Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[CherryDrPepper]

>At first you say that you were counter claiming before you didn't know the setup.
>Then you say that you could both be town while you still didnt read the setup.
>You read the setup then you say that you counter claimed because you didnt read the setup.
>976 You mention it again as a counter-claim by saying: "I counter-claimed Saki, who claimed Town RoleBlocker" Not to mention the AtE by >saying that you're viewed as idiot for not reading the setup pre-emptively to the replacement's entrance.
>Now you say that you didn't mention counter-claiming.

Why are you town again?

-Sakura Hana

[Saki]

The only reason that I don't want to lynch Varsoon today is because him living into N1 means a greater chance for me to live to see D2.

If y'all are risking that then okay go ahead with lynching him.

[Does Bo Know]

Votecount 1.39

[L-3] Varsoon - Dyslexicon, Titus, TunnelVision, Flench
[L-4] TunnelVision - CherryDrPepper, Paschendale, Varsoon
[L-6] jmo16mla - StubbsKVM
[L-6] Titus - Saki
[L-6] StubbsKVM - oriole

Not Voting: Xiao Long, Glass, jmo16mla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, August 2nd, 2013 at 7:30 PM CST ((expired on 2013-08-02 19:30:00)).

---

Currently looking for a replacement for Glass.

[Titus]

Saki, you should be fine with dying. Yes, it sucks to lose an rber at night, but that also supposes there is no doctor to save you. The doctor would most likely camp on your house. Even if there is no doctor, Varsoon getting lynched and Saki dying is a perfect 1 for 1 trade at the start of the game.

For your own future reference, it's best to play to want to survive as a PR but don't sabotage the group's efforts because you fear dying.

[Titus]

>At first you say that you were counter claiming before you didn't know the setup.
>Then you say that you could both be town while you still didnt read the setup.
>You read the setup then you say that you counter claimed because you didnt read the setup.
>976 You mention it again as a counter-claim by saying: "I counter-claimed Saki, who claimed Town RoleBlocker" Not to mention the AtE by >saying that you're viewed as idiot for not reading the setup pre-emptively to the replacement's entrance.
>Now you say that you didn't mention counter-claiming.

Why are you town again?

-Sakura Hana

Then why won't you vote him? Why did you ignore my posts detailing the arguments to lynch Varsoon, why the 180?

[CherryDrPepper]

Myself alone am not responsible for the vote, this hydra has 2 heads and im only voting on what we both agree, even if DP did vote for TV without me specifically agreeing to it, i still rather consult him first because i'm nice like that.

-Sakura Hana

[Varsoon]

@Cherry, it's like you didn't even read my response.
Also, please, search setup in the searchbar. Hell, I can do it for you if you want. There's more than one person saying things like "Varsoon wouldn't be so stupid to enter the game without reading the setup", etc etc.

@TV: It wouldn't work as WIFOM if it wasn't true 100%, though. Still, your argument is good.

@Titus: Sorry for using he instead of she. It's okay, it's not like I'm consciously getting your gender mixed up. Furthermore, can we actually focus on the game? It feels like you guys are still swirling around in the WIFOM hurricane.


P-EDIT:
@Titus: You're so hungry for the lynch, chill out.
@Cherry: Just vote me if you want to vote me.
@Saki: You'll live.

[Saki]

Saki, you should be fine with dying. Yes, it sucks to lose an rber at night, but that also supposes there is no doctor to save you. The doctor would most likely camp on your house. Even if there is no doctor, Varsoon getting lynched and Saki dying is a perfect 1 for 1 trade at the start of the game.

For your own future reference, it's best to play to want to survive as a PR but don't sabotage the group's efforts because you fear dying.

You don't mind a TRB dying.

Something's fishy.

@Varsoon, what?

[Titus]

Myself alone am not responsible for the vote, this hydra has 2 heads and im only voting on what we both agree, even if DP did vote for TV without me specifically agreeing to it, i still rather consult him first because i'm nice like that.

-Sakura Hana

This is why I hate hydras. If you were a normal player, I would call this stalling.

The 180 is pretty alarming though. You didn't really comment on any of my arguments (you missed them) and you turn and do a 180 on Varsoon? Either your heads cannot agree or something is suspicious with this hydra.

This is why I hate hydras.

@Varsoon, I'm active but I'm lost in a WiFoM hurricane? It's a problem to be hungry for a lynch of scum with the day winding down?


@Saki, I know that mafia is a lot like a game of chess. I'd prefer if you didn't die but I know each individual person is expendable as long as there's enough of us to lynch the scums.

[CherryDrPepper]

It's my first time playing an hydra and i've seen on other games people complaining about hydras having dissonance, i just wanted to avoid dissonance with my other head that's all.

-Sakura Hana

[Titus]

It's my first time playing an hydra and i've seen on other games people complaining about hydras having dissonance, i just wanted to avoid dissonance with my other head that's all.

-Sakura Hana

Well vote or no vote, that plan failed pretty badly there.

[TunnelVision]

The only reason that I don't want to lynch Varsoon today is because him living into N1 means a greater chance for me to live to see D2.

This is flawed logic. When we lynch Varsoon and he flips scum, your chances of survival go up dramatically. Mafia won't want to target you because if we have a doctor, you're a likely protection target. It also gives you some information about who you should block to reduce the chances of a successful mafia NK.

All that said, we have several days left for this day phase, so we should not lynch Varsoon right this minute or in advance of the deadline. I will unvote to extend the dayphase if necessary. There are several lurkers (and my own second hydra head) that we need to hear from.

There are lots of other avenues for development.

-1-

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Unless both town and mafia are stupid, you should live.

Also, for cherry:
"First, anyone who thinks that Varsoon isn't bullshitting loudly when he says he didn't read the setup is dumber than Vars is acting."
Flench's third point in 907.
"The reality is, I think he's smart. I think he's too smart to counter claim without looking at the game setup first"
"Not Reading the Setup - I don't buy anyone not reading the setup. It's one thing to miscomprehend but I don't think anyone deliberately ignores the setup."
". Meanwhile, Varsoon is smart enough to know that fake claiming is dangerous in this setup. I don't really believe him when he says that he doesn't understand the setup, but that's another one of his attempts at clever ploys."
"I expected that a competent and intelligent player such as yourself would've read the intro posts from the mod, and looked at the game setup options."


Those are the most damning ones.
There's been a lot of not-related-to-the-game WIFOM just because I didn't read the setup, so that's why I told Xiao that he should.
C'mon, step it up.


@Titus: You've been focusing on things that aren't relevant for awhile.
When does the day end? You're actively telling people "jump on this wagon!"
No need to be a jerk to Cherry with your response.

@TV: Maybe I

am

wrong about you.

unvote

[Varsoon]

oh, gotta make that legal.

unvote

[CherryDrPepper]

Adding to TV, that if he's really scum roleblocker, he can just roleblock you to prevent you from stopping their killer from hitting you IF they decide to kill you.

Your chances to live are the same regardless whether he lives or not, but if he's a scum roleblocker your chances of being able to block the correct hitman are greater.

-Sakura Hana

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, let's break this down.
My wagon's either scummy, or scum is in the lurkers. There's no way I hit L-3 without being lynched, given the evidence that was on me.
If scum is in the lurkers, this is a huge problem. I called for a consolidation of votes earlier, but we've got six players not voting on either of the larger wagons, which signifies dissonance between town OR scum being among these outlying voters.
Also, I'm skeptical of Xiao's replacement. Xiao, can you give any explanation of why you think that Vote Me (the person you replaced) said that he'd never vote Varsoon? Furthermore, can you contribute transparently towards the game in a way that lets us know your alignment?
Glass is getting a replacement, too, so that slot is an wildcard as well.


Again, I apologize for the smoke and mirrors. If you want me to tell you something truthful, then I will. Just ask directly. Don't WIFOM it or beat around the bush.
Furthermore, I'll be playing as Pasche suggested--as level one as I can.

[Saki]

Not many ways I'd live if Varsoon is lynched D1.

Almost every single night-action would be on me N1.

Almost confident that my roleblock won't go off, either.

@Varsoon
why 180 now and not earlier?
stop throwing around scumreads, too

[Varsoon]

@Saki: 180? Hardly. I'm just starting to see the town motivation in TV's case against me, rather than otherwise, where I saw it as a lurker coming out of hiding to actively push a growing wagon. Post 1101 reeks of town, too.
Sorry about throwing scum-reads around, just thinking aloud.

Also, you won't die on N1. You'll only get lynched if town is stupid, and scum wants you to exist until people stop thinking to protect you at night/until lylo. You're useful to both teams right now, and so if either kills you, they've made a mistake that'll cost them the game.

[StubbsKVM]

I'm back. I've caught up with all my other games but this one. I tried, but I found myself skipping the wall posts, so it's not a good way to start a catchup. I can agree that my content was pretty poor, I've had to catch up a large amount of pages after every post, which is not really a good way to be in the game. There's still a lot of time though, so no reason to rush this.

[Varsoon]

If someone brings something damning to the table about TV, there's a good chance I'll be back on that wagon. For now, I'm too caught up in my own shenanigans for my vote to be anything but bait. I'm going to sit it out.

@Stubbs: I agree that rushing the day is the worst thing town can do in any situation. Please, catch up with the thread and provide your thoughts. You're difficult to read right now, so I'd really like to see more content out of you.

[Titus]

@Saki: Unless both town and mafia are stupid, you should live.

Also, for cherry:
"First, anyone who thinks that Varsoon isn't bullshitting loudly when he says he didn't read the setup is dumber than Vars is acting."
Flench's third point in 907.
"The reality is, I think he's smart. I think he's too smart to counter claim without looking at the game setup first"
"Not Reading the Setup - I don't buy anyone not reading the setup. It's one thing to miscomprehend but I don't think anyone deliberately ignores the setup."
". Meanwhile, Varsoon is smart enough to know that fake claiming is dangerous in this setup. I don't really believe him when he says that he doesn't understand the setup, but that's another one of his attempts at clever ploys."
"I expected that a competent and intelligent player such as yourself would've read the intro posts from the mod, and looked at the game setup options."


Those are the most damning ones.
There's been a lot of not-related-to-the-game WIFOM just because I didn't read the setup, so that's why I told Xiao that he should.
C'mon, step it up.


@Titus: You've been focusing on things that aren't relevant for awhile.
When does the day end? You're actively telling people "jump on this wagon!"
No need to be a jerk to Cherry with your response.

@TV: Maybe I

am

wrong about you.

unvote

The day ends August 2nd. I'm encouraging town to make what I believe to be the smart play. This day has been dragging on for quite some time. I think we should get significant contributions from the replacements but I am always going to push a wagon on those I think are scummy. I really don't like your unvote on Tunnel. You never gave a good reason for voting him and now that people aren't jumping on and realizing there was no case, your vote leaves. Scummy timing.

[Varsoon]

Oh, so two weeks from now? Sure is winding down.
We have ~5 slots that have given town no information. It's foolhardy to go into D2 while there's still so many lurkers and a replacement pending.
I actually did have a case on him, I apologize that it wasn't a wall of text with quotes left and right. You can continue to misrep me with slanderous lines like "You never gave a good reason for voting him and now that people aren't jumping on and realizing there was no case, your vote leaves. Scummy timing."
But I hope that town will see how terrible you're being. ISO me for the case, or ask for it straightforwardly. Don't lie to town and say there was no case.

Vote: Titus

[oriole]

@Varsoon: Consolidating votes right now isn't a good idea; we still have 11+ days left. It rushes the day.

Xiao, can you give any explanation of why you think that Vote Me (the person you replaced) said that he'd never vote Varsoon?

How is he supposed to answer this? He's not Vote Me.

[Saki]

@Saki: 180? Hardly. I'm just starting to see the town motivation in TV's case against me, rather than otherwise, where I saw it as a lurker coming out of hiding to actively push a growing wagon. Post 1101 reeks of town, too.
Sorry about throwing scum-reads around, just thinking aloud.

Also, you won't die on N1. You'll only get lynched if town is stupid, and scum wants you to exist until people stop thinking to protect you at night/until lylo. You're useful to both teams right now, and so if either kills you, they've made a mistake that'll cost them the game.

180 as in playstyle

[Varsoon]

@Oriole: Yeah, and I wasn't calling for it now, but earlier. The fact that it didn't happen is significant and worth tracking.
On the VoteMe front, I'm digging for info from someone with the same slot. That slot hasn't produced information other than "Never voting Varsoon", and I want to know if Xiao has any idea why. This not only lets us see Xiao's approach to that aspect of the game, but also lets us track Xiao's rationale from this point to any one later.


@Saki: Oh. Yeah, that is a 180.
Pasche confirmed that my play was getting us nowhere and I realized it was. We haven't lynched out of any of the major wagons yet, and there's still a large amount of lurkers hiding underneath the torrent of WIFOM I created. I was originally shooting to confuse and expose scum, but the town got caught up in it as well, so it didn't work out. Instead, playing straightforwardly should get us the most results from here on out.