Open 30 - Fire and Ice (Game Over!) - before 470

[LoudmouthLee]

Bah. She's a necessary lynch. I would much rather lynch Mneme, and I want to be on record feeling that way.

Unvote, Vote: Autumn

[somestrangeflea]

That's a lynch isn't it?

[Guardian]

Official Vote Count #15 -- End of Day VC

AutumnEvenings[5](mneme, Mert, Stewie, MrBuddyLee, LoudmouthLee)

mneme[2](AutumnEvenings, Crub)

Not Voting[1] (somestrangeflea)

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch -- AutumnEvenings was lynched!


...

With all the

Fire Mafia

dead, today you were searching for one of the two remaining members of the

Ice Mafia

.

The day was in some ways tense, some ways lackadaisical, but in the end five of you got together and decided that AutumnEvenings was the one who had to go.

You gathered around her, amidst her screamed protests. "That goat was lying!" "I must have been doctor protected!" "I had

such

a nice avatar, and the new one is awesome too!"

Alas, you did not heed her pleas.

You back her towards the pit, and push her in. As you see her falling into dark eternity, you get second thoughts. "Maybe she wasn't scum?" "Oh well." "She was kind of annoying anyways."

As you turn away from the pit, one of you yells, drawing your attention back to the black hole. Look -- she's, she's -- turning into

Ice

! Indeed,

AutumnEvenings

,

Ice Mafia

is completely frozen by the time she fades from your view, and you all take a deep sigh of relief -- you know that there is only one scum among you. You are somewhat disturbed when you hear a cracking sound below you -- it almost sounds as if her frozen body hit the stone pit wall and snapped in half -- but that is neither here nor there...

You go to bed, quite proud of you town's ability to ward off scum. Sweet dreams, all!

Well, except one of you. There is one member of the

Ice Mafia

left who may freeze one of you tonight.

The sun will rise more or less

exactly

30 hours

from now

. This is my discretion; no players in the game are V/LA, the mafia has no one to talk with, and the worst that could possibly happen is a randomized kill. If any players have a problem with this, PM me and let me know. I may consider moving the deadline back, but this makes sense to me.

All choices not in by the deadline will be a no-choice, or randomized! You may change your choice after submitting it, but be sure to have a choice in by that time! Sleep well!

[Guardian]

You wake up, and head towards the center of town. There are six of you there, as expected... one of you was surely frozen during the night.

With a nervous feeling in the pit of your stomach, you look around, counting off your friends. All are there, except one...

You realize that

MrBuddyLee

is absent. Sure that the last member of the

Ice Mafia

did not commit suicide, you assume correctly that MrBuddyLee was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Remembering the blood curdling expression on Sefer's face, you can't bear to go to MrBuddyLee's hut, and instead assume that he is there,

frozen solid

.

With your good friend gone, you have even more resolve to find the fourth and final scum, the last member of the

Ice Mafia

.

With 6 of you alive, it will take 4 to lynch. Your

deadline is two weeks and two hours from now

. Lynch the scum!

[somestrangeflea]

Well, I can't help but feel slightly surprised by AE's scumness, but I feel good about this. There's only one scum left, and were still a mislynch (and a no-lynch, if we so choose) away from LyLo, which should be more than enough time to catch the scum!

Expect a player-by-player tomorrow, because I'm much too tired to do one now.

[somestrangeflea]

• Crub - I can't help getting a slight scumvibe for Crub's defence of AE. The tone of the posts seemed like "We shouldn't
  really
  pay attention to what Vendagoat said"

  I don't see why there should be much debate about who Glork protected night 1. As long as we agree that there was a chance he protected AE it doesn't have any bearing on AE's scummyness other than to say that theres a chance AE is either scum or town.

  This post stood out for me as one of those posts. Of course this is just analysis of tone, so I'm assuming that other people will have different opinions on it.
• LML - I have a very slight townvibe off LML. He's made clear his suspicions of mneme, which I agree with, and I can see the majority of his points of view.
• Mert - I'm not getting very many scumvibes at all, simply because of good analyses and the like.
• mneme - There's something very unsettling about this:

  Therefore, vote: Vendagoat. Hey, goat -- who'd you try to kill last night? Maybe they're Ice!

  There's just something suspicious about someone asking someone a question, then them come out scum and answer it. There's something very weird about that, especially since it turned out to be true. I don't really think that mneme's quickvote can actually be classed as a quickvote because, from mneme's perspective, it would have been a normal vote, at the time.
• Stewie - Gets minor scumpoints simply for having the lowest postcount. The AE quickvote still unsettles me, but it had more rationale that mneme's initial vote, so I'm feeling better about Stewie's

A general question to the town. I agree with Stewie's earlier idea of an eventual no-lynch to bring the playercount to an odd number. What are your thoughts on this?

[Crub]

Yep I feel real bad about my defense of AE It was just bad judgment on my part.

[Stewie]

A general question to the town. I agree with Stewie's earlier idea of an eventual no-lynch to bring the playercount to an odd number. What are your thoughts on this?

Just to add to that, I think we should leave it to the last possible moment, so that there's more people discussing who to lynch.

[LoudmouthLee]

• Crub - I can't help getting a slight scumvibe for Crub's defence of AE. The tone of the posts seemed like "We shouldn't
  really
  pay attention to what Vendagoat said"

  I don't see why there should be much debate about who Glork protected night 1. As long as we agree that there was a chance he protected AE it doesn't have any bearing on AE's scummyness other than to say that theres a chance AE is either scum or town.

  This post stood out for me as one of those posts. Of course this is just analysis of tone, so I'm assuming that other people will have different opinions on it.
• LML - I have a very slight townvibe off LML. He's made clear his suspicions of mneme, which I agree with, and I can see the majority of his points of view.
• Mert - I'm not getting very many scumvibes at all, simply because of good analyses and the like.
• mneme - There's something very unsettling about this:

  Therefore, vote: Vendagoat. Hey, goat -- who'd you try to kill last night? Maybe they're Ice!

  There's just something suspicious about someone asking someone a question, then them come out scum and answer it. There's something very weird about that, especially since it turned out to be true. I don't really think that mneme's quickvote can actually be classed as a quickvote because, from mneme's perspective, it would have been a normal vote, at the time.
• Stewie - Gets minor scumpoints simply for having the lowest postcount. The AE quickvote still unsettles me, but it had more rationale that mneme's initial vote, so I'm feeling better about Stewie's

A general question to the town. I agree with Stewie's earlier idea of an eventual no-lynch to bring the playercount to an odd number. What are your thoughts on this?

I happen to agree with your top two people. I would love a Mneme lynch today.

[LoudmouthLee]

Since we have little to say right now...

Vote: Mneme

[Crub]

LML do you think that mneme's play yesterday of pushing for the lynch of AE was a distancing move? Do you think AE's vote on mneme yesterday was likewise? I don't know if scum would be that forward in their distancing.

To be honest I'm more suspicious of you.
My problem is I don't know whether a scum partner would come out with that "STOP STOP STOP" post at the start of yesterday.
Other than that you posted multiple times that we should lynch someone else but always kept your options open without making it look like it was a big defense of AE. "This does not mean AE is not scum" also there was a bit of minor distancing between you 2. A three post mini argument with AE fos'ing you. Also I'm curious why you felt the need to hammer AE an hour before deadline?

vote:LML

[LoudmouthLee]

LML do you think that mneme's play yesterday of pushing for the lynch of AE was a distancing move? Do you think AE's vote on mneme yesterday was likewise? I don't know if scum would be that forward in their distancing.

To be honest I'm more suspicious of you.
My problem is I don't know whether a scum partner would come out with that "STOP STOP STOP" post at the start of yesterday.
Other than that you posted multiple times that we should lynch someone else but always kept your options open without making it look like it was a big defense of AE. "This does not mean AE is not scum" also there was a bit of minor distancing between you 2. A three post mini argument with AE fos'ing you. Also I'm curious why you felt the need to hammer AE an hour before deadline?

vote:LML

That's funny, because you're on my "scum list" too.

I didn't want a quicklynch yesterday. First and foremost.

#1) It would have been VERY easy for scum to just hop on that bandwagon and look to quicklynch AE. It makes talking end, and gives the town lack of useful information.

I gave the town the opportunity to think of other ways to go. Especially with the following facts...

Mneme asked Glork NOT to say who he protected. That is still a MAJOR sticking point. With Venda's comments, AE was going to be lynched. It didn't matter if it were yesterday or today. You gain valuable information by looking at voting patterns.

I firmly believe, now that AE is shown as scum (and my scum playstyle, BTW, is to absolutely throw my partner under the bus... as is the PROPER play there), I am looking very closely and Mneme and Stewie, the two who jumped out of the gate to vote AE so quickly. My defense (if you call it that) of AE was on the WIFOM basis that Glork protected her (which I *still* think he did.) The point is moot.

I was on the wagon as the lynching vote. I disliked the speed that the AE wagon was growing (especially with the two opening posts as votes.) Any mafia player worth his skin would have acted in accordance with the way I did. We need, as the town, to weigh all possibilities.

I said that AE needs to be lynched, but I was unsure if yesterday was the day.

That said, I still like Mneme over Crub and Stewie. The Crub idea works since Crub is a newbie and may not know of distancing, although I'm sure (metagame) that AE would have told Crub to bus her.

I like my Mneme vote, and would possibly go for a Stewie vote.

[Crub]

LML do you think that mneme's play yesterday of pushing for the lynch of AE was a distancing move? Do you think AE's vote on mneme yesterday was likewise? I don't know if scum would be that forward in their distancing.

[LoudmouthLee]

I firmly believe, now that AE is shown as scum (and my scum playstyle, BTW, is to absolutely throw my partner under the bus... as is the PROPER play there), I am looking very closely and Mneme and Stewie, the two who jumped out of the gate to vote AE so quickly.

[Stewie]

I firmly believe, now that AE is shown as scum (and my scum playstyle, BTW, is to absolutely throw my partner under the bus... as is the PROPER play there), I am looking very closely and Mneme and Stewie, the two who jumped out of the gate to vote AE so quickly.

You, on the other hand, took your time.

[mneme]

First, defense:

My play's been fairly consistent. Day 1, I replaced in late, and waffled about finding my feet. Day 2, I did some analysis of day 1, and independantly found Vendagoat as scum, then talked him into revealing his kill, mostly as a probing move against a probable newbie scum that happened to work (ssf: what's suspcious about this? Do you think I was cheating?). I also waffled on Glork revealiong (waffled. Not "asked him not to reveal". Read the damned post). Day three, I latched onto Autumn's obvious scumminess and pushed as hard as I could to get her lynched. And argued for less info, not more -- as while I generally think info favors the town, this is much less true in a game with one functional mafia left.

I can't bounce back and forth right now (posting from a cellphone -- I'm finally on a subway heading home), but from memory, the pbp would be:

LML: Probably town. IIRC, he pointed out Autumn as possible scum before anybody else did -- pushing the point with Glork based on Vendagoat's not-really-an-OMGUS vote. Since this likely would have gotten Autumn lynched even if Vendagoat hadn't imploded (certainly, I was planning on pushing her on day 3 based on this even without the confirmation).

Crub: A big WIFOM. Pushback on Autumn (but would he have done that if he'd known she was scum? maybe...), and I found his day 1 play scummy for some reason.

SSF: not a lot there -- was he for or against the Autumn wagon? (or neither?) Went after the easy attack (me) today. Craplogic/facts in his PBP give me a bad vibe. But I need to reread him.

Mert: I got nothing.

Stewie: I find the quickvote a town sign -- Autumn was the obvious lynch and probable scum, and the town gained nothing from discussion.

Re no lynch: I want to keep things open whether we'll do it today or tomorrow. Mind, the same logic applies to info before a no lynch as to info before a forced kill -- but we've had enough info today already that I don't see much harm in posting.

[LoudmouthLee]

And argued for less info, not more -- as while I generally think info favors the town, this is much less true in a game with one functional mafia left.

Why is that? Everyone left is a townie or Ice Scum. This makes no sense.

[Guardian]

Posting in all threads: V/LA until Monday. Good luck without me.
---

Mert and mneme were prodded today, I don't think anyone else needs one, I think you are fine without a vote counter for the moment, try not to break anything while I'm gone.

See you in a few days .

[Mert]

I was prodded, it's true. I've had a very hectic few days which has now come to an end. I'm about to head off to work but I am off work until Tuesday after today so expect a lot more content from me very soon. Sorry for being MIA for a few days though

[Crub]

unvote

I think Stewie is better lynch than mneme today just because the distancing that went on between Stewie and AE yesterday was far more subtle, than mneme's push/AE's vote. I don't think scum would want to be that outspoken. Yes I now understand that the right play for scum yesterday would have been to bus AE, but knowing that AE was going to be lynched, wouldn't scum not want to have drawn too much attention to themselves?

[mneme]

Why is that? Everyone left is a townie or Ice Scum. This makes no sense.

Untrue. Townies are not commodities.

The only info we (ie, the town) can get are town tells and scumtells -- we can't get connection info because there are no connections left.

By the same token, scum are out of the role hunting stage, as the town has no roles left -- but getting a full idea of the political map can allow them to influence it by killing off dangerous political opponents.

This might rebound, of course, but if we rely on this, we can get WIFOMed to death easily -- so on a metagame level, it's pretty good.

[mneme]

unvote

I think Stewie is better lynch than mneme today

False dualism, anyone?

[Crub]

wtf is a false dualism?

[mneme]

I and Stewie are not the only lynch candidates for today. We're not even the best -- I'd likely have been a lot less pushy on a bus (as I'd have been -fine- with us lynching someone else and, *darn*, entering lylo today), and Stewie pushed AE multiple times, including today.

Ok, I've reread much of day 2, which is when most of the more interesting things happened.

Interesting stuff (from my perspective):

Stewie voted AE for most of day 1.
Mert pushed AE (if we found Fire among crub & vendagoat).
LML pushed AE fairly extensively on day 2. Defended her for a while on day 3.
Somestrangeflea: has been pretty scummy -- but CTD posted a lot of scumvibes from AE, probed AE, and otherwise interacted with her too much, IMO, to be likely scum with her. Oh, and voted her on day 1. Did not end up on AE's bandwagon day 3.
Crub: defended AE on day 3, including attempted deflection to myself FOSed AE on day 2 Almost no interaction with AE before that.

I think I know why Crub has been pushing me or stewie...

FOS: Crub

[Crub]

I'd likely have been a lot less pushy on a bus

WIFOM much?

I didn't say you were the only two I said that he appeared better than you. After that last post I'm not so sure!