Mafiascum.net

Hate when that happens...

If Csareo is being Csareo and doing the exact same thing as that game you linked and he was town, why is it a null to you?

Airport WiFi phone post. Got a 5 hour flight ahead of me, I'll try to wget all the pages and read up on the plane.

lol @ people taking anything I've posted until now seriously. Is supersaint even normal?

In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.

You don't think the way people focus on him and what they say is indicative?

@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?

@Toby: You're right I should have examined his other games too – but I'm too tired for reading more Csareo posts today.
(However, I took a look on all of them and I didn't find an example for a finished game which he was scum in. Also, I strongly dislike the fact that it seems that he tends to replace out of games.)

@Goodmorning: Well, the players' reaction might be informative. However, it's a strange kind of filter thought that we should read the game and I'm unable to do it right now. I started catching up at 23:30 or so (I don't remember) and it's 0:45 now...

In post 228, goodmorning wrote:

In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.

You don't think the way people focus on him and what they say is indicative?

@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I was on Vacation with Limited Access for the last week? Did you miss the part where I'm going to catch up on 10 pages on the plane? How about you cut me some slack, OK Chief?

Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.

In post 218, goodmorning wrote:
"If you only answer my questions I'll surely unvote you." If that's not appeasing I don't know what is.

I feel kind of frustrated because there are certain players who look scummy to me, but I'm met with all kinds of resistance when I push that lynch.
It happened in another game, where I was very sure someone was scum, but it was like talking to a brick wall trying to get my point across.
All it did is make me look scummier and him look townier.
Does that help you understand why I might be trying to get off the TSO wagon?

Explain your read on Nero.

Actually, it comes from the same pattern I always see scum fall into. Early humor and misdirection rather than scum hunting.
It kind of looks like that's NeroCain's meta,IE, being a goofball, but that's one of my red lights. Other things that had me alarmed.

So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" but his wagon went rather fast and that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.

If he's town then yes.

Remind me of your read on him.

It's as light as you would expect a 7 post read to be.

Explain your read on TSO.

- Humor and Misdirection
- Meta Change
- The interaction where he showers me in compliments until you guy's don't
- RVS voting me while also giving me a compliment
- Keeping RVS vote on me after calling me town about a dozen times after
- Refusing to answer ^
- How others joined my wagon when it became obvious TSO slipped on my meta
- Look at these two post, three posts apart

But here he's just showing his ability to scumhunt in a mediocre fashion, whereas there he was actively justifying any scummy actions that he did?

Idiocy confirmed!

- He actually keeps up with the VI gambit unnecessarily for several posts
- Thor Votes TSO and says he'll vig me (this needs more looking into)
- Refusing to answer my questions and being anti-town

He kept affirming with others that I was being "retarded" and an "idiot", but couldn't back up an example where a question seemed idiotic.
I think the whole treatment was abusive and a gambit to be town read. Apparently it was in the cool to be calling Csareo a moron while refusing to answer his question.

PEdit: Sweetheart, I'm not sure if you were reading or not, but I was actually the one calling you town.

You''re right, and I falsely implicated that you thought I was scum. You never even had a vote on me.

Explain why you would unvote a scumread just for answering questions.

Because I wanted off the TSO wagon as soon as possible.

P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.[/quote]

Is anyone else alarmed how Aneinen keeps using me as an excuse in all his posts?
Maybe it is best if I'm vigged. Scum will use me as a wall for the rest of the game anyway.

In post 226, TobyLoby wrote:If Csareo is being Csareo and doing the exact same thing as that game you linked and he was town, why is it a null to you?

I'm also interested in hearing the answer to this.

In post 223, Aneninen wrote:@Those who're scumreading them: what's the case against TSO?

I agree with Csareo that it is odd that TSO left his vote on him while defending him. It shows a disconnect between action and vote that I find worthy of a vote.

@Csareo - welcome to where I was pages ago. I agree with you, you should be vigged.

@TSO

That is not my intention. I'm trying to be respectful and understanding while asking you questions.
It isn't me who's blowing things out of proportion. I am curious, on why you think we're in some sort of fight?

Can you show me the accusation or illogical question you have in mind?

TSO, is your RVS vote now a serious vote?

In post 209, TobyLoby wrote:I don't get it. You first insinuate Csareo may be scummy, but then you follow it up by insinuating that you're not voting for him because the wagon (which means it looks scummy). So you follow this up by voting someone not on the wagon you just insinuated was scummy and then playing iffys on Csareo's alignment.

None of that makes sense

A wagon on a town player going fast is an excellent indication of that player being town and scum piling on. + just 'cause a wagon is scum lead it doesn't mean all the scum are on it. So why are you feigning ignorance here? Also flipping your mind on someone is in no way alignment indicative.

In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.

feel free to explain.

In post 214, Egg wrote:Nero, why Toby?

I hate alts and I want them all dead

but also mostly gut. I saw her 171 and didn't really like it so I clicked on her ISO and she's not really doing anything and was kinda active lurking so hey, I figured I'd vote that and see what happened.

In post 226, TobyLoby wrote:If Csareo is being Csareo and doing the exact same thing as that game you linked and he was town, why is it a null to you?

Even though this wasn't meant for me, I fell I may be able to explain, from my point of view why it is a null.

Personally I don't allow meta to give me a town read, anyone can stick to their town meta as scum. It's when people break their meta that it gives a scum read.

In post 230, Muffin wrote:

In post 228, goodmorning wrote:@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I was on Vacation with Limited Access for the last week? Did you miss the part where I'm going to catch up on 10 pages on the plane? How about you cut me some slack, OK Chief?

Every time you post and don't say anything it makes the game one post longer and more daunting, which makes cute baby animals cry.
I wish you a fair amount of luck in your catchup. I think it might be needed the way this game is going.

In post 232, Csareo wrote:Does that help you understand why I might be trying to get off the TSO wagon?

So basically you're concerned that it's making you look bad?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

explaining Nero snipped and that

So you're scumreading him because he makes jokes? I don't think he's directing anyone anywhere in particular.

- Humor and Misdirection

I really don't see TSO either being humourous or attempting to direct conversation.

- Meta Change

How many games have you played with TSO? Because as far as I can tell I've played in 6 at least with him, not counting any games where either of us was in hydra.
I know a fair amount about his meta and the way it's developed, particularly this new slightly less fucks given style (which I like a bit better than the somewhat abrasive TSO of yesteryear).
I'm not sure whether you do.

- The interaction where he showers me in compliments until you guy's don't

I don't think that happened; or, if it had, that it would be alignment-indicative.

- RVS voting me while also giving me a compliment

1) not sure that was meant as a compliment
2) that's kind of what happens when you RV. The number of times I've randomly voted someone with a "HIIIII" or an alarmingly cheery smiley is far greater than the number of times I've yelled something like "SCUM OMG" or "DEATH TO THE WEST" or something.

- Keeping RVS vote on me after calling me town about a dozen times after

This did happen, but why do you find it scummy?

- Refusing to answer ^

Refusing to answer anything is never a scumtell.

- How others joined my wagon when it became obvious TSO slipped on my meta

How is others joining your wagon indicative of TSO-Scum?

- He actually keeps up with the VI gambit unnecessarily for several posts

I don't think that was a gambit and I don't think he found it unnecessary.

- Thor Votes TSO and says he'll vig me (this needs more looking into)

But what does that have to do with TSO being Scum??

- Refusing to answer my questions and being anti-town

Being anti-Town is also not a scumtell.

P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.

You said you had a read on me of some sort. I'd like to see it explained, yeah?

^The above will all be answered tomorrow.
Bit tired now.

In post 231, TobyLoby wrote:Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.

Having thought about this question (I woke up about an hour ago) I must admit, my null-read is based upon the assumption that a scum!Csareo wouldn't have a very different gameplay. (I didn't find any games which he was surely scum in.) However, in Mini#1601 (before replaced into his slot on Day1) he had done more vote and read-flipping than here. We must remember this, though this may be a sing of a kind of improvement of his gameplay.

@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

@Nero. Your case explained in your latest post is weak. Toby isn't producing less content than many other players. I've just ISO-ed her.

In post 7, TobyLoby wrote:/confirm

In post 134, TobyLoby wrote:What do you think of Csareo's game play here so far, Aneninen?

goodmorning, do you think Csareo is scummy, maybe townie, or null? I'm getting an everything from you.

In post 135, TobyLoby wrote:I don't think Boons anything is obvious.

In post 168, TobyLoby wrote:Egg, soon.

In post 152, T S O wrote:There were no productive wagons at the time - the only thing I did/felt like doing was mildly ripping the piss out of you.

this did not happen during that time.

is your vote on csareo for real now? you didn't do the "MY RVS VOTE IS SERIOUS NOW" neon blinking lights indicator.

In post 171, TobyLoby wrote:Csareo, you're the meta TSO researcher. You tell us.

Wich of these posts are content?

There are 209, 212, 220 and the posts about questioning me. In my opinion, asking questions =/= producing no content.

In post 244, Aneninen wrote:There are 209, 212, 220 and the posts about questioning me

I specifically stated that my ISO read was on her pre-171 posts and thus 209, 212 and 220 did not exist yet.

In post 244, Aneninen wrote:In my opinion, asking questions =/= producing no content.

Asking questions in and of itself is null 'cause both alignments can and will do it. Do you think her questions have moved the gamestate along?

1st part: okay.
2nd part: I've never said that it's a towntell. On the other hand, questioning me made me re-check my previous game with Csareo and examine his interactions with TSO. So, the answer for your question is yes.

In post 232, Csareo wrote:It kind of looks like that's NeroCain's meta,IE, being a goofball, but that's one of my red lights

ok but if its my meta then why is it scummy?

In post 237, Nero Cain wrote:A wagon on a town player going fast is an excellent indication of that player being town and scum piling on. + just 'cause a wagon is scum lead it doesn't mean all the scum are on it. So why are you feigning ignorance here? Also flipping your mind on someone is in no way alignment indicative.

You are using a hypothetical. Let's talk about what is happening in this game right now. Are you town reading Csareo? I didn't say you said all scum were on the Csareo wagon anywhere. If you think the wagon on Csareo is scum lead, who do you think is leading it then and why?

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He should know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

What about these actions do you find disturbing? To be clear, does disturbing = scummy? When you say T S O is putting too much effort into his conversations with Csareo, what do you mean?

Csareo, Csareo, Csareo!