Mafiascum.net

I'm having trouble with large game speed. Catchup friday/saturday-ish.

In post 641, Thor665 wrote:

In post 637, PeregrineV wrote:And I explained the logic about all of it. If you want to continue to press that you do not understand what I am saying, then say so.

I literally just did.

In post 637, PeregrineV wrote:If you disagree, then say so (and I think you did).

That is also correct.

You do not understand what I am saying (the logic of why I said it).

You disagree with what I'm saying? Or do you disagree with the logic which you do not understand?

In post 641, Thor665 wrote:No, I meant that when I specifically said the word multiball. As I said.
I put it in context to show just how silly your raised statement is.
Now please address it.

So when you said

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

You meant:

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off [the existence] of any scum role that is not aligned with some other scum role is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

In that case, probably best to say so, since multiball is a fairly precise term used to indicate multiple teams, not just multiple non-town killing roles.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my silly raised statement.

In post 651, PeregrineV wrote:You do not understand what I am saying (the logic of why I said it).

You disagree with what I'm saying? Or do you disagree with the logic which you do not understand?

I have stated the logic as I understand it, and said that I disagreed with it and asked for clarification on the logic if such exists.
You are playing word games.

In post 652, PeregrineV wrote:So when you said

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

You meant:

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off [the existence] of any scum role that is not aligned with some other scum role is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

In that case, probably best to say so, since multiball is a fairly precise term used to indicate multiple teams, not just multiple non-town killing roles.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my silly raised statement.

Yes, that is what I meant and indicated it is also clearly what I meant when taken in context and you were asked to assess that claim and then address how it does or does not affect your read.

Your method of doing so was to repeat what I said to you.
Kind of shrug.
And then state that you're sticking to the claim.

I will take this to mean you find that insane as a possible interpretation of what I meant.
Please describe what YOU think I meant.

I would like to clarify this is about post 10 in a series of posts which was; "Pere, please explain why you think that was a potential scumtell"
To which his best answer has, thus far, been "well, as scum you wouldn't be likely to slip but you brought up multiball so if it's multiball you're scum...oh, yeah, some other people did too in ways that are different than your way"

More votes now, yeah?

Would you help me vote Aneninen tomorrow if I go with this today?

In post 610, Scripten wrote:(439). Overemphasis on my word choice (pedantry), the laughable position of a "solid null read" as contrast to my vote, (fishing for favor) and mentioning how my vote was on "the top wagon" (hyperbole) just to make sure their case looks stronger. Need I say more?

Just because a case is wordy doesn't mean it is right.

Says the one using "pedantry", "fishing for favor" and "hyperbole" to discount me.

Once again, I never cared about your wording. Go back and re-read to see if you can actually figure out what my issue was with your posts. I made it quite clear.
And yes, my null read did contrast your read on Cho, because I gave explanation of WHY I had a null read, which you did not do for any of your reads. (**HINT: THIS IS WHAT MY PROBLEM WAS**)
And the fact that your vote was on top wagon is just that: a fact.

In post 633, davesaz wrote:

In post 632, Thor665 wrote:
This is written by someone who is not paying attention to the issue or can't figure it out.
The conversation has NEVER been about whether it is or is not multiball.
You should read it again.
Then offer an opinion on the scumtells being advanced.

This is you not understanding that I fully understand the issue and am firmly stating that there are no scumtells involved in this discussion.

I think I agree with this post. This is feeling very TvT for me from a lack of scumtells.

In post 612, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.

What has Thor been saying? In your own words.

I'd also like this clarified, since it seemed directed at me but I don't actually understand what Thor comment it's referring to. Thor's address of Peregrine and I are two separate topics, so clumping them in together to say "[we're both] missing what Thor has been saying" seems like an attempt to buddy up with Thor.

In post 653, Thor665 wrote:

In post 651, PeregrineV wrote:You do not understand what I am saying (the logic of why I said it).

You disagree with what I'm saying? Or do you disagree with the logic which you do not understand?

I have stated the logic as I understand it, and said that I disagreed with it and asked for clarification on the logic if such exists.
You are playing word games.

No word games.
And no, the abosolute best way I can explain it I already have:

-I think that you saying that this game is obviously multiple mafia teams implies some sort of inside knowledge of the setup that you did not relate to the thread at the start of the game. Most commonly, this is through a scum role designation of specific mafia (Blue, Red, Mafia A, etc.), and less commonly through a town role (Mafia A cop, Red Mafia Cop, etc.).

In post 652, PeregrineV wrote:So when you said

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

You meant:

In post 261, Thor665 wrote:Well...first off [the existence] of any scum role that is not aligned with some other scum role is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

In that case, probably best to say so, since multiball is a fairly precise term used to indicate multiple teams, not just multiple non-town killing roles.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my silly raised statement.

Yes, that is what I meant and indicated it is also clearly what I meant when taken in context and you were asked to assess that claim and then address how it does or does not affect your read.

As I've said, a safe assumption that an SK exists is also an eyebrow raising statement, but since it is, IMO, more likely, less so than your actual statement.

Your method of doing so was to repeat what I said to you.
Kind of shrug.
And then state that you're sticking to the claim.

I will take this to mean you find that insane as a possible interpretation of what I meant.
Please describe what YOU think I meant.

I see how that could have been an interpretation of what you said. In which case,

I'm not sure what the hell you were saying to Nero- maybe telling him he CAN be scum because it's a safe assumption that there is more than one non-town faction. In which case, not sure why you would think so, and not sure of your purpose in telling him that.

In post 658, Izariael wrote:

In post 612, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.

What has Thor been saying? In your own words.

I'd also like this clarified, since it seemed directed at me but I don't actually understand what Thor comment it's referring to. Thor's address of Peregrine and I are two separate topics, so clumping them in together to say "[we're both] missing what Thor has been saying" seems like an attempt to buddy up with Thor.

You saw the reactions to the Scripten vote. What do you think of them (the reactions)?

In post 643, Thor665 wrote:Dave is a scum read now too.

And I disagree with this post. It seems Thor scumreads anyone who doesn't agree with his line of thinking. That's good to note so I can disregard his reads for the rest of the game.

@661- That will be interesting.

Back.

As for the multiball question (from about Thor's 557 but it appeared before, eg. in PeregrineV's 501). I don't get it at all why assuming a multiball setup is a tell at all. Because of the sheer size of the game a multiball has a considerable possibilitiy. If there were about 13 players, I'd call it a tell but with 21 players...?
However, @PeregrineV, . Why Thor is scummy? Why not the others? Because Thor started to build up a wagon against you?

Thor, 559 – Can you explain that claim for me?

Boonskiies, 562 – Whut?! Are you reading the game at all? 572 – Uhhhh. Regardless of your alignment you shouldn't have said that.

Scripten, 565 – Did you get the claim Thor had talked about? If so, why aren't you sheeping? If not, why was that post good?

Axel, 568 – Wait-oh... I think I skimmed over this from Scripten: – I'm also willing to hear an answer, Scripten! (I've read 587 but that was very weak.)

Going on soon.

At this point, the multiball discussion is clogging up the DP, and I'm not wanting to wade through the trenches to find scumtells that supposedly exist in it that I don't currently see.

Let it be noted that I appreciate any attempts here to turn the conversation elsewhere.

In post 660, PeregrineV wrote:You saw the reactions to the Scripten vote. What do you think of them (the reactions)?

Which Scripten vote? Yours or mine? I think there were different reactions to each.

Scripten's reaction to both votes hasn't done anything so far to alleviate a scumread on him, and has probably made it stronger since I'm currently feeling no inclination to move my vote. His reaction is not one that I'd anticipate from town who just got voted.
Thor's reaction to your vote wasn't unwarranted, which I would be tempted to townread, but his recent multiball exchange with you is making it hard to establish a townread or scumread on him. I didn't care much for his reaction to my vote though. Not only did he miss the reason for my vote, but then he spits on my ability to form reads. It's either gross town or gross scum. Either way, it's icky play.

I have to jolt over to work, but there were a couple of other players that I'd townread for their reactions, I just need time to find the posts in question. I'll get to this later.

In post 658, Izariael wrote:

In post 612, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.

What has Thor been saying? In your own words.

I'd also like this clarified, since it seemed directed at me but I don't actually understand what Thor comment it's referring to. Thor's address of Peregrine and I are two separate topics, so clumping them in together to say "[we're both] missing what Thor has been saying" seems like an attempt to buddy up with Thor.

Ah right. I'd forgotten about that.

My point was that the discussion was centering on an argument over whether or not this game was multiball on one side, while the other side was examining the motivations behind the discussion. PeregrineV was accusing Thor of being scum for bringing up multiball, but Thor was not claiming that PeregrineV was scummy because he disagreed. There was this cognitive dissonance between what Thor was saying and what everyone else involved seemed to be hearing. He's since explained this better than I can. (After all, I'm not in his head.)

I did understand. My vote is on PeregrineV right now, if you have not noticed. What was weak about my explanation?

Thor engaged my post callng the multiball-related scumtells into question, where PeregrineV is just ignoring me.

While I find it distasteful that Thor focused more on the terminology and less on the content behind my posts, I can much more easily see that being town than actively avoiding the whole issue. I also find it pretty scummy that PeregrineV would focus on only Thor's mention as scummy, where at least two others have posted about roles.. One of which was before Thor.

VOTE: PeregrineV

In post 601, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 590, Thor665 wrote:

In post 126, Goofyd00d wrote:Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.

Here's another mention of multiball that didn't bother Pere.

Could be Goofy is scum.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH BLAT.
So, it seems that everyone has got scumread by you who has, had, will have metioned multiball. You know what? It's possible that we have a multiball setup here. Go on, call me scum too!

@Goodmorning. You're talking with PeregrineV. What's your read on him?

In post 623, T S O wrote:I think you're definitely winning the argument, as you usually do - but I'm still not remotely sold on Pere-scum. I have been trying to get Aneninen-wagon on track, but everyone is busy voting your wagon. It's quite sad.

There may be a possible answer for the failure of your wagon. Thor isn't winning because he's Thor – he provided a against PeregrineV. (And many of us have our own reasons for being on that wagon, regardless of Thor.) So far you've had no real case against me. Therefore keeping asking others for scumreading me is not working. Of course, if someone provided a case you'd eagerly parrot that, I suppose.
Focusing on one single player doesn't help the town at all – therefore, my scumread on you is getting stronger and stronger.

In post 626, T S O wrote:I mean, coming from my own perspective, when someone aggressively attacks me for what I perceive to be very little, I'm always going to kick back at them.

So. This means that you attack everyone who's scumreading you, doesn't it? Or at least, I can't really imagine a scumread on you which you'd "percieve big enough".


Davesaz, 629 and others – The conversation between Thor and PeregrineV is definitely not a setup speculation.

Garmmrn, 646 – I'll ignore your vote until you provide any reasons for it. I don't think you're surprised now.

Scripten, 666 – Ignore that part, please. When I posted the previous part of my catch-up I haven't read the posts of the last 3 pages.

In post 613, PeregrineV wrote:Tunneling is an extremely effective scum tactic used to avoid 90% of the rest of the players. The fact that 50% of your posts here are Csar tunnels is in contrast to the last memorable game with you, in which your town play was easily recognizable.

Assume I take you at your word that Grayfoxx is now a townread for you after all that, what's next on the goodmorning agenda?

I agree tunneling is a thing that can be a useful Scum tactic.
The point I am trying to make is that that game is from a year and a half ago.

Actually I went and reread and most of my D1 posting was focused on joels and AA9, so apparently excessive focus on a limited number of people isn't outside the pale for old me either.

Next on the agenda, as I said to Garmr, is trying to sort the people I've found uncomfortable. Right now I'm most interested in Thor, you, and Boonskiies. Since we're talking, that's probably where I'll go next. I'm getting quite a lot off this multiball bit though, so that's good.

Then I'll be looking at the people who've made me uncomfortable less recently (or more recently, if that happens) and the low posters. People like Tier and Anen will probably just get read without too much effort from me.

And at some point we'll see where this reaction test goes, if anywhere. That could take a while though.

Uncomfortable list now includes Izariael.

In post 668, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. You're talking with PeregrineV. What's your read on him?

I'm still working on that.

In post 655, T S O wrote:Would you help me vote Aneninen tomorrow if I go with this today?

Maybe. Maybe not.
If I have to buy your vote with that sort of weak promise then I don't want it.

In post 659, PeregrineV wrote:I'm not sure what the hell you were saying to Nero- maybe telling him he CAN be scum because it's a safe assumption that there is more than one non-town faction. In which case, not sure why you would think so, and not sure of your purpose in telling him that.

This post pretty much encapsulates the scum case on you.

I welcome anyone to go back to what I was saying to Nero and manage to get this info from the exchange.

I do not believe I have ever used the 'you're better than this' tell.
But you're better than this Pere. It's screwy. And you're acting like you're up to snuff, which makes it scummy.

In post 669, goodmorning wrote:I'm getting quite a lot off this multiball bit though, so that's good.

At least you're able to admit it's active scumhunting happening - half the player list hasn't figured that out yet.

In post 670, Thor665 wrote:

In post 655, T S O wrote:Would you help me vote Aneninen tomorrow if I go with this today?

Maybe. Maybe not.
If I have to buy your vote with that sort of weak promise then I don't want it.

cool beans.

In post 668, Aneninen wrote:
Garmmrn, 646 – I'll ignore your vote until you provide any reasons for it. I don't think you're surprised now.

Maybe you should check my iso and you would find the reasons because I did put some of my thoughts out on you.