Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

[EnPaceRequiescat]

looks like gnome was going for a last-ditch shot... but his rule makes sure that the mafia is unight-killable. However, he does have my sympathies, as rules often have loopholes. wheter they are deliberate or not needs to be considered. Untrod Tripod is sorta on my radar, though. we aren't sure if we have vigilantes in this game, at least mlaker didn't say so. I find it kinda suspicious that untrod is taking a postulate to go after gnome. He seems really bent on killing gnome.

however, right now, gnome is still suspicious. therefore,

vote: gnome

.

How he turns out will determine my opinion of tripod.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said 1 protection

in the game

so it'd be a one shot thing per player!

In any case, I probably should have said this earlier (not like you would or will believe me, anyhow) But I'm the

Dad

Along with the

Mom

we can discuss at night and give one other player a bath at night so that they can't do anything! So I'm part of a Roleblocking Mason Group!

[Untrod Tripod]

1. Who is mom?
2. (to He/she/itRestsInPeace) I'm pretty sure there is a vigilante.
3. I want to know if Gnome's rule is legal and if mordargo's rule is legal

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Why would I tell you who Mom is? If I told you that, we'd both be targets for the mafia! Even if I did, I'm probably going to get lynched anyhow! So why would I want to paint a bullseye on my partner, who the town would still be able to use!?

Vote: Untrod Tripod

(like it matters) For trying to drill information on a pro-town role from his dying partner!

If anyone calls that dumb, sue me, I'm as good as dead anyhow!

[Untrod Tripod]

1. If you tell us who mom is, you have someone to vouch for you (provided that you aren't lying; if so, the real mom and dad come forward, and you get lynched and your partner is Tiger-food)
2. Using your rule, if you really ARE Dad and (blank) is mom, you can protect each other tonight.
3. I'm not really buying your claim anyway, but that's only because of your major anti-town behavior.
4. If it mattered so much, Mom probably would have already come out and vouched for you. I propose that we wait 24 (or more, it depends on what the rest of the town thinks) hours for Mom to come around and THEN we lynch him if we still think he's lying.

[modargo]

With that roleclaim, I see no reason to continue voting for Mr_Gnome today. If we still don't believe him a few days from now, we can just force him to reveal Mom. Right now, there's not much point. We know the size and identities of all the members of his mason group, so there's no risk of a mafia pretending to be in it. And we'll know if either member dies. (And on a side note, if someone else has the role of the Dad, or has the role of the Mom and isn't in Mr_Gnome's mason group, this is where you come forward and say so.)

Mr_Gnome: Do you know if your target told about the bath? And don't be so freaking defeatist. You whine about how nobody will believe you and how you're "going to be lynched anyway" when it's pretty obvious that the town will acknowledge your roleclaim of mason and move on. The better thing for you to have done would have been to just present your roleclaim in a collected manner, noting why it means that the town should focus on someone else, and then present your own suspicions. (Losing the stupid exclamation marks would also help.) In my experience, complaing about how you're "going to be lynched anyway" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People just seem to automatically dislike it when others just "give up".

And suggesting that Mr_Gnome's rule could be used to protect people is just plain stupid, because there's no way that rule will pass muster. A simple examination of the idea can show that if that rule was allowed, the mafia would have no chance. Every person would just make a similar rule, the town would do "no lynch" for about 14 days while everybody protected themselves, and then any cops (I assume there are some in this game) would come forward with 14 nights of investigation results.

Please, just stop making rules. It only confuses things.

unvote: Mr_Gnome_It_All

vote: Untrod Tripod

. There is no reason to pressure Mr_Gnome_It_All to reveal Mom. It serves no point right now.

[Tigris]

Tiger food?!?! Where???? Oh ye meant the mom iffen s/he's scum. My mistake.

Well, since it is 10 to lynch (via my count) and we only have 8 on him, I don't believe that we are at the lynch mark yet. I would advise a slightly longer time frame for him to prove/disprove his innocence via mom, simply because it is the holiday season and a lot of people are celebrating. I know I am ^_^ *wishes we had a intoxicated icon ^_^*

Anyhows, usually mason groups are safe until end-game scenarios (just because the mafia wants to kill docs and cops), but then again yer a mason group with an ability, so I'm not sure what the mafia would do with ye. Ordinarilly, I would suggest that the mother come out and verify ye, but since there is that extra ability . . . I do wish that ye hadn't given out the extra ability part cause then ye two could have confirmed each other without making targets fer the mafia.

To be honest, i'm not sure how much good a role blocker is. Iffen the mod decides that the mafia acts as a group then losing one member on the kill via role block wouldn't make that much of a difference, imo. So it is actually more likely to hurt the town, imo if that is the case (as cops and docs can be blocked singularly, not to mention vigies who will think their target is the godfather iffen they de nae be dying) even though it be pro-town. Course it works pretty well on sks though.

Oh and I fergot earlier to talk about pb's point about my thinking about the previous rule about night choices being random. Let's say yer a cop and get investigation results. Iffen the mod only tells ye innocent/guilty, without the name attached, then the randomization the mod would make would mean that you don't know who is innocent/scum, but newer players would infer that it applied to the people they wished to target when it didn't. But since I'm not a cop, I de nae be knowing what type of results they receive, so the argument may be incredibly moot as opposed to merely moot per mlaker's ruling. ^_^

I guess that how useful a role-blocker is depends on the mafia mechanism, anyone wish to volunteer any knowledge on that, we won't lynch ye, honest. Oh and iffen ye do be wondering (which I'm sure yer not ;P) this whole post be sounding like the dwarves in FF9 in me head, which may be aching come the morn.

[Tigris]

Oh and no fair posting while I'm typing modargo, iffen I hadn't already posted my rule I would post that no one can post while I'm typing *pouts, perks up and is very happiesh* Kinda agrees with modargo though, but prefers to vote with a proper state of mind. ^_^

[PolarBoy]

Tigris, please never do that again. Ever. It hurt my head just reading that.

[PolarBoy]

oh yeah,

unvote: MGIA

...what to do...

[Untrod Tripod]

Well, since this behavior isn't entirely out of the ordinary for MGIA,

unvote Mr Gnome It All

[shelper]

unvote: gnome

for obvious reasons.
Tempted to vote tigris simply for this.

iffen they de nae be dying

Will try to restrain myself though... (no vote)

[Spoon]

Ok, sorry for my absence, I had some RL stuff to deal with.

If am voting for anyone,

Unvote

. I think it is safe to assume MGIAs roleclaim is genuine, even without mom revealing herself.

Vote Untod Tripod

for pressing MGIA to reveal mom for no apparent reason, and then suddently agreeing to unvote MGIA when other people start unvoting MGIA.

[Untrod Tripod]

Pressing mom for "no apparent reason"? He a last ditch role claim of being a mason after being blatantly anti town. Why shouldn't I want some more proof? And since people think I'm suspicious for thinking so, what's the point in pursuing it?

[Untrod Tripod]

in the above post, "mom" should be "Gnome"

[Scalebane]

Actually, I can vouch for Untrod Tripod. I simply can. His role is rather simple and obvious, but if you guys insist on being silly, I can show you the light. I simply hope that I am not the only person who knows right now.

Oh, and

Unvote Gnome

[modargo]

Actually, I can vouch for Untrod Tripod. I simply can. His role is rather simple and obvious, but if you guys insist on being silly, I can show you the light. I simply hope that I am not the only person who knows right now.

I'm pretty sure I know what his role is. I'm also pretty sure I heavily dislike roleclaim by implication. There's bound to be at least one person in the mafia who's seen it by now, so at this point not saying it is only keeping information from the town (well, and the SK).

For that reason and another, I'm saying what I think Untrod Tripod is: Hobbes, Vigilante.

The other reason is that, if I'm right, this essentially allows for Mr_Gnome's group to confirm itself by blocking Untrod Tripod as he (UT) tries to use his ability to kill someone.

unvote: Untrod Tripod

, pending his response.

[Untrod Tripod]

I was hoping it was obvious enough that people would notice. And now that the mafia knows who I am, unless I get doc protection, I'm toast.
Could that be done?

[modargo]

If by that you're confirming that you are indeed Hobbes, Vigilante, here's what I think should be done.

First, Mr_Gnome and Mom should block Untrod Tripod.
Second, Untrod Tripod should try to kill someone. Not Mr_Gnome, not himself. Just someone else.
Third, all docs out there should flip a coin. Heads, they protect Mr_Gnome. Tails, they protect Untrod Tripod. This requires no coordination between the docs and still makes it too risky for them to target either Untrod Tripod or Mr_Gnome.

If this plan is followed, we keep two people I view as innocents and essentially completely confirm one of them.

I'm sorry about revealing you, but I think that at this point it's in the town's best interests.

[Untrod Tripod]

Works for me.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Well, in that case, I'll

Unvote Untrod Tripod

I think modargo's plan is a pretty good one, and I'm willing to follow along with it, as well.

[God]

What?

Why do we need Hobbes to be confirmed? This is a Calvin and Hobbes Mafia game, he is obviously in the game, and there is no scenario i can see that Hobbes would possibly be anti-town...

Mom and Dad however, I could see being a small mafia group, maybe with a non-kill related win condition. (ie. find calvin and meet with his teachers or something) If they are indeed role-blockers I think that a variation of modargo's plan should be attempted.

UT targets Gnome for a kill
Gnome targets UT for a block

If Gnome was lying, well he's dead and we dont need to worry about him.
Otherwise, Gnome is a confirmed role-blocker.

Docs, however if this plan is to work, should definetly NOT target either of the two. Well, Maybe target UT, Is anybody aware whether or not a doc protection stops role-block attempts?

[modargo]

Your plan is horrible. If Gnome is telling the truth, it gives the mafia free reign to kill him. UT targets Gnome, Gnome targets UT, nobody protects Gnome, the mafia target Gnome, and we've lost a mason. Whereas with my plan, if Gnome is telling the truth, they'll both be alive and UT will be able to confirm Gnome. And if Gnome is lying, whoever UT targeted will be dead and we can either lynch Gnome tomorrow or have UT vig-kill him tomorrow night.

And Hobbes doesn't really need to be confirmed, that's why we're trusting UT to tell us if he was roleblocked or not when he tries to kill someone tonight.

Stick with my plan.

[CoolBot]

Well, we still have to decide on who UT targets if we follow Mordargo's plan. I'm not completly sure about Gnome's claim, so I think he might be a good target. The doc(s) can still choose to protect either one of them.

[modargo]

No, you see, it doesn't work if Gnome is the target. If UT targets Gnome, how can know the difference between Gnome not dying because UT was roleblocked and Gnome not dying because a doctor who believed him protected him? Yes, there's a chance that UT will be specifically told that he was roleblocked; but there's also a chance that he won't be told, and there's no need to take that risk.

And UT absolutely

should not say

who he's going to try to kill. Per my plan, he should make his own choice about it. There's no reason to make it public beforehand. It should just be someone other than Gnome. And the docs should protect either Gnome or UT, at random (flipping a coin is a good method).

This plan provides both protection for the likely innocents, and confirmation of the one who is more suspicious. The modifications suggested introduce unnecessary uncertainty into the plan, and offer no extra benefit.