JOAT uPick | FIN!

[Ircher]

VOTE: Maid Cafe

[Ircher]

HolySpirit, why do you doubt the relativistic harmony?

[Ircher]

Yes. Yes I would.

[Ircher]

Welcome Doctor Drew!

[Ircher]

Yes. Yes I would.

If you have any sort of suspicion why would you let that slide?

And pray, what might that suspicion be?

[Ircher]

I don’t get that.

your claim in RVS seems like you're scum trying to generate townread by claiming a trivially confirmable scummy ability as if you would as if you're scum trying to fakeclaim Miller

-TL

Well, if it's a miller claim, we can just fade Bell later like we do all miller claims? No use focusing on this for right now.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Ircher]

I'll be V/LA til tomorrow evening due to work then I'll be here

Will you be having fun?

[Ircher]

Hmm... Bell is lacking in energy this game...

[Ircher]

zzz

Why are you so sleepy?

[Ircher]

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

Not only is your vote not on bell, you have not articulated a single reason to suspect he is mafia.

Your only mention of him I can find is this:

bell is mafia btw

my work here is done

And his posts prior to your post 26 have no major feature, except the note about his role being able to take players out of the thread, which you've yet to comment on in any way.

All you've done is make posts in communist/union speak with no substance.

That's just how Pooky rolls. I'd judge them later when we are at a more substantial point in the game.

[Ircher]

VOTE: LadyTerminallyOffline

Explanation?

[Ircher]

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

Not only is your vote not on bell, you have not articulated a single reason to suspect he is mafia.

Your only mention of him I can find is this:

bell is mafia btw

my work here is done

And his posts prior to your post 26 have no major feature, except the note about his role being able to take players out of the thread, which you've yet to comment on in any way.

All you've done is make posts in communist/union speak with no substance.

That's just how Pooky rolls. I'd judge them later when we are at a more substantial point in the game.

Are you saying that PookyTheMagicalBear plays in a poor quality manner all the time as some sort of joke? I don't see what past games have to do with the fact that he is ignoring the content of Bell's limited posting while calling him mafia, while also not actively voting for him or trying to convince people that he is mafia, in any way?

Please explain, I am very confused now.

Well no and yes. I wouldn't call it "poor quality" but again, you'll find there's a large spectrum of playstyles that you will need to account for. Some people are very serious while others are more focused on having a good time. Some people search for all the logical inconsistencies while others play largely by "gut" and intuition. Some people are very aggressive with their reads while others are more reserved and only vote when they are confident. The better strategy is to focus on the overarching motivation and strategizing over the specific contents of each individual post because playstyles differ so much.

[Ircher]

Official Union Membership Roll:

President & Party Chair: Pooky
General Counsel & Chief Hugger: Titus
Incompetent Bean Counter/Wannabe Capitalist Spy: Firebringer
Warrior Poet: Laplacian
Chief Questioner: Ircher

KING OF THE PIRATES: MONKEY D. LUFFY

Where comes this sudden energy where before there was tiredness?

[Ircher]

I dunno what the point of pressuring me out the gate is when I just slip all over myself when given time.

I can't help it when you scum claim on the first page

but you are a good friend so I'm not actually going to vote you unless I can't find any of your scumbuddies and one thing I've learned over the years is that sometimes keeping scum alive so they have to awkwardly interact with their team is better than bringing them instant justice.

But I’m town tho.

But are you really?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Bell

[Ircher]

Ircher shouldn’t vote me, the hell Ircher.

Perhaps I shouldn't, but I am. What are you going to do about it?

[Ircher]

I encourage people to day vig ircher.
Troll Ircher is usually scum Ircher.

[Citation needed.]

[Ircher]

That was Defcon. Everyone trolls there.

[Ircher]

The thing is with that terminally offline lady, is that lich said my role didn’t have much scumminess to it and then said I was scum.

Scum equity = likelihood of being scum. Or % of stocks i own. Er, maybe he was saying that my value as scum wasn’t much because of the ability I claimed but I think they clarified so all they said was, was that I wasn’t likely scum for that claim and the. Said they were scum reading me for it.

No, your claimed role has low scum equity, but Harmony did not appear to believe that was your true role hence the high suspicion.

[Ircher]

Well, that's what I made of Harmony's logic. It's not why I'm voting you currently, so you'll have to press Harmony for the actual details.

[Ircher]

I already said.

[Ircher]

Hmm... Bell is lacking in energy this game...

[Ircher]

Yes, I'm sure, at least for the posts prior to that post.

[Ircher]

prior interactions

Is it expected to go read the prior games of players before playing with them?

No but also yes. I don't typically bother to read past games (but if I've played with someone before, I'll have an idea), but it can help you get a sense of a player's playstyle and personality.

[Ircher]

14 pages already. I'll catch up in a bit

Did this happen?

[Ircher]

LADYTERMINALLYONLINE'S BOUNTY
FIVE HOUNDRED THOUSAND
I'M GONNA FIGHT HER!

Why?

THEIR ATTACKS AGAINST MY CREW ARE LAME!

Who is in your "crew"? Which attacks were lame?

IF UR NAME IS HERE I WANT MEAT
BELL
LADYTERMINALLYOFFLINE
HU TAO
SAKURA HANA
DUNNSTRAL
MAID CAFE (WHERE'S MY ORDER?!?!?!)
RELATIVISTIC YOURMOTHER
LEMON.FOOD

Haven't some of these people already done so?

[Ircher]

btw you just perspective slipped me as town lol

I will never perfectly use grammar in this regard, you know that about pretty much everyone.
It is true that there’s no humiliation if you’re scum tho.

What does grammar have to do with Pooky's observation?

My viewpoint and writing is not perfect, I will not always take scum you and town you into account in the same breath. I’ve been accused of perspective slips almost exclusively as town. If anything I’m more careful about that sort of thing as scum.

It just didn’t work rhetorically for me to try seeing if you’d respond to that sort of angle while in the same breath.

Sure, I can buy you not always thinking about it, but that's not a grammar problem...

So I can harass him about how much he sucks afterward.

Yes that still assumes he’s town but the entire premise is significant garbage. It is the lowest form of hunting. Grammar bullshit reaped with weak justifications.

It had nothing to do with grammar. Grammar would be along the lines of using the wrong words or punctuation.

It was in reference to the fact that I can post after I die.

This is completely new information about your supposed role that seems to be a fabrication to cover up a perspective slip.

VOTE: Bell

This is a good catch. I don't know if it is a fabrication, but I'm wondering why Bell felt now was a good time to mention this.

[Ircher]

Either ability.
I should have asked for a day vig.

I did and was denied .

how I claim these things does and you’re not commenting on it.

why would I comment on it

Because you, as resident Bell tea leaf reader should know. I’m such an easy sort after all. That you should this is pretty out of character for me not to test the waters on stuff first before giving up information or making myself vulnerable.

Why shouldn't we kill you if you can talk after death? In the worst case, we'd get confirmation Pooky is wrong AND have a voice to listen to?

This is poor logic. Obviously, if we fade a union member, that puts us behind. Having a free voice is not in most cases lead to a higher likelihood of winning compared to fading the correct person in the first place.

I'M TAGGING IN BEEBOY FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS

I was kind of expecting to hear from beeboy by now.

Yikes, Anywayy I don't really get the hype abt Bell's saecificial cult going on but i don't really care enough to stop it.

Joyboy is scummier than Bell if we ignore the "perspective slip" which i will be ignoring bc tbh if nobody is going to write it out in one post explaining it then ill give you my opinion on it.

Now because some ppl will forsure misunderstand this, Ill say this is simpler terms.

Bell maybe scum? Yes Is bell the best vote currently? No

Im happy with killing Joyboy before anyone else forsure And hu tao better get their head in the game soon

VOTE: Joyboy

This is unclear. What is your opinion on the "perspective slip"?

Titus, please accept my pocket request thank you~

Oh pocketed. I'm kinda distracted bc work and my mind is stuck on confused mode.

Apparently at least two people have the same day action and both targeted me.

Is this an ascetic claim?

[Ircher]

I’m literally no more accurate than anyone else. I can be a trusted voice without being eliminated because I am easy to read and I only get more difficult to eliminate over time.

Ok soooo wanna vote joyboy?

What’s wrong with joyboy besides that they’re a gimmick?

You have something to find them town for?

They are providing some content.. The signal to noise ratio is just poor.

I have just this to say.

I am not a fan of unions.

In fact I am a greedy capitalist.

Therefore the true heroes of this game are the union busters, and I am therefore declaring I am a union buster.

Unions are corrupt, they only benefit the corrupt union leaders at the top and force us members to bear them a tax they call union fees to be a "member", they argue about collective bargaining to ensure us better treatment. But name the last time a union really helped u out with your issue?

None.

Therefore down with unions. Individual bargaining for the win.

Btw before I go let's eliminate the day one scumclaim! VOTE: Firebringer

This is the entirety of Light's posting to date, for context.

And?

TemporalLich early D1 lead rist:

[Town]

PookyTheMagicalBear - Obvious town, spewed as town by Bell's perspective slip in 381
Firebringer - Very firebringer, don't see scum mindset here
Titus - Very towny imo, 601 is a good post
LadyTerminallyOffline - Very good at questioning and pushing
Laplacian - Has good reads in 646 backed by a town mindset
lemon.tangerine - has good reads in 590, somewhat town vibes
Doctor Drew - somewhat town vibes
Ircher - Somewhat game solvey
Sakura Hana - 264 seems like an okay post
Dunnstral - null read with an iota of a town read
Maid Cafe - null read tbh
Hu Tao - devoid of content
Bell - perspective slipped but has an upward trend of towniness
light_ganski - uhh idk
HolySpiritTurtle - still seems scummy, especially with 333
Joyboy - Very much fluff posting and hiding behind the fluff posts as a defense

[Scum]

Where is RH?

[Ircher]

Okay no offense but that is by far the worst type of read ive heard in a while. And I've used typeracer to make reads before based on timing people

That "perspective slip" is a immediate drop

I personally feel it has merit.

[Ircher]

Such posts are more often than not made by towns than wolves so likeee i don't exactly support it + bell hasnt been too bad lately

Sure, but you are also more likely to be town than scum from a pure probabilistic standpoint as well. I think the ratio if you compare the probability of "perspective slipping" given you are town to the probability of "perspective slipping" given you are scum will be closer to 1:1.

[Ircher]

fire away.
~rh

I'm just shocked by how few posts you have. You are letting Temporal lead. Why?

[Ircher]

Forget it.

Tldr: Yes and no, it was in reference to Titus, not Ircher.
Insert Ircher meta. I think he's goal oriented when he isn't getting himself killed by trolling and not knowing where people's tolerance lines are.

Ate my post twice. smh.

In reference to this game, there's a point to what Ircher is doing and it's probably AI, I just don't know how to interpret what he's doing. What was funny to me is that unless I misread what he wrote, his recent response to why he thought I might be scum is that when you controlled for scum v town roll rates it would probably be 50/50 or, in other words, it would be completely random. It was a very weird way to try to justify why they leaned scum on it. Rather, the conclusion doesn't fit their own words.But maybe I misread what they were saying. Back to paper.

The odds of being scum by random guessing is quite a bit lower than 50%, so it could still be a useful tell. For what it's worth though, I'm not putting high weight on the perspective slip. I am simply arguing that it is not as non-alignment indicative as others would have us believe.

catchup page 1-5

i am striking against the capitalist overlords by refusing to produce content without compensation

based and breadpilled

agree w the person against day one massclaim bcos I'd prefer us not to give scum the pick of the best roles to kill off

bell's RVS claim (11) seems fine tho ig? idk why people are commenting on this in particular in terms of reads

lady terminally offline sounds like me when I was newbtown AND actually trying to effort (which wasn't often so good for u)

firebringer outed themself as cringe and capitalcucked i remember that part

the next relevant posts are continuing discussion abt bell's softclaim, agree with HST's (52) and disagree with RH's (56), that seems like a weirdly strong scumread considering we are talking about a role madness game and this is RVS.

I don't think being in RVS detracts from the expressed strength of the read. If anything, people are more likely to express a (weaker) read strongly early in the game to help get us out of RVS.

i guess i could see an argument for bell fishing

I don't think Harmony was arguing this.

but i don't buy thats whats going on here
continuing from this I don't understand RH's reasoning in (62) at all? why is this a "trivially confirmably scummy" ability pls explain if u haven't already in the posts I haven't read yet

(68) i agree with ircher re miller claims but we *haven't had a miller claim yet*. this is common sense though so saying it doesn't mean much

lots of RVS/RPS fluff I'll sort thru once I have more than like 2 reads

Comrades, while unions are essential for an equitable work environment, it is still fundamentally a capitalist system! Our union is only the beginning! We can seize the means of production and establish an anarcho-syndicalist council to distribute resources democratically!

I salute you comrade

LTO's (110) and (121) also read newbie town putting in effort <3

Already wrote about Dunnstral and my mixed feelings of them correcting for their interpretation and being generally accurate. It's weird seeing someone cut through the bullshit and articulate themselves better than I could. Maybe they're informed, maybe they had a good opening.

I think from my experience with Dunnstral, the more "on point" and nit-picky he is, the more likely he is scum.
Lemon: Their positioning is unique, it doesn't come off as scummy to me. Some of their approach reminds me specifically of townie things I've seen players or myself do in the past. I'm not sure what advantage they gain by approaching people's reads of me by saying that Pooky's reasoning sucks and changing position on it.

Luffy: I dunno. My patience is running out but I'm not really reading into them. there's only so much focus I can have and they're just kind of randomly voting people. It's normal for me not to focus on everyone.

While not having a strong read on someone is generally fine, this kind of reads as actively making excuses to not have a read on Joyboy.

VERY strong townread on LTO right now (152), like i don't think this post is *good logic considering the range of metas on the site* and i cannot remember the number of times i've come a cropper because of the "this play isn't helpful so it's scummy" mindset, but in someone completely raw to the site? this is very townie

I disagree. Anyone could make that post regardless of alignment. It seems more a factor of newness than alignment.

161 is a little sus from bell

I actually must sleep so imma stop here for now

What did you find suspicious about 161?

Where is Hu Tao?

Other than sitting with an empty unfulfilled promise to catch up and zero content.

As someone that's terminally offline, you should know people have lives outside of mafia. It's not ever been 8 hours at this point

To be fair, we had like 15 or so pages then, and TerminallyOffline is new to this site. There's also what Bell said in 730.

hey titus, as of now could you maybe look somewhere else that isnt bell?

I have. Joyboy and broccoli are acceptable.

Note comrades, that after I call out Titus's words as being anti-union, she now casts aspersions on my vegeacious self! There is no supporting evidence in her words. Engels himself described this very action in his work

Behaviors of the Modern Capitalist

as an "OMGUS"

It's interesting that no one has an issue with lap role playing but issue with joyboy

Maybe because Laplacian's role play is easier to read by a very large margin...

Spoiler: Long Post

This post is going to be a long one, and I'm going to be making an effort to be detailed. Making this case is also helping me settle my feelings about Bell overall. I'm not sure where exactly the me that is writing the closing paragraph of this post will end up on his alignment, but the me that is starting it thinks Bell is a member of the mafia.

Assumptions made:

-This game contains at most (honestly, exactly) 4 members of the mafia faction
-There is only one mafia faction
-Any potential third parties are non-killing in their roles OR can win with other factions
-Rule 5 of the Game-Specific Rules exists to enforce the above assumptions
-Rule 6 of the Game-Specific Rules exists because at least one role like Bell's claim exists.
-Rule 2 of the Game-Specific Rules in Bell's case does not apply, as his role PM contradicts it.
-The primary objective of the Town faction is to find Mafia
-The primary objective of the Mafia faction is to stay alive (I.E. this game does not have roles that make mafia want to die early)

Before I start citing specific posts and examples, I did want to clarify that Bell's emotions are genuine, and that frustration is a valid thing to feel when being wagoned. However, I do not feel that frustration is something that is unique to one alignment. Frustration as mafia being hunted down is a very common thing, and it is what I am arguing is occurring.


My argument for Bell being a member of the mafia faction in this game takes several different points into consideration.

Firstly, Bell's lack of meaningful scum hunting (or reads) and recurring focus back to the issue of his emotional state.
Secondly, Bell's evolving claims of his role.
Thirdly, Bell's use of a straw man argument to deflect arguments made against him.
Fourthly, Bell's use of discrediting towards his accusers.

Bell's lack of scum hunting and recurring focus back to the issue of his emotional state

Bell as of the writing of this post has 106 posts in the game. In them, I can identify exactly zero explicit reads of a player. I can see a "What's wrong with Joyboy" in post 569, and I can see a "Hu Tao is doing nothing" in post 586. There's what appears to be a town-leaning read of Sakura Hana for indeterminate reasons in post 591, and even that is weaseled out of by denoting that it's mostly applying other people's opinions. 651 appears to be the start of a mafia read of Laplacian, but once again, there's already an out provided in the same post of "that might just be because it’s day 1". At no point is there a read expressed with any conviction whatsoever. Bell is not voting anyone new since post 70, where he voted Relativistic Harmony. Bell deos eventually expand upon his reasons for this vote in post 358, which is never followed up again after that.
However.....
Of the current 106 posts Bell has made. Take a guess on how many revolve around his reported emotional state and "ease of being read" or the back-and-forth that caused it? Come up with your guess, then go ahead and reveal the answer.
Before the "perspective slip" post:

15 or so

After the "perspective slip" post:

20 or so

And I was somewhat generous on erring on the side of "not" if a post was borderline for counting or not. That means that of the 106 posts Bell has made, and being generous,

33.01%, or about one third of his total posting

is about this issue instead of any effort to discern alignments whatsoever.

Bell's evolving claims of his role

Bell claims in his second post, post 11, that he has an ability that takes both himself and another player out of the game for one game day. He then asks for people to share if they could possibly gain from that ability. Then, after some pressure from PookyTheMagicalBear and others, in post 410 a claim comes out about a second ability that allows him to post after he dies. Note that due to special rule 6, we know at least one ability of this sort exists in the game; so even without any sort of additional mod-given safety information, a mafia-aligned Bell can claim this sort of role without being contradicted by the rules.

Bell's use of a straw man argument

Titus claimed that eliminating Bell was better than a generic Town role. Bell then turned around to claim and argue this as "Titus is claiming that an elimination on Bell is better than hitting Mafia" instead of Titus' actual argument.
We can see this interaction starting in post 544, where Titus states that at a game play level specifically, eliminating Bell is less of a downside. At no point does Titus espouse anything other than a mafia read of Bell here. Titus does, in this post, note that she also has a mafia read of Joyboy, and that Joyboy personally may be slightly more mafia to her.
We then see the perspective flip specifically, in post 564, where Bell asks Titus why killing town is "better than letting them live" which is a complete straw man argument, and NOT what Titus' argument entailed.

Bell's constant discrediting of myself, without calling me Mafia

Bell has, at several points in the game, attempted to discredit my ability to play the game rationally, but has not once called me mafia, or even seemingly entertained the idea that I could be mafia pushing him.
In post 171: "LTO’s approach is hard to differentiate between hard nosed because they’re role playing a hard nose or an actual hard nose. "
In post 238: "The only thing that is slightly eyebrow raising is the way you’re noticing pooky doubling down. The wording feels strange. But there’s not much to be said about it. Other than that it feels vaguely round about."
Again, in post 239: "In other words I was asking those questions to gauge if you were genuine or not."
Post 249 is the closest I can discern to a read of me, wherein I am called "Honorary Scum" for..... Posting a double negative? This is never followed up or explained further, nor acted upon with a vote.
Post 419, where Bell notes to "You guys better correct him because I’m at work. *pissed*" (Bell then fixed the gender but at no point even stops to think this could be scum taking advantage of him?)
Post 422, where Bell claims I "failed to realize everyone has multiple abilities I.e., a joat, jack of all trades. Etc etc." (Which was NOT my point, and once again, why couldn't I be mafia pushing this incorrectly?)
Again in the second half of that post, "There are few explanations for why they decided to go down this road. That don’t involve unfamiliarity with a core component of the game." What explanations are these? How many times do these questions expire into the void? A lot.
Post 426, where he just directly calls my reasoning "really bad reasoning." I hate to hammer this point, but why is it explicitly bad reasoning and not just, you know, me being a member of the Mafia exploiting him?
Finally in post 591, we get the weakest "If you're town" fadeaway line. As best I can tell this is the closest to evaluating me Bell has ever gotten. is it followed up at any point? We all know the answer to that one by now.
In post 648, Bell pushes back against calling me quick or intelligent with "Wasn’t LTO the player that said they thought I was scum because I claimed a miller-like role." (Which was not me, as bell then notes in....)
Post 649, where Bell calls me... "Having my own issues" and "getting up to speed"


Hi, post-writing Lady here. I started this post hoping to clarify my thoughts, and I think I pretty much have with a solid mafia read on Bell. Note that I wrote this before the most recent burst of activity, so some of my points may have additional clarity or items provided to judge Bell on based upon his most recent set of posts.

I would like feedback. (No, Bell, not from you, go do the task you're procrastinating on)
Am I playing with tunnel vision, or with blinders on? Is this me reading too much into things?

First two sections seem accurate. I don't agree with the 3rd section. The last section seems like it may be veering towards confirmation bias.

They're going to put you there because you deserve pressure for not existing as other players go up, players that aren't doing anything tend to go down. It's a rat race for scum and even Pooky scum knows that.
Next question

Well other players at that point had barely contributed as well

Yes, there

existed

at least one player other than yourself that had barely contributed at that point. No, not

everyone

had barely contributed at that point. I really don't get why you are arguing against this point using this argument.

[Ircher]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

For someone caught up with the game, you have too many "who"in this post. Plenty of those people have made contributions that you can at least evaluate. Maybe your conclusion will still be null, but it's not like they aren't present at all.

Spoiler: Long Post

1. 4 scum. it doesn't really matter for the purposes of hunting at this point how many scum there are as long as there is more than 1.
2. I think this was stated in the set up. But i don't really recall it, I didn't read it closely. It's probably safe to assume so. I dislike multiball because it's impossible for some players to be differentiated, or rather it can get really difficult.
3. I dunno. i'm not sure how this helps to keep it mind right now.
4. Dunno.
5. Don't care.
6. Elaborate? I don't get it.
7. This isn't an assumption. It's explicitely stated what our win condition is and it's to kill all the mafia.
8. This isn't correct. The point is to reach majority. Staying alive helps with that but not always. This is common sense.

9. Pooky says I don't get frustrated as scum and I feel all guilty. He's not wrong but basically, he completely ignored his own writing about that when I started fitting that frame because it was probably inconvenient. Or they just don't change their mind good.

10. An opinion. One that with careful reading doesn't make sense. I have pushed against people that have scum read me and tried to point out the flaws and tried to figure out if these flaws were because they're scum or because they're flawed. Failing to reach a conclusion is normal for me.

11. I have a feeling I'm going to fail to understand what you're getting at with these, given, well. The first claim I did specifically because I wanted to be constructive and work toward the town win con by working with and communicating my abilities to other people. And the second was to correct a misconception in the perspective of Pooky about what I was getting at. I don't deny it was dumb to claim my second role, but it doesn't really do any harm either. Well unless you think a tree stump is something scum would do. I really want to emphasize what you think or say is convenient, isn't convenient, because it fails the ockham's razor test. It is not a simple explanation for a post, it's a more complicated one that requires more cogs. This sort of complexity has made it so few doubt that I'm a tree stump because it's verifiable. *both* of the abilities I've claimed are verifiable. Which itself is rare and unusual.
12. Titus's argument was that it was better that I would die because of it. Likewise, using logical fallacies or misinterpreting someone is not scummy. It's just what it says on the tin, it's a fallacy.
13. Is it discrediting someone to point out that a scum slip wasn't a scum slip and that I've been, in the past accused of making scum slips when I was town and this is another example of that? Is it discrediting someone to say that if something is close to a 1:1 ratio of town to scum it doesn't make sense why you're scum reading me? Is it discrediting someone to ask why claiming out the gate is scummy, have another player come in and then supplement why it wasn't scummy get the player that thought it was scummy to agree and then watch as other players carry the water of an argument that the originator retracted as *being* scummy with no comment or acknowledgement that they did so? Is it scummy to laugh at someone for saying "That sure is convenient that you have that role to explain away that post you got called out on" when it's my actual role?
I don't think so!

14. This is normal, you're confusing me being annoying which you've already said you were tired with, with an alignment. I post a lot. When pressured *I respond a lot* and * i omgus a lot* and I navel gaze a lot. This is unusual, but it's not unusual *for me* As are contentless posts mixed with not so contentless posts. I get called out for saying nothing all the time. This isn't a secret.

15. yeah, I would pretty much never read those rules and come up with a fake claim. It's just my actual claim. Multiple players know I suck at fake claiming. Uh I think. If you'd like I could actually point out where I made a post about wanting to be a tree stump really badly I think almost 3-4 years ago. It's that far back. I really liked the idea of being untouchable and being free just to hunt the whole game without the responsibility of voting wrong. Please note that when pressured this is what I devolve into, so you can see the appeal for me.
But as people have mentioned, this doesn't matter. I asked for the role before I knew what I would role. The point is that my intent behind that post was a childish "heh, I can totally harass you if you fuck up and misread me Pooky" and that became I knew his alignment. Even though the perspective itself, is just making the assumption that he's town and doesn't make sense from the perspective of me being scum because, obviously I have no plans to harass Pooky for saying they suck if I were scum. The whole thing just kind of falls apart when viewed from 4 or 5 different angles. There are more incorrect angles than correct ones, and Pooky either chose the incorrect one because they're scum or because they thought what worked for enchant would work for someone who is very, very different from enchant.
16. The strawman argument does not work, because Titus does not and has not pretty much ever listened to me before. The argument that they would listen to me, is, in the context of our previous play history *laughable* They ignored me both times I said math blade was scum *and* ignored me once when I said Math blade was scum while I had a cop guilty on them and could throw perfectly accurate cases about them, I couldn't claim the cop guilty but my arguments that were correct, weren't persuasive to them. The bonuses they're talking about aren't bonuses. Their argument that they can read off my interactions with others and make accurate associations doesn't pan out because Titus and I have been over that their method doesn't seem to pass muster from random chance (I'm not saying, I'm better, I'm not I'm just saying Titus isn't an especially accurate scum hunter) It just doesn't appeal to me. And from my perspective it's a terrible call not only for those reasons but also because I'm town and they way they initially worded it was that even if I *was town* it was better that I'm a tree stump than not, while thinking I was scum. I'm going to object to that.
17. 247. Is an obvious joke and has nothing to do with your alignment. You can see why I think you're straight forward or faking being straight forward. Usually you're just town.
18. Reasoning is bad regardless of whether someone is scum or not. You can be perfectly wrong about someone's motivations and kill scum, and perfectly right about someone while bussing. Reasoning is separate. Pooky did point out that I was caught for the wrong reasons which is jumping off of you. But the thing is, there was in your initial post a glaring omission that pointed to you not seeming to know that people were JOATs, which was deeply confusing, because the alternative was that your argument was that it was convenient for me to claim a role as an excuse instead of other plays that make much more sense in context for scum to do. It's more lies to juggle when the truth will do. It's a weird assumption to make.
19. Yes, I don't think that me claiming my second role there showed any anti-town motivation and was not some get out of jail free card, at best it's deeply confusing, but you just interpreted it as scummy. Which I still don't get.

If an apple is by an apple tree, you don't say that sure is convenient, you say, "that makes sense"

Anyway. Done. You promised Bell.

Bye.

This post would be a lot more readable if you used the quote feature. (You could just add in your numbers at the appropriate place if you don't want to quote split.) As it is currently written, I'm inclined to (and am) just skip over it.

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

Why are you buying LTO so much for town, and what is so airtight about their case on Bell?

I had the same question. That's a interesting choice of words from Harmony.

*shrug* my third ability is a novice 1 shot alibi.
I investigate a player and find out every player that they didn't visit.
This gets more powerful with time.

My bus driver role also has a neighbor component. So I'm kind of like a weird double jail keeper that can talk to that player at night.
I was considering spite locking Pooky into it and then seeing if they could post 1000 pages and convince me they weren't scum over a night phase. But, really I was just going to carefully consider who I wanted to talk with over that time. since, I'm not actually vindictive, I just pretend I will be.

Bus driver? Was that an error or did you mean to write that?

I'm only claiming that part because I'm about to be killed.

I think you were at most seven votes out of nine. That's not particularly close to being killed.

804 bothers me. But they can't lack self-awareness that they would just post the same as scum every time they're scum right.

I'm not sure I'm seeing it. How does it bother you?

804 bothers me. But they can't lack self-awareness that they would just post the same as scum every time they're scum right.

and this is another scummy Bell post

I don't see how 804 isn't a towny post with genuine feeling

-TL

I'm not seeing this either. Genuine feeling, sure, I can buy this, but what makes it distinctly towny? (Your answer shouldn't be "genuine feeling" for I think scum could quite easily make a "genuine post" like that one.)

What about that post points to their alignment being town?

the feelings conveyed by that post are from a town mindset and are real

that is towny, not NAI and definitely not scummy

-TL

I'm still not convinced. What prevents it from being not alignment indicative?

let's say LTO's case proves that Bell is acting anti-town regardless of alignment

therefore, Bell is scum even if Bell is town

-TL

...

that being said, the only non-mech way I'll not SR Bell is for Bell to provide a lead rist

not a read list, a lead rist

LTO's fourth point in the case is very concerning and based on that case alone I don't think Bell has a town mindset

pedit: flips are mech

ppedit: again, flips are mech

but if you're anti-town regardless of alignment a flip won't be worth much

-TL

What exactly is a lead rist?

ot a read list, a lead rist

tell me more about this lead rist

a lead rist in this context is when you order every alive player (other than you) from most town to most scum

653 is an example of a lead rist

-TL

Is this an official term? Why are you specifically interested in the ordering?

Comrades, I have reviewed the contrasting literature of Lady Terminally Online and Bell. I must first say that many of Lady's assumptions to be superfluous to the overall argument. A work of Newton need not recite the axioms of Euclid. Despite this, Bell feels the need to rebut the point about scum win-conditions, despite missing the parenthetical clarification and it being irrelevant.

Yes, I noticed this too. I found it very weird from both of them (but more so from Bell since TerminallyOffline is newer whereas Bell should know that the assumptions weren't very relevant).

[Ircher]

VOTE: Harmony

[Ircher]

Is it because all RH head has done so far is making comments about roles and subtly defending Drew?

It's between RH9's non-presence in the game and some of the controversial takes TemporalLich has made this game.

[Ircher]

This probably won’t go anywhere but, motions. Ircher, why didn’t you vote Dunnstral when you made a case against them and instead made a naked vote on harmony? This resulted in a slow walk reveal when you’re obviously capable of providing your reasoning and your response to HST is worded/approached differently, more referential than your more direct reasoning elsewhere.

I think you believe I have a much stronger read on Dunnstral than I actually do. There's one post that I have read from Dunnstral so far that I have a take on, and I'm inherently going to be biased against it (for obvious reasons). The meta comment is less a case and more an observation.

Regarding vote timing: I was already up late last night reading this game; thus, figuring out who to switch my vote to (and whether I wanted to switch votes) was not a high priority.

[Ircher]

#10:

It's kind of weird you're posting thoughts from page 1 here.

#13: Forth coming. cool. ~0.3 town points.
#20: This earned and then resulted in me retracting a town point. I was going to say the same thing but I was driving home at this moment, so I couldn't say shit. I felt bad.

Did you retract the point because you realized this was not alignment indicative or was there another reason?

39# Hmm. Dunno. Might be a thing they do I've never noticed or might be purposeful.

Huh?

59# I fully explained my role later, I do think in general being quiet about the neighborizing part of my ability is the right thing to do as town, It's the kind of thing that players that I think are better than me would do. They'd probably not have been forthright about the claim at first, but we have disagreements about what it means to be town.

I'm going to make a note of this in case it proves useful later. (It's less a note on Bell's commentary and more so a note on the post Bell is referencing here.) It is interesting that Pooky references a bus driver in 60, and Bell later goes on to claim a "bus driver" role much later.

68# Hmm. Ircher changed positions on this later. From wait and see, to I think it has merit. I'd like to hear them explain what changed. I think it's fairly easy to explain away.

I wouldn't call it a position change. I was more discussing TemporalLich's previous post likening it to a miller claim. It was less a reveal of my own stance and more an attempt to get better insight into Harmony's stance. 222 is just my interpretation of Harmony's original post on the matter. I do think with the subsequent role claims, I've given more weight to this due to this claim due to the way the claim progressed.

#120: Drew mentioning the obvious and then speculating that maybe they can talk to the mod about it. But Drew's played a lot of mafia, they know that won't fly so why are they even mentioning it or think that they would entertain it. It's stalling I guess, but it's kind of lazy stalling that I'm not sure they'd have the gall to do as scum. It annoys me though. But that, I think, is just Drew. They will likely only respond if they respond at all to the end of this post.

This feels overanalyzed. It's an obvious joke post, and trying to derive alignment from it is madness.

Spoiler: Long Post

#125: Joyboy votes LTO, naked vote. there's a reason for it, but search me what the reason is or how they're hoping to come off.
#126: Pooky does the associative thing it's very normal Pooky. It's pretty typical for them to scum bin one player and keep saying they're scum and then poke around and make associative with other players accusing their bin target and someone else of being scum together or saying so and so can't be partners with the bin. I never really got what Pooky gets from it, but they do it as either alignment I don't remember them slam dunking with it, but it's an ingrained habit.
#127: I find this post by Ircher to be quite honest and helpful. 0.0002 town points. Not sure if they should have also done more there but whatever.
128#: This is my preference for how to word a question to someone I'm curious about. But it shouldn't mean a town point just because it hits what I like.
#129: Brocoli reading from the town manual. Walk the walk or simply talking the talk? Bleh I cringe just writing that, but it gets my thought across.
#130: Pooky explained this to me so I feel like I'm just religitating an old point about negativity, I think they explained that they'd rather die than behave toward certain people in certain ways, so this is just buddy not-AI pooky. They will glump onto you and make you a Pooky Puppet, but there's kind of a weird ethos attached to the manipulation which makes it murky. Or at least, I genuinely don't think I could or should go after them for buddying people.
131#: Consistent with a later posts/reads. From titus, they voted Joyboy here. Nothing really concrete, I think their argument is on the tin, that they think they're being anti-town or unhelpful, but they don't explicitly say that and use unwholesome as code instead. Indirect, don't think it means much.
#132: Maid entrance. Interesting choice of entrance lines since the usual is would you like food, a drink or me? Ufu. just spliced out. I guess I hate it because power dynamics. Let it not be said I don't ruin everything.
#133: LTO: This is a really good post and I could've written it. 1 town point. Maybe 2.
#134: Pooky cult post sucks more than I thought, but it might just have been bad timing on Pooky town's part. I know Pooky cares what LTO is doing. But they're going through the Pooky motions. Can't tell.
#137: maid votes Pooky. Makes sense to me. Not sure if they're paying attention to LTO, using LTO as cover for what they think seems like a decent place to start as scum on town Pooky, or if they agreed or say something else that Pooky did or were just responding to Pooky's request for Coffee. I find 1 or 2 to be more likely. It's maria and not Beeboy and Maria's a player that I think does well from my limited experience with them.
#141: This interaction feels kind of awkward but I think all I'll accomplish by saying it is slightly annoying Joyboy while getting no closer to their alignment. Also it's kind of clear they've played with a lot of us, and they outright hinted they've played with me before. so maybe this isn't awkward. It's actually, kind of hard to tell.
#145: Ircher helpdesk. NAI. Appreciate it though.
#147: FB's half joke/accusation of Maria is fine here. It might be just a misinterpretation of a theme, but there's really no harm in poking at Maria this way. Still kind of straightforewardish town play (sorry FB).
#148: Doctor Drew's tone is different than everyone's above. about this coffee and maid thing. Once again, don't know if it means anything. Maybe nerves, maybe clumsy, we all come up with things, some things that we come up with don't fit the shape of the social setting. Yeah. NAI, maybe think about it later.

Done for now.

I'm actually not sure if Bell would have the WIM to do this detailed of a PBPA as scum. I think I'm feeling better about the slot at this point, but I'm not 100% convinced yet.

Also tree stump doesn't nor shouldn't last for the whole game. Only one day phase

I'm guessing you are basing off the advertised setup. I disagree that this is a reason for the treestump to be invalid; generally, the important part is when you can activate the ability not how long it lasts. This does however raise a slightly different point that either:

1. Bell isn't claiming properly (because a treestump that activates on death on any day/night doesn't match the way JOAT's work)
   
2. or the moderator gave out some non-JOAT powers.

I think option b is plausible just not what I was originally expecting setup-wise.

tbh wondering if its worth for me claim my modifiers or not due to a could reasons

if you want.
tho i'd recommend waiting until you're run up to e-1.
claiming too early will benefit scum.
~rh

ehh ill claim cause why not i suppose. I don't have anything exactly game changing

2 abilities

1-shot even night Soul-binding curse
p much i try to predict the nk, and pair them with someone of my choosing. So if one dies the other dies

1-shot odd night snoopy coworker

I learn all abilties of said person and know if theyve been used or not

If

you are true claiming, you would necessarily have to be town because as scum, the moderator might as well give you an extra kill instead. Well actually, I guess Traitor is also a possibility but not one I'm putting high stock into right now.

Bell - EASILY COULD BE A FELLOW PIRATE. I TOLD YA WAITING WOULD MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dunnstral - undetermined (I can't read the player LOL)
Maid Cafe (hydra of MariaR and Beeboy) - CREWMATE
HolySpiritTurtle - CREWMATE
Laplacian - CREWMATE
Hu Tao - FIGHT
Doctor Drew - CREWMATE
PookyTheMagicalBear - CREWMATE
Firebringer - CREWMATE
Sakura Hana - undetermined
LadyTerminallyOffline - FIGHT! NOTHING THEY DO WILL FOOL ME! (I think the best way for a player who is somewhat decent to fool other players on a site they've never played on before is over the top solving energy. If you put a lot of energy into appearing like you're solving but push villagers, people who never played with you will think you're a villager. This is mafia 101)
Relativistic Harmony (hydra of TemporalLich and RH9) - FIGHT (TL at this point might as well say he's voting me based on Policy. My main concern is they are going to hang onto this all game without actually caring about anything else, while looking like they care about things. I won't be able to read it because TL plays like a robot who only knows how to hunt using knowledge gained on wiki. RH will always be unremarkable and not valuable to me)
light_ganski - FELLOW PIRATE
lemon.tangerine - CREWMATE (best to practice wait and see since they claimed for ???)
Titus - CREWMATE
Ircher - CREWMATE

I strongly disagree with the Offline read but the rest look fine.

if i havent sorted you yet and you think bell is town i am ready to talk about it

CAN BELL MAKE 160+ POSTS AS WOLF?

It's probably not too hard for Day 1 Bell. Bell isn't like Creature.

reads on ppl you havent talked abt is the simple answer

Like WHO?

Why do the specifics need to be spelled out here? Surely with some effort, you could figure out who you haven't talked about yet.

Iso Drew and tell me they deserve to live that doesn't involve you being masons with them.

good opening in 83

221 is scummy but Drew has towny vibes regardless of alignment so not willing to scumread Drew for that

254 is a towny post

and 794 has town mindset behind it

oh and 853 is a medium risk play



Doctor Drew acts towny regardless of alignment so I kind of have to townread Doctor Drew because I have no mech or deepwolfiness to go off of.

pedit: welp nevermind, that's an associative

frick

-TL

For the sake of counterargument:


83 is perhaps a "good" opening but not really alignment indicative.

221 I agree is ever so slightly scummy for dereliction of vote ownership; however, I'm not sure why you are just handwaving over this aspect on vibes.

254 is a helpful post. That's not the same as a town post; scum can make helpful advice posts too.

I don't really see the "risk" in 853. If Drew is engaging, then he likely believes he can rebut any cases thrown his way as a result of that post. I don't disagree it is slightly more townie to engage, but again, I don't see the "risk" aspect to it.

Also, "acting" town isn't the same as being town.

[Ircher]

Relativistic Harmony (7): Ircher, Dunnstral, Maid Cafe, Joyboy, Doctor Drew, Titus, LadyTerminallyOffline
Maid Cafe (3): lemon.tangerine, PookyTheMagicalBear, Doctor Drew

drew voting two people

I will vote everyone all at once if I have to

Do you disagree with the wagon? Why?

[Ircher]

Relativistic Harmony (7): Ircher, Dunnstral, Maid Cafe, Joyboy, Doctor Drew, Titus, LadyTerminallyOffline
Maid Cafe (3): lemon.tangerine, PookyTheMagicalBear, Doctor Drew

drew voting two people

I will vote everyone all at once if I have to

Do you disagree with the wagon? Why?

Wait that was a joke. Never mind.

[Ircher]

Relativistic Harmony (7): Ircher, Dunnstral, Maid Cafe, Joyboy, Doctor Drew, Titus, LadyTerminallyOffline

I almost want to do the "lets play the game of finding the buss on the wagon.
But I am holding onto hope that I am right that Harmony is still town.

Is it just a forlorn hope, or do you have a good reason to suspect they are town?

[Ircher]

Rh, you can still fullclaim

I'd want RH to post before fullclaiming ideally

or I'd fullclaim when I'm in the tent as a last ditch effort

-TL

Why are you waiting for RH?

[Ircher]

Rh, you can still fullclaim

I'd want RH to post before fullclaiming ideally

or I'd fullclaim when I'm in the tent as a last ditch effort

-TL

Why are you waiting for RH?

RH was frustrated at my posts

-TL

So you think they would be frustrated at you claiming at E-1 (especially considering the mod thought you were hammered)? I don't think I buy that.

[Ircher]

tbh wondering if its worth for me claim my modifiers or not due to a could reasons

if you want.
tho i'd recommend waiting until you're run up to e-1.
claiming too early will benefit scum.
~rh

ehh ill claim cause why not i suppose. I don't have anything exactly game changing

2 abilities

1-shot even night Soul-binding curse
p much i try to predict the nk, and pair them with someone of my choosing. So if one dies the other dies

1-shot odd night snoopy coworker

I learn all abilties of said person and know if theyve been used or not

This first ability does not seem like something mafia would have, assuming it is true and not a fake claim based on what they submitted but did not get. So this could be a good choice for a role cop or similar role.

Umm this reads like a double nk and rolecop just saying. However, it can have some synergy too so meh. I punted on that.

Yeah but I don't think mafia would have the double nk. The ability is just an extra kill if they are mafia as they don't need to do any guesswork.

....with the amount of protection and revive here...

I agree with Dunnstral's logic here. If we are giving mafia na extra kill, we might as well straight up do so rather than the roundabout of guessing the night kill target. I had came to the same conclusion earlier.

[Ircher]

i don't know why u guys bother with RH claim here. It isn't like theres a claim that will magically make u guys townread the slot lol

taking this as intent to hammer so

my abilities would be this:

protect someone from non-town abilities (like rolestop but town players ignore that rolestop)
revive a dead player as a treestump (the dead can post?!)
check if a player is a chosen role or not, regenerates if failed (the archetypal claim verifier)

-TL

The first ability is unclear. Can you try rewording it for clarity?

[Ircher]

Or giving some examples of how it works?

[Ircher]

I see. That does seem kind of strong. Now the question is whether I want dismantle your wagon or not. I think I'm still leaning towards not dismantling it.

[Ircher]

What does believing it have to do with them being town Dunnyboi

It does not make sense for mafia to have that ability I feel, or the second one kind of. So I sort of have reason to believe they are telling the truth, plus their aiblities seem rather strong (their third ability is what I was just talking about for checking lemon too)

If i was the one designing this game I would have decided the role pms
then rnged the alignments

But it probably wasn't done that way, so I will concede u have a point

The mod was explicit about this. Alignments were randed first, and then the mod narrowed/tweaked uPick submissions.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Ircher]

Hu Tao's initial catchup on Day 1 was bad.

[Ircher]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

For instance, her list here had way too many people that she had zero read on.

[Ircher]

Two things.

Sorry at work.

1. Favorite vegetable is tomatoes. I received a message addressed to Hu Tao.
2. I have a bomb strapped to me, I die at the end of the day. I get three guesses on who planted the bomb on my chest, it explodes at the end of the game day.

#2 is quite interesting.

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

For instance, her list here had way too many people that she had zero read on.

If I were scum, what's stopping me from making up reads for people I didn't have reads for?

Making up reads still takes some effort. I don't find this a very convincing counterargument.

I already submitted a pooky guess in my note PT.
But I did it before N1 resolved haven’t looked if mod responded.

But yeah feel free to control the rest, I don’t care.

You probably won't believe me, but I didn't do any night action. So it wasn't me

Did you do nothing because you had nothing you could do, or did you do nothing purposefully?

Good morning comrades! I hope that we are all well rested and ready to resume our glorious revolution! Through a combination of meditation, interrogation, and rooting through garbage for suspicious evidence, I believe I have identified several comrades who are, surprisingly, trustworthy

Weird choice to post this then not actually, you know, just come out and say them in the same post. But you do you.


I have to say the last bits of yesterday were thrilling, and I see why folks play this game more often than once a decade.

Going to wait for a little longer to see if there's claims of a redirector or bus driver

At least one person got fucked up with

Good to know, which means we'll want to take these results cautiously until we know all the shifts that happened.

Last night I used a triple parity cop. Hu Tao, Doctor Drew, and lemon.tangerine all have the same win condition. Which means either I nailed scum team or more likely, they're all town. If any of those 3 were bus drove, hopefully we can backtrace it and figure out who was actually copped

Even with redirection, that seems ridiculously strong.

Also, someone also gave me a one-shot item. Thank you anonymous comrade for redistributing your abilities to the masses according to their needs!

Wait so there is no redirection? I'm so confused

No one claimed to redirect to/from Laplace. Why are you confused?

hu tao feels increasingly desperate as the walls close in around her.

I agree.

We are not sure if this is a redirect or a bus driver, so let's not jump to conclusions. It's equally possible that the bomb was targeted at Bell directly, and that it was a redirect NOT a bus drive.

I'd still find that pretty incriminating for Hu Tao. Pooky's argument makes a lot of sense.

[Ircher]

Because we have to sort out whether Bell is a lightning rod or whether Hu was bus drove. If Bell is a lightning rod, then lap's result (if town) is worthless.

Laplacian claimed receipt of an invention, so Bell was clearly not a universal lightning rod.

[Ircher]

The simplest thing is just that lemon is scum and no bus driver exists, so maybe we should table that discussion unless lemon flips town...

The simplest thing is just that lemon is scum and no bus driver exists, so maybe we should table that discussion unless lemon flips town...

But Lap parity cop'd those 3. If all are scum, then lemon must have both done the NK and used the bomb, i dont remember if multitasking is on by default, i'll have to re-read the rules/setup info for that.

I agree with Titus here, but yeah, the parity cop doesn't add up either. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that they are both scum lying.

[Ircher]

I think the amount of shenanigans around me plus no one is claiming responsibility means either scum targeted me or FB did. They might’ve body guarded somebody else and caught the mafia shot.

This game is deeply Bell Centric.
Even when the game tried not to be by seemingly everyone targeting Hu Tao.

No one else died, so it seems likely Fire was killed directly (or mafia was redirected onto Fire). If it was a successful bodyguard, I'd expect a second death.

[Ircher]

Still is weird coz lemon didnt target Hu Tao originally, but also got sent to Bell.

This is where I get occam's razor and Lemon is lying. If Lemon is telling the truth, we get a whole lot more from flipping them and confirming that rather than debating unless someone else specifically says that their action got redirected too. Having a redirector redirect every single good action on a night seems wholly broken for scum as well in a game where we have limited options.

Honestly, two redirectors isn't

too

far out of the realm of possibility. Mod said abilities aren't necessarily unique. I find it less likely the redirection is specific to the type or beneficialness of an ability.

[Ircher]

Like I don’t think Lap lies triple parity cop role here. It’s a hella risky fakeclaim with no reward.

This is a good point, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility altogether given how chaotic this game seems to be.

[Ircher]

Well, Hu Tao > Bell reflection, I mean.

Hmm well that isnt a bus driver, maybe that resolves differently?
I'm still confused why i bypass bus driver but not redirector.

I do believe the backup priority list in NAR has redirection and bus driving on different tiers, so that kind of makes sense.

[Ircher]

Btw, did anyone confirm what action resolution the moderator is using this game?

[Ircher]

Every single action last night besides fractional ones went to Bell.

You claimed you watched Bell, right? If your action goes after mine you should see everyone who used a N1 action then.

YW

You do realize there's contradictory evidence to this claim, don't you?

[Ircher]

Slow down. Some people haven’t even posted yet.

I agree we shouldn't quick fade here.

[Ircher]

in my opinion maid's role as claimed is massively scum favoring

redirecting every action to bell pretty much gurantees the scum nightkill will go through

furthermore it ruins any investigative powers used on the first night

given that most powerful town power roles will try to fire early to get info when its early and the joat nature of this setup meaning any used roles are wasted, this feels more like a scum power than a town one. I struggle to see what the point of this role is from a town POV like how does it supposed to help us.

lastly the only redirected roles to bell were laplacian, sakura, titus and lemon tangerine.

if all of these players are town - it would mean not a single scum used their night actions last night. an explanation for this could be because the scum knew a mass redirector was going off so they decided to save their night actions for later - which necesitates that Maid Cafe is on the scum team.

Lastly I see no plausible reason a town aligned player would use such a role because "lol its fun"

Part of our role confirmation process was to affirm that we would play to our own win condition.

I dont have any idea why Maria would decide to voluntarily out that she did this except maybe to deflect away from Hu Tao but she's not even doing that so shrug who knows maybe she wants to get killed today for some reason.

I agree with most of this except the have fun part. I would do the same as either alignment for the fun factor if I had such an ability.

[Ircher]

I'd like Pooky and Ircher to fill in my blanks here. It doesn't even need to be a SPECIFIC role claim, just if they acted or not and who their initial target was.

I am confirming Laplacian's receipt of an invention.

[Ircher]

I can claim the specific invention if need be and have Laplace confirm if there is any doubt.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Maid Cafe

[Ircher]

No need. Just need to know if your intentions have a strong willed modifier or otherwise state they are immune to redirection.

I double-checked my role pm; it doesn't look like it. It is just an unmodified invention ability.

Also I don't understand the maid Cafe vote. A touch premature given we don't have anywhere near the full picture yet.

It's perhaps premature; I agree we don't have the full picture. However, it seems incompatible with my action, and I doubt invention resolves before redirection, so the simplest explanation for me is Maid is lying.

[Ircher]

visit target same thing I assume you visit with a lighting rod but I'll clarify incase it's relevant.

pedit: because the modifer isn't relevant to the issue it has no need to be claimed?

No, it

is

relevant because we have a conflict.

[Ircher]

Actually let me come back with a clear head because rn I'm hard tunneling out of pure annoyance that my hydra partner isn't here. But if you have reasons to think any of RH/DD/Lemon/Lap are town LMK.

YA, SANJI DOES THAT A LOT. WE STILL LOVE HIM THO!

Yeah but he's the one that wanted to play the game not me. Also I thought he only flaked as a wolf tbh

I made a post about this in another game but beeboy flakes in every single game he is town in. Actually let me link it here because it was a pretty good post.

Subject: Toriel's Patience (end)

Alright I didn't see that game, that's fair. But look at the rest of Beeboy's game history:

Gnosia -

Town

- Replaces out
TFT uPick -

Mafia

- Eliminated day 1
Cards of Destiny (Hayasaka account) -

Town

- Replaces out
Epilogue -

Mafia

- Dance game and partner leaves at end of game
Betrayal Mafia -

Town

- Replaces out
Undertale C Open -

Mafia

- Makes it to the end of the game and wins

There is 1 mafia game pointed out before this where they replace out plus the linked game above where Beeboy is town and replaces out, meaning Beeboy has never actually finished a game as town on this site in the past ~4 years. Yes it really is that easy to read Beeboy.

If it is really that predictable, doesn't that fall into trust tell territory?

[Ircher]

Not sure I see the light_ganski votes. Do we expect gunsmiths to actually be rather effective in this setup? In a more conventional setup, it could make sense to call out the guilty, but here, I think the odds are relatively high that you get false positives, so I don't hold it against Light for not necessarily claiming it earlier.

[Ircher]

VOTE: light
I guess i could do Hu Tao as well, dont really have a personal preference atm.

Why am I scum

Why the focus on why you're scum?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Ircher]

Yes, it was a question. It ended in a quedtion mark after all.
I doubt the answer will change my mind, so I'm preemptively voting. If I'm wrong, I can change my vote again later.

[Ircher]

Okay then. I was going to save this. But I don't care anymore

Day cop: HST

Or maybe I was supposed to pm that

LAM! IST!

[Ircher]

Is there some reason nobody wants to go after Dunn?

Dunn's hard to case in general. I think his takes have been okay so far. Not great but good enough to prioritize looking elsewhere for now.

[Ircher]

I can't wait to be confirmed town so I can tunnel Hu Tao even harder.

???

[Ircher]

VOTE: Hu

This might be a vote on scum but it’s a bad vote.

The reasoning may be off, but I don't think it's a bad vote necessarily.

[Ircher]

I don’t really engage with moral arguments. So, it’s neither good nor bad and it’s simply based on what someone values in a game.

In this case I was just saying the reasoning was incorrect.

I don’t see it anywhere, did the player that got gunsmith’d give a more detailed explanation of themselves and their role?
I think they should reveal which role(s)held the gun and they can keep the other two abilities to the themselves if they want.

That was HolySpirit, wasn't it? I don't think HolySpirit claimed.

[Ircher]

I agree though; they should now that Hu Tap is also claiming a guilty on the slot.

[Ircher]

Why not?

[Ircher]

Maybe they're trying the DEFCON strategy again.

[Ircher]

I am so glad that Hu Tao claimed guilty on me. Because it only proves that I am right.

I’ve had my ability reflector on since around the time when I read that light got a gun result on me. So Hu Tao actually got her own alignment as a result when she day copped me. I still have my reflect on, so if you have a day or night ability to use that’s kinda useless, you can actually use it on me and test it out. It lasts through the night. Or you can just lim me, and I’ll be fine with that too. The only regret would be that I wouldn’t be on the Hu Tao lim when it inevitably happens next day.

If it wasn’t obvious yet, I’m in a hood with Sakura. I’ve already claimed my reflector ability to her, and we were setting up so I can try to draw a nightkill for the night (Sakura “accidentally” posts the post about a cop shot in the game thread, I claim to be that cop, voila).

Speaking of cop shot though, I do have a cop shot. It has annoincing modifier, along with an ability to send a message to my target, so as I said, it’s very provable. Except my cop shot is a paranoia cop shot, so I always get guilty lol. What I actually wanted was a public paranoia cop to fuck with people, but fery said lolno and changed it to announcing.

I could test this, but it's kind of risky if you're lying here.

[Ircher]

tbh we can just kill maid and let this self resolve

Why do you expect this to self-resolve?

[Ircher]

One of my abilities is both a day ability and has a public effect.

[Ircher]

I can’t see a single good reason to test that.

I should check with the mod whether it is affected by redirection/reflection (I imagine it is), but I'd only think it's worth testing on my end if we think the probability is pretty high that HolySpirit isn't lying.

[Ircher]

Ircher if you got shot or targeted by wolves, the village is happy.
You might as well play all your cards.

? What do you mean by this?

[Ircher]

Ircher if you got shot or targeted by wolves, the village is happy.
You might as well play all your cards.

? What do you mean by this?

Exactly what it says. Making you a target for wolf actions is good cuz it forces wolf actions away from other players that wolves might feel like they need to remove/interact with right away.

I think full claiming would likely have the opposite effect. I'll think about it.

[Ircher]

Also our lead right now is incredible and it’s only going to continue to snowball out of control very quickly. Claiming accelerates leads, so do that.

Fine, whatever. It's a vote immunity ability. I can instantly derail a wagon and prevent people from voting a player out for the rest of the day. No, I can't self-target. No, it doesn't work in Lim Lo. Yes, it can be affected by roleblocks and redirection. No, I can't use it right before deadline; I have to activate it 48 hours in advance.

[Ircher]

I forgot I can't fake claim on this site without people thinking I'm scum

Why would you expect people not to think you are scum for fake claiming?

[Ircher]

I'll use it in an about an hour if I don't see any objections when I'm back.

[Ircher]

Why are you using your ability?

[Ircher]

Is anyone even voting you?

[Ircher]

Why are you using your ability?

Because I am confirmed town, so my testing of the reflect is 100% guaranteed not to be false or trickery?

The role itself is useless at this point.

I already said my ability is public so this seems redundant but okay.

[Ircher]

What's even happening

You're daycopping Dunn. Now.

+1

[Ircher]

Now, I'm really confused about LadyTerminally's ability, but I guess it doesn't matter.

[Ircher]

Hu Tao, results please.

[Ircher]

Well, so it did. We don't need the votes after all, and the reflector is confirmed a real thing.

Except of course in a world where the team is Spirit Turtle, Sakura, and Ircher exactly. But that's silly.


Hmm.

PETITION: MariaR

Wouldn't that still be unlikely considering how OP a self-targetable vote immunization ability would be for scum?

[Ircher]

I'd give Hu Tao more like 15 minutes. It really feels like they're stalling.

[Ircher]

3708 was me using a novice publishing beholder on Laplacian. No result means they didn't use an investigative ability, or did and was blocked somehow.

Not very exciting. I was hoping Ircher had sent an investigative role, I suspected Titus was a weak hider or similar as they mentioned they could act through redirects and that targeting certain people was risky so didn't think my role would work targeting them. My other options were waiting for lemon_ganski or bell to use their claimed abilities.

Speaking of which. Bell, you can clear somebody with your role now when we eliminate light_ganski.

I did not send an investigative yesterday. Laplacian didn't claim to use the invention.

[Ircher]

so that's redirection or roleblock+murder

How would it be roleblock and murder?

I'm down to kill Light.

[Ircher]

Yeah lights confo scum and we are just try Harding for the last one today before they get to shoot me.

Do you want a mass claim today?

I'm interested in what lemon_ganski and Laplacian did last night

I used a reloader on Joyboy, which would have recharged any ability he used last night. He said he was going to self doc before Sakura spoke up, so I was hoping he'd use that and then get another night to stay alive

It's unfortunate that your action isn't confirmable. How do we know you aren't fake claiming here?

[Ircher]

2 scum died Pooky the odds of scum targeting you is a serious math fail.

scum have to shoot all the people they can't lim because thats the only way for them to win the game

Except you are limmable this game... Logic does not check out.

[Ircher]

dude i wanted to get hit by the factional nightkill so i could take my killer with me

i didnt think a town player would use an investigate on me after I was obviously town

Are you no longer scum reading Bell? When did that change?

[Ircher]

2 scum died Pooky the odds of scum targeting you is a serious math fail.

There were multiple people advocating for limming you after light at the end of day 2.
scum have to shoot all the people they can't lim because thats the only way for them to win the game

Except you are limmable this game... Logic does not check out.

I've seen no indication that I am limmable this game

[Ircher]

2 scum died Pooky the odds of scum targeting you is a serious math fail.

There were multiple people advocating for limming you after light at the end of day 2.
scum have to shoot all the people they can't lim because thats the only way for them to win the game

Except you are limmable this game... Logic does not check out.

I've seen no indication that I am limmable this game

There were multiple people advocating for limming you after Light at the end of Day 2.

Not sure why the forum ate my text in the previous post...

[Ircher]

I strongly believe that the wolf team is rh hu tao light pooky

Actually it might have just been Joyboy being loud.

[Ircher]

I finally was gonna do something last night, but some anti-Union hater stopped me......why can everyone else have all the fun??

'Sup. Roleblock was me using Ircher's gift from earlier

Shouldn't you have waited until next night given mafia were incentivized to no kill this time?

[Ircher]

I guess Drew's post does confirm that you in fact used your invention this night, so that's good.

[Ircher]

I guess Drew's post does confirm that you in fact used your invention this night, so that's good.

What is weird though(and maybe it is part of NAR, I dunno), but technically it was a day action that I activate it at night.....I guess that means it can be fucked with at night? (ie, can get role blocked)

If the activation is at night, but the effect is during the day, it makes sense it can be roleblocked at night. That doesn't seem weird at all.

[Ircher]

Proposed massclaim order:

Doctor Drew
Laplacian
MariaR
ircher
Lemon
Pooky
Dunn
Cabd

I'm on board with this, or at the very least, doing the mass claim first. Maybe not 100% on killing Drew yet.

Drew, would you like to start?

[Ircher]

Proposed massclaim order:

Doctor Drew
Laplacian
MariaR
ircher
Lemon
Pooky
Dunn
Cabd

I'm on board with this, or at the very least, doing the mass claim first. Maybe not 100% on killing Drew yet.

Drew, would you like to start?

I feel like maybe everyone should check in?

Isn't Lemon the only one who hasn't checked in? I don't see why we should delay the process.

[Ircher]

Why haven't you tried to use the Forensic Investigator role yet?

[Ircher]

Why did you want to use it on Joyboy specifically? Hadn't we already established Joyboy was cleared?

[Ircher]

You could've used it on Firebringer, but I guess that tracks. I thought the role did something different.

[Ircher]

Just in case. I see those horns in your avatar's shadow.

Time to claim.

[Ircher]

Pretty sure not considering Fire didn't kill anyone in return.

1-Shot Elite Bodyguard - If your chosen target to bodyguard is also targeted for death that night, you will protect them by dying in their place and killing their assailant.

[Ircher]

No need on my end my roles are used up.

It will help us all if you are explicit about how your roles work. It was unclear how your ability Night 1 works, and I don't know what you used the last two nights.

[Ircher]

Just in case. I see those horns in your avatar's shadow.

Time to claim.

Already said everything in various posts, but for the sake of convenience:

-3x parity cop
-announcing reloader
-novice bus driver

First 2 abilities were useless, bus is unused

Can you EBWOP this with your targets (including your night 3 action)?

[Ircher]

I had two abilities:

A 1-shot roleblock invention which I sent to Laplacian night 1.
A 1-shot vote immunizer ability which I used on HolySpiritTurtle day 2. (It got reflected back to me.)

Now it is Lemon's turn to claim.

[Ircher]

Proposed massclaim order:

Doctor Drew
Laplacian
MariaR
ircher
Lemon
Pooky
Dunn
Cabd

Pooky can't post this phase so do we skip to Dunn? Also, where is your name on the claim list?

[Ircher]

i only have 2

1-shot Bomb vest

1-shot Ability check


I lied about soulbinding to scare wolves

When did you use the ability check, and what was your specific result? Also, please remind me who your original target for the bomb vest was supposed to be.

[Ircher]

Who did you target with the neighborizer?

[Ircher]

i only have 2

1-shot Bomb vest

1-shot Ability check


I lied about soulbinding to scare wolves

When did you use the ability check, and what was your specific result? Also, please remind me who your original target for the bomb vest was supposed to be.

my orignal target was meant to be light

i used the check n2

This didn't answer the specific result you got from the ability check.

[Ircher]

Essentially, this means I want everyone to name the three players they want to eliminate outside of the lovers and myself, in order of most to least.

I think I'm leaning towards Lemon > Drew > MariaR.

[Ircher]

This is assuming the lover pair dies.

Mandatory tomorrow IMO

I don't think I quite get why it's mandatory. Is it to avoid surprise LimLo / loss?

[Ircher]

Essentially, this means I want everyone to name the three players they want to eliminate outside of the lovers and myself, in order of most to least.

I think I'm leaning towards Lemon > Drew > MariaR.

Just going to say that I don't have high confidence in these, so I'll be doing some reading, and there may be some updates to this in the next day or two.

[Ircher]

Going through Lemons iso of D1 and into D2, they were pretty much town locking RH, and would put pressure on Hu, only to call her town later down the road.

Kinda had a vibe that they were always angling for someone else to lim, kinda pushed Joyboy hard and Dunn to an extent, went after Titus for not having a solid read on me or Hu as well.

Seems a bit off to me

Pre Edit: Not saying I knew it was you Cabd, but knew something was off about LTO and that you were hiding something

k thanks for hardclaiming scum

You mention that i go from scum hu tao to town hu tao (which i regret)

But you don't mention how i go from scumming joyboy to towning him, nor anyone else

Its very clear you simply just want to paint me in a bad light now

VOTE: Doctor drew

Please unvote for now.

[Ircher]

We have "reason" to clear nearly everyone here, though, is kinda the issue.

Right?

Cabd- Got Harmony eliminated form neighborhood stuff, helped push the scumslip (that was true), cleared Joyboy, helped titus get the guilty on light, was the counterwagon to light

Pooky- Pointed out to slip from harmony initially

Bell - Was the counter wagon to Harmony, harmony was very wanting them dead, is a self-resolving treestump who will stay in the game post-death

Maria - Chaos demoness who also happens to be psuedo-cleared by lemon and claimed self resolving, has until 5 alive to do so

Drew - Exists?

HolySpiritFreezer - Counterwagon to Hu Tao, got hutao elim on back of their reflector

Laplacian - Exists? (We know targeted Hu Tao, but NOT any proof of with what)

Lemon - Psuedo-cleared maria, (We do know sent bomb to Hu tao due to watcher fuckery)

Dunn - Remind me I know there's a reason ish?

Icher - Inventor who gave out some pretty weird stuff, otherwise remind me?



At this point, I am assuming that the watch saw anyone who initially targeted Hu Tao that night, which was Sakura, Lemon, Lap.

Actually, I think lemon claimed to target Light. I don't think that changes the analysis though.

[Ircher]

Ircher's inventions really need more clarity on exactly when phases they are handed out and how they work, yes.

I'm not sure what there is to clarify. I submitted my action night 1, and Laplacian received it presumably at day 2 start. It's a one-shot roleblock invention; I think how it works is pretty self-explanatory. No, there weren't any modifiers.

[Ircher]

I was kind of suspect of the reloader ability because Laplacian could have easily used the roleblock invention then instead. (It would've made sense too since I think Joyboy claimed to be able to self-target. Thus, mafia could roleblock to prevent the self-heal and kill.) But it seems that ended up not being the case as Drew got roleblocked last night, so that does make me feel a little better about Laplace. I guess it wouldn't be impossible that Laplacian made the kill that night.

[Ircher]

Day one ends on post 2353. All of Laplacian's ISO before this post should show a clear TRAJECTORY towards the reads he has, and his eventual targets, yes?

Let's look!


Lap's parity cop targets as claimed were:

Hu Tao, Lemon, and Dr. Drew

Day One Posts Mentioning Hu Tao

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

Comrade, can I direct you to look at lemon?

Comrade Tao, I have already looked at lemon extensively, as per my grandiose speech in 318! I concluded that they where subtly undermining our union with their rhetoric. My post included both a vote for him and a delightful pun! I would be happy to vote him again should we convince more of our fellow workers of the world to unite in this cause. But first, I must investigate LTO's argument and Bell's rebuttal. This may take a while, as the combined length of both rivals the seminal work

Das Kapital

VOTE: Dunnstral

Comrade Firebringer, while our interactions in the past have sadly been few, I now feel compelled to ask why have you aimed your lens of suspicion at Comrade Dunnstral? Perusing the minutes of our past union meetings, the only time I can find you mentioning them was in missive #285. I had assumed this was in jest rather than a serious accusation of Dunn being a perfidious capitalist. Is there any further evidence for these aspersions so I may draw my own conclusions from your logic?

What do you think?

I think

I townread Firebringer and was confused by their vote, since I also townread Dunnstral. And it was right of me to ask since it was a meta argument and this is my 6th game on this site. I also think this is a bullshit post that exists solely because you've scumread me; I don't see anyone else asking other people questions getting

bold accusatory statements

. Likely case, you're tunneled. Worst case, scum trying to set me up as a future wagon.

And to get back in character. Something something unions good

If asking for an actual opinion is accusatory, then...I guess everything is accusatory. I have accused you of being scum, but directly giving you the opportunity to address my concerns is the opposite.

What are your HST and Lemon reads?

Comrade Titus, it was the bolding that I found offensive. As to your clarification and further questions, I have stated my opinions on many of our fellow workers throughout the game. My thoughts on Lemon.tangerine I have made abundantly clear; I find them suspicious across the board, from wording in early discussions, to an unprompted claim. I have happily voted them once, and would do so again without remorse or hesitation.

HolySpiritTurtle I find less clear due to their relative dearth of posts. I tentatively lean town, but this judgement may change after I see their case on Comrade Hu Tao.

I like HT & L_G's interactions around 1330ish.

Can we just put Pooky & Bell on opposite sides of the room? Bell's been the main character for like 90% of the game. Someone just cop/gunsmith him tonight so we can resolve it.

I'm also not reading any ISOs, used up all my tryhard energy thinking of synonyms for union and trying to remember how to spell bourgeoise

That's it. That's the entirety of direct mentions of their thoughts on Hu Tao one way or another before Day One ends. I'm supposed to believe this was his parity cop choice after leaving off on that positive note? (Oh, also, for the record, Hu Tao is NOT in his hero solve)

Let's do Drew next?

Day One Posts Mentioning Doctor Drew

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

As page 47 heralds a friendly wager, I feel it unsporting to not enter

Spoiler: guess

Lemon, RH, Joyboy, Dr Drew

Wow. He literally only mentioned drew ONCE in passing as "Ever-vigilant" and then he's randomly in the hero solve?

Now Lemon gets plenty of mention, so let's go through Lemon.

Day One Posts Mentioning Lemon

Anyway inregards to our setup (i read someone posted it about being alot of 1-shot abilities which ofc it is lol) Id say that alot of ppl probably have much more creative abilities than on other forums.

Just a rumour i heard that setups are often more creative on mafiascum, sooo im expecting ppl to be doing more than complain abt union leaders lol

Aka throw nukes everywhere ty <3

Also n1 actions are gonna be p chaotic i assume bc 14 ppl all using joat actions lol (yes 15-1 is 14 after wagon)

So like what happens if everyone just kills another player?

Our noble group is 17 players, not 15. Likewise, we are blessed with a suite of one shots, made abundantly clear in the pre-game literature. Yet, this post is casual, nay, skeptical, about the existence of our one shots. Observe the hedging: "I read someone posted it", "a rumor", "probably have much more creative abilities". Our JOAT abilities were clear from the moment we signed up for the union!

COMRADES! I ask of you, why would a hard-working member of the proletariat ignore their unique skills and abilities? They would not. JOAT abilities are our way of interacting with the world, our way of finding information, our way of aiding and protecting allies, our way of furthering the perpetual march of progress! To ignore our skills is anathema to everything we stand for!

Therefore, there can be only one conclusion. Lemon.tangerine is a perfidious union-buster, as sour as his name. He has ignored his innate skills to focus on another ability, one shared with all scum. Murder.

VOTE: lemon.tangerine

Anyway inregards to our setup (i read someone posted it about being alot of 1-shot abilities which ofc it is lol) Id say that alot of ppl probably have much more creative abilities than on other forums.

Just a rumour i heard that setups are often more creative on mafiascum, sooo im expecting ppl to be doing more than complain abt union leaders lol

Aka throw nukes everywhere ty <3

Also n1 actions are gonna be p chaotic i assume bc 14 ppl all using joat actions lol (yes 15-1 is 14 after wagon)

So like what happens if everyone just kills another player?

Our noble group is 17 players, not 15. Likewise, we are blessed with a suite of one shots, made abundantly clear in the pre-game literature. Yet, this post is casual, nay, skeptical, about the existence of our one shots. Observe the hedging: "I read someone posted it", "a rumor", "probably have much more creative abilities". Our JOAT abilities were clear from the moment we signed up for the union!

COMRADES! I ask of you, why would a hard-working member of the proletariat ignore their unique skills and abilities? They would not. JOAT abilities are our way of interacting with the world, our way of finding information, our way of aiding and protecting allies, our way of furthering the perpetual march of progress! To ignore our skills is anathema to everything we stand for!

Therefore, there can be only one conclusion. Lemon.tangerine is a perfidious union-buster, as sour as his name. He has ignored his innate skills to focus on another ability, one shared with all scum. Murder.

VOTE: lemon.tangerine

Actually doesn’t this suggest otherwise? Omitting 2 players assumes 3-men team and if my brain still works correctly 17p usually has 4-men team, no?

I would indeed expect a 13-4 split; the foul bourgeoise would have sent no less than that to try, futile though it may be, to shatter our noble spirits. No, Lemon's omission of two comrades is a minor error that I would expect from distraction; instead the smoking gun of their perfidy comes from the skepticism of abilities. Reread their first sentence and tell me that it is not hedging, that is not feigned nonchalance. While the braying of Bell's possible slip still rings in our ears, lemon's words offer a far more damning perspective.

Omgus is nai

I concur. It is a natural reaction when one doubts your revolutionary spirit to lash back with harsh words and accusations. But while nai, it should be still noted in the annals of history in case a pattern of desperate flailing occurs.

Having revisited the minutes of our last union organizing meeting, I have identified several comrades who I believe are wholly devoted to our grand cause.

LTO: Has made herself a valuable member of this union with quick and intelligent reads
Pooky: A friendly comrade. Pocketed me early, so I must reevaluate in days to come
Dunnstral: While quiet, his words and votes are powerful and strategic
Titus: We may disagree, but she has a strong and confident spirit
Firebringer and Maid Cafe: Veteran union workers alike, whose casual play helps put all our hearts at ease.

I also fervently want to believe that Comrades Ircher and Relativistic Harmony can be trusted, but they have not yet demonstrated enough praxis to enmesh themselves within in my good graces.

Upon Joyboy and lemon.tangerine I have already expressed my doubts. Comrade Bell has also been troublesome to interpret, with actions both noble and base. However, suspicion is edging out. Any of these uncouth hobgoblins I would be happy to drag before a council of peers, as well as those suspiciously absent in discussions or in content.

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

Comrade, can I direct you to look at lemon?

Comrade Tao, I have already looked at lemon extensively, as per my grandiose speech in 318! I concluded that they where subtly undermining our union with their rhetoric. My post included both a vote for him and a delightful pun! I would be happy to vote him again should we convince more of our fellow workers of the world to unite in this cause. But first, I must investigate LTO's argument and Bell's rebuttal. This may take a while, as the combined length of both rivals the seminal work

Das Kapital

Good day comrades! I have begun to catch up with the discussions I missed. Oh, that I could forsake sleep to forever revel in the spirit of the proletariat!

Comrade Bell continues to confound. I am no longer unsure if he is a noble revolutionary or a foul capitalist. While I will vote if necessary, I instead urge one of our union's cunning investigators to observe hia actiona closely during the night, as to truly divine his motives. Indeed, perhaps the second night, as his alleged isolation would render our investigator's hard work moot.

I have had little change of heart towards lemon.tangerine this past day. I see no reaaon to claim abilities in the manner they did unprompted, except to gain credibility with an alleged investigative role. Comrades, I remind all of you that fake claiming is easier than normal due to our suites of abilities.

In the past, I expressed my fervent wish to be able to trust Relativitic Harmony's revolutionary spirit. While my opinion has congealed, my wish did not come true. I am beginnimg to suspect RH to be a blaggart and infiltrator of our great union! I ask of you, noble workers, reread their words with a keen eye, see if you can see what I see

As page 47 heralds a friendly wager, I feel it unsporting to not enter

Spoiler: guess

Lemon, RH, Joyboy, Dr Drew

I'm calling the first post a clear RVS vote. The second post turns it into a serious scum read.



Here at least we have a clear trajectory to the read. But with that said... Here's why these targets fucking suck:


A parity cop's optimal town usage is to use a fairly well known target whose alignment you are nearly positive on, alongside two others. This gives you the most bang for your buck. None of the three names he chose as initial targets are in his "townpool".

What is the optimal MAFIA usage of a parity cop? Hint: Pick two murky towns and one scum and then when that scum flips you have a guaranteed mislim, OR when one of those towns dies anyways, well, now you have your murk-scum "cleared as town".

Here's his town pool. Why did none of these serve as the calibration choice?

LTO: Has made herself a valuable member of this union with quick and intelligent reads
Pooky: A friendly comrade. Pocketed me early, so I must reevaluate in days to come
Dunnstral: While quiet, his words and votes are powerful and strategic
Titus: We may disagree, but she has a strong and confident spirit
Firebringer and Maid Cafe: Veteran union workers alike, whose casual play helps put all our hearts at ease.

Why are the results "surprising" here?

Good morning comrades! I hope that we are all well rested and ready to resume our glorious revolution! Through a combination of meditation, interrogation, and rooting through garbage for suspicious evidence, I believe I have identified several comrades who are, surprisingly, trustworthy

From Laplacian's POV, he has a parity result on three people, none of which he was town reading, but one was NOT in his scum pool, and was in his "nulls" as of this point? Why should it be "surprising" to get a result of Hu Tao town? Hint: Because this is informed guilt and he knows Hu Tao is indeed his partner who he spent day one avoiding talking to or about much.

I think the part I find most compelling is that Laplacian is "surprised" at "Hu Tao town"; the assumption that all the targets were town (while maybe more likely than the opposite) does read as informed.

[Ircher]

Day one ends on post 2353. All of Laplacian's ISO before this post should show a clear TRAJECTORY towards the reads he has, and his eventual targets, yes?

Let's look!


Lap's parity cop targets as claimed were:

Hu Tao, Lemon, and Dr. Drew

Day One Posts Mentioning Hu Tao

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

Comrade, can I direct you to look at lemon?

Comrade Tao, I have already looked at lemon extensively, as per my grandiose speech in 318! I concluded that they where subtly undermining our union with their rhetoric. My post included both a vote for him and a delightful pun! I would be happy to vote him again should we convince more of our fellow workers of the world to unite in this cause. But first, I must investigate LTO's argument and Bell's rebuttal. This may take a while, as the combined length of both rivals the seminal work

Das Kapital

VOTE: Dunnstral

Comrade Firebringer, while our interactions in the past have sadly been few, I now feel compelled to ask why have you aimed your lens of suspicion at Comrade Dunnstral? Perusing the minutes of our past union meetings, the only time I can find you mentioning them was in missive #285. I had assumed this was in jest rather than a serious accusation of Dunn being a perfidious capitalist. Is there any further evidence for these aspersions so I may draw my own conclusions from your logic?

What do you think?

I think

I townread Firebringer and was confused by their vote, since I also townread Dunnstral. And it was right of me to ask since it was a meta argument and this is my 6th game on this site. I also think this is a bullshit post that exists solely because you've scumread me; I don't see anyone else asking other people questions getting

bold accusatory statements

. Likely case, you're tunneled. Worst case, scum trying to set me up as a future wagon.

And to get back in character. Something something unions good

If asking for an actual opinion is accusatory, then...I guess everything is accusatory. I have accused you of being scum, but directly giving you the opportunity to address my concerns is the opposite.

What are your HST and Lemon reads?

Comrade Titus, it was the bolding that I found offensive. As to your clarification and further questions, I have stated my opinions on many of our fellow workers throughout the game. My thoughts on Lemon.tangerine I have made abundantly clear; I find them suspicious across the board, from wording in early discussions, to an unprompted claim. I have happily voted them once, and would do so again without remorse or hesitation.

HolySpiritTurtle I find less clear due to their relative dearth of posts. I tentatively lean town, but this judgement may change after I see their case on Comrade Hu Tao.

I like HT & L_G's interactions around 1330ish.

Can we just put Pooky & Bell on opposite sides of the room? Bell's been the main character for like 90% of the game. Someone just cop/gunsmith him tonight so we can resolve it.

I'm also not reading any ISOs, used up all my tryhard energy thinking of synonyms for union and trying to remember how to spell bourgeoise

That's it. That's the entirety of direct mentions of their thoughts on Hu Tao one way or another before Day One ends. I'm supposed to believe this was his parity cop choice after leaving off on that positive note? (Oh, also, for the record, Hu Tao is NOT in his hero solve)

Let's do Drew next?

Day One Posts Mentioning Doctor Drew

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

As page 47 heralds a friendly wager, I feel it unsporting to not enter

Spoiler: guess

Lemon, RH, Joyboy, Dr Drew

Wow. He literally only mentioned drew ONCE in passing as "Ever-vigilant" and then he's randomly in the hero solve?

Now Lemon gets plenty of mention, so let's go through Lemon.

Day One Posts Mentioning Lemon

Anyway inregards to our setup (i read someone posted it about being alot of 1-shot abilities which ofc it is lol) Id say that alot of ppl probably have much more creative abilities than on other forums.

Just a rumour i heard that setups are often more creative on mafiascum, sooo im expecting ppl to be doing more than complain abt union leaders lol

Aka throw nukes everywhere ty <3

Also n1 actions are gonna be p chaotic i assume bc 14 ppl all using joat actions lol (yes 15-1 is 14 after wagon)

So like what happens if everyone just kills another player?

Our noble group is 17 players, not 15. Likewise, we are blessed with a suite of one shots, made abundantly clear in the pre-game literature. Yet, this post is casual, nay, skeptical, about the existence of our one shots. Observe the hedging: "I read someone posted it", "a rumor", "probably have much more creative abilities". Our JOAT abilities were clear from the moment we signed up for the union!

COMRADES! I ask of you, why would a hard-working member of the proletariat ignore their unique skills and abilities? They would not. JOAT abilities are our way of interacting with the world, our way of finding information, our way of aiding and protecting allies, our way of furthering the perpetual march of progress! To ignore our skills is anathema to everything we stand for!

Therefore, there can be only one conclusion. Lemon.tangerine is a perfidious union-buster, as sour as his name. He has ignored his innate skills to focus on another ability, one shared with all scum. Murder.

VOTE: lemon.tangerine

Anyway inregards to our setup (i read someone posted it about being alot of 1-shot abilities which ofc it is lol) Id say that alot of ppl probably have much more creative abilities than on other forums.

Just a rumour i heard that setups are often more creative on mafiascum, sooo im expecting ppl to be doing more than complain abt union leaders lol

Aka throw nukes everywhere ty <3

Also n1 actions are gonna be p chaotic i assume bc 14 ppl all using joat actions lol (yes 15-1 is 14 after wagon)

So like what happens if everyone just kills another player?

Our noble group is 17 players, not 15. Likewise, we are blessed with a suite of one shots, made abundantly clear in the pre-game literature. Yet, this post is casual, nay, skeptical, about the existence of our one shots. Observe the hedging: "I read someone posted it", "a rumor", "probably have much more creative abilities". Our JOAT abilities were clear from the moment we signed up for the union!

COMRADES! I ask of you, why would a hard-working member of the proletariat ignore their unique skills and abilities? They would not. JOAT abilities are our way of interacting with the world, our way of finding information, our way of aiding and protecting allies, our way of furthering the perpetual march of progress! To ignore our skills is anathema to everything we stand for!

Therefore, there can be only one conclusion. Lemon.tangerine is a perfidious union-buster, as sour as his name. He has ignored his innate skills to focus on another ability, one shared with all scum. Murder.

VOTE: lemon.tangerine

Actually doesn’t this suggest otherwise? Omitting 2 players assumes 3-men team and if my brain still works correctly 17p usually has 4-men team, no?

I would indeed expect a 13-4 split; the foul bourgeoise would have sent no less than that to try, futile though it may be, to shatter our noble spirits. No, Lemon's omission of two comrades is a minor error that I would expect from distraction; instead the smoking gun of their perfidy comes from the skepticism of abilities. Reread their first sentence and tell me that it is not hedging, that is not feigned nonchalance. While the braying of Bell's possible slip still rings in our ears, lemon's words offer a far more damning perspective.

Omgus is nai

I concur. It is a natural reaction when one doubts your revolutionary spirit to lash back with harsh words and accusations. But while nai, it should be still noted in the annals of history in case a pattern of desperate flailing occurs.

Having revisited the minutes of our last union organizing meeting, I have identified several comrades who I believe are wholly devoted to our grand cause.

LTO: Has made herself a valuable member of this union with quick and intelligent reads
Pooky: A friendly comrade. Pocketed me early, so I must reevaluate in days to come
Dunnstral: While quiet, his words and votes are powerful and strategic
Titus: We may disagree, but she has a strong and confident spirit
Firebringer and Maid Cafe: Veteran union workers alike, whose casual play helps put all our hearts at ease.

I also fervently want to believe that Comrades Ircher and Relativistic Harmony can be trusted, but they have not yet demonstrated enough praxis to enmesh themselves within in my good graces.

Upon Joyboy and lemon.tangerine I have already expressed my doubts. Comrade Bell has also been troublesome to interpret, with actions both noble and base. However, suspicion is edging out. Any of these uncouth hobgoblins I would be happy to drag before a council of peers, as well as those suspiciously absent in discussions or in content.

VOTE: Joyboy
Comrades, upon rereading I find Joyboy's roster of pirates and foes in revolutionary pamphlet #567 alarming. As has been called out by the ever-vigilant Doctor Drew and Lady Terminally Online, it included the absent light_ganski as an ally of Joyboy's under flimsy pretenses. Furthermore, the only two foes on the roster were Bell, a safe accusation at the time, and LTO, who is new to this union and its unique quirks. Joyboy then even says that LTO and Bell, his only two suspects are

not

aligned, meaning their read list only truly has one suspect in the end. I fear this incoherent list represents not Joyboy's true feelings, but was hastily built with ulterior motives. Joyboy is trying to deflect suspicion from away from his capitalistic lust for treasure.

Comrade, can I direct you to look at lemon?

Comrade Tao, I have already looked at lemon extensively, as per my grandiose speech in 318! I concluded that they where subtly undermining our union with their rhetoric. My post included both a vote for him and a delightful pun! I would be happy to vote him again should we convince more of our fellow workers of the world to unite in this cause. But first, I must investigate LTO's argument and Bell's rebuttal. This may take a while, as the combined length of both rivals the seminal work

Das Kapital

Good day comrades! I have begun to catch up with the discussions I missed. Oh, that I could forsake sleep to forever revel in the spirit of the proletariat!

Comrade Bell continues to confound. I am no longer unsure if he is a noble revolutionary or a foul capitalist. While I will vote if necessary, I instead urge one of our union's cunning investigators to observe hia actiona closely during the night, as to truly divine his motives. Indeed, perhaps the second night, as his alleged isolation would render our investigator's hard work moot.

I have had little change of heart towards lemon.tangerine this past day. I see no reaaon to claim abilities in the manner they did unprompted, except to gain credibility with an alleged investigative role. Comrades, I remind all of you that fake claiming is easier than normal due to our suites of abilities.

In the past, I expressed my fervent wish to be able to trust Relativitic Harmony's revolutionary spirit. While my opinion has congealed, my wish did not come true. I am beginnimg to suspect RH to be a blaggart and infiltrator of our great union! I ask of you, noble workers, reread their words with a keen eye, see if you can see what I see

As page 47 heralds a friendly wager, I feel it unsporting to not enter

Spoiler: guess

Lemon, RH, Joyboy, Dr Drew

I'm calling the first post a clear RVS vote. The second post turns it into a serious scum read.



Here at least we have a clear trajectory to the read. But with that said... Here's why these targets fucking suck:


A parity cop's optimal town usage is to use a fairly well known target whose alignment you are nearly positive on, alongside two others. This gives you the most bang for your buck. None of the three names he chose as initial targets are in his "townpool".

What is the optimal MAFIA usage of a parity cop? Hint: Pick two murky towns and one scum and then when that scum flips you have a guaranteed mislim, OR when one of those towns dies anyways, well, now you have your murk-scum "cleared as town".

Here's his town pool. Why did none of these serve as the calibration choice?

LTO: Has made herself a valuable member of this union with quick and intelligent reads
Pooky: A friendly comrade. Pocketed me early, so I must reevaluate in days to come
Dunnstral: While quiet, his words and votes are powerful and strategic
Titus: We may disagree, but she has a strong and confident spirit
Firebringer and Maid Cafe: Veteran union workers alike, whose casual play helps put all our hearts at ease.

Why are the results "surprising" here?

Good morning comrades! I hope that we are all well rested and ready to resume our glorious revolution! Through a combination of meditation, interrogation, and rooting through garbage for suspicious evidence, I believe I have identified several comrades who are, surprisingly, trustworthy

From Laplacian's POV, he has a parity result on three people, none of which he was town reading, but one was NOT in his scum pool, and was in his "nulls" as of this point? Why should it be "surprising" to get a result of Hu Tao town? Hint: Because this is informed guilt and he knows Hu Tao is indeed his partner who he spent day one avoiding talking to or about much.

This entire case hinges on the fact that I didn't immediately spew any minor suspicion I have. I'm only going to effort post if I have actual evidence. Vibes don't merit a huge wordy post, and huge wordy posts were the only way I was posting D1.

And huge fucking lol on complaining about optimal play. You want to nab people for playing suboptimally, let's policy MariaR for the N1 lightning rod fucking up every action.

I'm actually think MariaR isn't scum anymore. I looked at interactions between Hu Tao and light_ganski with MariaR, and it looked to me like they were trying to push MariaR as their designated mislim.

[Ircher]

I find myself in need of the syryana nodding head gif.


Also proof you haven't been reading the thread because you already know alignments:

You want to nab people for playing suboptimally, let's policy MariaR for the N1 lightning rod fucking up every action.

I feel like everyone got deja vu because I was clear about it.

I'm not lying. There's no reason for me to come into the thread and make up some sort of wild lie like that.

Do I know why Ircher's action went through? No. All I know is I used a lighting rod causing every action to be on Bell. Maybe action order messes with that but shrug.jpg

Can you claim your lightning rod ability again? What modifiers does it have and why did it not show up in watcher results?

All actions go to the person I visit. The only modifier involved is not relevant (as in doesn't matter to the issue at hand) why it did not show up the watcher? your guess is as good as mine.

If you're curious the modifier in question was

compulsive

I fucking know it was compulsive. They could have warned us so every invest results that night didn't get burnt.

That would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

[Ircher]

I read through light_ganski, Hu Tao, and Relativistic Harmony's ISO. How likely do we think that Hu Tao forgets their partner Doctor Drew replaced greedant? I feel that points towards Drew and Hu Tao not being aligned.

[Ircher]

I think my final reads are Laplacian > Dunnstral >>>> Everyone else.

- Dunnstral has by far the worst associatives with all three flipped scum. Dunnstral is also a competent enough player to carry the entire team without feeling fazed.
- MariaR looks a lot better with how aggressively Light tried to get her policy-limmed (as well as Hu Tao expressing interest there as well).
- Bell looks good from Harmony's push against Bell particularly around Harmony calling the case against Bell "airtight".
- Doctor Drew looks a better considering that Hu Tao completely forgot Drew replaced greedant.

If Cabd or HolySpiritTurtle are still alive in 3p, they would get my vote there regardless of who the alternative is.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Laplacian

[Ircher]

My main reason for townreading him was the roleblock gift

You shouldn't town read me off of that.

[Ircher]

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have been town reading me earlier based off of that.

[Ircher]

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have been town reading me earlier based off of that.

Why were you seemingly town reading Lap then(or at least didn't want them in your preferred lim order)?

I was scum reading Laplacian going into the night. I don't think I voiced that out loud, but that was indeed the case primarily due to this point that I made:

I was kind of suspect of the reloader ability because Laplacian could have easily used the roleblock invention then instead. (It would've made sense too since I think Joyboy claimed to be able to self-target. Thus, mafia could roleblock to prevent the self-heal and kill.) But it seems that ended up not being the case as Drew got roleblocked last night, so that does make me feel a little better about Laplace. I guess it wouldn't be impossible that Laplacian made the kill that night.

Post-claim, I was no longer actively scum reading Laplacian (but not town reading either). Then after thinking it through some more, I'm back at Laplacian is scum for using the roleblock last night rather than waiting for Bell and Pooky to be back in the game.

From a play standpoint, Laplacian has been solidly middle of the pack. Nothing stands out as egregiously scummy or as obvious town, and I've not spent a lot of time in general trying to discern Laplacian's alignmebt. Cabd's points make a lot of sense however and between that and the way the roleblock invention was used, I'm pretty confident that Laplacian is the last scum.

[Ircher]

So basically all three of (lap,ircher,drew) agree final scum is in that list but not them.

Should we go through the list of the rest one more time? We should start with me. I like talking about Me!

Nah, it's not me, and I don't really think it's Drew at this point either. I think it's 70% chance Laplacian and 29% chance Dunnstral. 1% chance of anyone else.

[Ircher]

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't have been town reading me earlier based off of that.

Why were you seemingly town reading Lap then(or at least didn't want them in your preferred lim order)?

I was scum reading Laplacian going into the night. I don't think I voiced that out loud, but that was indeed the case primarily due to this point that I made:

I was kind of suspect of the reloader ability because Laplacian could have easily used the roleblock invention then instead. (It would've made sense too since I think Joyboy claimed to be able to self-target. Thus, mafia could roleblock to prevent the self-heal and kill.) But it seems that ended up not being the case as Drew got roleblocked last night, so that does make me feel a little better about Laplace. I guess it wouldn't be impossible that Laplacian made the kill that night.

Post-claim, I was no longer actively scum reading Laplacian (but not town reading either). Then after thinking it through some more, I'm back at Laplacian is scum for using the roleblock last night rather than waiting for Bell and Pooky to be back in the game.

From a play standpoint, Laplacian has been solidly middle of the pack. Nothing stands out as egregiously scummy or as obvious town, and I've not spent a lot of time in general trying to discern Laplacian's alignmebt. Cabd's points make a lot of sense however and between that and the way the roleblock invention was used, I'm pretty confident that Laplacian is the last scum.

Why would scum use it on me of all people though, that is the thing

It's more a matter of burning the ability. Laplacian knows he has to claim to use it on someone eventually, and furthermore, by your own claim, you hadn't used your abilities yet, so that gives a higher chance that using it on you wouldn't be a waste over someone else.

[Ircher]

Again as well, if there isn't a 3p mucking things up, I will quit this site, I promise*



*Promise not valid on Sundays

I don't think there's a third party.

[Ircher]

So basically all three of (lap,ircher,drew) agree final scum is in that list but not them.

Should we go through the list of the rest one more time? We should start with me. I like talking about Me!

I enjoyed your pushing of Bell, so like I said.....never vote you(even if you weren't conf town)

Oh you meant you wanted to start talking about us

No no, I literally meant talking about me and everyone else each person TOWN reads in addition to their scum case. Just in case I want pretty detailed opinions on record in case we hit town once or twice whoever is left in endgame final has a bunch of dead flipped town voices and opinions to consult.


Like I said as lto. Sometimes being overly cautious is very worth it. I've been burned by a "games already over lol" game state and then ended up having to nuke varsoon in final three out of what we thought was a win six cycles prior.

I think I've already done that. MariaR is in my never eliminate pile by the way that both Hu Tao and Light attempted to get her policy limmed.

HolySpirit, I town read mainly for mechanical reasons, but there also a few anti-associatives with Light. Likewise, I also town read you Cabd though I think your play is also town-indicative. However, if either of you are alive in 3p Lim Lo, I'm voting whichever one of you is alive.

lemon I'm not particularly town reading but not necessarily scum reading either. The way the bomb vest was handled was I guess a bit on the townie side. (If it were planned to call it off, I think Lemon would've waited a bit longer. Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to send it to your buddy. Although, did we ever confirm Lemon actually targeted who he said he did? We know he got redirected from the Watcher results, but I guess we can only guess what the original target was.) There's also that Hu Tao pushed lemon pretty aggressively as first, but I couldn't tell whether it was scum pushing a townie or just scum distancing knowing that early reads don't tend to blow up. Play from the slot has been very lackluster.

I think Drew is town. I feel Drew would be engaging less or at least less substantially here if Drew was the last scum. He legitimately seems to be still seeking the last scum, though my one doubt on this slot is maybe the current focus on third party.

Bell is town. Harmony's push against them clears him plus I think Bell eventually did town tell like he always does.

Pooky I guess could be scum. I don't really have a read there, but it seems like we're resolving the slot regardless, so....

[Ircher]

Also

Shower thought. What if it's 3 plus a traitor and that's what the "scab" reference laplacian keeps going on about is a hint towards? And then perhaps the first three didn't have any great scum partner interactions with whoever it is. (I mean of course unless it's Dunn which, it could be? But man that cheekyness of the code taunt then, but it's within his skills)

Don't traitors typically get endgamed if main faction scum are dead?

[Ircher]

Laplacian > Dunnstral >>> Pooky > Lemon >>> Doctor Drew > Bell > HolySpiritTurtle >> Cabd > MariaR.

That's the order from most scum read to least scum read.

[Ircher]

Thanks for modding fferyllt.