Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
Huh, you guys have really been active, huh?
@Mod: Could you put commas between the players in the votecounts? Thanks.
I get the case on tiger, but I don't really get the case on HD. Could someone clarify it?
Also, do we really have two players who basically want each other out of the game? (tiger/zab)
Because that seems like a horribly convenient thing for them to say, to not participate in scumhunting and bus each other at the same time. Have you two done the same thing before in a previous game? That is, each of you attacking the other for "knowing in advance they'll be anti-town"?
Also, @Wisdom: Actually, when reading up on the setup, I originally thought that a massclaim would be a good idea too. Until I saw that multiple people of the same time are possible. And it's an easy thing to miss, so I'd say that's null and not a scumtell.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
Anyone who wants to PL tiger for wanting to PL zab is being a hypocrite.
Also, although his constant impoliteness is annoying, it's very much not a scumtell.
The defensiveness and OMGUS points, brought up by Disturbed are valid, but not enough, in my opinion.
I am opposed to any policy lynches and I don't see enough of a case on tiger to assume that the wagon on him is more than PL.
Having said that, @tiger: For crying out loud, man. There is no need to be so abrasive. Mafia is a cooperation game; being polite helps with that. If you're town, could you try toning it down?
@mollie: You missed the 'h' in 'http' in both your smileys, as well as messing up the tags in one. Also, who is scum, why, and why aren't you voting them?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@HD (damn it you guys post too much in one go): mollie's 143 reads more like a joke than anything, to me. Also, I think I'm fairly rational, and my vote is on someone that I have absolutely no read on (he hasn't really said anything), because it was an RVS vote I never changed, because I don't see anyone else as a solid scumread, yet.
Speaking of which, what happened to your scumread on tiger? I mean, you were one of the people voting him, who didn't do it because of his rudeness, but because you made an actual case on him being scum. Did you change your mind about him?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Wisdom: I've gone through mollie's ISO in Micro 99, but I'm not sure I see where she behaves the way you say. She seems to be fairly active in the discussions. She doesn't seem to have called anyone solidly scum and not moved her vote on them.
Newbie 1309, which butter linked seems to be much more like her actions in this game, though. Here's the problem though. She was specifically attacked the same way in that game. She has said as much herself, here. She knows that that's part of her meta and that she can use it. I'm not sure that her town-meta is an adequate defense. Can it be clearly shown that she does not do the same as scum?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
I'm not liking Distrubed's support of policy lynches (tiger and then mollie).
@Disturbed: Do you have meta examples of yourself where you support policy lynches, like that? (As both alignments if possible, please.)
Wisdom is probtown and for now I'll trust his opinion on mollie (I'm guessing it looks like null-town? That's what it seems like to me).
On the other hand, I'm not sure I follow his and zab's attack on Puck. His posts seem null to me.
Right now, my gut is telling me to
Unvote
Vote: HD
His play is reminding me of how he was in one of the games I stalked (one of the recent Newbie games, I think). He was scum in that one.
p-edit: What Wisdom said.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Disturbed: To be honest I don't see it. You say he hasn't addressed your question. The thing is, I said you were pushing for a PL on mollie. The same thing Wisdom said. That's exactly addressing your question, in what I consider a pro-town manner. We shouldn't lynch mollie (or anyone) for being too hard to read, because that would be a PL and PLs are generally bad. Now mollie is in a hydra (which makes reading her harder) with Majiffy (who is also quite difficult to read). Should we lynch them for that, irrespective of their actual alignment? No, that's a very anti-town thing to do.
I take Wisdom's response to be a perfectly valid answer and my read on him is town.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
RV, then the tiger issue, then sheeping zab, then sheeping Wisdom.
Yeah, I guess you do have a point.
My only worry is that he's just being uninterested town. Which is also a bad thing, but still...
(For those not following the thread too carefully, this was about Siv)You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@CF: Maybe from the discussion forums, or from stalking a game he was in, or maybe you saw his profile and decided this because of his age, or something.
So, who are your top scumreads? I've seen your attacks on HD and queen, but I don't think I noticed anything else.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@HD: My vote's on you, so it should be obvious that I think you're the scummiest of them all. As I mentioned when I voted you, the reason is gut. Which means I can't really formulate it properly in words and I'm using "gut" as an excuse. It's basically a general sense I'm getting from many of your posts that they're not coming from a town mindset. My next highest is probably Siv. That's basically because of Beauty's case on him, earlier. The bad votes.
I have no other major scumreads at this time, so I'm guessing one of the players with less content would be the third mafia, if I'm right.
Town reads on Wisdom, CF, Pro, Beauty and zab, in order of strength.
Everyone else is pretty much null.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
The foreground is taken by pointless back-and-forths between Wisdom and whoever is accusing him at the time.
Conservative play is not a scumtell.
Non-controversial targets are non-controversial because they are obv.scum. Otherwise they would be controversial.
Keep trying.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@zab: You'll note that I also said that I think that HD doesn't seem to have a pro-town mindset. So, no, it's not only the similarities with his other scumgame. And how did I overstate anything? I said what I think on PL's. Also, you will note that what I asked about Siv was followed by Beauty's response, which I accepted. And the thing you quoted about non-controversial targets was in response to HD's case on me. So, what exactly is your point?
@CF: Why do you want to lynch me?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@zab: No other major scumreads. Hence, Siv's minor one got bumped up. The worry is still there.
@HD:
1) No, I didn't. What with all the bullshit happening in the foreground, I didn't have any actual scumreads. Until, you know, I voted for you.
2) No it isn't. Wanting everyone to hold to a single playstyle, specifically the one you favour, is short-sighted.
3) See above. And Siv isn't obv-scum to me, but if he's "not controversial" which was your assertion, that means that others want him lynched too.
Your case is terrible, you've got nothing except a bunch of poppycock and you're either scum, trying to go for a mislynch, because your previous attempts at this failed, or just bad at figuring out what constitutes a scumtell and what is simply confirmation bias.
Once again, keep trying.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
I don't want him to go away. I want him to keep talking. I want to read him more. I think he's scum and I want to get more info either to support this, or change my mind. Why are you so opposed to discussion in a game about discussion? Afraid you might make too many slips?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@HD:
1) No, I don't think so. If people get into wall wars, or in this case, posting wars, I just let them do their thing, until they run out of steam. Massive amounts of posting from a few people are a sign of emotions running high, which is a terrible time for reasoning.
2) Again, you're assuming things go by emotion. Asserting that "treading on someone's toes" leads to them "wanting to lynch me later" assumes that people don't care about motivations, when scumhunting and instead see who offended them more. And I understand this, but it's not how I think.
3) People have had scum reads and town reads on you. Possibly Siv, as well. If your definition of non-controversial is about people fighting it tooth and nail, then you're in for a surprise as to how many people your list will include.
@CF: Look back at 791. Pro responded to 790 and explained. And that was the only scummy thing I thought I saw from him. He seems to be earnest in his hunting, so yes, my read on him is town.
Also, welcome new replacements.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@CF: I didn't put him in a scummy light. I asked him what he meant, because I misunderstood it and thought it was something very very scummy. He responded, and I was fine with his response. As for his earnestness, he pushed mollie, when he thought he caught her in a scumslip, he does a thorough research into the posts of whomever he is making a case and he's been actively increasing the content and conversation levels. That's pretty much all I need to read him as town.
@queen: Something about pots and kettles.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
My biggest scumread out of these is still Rach. I'm not sure I buy her claim. Looking back at Siv, I think he would be unlikely to play as he played, if he were a D1 PR. Also, I am less sure about HD. I've looked at a few more of his games and I'm not confident in my read on him.
Unvote
Vote: RachMarie
Also, how exactly is Wisdom's "if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?" scummy? It points out that one should keep in mind all possible scenarios, which is actually a rather townie thing to do.
p-edit: Rach is on L-1 now.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Wisdom: I was. Now I'm not. I thought his tunneling was a scumtell, but now... And Siv was replaced by Rach. She has the same role PM he had. If she is telling the truth, Siv was a D1 Doc. I don't think he was. I think Rach is lying and if so, she needs to be lynched.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Wisdom: Posts like 438, 441, 515. Also, his general lack of participation. Also, what exactly is your case on D_O? All I remember you saying was that you prefer lynching him, instead of HD. Just a quick summary will do.
@Rach: I played two games with Siv. He was town in both. He was very much not like this.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Wisdom: The thing is, I'd expect a D1 PR to be more interested with the game. His power is an early one. He only needs to survive one day and one night to have used it, hopefully effectively. I'd expect least interested town to be D5 PRs, who are almost certainly not going to be able to make a difference. Also, it's not just Siv being a doctor There's also his opportunistic votes. And after that, Rach hasn't helped things much. For example, she claimed long before she needed to and gave links to prove that "she's often an easy lynch" as she put it, when no one asked for them. Also, this bit: "Keep an eye on them Wisdom... " in 1096. Little bits like buddying. Stuff like that.
So, how about that case?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
OK, this might be a silly question but, if someone was a D1 PR, should they claim now? Because they'd no longer be any different from a VT, so there's no new info they can provide beyond what happened last night. And if they don't claim and happen to die overnight, we'd lose that info.
If someone's played this sort of game before and knows whether this is a good or bad idea, this would be a good time to say so.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@chik: Your post right after the hammer makes it seem like you hadn't realised Rach was at L-1, which implies you weren't paying much attention to what had happened. Now, 1232 implies that you at least went over the 48 or so pages before and had a good idea of what was going on. These two positions are contradictory.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@queen: Vague dismissals are invalid and pointless. Do something helpful, for once.
@chk: Me, personally? Nothing. I was on the Rach wagon as well. But others were still discussing their reads, so obviously they wanted more. Why would you cut that short?
Here's another question though. If you didn't bother reading the game, why would you hammer Rach? You couldn't possibly have a scumread on her.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@queen: chk was getting grilled for his Rach hammer and you hammered him without even asking for a claim? This is not a pro-town action. Why on earth would you end discussion, so unthinkingly?
Vote: Mcqueen
Anyone who voted chk for his hammer and isn't at the very least questioning queen's actions, should take a good hard look at what they're doing.
@CF: I thought we discussed your scumread on me and I countered your point. Do you have a new reason for it, or...?You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
Ow.
Hawk seems town. I'm not 100% sold on his kmd case, but I will sheep it, if nothing better presents itself.
CF wants me dead, but he's most likely town. Jalyn is also on the wagon, without good reasons. Could be scum.
I have no idea about anyone else...You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
Why would the same person (if scum) put himself on both mislynches (as scum, he'd know they'd be mislynches) and leave himself open to something everyone uses, like vote analysis? Particularly when there are 3 scum, so it would be easy to shuffle them around a bit.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@zab: It wasn't necessary. I was making a point.
@Cheery: A mislynch is a mislynch.
@CF: Because she somehow should have known his alignment, before you revealed your investigation results? That's a terrible argument. mcqueen hammered without waiting for a claim. Anyone who did vote him, before your claim, should be getting townpoints, instead.
@kmd: I am a terrible lynch, but there certainly are 3 people who are scummier than me. The scumteam. I think you're wrong about Pro, though.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@CF: 1) So, what is the argument? 2) I already responded to that, when mcqueen said it. 3) He was NOT a confirmed townie, before you made your claim. At that point he had been a mislynch hammerer.
@Jalyn: Again, voting someone who's being replaced and hammering them are two different things.
@Kmd: Meh.
And because there have already been two rushed hammers:
Claim - Doctor, N3. That was why I picked Rach's mislynch, to bring up.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@Jalyn: You did make your argument clear. I do not agree with it and I explained why. I believe you are hiding behind CF's tunneling, to get me mislynched, which is why you are happy to stick with a flawed argument. I can elaborate, though.
Firstly, your predecessor did virtually nothing except take a jab at tiger and slimer, when it seemed fairly safe to do so and fluff a bit. Nothing big, but nothing too great, either.
Then, you came in and did a bit of catching up, giving some reads and so on, everything was fine. However, I note that you had a scumread on mcqueen and a townread on me. Day 2 happened, day 3 started, you came in voting me, without a single thought in mcqueen's direction, even though his hammer was at least as bad as my L-1 vote (though I maintain it was strictly worse). Remember that your vote came 9 posts before CF's claim. This makes it seem like your mcqueen scumread was merely for show and not a sincere one.You don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
@kmd: You countered Pro's #1465 by saying "If you've found scum, you need to convince the rest of the town you are right.", implying that this is what you were doing. And yet, your contribution on that end was minimal. Also, you said yourself that you didn't engage your suspects in more conversation. This implies that you're so convinced of their alignment, that you do not care to reevaluate. Only scum know everyone's alignment.
Your claim is identical to chk's, which does not make it impossible, but it is convenient, as Pro said. It's right on the edge of the LyLo, where more information would seem to make a difference. This is actually not the case, because we have some information already.
I think you're scum and I hope I'm right.
Vote: kmdYou don't have ambiguity; you haveoptions.-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He
-
-
Mitillos HeMafia ScumHe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: August 23, 2012
- Pronoun: He