Crackers! Mafia -- Game Over. See page 50

[Adel]

Death Scene

roflcopter, Doctor, Town-aligned was killed.

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votecount as of 1024

_{with 7 alive, 4 will lynch before deadline}

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¬No Lynch:

none

not voting:

7

:destructor, DrippingGoofball, Elmo, Korts, populartajo, Raging Rabbit, vollkan

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Day 4's deadline is December 31st at 08:08 (UTC)

Countdown timer to deadline

[destructor]

Suspects from Group A:

Dead

Yosarian2 - Inuit Godfather

Alive

Korts (Claimed Vig, possible SK, very likely not part of the Inuit Mafia.)
vollkan (Claimed Townie)

DGB seem like a good guys to me. Tajo seems weakly townish.

Suspects from Group B:

Dead

BM - Townie

SensFan - Iniut Goon

Alive

Elmo

The list is still good.

Of Group B, I noted Elmo saying he might vote Yos but never getting around to it. He did vote for Korts pretty much all through Day 1, so if Yos and Korts are scum together, I'd say Elmo is pretty clear.

I doubt that Korts is Inuit Mafia, so I need to look at Elmo's interaction with Yos and Sens/FL again.

I think it'll be safe to say that anyone rofl declared town after Day 1 is very likely town.

[destructor]

rofl dying means, assuming we have 3 Mafia, the last Mafiate is not a Mafia Doctor.

I could support a massclaim today. I'd like to see claims in this order:
Elmo
Tajo
Raging Rabbit
DBG

I'd prefer to go last, unless someone has a reason for me to go earlier.

[destructor]

Maybe massclaim isn't so useful.

Elmo is my first choice for a lynch. I'm doing some reading over his involvement in the FL wagon and he seems overly cautious about it, like he was biding his time, hoping he wouldn't have to join it if he didn't need to. I'm also fairly suspicious of how silent he became about Yos and, again, how he seemed to bide his time without committing to a position on Yos until after he was killed.

If vollkan is scum, he was distancing from Yos and being bussed by FL. Possible, but I don't see why the Inuit mafia would have thought that that was necessary.

FL trying to link DGB and Yos makes DGB look more like town.

RR still seems townish, but I think he could pull all of this off as scum... except...

dgb, des and raging rabbit are all surely town, so i think we're in pretty great shape right now.

Dunno if this means he protected the three of us the last three days.

I will do some rereading, but I'm definitely leaning towards Korts killing Elmo today.

[populartajo]

Well played, rolf.
I found this regarding Elmo.

FL feels pretty townish

upon entry. I remember that Sens response felt decent, too. (Also, I since learned that Sens had RL issues, I think, which changes the interpretation of the lurking a bit.) Hum. Yos pressing on Sensfan seens opportunistic enough that I give her slight town points for it.

It's irritating, because I seem to keep saying X isn't strong enough, Y isn't strong enough, but I'd much rather do that than go a mile a minute in the wrong direction.

I think FL is probably the person I have the weakest read on

, right now... the quote above means I'm probably going to be rereading (again) Sens/her next.

Bolded for emphasis.
I think Elmo is a more possible scumpartner than Vollkan now that Yos and FL have both come up scum and I think busing that hard from both sides is a little crazy. However, since I know Im town and DGB, des and RR have strong protwon reads Im thinking Korts should vig/kill Elmo today.

Vig/Kill: Elmo.
Vote:Vollkan.

Im voting Vollkan since its the only option I have left if Elmo comes up town.

[Korts]

rofl, my condolences, but you mentioned something about your reasons against me. It is basically only you and the horribly opportunistic Korts who were interested in my death at any point, after all.

What did you mean, your condolences? Perhaps you had sent in a kill? Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.

I find the fact you have to "dig stuff up" instead of posting a summary like I asked quite significant. Could it possibly be that you don't have anything to hand because you never had solid reasons, and are only now looking for stuff you can plausibly spin?

I have already said that I saw a strong connection between you and Yos. The quotes I provided so far are very incomplete (pretty much only the first couple posts of Yos'). I will have to get the quotes to justify my stance; what's so "significant" about that?

[Elmo]

I'm doing some reading over his involvement in the FL wagon and he seems overly cautious about it, like he was biding his time, hoping he wouldn't have to join it if he didn't need to.

What is 'overly cautious'? I mean, what part of my behaviour seems unlikely to have come from town? We have pretty much a single post from FL, the only game I've read with her in had her being scummy and lynched as vanilla town, and if we mislynch her, we're quite conceivably going into LyLo. At minimum, I'm interested in Vollkan's reasons for suspecting her. I dunno exactly what you think I should have done differently, or even gained from that, I mean the wagon on her wasn't shifting. That was part of my concern, the way she was playing, she was going to end up lynched and didn't seem to care at all. I still find it surprising she basically didn't attempt to defend herself.

and, again, how he seemed to bide his time without committing to a position on Yos until after he was killed.

One thing is for sure: Yos2's interactions with Des creep me the fuck out. That is the clearest thing to come out of this thus far.

Especially, I find it invidious to say "Wow, people were saying my reasons were just gut! That's really weird - they must be CKD's scumbuddies!" where, really, that's a very natural interpretation of that post. I mean, even if (somehow) that's not what you meant, the misperception is pretty easy to make, no?

No?

I'm also fairly suspicious of how silent he became about Yos

Reverse order because the above are my last two mentions of Yos before the long quiet. I posted once quickly to say the thing about Guardian before I forgot. The next time I post 'for real', Yos is dead. So, uh, what?

Tajo, those aren't contradictory. Her initial post seemed somewhat townish, but it's literally nearly the only serious thing I had to look at from Sens/FL, so obviously I have stronger reads from other people.

rofl, my condolences, but you mentioned something about your reasons against me.

What did you mean, your condolences?

i'll give some details on why i think elmo is scum tonight or tomorrow, i've just spent the day at the funeral of someone very close to me and am not up to that right now

That. I am not a cheesy Bond movie villain, nor am I subtly breadcrumbing my nightkills so I can better convince people when I later claim mafia goon.

I have already said that I saw a strong connection between you and Yos. The quotes I provided so far are very incomplete (pretty much only the first couple posts of Yos'). I will have to get the quotes to justify my stance; what's so "significant" about that?

That I asked you to give a summary, and that apparently you couldn't do that. If you'd had reasons already, you'd have been able to summarise them. It seemed more like you avoided doing so in order to stall for time to look for a plausible case.

[Korts]

That. I am not a cheesy Bond movie villain, nor am I subtly breadcrumbing my nightkills so I can better convince people when I later claim mafia goon.

Oh. My condolences, too. Sorry for that accusation.

And I will give my reasons today. I'm starting with sifting through your and Yos's posts now and will be done in a couple hours (multi-tasking and such).

[Raging Rabbit]

Well, that takes some of the edge off. I would guess we have a mafia roleblocker left, although we can always hope it's a doc and they now cannot kill. I think we shouldn't count on Korts being able to kill today. (We'll know if he's lying, because he's compulsive either way.)

Whichever it is, assuming a 3 person scumgroup there'd be no way for them to both kill and block Korts. And surely, Korts is able to kill - nobody else claimed credit on the Yos kill, so it was clearly commited by Korts, who also can't be a member of the mafia.

also, possible korts should be suiciding today or tomorrow

Bad plan, SK's are immune to kills so a suicide would only be effective if he happens to be a vig. And he could claim he go blocked anyways. When we decide it's time, Korts should be lynched.

Des and DGB I'm almost sure are town, even regardless of rofl's possilbe knowledge. vollkan is an unlikely candidate given the excessive amount of bussing he needed to have done as scum, and Korts isn't mafia. That leaves tajo and Elmo as the two strongest candidates, so they should be today's lynch and vig imo. I'd suggest

vigging tajo

first.

[Korts]

Again, there's this from Yos:

Ok. I'm not actually going to have any real logic behind most of this, so don't expect it, but based on my readthrough:

People I won't vote for right now:

3. DrippingGoofball
13. Battle Mage
10. Elmo

The first two seem to be really trying hard to do scumhunting, and I like that. Elmo hasn't done that much yet, but I totally expect him to nail the scum godfather given another 48 hours or so, so I'll give him some breathing room

Which is strange because while DGB and BM had been posting relative content, the sum of Elmo's posts is random vote, bitching about what is "worth reading", admitted spamming with nice pictures, a meta comment, and unjustified claims including a scumlist out of the blue and BM being meta-townish. Pretty much everyone else had contributed more than Elmo, so I don't see why Yos chose him beside two very active players.

Then there's this post:

See, I was all ready to explain to Vollkan why lurking is pro-town, but then Yos had to post, and I just can't bring myself to in his presence. (No, I wasn't lurking, no, I don't intentionally lurk as scum, no, I'm not particularly lurky in general.)

Yeah, I don't think you were lurking. I mean, this is, what, something like your 10th post in the first 4 days of the game? I can't imagine any standards by which that could reasonably be called "lurking".

The accusations weren't lurking in particular, to the best of my knowledge, but despite that, not only does Yos accept the mischaracterisation of the argument against you, he comes to your defense. (The case was, as far as I know, deliberate and admitted lack of content and reasoning.)

Also, I find it odd that Korts, Volkan, and Destuctor are all all attacking for my vote on CKD and yet not one has shown the slightest bit of curiosity for why I am voting him.

Yos.. what

precisely

is the intent behind this post?

It didn't seem odd to you, that they were just flatly declaring my vote on CKD to be "gut", rather then, like, bothering to ask me for the reasons behind my actions?

I would say the intent behind my post was to try and start to flush out possible CKD scumbuddies.

Asks for support. And no, it wouldn't have been better to ask in the quicktopic thread, because when asked a question publicly, you won't have as good a chance of refusing to take sides.

And now from Elmo's posts:

Also, I find it odd that Korts, Volkan, and Destuctor are all all attacking for my vote on CKD and yet not one has shown the slightest bit of curiosity for why I am voting him.

Yos.. what precisely is the intent behind this post?

This question seems simply for the sake of poising a question at Yos, since the intent of Yos' post was fairly evident.

SCUM:

vollkan ?
curiouskarmadog ✔
Battle Mage X!
Korts ✔

TOWN:

DrippingGoofball ~
destructor ✔
roflcopter ~
Yosarian2 ??
populartajo ✔

AMBIGUOUS:

Raging Rabbit ✔
SensFan ✔
Elmo ✔
Kison ✔

I think maybe we are on the same wavelength, but you are townifying Yos too easily. Take a long look at that thingigummie next to his name, and tell me you want to file him under town at this point. (Most other people, yeah, maybe.)

Notice the fact that Elmo is trying to keep Yos ambiguous; the fact that he's casting minor suspicion on him for something that has no relation to his in-game actions (the scummy award) makes me believe that this is subtle bussing.

Basically that's all there is before Yos is killed.

So that's the case.

[Elmo]

Whichever it is, assuming a 3 person scumgroup there'd be no way for them to both kill and block Korts.

Possible Roles

All roles that appear in the game are from this list. Not every role in this list is used in the game.

Mafia Roleblocker

You may perform both a kill and a roleblock in the same period of day.

Yeah, there is, which is my point.

Korts, let me quote you:

yos was way too concerned about why people were wagoning you day one and made it his business to make sure your wagon didn't outcompete ckd's. then the continued expressions of exasperation over the fact that not many people did address his concerns about your wagon. thats the biggest thing.

He was a bit too obvious, though. Buddying up, incriminating me, red herring for the town, I don't have much else I can reply with.

So basically you are saying, yes, Yosarian2 was deliberately trying to connect himself to you, no, there's not a lot to reply beyond that.

So when the mafia godfather GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO SAY HE'S NOT SUSPICIOUS OF SOMEONE, especially when THERE IS NO CASE ON THEM VOICED BY ANYONE, you might take a moment to think "hmm, perhaps they're trying to connect themselves to someone they're not aligned with". But apparently not.

From memory, there was no argument presented against me at any point up until now, apart from what you already said, which I have refuted. No-one even suspected me apart from roflcopter, which was stated as pretty much purely for lurking. I don't think anyone ever accused me for 'deliberate lack of content' at that point. So to say he is mischaracterising the case against me is completely wrong, because THERE WASN'T ANY CASE MADE.

"It didn't seem odd to you that they ___" is a question. It is not a request for support, it is an attempt to get me to look at his attackers in the hopes I'll suspect them rather than him. It is CLASSIC OMGUS. The first step in getting X to suspect Y is to get X actively looking for reasons why Y might be scum, and in answering this question, I am essentially forced to look for reasons why the mentioned people might be scum. It's as plain as day, at least it should be.

If he wanted me to support him as scum, yes, he would just have asked me to in the quicktopic thread. Scum do not try and force each other's hand to support them or take a specific course of action, they work AS A TEAM in a coordinated fashion. If I was scum with him, we would have done something like read over the thread together, figure out whether or not it was the correct move for me to defend him or bus him, and then act accordingly, and all without giving any indication of it in-thread. Probably it would come out roughly like how Vollkan acted.

The question is very relevant, because the whole point of what he is doing is OMGUS, that is, finding a way to attack his attackers instead of answering their case against him. Therefore, he is implying that there is some good reason to find them suspicious for believing that his vote is based on gut or that he didn't have reasons. But he almost literally said both of those things in the post where he voted CKD. So he is clearly manufacturing reasons to suspect his attackers, right at the point where they start attacking him, and this, in my opinion,

is the ideal basis on which to get him lynched

, and getting him to unambiguously say that people are scummy for pushing that position is the first step. This is probably (arguably) better than what Des was pushing on him. And my posts before I had to essentially drop out for a while continue that theme.

I have not said that Yos is suspicious for having an award. I meant precisely WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, which is that DGB was far too quick to file him under town, given that he's good at manipulating people to think just that. And golly gee, given that he turned out to be scum, perhaps that remark is totally justified. "Keeping him ambiguous" is inconsistent with the remarks I quoted in my last post.

I think you know full well that Yos was trying to connect to people, since he tried to connect himself to you, and you pushed this to direct attention away from you at a critical point. Again, your absolute certainty of me, then the quick switch to FL for a dubious reason stinks of "anyone but me".

Next.

[Raging Rabbit]

Above post pings my scumdar, for some reason. Something in the tone feels off.

[Elmo]

I suspect it's resembling that thing that scum like to do where they'll basically abandon any pretence at judging alignment and move straight to trying to get the person attacking them lynched. Difference is, I've been saying KortsScum for ages, and I'm probably OMGUSsing to some degree.

Or it could be something else; I don't know. I was feeling pretty ratty when I wrote it, if that's any info. (shrug)

[DrippingGoofball]

I was wondering why I'm still alive.

Kison, why go along with the joke that you are busing me?

Because it's precisely what you're calling it: a joke

No it isn't. The scum team consists of Kison, Guardian and BM. vollkan is the neighborhood serial killer.

Lol. DrippingGoofball is awesome.

I was wrong about Kison.

I was wrong about Guardian.

I was wrong about BM.

I was wrong about Yos.

Am I wrong about vollkan? Rofl? Des? It the last two are scum they deserve the win, mind you.

[Korts]

DGB: rofl's dead.

Elmo: I'll address your post tomorrow.

[Raging Rabbit]

I suspect it's resembling that thing that scum like to do where they'll basically abandon any pretence at judging alignment and move straight to trying to get the person attacking them lynched. Difference is, I've been saying KortsScum for ages, and I'm probably OMGUSsing to some degree.

Or it could be something else; I don't know. I was feeling pretty ratty when I wrote it, if that's any info. (shrug)

It's not that, I think Korts is anti town as well and have for a while now. Feeling ratty is a probable cause for the pissed off tone, but there's something else there I'm having trouble putting my finger.

If he wanted me to support him as scum, yes, he would just have asked me to in the quicktopic thread. Scum do not try and force each other's hand to support them or take a specific course of action, they work AS A TEAM in a coordinated fashion. If I was scum with him, we would have done something like read over the thread together, figure out whether or not it was the correct move for me to defend him or bus him, and then act accordingly, and all without giving any indication of it in-thread. Probably it would come out roughly like how Vollkan acted.

This paragraph in particurlar is odd, both in the manner it's phrased and the way you pass off total WIFOM as absolute fact and use it to accuse vollkan.


Oh, and you're right about the roleblocker. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if Korts' kill gets blocked.

[Korts]

Unfortunately for scum, they won't know whether to block me until after I've shot my bullet, since it's good for them if I manage to misvidge, and they have no way of telling that I will really follow the town (WIFOMtrap).

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: rofl's dead.

Grumble, well least I was right on

someone

's alignment.

I agree with the case on Elmo. I could vote Elmo.

[DrippingGoofball]

So Korts, you didn't kill rofl? You better not.

I give you my blessing to use Elmo for target practice.

[Elmo]

That wasn't intended as a direct accusation of Vollkan. I don't think I've ever said "Voll bussed Yos so he is scum", I am merely stating the obvious, which is that it's a reasonable possibility that Yos was bussed by Vollkan.

It's not just WIFOM, it's outright ridiculous to suggest Yos would need to subtly hint at what he wanted me to do when we'd have a quicktopic thread if I were scum. Korts admits that much, so he has to find some hypothetical reason why Yos would want to do it in-thread to support his case. Non-terrible scum work as a team, that is to say they don't attempt to strongarm other people into doing what they want; it's ridiculous. Bluntly, Yos wouldn't do it, because he's not an idiot, and if I was scumbuddy to anyone who tried to do something that, I'd probably bus them to kingdom come while yelling at them in the quicktopic. It's ludicrous.

I don't see what is at all questionable about that paragraph. That's roughly what I or any other competent player would have done as scum when they have access to daytalk; you act as a coordinated team, since that's the principle advantage you have as group scum.

[Raging Rabbit]

Elmo, that's 5 out of 6 players who aren't you that have you as one of their main suspects. I'd say it's claim time.

Incidentally, vollkan, who do you currently suspect? You had everyone alive other than Korts ranked at 50 and below in that list of yours.

[Raging Rabbit]

That's roughly what I or any other competent player would have done as scum when they have access to daytalk; you act as a coordinated team, since that's the principle advantage you have as group scum.

Yeah, but he was talking about Yos asking you to defend him and you implement that to a throwaway comment on vollkan being scum. I don't like the subtle attempt to throw attention elsewhere.

[Elmo]

I claim Cop. I got an innocent on BM Day 1, didn't manage to get anything in on Day 2, innocent on Raging Rabbit Day 3, and I just got a guilty on Vollkan. The crumbs are the X! on BM in my list, and my fairly obvious turnaround on Rabbit when I said I was sure he didn't bus Yos right after saying he was the 'odd one out' and not being very sure about him.

This is why I am 99% sure there's a mafia roleblocker, by the way; cop + doc in a game almost always means RB.

So, yeah. What I already said.

[destructor]

Elmo is lying.

There are three basic categories:
1. Instant actions: kills
2. Rest of day actions: block, protect
3. End of day actions: investigations

Investigations are resolved at the end of the day, so he couldn't have "just" gotten a guilty on vollkan and he put the X on BM before Day 1 ended.

Regardless of this, by elimination, Elmo makes the most sense as the scum-buddy of Yos and FL.

I think it's time for Korts to kill.

[Adel]

An alert player pointed out a mod error.

Cop

You are a Cop. By breaking police procedures and violating a person’s right to privacy, you can tell the difference between scum and town.

Once each day, you may PM me the name of one player and I will tell you (via PM and within 48 hours) if that player is innocent or guilty of being scum.

I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. I will deliver your investigation results by sending you a PM containing the quoted text of your action PM along with either "innocent" or "guilty" or (if your action is blocked) "no result".

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

Tracker

You are a Tracker. Each day you may PM the name of one player before the end of that day.

If that player targeted any other players during that period of day after I receive your PM, I will tell you (via PM at the end of the day) the names of those players targeted. If your action is blocked you will not be informed. I will acknowledge receipt of your action PM by quoting your PM back to you with no added text. I will deliver your investigation results by sending you a PM containing the quoted text of your action PM along with either "none" or the names of the players that your target targeted.

You win if only town-aligned players are alive at the end of the game.

this post therefor contains errors, corrections are made in red.

Role Pms have been sent in random order to prevent date/time confirmation of alignment. Once all role PMs have been opened I will unlock the thread and the game will start.

I'm not 100% familiar with Deep South. Do actions (kills, block, protect, etc...) occur when you receive them, or between the lynch scene and daybreak?

Both, depending upon the specific role.
Read the list of possible roles, and rule ^7. carefully.

There are three basic categories:
1. Instant actions: kills,

cop investigations

2. Rest of day actions: block, protect,

track

3. End of day actions:

investigations

receive tracker investigation results

The "Tracker" role is something of a hybrid of a "rest of day" action and an "end of day" action, all other roles fit neatly into a single category.

When there is a conflict between something I've posted and the specific wording of role PMs, the specific wording of role PMs takes precedence.