Mini 430: Villagers and Vampires (GAME OVER!)

[Chaosjuggler]

I have been prodded. I am here. Sorry about the inactivity.

Yesterdays, explain yourself. That was a very scummy post, in my opinion, and a mislynch of a town is not as detrimental now as the possible lynch of the vampire- especially now you're posting like this.

Also,

Unvote

my randomvote.

[Shanba]

Ugh... I'm back, at last... but it would seem all my lovely posts are gone. I outlined my suspicions of Yesterdays before, but unfortunately what I found suspicious then seems to have been lost in the crash: namely, his reaction to having two random votes on him and his offhand comment complimenting Phoebus on finding a nice catch while not even voting for the person Pheobus was voting for.
I don't like his recent posts at all either: I'll go inot more detail later, but I need to check in on my other games quickly to stop myself being replaced XD

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry for my absense guys, ive been sick for a while and I still am. After I post this or a similar message in all my games I will return to bed. But you can expect me back in 1-2 days.

[Yesterdays]

Do Not Put Yesterdays On L-1!!!

Yesterdays, you've been acting strangly. can you explain why you:

• 1) make random votes?
  2) make
  very
  unuseful posts?
  3) keeping voting kiil_Schmitty although you never said why and the first NotVote for him was random?

BTW, everybody, this:

Dang. Three votes against me. There is no way to prove my identity. However kill me, I dare you.

You'll find what I really am...

Isn't a scumy post. It can be posted by scum as well as by towny.

1. First day is mostly always completely random. What a coincidence huh?
2. They are unuseful, I admit. Do I care? No. As soon as this game gets going, they'll become more usefull.
3. I only voted for him once. Not multiple times.

There you go. Are you happy now?

[Snichkin]

1) the first question wasn't "why you make random vote?"
it was "why make random votes without voting anybody?" It's not usefull in any way to say that someone is suspicion in random.

2) To make an unuseful posts is what stucking the game. It's scumy thing to do

[Shanba]

Yesterdays, why is it you say that random votes are OK yet explode in fury when I voted you for an arbitrary reason? Hypocrisy there, muchly so.

[Yesterdays]

Meh. This game isn't going anywhere, and Shanba, I forgave that vote and explained my opinions, but when the thread was cleaned up it was deleted. Yeh, so you can vote me out, but be warned that the game will NOT go anywhere.

[aude omnia]

I can agree to only one thing, which is that this game will go nowhere, or at least will demand a fairly insane amount of analysis.

As I have said before, there is no informed minority, just one person, and all we can really do is rule people out based on lack of suspicion-- that is, the earnestness with which they've pursued strategy.

Phoebus proceeded logically in pursuing me, although his math was flawed, undermining his argument a bit. And he was a bit of a jerk to me besides. :p Yesterdays' attitude has seemed consistent throughout. Elias_the_thief defended me, or simply wanted to avoid a baseless mislynch, I'm not certain.

dtsuei has not posted anything of content, nor has Scotmany12. Zchinque is the only one who worries me: While he's not voting for Yesterdays [last I checked] he is, as he posted in post 69 "fine with a Yesterdays lynch."

Why do you say that? What is the general opinion on this statement?

[Zchinque]

Why I said that?

As I have said earlier, in a post that may or may not have disappeared in the crash, I think this day will end in a lynch that is largely random, and I don't think there is much, if any, information we can gather until tomorrow, when we can start looking for patterns.
I feel that the events so far on this day has not proved me wrong.

As for why I am not voting Yesterdays, you might have noticed that Snichkin posted, in huge letters I might add, "Do Not Put Yesterdays On L-1!!!", thus I assumed that he is(was) not yet ready to end the day. So instead of voting, which would've gone against his wishes, I said that I would be fine with a Yesterdays lynching, implying that I am okay with the day ending.
You can consider it a vote in spirit, if you wish.

[Kill_Schmitty]

Meh. This game isn't going anywhere, and Shanba, I forgave that vote and explained my opinions, but when the thread was cleaned up it was deleted. Yeh, so you can vote me out, but be warned that the game will NOT go anywhere.

Are you implying that you are the vampire? because the only way this game will not go anywhere is if you are the vampire and the game ends. You keep saying that it wont go anywhere but if we lynch you and you are a townie it will go on.

[aude omnia]

Why I said that?

As I have said earlier, in a post that may or may not have disappeared in the crash, I think this day will end in a lynch that is largely random, and I don't think there is much, if any, information we can gather until tomorrow, when we can start looking for patterns.
I feel that the events so far on this day has not proved me wrong.

As for why I am not voting Yesterdays, you might have noticed that Snichkin posted, in huge letters I might add, "Do Not Put Yesterdays On L-1!!!", thus I assumed that he is(was) not yet ready to end the day. So instead of voting, which would've gone against his wishes, I said that I would be fine with a Yesterdays lynching, implying that I am okay with the day ending.
You can consider it a vote in spirit, if you wish.

Sorry, the crash has made a bad situation worse. To be honest, with so much content gone, I don't think we can glean much of anything from today.

With that in mind, I still find a no lynch to be the most viable option. The reason mafia works is because an informed minority makes themselves visible. I will ask now:

Do we:
1. Vote randomly
2. Vote not to lynch and look for patterns later
3. Continue indefinitely until we end in a lynch.

1. could win the game for us, but is unlikely to do so. Odds are that we simply give the Vamp the upper hand.
2. creates an informed minority, but ends discussion.
3. is unappealing to me if only because at this moment, the typical scum tells don't apply. It's just wasting time and laying down red herrings that might hurt us later.

[Snichkin]

zchinque, if you want you can vote who ever you want to, I just didn't want we lynch yesterdays before he answer my questions.
I think we should have long day one and because of that I'll

unvote

. I still not happy with the answers Yesterdays gave me so I would

FoS: Yesterdays

.

[Shanba]

Aude Omnia, for posterity I think it's best to point out it was my maths that was bad and not Pheobus.

I'm fairly definitely of the opinion that we want a nice long day 1 with as much contribution as possible. I think mathematically the numbers showed than no lynch was actually a better plan (you can correct me on that though) but if we decide to no lynch today any reactions we gather will naturally be less sincere as there is no real pressure on any player under pressure. The same with random voting.

Day 1 we only have one scum. As days go on we will have more. As an example to explain why I feel that letting the scum group get bigger in order to find connections is a bad idea, let's imagine we have a pond. There are scum in the pond who give off lots of ripples and town who give off fewer ripples. Naturally, if we want to find the source of the ripples, it's easiest when there are fewest scum giving confusing swirly patterns in the water.

The other thing is, peoples opinions day 1 are crucial. Today, we can be fairly sure that any opinions we get from a player are their true thoughts, with only one player trying to mislead us. Therefore any day 1 opinions are the purest, the basis point for what we can look for subtle changes in later on, but also the most honest in that we can trust them much more readily than later opinions that may have been warped by an alignment change. Keeping the threat of lynch available also helps keep this purity of opinion.

For these reasons, I think a nice long say 1 with plenty of different bandwagons is a good idea. Ideally, we should get at least each players opinion on each other player by the end of the day. In fact, for that very reason,

unvote Yesterdays

for now. Limit the risk of a short day.

[Snichkin]

great speak, Shanba. I'll start with you:
I think that although you had some mistakes in the beggininng of the day (math etc.) you are a towny (for now). You're last post is

very

correct. sorry that you're not posting enough.

[aude omnia]

Shanba, that sounds like getting blood from a stone [if you'll excuse the idiom]. I still want to understand what scum tells there could be without an informed minority.

[Shanba]

Well, first off, there is an informed minority: it's an informed minority of 1. Second, there are many things that can be lone scum tells. To name a few things I think aer scummy, over-reacting, wishy-washiness, appeals to emotion, defeatist attitudes: in fact, the great majority of scum-tells are not reliant on having more than one scum in a group. Also, what you seem to ignoring is that if we don't get enough opinions/reactions from players today, we won't have anything to go on in later days when comparing opinions.

In fact, a long day 1 is crucial to any game (see the road to rome forum for examples), but I think that in this game it's even more important than most others for the reasons I have highlighted above.

Any slight mathematical advantage we get from no-lynching is overwhelmed by the disadvantage of a wasted day 1.

Vote: Aude Omnia

. I want to see where this goes.

[Chaosjuggler]

It's not going to go anywhere, in my opinion. I think Aude is arguably the most town out of anyone at the moment, as he has been actively working for the town; even if he was advocating something that noone else agrees with, I think that his logic has been consistent all game.

[Blackberry]

VOTE TALLY

Yesterdays

## 2 [Elias_the_thief, Kill_Schmitty]

aude omnia

## 2 [Phoebus, Shanba]

Elias_the_thief

# 1 [scotmany12]

Kill_Schmitty

# 1 [Yesterdays]

Not Voting: aude omnia, dtsuei, Zchinque, Chaosjuggler, Snichkin

With 11 Alive, it will take 6 to Stake.

[aude omnia]

Well, first off, there is an informed minority: it's an informed minority of 1. Second, there are many things that can be lone scum tells. To name a few things I think aer scummy, over-reacting, wishy-washiness, appeals to emotion, defeatist attitudes: in fact, the great majority of scum-tells are not reliant on having more than one scum in a group.

That's interesting. I don't really see how I fit any of these things, though you're voting for me anyway.

In any case, one person is an 'informed minority' in name only. They have no one to protect. I imagine their relationships being mapped in the form of a web. With multiple vampires, they have more to keep connected covertly. With only one vampire, their 'relationship map' is exactly the same as anyone else's.

Also, what you seem to ignoring is that if we don't get enough opinions/reactions from players today, we won't have anything to go on in later days when comparing opinions.

In fact, a long day 1 is crucial to any game (see the road to rome forum for examples), but I think that in this game it's even more important than most others for the reasons I have highlighted above.

Any slight mathematical advantage we get from no-lynching is overwhelmed by the disadvantage of a wasted day 1.

Vote: Aude Omnia

. I want to see where this goes.

I think it's a little too easy to bandwagon against me. I am still looking for a long first day. I play mafia very conservatively, so I think that a "slight mathematical advantage" is well worth it. Mislynch, and we make the game much harder on ourselves, as there is a bandwagon a mile long for the vamp and eventually vamps to hide behind.

Apropos to nothing, but I think it's worth noting that tonight, the vampire has only one option, and that is to recruit another. This game seems quite skewed towards the scum-- the head vamp can recruit just as fast as we can lynch, and alone or not, they DO know who they are.

Is this attitude too defeatist for you, Shanba? :p If so, I'm sorry, just rereading the rules.

[scotmany12]

I want to start off with

Unvoting

.

Secondly, we must not no lynch. It is not going to benefit us at all. The vampire will just gain a follower, and now we will have two scum confusing us. That puts us at a disadvantage. Yes, the odds are not in our favor this day, and most likely, we will lynch a townie. But there is that small chance that we lynch the vampire. And if we succeed at that, then this game will end. It is this reason why day 1 should last a very long time, for it is the towns best chance at winning this game.

I have to go read over someones post will quick. Be back with a vote.

[scotmany12]

I read over quite a few post from people, and I don't really see anyone that worthy of a vote. Yesterdays has been the most suspicious to me, I personally think that it is just poor play. I'm also a little worried about Phoebus, I'm going to watch him a little bit more carefully.

Still, I don't really see these two worthy of lynching at this point, nor anyone else. I'm going to vote for someone who I don't believe will be lynched, and who I don't particularly find scummy.

Vote: Chaosjuggler

Hopefully something will come out of this.

[Elias_the_thief]

Personally, I dont see why you would vote someone you dont find scummy. Unless you plan to pressure them into posting more, but you already said you dont think he's scummy or that he'll be lynched, so its not really pressure as such.

[scotmany12]

Just trying to get something started. Not sure if anything will come out of it, though.

[Phoebus]

nice one scotmany.

unvote: aude omnia ; vote: yesterdays

this is due to aude's current posts + yesterday's weird posts yesterday (you know what i mean)

[Zchinque]

(Still here)

Scot: What can possibly come from voting someone you don't find suspicious,

and also say

that you don't find them suspicious?
Had you not said that, I could've seen the point, but this is just confusing to me.