Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[Guardian]

Yeah, good game Skruffs thanks for it. Well done scum, I am just frustrated because I had you two and Elias and Cog slipped it up.

[IH]

So...... Elias hid, but a block was succesful?

Was that the one you asked me about?

[PJ.]

Thank you jingo. I'm eager to hear from CoG and Shea.

[Jingolaw]

Reading back now, Jack’s posts just ooze scum, but it’s funny that at the time I was so focused on Panzer that I didn’t see it. I didn’t really have to do any detective work in this game, though, and I’m disappointed that I was less than persuasive to Elias, CoG, and Guardian. I

knew

PbuG was the SK (or, less likely, scum) because I watched him kill, and I

knew

Panzer was scum because of the false claim (which I had watched the night before).

My job, really, was to convince people to lynch Panzer without painting a huge bull’s-eye on my back...failed, and failed. I tried for almost a month to yank people into the light, to no avail. I was within a few hours of role-claiming and trying to reconstruct the case against Panzer (which, I’m sure, would have ben ignored anyway) when Jack

very

skillfully hammah’d.

By that time, Panzer, I’m sure you were extremely eager to nightkill me, having seen the glowing bull’s-eye I had painted on my back for you.

Again, very well played, Panzer and Jack; congratulations!

And Skruffs, I enjoyed the game very much, but I must point out that with so many specialty roles, the game approaches randomness. When so many players have roles that directly effect other player’s roles, it becomes impossible to catch scum because

any

claim becomes plausible, and

any

obscure alignment makes some sense. With that said, I think your flavor was among the best I’ve seen, and the concept was innovative and clever. Thanks again.

And thanks again to everyone else for playing. I hope to see you all in other games. Cheers!

-Jingolaw

[PJ.]

I didn't think you had a power role. I was very clearly thinking Elias was doc and you were probably some sort of vanilla. So I figured we'd roleblock one and kill the other thinking one of you was doc. I didn't expect a watcher, tracker, and hider.

[Skruffs]

Notes about the setup.
There were no cops, and there were no doctors. However, there were weaker versions of hte same - Elias, PBuG, and TSQ were all able to avoid being killed, for different reasons. TSQ would revive once on being death, PBuG Was immune to night actions the first night he was targettd, and Elias had the ability to hide, rendering him immune to all actions that would target him.
In stead of a cop, there was a tracker and a watcher. Again, nothing definte could be proved by any of the roles involved, so scum hunting would be almost exclusively based on game play.
The game could have been over day two, if one mafia had been lynched, and the remaining mafia killed by the sk, who would then be lynched the following day - theoretically.

To be honest, I am both perplexed and understanding of Jingolaw's play. He saw PBug - and pbug alone - target Nai night one, but barely mentioned it - and helped lynch TSQ day two instead.
Why, Jingo? Why??
I'm assuming that you were afraid of being nightkilled - however, you could have helped town a lot by outing yourself for an even trade.
Cog88 - You had horrible luck in this game - I was happy when you finally targetted an unimmune player. It's unfortunate you didn't push your result harder, though.
MVP : Probably Panzerjager and Jack. The mafia didn't really get their act together until day four - at lylo - and Jack was smart not to counterclaim Panzer. If panzer had been lynched, jack would have been S-O-L the next day for not counterclaiming roleblocker.

WHat I don't understand is that I gave all of the mafia and SK safe claims - a full bladder, a nightmare, etc. I guess that got lost to the ages, but they were there. PBuG would have been doing a lot better if he had not counterclaimed flavor on MG.

I am hella confused about TSQ's play. FAking a posting restriction? It did help stir up discussion, and I understand the acting scummy because he can afford it, but it wound up wasting a town's lynch on him without proving anything. I think it would have been better if he had alowed himself to be nightkilled - wasting one of scum's precious kills on him, instead.

Still, it was a fun, enjoyable game, and I appreciate everyone who played and replaced in.

[Jingolaw]

To be honest, I am both perplexed and understanding of Jingolaw's play. He saw PBug - and pbug alone - target Nai night one, but barely mentioned it - and helped lynch TSQ day two instead.
Why, Jingo? Why??
I'm assuming that you were afraid of being nightkilled - however, you could have helped town a lot by outing yourself for an even trade.

I saw PbuG, and

guessed

he was anti-town, though given the bizarre roles, I really wasn’t sure. I pushed a little to see if I could get him strung up without claiming, and then Shea started his antics, giving me a good opportunity to see how Shea and PbuG interacted, so I went after Shea, knowing I could always come back to PbuG, claiming if necessary to get him lynched. I was unclear if he was scum or SK at first, and I wanted to see who associated with him and how.

To me, remember, PbuG was a confirmed (probably) bad guy...knowing more about him didn’t help me. But knowing more about his associations

would

help...particularly when the scum didn’t know that

I knew

that PbuG was a bad guy. When no concrete connections came up, I leaned more toward SK, and explained fully in the game.

I had nothing to do with TSQ’s lynch. I defended him, in fact.

Once I had a better read of PbuG as SK, I rode him hard until everyone else came on board the wagon. After Panzer’s false claim I did the same thing; I relentlessly pushed and pushed and pushed...but to no avail. As I said, I was going to claim and hope that would convince the rest of the town to lynch Panzer, but I had doubts that anyone was listening to me...Panzer was running wickedly effective interference.

One of the prime reasons for not claiming sooner was the crazy roles. You mentioned in my role that, as the sun, my power grew as time went on. I know now that this was flavor, but had no way of being certain. I thought perhaps that my role changed over time, perhaps getting to watch twice per night after a certain number of days, or something like that. You must admit that it wasn’t completely crazy for me to have thought that. With that in mind, I had to take into account that my pro-town abilities just might be even more valuable than normal...so I was reluctant to make an even trade Day 2.

That potential even trade would not really have helped, anyway. PbuG was SK, not scum...but I didn’t know that Day 2. I only knew he was anti-town (or probably anti-town, anyway), and hoped to associate him with somebody and breadcrumb the combo, not just point and yell “scum!” at PbuG. Finding the associations is more valuable than just sacrificing yourself for one bad guy who

may

be scum, but also

may

be SK.

It made perfect sense at the time with the information that I had. Does that help?

[Guardian]

Last post...

good job scum, you zoinked the town well.
I am still incredibly frustrated with Cog and Elias. I am going to link here in other games when I am sure people are scum but people ignore me...

Setup was good, fun, and balanced.

Thanks all.

[Elias_the_thief]

im frustrated with your play too, though i do admit i played bad at endgame as well.

*actual last post*

[CoG888]

Sorry, Gaurdian. I had so many doubts about panzer in the back of my mind due to being half-wrong about pbug.

Panzer: Remember when I said I thought you were scummy, and when I re-read I changed my mind about you as I couldn't find a strong case against you? Actually, I thought you were the doctor at that point. Then, I read in the wiki that if someone has a power role and thinks another player is a doctor, that player is likely to be scum. I then realized you were scum and that you had to be on to me as a power role. I fully expected to be capped that night, so I targeted you night three. I wish I played better after that point. Curious, did you suspect me to have a power role at that point?

[PJ.]

I was more worried about staying covered then capping power roles at that point. I wasn't ever going to cap you, people felt you were far too pro-town and I figured if I kept placing myself well your your eyes I'd be set. Most people that died were urgent manners or speed bumps. Shea for example would have been a speed bump, as would have IH. Sefer was a matter of urgency because I thought he could kill me.

[Skruffs]

Poor sefer.
Jingo - I'm sorry if the gamge approached randomness - I wanted a stabilized setup, and yes, like you said - anything anyone does (role blocker / immunity) can be counter balanced by another player (tracker & watchers can get no results that does not indicate they were role blocked). The lack of doctor and cops were offset by other roles - so anyone could have claimed doctor/scum without being countered.

I think that everyone involved were perceptive about other people's plans, but there was some lack of follow through. BUt I guess I say that as someone who saw it all from the omnipotent point of view.

I got really frustrated twhen the game was no loonger considered 'norma' - the roles in volves were all from the 'normal' list of roles, and was validated by three or four people that I consider 'official opinion makers' ... but i can see how reading the game externally might lead others to think that it could be broken by flavor or role claiming.

Oh well. I really enjoyed playing, and I congradulate Panzerjager, Jack, Cpt_Fantastic, and Ripley on their success.

My apologies, Jingo, I guess I understand, now.

[PJ.]

Oh well. I really enjoyed playing, and I congradulate Panzerjager, Jack, Cpt_Fantastic, and Ripley on their success

lol

[Elias_the_thief]

congratulate is spelled with a t. i noticed you never spell it right skruffs.

[Skruffs]

Shut up, End-Gamed person.

[The Fonz]

So...... Elias hid, but a block was succesful?

Was that the one you asked me about?

Actually, that's a point, when a RBer targets a hider, what happens?

Does the RB prevent the hider deploying his night ability to hide, or does the hiding prevent the night action performed on him (ie- roleblocking) from working?

[Skruffs]

Well that was at an end-game situation, so, the block would have gone through first, which would have stopped him from using his hide, which would have been wasted.
I know, it's hard to figure out which would go through first. he wasn't being targetted that night for death so in either case he would have had no protection in further nights.

[MeMe]

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