433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[somestrangeflea]

I did a little reading of flea in a few other games about a week ago. He does seem consistent with the 'I'm in the game now, so that's when I start playing' attitutde (both when he replaces and when other's replace in).

And, should I die, my death will help the case that metagaming rarely works...

I was saying you were playing in a consistent manner to other games as and with replacements. I wasn't metagaming you for a tell; I was sharing an observation that anyone can make. I think it helps to understand your attitude towards this game.

Apologies, I misread your post. I thought you were trying to say that I was acting

in

consistently in this game.

Do you have any other thoughts on Day 1, or at least Day 2?

As is fairly obvious, I have acquired a fair amount of suspicion for Dasquian.

Vote: Dasq

Partial OMGUS, partial retaliation for CrapMisinterpretationFun™...

[Thestatusquo]

Gorckat (pie OtM)
SSF (peted dasq GORCK)
No lynch (kilm)
Dasq (SSF)

[Dasquian]

To address accusations of misrepresentation:

Hooray for misrepresentation!
Uh, you said that. I said that I was apathetic, yes, but I understand the situation perfectly.

Yes, I did say that. You responded with:

Apathetic FTW.
TBH, I've been playing this game rather

a

pathetically...

Hence I drew the conclusion that you admitted to apathy, and did not draw the conclusion that you "understood the situation perfectly". In fact, I drew quite the reverse conclusion as you responded in the affirmative to me when I said you were, and I quote again, "too apathetic to get to a point where he might understand".

I don't think I am misrepresenting you here. I think my position is entirely defensible.

Misrepresentation FTW!
Normally, giving up is a public affair, normally accompanied by the phrase "I give up", or words to that effect. I don't think you're in a position to tell me what my own mindset is, thank you.

I'm not going to get into a semantic argument about what "giving up" means and whether it's a technical term or not. My point was that you had, until now, pretty much opted out on playing this game with any significant level of involvement, to the intense frustration of myself and I am fairly sure a number of others. Again, I'm pretty happy with this accusation, but I'm happier that you're finally pulling your finger out now. It shouldn't have taken this long.

And gee golly whiz, I'm sorry all the

interesting

players died Day 1, but that's a dreadful excuse for not posting - it sounds like a grade A cop-out to me - to get you off the hook for commenting on who

didn't

die. Finally...

Why are scum any more likely to not read the thread than town? Not reading the thread thoroughly would jeopardise both alignments fairly equally, TBH.

Well, any player should do their homework on replacing into a game, even if it's just a cursory glance. However, townies have more to gain from a reread as they are the ones who need to root out scum. Scum already know who they are. So that's one reason.

Another reason is that scum don't have to be telling the truth about not having read the thread, as a obstruction tactic akin to lurking to avoid them contributing to the game in a way that gets them in trouble - or, in other words, it makes sense as scum to claim you haven't read the thread if you can get away with it. We only have your word for it that you haven't cynically chosen to play the way you have. So I would expect some proportion of replacers claiming not to have read the thread to be scum trying it on, alongside some townies and scum alike who genuinely haven't read the thread.

[somestrangeflea]

Hence I drew the conclusion that you admitted to apathy, and did not draw the conclusion that you "understood the situation perfectly". In fact, I drew quite the reverse conclusion as you responded in the affirmative to me when I said you were, and I quote again, "too apathetic to get to a point where he might understand".

Really? I mean, it's a relatively simple situation, to be honest...

I'm not going to get into a semantic argument about what "giving up" means and whether it's a technical term or not. My point was that you had, until now, pretty much opted out on playing this game with any significant level of involvement, to the intense frustration of myself and I am fairly sure a number of others.

My point was that you can't tell someone else that they've given up.

And gee golly whiz, I'm sorry all the interesting players died Day 1,

Don't be. Not being particularly interesting is good play for both Town and Scum.

but that's a dreadful excuse for not posting

I wasn't using that as an excuse for not posting, I'm using it as an excuse for not commenting on Day 1. ..

- it sounds like a grade A cop-out to me - to get you off the hook for commenting on who didn't die.

Yeah, because I'm off the hook...

Well, any player should do their homework on replacing into a game, even if it's just a cursory glance. However, townies have more to gain from a reread as they are the ones who need to root out scum. Scum already know who they are. So that's one reason.

Another reason is that scum don't have to be telling the truth about not having read the thread, as a obstruction tactic akin to lurking to avoid them contributing to the game in a way that gets them in trouble - or, in other words, it makes sense as scum to claim you haven't read the thread if you can get away with it. We only have your word for it that you haven't cynically chosen to play the way you have. So I would expect some proportion of replacers claiming not to have read the thread to be scum trying it on, alongside some townies and scum alike who genuinely haven't read the thread.

Oh...

STFU!

[Off the Mark]

SSF, your vote on Dasq and your nonchalant attitude towards his accusations aren't really helping you. I'm still leaning town on you, but I think you're doing a lousy job playing as a townie who's replaced into a tough spot.

Gorckat or Pete are clearly better plays than Dasq IMO, for today's lynch. If one of them comes up clean, then maybe we can trust Dasq a little more, as he does seem like a pretty bright guy who could help us if he is indeed pro-town. If we kill Dasq and he's town, it's a worse loss IMO than if Gorck or Pete were to get mislynched. My best guess at this point would be that they're all scum, but let's lynch Gorckat first and see where that leads us.

I just know someone's going to say this post is scummy, for whatever reason, but I've been beating the Gorck-Pete-Dasq drum for a while now and nothing has happened to change my mind.

[gorckat]

It is scummy.

Your best guess is that the three of us are scum, but you want me to go first and you refused Das on a pete lynch. Does that hit too close to the idea that you argued against earlier- that at one point you were bussing your partner?

Also- your position that losing Das hurts more than losing me is illogical. If you think the three of us are scum, letting the bright one live ain't much gud sens, y'know?

[Dasquian]

OK, let's look at this a more pragmatic way. I think we should be lynching ssf today. So far, myself, gorckat and pete d are voting for him, meaning we need two more votes. Assuming he won't vote for himself, and taking OTM's last post as a "don't want to vote him", that leaves kilm, PJ and pie as potential bandwagon-finishers.

What are you three's opinions on voting ssf?

On a similar vein, gorck has two votes (pie and OTM) and hence needs three more from the same crowd + ssf and - gorckat himself. Speaking for myself, I am not keen on lynching him today. That leaves kilm, PJ, ssf and pete d as potential bandwagon-finishers.

What are your four's opinions on voting gorckat?

It's worrying to note that in both cases, without kilmenator being here and voting, we need a near unanimous agreement which basically depends on scum bussing each other Though, that said, that gives us something to read into (which in turn, should encourage the scum to bus each other ).

[Off the Mark]

It is scummy.

Your best guess is that the three of us are scum, but you want me to go first and

you refused Das on a pete lynch

.

Whoah, that is not AT ALL what happened. *WHOOP WHOOP* scum alert, people! Das mentioned that he maybe thought Pete could be scum. I offered

to Dasq

that I would support a Pete D lynch and then

Dasq refused

. You twisted the whole thing around to try to make it look like I was the one acting scummy instead of Dasq! I can't believe we haven't lynched you already.

Also- your position that losing Das hurts more than losing me is illogical. If you think the three of us are scum, letting the bright one live ain't much gud sens, y'know?

It's perfectly logical. Keeping a smart pro-town player around can help the town a lot. If you turn up scum, then we know Dasq has a high likelihood of also being scum, and then who cares if he's smart? Smart scum can't hurt the town at all if we know he's scum.

[Dasquian]

Yes, I was also confused by that - OTM is right. Although it didn't seem so much like an "offer" me as OTM pushing his agenda, but hey.

If you turn up scum, then we know Dasq has a high likelihood of also being scum, and then who cares if he's smart? Smart scum can't hurt the town at all if we know he's scum.

Um, not liking this so much. I accept that if gorckat should show up to be scum the town would be justified in taking a closer look at me; I've defended him and repeatedly said I find him to be townie. I do not like you lining me up as a non-participant in my own lynch should that eventually occur, however.

[gorckat]

It is scummy.

Your best guess is that the three of us are scum, but you want me to go first and

you refused Das on a pete lynch

.

Whoah, that is not AT ALL what happened. *WHOOP WHOOP* scum alert, people! Das mentioned that he maybe thought Pete could be scum. I offered

to Dasq

that I would support a Pete D lynch and then

Dasq refused

. You twisted the whole thing around to try to make it look like I was the one acting scummy instead of Dasq! I can't believe we haven't lynched you already.

Not intentional in the least. Honest mistake, since I didn't go back to quote the actual posts. It was off the top of my head.

For you second point, I maintain my position. If you think Das is dangerous as scum, you'd lynch him. If Das isn't scum, who do you think is?

[pete d]

pete d is being quiet, or at least giving me that impression. Would like to hear more.

Did you not see my LA post? I don't see how I've been contributing less than pie, PJ, ssf or kilm, plus nothing much has been changing. I'm still happy voting ssf, I think I've made myself clear on my suspicions, what would you like me to post? As for would I vote gorckat, I'm not sure, I have found him suspicious, but I can't see both gorckat and ssf being scum together, and I'm more convinced that ssf / string is the scum. So no, my vote stays on ssf.

[Dasquian]

I did see it, and I wasn't expecting an immediate response. I just had the overall impression of quietness, as a gut feeling. So if pete d isn't willing to vote gorckat today, then that requires all three of ssf, PJ and kilmenator to finish the lynch. Are you [the gorckat voters] sure you wouldn't rather help us finish the ssf bandwagon?

[Off the Mark]

Dasq's question rephrased:

Are you sure you wouldn't rather vote with the scum and finish off ssf?

My answer: Heck yeah I'm sure!

Vote gorckat, people.

[Dasquian]

*rolls eyes*

Seriously, I want to see if we are at an impasse or not. We can complain all we want about the day taking a long time but if it is to ever end, we need to make it end.

Really, kilmenator needs to post. Or be replaced. I don't care which at this point.

[Off the Mark]

Now that I can agree with.

[gorckat]

Dasq's question rephrased:

Are you sure you wouldn't rather vote with the scum and finish off ssf?

My answer: Heck yeah I'm sure!

Vote gorckat, people.

From my point of view, you're doing the same thing directed towards me. We can play back and forth all day like that.

Das is right- we need to end this ourselves.

[Off the Mark]

Actually, no, it's not the same. It would be the same if SSF was voting for you, but he's not, he's voting for Dasq. I think the town's votes are scattered around right now, while the scum votes are all pushing the SSF wagon, making it look inevitable. Town needs to make a decision, and unfortunatley for us, if just one townie sides with the scum, we lose.

[Dasquian]

You get points for dramatic urgency, but lose some for lack of subtlety with a hamfisted attempt to push your agenda

[gorckat]

For you second point, I maintain my position. If you think Das is dangerous as scum, you'd lynch him. If Das isn't scum, who do you think is?

[Off the Mark]

If Das isn't scum, I would look at Pie or PJ as the 3rd scum. PJ is more likely since Pie has been pushing Gorck for a while.

[Off the Mark]

You get points for dramatic urgency, but lose some for lack of subtlety with a hamfisted attempt to push your agenda

I find it telling that you didn't refute my assertion that the SSF wagon is scum-driven. I think that normally the scum wouldn't put themselves all on the same bandwagon like this. But you guys have gotten stuck because I was originally on the bandwagon and am now off of it. So now you have to lie in the bed you've made, so to speak. Changing tactics at this point would seem scummier than staying put and hoping a townie makes the wrong decision, so that's what you're doing.

[gorckat]

Interesting, since prior to replacement, Nanook had just said I was the top suspect and pj's first vote, once he'd settled in and re-read twice, was to vote me.

At the point pj came in, iirc, a string lynch was more likely than lynching me. Same for Nanook- only pie, if anyone, had voted me when he suspected me.

[gorckat]

EBWOP- "just before replacement" is a bit of a misnomer. "The last thing Nanook said" is better.

[Off the Mark]

Interesting, since prior to replacement, Nanook had just said I was the top suspect and pj's first vote, once he'd settled in and re-read twice, was to vote me.

At the point pj came in, iirc, a string lynch was more likely than lynching me. Same for Nanook- only pie, if anyone, had voted me when he suspected me.

Hmm you're right, I guess Das

is

the third scum after all.

Are you trying to make me look bad, by making it look like I am suspicious of other players besides you three banditos? Your attempt is transparent and scummy. Das is much scummier to me than any of the others.

Seriously, what was the point of you asking that question? I expect a real answer.

[gorckat]

I think you're unreasonably married to your "suspicions", to be brief.

Your characterization of how much scummier Das is than pj and pie makes it sound like pete and I must be the second coming of Stalin and Hitler (I mean- you want me to go first and have bargained for a pete lynch and Das is the dangerous one). If so, how come pete has gotten so little suspicion?