Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[Flench]

Varsoon who is your top mafia pick atm?

[Flench]

Sorry I should just randomly vote people without talking to them, you are right, best way to play for sure.

[Flench]

[Flench]

Vote: Saki

[Flench]

Leaving my vote with Saki because worst town posts so far.

Agree Titus's vote did not seem random.

inb4 anime circles.

[Flench]

Link did not post properly
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4976509
Flech's "worst town posts so far" when describing Saki bothers me. You think he's town, thn you vote?

I meant that his posts have so far not been productive for the town, not that he is town and making bad posts.



Glass has voted twice for people recently voted on, bandwagon style.

Leaving my vote with Saki until he defends himself or becomes productive in some way.

[Flench]

Why is Glass soundly town?

Other than your friendly side convo earlier about unrelated things.

[Flench]

A small wagon's still a wagon. Explain your vote.


@Flench: The reasoning behind his votes and how cynical his voting methods are (based on his own logic rather than other's//doesn't vote opportunistically) come off as town. Clearly, this doesn't make the slot absolutely town, but it's a nod in that direction.

@Dyslexicon: Your points are the reason why I should probably have my vote on Titus. Still, I'd much rather pressure out JMO for this shit. I don't see why no one else thinks it's important. Dude just left a vote and it would've coasted easily.

How is Glass not voting opportunistically when both of his votes were onto a person already under suspicion and voted upon? Varsoon seems to be giving a bit too much credit to Glass for some reason. I see Glass and Varsoon aligned at this point.

I would like to hear Glass's reaction to this.

Varsoon is also quite aggressive to JMO, I disagree with the accusation of bandwagon on that count.

Varsoon still not having cast a vote is the last item of suspicion.

Still waiting for Saki to return.

[Flench]

Lol. That Michael Jackson bit was a shot at humor. I guess I failed.
-1-

It was my favorite post so far.

I think Varsoon and Glass look a bit scummy based on their agreement on many things. I might vote for Glass at this point but I am waiting for Saki to return, he will not escape my vote by disappearing.

[Flench]

Well there were only two people who voted Titus. Oriole then you Glass. Since you voted second, you were the one jumping on the wagon, not Oriole. So why would he point at Oriole as picking Titus as an easy linch?

Then you did the same thing on the JMO vote.

[Flench]

Trying to clear up this convo between jmo and glass because it's really confusing and strange to read.

[Flench]

I would like to hear Tunnel's opinion on some or all of the following people. JMO, Glass, and Oriole.

[Flench]

Flench, who's scum? you've been prancing around and not voting.

I don't understand this.

I mentioned who I thought was scummy in post 118.

I voted for Saki a long time ago and he has since disappeared. I don't think it's a good policy to remove my vote on someone who goes silent.

I have other leads and will make them known when I get more information.

[Flench]

Leaving my vote with Saki because worst town posts so far.

Link did not post properly
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4976509
Flech's "worst town posts so far" when describing Saki bothers me. You think he's town, thn you vote?

I meant that his posts have so far not been productive for the town, not that he is town and making bad posts.

...

Leaving my vote with Saki until he defends himself or becomes productive in some way.

Do I really have to go back through the post history for you? Because it is pretty annoying.

[Flench]

JMO

Is your version of pressure just to intentionally misunderstand posts?

If so I will let you figure it out for yourself.

[Flench]

Looking back I think my posts were pretty clear.

[Flench]

If there is another person besides jmo and titus who is confused by my posting I will take the time to explain it.

I still think it is clear.

[Flench]

The more I see. The more convinced I am Saki is indeed a mislynch. In post 35, Saki says "town points to whoever guesses my avatar". That's a pretty good way to trap newbie scum, because they will indeed guess at it.

No one fell for it

, but it was an excellent way to spark discussion. Saki also got voted up very quickly after Paschendale voted Saki. Flench's vote before Paschendale was a clear OMGUS. CherryDr.Pepper's next post was a sheeping post for the exact same reason as Paschendale's. I'm not sure if that's Sakuna's play to be a sheep, but Dr. Pepper wouldn't sheep like that. The attention on Saki is easy because s/he is afk.

I tend to agree with this. You are wrong about bolded though, Varsoon took a guess, or kind of, #38

If there is another person besides jmo and titus who is confused by my posting I will take the time to explain it.

I still think it is clear.

*raises hand*

What don't you understand about his posts?


It's nice having someone you don't need to doubt the intentions of.
I don't particularly agree with your top scum reads though. I can't read an alignment from Saki's posts, but I don't think scum would be that obvious. Also I'm uneasy with how he's gotten so much suspicion for what I feel could just as well be trolling/reaction testing. He's capital letters "lynch the hydras" I just can't take seriously. I find it annoying he's gonna be gone for a while though.
Glass I think comes of a bit defensive, but from previous experience I've seen more of these head to head like Glass and jmo that just suddenly appear be town vs town, especially D1.

I do find Cherry and Varsoon suspicious, and to a somewhat lesser degree TunnelV, that's more of a gut thing.
Varsoon I feel is too occupied with appearing town and seen as credible for questioning.
Cherry I feel is sitting back just to throw in some suggestive points of suspicion about others, like #108 and #170.
Any thoughts so far, other than your vote on Saki?

VOTE: Cherry

I also noticed that Varsoon guess for the town points. For someone talking about slips Titus...

Since confirmed town said he understood my posts (a few posts up) and Dislexicon seemed to, I will not wasted my time explaining for the third time.

I agree with the the last paragraph, overall a good post.

[Flench]

OK I just spent forty minutes writing an extremely disjointed post that tries to explain whatever it is jmo wants to know.

It is very long and full of quotes that are probably messed up.

It probably won't help him understand at all but will I am sure will be more evidence for jmo to go after in this really annoying form of pressure that I see no end to.

I will post it at the request of Pasche.

[Flench]

Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.

Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?

This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.

1. At this point he is the only town in the game that I know of, if you jmo and cherry are scum and are intentionally leading the convo this way then I would like a town to give his thoughts. I thought my reasoning was sound in my previous posts, why should that stop him or you? Everything in this long post has already been said, if you go back and read you should be able to understand everything.

2. I don't see jmo ever saying that I answered his questions appropriately.

3. What?

[Flench]

Flench, who's scum? you've been prancing around and not voting.

I don't understand this.

I mentioned who I thought was scummy in post 118.

I voted for Saki a long time ago and he has since disappeared. I don't think it's a good policy to remove my vote on someone who goes silent.

I have other leads and will make them known when I get more information.

Oriole, this post as well should be explained. Post 118 doesn't give a clear indication of who he thinks scum is. I'd guess he meant 116 but he's being a stubborn git and not confirming anything. That's what we've meant all along, just for Flench to be clear as to who he FoSes and the vote when he thinks someone is scum.

Instead, we get posts like 49 and 199 which both seem to be clear scummy posts to me.

Yes the 118 reference was meant to be 116, this was pointed out by you and earlier and I thought it was pretty obvious. 116 had my scum suspects.

[Flench]

Saki's 210 lists 5 suspects. And no actual reasons for any of them. One question each for Titus, Varsoon, and Flench, but no reason why whatever he's asking them about shows their alignments. And nothing for me or Cherry.

Also... apologizing to me? Apologize to me if my actions scream town and you stupidly accuse me. Not if my actions are lazy because I don't have to prove my sincerity because I'm confirmed.

I can't find his question to me, point it out to me if I missed it. I am really tired atm so very possible.

[Flench]

Why didn't you just say that Flench? Making us jump through hoops to get opinions isn't helpful.

Who are your scum suspects now? Do you have any questions for us that would help you determine scum? Any players (besides the child) that you see as auto town?

I don't think you missed anything from Paschendale.

Titus if that is all you wanted explained then I was horribly misunderstanding you and jmo, I could have cleared that up easily, and my lengthy post barely even mentions it.

Too tired to link evidence atm but my current mafia suspects are (in no order):

Varsoon - For putting so much out there. Also don't know if his vote for Tunnel was an omgus because tunnel kinda made fun of the way he was being so friendly with everyone, and said it was suspicious. Also he didn't vote for a long time, I wonder if our early votes were part of his mafia?

Saki- Scum-hunting not great, goes afk but then comes back from afk when he realizes the pressure is not leaving him while he is gone, seems sketchy. Still leaving vote there for now.

JMO- His posts are bad and he should feel bad.

[quote="In post 106

Kinda thought it was obvious the reason I voted for you in the last post, I see Titus as newb town. Your vote on him is because he is an easy lynch target at this point in the game.

Sigh, it's like trying to pull teeth here.

Why do you think that my reason for voting him is because he is an easy lynch target, as opposed to my stated reason?[/quote]

Glass gets it.

Also Titus:

[quote="In post 219
I generally take everything a player does seriously. Generally, players who take things seriously are actually most likely to be the town players rather than scum.

Scum will dismiss gambits and other early forms of scum hunting as jokes quite frequently

IMO.[/quote]

Why would a mafia dismiss gambits and scum hunting as a joke? Wouldn't he want to cast suspicion on any non-mafia person that he could?

[Flench]

Seems my quotes were messed up in my last post. hopefully it makes sense.

[Flench]

My reasons for voting Flench

1) The Slip in 39

2) Post 199 - Seems pretty clearly written from a scum perspective, insulting his own opinions, saying he probably won't help etc.

3) His general behavior that Paschendale is the only town to clarify things for

4) His backtracking on clarifying who his scum suspects were when Cherry Dr. Pepper asked him to clarify.

5) A generally unhelpful demeanor towards the group and scumhunting in general (ex: prefers to talk theory rather than ask questions).

1. Most slips aren't really slips. They're just examples of someone phrasing something in a way that you wouldn't.
2. It sounds more frustrated than scum to me.
3. Quite true. I'm only one vote, and no one has to listen to me. Flench, post your thoughts. Don't look to me to lead you.
4. Do you mean in post 76? That's not backtracking. If you mean something else, please say which posts you're referring to.
5. Agreed, Flench's tone has been uncooperative and he should change that. But most of what he's said hasn't been wrong.

These aren't bad reasons, but I think they're wrong.

1. It wasn't a slip, if you have never heard that phrasing before then that's not my problem.
2. I am not as patient as some other players to go through and contradict these things with the evidence necessary, I have confidence the other players don't have the same views as you.
3. He seems like a competent player and is a confirmed town, why wouldn't I want his opinion on things?
4. Cherry didn't ask me anything he just "raised his hand"
5. Here's a question Titus. Why did you say that nobody tried a guess for Saki's free town points? Varsoon did. slippppppp

Also would like Glass's thoughts on Titus and Tunnel.

[Flench]

Care to give your opinions on our hydras Flench? Is there anyone besides Paschendale who you think is town?

This is my first game with hydras, it seems to add more confusion to the game, I don't know what to make of them yet tbh.

Strongest town reads are Oriole and Dyslexicon, they both have been making productive posts and them being town agrees with my mafia suspicions.

I do think a mafia member has been targeted/pressured in this game, I am seeing some strange voting and reasoning for it at this point. We may have hit a nerve early.

[Flench]

I'm gone for a day and there are 12 new pages, wtf is going on? Starting the long read.

[Flench]

Unvote

Working on an epic read list and entire game analysis, but I have stuff to do until much later tonight, hope I can post it tonight.

[Flench]

I started taking notes and decided to just post the notes instead of redoing everything on the computer, sorry if you don't like pictures.

These are some important voting points in the game where I noted how severe the vote was, or how much pressure was being applied, one line of a star is almost no pressure, a full star is a lot of pressure. My gut reads are also here on the right.

1.

This is a list of "Pairs of Fighters" (what a bad title). These are pairs of people who have been showing lots of aggression towards each other or at least in one direction. Mafia doesn't like to do this to other mafia members, so at least one in each pair is town. Some pressure I thought was weak or fake, included here are the pressures I thought were legit and dangerous for the person being pressured.

2.

These are four situations which I find the most likely. I am sure one of them is correct.
'
3.

[Flench]

Cherry please explain exactly what I disregarded or left out and I will try to explain it.

I did consider doing the situation in which Titus was mafia so why not. The mafia guesses in all the situations also use the Pairs of Fighters page to make sure a pair cannot be on my guesses, because one in a pair must be town.

[Flench]

Wow! Those last posts by Varsoon are epic buddying. "Thanks for being complaint" and the whole gist that some buddy has never put together a chart detailing relationships is absurd.

I think the effort by Flench is something not typical of the mafia. French would you like a link to a bbcode generator? That would make your pictures easier to understand.

VOTE: unvote

@Flench, why would CherryDrPepper hardbus Saki at the start which is what the pattern implies at first.

Saki's reactions seem town lately. Perhaps he has had an epic fail in communication and logic.

I am going to watch these two closely. I am still convinced lynching between these two is the best option.

@jmo, you never did vote Saki but there was a clear sudden shift from a Saki FoS to a Varsoon FoS.

Well I have Varsoon in the mafia circle in 4 out of the 5 situations so if you think we are buddies I don't even know.

Him being my prime mafia guess in situation 2 is also my second most likely situation sooo.

Cherry voted on Saki after Pasche and I had, a mafia would not add to the wagon on another mafia in such a way. That's the kind of thing I was looking for when I made the pairs of fighters page.

Of course I will probably not be able to do another one of these for a long time or maybe never because now the mafia will try to meta my methods.

[Flench]

Scenario 3 doesn't give with your gut reads. I will look in more detail when I get back home later.

So I started with the gut read on Varsoon, then going from there, I used the pairs of fighters page to make sure I could not have a pair in my mafia guesses, so I went with my next gut that could fit into my rules, jmo, that eliminated Stubbs, then I used the remaining players to find the one that would fit best and decided Titus because of the Varsoon connection others have mentioned.

I did actually find a hole in my situations though, I don't know if the prime mafia guesses in each situation are paired with any of my mafia guesses, it should be easy to spot. I will try to update the situations later. I am out for awhile.

[Flench]

I did actually find a hole in my situations though, I don't know if the prime mafia guesses in each situation are paired with any of my mafia guesses, it should be easy to spot. I will try to update the situations later. I am out for awhile.

Ignore this, I did account for the pairs of the prime mafia pick in each situation, that's what the confirmed town is and the remaining players are for.

[Flench]

I don't think I FOS'd saki either..

If that was directed at me.

You are not paired with Saki, so I would agree you did not give an serious pressure to Saki.

[Flench]

I think we should be lynching outside of Varsoon and Saki today. Scum will have to kill them so they don't block a kill and get a guilty that way. If they try and play WIFOM with letting one of them hang around a couple nights so we'll lynch them, all the more chances to block a kill.

So let's stop talking about them.

And seriously, Vars, Saki, and Titus, will the three of you shut the fuck up for a while? The three of you are just down to wrestling in the mud by now.

Flench, I like your lists, but the criticism is correct. You did neglect cross bussing. Two people trying really hard to kill each other does not mean that they cannot be of the same alignment. But since you made that assumption across the board, I see no reason to suggest a deliberate act.

Tell me more about this Stubbs vs Jmo fight, though.

There has been so much blithering about Saki vs Varsoon that I don't think talking about it any more is going to help us. Especially not them talking about it. It all basically comes down to the rest of us deciding if we believe their claims or not.

If anyone has anything else to add, I want to hear about the other players, and I want our lurkers to share brief thoughts about what's going on.

Otherwise, if we really want this day to be a Saki vs Varsoon fight, let's just vote and stop yelling at each other.

Two people trying to kill each other can be of the same alignment but they both cannot be mafia. So if one in a pair is mafia, the other must be town. That's the whole point of my analysis. I understand they can both be town, that is taken into consideration in my post. Each situation starts with the premise a certain person is mafia and goes from there.

Here's the Stubbs attack on jmo, I could see a him putting a mafia teammate on his "leaning mafia" list to avoid suspicion, but not on his top mafia pick.

Okay, I read through some ISO's and this is what I came up with.

Town

Glass
Oriole
Paschendale

Leaning Town

Saki
Titus
Dyslexicon

Null

Varsoon
Vote Me

Leaning Scum

CherryDrPepper
Flench
Tunnel Vision

Scum

JMO

That'll have to do for now. If you have any questions, shoot.

[Flench]

Flench, why cant scum try to distance/bus at this point? On that note of the four, which one are you most certain of?

I don't know what you mean. Mafia could sit back do nothing, which is why for my reads on Stubbs and VoteMe I wrote afk > kill. Quiet people should not be allowed to remain so.

The situations are numbered in order of likelihood(by my reads so far), I should have mentioned that. Saki and Varsoon both being RB is a very low chance so there is a high chance there is a mafia member in that pair, that's not even a read, just statistics.

So to clarify my top mafia picks in order (each has his own situation in my post)
1. Saki - mafia read and in the most likely mafia pair
2. Varsoon - no read but in the most likely mafia pair
3. Cherry - mafia read
4. JMO - bad town read or just annoying and unhelpful
5. Titus - town read but a weak one

I don't have enough info on VoteMe so I can't do anything with that, so he is near the top of the kill list, even though I can't put him at the top of the mafia list because I have no evidence.

Sorry if I am posting too much at this point because I was also annoyed as hell I had to read those 12 pages of Saki, Varsoon, RB shitstorm, but I am just answering questions about my post at this point.

[Flench]

@Flench: Don't ever be sorry for posting too much. Posting is the only way the game moves.

Tell that to pages 12 > 24

12 people had to read all that shit that was posted in 24 hours, just make sure your posts have a point is what I'm saying.

Two roles did claim but it could have been compressed to 3-4 pages probably.

[Flench]

Uh... sure they can. I've done that as scum. Fighting with a teammate early on but never building enough steam to get a lynch is a good way to do early distancing. However, I don't think the Vars/Saki situation is an example of it, because it is likely to lead to a lynch. But don't rule it out.

Flench, I don't really like the pairing angle. Don't make associations based on unflipped slots. They're usually wrong. Explain your Cherry scum read specifically.

I can't think of a better way to find mafia then looking at who they have seriously pressured and go from there. Any mafia can half-heartedly go after another to distance themselves, I only chose fights I thought were legit, obviously I could be wrong.

Cherry jumped on the easiest wagon(after you and I), Saki, and rode it until Saki was nearly lynched. This suggests he and Saki are not both mafia, because mafia do not like to jump on other mafias wagons late in the wagon(they might vote first or second for another mafia but not third). I also think Cherry has typically pitched in to add to whoever was under pressure at that time, not really starting the pressure but just enhancing it. All this reads mafia to me.

[Flench]

Vote: Vote Me

48 hours from now, I want him to either offer some solid reads, or be dead. Tunnel and Glass are in the same boat. I want more from Jmo and Stubbs, too.

I feel okay about Dyslexicon.

Vote: VoteMe

Lurkers/afk people give no information, they must perish.

Varsoon I have to say that a couple of Tunnels points are decent so you should feel compelled to refute them.

[Flench]

@TV: I didn't look at any of the setup because it's pointless to do so in most cases.

If that makes me stupid, well, eh, it was a part of my VI gambit to come into the game knowing nothing. I couldn't -fake- knowing nothing, so I didn't do any research.

First you say you didn't look at the setup because you don't think it's important. Then you say you intentionally didn't look at the setup so you could play VI easier.

It's like everything mafia you do you then just say it's because you were playing VI, yet you told us you were playing VI right after someone started pressuring you, so why even play VI if you are going to tell us that the instant we think you are acting like mafia?

[Flench]

So when he gets replaced, do we interrogate the new guy after he reads the 35 pages...this could take a while.

[Flench]

1) Varsoon is town. He made what I believe to be an anti-town play by counterclaiming roleblocker without checking the game setup.
2) Varsoon is mafia. His roleclaim is a calculated anti-town play that has a number of potential plays/applications/risks/rewards. (This is the scenario that I believe to be true.)

My belief is that he's too smart for 1. The guy puts a lot of time into the game. Lots of posts, lots of thought, lots of theories... Understanding the game setup doesn't take much. He comfortable using numbers in his arguments, and the math for game setup options is quite simple and laid out neatly on that wiki page. Add on that people who seem to know him better than I also believe he's lying about game setup knowledge (Pasche in 842, I think somebody else said it too.) It just doesn't add up. It fails the logic test. I don't see how Town Varsoon could possible think that it was wise (and helpful to town) to counter claim without digging into the game setup (let alone trying other options if he really believed Saki was scum claiming a PR.) Quotes demonstrating that Varsoon's reason for CC'ing was because he didn't check game setup (because apparently I need to provide quotes to support everything I say):

-1-

1. Low chance

2. So if Varsoon is mafia and knew the setup, he would have known there was the 1% chance they were both town and the high chance they would both get lynched.

3. So a third senario would be varsoon being mafia and not knowing the setup and thinking his counter claim would make him the sole town RB. I think you are giving the guy too much credit, all of his meta defenses have been poorly strung together as everyone has pointed out. I think he just messed up and thought if he counter claimed he could kill Saki and would be the only RB. All of his posts have basically been saying "you better consider my master plan" but I don't think there is one, he just took a risky play counter claiming what now looks like town Saki, and not reading the setup backfired. He has been scrambling since he CCd. Now he is just using the chance they are both town as a get out of jail free card.

Vote: Varsoon

[Flench]

As you said Pasche, I agree with the lurker killing but I assume VoteMe is currently being replaced so it would be frowned upon to vote him?

Glass, Stubbs, and Dyslexicon are up next.

But since Pasche is leaving his vote on his mafia suspect so will I, Tunnel isn't a lurker imo.

[Flench]

He should be, tho he has posted a bit more, most are low content.

[Flench]

2. Flench did the exact same thing to me but he gets to be off the hook for it 'cause analysis?

Ok Saki, the 10th time is the charm. Yes I left my vote on you. I did it because you went afk from the game after I voted on you, the wagon stayed at L-3 until you returned. So one day you return, pretty much asked Titus to vote for you, then vote yourself, then stay at L-1 for all of 30 minutes before going back to L-3. I was gone that day as you noted in an earlier post, I was not posting in other games, just gone.

I don't know why you keep bringing this up as though I intended for you to be lynched when in fact you created the danger yourself.

But don't worry, you are so clearly noobtown that you are safe and can continue posting your noobtown posts.

[Flench]

3. So a third senario would be varsoon being mafia and not knowing the setup and thinking his counter claim would make him the sole town RB. I think you are giving the guy too much credit, all of his meta defenses have been poorly strung together as everyone has pointed out. I think he just messed up and thought if he counter claimed he could kill Saki and would be the only RB. All of his posts have basically been saying "you better consider my master plan" but I don't think there is one, he just took a risky play counter claiming what now looks like town Saki, and not reading the setup backfired. He has been scrambling since he CCd. Now he is just using the chance they are both town as a get out of jail free card.

Vote: Varsoon

So that is what I think is going on.

I don't understand why Pasche is so strongly against lynching Varsoon. It's not just the statistics, that's like, less than half of the argument.

I think the mafia is made up of Varsoon, Cherry, Stubbs, and Glass in that order of certainty. For me this is what fits.

I still can't understand the case against lynching Varsoon, nothing anyone has said has made sense to me yet on that front. You are welcome to keep trying though.

[Flench]

1. If Varsoon is VT, he has pretty much screwed the town at this point, all we have is misinformation and he will be lynched because of his bad play.

2. He is yet again full of shit, trying to save the face of his mafia buddies defending him by casting doubt on his role. Please die so we can get on to other things and actually try to sort out this game.

This is why I am worried about waiting to lynch, I think with enough time, Varsoon can convince some of you he is town.

Just ask yourself, how stupid would you feel if you left him alive as town until the end and he was mafia? Pretty damn stupid, it was so obvious.

How stupid would you feel if he turns out to actually be VT? Not stupid at all, he did this shit himself, he screwed the town.

[Flench]

Flench, you realize how scummy that sounds, right?
You want to string me up now because if I have time, I might prove my innocence?
Honestly, if you feel so worried about me, lynch me on D2 or D3. As of now, I've provided enough Wifom to make scum waste a NK or PR on me, which is good enough. I can say things like this due to the WIFOM already created. I can bluff right at scum because of what I've done and they have no way of knowing if I'm a PR or not, and so I'm high-risk for scum to keep alive.

Instead, Flench, you should be tracking my logic through the entire game with the knowledge that I am VT. A lot of my actions make a lot more sense once you know that.

I know how it sounds but that's how I feel when I think of people actually believing you, it makes me hopeless.

Varsoon, your logic cannot be tracked, I could make a case your posting throughout the game to be literally any role I can think of. You have no master plan, how does nobody else see this? He is just scrambling to find a way out.

I'm done posting for a while, before I get into any more trouble on my desire for Varsoon's death.

#rollout

edit: btw Varsoon, I'm a bit mad.

[Flench]

Hey new guy, I think I watched that show your avatar is one time around 10 years ago, they were in a cabin in the woods and he was solving murders and being short, I liked it. Anyways, I seriously doubt you have read everything so stop calling me out until you have.

I am currently lurking and reading everything, I'll listen to the jmo case, as he has been a strong mafia contender for the whole game, but Varsoon better die soon before he infects you guys with his stupidity and we let him live.

If we ever get to day 2 I'll make some more lists and scenarios I have been thinking about.

[Flench]

@Flench: You'd better have more to say when you catch up.

I have been caught up, I meant don't worry I read eveything. I don't have anything to say, nothing new has happened, and my thoughts are the same.

I am all for making jmo do something, he has been a mafia suspect of mine the whole game, but my vote aint changing sugapoo.

[Flench]

inb4 skype date with saki and varsoon where their love blossoms into an anime orgasm.

[Flench]

@Flench, jmo has been death tunnelling Varsoon for most of the game. That seems wholly inconstitent with them being mafia together. Thoughts?

@Varsoon/Saki, There have been multiple complaints about spam and you start talking about tv shows. Wt*!

Maybe jmo is just bad town?

Maybe Varsoon is just bad town?

Maybe they are both mafia and jmo saw Varsoon as a sinking ship and wanted to get town cred and distance himself from another mafia member, Varsoon wanted to save himself and is crazy and throws jmo under the bus in defense(bad mafia play but he has been fond of those).

Maybe Maybe Maybe, Varsoon should still die.

[Flench]

Cowboy Bebop is teh best huehuehue amirite?

[Flench]

I was kidding please don't. You and Saki have already made enough worthless posts to last us 8 Namekian years.

Zing.

[Flench]

@Flench, jmo has been death tunnelling Varsoon for most of the game. That seems wholly inconstitent with them being mafia together. Thoughts?

@Varsoon/Saki, There have been multiple complaints about spam and you start talking about tv shows. Wt*!

Maybe jmo is just bad town?

Maybe Varsoon is just bad town?

Maybe they are both mafia and jmo saw Varsoon as a sinking ship and wanted to get town cred and distance himself from another mafia member, Varsoon wanted to save himself and is crazy and throws jmo under the bus in defense(bad mafia play but he has been fond of those).

Maybe Maybe Maybe, Varsoon should still die.

He is obviously the way to go, all his lies are making reads impossible for the town, he is helping mafia by creating a million posts debating the statistics of 2 RBs then saying oh yea I'm VT. He's a cancer to the town even if he isn't mafia. See Tunnel's post for more detail.

That's a hell of a lot of maybes from a guy that's confident lynching Varsoon is the way to go.

[Flench]

@Flench, jmo has been death tunnelling Varsoon for most of the game. That seems wholly inconstitent with them being mafia together. Thoughts?

@Varsoon/Saki, There have been multiple complaints about spam and you start talking about tv shows. Wt*!

Maybe jmo is just bad town?

Maybe Varsoon is just bad town?

Maybe they are both mafia and jmo saw Varsoon as a sinking ship and wanted to get town cred and distance himself from another mafia member, Varsoon wanted to save himself and is crazy and throws jmo under the bus in defense(bad mafia play but he has been fond of those).

Maybe Maybe Maybe, Varsoon should still die.

That's a hell of a lot of maybes from a guy that's confident lynching Varsoon is the way to go.

this was meant to be outside the quote.

He is obviously the way to go, all his lies are making reads impossible for the town, he is helping mafia by creating a million posts debating the statistics of 2 RBs then saying oh yea I'm VT. He's a cancer to the town even if he isn't mafia. See Tunnel's post for more detail.

[Flench]

Out for the night. Anime talk should be met with lynches, peace.

[Flench]

How could I possibly be certain of anything Titus? later.

[Flench]

jmo just post a full read list.

[Flench]

Busy with some stuf atm, I'll be back to posting in 12ish hours.

[Flench]

12ish hours later.

Varsoon - You were grabbing my ass about my large content posts but then when you realized I was intent on lynching you, you decided I was not contributing and mafia. Real hard to see the motivation there. All of the fluff posts do push away lurkers, it's really daunting to see 8 new pages when you were gone for a day. All that being said, pm me if you want me in your next game, you are fun to play with and this is a great game so far. Just a bit less fluff please.

New Xioix guy- Don't try to drop any sc2 knowledge yo, I'll embarrass you all day. Come at me on bnet hater.

ummm yea I guess we are waiting for something to happen, I suspect my voting is done for the day, I'll be active for a while though.

Everyone asking why people think Varsoon is mafia, please go back and read the thread. TV and I in particular given plenty of reasons if they weren't obvious enough(misinformation everywhere for a start).

inb4 "you say you have given reasons but I don't see any, so what are they?" "Flench is ignoring my question!" "STILL refuses to answer my question, conf scum!" stfu

[Flench]

No Cherry, no he didn't.

[Flench]

Ok I think I am onto something, gimme some time and I may post a wall on it, I think everyone will be interested in it.

This new info does not affect my vote.

So many posts....stahp

[Flench]

Saki spamming for some stupid record, truly a scumbag.

[Flench]

Ok, here is the case for Titus. I believe Titus and Varsoon are both mafia.

Basically I believe Titus was giving fake pressure towards Varsoon that turned into a real wagon, then he tried to jump off it while making it not too obvious, recently he thought he saw a chance to save Varsoon, then he makes a couple post that make it obvious.


So I posted my large pages detailing who I thought were legitimately pressure people. In this post I left out Titus and Varsoon because I was not convinced he was giving real pressure to Varsoon, I also mentioned him buddying with Varsoon as did a couple other people. I had Titus and Varsoon in a couple possible mafia circles.

At this point Titus decides that he really needs to distance himself from Varsoon, so he starts making a strong case against Varsoon. This goes on for a long time, he does a convincing job.

@jmo, here's the flip I'm talking about in your ISO. In 208, you say Saki isn't contributing to scum hunting at all. You pressure him for a bit. 263 is a prod dodge. 424 is jmo pushing a Varsoon lynch. There's two days between 208 and 263 but the flip in logic without posts indicating hesitation worried me.

@Paschendale, I don't think the course of action restraining me is a good idea at all. I'll make myself as muddy as possible to catch a scum or to verify if I am right about scum. Asking me to restrain myself in that matter is greatly inhibiting my scum hunting abilities and very likely to lead to my failure to comply. I will say one more thing I have observed today about Varsoon and it's the last nail in the coffin convincing me that I had it backwards and Varsoon is really the scum.

I find Varsoon's response disingenuous. He says he'll go along with your request but later tells Flench not to worry about posting too much. That tells me a) thinks your request is dumb like I do or b) he's buddying to Flench. If it's a) well he should have the balls to say it and get bitched at by a confirmed town. If it's b) buddying is scummy.

Varsoon is right that posts are good and should be encouraged, unless they have no content. That's what he should have said to Paschendale at the start.

I do think we should lynch between Saki/Varsoon and my vote will reflect that.

Beyond this, I will post only if someone asks me a direct question (and corresponding clarification) regarding Saki/Varsoon or if I am commenting on the lurkers for 24 hours. I do not agree with lynching outside of Saki/Varsoon but I can see where we would want to get the lurkers involved in the game.

Vote: Varsoon

Later when Varsoon's wagon becomes serious, there is a note to reluctance in Titus's posts, and he even unvotes Varsoon just before lynch, a bold play to save, but it worked. Also in this instance he makes people aware he is willing to hammer Varsoon for the first time.

VOTE: Unvote

I don't want a hammer yet. If the IC wants to hammer I will.

Below Titus starts to try to draw the attention from Varsoon, thinking he can convince people to wait and kill Varsoon later.

I really don't like Cherry's vouching for JMO. I'm beginning to think that Varsoon is a big idiot and that JMO might be a better lynch here. Ugh!

Below he starts to plant the thought that Varsoon is being punished for playing bad town, and that he is not mafia.

If y'all don't shut up about anime, I will smash you with my Gundam Wing. I am off and I will be pissed if this thread devolves.

One last question though

@Flench, is your vote then on Varsoon more punishment for bad behavior or certainty of scum status?

Here he makes the case Varsoon and JMO cannot both be mafia, even more reason not to vote Varsoon.

@Rank head, JMO and Varsoon hardly seem to be scum partners on the same team but each seems scummy in their own right.

@Paschendale, I think that's Rank head's reads.

Below he makes sure to remind everyone he pressured Varsoon earlier, then goes for the JMO vote, easy pickins.

I didn't intend to intercept the question, i thought you were thinking everyone voting Varsoon was going for a policy lynch

-Sakura Hana

That seems like a load of bullshit given the fact I pushed the hardest for a Varsoon lynch before he claimed Vanilla townie.

VOTE: JMO

There are far too many inconsistencies here for my liking. I'll put JMO at L-2.

Below he makes a posts that says he is still against Varsoon, even though the point is really random and not significant.

I don't like Varsoon answering for Oriole.

Below he goes against voting Varsoon, he then asks for any evidence of Varsoon being mafia, the most ridiculous question ever.

And I just lost a town game because someone lied, and they said they lied and town believed him and he steam rolled over everyone until LyLo and won and im so fricken mad that I decided i should probably Lynch all liars from now on /rant

Yeah i'm quite happy to be voting for Varsoon at this point.

This makes it sound like you are doing a policy lynch on Varsoon rather than because you feel he's scummy. What else beyond the fake roleblock claim do you find scummy, if anything?

Below are two really damning post. So Stubbs says he will hammer. Varsoon then lets everyone know he will also hammer Varsoon, that's the second time he's said this.

Then, not 4 posts later, he gets on to Stubbs for suggesting hammering when he himself just did it right after Stubbs wtf, nobody even noticed this?

So this proves he never had any intention of hammering Varsoon, his mafia teammate.

Any last words Varsoon? I will hammer

I will hammer as well if needed.

Stubbs, we should NOT hammer until the replacement comments. Period.

Below, he tries again to prove his willingness to kill Varsoon. He then suggests Varsoon and Xiao are on a mafia team, when Xiao hasn't even been considered for mafia, wth.

Well, we lynch one and shoot the other if we have a vig. I'm sure there would be enough people who might possibly draw the roleblockers anyway.

I see two likely teams at this point. Varsoon/Xiao and Cherry/JMO. There is the option that Xiao is just wrong on his town read of Varsoon however. The read should tell us a lot.

However, if there is an SK, I would be relatively confident in saying it's not Cherry or Xiao right now.

Now he starts to go after Cherry, anything to get the mafia convo away from Varsoon.

But Cherry is basically advertising that he/she is doing the exact opposite of what an SK SHOULD do. What's the point in advertising it now when you're not in danger of being lynched today? Seems like real town would use that as evidence of town if people started piling votes on them. Cherry is likely scum - sk or mafia is what we find with the flip.

Can you try to rephrase this? I'm almost certain that Cherry is Mafia with JMO. Are you stating that Cherry is trying to act not like a serial killer by defending JMO? I'm not seeing the motivation.

Below he goes all out and tries to persuade the town against Lynching Varsoon, again says he will hammer Varsoon, lol.

I'm starting to have serious doubts whether lynching Varsoon is a good idea. There's two players with at best suspicious motives pushing the Varsoon train, which starts me thinking that maybe Varsoon is just a big pain in the ass town.

Will not hammer unless Varsoon is the only choice or the deadline will pass.

Below he again goes all out to go after Cherry, switching completely from jmo.

If all the active players (myself, Saki, oriole, Varsoon, and Xiao) right now got together and voted Cherry, he'd be at L-2. That would get Cherry to play straight possibly.

Saki, I've listed everyone in theory because no one is eliminated (usually) until they flip. My major foses are Cherry/JMO/??? with a possible Varsoon SK.

@Titus: Everything is motivation right? What is the scum motivation behind me drawing attention away for Varsoon towards myself?

When? I cannot answer that until I know what you perceive as drawing attention to yourself. However, I don't perceive your intentions as doing that. Once you felt comfortable on Varsoon, you've done everything you can to put attention on him.

VOTE: CherryDrPepper

I can still go back and put my vote on JMO if need be.

@Saki, that's not a scum claim. If a town is lying, scum can say let's lynch all liars and hide behind it. In an off-site game, I, as confirmed town, lied and said there was another Town PR I knew didn't exist. The idea was to get scum to claim it and town (if they read the crumbs) would lynch the claimer. Very rarely town do indeed lie.

By lazy I meant analytically lazy, and you are not 100% confirmed town, probably closer to 70%.

So yea, I think Titus is mafia with Varsoon. Surprise motherfucker.

[Flench]

Sorry if I'm hurting the spam machine Saki, your posts per minute are truly inspirational.

[Flench]

So Flench, you think scum team is Titus and Varsoon. Do you not think Jmo is scum?

As Titus and I have already said, jmo and Varsoon are both not mafia. I believe Varsoon is mafia. JMO is playing pretty bad but is he mafia, I don't know. Varsoon is a much stronger mafia read for me.


Titus, why did you hurry to say you would hammer Varsoon after Stubbs had already said he would?

[Flench]

jmo - because the case relies on both of them being mafia, and I think Varsoon is more dangerous so I voted him.

Titus - Even if you thought he wanted to claim you still made a vote to get him to claim.....which was bad for town.....

"If somebody takes on step closer I will jump off this bridge!" "*Titus takes a step" "*Saki jumps" "Well he obviously wanted to jump...." That's not the point Titus. Why did you take the step?

Obviously he wanted to claim and obviously you made a move you thought would make him claim.


Btw your answer to why you offered to hammer Varsoon directly after Stubbs was bad and you should feel bad. Why did you say you would hammer Varsoon 3 times in this game?

[Flench]

Then why would you say you would hammer directly after Stubbs did?


Then why did you tell Stubbs not to hammer directly after that?

[Flench]

Titus, in 1580 (quoted a few posts up) who is "we"?

Stubbs and I.

Good answer. That's the answer I was looking for, anyways.

Gj you cleared him...jk who else would it have been? What kind of question was that?

[Flench]

You don't.

[Flench]

You know, unless the all mighty ever knowing Tunnel Vision tells me idk how to play mafia again.

[Flench]

Cherry, this is the 3rd or 4th time you have brought up a slip, they have all been dumb.

You look bad, SK could fit.

[Flench]

Varsoon, stop using the phrase"grasping at straws" that's like 5 times now.

Cherry, you're stupid is showing again. It's so bad that I feel stupid voting with you.

firstworldprobs

[Flench]

Flench you have to admit theres something fishy about it. This time even Saki agrees with us.

Omg he used "us" in a sentence.

I IMMEDIATELY RETHINK MY ENTIRE POSTING HISTORY

IM SO SORRY

[Flench]

Luckily Cherry could be SK and my reads could be correct.

[Flench]

This guy is more desperate to claim than Saki, wtf is going on here?

[Flench]

You outed yourself.....

[Flench]

Why would i make an outburst regarding whether i'm a pr or not when i'm not even near close to danger of being lynched?

Exactly, why would you?

[Flench]

Decent point. Since Varsoon apparently didn't read the setup the CC was pointless...

[Flench]

Yea bro he's been sippin dat titus varsoon drank since he got here.

[Flench]

Jmo post a full read list with evidence and stop being a lazy whore or I am changing my vote to you.

[Flench]

I'll give you 12 hours. Your move.

[Flench]

you realize its 1 in the morning my time?

I guess you better stop dicking around and get started then.

[Flench]

you realize its 1 in the morning my time?

I guess you better stop dicking around and get started then.

im actually studying for a calc exam tomorrow morning. doesnt look like il be getting to your reads post. too bad.

You aren't studying atm and you aren't escaping my vote so it's your choice.

[Flench]

Instead of keeping up with this thread for the last thirty minutes you could have just made your list.

Also jmo here you go, helped me out in calc 1-3 and difeq, I'm not unreasonable

patrickjmt.com

[Flench]

He better use that damn website I gave him, shit is cash.

[Flench]

How do you feel about finally getting rid of my vote in 12 hours Varsoon?

[Flench]

Vote: Unvote

Not done with JMO yet, he must make the read list with evidence for each person before I can let him slide. Voting him in 1.5 hours.

It would also be nice to let the new new guy catch up.

TV doesn't seem to be interested in JMO at all.

[Flench]

Do you want to hammer Varsoon?

[Flench]

Time is up JMO.

Vote:jmo16mla

[Flench]

First off Varsoon, you have been grasping at (straws) any possible wagon since you claimed VT. You don't seem to care if the person is mafia or not.

Cherry - All of a sudden you leave the Titus/Varsoon monologue you will not shut up about, weird. This is a huge tell you are mafia with jmo, you obviously want an easy lynch, but would not take the easy jmo lynch. Why?

Xiaox - How is not caring if you get lynched a protown play? You are helping mafia by letting the town lynch you. Trying to fight a lynch is always a town move, and giving up is a mafia move.

atm you're acting no better than JMO, stubbs
you come in, you tunnel someone, and you make a bunch of people doubt your alignment

To be honest I don't care anymore what anyone thinks of my alignment. I just want this game to move forward.

I want answers and most of those involve Varsoon's alignment.

Oriole you mentions earlier the above post was scummy.

I think the bolded sentence makes perfect sense, if I knew Varsoon's alignment I would know a lot about this game, same goes for jmo to an extent. I don't think a Stubbs lynch would give a lot of info compared to the other two.

[Flench]

TV's posts have made me laugh out loud about 5 times so far in this game, so he is beating everyone else by 5.

I so very do want to vote Varsoon again, but jmo is being unreasonable, I shared with him the best math resource on the internet and he didn't even say thanks.

Oriole, I also think not wanting to defend yourself is a mafia move, as I said in my last post, but Titus doesn't and Xioaoaioiaux doesn't either. I think the point Stubbs had was good though, and it just read as something I agreed with.

[Flench]

Oh man scum hunting is so scummy and inconsistent with the scum hunting Varsoon has been doing all game, better try to misrep it.

If you think scumhunting is protown, why do you think I am mafia?

[Flench]

@Flench: You haven't done enough of it, and the hunting you've done so far reflects majority sensibilities. Trust me, you're not nearly as high on my scum-list as Cherry/JMO.

So my huge post accusing Titus was done with the majority?

[Flench]

@Flench: You haven't done enough of it, and the hunting you've done so far reflects majority sensibilities. Trust me, you're not nearly as high on my scum-list as Cherry/JMO.

So my huge post accusing Titus was done with the majority?

Yet you're voting jmo.

We get it, you are terrified of a jmo lynch. Stop making it so obvious, we would like a challenge.

[Flench]

why are you in such a rush?

Why are you still lurking? Just post a full read list with evidence and tell me thanks for that link and I'll unvote you.

[Flench]

why are you in such a rush?

Why are you still lurking? Just post a full read list

with evidence

and tell me thanks for that link and I'll unvote you.

everyone is town.

except varsoon. hes super scum.

Also, thank you. Im on calc 1 for the third time.

You are 2/3 of the way there, I want to vote Varsoon so please let me.

[Flench]

Yeah, i was reaction testing, now i have a feeling Xiao is town.

Cherry I don't even know where to start.

[Flench]

why are you in such a rush?

Why are you still lurking? Just post a full read list

with evidence

and tell me thanks for that link and I'll unvote you.

everyone is town.

except varsoon. hes super scum.

Also, thank you. Im on calc 1 for the third time.

You are 2/3 of the way there, I want to vote Varsoon so please let me.

He's not even 1 third. He doesn't have enough scums and there's no evidence. I'm also not certain what calculus I has to do with anything.

Then you haven't read all of the posts and you should die.

jk, I gave him a great website link for math studying.

And I have faith he is about to make a great post with his reads.

[Flench]

Ah, I can't keep track of all the possible roles in this set up.

I wanted to get more reactions from it, but Titus spoiled the fun too soon. Your reaction was townish tho, so i'm glad you're town.

Nuke: Cherry

huehuehue, let's see who is town now, hueheuheu

You continue to amaze me Cherry.

[Flench]

I mean I am waiting on your wagon so you should be happy.

[Flench]

Cherry, you can stop being absurd now.




@Flench:

You just told JMO to prove his innocence by providing a reads list.

In what world do you think he wouldn't, even as scum?

What? Where did I say it proves his innocence? Do you ever tell the truth?

It just gives us information, which is good for the town.

The fact that I will switch my vote is just an incentive, which is obviously needed.

Also in what world would jmo not post his read list? ummmm this one....

Are you drunk? You are usually better than this.

[Flench]

Oh well since im technically dead already i'll claim and you'll see why i was so paranoid
I'm Town vigilante.
That's why i knew for certain there's 1 scum roleblocker MVVXXXXX
So i knew i'd be the target for a roleblock if scum knew my PR. And im most probably gonna be roleblocked and shot tonight.

Decide whether to believe or not, that's your choice.

Go ahead and lynch me if you want, im starting to lose interest in this game anyways because town's being so dumb that no one's gonna believe my claim anyways, and my claim will make me dead tonight, so yeah im dead either way.

Well i knew my crazy playstyle combined with DP would be fun, too bad it's not gonna end well for us and for town

Ah screw it, im getting tired of waiting

Daykill: Titus

I am trying to avoid name calling here (sorry I said you were drunk Varsoon). But Cherry is playing really badly.

He would not shut up about being a PR even though nobody was pressuring him about it....

I think that he actually thought he could daykill as the vig....

He had 1 vote on him, acted like he was already dead, and claimed vig....

What. The. Fuck.

This game is ridiculous. I guess if you stay in day 1 long enough people just can't handle it and explode.




Another thing.

So some people like the game so far (people who have 2+ hours a day to play it) and some don't (people who don't).

Saki please stop name calling and spam posting and telling everyone to be as active as you. This is a chat room not a forum. Everyone has been pretty active except for Dyslexicon. This game is just special, that's a nice word for it. Stop yelling at people to read the thread, your posts have made that a horrible chore. Just chill Saki.

For the record I like the game and have read every post, but that's just because I have a lot of free time atm, if I didn't I would probably be behind.

[Flench]

* This is a forum not a chat room.

[Flench]

Tried to edit but Saki already posted twice lol.

[Flench]

Uh without encouraging a debate with you Saki, I disagree with you about Cherry and people not being active.

Maybe if you put thought into your posts and stopped doing this stream of consciousness shit, everyone would be a bit happier.

[Flench]

Varsoon....

As town you have to make moves that make it possible for the town to identify you as town, and you didn't do that.

If you think you played the greatest game and we are all fools for thinking you are mafia, then you are delusional.

[Flench]

Ok so jmo dedicates his entire game to getting Varsoon lynched. Varsoon is mafia. So how is jmo mafia again? Mafia could have tried to kill Titus you know, or doctor save?

I have strong cases against everyone with evidence but cannot make my long post until tomorrow or later since I just drove across the country today and I am busy for now.

Please don't kill anyone for a few days, only mafia wants a fast lynch with no discussion.

[Flench]

I have strong cases against everyone with evidence

So everybody is scum?

No cases to why some people are town and some are scum.

Don't make me hate you bro.

[Flench]

Salmonella can you unvote until you have read the thread and given a read list, or I have time to get my big post up, really don't want to get screwed.

[Flench]

I thought I could get some wifi but I am limited to phone access until Sunday night so I can't do my large write up until then. Sorry boyos.

If you didn't think the case against Jmo was compelling, then you're just bad. Sorry.

xP
Rereading that sounds a lot meaner than intended. It's meant mostly as a joke. Though I do still think my case on Jmo is flawless.

Your reads so far are wrong, you didn't want the Varsoon lynch. Stop acting like you know everything or are even good at this game.

Everyone else, carry on, I am reading constantly even if I can't post much.

[Flench]

Hey guys trust me I want lynch my mafia buddy but let's do jmo first then cherry then we can get to Varsoon.

Really convincing stuff.

[Flench]

I thought you wanted to look into me

No, no, I want to hang you tomorrow. I don't need to look at you for that.

Stop misrepping yourself.

[Flench]

Because I am on my phone out of town and can't make the post I was born for without my computer.

[Flench]

I do.

[Flench]

OK, here it is.

Thanks for being so compliant, Flench.
This really goes a long way, and, if you are town, it'll do an amazing job of proving that later in the game.
If you're scum, it'll have the same effect, since you just provided a lot of hypothetical outlooks that'll play into trajectory of your votes/methods later.
Essentially, you're being as transparent as possible through these last few posts, and I see that as the most town thing a player can do.

@Titus: Buddying is null. Furthermore, I'd like to encourage Flench to post more because I think he's got a solid town voice and more content from him makes reading him easier and provides a lot for town to work on.

Oreo, you are double-stuffed.
Also, I agree with Flench!Town, am skeptical of Stubbz, and I think Oriole is town too.

Flench, you realize how scummy that sounds, right?
You want to string me up now because if I have time, I might prove my innocence?
Honestly, if you feel so worried about me, lynch me on D2 or D3. As of now, I've provided enough Wifom to make scum waste a NK or PR on me, which is good enough. I can say things like this due to the WIFOM already created. I can bluff right at scum because of what I've done and they have no way of knowing if I'm a PR or not, and so I'm high-risk for scum to keep alive.

Instead, Flench, you should be tracking my logic through the entire game with the knowledge that I am VT. A lot of my actions make a lot more sense once you know that.

In fact, this is exactly what I'm talking about in 1044.

Vote: Flench

Basically, it seemed like Varsoon was trying to buddy Flench after Flench posted his notes, and when it failed went back to saying Flench was scum.

Oriole, please make your case instead of just posting quotes.

I don't know where you were going with the thing between Varsoon and I.

Am I a bad boy or a good boy?

[Flench]

Hey salmonella, please post a full read list when you are done reading.

I just went back to read Xiao's case on jmo in 1333. It's basically him making snarky comments about everything jmo has posted saying he was going for the easy mislynch(IT WASNT A MISLYNCH). I agree his posts have been bad, but so far he has been tunneling mafia, that is not common mafia play. There is bussing, then there is trying to get mafia killed with no other actions. Jmo did the latter. When you just call that bussing, it seems like you have other reasons for wanting to get jmo lynched. Also you keep saying you don't care if you get lynched, bad town play and suspicious, and you clearly care.

Xiao was my top mafia pick after Varsoon flipped, Jmo was my most town, along with TV, after the flip.

Xiao came in and instantly tried to deflect the Varsoon lynch, and his predecessor said he would never vote Varsoon. His jmo case was weak, he is mafia.

Vote: Xiao

Sorry Saki, but I think it's more likely there was a doctor save or a double target, rather than jmo being mafia and getting blocked.

I should be able to get to my computer tonight. Only phone for now.

[Flench]

@TV

Yea the last 6 days have been crazy, but I am home now. Some places like my grandmothers house do not have wifi, I probably should have just posted I was on V/LA. Posting from my phone is bad and I missed something important apparently.

Ok so I didn't see the part where you claimed cop and cleared Xiao. Why was there such little discussion over this, it was just a note in one of your posts....

So he could be Godfather, but I'll have to go back through some posts when I get a bit more time and reconsider the vote.

Unvote

for now

I was pretty confident after Varsoon flipped that I knew who the remaining mafia were, but night actions didn't confirm anything and just made my reads more unlikely. I was going to do a large write up on the reads but now I am not so sure about them.

I still think jmo went pretty hard after Varsoon while Xiao did the opposite. I can't ignore that.

[Flench]

Btw in case you missed that ^

Godfather is confirmed if we are believing everyones claims.

I've been spending some time looking at the setup and I doubt there are any PR's left that haven't claimed (haven't done the math). Mass claiming would be ok I guess, I disagree with letting people wait, hinting they are a PR but not actually claiming, that lets mafia just never claim until the end and say yea I'm a PR so I waited, it's a bad idea. It should be done at a specified time or in order or something. But I don't everyone to get off track if someone goes afk or misses their specified claim spot, I don't think we are going to get much info mass claiming so don't freak out about the process of it and jump on someone for a dumb reason.

We are in almost an ideal situation on day 2, lets not shit the bed now.

[Flench]

I agree with most of the things Bulb said in his last post.

For the record.

[Flench]

Jmo, I don't know why I have to ask this again, but give a full read list with evidence for everyone and that will be a start.

[Flench]

I was wrong about jmo, dat hard buss.

Good shot Cherry, I thought you would pick me.

Good game all.

[Flench]

thanks

if you guys want roughly the same playerlist, I suggest Saki and Varsoon should do their hydra in c9--

I think the universe might explode. How does the site handle it when two people are trying to post on the same account in a frenzy at the same time?

Haha it would just be a hydra talking to itself for pages.