GeorgeBailey wrote:Subject: Normal Queue Thread (Players and Mods)
1x town 3-shot neapolitanGeorgeBailey wrote:/in to mod setup designed by Datisi
1x town lazy motion detector
1x town bodyguard neighbour
1x town macho neighbour
6x VT
vs
1x mafia backup neighbour
2x mafia goon
- all PTs will be open at all times
- confirmed 3v10
Could Datisi please also have access to the review thread?
GeorgeBailey's Mini Normal Review, October 2020
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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GeorgeBailey's Mini Normal Review, October 2020
Last edited by implosion on Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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At a glance, this probably needs a couple smidges more town power. Motion detector and bodyguard as a matter of course are not powerful roles. 3-shot neap is strong in this setup, but not quite enough. And the neighbors are slightly power-negative here just bc they befuddle the neapolitan a little.
Some ideas off the top of my head could be (not sure which of these if any or all are enough to/best to balance it but I'll let nsg say more):
-Inform the motion detector that scum have no active roles (probably not *too* risky because the existing town roles aren't confirmable anyway, but I think in the dynamic of this setup it could actually be interesting)
-Give the macho neighbor something to use. Even like, a checker could be interesting bc of interaction with the motion detector, but you could slot in a lot of different roles there.-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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ego
hello
i am back again with bodyguard neighbours and neapolitans in the same game
uhhh i saw a game that had a backup mason and i told georgebailey "what if there was a game with a backup neighbor" and he thought it was a great role and here we are
pedit: figured this was gonna maybe be slightly scumsided
honestly i think checker has become the default "town needs a bit more power, slap on a town checker"
i thinkkk i like the idea of an informed MD more, but i'll think about it after nsg guves thoughtsI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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oh whew, i thought the punishment would be
perma
i figured, i'm just saying i'm a fan of informed roles but also wanna wait for The Primary Reviewer to give thoughts first before making callsI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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nooo why did that go in the other line
why don't i proofreadI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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GeorgeBailey He/HimGeorgeBaileyHe/Him
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northsidegal Survivor
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yeah, it's probably scumsided. bodyguard and motion detector i consider to be pretty negligible power, so then the main town power comes from the neapolitan which has a lot of avenues to go wrong. like, if the neapolitan dies n1 or gets lynched d1 it's probably like a 95% scum win, which is probably not desirable.
i don't really see how a checker would boost town power all that much? if anything, it seems to me like it would just be weakening the motion detector. like, i don't see any role that really has any sort of synergy with checker, which i think might also mean that come massclaim people might not believe the claim, which would also hurt town.
i might even say that you could make the neighbors straight up into masons and that would leave the setup roughly balanced? doesn't really keep your original vision of backup neighbors though, and kind of eliminates the "scum inheriting" thing. i'm having a tough time thinking of additions to this that don't make the roles super complicated where the names stretch to a mile long, like lazy combined motion detector fruit vendor or something.
maybe you could make the MD into a lazy motion detector jailkeeper (not combined)?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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an interesting dynamic that i just thought of is to replace the motion detector with a traffic analyst while potentially also informing scum of the existence of a traffic analyst
this gives scum an incentive to hunt for the neighbors to kill them in order to grant one of their members "immunity" so to speak from the traffic analyst. (of course, it could also give them incentive to just kill the traffic analyst, but whatever)
you might consider it "gimmicky" but my first thought after thinking about that would be to expand the neighborhood aspect i.e. by making two scum backup neighbors and maybe by adding a third neighbor into the neighborhood. that makes scum getting in a better outcome with regards to dodging the TA, although it does make the game kind of swingy. i think it's interesting though, and i'm kind of just spitballing here.-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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i think i like the idea of swapping a motion detector with a traffic analyst, however i worry about the neapolitan and the traffic analyst racking up too many clears in the VTs in the first few days.
odd-night neapolitan and even-night traffic analyst maybe?I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i think that'd still be a little scumsided. there's a lot of anti-synergy between a bodyguard and odd/even night roles. of course, that could be by design because it's not a hugely fun interaction for basically anyone when a claimed PR lives an extra day due to a bodyguard protect, but regardless it still leaves town a little weakIn post 10, Datisi wrote:i think i like the idea of swapping a motion detector with a traffic analyst, however i worry about the neapolitan and the traffic analyst racking up too many clears in the VTs in the first few days.
odd-night neapolitan and even-night traffic analyst maybe?
how do you feel about sort of boosting power on both ends by making it unlimited neap + even night TA while informing scum that town has a TA?-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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thinking about something like this maybe...?In post 9, northsidegal wrote:you might consider it "gimmicky" but my first thought after thinking about that would be to expand the neighborhood aspect i.e. by making two scum backup neighbors and maybe by adding a third neighbor into the neighborhood. that makes scum getting in a better outcome with regards to dodging the TA, although it does make the game kind of swingy. i think it's interesting though, and i'm kind of just spitballing here.
1x town traffic analyst
1x town bodyguard neighbour
1x town macho neighbour
1x town even-night neapolitan neighbour
6x vt
vs
2x mafia backup neighbour
1x mafia informed (there is a town traffic analyst)I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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bump?I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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northsidegal Survivor
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sorry, had a busy week (or two...)
i still think that looks a little scumsided. both the traffic analyst and the neapolitan have kind of a large number of false positives, especially if scum manages to kill one of the neighbors early. i could also easily see a scenario in which the scum backup neighbors convince the TA that backup neighbors would still return true to traffic analysts, because "do backups of roles return positive to roles like gunsmith" is the kind of semi-esoteric normal game question that i think a lot of people tend to get confused on (including members of the NRG sometimes).
i think if you made it an unlimited neapolitan rather than even-night it would still be scumsided but not to the degree that i wouldn't pass it, so if you wanted to run a more scumsided game that'd be fine.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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and now that i think about it unlimited neap in the neighborhood with the bodyguard isn't evenallthat scumsided, maybe it'c closer to even than i get it credit for. in the past sometimes i've overlooked the potential power of neighborhoods with power roles in them, so if the neighbors in this game could trust each other enough and work out some kind of gambit or something like that then they might be able to make it work.-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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my experience with town/town neighbourhoods in normals is that they generally quickly trust each other and are willing to protect each other, though my sample size isn't the biggest.In post 15, northsidegal wrote:and now that i think about it unlimited neap in the neighborhood with the bodyguard isn't evenallthat scumsided, maybe it'c closer to even than i get it credit for. in the past sometimes i've overlooked the potential power of neighborhoods with power roles in them, so if the neighbors in this game could trust each other enough and work out some kind of gambit or something like that then they might be able to make it work.
anyway, my thinking with gating the neapolitan was that he has less false positives than the traffic analyst, since he will know not to check his neighbours. though looking at it now, it does feel a bit weak for town, since the backup neighbours are never a hard guilty to him... even-night neap into full neap is a passable setup?I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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northsidegal Survivor
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yeah, i think i'd pass it. ever since implosion embezzled all the money we were going to start that company with and left me to deal with the IRS i've felt it's only fair that i could pass games i'm slightly less sure aboutIn post 16, Datisi wrote:anyway, my thinking with gating the neapolitan was that he has less false positives than the traffic analyst, since he will know not to check his neighbours. though looking at it now, it does feel a bit weak for town, since the backup neighbours are never a hard guilty to him... even-night neap into full neap is a passable setup?
seriously though, i think a lot of it comes down to if the neighbors can work stuff out and work together, and to be honest i'm probably a little behind on the "how much do neighbors in normal games trust each other" meta. so i trust you when you say that they'll trust each other pretty quickly.-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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[note: sample size is 2, one of those games is over a year old, *and* i was scum in both of those games so perhaps i'm a bit biased in how much they actually trusted each other and how quickly oh god i don't want to be responsible for whatever horror this brings to mafiasc--]
awesome! will do role PMs when i wake up tomorrow, and will ping george to post his rulesetI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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northsidegal Survivor
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don't worry, it's a coin flip as toIn post 18, Datisi wrote:[note: sample size is 2, one of those games is over a year old, *and* i was scum in both of those games so perhaps i'm a bit biased in how much they actually trusted each other and how quickly oh god i don't want to be responsible for whatever horror this brings to mafiasc--]whenif this game becomes a trainwreck the reviewer or the mod will be blamed. 50% is pretty decent odds!-
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the reviewer = northsidegalIn post 19, northsidegal wrote:the reviewer or the mod
the mod = georgebailey
niceI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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1x town traffic analyst
1x town neapolitan neighbour
1x town bodyguard neighbour
1x town macho neighbour
6x vt
vs
2x mafia backup neighbour
1x mafia informed (there is a town traffic analyst)
Spoiler: role PMs
george is "busy" with "a job" or something so ruleset coming Soon™.I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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Rules
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northsidegal Survivor
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minor, but bodyguard should be "you will die instead" instead of just "you will die". would be a pretty hilarious role to just also die along with whoever was targeted if you pick correctly, maybe i should put that in the grand idea thread
macho should say that it cannot be protected from kills in any way rather than just doctors and bodyguards
apart from that role PMs seemed fine.
based on the role PMs you need to specify that daytalk is enabled by default in the rules, and you also need to include a sample VT role PM.-
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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err, i thought that part was covered in "target someone to protect them", but i'll edit that in to make it clear.
i took the macho description from the Normal section of the role: "This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. It negates the effects of a Doctor or Bodyguard protecting it, although both would still be seen as having visited a Macho role." though i'll obviously follow your ruling on it.
Spoiler: fixed role PMsI will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M
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