almost positive that Saki is scum. Still, there's a small chance Saki's Roleblocker and so am I. In that case, well, /shrug. It's a gamble.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Oho? I'm the top lynch candidate? It sure is obvious, given all these votes on me.
Oh, wait, those votes are on you, Cherry, etc.
Only person voting me is JMO, and he won't articulate a compelling case against me, or, well, anyone he votes.

[Varsoon]

If calling someone town is buddying them, I've been made buddies with people far too often in all of my games.

I didn't account for SKs, Vigs, and Doctors because I don't do setup speculation. Please read my posts before looking like a jerk. I explained that in this very thread.

"You're confscum. Once people start reading this thread,

I hope

there will be more talk of voting you."

Fixed it for you.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, he's defending me because he's convinced I'm town. I can soft-confirm this because I'm convinced he's town.

Would you be happy with a titus-mislynch, Saki?

[Varsoon]

Well, shit, if Titus is scum, why is there only one vote on

him

P:EDIT: her?

Vote: Titus

(Sorry if I confuse genders on people. It's nothing personal, yo.)

[Varsoon]

wait, line doesn't work?
What is this world coming to?
@MOD: Fix my line!

Fixed. The HTML is "strike" instead of "line." For future reference.
~DBK

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Messin with Sakisquatch.

@DBK: Righteous. Lines are dope. What does Line do, then? I now see

Strike

in the reply options.

@Saki: How positive are you that Titus is scum?

[Varsoon]

@Saki: So, what happens when we're all town?

[Varsoon]

Jmo's scum. Flench is null/scum.

@Saki: Answer meeeee

[Varsoon]

Okay, cool.

@Titus: What are the chances of you, me, and Saki all being town? Do you think that's possible?

I'm a bit worried that scum's coasting while we duke it out.

[Varsoon]

Titus is town.

Unvote

I'll wait until there's more than 4 people posting before I get back to it. I still think Saki's likely scum, but not as much as I did earlier in the day.

[Varsoon]

I'm pretty much stuck to my computer at this point, so don't expect me to be gone for any length of time.

Anyforwho, you guys pretty much have it right. I really want everyone to be here so I can pressure people rather than shout at a wall, yknow?

I don't feel right about the current Varsoon vs Saki vs Titus thing that's happening.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: I'm no mason, just a roleblocker.
My meta-post was made mostly to give a headache to people who care about the meta.
Post 182 was me denying being a mason, since that's what I figured Titus was hinting at.

[Varsoon]

Mod: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop?

[Varsoon]

I'm always serious when it comes to chocolate.

[Varsoon]

Pretty sure it's three.


Anyway, if you think that my asking DBK the mysteries of the universe is distracting and you'd use it to build antagonism towards me, well...
That's cute, Saki.

[Varsoon]

Vote: Saki

I've given Titus enough of a headache.
Saki, you've gotta go.
On the slim chance you're actually town Roleblocker,
then I guess I'll get lynched D2 and we'll have lost two town Roleblockers. :/

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: It's not a breadcrumb/anything to speculate on.

@Saki: Quickhammering someone at L-1 is null.
I don't need to pressure someone to read them. The interactions my vote-swap and your posts got out of Titus was enough for me to put him in the town pool.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Still null. No scum with a hint of survivalist blood in them would hammer a claimed town PR. Even as a gambit, it's a weak move, since scum's already won in the scenario (outed a town PR).
As for Titus, guess we read folks differently.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Pretty much the conclusion I've come up with. Saki's painting this to be Titus and me buddying/ganging up on him, but the reality is that we're two incredibly separate players who are using very different tactics to pressure and expose Saki's alignment.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: That's what I figured and why I took a vote down for awhile/changed my approach and even gave Saki some town-credence.

[Varsoon]

Agh, Saki, why do you have to make posts like that?
It makes me double back and think
"Shit, maybe Saki is just town and is bunkering down/getting really defensive."

I could see scum-motivation to buddy/defend me and push the person I counter-claimed, leading to a mislynch, which could possibly lead to a second mislynch of me.

Aaaaaaaah fuck.
Paranoia sucks.

[Varsoon]

Unvote

I need time to look at the thread more. Titus is really suspect, but I think he's town. Saki's a believable town who I think is scum. Dunno what to go with.

[Varsoon]

@Dys: Feels like Saki's more newbtown playing defensive then scum manipulating people. Feels like Titus might be manipulating me. Sitting back to see what they have to say.
334 is me entertaining a town-Saki.

[Varsoon]

It feels way more likely that a scum third party would be buddying me/getting me to lynch out a claimed RB than Saki being scum, claiming RB right away, etc etc.
Or, as I proposed earlier, that we've been duped into a three-way town fight.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: What you said.
Saki's claim makes no sense from a town PoV.

[Varsoon]

@Glass: And that's pretty much my hesitation. Given Saki isn't lying about her PR, either of us as today's lynch would be a huge boon for scum.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: My reason for counterclaiming was because I am the Roleblocker, and so if Saki is lying/scum, we caught a scum PR on D1. That's pretty good, regardless of the cost.
Also, if you think I have a consistent meta outside of what I control, try again.
Furthermore, on-site, chatty/nonsense Varsoon is town Varsoon. I can actually link you to Xenoblade Mafia, since it just ended. I died early in the game, flipped VT, and that was one where I was even chattier and proposed a gambit that would get at least two players modkilled.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28572 Just iso me in that game.

@Cherry: Which is why I am hesitant. Titus seems really eager for the Saki lynch, which is null, given the situation. Still, makes me noided.

[Varsoon]

@tunnel: Funny that you came into the thread looking to exploit a lynch. Anywaaaay.
I originally wanted attention so I would come off as VI and wouldn't be a lynch target or NK.
Earlier, in-thread, I explained why explaining my methods would be pro-scum.
Admitting to town what I'm up to equates to admitting to scum as to what I'm up to.
So, yeah, if I don't live through the night, it's due to belligerent rubes like you.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: Cool, let's continue to misrep each other. Anyway, if you think someone is scummy, vote them.

If you want to actually ask me questions, do so directly and bolded. If there's holes in my play, point them out directly besides saying "obvious holes", etc.


@Oriole: I'm hesitant to support a Titus/Saki lynch right now, since I'm growing more and more convinced that this is a townvtown conflict. Now, to confirm we're both Roleblockers, we could let Saki and I live to the night and then we could target each other. Of course, this doesn't account for jailers/other similar roles.

@Saki: Welcome to a Varsoon game. I've been in two record-winning games for most posts in D1.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Mod confirmed in-thread, I think.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Xenoblade is first at 2753 posts.

Anyways,

Vote: Cherry

Feels like you're really trying to sit back and fuel this whole Saki v Varsoon v Titus ordeal.

@Tunnel: I wanted to draw attention to myself so that I would not be a first-day Night Kill, and, like in previous games of mine, come off as Village Idiot rather than a PR.
You may be getting hung up on when I dispelled the idea that I might be a mason. I picked up that Titus was reading VoteMe's "Varsoon is Town" as a mason-crumb and wanted to dispel it because I'd rather not have town misconceive that VoteMe and I are masons.

I'd really like an explanation behind VoteMe calling me town/saying he'd never vote me, since it seems like straightforward buddying.

[Varsoon]

Vote: Cherry

[Varsoon]

@Saki: /shrug. Eventually.

[Varsoon]

On both counts.

[Varsoon]

Because the more that I think about it, it feels like one of our lurkers is sitting back and coasting while we Wifom the fuck out of two RB claims.

[Varsoon]

My first vote wasn't a legal vote.

[Varsoon]

No, a vote needs to be on a single line, so..

Vote: Saki

is legal while

Vote: Saki

is not.

Vote: Cherry

It feels like Cherry is actively participating in pitting us against each other

[Varsoon]

Oh, maybe I'm trippin' hard.

unvote

Who said that the lynch today should be between Titus, Me, and Saki, then?

[Varsoon]

I already suspect Titus
Equally as much as I suspect that if I put a vote on Titus, he'll get lynched, flip town, and then either Saki or me will me mislynched D2.

[Varsoon]

Fuck it, balls deep.

Vote: Titus

[Varsoon]

If he's town, fuck every one of you.

[Varsoon]

Guess so.
Look, I'm 50/50 on this. Fence-sitting won't move the day forward, and I can legit see the arguments for Titus' scumdom.

[Varsoon]

I'm going to attribute my earlier hesitance to vote for him/see him as scum based on a successful buddying/my tunneling on Saki.

[Varsoon]

Until someone makes a very compelling argument otherwise.

[Varsoon]

Thoughts are that I'll handle that if it becomes an issue on D2.

[Varsoon]

@JMO:

Spoiler:

@Titus: Saki's attempts to call me scum are about as effective as a child throwing ice-cubes at the sun.
I don't see how if you're scum, that makes me scum, but it's whatever.
If my hunch is right, you're scum.
If wrong, I should probably stop trusting gut-reads/other players.

[Varsoon]

@Fletch: Looking at everything on paper is really cool, and no one has done that yet in any games I've had. When players do things like that, it makes me really interested and so on.
As far as the content of your stuff goes, scum could always be bussing scum and making distance from each-other, but you do account a bit for that on the truthiness/believable exchanges of the pair of fighters. I think the strongest thing here is the vote severity list, but everything gives a lot of insight on how you think players are operating and how you read people.
Basically, this is the most town thing I could imagine you doing. You've put a lot of effort into something large, tangible, and easily followed for trajectory across the game. The level of engagement and the genuine nature of it ring as soundly town to me.

I think Option 4/3 is what I'd go with now. Could you plot out a 'If Titus is Scum' one?

[Varsoon]

Thanks for being so compliant, Flench.
This really goes a long way, and, if you are town, it'll do an amazing job of proving that later in the game.
If you're scum, it'll have the same effect, since you just provided a lot of hypothetical outlooks that'll play into trajectory of your votes/methods later.
Essentially, you're being as transparent as possible through these last few posts, and I see that as the most town thing a player can do.

[Varsoon]

@Stubbs: I don't like setup speculation and use of exclusive knowledge. It's frustrating for players outside of the claiming PRs to deal with when a PR claims and it's especially useless when people start listing MXBBBTTT or whatnot and Wifom themselves into oblivion.

@Titus: Alternatively, I'm pointing out that Flench is doing a good job and more of the same is welcome later. I'm encouraging a tactic that I haven't seen before. Sure, I've seen lists, but nothing of that magnitude--especially on D1.

@CherryDP: On my vote/unvote of your slot, t'was late and I thought you'd posted a bit to get me riled up against Titus/Saki. Also, I really wanted to see if Titus or Saki would jump on that vote, because it'd confirm them as scum for me. I gave them an opportunity to get out of the quagmire and lynch someone else, but they didn't, so it complicated my reads.
I think that saying "If I die, I flip town roleblocker" is much worse of a statement, because it re-iterates that I'm town, subtly, while giving it the power of a PR claim. Instead, I'd like the discussion to be solely about the PR claim in opposition to Saki's (when discussing the two) instead of an argument of alignment vs alignment--if this makes sense. I don't feel like I need to prove I'm more town than Saki, but that I am actually the role I claimed, which is in somewhat direct conflict with the role Saki claimed.

@Pasche: <3 Alright, lips sealed. I'll stay in thread and comment if I notice something new or in response to anything people have to ask me.

[Varsoon]

@Flench: Don't ever be sorry for posting too much. Posting is the only way the game moves.

[Varsoon]

@Stubbs: Because that's what you do when someone claims your role.


@Cherry/Pasche: I've agreed on the lurker bit for awhile. Is there a good way to get the less active people involved?

[Varsoon]

Posting, articulating votes, giving reads, etc.
How to get them involved?
That's the tricky part.

[Varsoon]

@Flench: Put a vote down, then? The strongest thing you can do to support your views is have an unyielding vote put down.

[Varsoon]

@Dys: 715 represents a shift towards me thinking Saki is town. This wouldn't be the first time I've seen VT claim a PR, and it may be the first time there are double PRs. In any case, I've pulled back from the thought Saki is scum and I'm more worried about the people coasting through D1.
Titus' immediate vote for Saki after my cc seems eager enough. 641 represents my paranoia over Titus, even though logically, it feels like it is an null tell.
If I had regards for the odds, I wouldn't have defeated the Anti-Spiral. So long as it isn't Zero Percent, it's just as good as a hundred percent for me!
I didn't realize there are no Jailers.
Also-also, I figure a RB will know if they are RB'd because of the mod-PM they'll get once it happens.

My shift from voting Saki to voting with Saki marks the cognitive shift that I made when I started reading Saki as town. Right now, I'm about 90% sure Saki is town and 60% sure that Titus is scum. Ergo, I'm calling a Saki lynch a mislynch.

Could you provide a reads-list, please? At least one line justifying each read.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: How so? Being able to actively track where everyone has everyone else is helpful for town, because it allows town to see inconsistencies with greater clarity. If Scum is going to manipulate reads across time, it'll be obvious.

@Titus: Buddying is null. Furthermore, I'd like to encourage Flench to post more because I think he's got a solid town voice and more content from him makes reading him easier and provides a lot for town to work on.
I don't find your case on me to be awfully compelling. It relies on a few things, which seem to be
Either Saki or Varsoon is scum.
and
Varsoon feels disingenuous/buddying.

The first is highly informed by two PR claims, which are both exclusive information that you can not verify unless the player's role is revealed by the mod. If Saki's interaction with me is informing point A, you need to be more overt about that, and build your case there, using direct post numbers/quotes for evidence. Otherwise, I can't really take you seriously.

Onto the second point. I've been actively playing a buddying/VI role hoping that someone would try to build a case on me due to those approaches. Buddying isn't scummy by nature--if anything, town wants some solidarity as well. In fact, a strong town-bloc is hard for scum to beat. Furthermore, scum-buddying backfires quite hard when scum is lynched. Ergo, I don't find buddying to be scummy, but I am aware that others might try to exploit it as so. There's been several times in the game that I've openly applauded town efforts from other players and done things to earn 'town points'. To players who play on the second-level-of-perception, this is scummy, since they see scum as people trying to curry town favor. However, I'm playing on a third-level, which is Town seeming scummy to second-level players in an attempt to find scum who are second-level who would exploit that.

The fact that I've put a vote on you and you've fallen for this trap, making a weak case that exploits exactly the info I put on the table for scum to exploit, makes you 25% scummier to me. This puts you at 85% scumminess, which, for me, is a hard scum-read.

Anyways,

Vote: Titus

This post probably won't make sense to anyone but myself and maybe Kubo.

[Varsoon]

@Tunnel: I could do a point-by-point refutation, but it'd get us nowhere. There's a couple holes in your argument, but the one that really peeves me is that you don't think people can be friends. That's just lame.
Big yawn on your #9, because the 'if we are both town roleblockers' is entertaining the idea of Saki being a town role-blocker as well, rather than if modifying the truthiness of my town-hood. Big difference psychologically. You failed the test. Write a "Meta Note" to yourself for next time, person-who-wants-to-read-people-like-they're-scum-so-he-bullshits-arguments-like-this-one.


@Titus: The level above the first and below the third. People usually use stairs to get there.

[Varsoon]

Essentially, I think Tunnel's on the second level.
Which is why his entire list of points relies on second-level logic.

[Varsoon]

@Cherry: I'm kind'a worn out with refuting points. I made a post earlier where my VI/buddying plays were done consciously so that people would read me as scum. Tunnel just made a case solely off of those points, so, eh, it's really him falling for what I set up. I'd be willing to put a vote on Tunnel because of this poor play/especially opportunistic voting in light of the Titus vote on me, but, really, I'm more sure of Titus being scum. Furthermore, I promised Saki I wouldn't budge my vote unless there came a really good case for Titus being town. There hasn't been.
If you -want- me to do a point-by-point, deft refutation of TV's points, I will.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Hence, why I'm hesitant to do the PBP.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Don't think of it as a hierarchy. Furthermore, each level accounts for a certain perception of events/play. Think of it like a method of decoding WIFOM.
I'll discuss it in further length some other time, right now it's a distraction (mainly put there to see if anyone ((like scum-TV)) would exploit it as such) that doesn't do anything for anyone if it's speculated on.

[Varsoon]

Ah, hell, why not. The thread is moving at a snail's pace anyway.

1) Already admitting to VI play from the onset of the game. Had I not counter-claimed, I would be an unlikely NK target. Now my VI play is solely for WIFOM.
2) I honestly do not know how this setup works. I know it's semi-open, which I think means there's only certain setups possible. My counter-claim was made on the basis that I've never seen a 13-player game with two of the same role in Town.
3) Or I just interpreted you wrong. /shrug. From what I read, you wanted me to explain my gambit, but explaining my gambit loops back to me being more succeptable to NKs and my earlier play being for naught. See 1. Also, you coming into the thread hot and willing to throw fire on people's backs rather than provide analysis of the entire game/playerbase was what I was commenting on in my first line.
4) Surprise, so do I. Please read the thread. If Saki's town, it doesn't make me scum, either. This is a relational-tell based on a read that you're working on, and it's not good evidence in any game.
5) I always have a high post count/lots of noise. If you think that I haven't done anything to hunt scum, then I guess my efforts and pressure are too subtle (not really) for you to pick up? As for having a means out of things, that's another quip on my VI/obvscum play. If you notice, I add one of these after each small bit of pressure I make. A sort of 'but maybe not' addendum.
6) Already talked about buddying being null and a part of my play earlier. Non-game content is null as well. This point feels like it's grasping for straws. If you think people can't be conversational and pally with folks they've been in games with before, I'd be terrified to see you in a veteran game like Xenoblade.
7) I felt pressured into a weird place when Titus not-so-subtly implied that I was a Mason with Vote-me. I should have just ignored him, but, really, it's whatever. Yeah, that was a shitty play on my part.
8) My town motivation for CC'ing RB is because I wasn't aware the setup could have two RBs in it for town. Furthermore, I [AM IN A GAME I CANT TALK ABOUT SO I WONT] have seen VTs claim PRs on D1, which is why I pulled back even harder. My current standing is that Saki is either a VT or is actually a town RB like I am.
9) Already refuted this, and my points on 1 and 2 should further do so.
10) If you're aware of my history on this site, you'd know that I pull more shenanigans than any noob. Try again.
11) The thing that really threw you is another hint I dropped for people around third level. I openly say that being nuts is my town-meta. I then play nuts. People on the second level would understand this is my town meta, but third-level thinking would say that this is an artificial approach. If I was aware of my zany, absurd play being my town-meta, why, as scum, would I preface it with the post about Nacho's analysis of my meta? So that third-level scum players trying to exploit it would be caught by that snare, but, more than that, to laugh forever at people who rely on meta to make cases.
12) No, not really. Saki is hard-town to me right now, with very little chance of changing. I won't be putting a vote on Saki for the rest of this game. Again, good try.
13) It's not nearly fear-mongering as much as it is being cautious. If Saki is really TRB, then that makes us both TRB, which is a terrible thing for us both to be since we've claimed it. Shitty second level players will lynch one, then the other, which would cost two TRBs. If Saki is VT, a similar scenario can unfold, but my lynch is less likely. Regardless, Saki isn't the lynch for today.

There, now if you want to call my refutations crap, or give me any more shit, be my guest. Your case on me denies me agency and intelligence, and that's pretty damn insulting.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Given Saki's noob!town existence, I'm more inclined to say Town RB. Otherwise, I'd be leaning VT. When he claimed, I thought for sure that it was a scum-claiming-town-PR, mostly so that town protective roles would waste time protecting him, etc etc. I wasn't aware Saki was a newer player, and would not likely be a VT claiming a PR/scum doing that either. To me, it reads a lot like a misinformed/noobtown PR claim that's truthful--this means it's either fourth-level play or first-level play. I'm gonna say first.

It's personal game theory that helps me a lot with WIFOM cases and inspection of play.
Second-level thinking is thinking/posting methods that go against direct-play. For instance, scum playing town, or a town PR acting like they're not a town PR.
Third-level play is usually someone faking second level play. So, town acting scummy in order to get expose scum who make cases on them. It's an approach that manipulates second-level play.

[Varsoon]

So, like the example I gave about determining if Saki was making a first-level or fourth-level play;

A first-level play is TRB Saki claiming TRB because that's what his role is. Saki is X and is acting like X.
A second-level play would be VT Saki claiming TRB. Saki is Y and is acting like X.
A third-level play would be scum-Saki claiming TRB with the fall-back/crumb of being a VT claiming TRB. Saki is Z and is acting like Y acting like X.
A fourth-level play would be scum-Saki, acting like noobtown, claiming TRB. Saki is Z, but is acting like A and B (Noob and Town), acting like X.

[Varsoon]

I'm TRB playing VI playing Scummy. So I'm X acting like B acting like Z.

Honestly, I might just break back down to first-level play, since the third level gambit I was gonna roll with is useless now.

[Varsoon]

@TV: I didn't look at any of the setup because it's pointless to do so in most cases. Since our setup is randomizes, Setup speculations amounts to WIFOM. I'd still likely counter-claim even if I had known there could be a possible two RB.
Assuming scum isn't Level-one, we'll most likely live. Level one scum would kill us, but higher level scum would keep us alive, since it jeopardizes town and creates lots of WIFOM. If scum kills us both, then they're dipping down two telegraphed NKs that can easily be protect role'd/blocked--and they're not actively NK'ing out of a now-smaller pool of people who may be other PRs. So, honestly, it does make sense at level 3, assuming our scum are playing on a higher level, which, at the very least, they're 2.

I honestly have no clue how the semi-open setup works, what the letters mean when people write things like TTTBBBX or what significance C9++ has.

If that makes me stupid, well, eh, it was a part of my VI gambit to come into the game knowing nothing. I couldn't -fake- knowing nothing, so I didn't do any research.

Sorry for being a bit arrogant. I felt like you were being insulting when you dropped points like 2, 6, and 11 on me in Post 793. /shrug.
It's cool, and you parsing things out and play between 793 and 812 is actually really good pressure on me.

[Varsoon]

To create WIFOM for scum. Fourth level play, etc etc.

Also, yeah, I'm aware I said two different reasons for not looking up the setup. They're both true, and both at the core of why I didn't check it out.

[Varsoon]

Please focus on the lurkers. I could entertain you guys all day, but it wouldn't get us anywhere.

[Varsoon]

A bit of both, but mostly third. Any fourth-level stuff I'm doing is to call attention to third-level stuff I'm doing in a hope that I can still continue to run a WIFOM gambit on scum.

Anyone who's in the game and doesn't post regularly, but is still posting from time to time.
For the most part, it feels like people are inactive in this game, which is a problem, since active-lurking is so easy to pull off and so hard to condemn without it seeming like a policy lynch.

[Varsoon]

I said it probably only makes sense to me. Engaging me on it is pretty useless as far as this current game goes. We should actually focus on the game, rather than the absurd game-theory that I'm approaching it with.

@Titus:
The average player in this game has about 57 posts. There's a big hike in posts from Cherry (at 75) and me (120) and an even bigger one between you (137) and Saki (200).
Here are the people who have no business having really low post-counts:
Vote Me -(5)- Vote me had a V/LA but said he'd catch up on Wednesday. It's now Saturday. He either needs to replace out or start posting some content.
Dyslexicon -(6)- Comes in, posts some things, leaves. Doesn't V/LA to back up large absences. Quotes posts throughout the game, which shows he follows the thread.
Tunnel Vision -(20)- Is really inactive despite being a hydra. Feels like the case on me was pulled out to earn townpoints despite lurking fairly hard. Given how many points against me analyze my activity in the whole game, it's arguable.
Glass -(29)- Says life has been busy, but hasn't called a V/LA. Interaction has been sketchy at times, but I'm leaning Glass as town. Still, needs to actually get his head in the game.
JMO -(38)- Definitely active-lurking. Peeks his head in from time to time to vote on wagons and never give reasons why. My highest scum candidate next to Titus. In fact, most of us have him as scum, which makes it really awkward when the only person voting him is Stubbs.

Come on, guys. The fucking mod has 59 posts. He's the mod. He's not even actively responding to anything but questions directed to him, and posting a vote-count every page or so. If you don't have more posts than

the fucking mod

then your posts had better have some damn good content.

On a much different note,

Vote: JMO

Second-guessing the Titus wagon.

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: Right on. I guess I feel a bit nervous to play games straight since getting lynched then is painful. I've had some really, really unfortunate mislynches when I've played straight, then I played straight a bit as scum (and it worked, sadly) so there's a subconcious nagging that playing a game straight doesn't work when I'm town but it does when I'm scum. Regardless, I do think that's what I should do here. All of my play so far has collapsed on itself like a house of cards, and while it was amusing at the time, it's creating way too much distraction/wifom for town (and I don't know how much for scum, which was the intent).

@DBK: Eeep, sorry. I just can't stand when players aren't very active in games they /in'd to. Like I said, the average post number is around 60. People at less than 30 should really step it up.

@Oriole: I see it as JMO writing off Titus/buddying him to get some sort of reaction and Titus not being receptive to it. Titus probably also doesn't want to be called noobtown, regardless. Ultimately, the interactions paint JMO as scummy and Titus as less-so, or at least, not willing to participate in whatever JMO has cooking up.

I want to hear more from Glass, Stubbs, Dyslex, Jmo, and Vote Me.

THIS.

Also, some questions for the people who are here:
@Pasche: While you bring up a good point about Tunnel's case on me, do you feel that this makes Tunnel more scum because he's so passionately pushing my lynch or that he's just town with points that you see not being effective?
@Saki: Other than the wall you're putting up, can you tell me how you feel about the current situation between us? As in, do you feel like my counter-claim is true, and, furthermore, do you think that I'm scum/town?
@Titus: Do you feel that you should continue to focus on Saki and I, or that you should broaden your perspective and catch related information that might condemn players outside of 2/13 of the game?
@Oriole: How do you feel about Tunnel's case on me, about Pasche's dismantling of the case, and about my play until this point?
@Everyone: How should we encourage/get the lurkers/inactive players to be more active?

[Varsoon]

Messed up my bold tags.
I'm a rube, after all.

Fixed.
~DBK

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Sorry that you read it as such. Lots of your effort in D1 so far has focused on reading between Saki and I. You've provided some info on other players, but what I'm getting at is whether or not others will be you focus for the rest of the day or if you can't see the day ending without a lynch between Saki and I. Your answer gets to this, so I'm satisfied with it.

I'll try to keep my walls of posts to a minimum, but I can't promise anything.

How many scum are there in this setup? I assumed 3, since that's how many 13 player games typically have, but I could be wrong--as I already have been about the setup so far.

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: I think we can all agree that some of our lurkers are less pro-town/more scummy than others. This is why I have a vote on JMO, because I feel he's the worst offender. Does your vote on Vote Me reflect your sentiments in 847?

[Varsoon]

@Pasche: Yeah, that's what I mean. Do you find him to be the most anti-town lurker, or is your vote there for any other reason?

[Varsoon]

I'm not attacking Saki 'cus he's town.
Also, I didn't read the setup, still haven't read the setup, and so on.
I'm not a liar, Titus.
I might be a jerk, but not a liar.

[Varsoon]

Also-also, I believe Saki because I believe Saki. We had good interactions since my CC.
Double-also, you're missing something big, Titus.

[Varsoon]

Link it to me?

One percent is not something you can ignore. Allow me to give you an example:
I've been playing Rogue Legacy lately. In it, you up your character's stats over time. I don't waste my resources increasing my crit chance, so it's still at 2%.
Regardless, there have been several tense situations where I had to hit an enemy twice to kill it, but I landed a critical hit, killed it in one hit, and was able to continue without dying.

I don't like speculating on the setup. I'd rather read people based on what they contribute to the game, and so on. If you continue to define my play by the way you approach games, you probably won't be able to see the motivation behind a lot of the plays I make.

What makes me certain that Saki is town is that the interaction we've had is genuine, and Saki's come off as newb-town who thought he had to claim at L-1, as in, seriously thought that. I put all the pressure I could on Saki to make sure it was true. I CC'd Saki, voted Saki, got a wagon to L-3 on Saki, and all of what Saki did during that time proved that Saki is town. Saki's responses were genuine, he felt defensive, he held by his claim without pulling back from it, and so on. I probed it pretty hard, and figured out that Saki was simply playing town the way Saki felt town should be played, with no gimmicks, tricks, and so on.

So, Saki's town.

[Varsoon]

Reading the setup now.

Yeah, it's a low chance of it being possible.
Didn't you just write "For someone willing to take risks like Varsoon, he seems awfully reluctant to lynch a CCer that's almost certainly scum."
Isn't it an even bigger risk for me to be going with the 1% chance?

Why does anyone ever put everything on 0 in roulette?
Gambling is fun.

Furthermore, there's 3/4 scum to catch. If Saki is scum, he's got to walk on eggshells for the rest of the game. IMO, the better play isn't to lynch the likely scum before you, but to spend the resources you have (in this case, time and votes) to lynch the scum that's flying under your radar.

[Varsoon]

See, this is why you're having trouble following me, and, ergo, reading me as scum.
I don't play by the same rules.

[Varsoon]

Well, seeing as no one wants to take me up on the JMO wagon and he's 'returned to the game', my vote is more useful elsewhere.

Vote: TunnelVision

Drawing a line in the sand.
Also, while Titus doesn't understand how I can play the way I do, it's way more endearing to keep her around. May be scum, but has a very straight-laced town way of approaching situations which, if town, is a strong thing to have. If scum, will backfire hilariously.
Besides, "No one should be as blase as Varsoon." is so good I wanna put it in my siggy.

[Varsoon]

Anyways:

@Titus: You're being bogged town way too much in making today a 1v1 issue. There's a lot more going on than that. Furthermore, you claimed that I'm trying to distance myself/punt away the Saki v Varsoon thing so I can get more mislynches/chaos, when the confirmed-town agrees that it's unhealthy for town to focus on the 1v1 issue. Every line you sink is a barb, attacking me from a different angle. You've proposed a million ways I could be scum/SK/anti-town. Put some of that effort into finding scum rather than decrying me, will ya?

@Tunnel: Doesn't seem like I can say anything to reason with you. I hope you realize how scum-motivated the wagon on me is, though. If you have any questions for me, ask them and stuff, I guess.

@Flench: Don't like your vote, it feels like you're hopping onto the wagon that's headed over the cliff just 'cus. Regardless, I don't know if that makes you scum, or just sheep.

@Everyone else: Can someone do a wagon analysis of my wagon? The fact it's at L-2 with so many opportunistic votes makes me think there's scum there. Could be wrong, though, and since I'm biased, someone else should check it out.

[Varsoon]

Tunnel please answer the plausibility regarding Cherry/Varsoon. I'll give my thoughts after I just have to verify you're not sheeping me.

I'm not sheeping. I feel like I'm reading something I wrote every time you post. It's friggin terrible. I'll probably never play a game of mafia with you again.... Unless I play it on the third or fourth level and you stay on level one or two. Then I could play my role and pretend to be a village idiot pretending to be scum pretending to be a power role. That might work... But you'd lynch me on D1 for defying logic.

When number 2 gets here, he'll probably say "Number 1 huh? Your mom is number 1. For the love of god, somebody NK Titus... I can't stand 2 bauss's. And Pasche is right, we should lynch a lurker."

I'll bet good money on the above.

-1-

<3

[Varsoon]

@Saki: The idea is that any scum on my wagon can use the excuse that they were just lynching based off of the low probability of us both being town.
Ergo, we don't get much info.
Also, you should realize that a lot of the good info surrounding me was produced because I asked for it or put myself in a position for other players to create content.

[Varsoon]

I'm not lying, I really didn't read the setup going into the game. I read it when Titus linked me it, though.

Well, TV, the fair and simple thing is that my case on you is largely OMGUS and rooted in seeing your jump onto my wagon out of lurking as an opportunity grabbing sort of effort. So, all in all, it's pretty weak outside of my own PoV. I'm hoping that by pushing your wagon, I can expose you as town/scum and get reactions out of a lot of other people in the game. I've milked the Saki vs Varsoon thing for about 20 pages, so I figured I'd shift gears and get as much content on the D1 table as possible.

You're a cooler guy than I give you credit, TV.

[Varsoon]

Other than myself as scum? I'd pick TV or Titus or JMO. Titus is the most town of the batch. Explained why I don't like the others.

Other than Pasche as town? Saki. Already explained this as well.

Defending a scummy player =/= scum. You'll lose with that attitude.

[Varsoon]

Bloopdeboop,

So, why don't we consolidate votes and end the day soon?

[Varsoon]

Oreo, you are double-stuffed.
Also, I agree with Flench!Town, am skeptical of Stubbz, and I think Oriole is town too.

[Varsoon]

Damn, CherryDP, that's cold.
And probably true.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Hey, do you have a fever? it's gettin' hell'a cold in this thread.

Just won a perfect scum game if anyone wants to check it out, Calvin and Hobbes Mafia.

Anyways, I agree with Cherry on this one, but I'm hesitant on the Titus vote until we get more to analyze on that slot. For now, TV's the best lynch.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Saki's not my scum partner.

[Varsoon]

@Flench: Use the brain-thing. My lynch is bad because it's an easy way out. You know who'll fly under the radar on my lynch? Scum. Ergo, my lynch, regardless of alignment and exclusive info, is garbarge.

[Varsoon]

JMO, there better be actual content.

Cheer up, life's grand.

[Varsoon]

Hey Xiao. We're in a bit of a pickle here.
Glass and the guy you just replaced have been missing for awhile,
My wagon's at L-3,
I counter-claimed Saki, who claimed Town RoleBlocker
You should probably read the setup or else everyone will treat you like an idiot,
Paschendale is confirmed town.

[Varsoon]

Yeah

@Varsoon: So first you say you counter claimed because you didn't know the setup, then you claim there was the possibility of you both being town, so now you know the setup and you say you're counter claiming again?
Why is with the AtE as soon as the replacement steps in?

-Sakura Hana

I did claim because I didn't know the setup.
There is a possibility we're both town--I was informed of this after my CC.
Now I know the setup and I'm not counter-claiming again, because I still think Saki is town.
There's no appeal to emotion there, Cherry. I was simply laying out the major things that've happened on D1. We're on page 40, it's not exactly easy to catch up.
Unless you meant the part about reading the setup? Because that -is- true. Everyone's been on my ass about it.

@Xiao: The pickle isn't in the fact that I'm at L-3, but that we're on page 40 with an early CC to Roleblocker in a semi-open setup and no one has been lynched yet. We've got lurkers for days and people scrambling hard for lynches while others are actively fighting against them.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: I feel like the simple truth is that he, like me, started believing that you actually were town. Titus can't deny LOGIC, so Titus instead figured if you were more town, I must be scum. Otherwise, the only motivation I could see for the swap is that your wagon deflated and Titus hopped on the next most likely one. I would be happy voting Titus today, but I feel like TV is really where the scum is at, and so do a few other people who I have hard town-reads on.

@Oriole: Yeah, I claimed scum in that game on D1 and just had a perfect scum win. I claimed scum in this game, too.

[Varsoon]

@Cherry, it's like you didn't even read my response.
Also, please, search setup in the searchbar. Hell, I can do it for you if you want. There's more than one person saying things like "Varsoon wouldn't be so stupid to enter the game without reading the setup", etc etc.

@TV: It wouldn't work as WIFOM if it wasn't true 100%, though. Still, your argument is good.

@Titus: Sorry for using he instead of she. It's okay, it's not like I'm consciously getting your gender mixed up. Furthermore, can we actually focus on the game? It feels like you guys are still swirling around in the WIFOM hurricane.


P-EDIT:
@Titus: You're so hungry for the lynch, chill out.
@Cherry: Just vote me if you want to vote me.
@Saki: You'll live.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Unless both town and mafia are stupid, you should live.

Also, for cherry:
"First, anyone who thinks that Varsoon isn't bullshitting loudly when he says he didn't read the setup is dumber than Vars is acting."
Flench's third point in 907.
"The reality is, I think he's smart. I think he's too smart to counter claim without looking at the game setup first"
"Not Reading the Setup - I don't buy anyone not reading the setup. It's one thing to miscomprehend but I don't think anyone deliberately ignores the setup."
". Meanwhile, Varsoon is smart enough to know that fake claiming is dangerous in this setup. I don't really believe him when he says that he doesn't understand the setup, but that's another one of his attempts at clever ploys."
"I expected that a competent and intelligent player such as yourself would've read the intro posts from the mod, and looked at the game setup options."


Those are the most damning ones.
There's been a lot of not-related-to-the-game WIFOM just because I didn't read the setup, so that's why I told Xiao that he should.
C'mon, step it up.


@Titus: You've been focusing on things that aren't relevant for awhile.
When does the day end? You're actively telling people "jump on this wagon!"
No need to be a jerk to Cherry with your response.

@TV: Maybe I

am

wrong about you.

unvote

[Varsoon]

oh, gotta make that legal.

unvote

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, let's break this down.
My wagon's either scummy, or scum is in the lurkers. There's no way I hit L-3 without being lynched, given the evidence that was on me.
If scum is in the lurkers, this is a huge problem. I called for a consolidation of votes earlier, but we've got six players not voting on either of the larger wagons, which signifies dissonance between town OR scum being among these outlying voters.
Also, I'm skeptical of Xiao's replacement. Xiao, can you give any explanation of why you think that Vote Me (the person you replaced) said that he'd never vote Varsoon? Furthermore, can you contribute transparently towards the game in a way that lets us know your alignment?
Glass is getting a replacement, too, so that slot is an wildcard as well.


Again, I apologize for the smoke and mirrors. If you want me to tell you something truthful, then I will. Just ask directly. Don't WIFOM it or beat around the bush.
Furthermore, I'll be playing as Pasche suggested--as level one as I can.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: 180? Hardly. I'm just starting to see the town motivation in TV's case against me, rather than otherwise, where I saw it as a lurker coming out of hiding to actively push a growing wagon. Post 1101 reeks of town, too.
Sorry about throwing scum-reads around, just thinking aloud.

Also, you won't die on N1. You'll only get lynched if town is stupid, and scum wants you to exist until people stop thinking to protect you at night/until lylo. You're useful to both teams right now, and so if either kills you, they've made a mistake that'll cost them the game.

[Varsoon]

If someone brings something damning to the table about TV, there's a good chance I'll be back on that wagon. For now, I'm too caught up in my own shenanigans for my vote to be anything but bait. I'm going to sit it out.

@Stubbs: I agree that rushing the day is the worst thing town can do in any situation. Please, catch up with the thread and provide your thoughts. You're difficult to read right now, so I'd really like to see more content out of you.

[Varsoon]

Oh, so two weeks from now? Sure is winding down.
We have ~5 slots that have given town no information. It's foolhardy to go into D2 while there's still so many lurkers and a replacement pending.
I actually did have a case on him, I apologize that it wasn't a wall of text with quotes left and right. You can continue to misrep me with slanderous lines like "You never gave a good reason for voting him and now that people aren't jumping on and realizing there was no case, your vote leaves. Scummy timing."
But I hope that town will see how terrible you're being. ISO me for the case, or ask for it straightforwardly. Don't lie to town and say there was no case.

Vote: Titus

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Yeah, and I wasn't calling for it now, but earlier. The fact that it didn't happen is significant and worth tracking.
On the VoteMe front, I'm digging for info from someone with the same slot. That slot hasn't produced information other than "Never voting Varsoon", and I want to know if Xiao has any idea why. This not only lets us see Xiao's approach to that aspect of the game, but also lets us track Xiao's rationale from this point to any one later.


@Saki: Oh. Yeah, that is a 180.
Pasche confirmed that my play was getting us nowhere and I realized it was. We haven't lynched out of any of the major wagons yet, and there's still a large amount of lurkers hiding underneath the torrent of WIFOM I created. I was originally shooting to confuse and expose scum, but the town got caught up in it as well, so it didn't work out. Instead, playing straightforwardly should get us the most results from here on out.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Which one?

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I probably should.
I crumbed this, but I doubt it'll gain much credence.
I'm just vanilla town. I've been trying to expose Saki's PR claim as truthful or not, which is why I backed down when I found out that it was.
I was also trying to make myself the N1 NK through being really suspicious, but that option also dried up.
I think it's best if I be straightforward from here on out.
I also mentioned Calvin and Hobbes mafia, since a very similar play happened early on with Zoidberg. The scum-claim and other elements were red herrings.
Of course, revealing this will probably make town really angry, so understand why I am hesitant to do so now.

[Varsoon]

Or, at least, -was- hesitant. Like I said, I think playing level one is the best play I can make right now.

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Didn't back off then because it would seem opportunistic and the last thing I wanted was people lynching me under false pretenses.
Let me dig up the crumbs.

@Saki: All it takes is for someone else to command a strong enough voice and presence.

[Varsoon]

Besides, had I backed off 500 posts ago, I wouldn't have all the info I have now.

[Varsoon]

Spoiler:

38 is the first giveaway. I talk about mixing things up, but this is really in regards to my usual 100% claimrate. I figured that it was an established enough meta for me by now that I could pull off mixing it up. Also, mixing up the claim to see what people would say speaks towards my entire play-style so far, as opposed to 'Everyone claims town', which was something I didn't want to do. VT claiming VT early does nothing for town.

127 is in direct reference to 38, but the red herring is that it is in reference to my scum-claim.

135 speaks to the red-herrings and that I'm VT claiming scum in this game. I want to laugh at people who would use my meta against me.

184 speaks towards the controlled variables I am playing with and prefaces my fake-claim.

318 prefaces my paranoia towards Titus and my plays for the next 700 posts to come.

334 isn't the first time I mention 'town v town' or 'town vs town' instead of typing out Town Versus Town. Why? I'm VTown/VarSoon Town.

536 and around there is when I start letting up on the two roleblocker thing. I though it'd be a good fake-claim to pressure Saki into revealing alignment and get reads out of others, but I hadn't read the setup and so here and around I start trying to drop VT hints without coming out and saying it. I later decide to put more pressure on the points, and figure that Saki is definitely town and titus is likely town, but I get scum vibes.

590: Specifically talking about breadcrumbs and denying that it was one. In truth, I was wrapping myself in layers of lies/falsehoods, and at the core, I'm very serious about chocolate--or, in this case, finding scum. Chocolate is the opposite of Vanilla, as well, and at this point in the game I was trying to be as chocolate as possible.

766: " I don't feel like I need to prove I'm more town than Saki, but that I am actually the role I claimed, which is in somewhat direct conflict with the role Saki claimed." Not saying -the role that I am-, but, rather, what I claimed.

791: Essentially sets up for another crumb I was planning on, but that... I'm VT playing TRB playing VI playing Scum. I'm fourth level. Varsoon is 4th level. V4. Vtown (Town has 4 letters). I never got to it, since I ditched the whole levels thing. In 815 I hint towards that, but I feel like it'd be too overt of a crumb to go further.

807: Around here I start having lines like "leaning VT" and a lot of other drops of VT.

809: I mention the crumb of being VT in third level play.

Anyways, I think there's some other ones, but these are the major ones I can recall off the top of my head and search out. The biggest ones I remember are the levels one, the meta-flipping, the drops of VT/talk of people crumbing VT, the ones that have to do with certain parts of my rhetoric on my fake-claim of RB, and the chocolate/vanilla one.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Men don't crumble under pressure.
As far as TV goes, he's town. Also, I told you to ISO me for -my- case on TV. You read me wrong. Please, relax.

Unvote

Feeling like Titus is town as well after all the shit I've given her. Going back to my point of the Saki v Titus v Varsoon thing is town v town v town. I might not have caught any scum in my snares, but I got some town, which is good enough.
Now, we just wait to see who exploits my VT claim. If no one does, we go about actually scum hunting once we can get everyone in the thread. Sound good?

@Saki: Hey, I might be a shitlord, but I am not a douchebag.

[Varsoon]

Flench, you realize how scummy that sounds, right?
You want to string me up now because if I have time, I might prove my innocence?
Honestly, if you feel so worried about me, lynch me on D2 or D3. As of now, I've provided enough Wifom to make scum waste a NK or PR on me, which is good enough. I can say things like this due to the WIFOM already created. I can bluff right at scum because of what I've done and they have no way of knowing if I'm a PR or not, and so I'm high-risk for scum to keep alive.

Instead, Flench, you should be tracking my logic through the entire game with the knowledge that I am VT. A lot of my actions make a lot more sense once you know that.

[Varsoon]

In fact, this is exactly what I'm talking about in 1044.

Vote: Flench

[Varsoon]

Serious, I'm not lying from my VT claim forward. I'm sorry for being like that so far.

It's not that Flench is mad. You see, you're mad, or at least, upset with it.
Flench called for an instant lynch, without giving town the time to think it over.
That's not town, in my books, and I'd like for Flench to answer for it.
This is the way I prescribe active-pressure.
Flench is one of my townier reads, but that last play pinged scum for me.
So I'm voting there and seeing what he says in response.

[Varsoon]

Couple that with the double "how stupid would you feel" AtE.

[Varsoon]

Not satisfied with that response, Flench. You can't just take your ball and go home on the vote.
I can understand that you're angry, but make your plays based on logic rather than frustration.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think that with a basic understanding of how I play on this site, coupled with knowledge of me being VT, it's easy to see why I'd make the plays I did.

[Varsoon]

@Xiao: Yeah, that was the other crumb I think I forgot. I made a point of mentioning other games and a -certain ongoing one- that I linked right when it finished--Calvin and Hobbes Mafia. In that game, two different VT players claimed PRs so that they could better gauge their peers. I thought it was a pretty viable tactic so I crumbed that game and CC'd Saki in this one.

[Varsoon]

Harsh, Titus.
I won because I made several plays that locked me in as confirmed town. I could discuss Calvin and Hobbes mafia for days and explain the manifold ways I went about winning that game and ensuring a perfect win for my scum-team, but I wont. Feel free to look at that game if you want a good example of my scum play at its finest. Otherwise, check out my 3P Lylo game run by 4nxi3ty.

If you don't believe my crumbs that I've posted, then ISO me and look through my posts with the knowledge that I am VT. It should be fairly obvious what my motivations are throughout the game and you should be able to see plenty hints towards my true role/alignment.

[Varsoon]

@Jmo: Please give us something with more content or replace out of the game.

[Varsoon]

I am pretty incapable of being mad after cat mafia.

If you don't have time for the game, replace out.
otherwise, contribute more.

[Varsoon]

Already addressed that in my response to Oriole. It was too soon and would seem too opportunistic to claim VT then.

[Varsoon]

Besides, I feel that you're biased, Titus. I could say that I ate a hamburger for lunch and you'd call me out on it.
Can you do something other than tunnel me?

[Varsoon]

Fair enough, but, again, I urge you to put some of your analytic clout towards other elements of the game.

[Varsoon]

People on my wagon, JMO's vote flipping, lurkers, Xiao's comments and Xiao in general, Flench.

I'm doing what I can, but it feels like my hands are tied. If I push too hard on too many points, It feels like people will discredit me with the typical "Looking for a way out" sort of response.

[Varsoon]

You didn't respond to it.
Also, you haven't argued why you've put a vote on anyone, making your votes look highly suspicious and opportunistic.

[Varsoon]

I don't know why Glass dropped off the face of the map,
the people that came to defend me when I was looking my scummiest--especially Cherry.
Like I said, I felt the conflict between me, Saki, and you was a good excuse for scum to vote onto whatever wagon was most likely to tip and to skulk about in the shadows. I'd pay attention to voting patterns during each shift of that conflict, which I really tried to tip all three ways.

@Pasche: You, TV, and others, I believe.
Also, there's no scum motivation for me to claim VT. It dispels anything I would've been working towards before now and strips me of credibility.
Ach, it feels like everyone's out to get me, with rhetoric like "Varsoon's ice is getting thinner" and things like that.

[Varsoon]

Also, yeah, DBK, you're kicking ass as a mod. Don't sweat it.

[Varsoon]

@JMO: I've already attacked most people who are posting.
Also, I'm currently pushing/pressuring on Flench.

[Varsoon]

Sure.
Saki claimed RoleBlocker on day 1. I wanted to pressure Saki to see if this was true, and, furthermore, if Saki wasn't scum RB claiming Town RB.
Conclusion: Saki is town Roleblocker.
Titus defended me and went up against Saki. I wanted to see if Titus was buddying scum opportunistically pushing Saki's lynch off of my fake CC or simply town.
Conclusion: Titus is town.
TunnelVision rained hell on my with an offensive case. I wanted to see if TV was scum pushing an opportunistic case on me or if he was town pushing a case he believes in.
Conclusion: TV is town.
JMO's been putting down votes haphazardly and not giving reasons why. I wanted to see if I could be extra scummy and see if he'd rationalize on those, come up with his own content, or stay as he is.
Conclusion: JMO is lurk-scum.
CherryDP seems to be pushing lynches out of the Saki v Titus v Varsoon pool for awhile. I wanted to see if my pushing cases on the other two would cause Cherry to vote-swap and if my being scummier would do so as well.
Conclusion: Null-leaning-scum based on the votes Cherry has made.


Those are the best conclusions I have right now. I sorted out a lot of players who I was having trouble reading immediately. I was hoping that I could see if Glass and Vote Me were just buddying early on, but they replaced out, so I guess I won't know any time soon.

[Varsoon]

Welcome the game, Bulbazak. Have fun catching up.

[Varsoon]

There, I've done more work on D1 than anyone here. Take it or leave it.

[Varsoon]

Sorry if I sound arrogant, but I've been leading town all day, even if it was through absurd gambits and tricky tricks.
I've collected more info than anyone else here, and most info that others have collected is due to my interactions and agency.

[Varsoon]

@Cherry: Not helping town at all? Have you read my last few posts about what I've found?

I've already got scum in the pocket and I am working on a second read.
That's more than most people can say D1, especially in this game.


@Saki: My VT play has been solely to expose info for town/scumhunt. Also, I am hoping that I've wifom'd scum enough to where they are unsure of if they should NK/waste a night action on me or not.

[Varsoon]

See what I mean about bias and rhetoric?

[Varsoon]

@Xiao: They both -do- have votes on me. :/

@TV: You're too damn good as town, I really do look forward to another game with you where I'm not doing backflips.
Still, I think you've got it wrong, but I have info you don't (my role pm).

[Varsoon]

I've argued my case about as much as I can.
If you want to ask me questions rather than explain how anti-town I am, please feel free to do so.

[Varsoon]

Still waiting for people to fulfill what I asked in my 1074 and 1080.

P-EDIT:
@Xiao: Mislynches have to be compelling.
Sadly, I can see the town motivation for people like TV voting me.
Titus and Saki have more posts than me--sorry for my high level of noise.
How caught up are you?

[Varsoon]

Because I'm not scum and I wasn't too worried about having a strong breadcrumb?
Red-Herrings and the associated crumb on the Calvin/Hobbes drop.
Oh, which QT?

Just bold your posts and speak directly to Pasche. Also, yeah, chum it up. Being friends is what this is all about.

[Varsoon]

@Xiao, At this point, if we all gained a dollar for every time someone asked JMO to post real content, we'd have enough to fill our gas tank, in England probably.

hahahahahahahaha

[Varsoon]

Or I'm a VT who didn't read the setup who counter-claimed.

Get to a computer.

[Varsoon]

Hey, look, I admit, it was some shenanigans. Let it rest.
JMO's scummy as hell, what makes you say he's town? He's coasted to this point and pushed my lynch since the day began without every explaining -why-.

You didn't lynch Saki, though.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: It's depressing, we won't win any awards.
Also, Cherry's just realizing he can't coast forever, so he's pushing through on a lynch he can pull out of reasonably when I flip.

[Varsoon]

Also, the pass of responsibility is because Cherry feels like Pasche will lynch me and it earns Cherry town points.
Congrats.
Cherry-Flench-JMO found.
GG.

[Varsoon]

@cherry: Refute the scum motivation to do so, then.

[Varsoon]

JMO won't slow down or hold up because he's scum. Same goes for Flench.
Now, to see if the people who said they'd pull out actually do so.

P-EDIT: Don't be so spineless, Titus. You know that Pasche wants the hammer.

[Varsoon]

I already claimed level 4, Saki.

[Varsoon]

Vote: JMO

Because Flench is basically AFK forever and JMO's here to respond to pressure.
If scum wanted to fast-hammer me, they would have done it. This makes me think scum is already on my wagon.
Check-mate, Cherry, Flench, JMO.

[Varsoon]

Keep trying to earn town-points, Cherry.
Just because you can't play above my actions doesn't mean they've hurt town. I've already outlined how much work I've done for town.
You're being stubborn at this point.

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, your post of giving the hammer to the IC exonerates you of any guilt of hopping on my wagon.
It's the perfect crime for Scum/SK.