Mini 635: WOMAFIA - Forbiddanlight + Vagina-Haters win!

[Falcone]

So you are saying lets not talk about who is scummy and lynch LG because of the miller claim?

unvote:
vote: DBE

The point of this is to figure out (1) what is best if you had the role (2) if we believe the role and why (3) discuss further and see if anyone is scummy. Wait why do I need to explain this is common knoweledge.

The first sentence of that post is a blatant misrepresentation of Darla's post. She didn't suggest quicklynching Lord Gurgi or stopping discussion at all. I even think her stance on Lord Gurgi is more reasonable than that of the people who want to treat him as a confirmed townie.

Mod-editing in a vote count:

DarlaBlueeyes - 4 (nonny, xyzzy, farside, vivian darkblaam)

xyzzy - 1 (DarlaBlueEyes)
Mirth - 1 (falcone)
farside - 1 (Lord Gurgi)
nonny - 1 (Mariyta)
Mariyta - 1 (Mirth)

12 alive, 7 to lynch!

[FaerieLord]

No, treating him as a confirmed townie is not good

But lynching LG, who has looked townie thus far, because the claim is dubious, is even worse.

[Mirth]

Why not give Vivian the same grief y'all are giving Farside. She's guilty of the same thing: taking Darla's post out of context.

[Spacecase]

The question about the miller role? Well if thats the case I would probably lay low and play the pro-town side until i come under investigation which then i would claim miller role.... But thats just what I would do.

[Lord Gurgi]

The question about the miller role? Well if thats the case I would probably lay low and play the pro-town side until i come under investigation which then i would claim miller role.... But thats just what I would do.

Then you would be summarily lynched, or at least I would lynch you under those circumstances.

[nonny]

unvote

it was random and don't really see why there is the bandwagon. Fuller post coming once i re-read.

[Spacecase]

Lol well then i'm happy i'm not miller

[Spacecase]

My question is why does the role of miller pertain to me and why does it matter?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

because if LG is the miller he's stuck in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Mirth was trying to point this out by asking us what it is we would do in this situation.

Agreed with above claiming miller at L-1 is always a sure fire way to get hammered (personal experience xD) especially if theres a claimed cop thats been hot on your trail.

pure WIFOM, but to the same extent he could be getting his bluff in early. Although I am slighly more inclined to believe him, the WIFOM monster is all consuming.

[ThAdmiral]

@ treating him as confirmed town: He has a believable claim so I'm pretty happy to treat him as confirmed town. I'm not saying he

is

confirmed town - if there is reason for suspicion in the future then I will obviously look at gurgi again. But for now I am definitely not going to suspect him, which helps round down the people that I may suspect.

If you don't think it's a good idea you don't have to do it, but I am.

[farside22]

So you are saying lets not talk about who is scummy and lynch LG because of the miller claim?

unvote:
vote: DBE

The point of this is to figure out (1) what is best if you had the role (2) if we believe the role and why (3) discuss further and see if anyone is scummy. Wait why do I need to explain this is common knoweledge.

The first sentence of that post is a blatant misrepresentation of Darla's post. She didn't suggest quicklynching Lord Gurgi or stopping discussion at all. I even think her stance on Lord Gurgi is more reasonable than that of the people who want to treat him as a confirmed townie.

Mod-editing in a vote count:

DarlaBlueeyes - 4 (nonny, xyzzy, farside, vivian darkblaam)

xyzzy - 1 (DarlaBlueEyes)
Mirth - 1 (falcone)
farside - 1 (Lord Gurgi)
nonny - 1 (Mariyta)
Mariyta - 1 (Mirth)

12 alive, 7 to lynch!

Did you see anything in DBE's post that lead in any constructive matter what-so ever? Did she say anything useful or point anyone scummy in the post? Those are my issue's with what she said.

[Falcone]

It's true that Darla's post wasn't the most useful post imaginable at that point in the game, but I happen to agree with what she said.

My issue with your post is that you misrepresented what Darla said and voted her for it, starting a bandwagon on her. You made it seem like Darla was looking for an easy lynch of the claimed miller (Lord Gurgi), while that was clearly not what she was trying to do.

It's intresting that you now seem to backtrack and claim that you voted Darla just for making a useless post.

Since I'm happy overall with how Mirth has reacted to my accusations:

Unvote: Mirth
Vote: farside22

[Vivian Darkblaam]

Vivian, I'm not sure I understand the first part of your post. Clarify a bit please?

Falcone's post struck me as very odd. It had formatted headings and was written in very formal language. His accusations of you were largely based on not getting your jokes. The style behind it would have to be affected intentionally. A very serious player would use formal language and not get some jokes. A player who is

trying

to be very serious would use formal headings and get no jokes. I FOSed, because rigid seriousness of that type is sometimes used to hide scummy actions. (IMO, Vollkan does this all the time)

Reading the rest of Falcone's posts, I'm still not sure what to think. He's remained serious but minus the topic headings. I think I probably overreacted to a natural style.

And I think I'm accusing DBE on a different wavelength than Farside. I never thought the plan was to lynch LG here and now. I disagree with the notion of planning (orchestrating) the deadline. Also, DBE's phrasing that we should lynch LG if nobody else is

very

scummy. If we were going to plan ahead, the cutoff point should be

slightly

scummy.

[farside22]

Question:

With all the WIFOM on LG, It would seem somewhat logical that unless someone comes round even more scummy, that he would be the safest lynch for D1.

If he is lying, we hit scum, if not, he is only a miller, not a PR.

thoughts?

So you are saying lets not talk about who is scummy and lynch LG because of the miller claim?

unvote:
vote: DBE

The point of this is to figure out (1) what is best if you had the role (2) if we believe the role and why (3) discuss further and see if anyone is scummy. Wait why do I need to explain this is common knoweledge.

@Mirth: Going to the specialty shops for bra's is very, very expensive. Luckly for me at least I can still shop in store.

This is what I said. I questioned her further and voted her for not doing any of the 3 things that should be done in regards to LG's comments. Instead she is stating that LG should be lynched? Does she say when? Does she add anything. No that is my point in this post and I think you are missing everything I said. I did not back track my comments. My second post states things that should have been going on instead of her comment. I think you are reaching.

[farside22]

My second post states things that should have been going on instead of her comment

This should say: the second part of my post.

[Mirth]

Falcone, why are you satisfied with my reactions?

Mariyta, no reaction to my vote?

[farside22]

Why not give Vivian the same grief y'all are giving Farside. She's guilty of the same thing: taking Darla's post out of context.

I want an answer to this too. Plus I still don't see how you would think I was back peddling after reading through my post.

[Falcone]

Vivian

, I think my serious and formal posting style is caused partly by the fact that I'm a pretty serious guy and partly because I feel it's my duty in a mafia game to express my thoughts as clear as possible. Headings, underlinings and formal language can help me with that. If you check some of my completed games, you'll see I usually post like this.

Farside22

, the point is Darla already answered your Q1 ("What's the best course of action if you're a miller?") in #63 en #67 and your Q2 ("Do we believe Lord Gurgi's role claim?") in #43. So there was no point in her answering those questions again when she made the post you voted her for. It's true that Darla didn't contribute much to the discussion about who is suspicious, but she didn't do what you're accusing her of doing, i.e. trying to discourage discussion and lynch Lord Gurgi instead of someone who's more suspicious. It's not because she didn't explicitly mention that we shouldn't Lord Gurgi right now, that you can assume she did want to do that. Furthermore, in my opinion it was clear from what she said that she did not want to lynch Lord Gurgi immediately, but only in the unlikely event that no better lynch candidate is found during D1.

I didn’t find Vivian’s #82 as scummy as farside22’s #81 because Vivian didn’t misrepresent Darla as much as farside22 did.

Mirth

, I’m satisfied with your responses partly because I can accept your explanation that the comments I attacked you for were not completely serious, partly because my reasons for voting you weren’t that strong to begin with, and partly because I like the tone of your responses: you were eager to have me explain my vote, but not overdefensive or OMGUS-like.

[farside22]

Did DBE do #3 which is look for scummy players? No she did not. Her post was well if no one else is scummy we should lynch LG is a defeatist attitude. So no I still don't see me as back peddling.

[Mirth]

Falcone, what do you think of my current vote on Mariyta?

Spacecase, Xyzzy, what do you think of any of the current votes floating around?

[farside22]

Falcone, what do you think of my current vote on Mariyta?

Spacecase, Xyzzy, what do you think of any of the current votes floating around?

I know none of this is directed at me, but I get narrow minded when in a heated debate.
I saw your vote on Mariyta which I think is a valid point. Mariyta just doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. It's like pulling teeth getting some people to really talk. I notice Spacecase, xyzzy and ThAdmiral are realitively quiet about everything that is going on in the game. I am wondering with the way some of the votes are if people are paying attention and how many are still on the random vote phase?

[Mariyta]

Falcone, why are you satisfied with my reactions?

Mariyta, no reaction to my vote?

It's one vote. I usually get voted pretty early on in most of my games, so I've learned not to overreact.

[Mirth]

...And my vote stays. Since you are not responding to my reason for putting it there in the first place.

I also like how you're pointing out that you "learned not to overreact." Why so self conscious? What do you think would happen if you "overreacted"? What do you mean by "overreact?"

[Mariyta]

...And my vote stays. Since you are not responding to my reason for putting it there in the first place.

I also like how you're pointing out that you "learned not to overreact." Why so self conscious? What do you think would happen if you "overreacted"? What do you mean by "overreact?"

People would jump on me like they usually do, and then I'd get upset and either be replaced or just quit playing again. I'm trying not to do that this time around.

[Falcone]

Falcone, what do you think of my current vote on Mariyta?

I see where you're coming from with your vote, but I think it's more useful to judge everyone's contribution after a longer time has passed since the start of the game. There are many possible reasons why one could not have made an in-depth contribution after four RL days.

Farside22

, I still maintain you have changed your explanation for your vote for Darla since your original post.

Your original reason was that Darla didn’t want to talk about who’s scummy and wanted to lynch Lord Gurgi for claiming miller (#81).

Then you stated Darla’s post was scummy because it didn’t add anything to the conversation (#99).

Then you said you voted Darla for “not doing any of the 3 things that should be done in regards to LG's comments” (#113).

And after I pointed out that Darla in fact already did two of the three things you wanted her to do, you justified your vote by saying that she still didn’t do the third thing (“Look for scummy players” - #118). Looking for scummy players is very vague and general. You can’t judge if someone is seriously and sincerely hunting for scum from a single post, so I don’t think it’s reasonable to attack Darla for “not looking for scummy players” in one particular post. You also suddenly mention that Darla was being “defeatist”. Is that a new reason for suspecting Darla? How was Darla being defeatist? Is being defeatist scummy?