Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Garmr]

@Sir bastion
I'm talking to thor sir bastion. His basically saying lynch this player if I flip town. But unlike F 16 the circumstances are different he knew he would die if he targeted thor and thor ended up scum. If Thor has no clue what Ice is unless he is another power role which I doubt since F-16 targeted him.

My thought is thors saying this to confuse town or is trying to discredit being targeted by F-16 last night.


UNVOTE: Thor

[zakk]

I think it's pretty clear we shouldn't lynch Thor straightaway.

Yes it's pretty clear he's scum of some kind but let's try to figure out if it's possible we're dealing with two killing factions here at least, first. Could there be a serial killer or a second mafia group? Is it possible that Thor is town and one of them killed F-16 to frame him?

I realize this will probably bring a lot of suspicion on me to even suggest that, but I feel like everyone is too excited to lynch something that seems like a sure thing, and I want to holster our guns and realize that the people who were killed died for a reason. Who did Maxous suspect? Who else did F-16 suspect? Who else did Albert suspect?

Let's not forget that we should give everyone else a chance to weigh in before potentially two more people die tonight.

One thing that struck me as odd was that Thor was trying to get people to kill IceNinja after he died. Why? Could it possibly because Thor knows that his scum faction didn't aim for Maxous, and that it might be another kill attempt that hit him? And he suspects IceNinja might be scum of another team?

These are all things I have to consider before I will even put my vote on Thor, who I feel should have been lynched yesterday and Albert was pretty obviously town (easy to say after the fact yes, but I was getting strong town vibes from him even before page 10 had elapsed).

I was gone for most of Day 1, yes, but I will try to be active now that I am about halfway caught up.

Also, since somebody else is most likely going to die tonight, I would like to hear everyone's thoughts about their top town reads and scum reads. I think the scum in the game already has a pretty good idea of who they want to kill, because day 1 was pretty long and drawn out and everyone got pretty settled into their stances, so I don't think too much will be gained by scum if we are to share our thoughts. I feel the more we all share with the community, the better off we all will be. The more we hold things to ourselves, the less likely it is we will be able to catch mafia members efficiently, logically, and rationally.

And the faster things go, the better it is for scum. Almost always.

So for the love of Albert B. Rampage and F-16 Fighting Falcon, please unvote Thor before he is quick-hammered by a buddy that wants to end discussion early.

[zakk]

Thank you, Garmr.

[zakk]

I would like to share some things from my re-read and my notes.

Sadly, GuthrieGov/F-16 was my top town read. That will now be rather useless. At least he's netted us one scum with his sacrifice. I recommend we go back and read his posts to figure out who else he suspected. Finding out Maxous' suspicions are actually probably even more important, because we know for sure he was killed for some reason or another, and that's as good a reason to kill somebody as any else, I suppose.

I have a strong town read on toolenduso. I know it didn't seem like that at first, and I certainly didn't help that out by sporadically posting prod dodges where I continually fingered him and Garmr as scum, but hey, after reading up, he's now sitting at the top of the stack after F-16's death. Why is he a strong town read, you ask? He has been asking good questions, seeming naive about things that I would expect town to seem naive about, doing his research; in stark contrast to ABR, who pretended to do research on Thor, toolenduso actually DID research on Thor and posted #265 which impressed me greatly. And even though I was being overly harsh on him at the beginning (mostly due to having nothing else to sink my teeth into), his first few posts were actually not that independently scummy and I feel like they are consistent with the rest of his behavior. It's vaguely possible that he is just playing us like a fiddle and has us completely hoodwinked, but I have more trust in my gut feelings than that. I will not lynch toolenduso and would recommend that nobody else lynch him either, should I die at any point.

Next on my list is Garmr. Yes. I know what you're thinking. The two people I have had as mafia all game are now my top two town reads. Well, there it is. And it is what it is. So I'm not ashamed of it. The reasoning behind that one is less solid than toolenduso, and far less solid than F-16 was. I have him down as "far too sloppy to be mafia" and his posts definitely prove it. I don't feel like he is posting just to post, and I don't feel as if his posts have a scummy ulterior motive to them. They feel pretty genuine for the most part, and though he tries to be useful and isn't really, most of the time, at least he seems to be trying. I liked his commentary on ABR early on in the game where he compared ABR's play to other games. I also really liked the comment he made in #171: "this might sound rich but I think there are scum on my wagon." That just really really doesn't feel to me like something that scum would think to say. It sounds hilariously town.

IceNinja comes next (regardless of what I said about about Thor wanting him dead, which might mean Thor believes he is rival scum of some kind). He seems to think things through a little better than Garmr and generally comes across as pro-town, but there are less eureka moments when I read his posts. I really liked early on when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought. I also liked #267, and especially #268. I don't want to lynch IceNinja for now.

I have havingfitz and Elyse's player slots as rather more null. I have to read more of their (and their predecessor's) posts. I liked TCold's #63 about Sir Bastion, and Macros' #136 about Garmr though. Whether or not I agree with them is another thing entirely, but I liked the way those posts came across. They sounded genuine enough and/or made good points.

Slandaar is sitting in a volatile spot for me. I can't really read him too well. I think his early attack on Thor could have been elaborate bussing, but we'll see how he acts when Thor is dead. If he starts finding other scum immediately I can't say I will hate that in the least. And if scum decides to kill him off, at least it will rid us of a pretty WIFOMy slot which has strong ties to Thor. I may get a better read on him after reading some of his later posts though. So stay tuned.

I've got pretty much nothing on Axxle/Skelda. I have read more than half the game but I've only seen a few posts by Axxle, and though I liked his early post about Garmr, I have since come to disagree with the read I had on Garmr because of it, and I didn't feel particularly strongly one way or the other on any of the other posts I've read. This is another one of those reads you'll have to stay tuned on.

Maxous wasn't very high on my list of town reads, so I'm glad he died. That saves me a lot of trouble. It's also going to be a gold mine going back through his posts and finding out what he thought about whom.

The last two players in the game are Sir Bastion and Thor. They are the only two players I had scum reads on, and they are (or were) both very strong scum reads. I wish F-16 hadn't (presumably) suicided on Thor last night, because he was a clear choice to lynch today anyway, what with how scummy he was Day 1, and also given ABR's final wishes. I guess it made sense to him to give town a little more security in their decision, and perhaps he thought Thor could wiggle his way out of it yet again, but either way I wish he wouldn't have done it, as he was my strongest town read while he was alive. So, Thor being scum is a foregone conclusion by this point, but that leaves Sir Bastion.

I have a scum read on Sir Bastion for a number of reasons, most of which were early on in the game. He has since come back towards the middle of the scale somewhat, but I would still much rather lynch him than anyone else (except Thor) at this point. I am quite willing to be convinced that he is not scum, in fact, I have a note saying that if Thor is scum, he is less likely to be... not sure why I thought that, but it's in my notes under both Thor and Sir Bastion. Anyway, post 16 felt very contrived, post 26 was a soft-defend of Thor, 37 seemed to imply that he had nothing better to do than ignore certain people while waiting for others to post, 40 brings up how he was town in other games (as if to imply he is town here, or at least plant some kind of subconscious seed), and it also brings up something solely in order to be able to say "buuut, I'm not going to talk about it here" which is sketchy at best. he also spouts game theory in that post which seems unnecessary. I don't like in post 42 where he says "assuming I don't?" because that is a giant deflection. more unnecessary game theory in post 45. Jumping over to 112, he sticks with a vote on GuthrieGov while admitting his reasoning is shallow. He also questions GG in 113 to find out if GG thinks poorly of him. That's a weird thing for a townie to do. In post 168 he appears to have a good catch, but I don't like the way he talks about it as if it's only in passing, and seems detached, with his ellipses (...) and it feels like he's trying to point out awkward things about somebody in order to get others to latch onto them and do the dirty work of lynching them for him. Post 182 complains about having to slog through the Thor/Slandaar noisefest again, but it almost seems like he's not actually going to do it, he just wants people to think he is, so they'll think he's trying to be useful. Whether or not that's the case here, I don't like the attitude of trying to show off the things you're doing to help the game, and it feels off to me. I wrote under that point "Let's see if he comes up with anything worthwhile or is just posturing" and I don't have any notes after that which cancel out that sentiment. So clearly that's bad, and supports my idea that he never actually did re-read it, he just tried to snag some town credit for saying he was going to. 234 is a bunch of words with disproportionately little actual analysis of what was said, and it seemed to me like he was making a larger post in order to try to keep up the amount of posts he had at a competitive level with those who were posting the most in the game, solely for the sake of being seen as being active by other people.

To put it all into a few sentences (in case you weren't following along and looking at the posts, which you really should do), here's the case: He appears to be very aware and very concerned about what others think of him. He appears to be trying to plant thoughts into other people's subconscious to get them to feel certain ways about him and others, and that's not something town does. They are quite a bit more blunt about it. Kind of like I'm being right now, actually. And also, I just get a pretty good gut feeling that he's not one of the good guys, and that's always a nice cherry on top of the icing for me. So, logically speaking, we should lynch him after Thor.

But now, I want to read what everyone else thinks, and I'd like to finish reading the rest of the game before everyone else pummels Thor into the dust where he belongs. I want to be able to solidify my reads on certain people and develop reads on the people where I'm a little sparse on notes. Because I never feel very comfortable not having a stance on somebody. That makes me suspect them, and I don't like it when I suspect more people than can logically be scum in the game.

I think that's pretty much it. Hope this post was useful to you.

[zakk]

tl;dr Don't lynch Thor yet. Let's discuss things. Sir Bastion is next most likely scum. Don't lynch toolenduso or Garmr any time soon. Or me. R.I.P. F-16, Maxous, and ABR.

[N]

Vote Count 2.01

havingfitz

(0)

ICEninja

(1) Thor665

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(1) ICEninja

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(3) Elyse, toolenduso, Sir Bastion

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz, zakk, Garmr, Slandaar, Skelda

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-05 22:21:57)

[ICEninja]

Alright I've finally got a bit of time to dig in to things a bit.

I really don't see the Bastian scum thing. ABR didn't really say very much about why he thought he was scum, and if we're already assuming scum Thor, then scum Bastian makes a lot less sense considering the vote count. There was AT MOST 2 scum on Albert's wagon. I feel like our best bet is one of the not voting (though it's hard to say because fitz hadn't even content posted yet at the time of the hammer and zakk was so far behind) and the 3rd is kind of a wild card, but I doubt it was someone pressuring Albert early on.

Garmr feels like the best bet if there were 2 scum on the wagon for a few reasons. One, Garmr was hesitant to jump on the wagon. He was supporting it from the sidelines, and keeping his vote as far away from Thor's as possible. In his 524 he forgot who replaced who, which I've always found a slight scum tell because town needs to pay more attention to who is who in finding scum, whereas scum already knows everyone's alignment anyway.

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

I feel like a scumflip from Thor (and even moreso a PR scum flip from Thor) would clear Elyse, as the hider catch wasn't super obvious to me. I don't think scum would do that to a buddy right out of the gates, especially a strong player like Thor.

I really want to hear from fitz and Skelda though. I had a scum read on both Axxle and TCold, though both are somewhat mild scum reads considering how much the game advanced. I really feel like one of these two is probably scum though.

If I had to call a scum team out right now it would be Thor, Garmr, and one of fitz/Skelda. If I have to pick one, leaning fitz.

[ICEninja]

If Slandaar is town I want to apologize a bit for being so rude on D1, especially since it seems like you're right.

That being said, if you're town, i

very much

expect some new content from you.

I also don't see any reason to lynch tool currently, so that should pretty much cover my current opinions on anyone. Feel free to ask me questions if anyone wants anything deeper on any particular player.

[Garmr]

Alright I've finally got a bit of time to dig in to things a bit.

I really don't see the Bastian scum thing. ABR didn't really say very much about why he thought he was scum, and if we're already assuming scum Thor, then scum Bastian makes a lot less sense considering the vote count. There was AT MOST 2 scum on Albert's wagon. I feel like our best bet is one of the not voting (though it's hard to say because fitz hadn't even content posted yet at the time of the hammer and zakk was so far behind) and the 3rd is kind of a wild card, but I doubt it was someone pressuring Albert early on.

Garmr feels like the best bet if there were 2 scum on the wagon for a few reasons. One, Garmr was hesitant to jump on the wagon. He was supporting it from the sidelines, and keeping his vote as far away from Thor's as possible. In his 524 he forgot who replaced who, which I've always found a slight scum tell because town needs to pay more attention to who is who in finding scum, whereas scum already knows everyone's alignment anyway.

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

I feel like a scumflip from Thor (and even moreso a PR scum flip from Thor) would clear Elyse, as the hider catch wasn't super obvious to me. I don't think scum would do that to a buddy right out of the gates, especially a strong player like Thor.

I really want to hear from fitz and Skelda though. I had a scum read on both Axxle and TCold, though both are somewhat mild scum reads considering how much the game advanced. I really feel like one of these two is probably scum though.

If I had to call a scum team out right now it would be Thor, Garmr, and one of fitz/Skelda. If I have to pick one, leaning fitz.

Ice you didn't read did you I said I was willing to hammer ABR but didn't want the day to end earlier. Also you were agreeing with thor and pushing The ABR case pretty hard. At the end of the debate I decided Slandaar was town and Thor was Town the Thor read changing today because of the night actions. Also forgetting who replaced in is a scum sign??? That's a really big reach there and doesn't make sense since forgetting things is not really alignment indicative and is more up to the players personality.

Also you were using the shame tactics to keep votes on ABR

You unvoted without voting Albert.

I'm feeling more confident of my vote now.

The last one was a response to maxous I believe his trying to continue his shamming tactics by saying you look scummy if you don't vote ABR.

Also would like to say Maxous would of been the obvious person to kill by using occam's razor as everyone accepted him as town. Also in response to you saying that he was suspicious of me and that's the reason his dead. It could also be that scum knew was suspicious of me and killed him to set up a mislynch day 2 to stop thor from being lynched. This could end up in a allot of wifom like you said yourself which is why I wonder why you'd even bring it up in the first place.

Most of your case is really big stretch through ice.

[ICEninja]

Ice you didn't read did you I said I was willing to hammer ABR but didn't want the day to end earlier.

I stand by my theory that you're scum trying to keep your vote as far away from Thor's as possible. Can't have yourself associated with him now, can you? You were pushing the case from the sidelines, which is scummy as hell considering he flipped town.

Also forgetting who replaced in is a scum sign??? That's a really big reach there and doesn't make sense since forgetting things is not really alignment indicative and is more up to the players personality.

I admitted it was a small point, but in order for town to have solid reads on people and to find scum they kind of need to know who is who. Scum doesn't have to pay quite as much attention. Any time a player demonstrates they haven't read things thoroughly it's a small but noteworthy scum tell in my eyes.

Also would like to say Maxous would of been the obvious person to kill by using occam's razor as everyone accepted him as town.

F-16, myself, and Bastian were all considered fairly town at the end of the day. Why him? Also, I brought it up mostly for the town points on zakk, the fact that everything makes sense for you to be scum was just an extra benefit that I realized while talking about zakk.

Most of my case on you is just that you being scum makes a lot of sense. There's also some process of elimination. With 3 dead town, one very very probable scum, and several players I'm pretty sure aren't scum, the logical conclusion is you along with one of the two replacements.

Each point individually is weak, therefore my case looks like a stretch, but as a whole I think you're a damn good bet for scum. I also admit a decent part of my scum read hinges on Thor being scum, so I'd like him lynched before you. But if he flips scum, we've got a lot of people who probably aren't scum. And you ain't one of them.

[Garmr]

Ice you didn't read did you I said I was willing to hammer ABR but didn't want the day to end earlier.

I stand by my theory that you're scum trying to keep your vote as far away from Thor's as possible. Can't have yourself associated with him now, can you? You were pushing the case from the sidelines, which is scummy as hell considering he flipped town.

Also forgetting who replaced in is a scum sign??? That's a really big reach there and doesn't make sense since forgetting things is not really alignment indicative and is more up to the players personality.

I admitted it was a small point, but in order for town to have solid reads on people and to find scum they kind of need to know who is who. Scum doesn't have to pay quite as much attention. Any time a player demonstrates they haven't read things thoroughly it's a small but noteworthy scum tell in my eyes.

Also would like to say Maxous would of been the obvious person to kill by using occam's razor as everyone accepted him as town.

F-16, myself, and Bastian were all considered fairly town at the end of the day. Why him? Also, I brought it up mostly for the town points on zakk, the fact that everything makes sense for you to be scum was just an extra benefit that I realized while talking about zakk.

Most of my case on you is just that you being scum makes a lot of sense. There's also some process of elimination. With 3 dead town, one very very probable scum, and several players I'm pretty sure aren't scum, the logical conclusion is you along with one of the two replacements.

Each point individually is weak, therefore my case looks like a stretch, but as a whole I think you're a damn good bet for scum. I also admit a decent part of my scum read hinges on Thor being scum, so I'd like him lynched before you. But if he flips scum, we've got a lot of people who probably aren't scum. And you ain't one of them.

1. You missed the point entirely. I thought slandaar and thor were TVT at the time so tell me the town motivation for pushing either one of them? Also with the ABR case I said his my 2nd scum read Town players pressure their number 1 scum reads.


2. That's pretty horrible as I said it all boils down to a players personality. Some people are really forgetful or don't even notice small things. In rl if someone forgot what a murder said in front of them as they killed someone does that mean they are lying and they are the actual murderer? This is why your point 2 Is horrible.


3. F-16 was pretty town but Maxous was way more Towny than him because of the person f 16 subbed (Guntheir) for plus f-16 is dead and confirmed town, Sir bastion in my eyes was town but as you can see from today he has had some suspicion on him so that rop him from the obvious town pool, Finally we get to you, Ice your the only one who actually thinks your obvious town no one else does Lol. Through the process of elimination the obvious town is maxous.


Also you just admitted all the points are weak and from what I can tell a couple of weak points doesn't = a strong case.

[Slandaar]

If Slandaar is town I want to apologize a bit for being so rude on D1, especially since it seems like you're right.

That being said, if you're town, i

very much

expect some new content from you.

I also don't see any reason to lynch tool currently, so that should pretty much cover my current opinions on anyone. Feel free to ask me questions if anyone wants anything deeper on any particular player.

You need to buddy me harder than that Icey Icey.

Yes it's pretty clear he's scum of some kind but let's try to figure out if it's possible we're dealing with two killing factions here at least, first. Could there be a serial killer or a second mafia group? Is it possible that Thor is town and one of them killed F-16 to frame him?

I realize this will probably bring a lot of suspicion on me to even suggest that,

Yep.

but I feel like everyone is too excited to lynch something that seems like a sure thing, and I want to holster our guns and realize that the people who were killed died for a reason. Who did Maxous suspect? Who else did F-16 suspect? Who else did Albert suspect?

Thor, Thor, Thor.

Well that was easy.

IceNinja comes next (regardless of what I said about about Thor wanting him dead, which might mean Thor believes he is rival scum of some kind). He seems to think things through a little better than Garmr and generally comes across as pro-town, but there are less eureka moments when I read his posts. I really liked early on when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought. I also liked #267, and especially #268. I don't want to lynch IceNinja for now.

Of course you don't... for now.

Slandaar is sitting in a volatile spot for me. I can't really read him too well. I think his early attack on Thor could have been elaborate bussing, but we'll see how he acts when Thor is dead. If he starts finding other scum immediately I can't say I will hate that in the least. And if scum decides to kill him off, at least it will rid us of a pretty WIFOMy slot which has strong ties to Thor. I may get a better read on him after reading some of his later posts though. So stay tuned.

What? How is my slot WIFOMy? Thor is scum I am town pretty straight forward.

May aswell save you some time: You died.

[Slandaar]

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

Yep.

Preeeetty WIFOM.

I like how you know that but still try and use it in some way. Max was the obvious kill doesn't matter who is scum. That's it.

[Slandaar]

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

VOTE: Thor

Lynch Ice tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

Oh yeah ICE kept trying to direct the wagon onto me yesterday because I was a more valuable target for scum but never led the way. He knew ABR dies today due to VT claim etc and knew he was not an issue so was continually trying to shift wagons when ABR was his top scumread.

He is scum.

He will be lynched tomorrow, don't even think, I will be dead just vote him sheeping me.

[Garmr]

Slandaar while I do agree with your case shouldn't we wait till the other players place say something. We have to get a response from TCold and havingfitz now. Then I think we should go for that lynch after everyone's spoken Thor's 100 percent getting lynched today so we can milk the week.

[Slandaar]

Milking the week? What for? their content doesn't change todays outcome so they can post tomorrow and have another whole night to ensure they are caught up.

Lynch Lynch Lynch.

Here I even will provide you with the post to vote Iceninja tomorrow. Just click quote remove the quote tags and submit!

VOTE: ICENINJA

I am so generous.

[Slandaar]

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

Which implies you know what a hider does.

Ouch.

I hope you like my new content Ice I am posting it just for you!

[Slandaar]

when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought.

Nope it shows how he is thinking about how his actions will be perceived which comes from scum a lot more than town.

If he does it as town he definitely does as scum it doesn't work the other way round.

See?

[havingfitz]

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

How can you typically lynch hiders if you've never encountered one

Thor is today's lynch. I'll hold off voting for the time being as I don't know the VC atm and it will be fun to watch him wifom others.

[Slandaar]

But if he flips scum

IF?

If Thor flips scum?

There is no if. If he doesn't you are scum so from your POV he IS scum.

You are dead sunshine.

[Slandaar]

Reinvigorated is the term I believe.

[Thor665]

I dont need to make a vow to you because my intentions towards ICE are damn clear already.

So....basically you are refusing to make the vow.
I mean, when I flip town what are you planning to do? If the answer is 'lynch Ice' then how about you make the vow? If the answer is 'lynch random other player' why don't you justify that one out?

As for the *dire circumstances* yes thor is town is the obvious and clear elephant in the room. But it needs to be 100% thor is town, not *I tracked thor and he went nowhere last night, he cant have killed Maxous* which is of no help and just lets someone out of the bag unnecessarily But there are other blatantly obvious results that might be of dire importance such as *I tracked XXX to Maxous last night* which isnt a confirmation of what we know but obviously really important information.

but unvote you damn idiot.

Says...a guy voting me...who could unvote...if he actually thought this was important.

Are you Ice's buddy?
I feel like you're Ice's buddy.

The vows a little bit stupid through as in F16 case he knew he would die if you were scum and it was a crumb of his night actions your vow on ice isn't anything to do with your actions?

Since I am town it seems highly likely that Ice was who he ended up targeting.
That's why I want the Ice lynch before I go - so make the vow.

Yes it's pretty clear he's scum of some kind but let's try to figure out if it's possible we're dealing with two killing factions here at least, first. Could there be a serial killer or a second mafia group? Is it possible that Thor is town and one of them killed F-16 to frame him?

If you even begin to believe that is possible then it destroys the entire case on me.

One thing that struck me as odd was that Thor was trying to get people to kill IceNinja after he died. Why? Could it possibly because Thor knows that his scum faction didn't aim for Maxous, and that it might be another kill attempt that hit him? And he suspects IceNinja might be scum of another team?

Like this - it literally makes no sense if you think a scum team could have killed Falcon.
Derpa-derpa.

tl;dr Don't lynch Thor yet. Let's discuss things. Sir Bastion is next most likely scum. Don't lynch toolenduso or Garmr any time soon. Or me. R.I.P. F-16, Maxous, and ABR.

Sir Bastion and me as scum?
Yeeeeah, that makes sense.

Would you make a vow that when I flip town you'll lynch Ice?

But if he flips scum

IF?

If Thor flips scum?

There is no if. If he doesn't you are scum so from your POV he IS scum.

You are dead sunshine.

Oh, hey, look, Slandaar has figured something out.
Yes.
Yo, Slandaar, you want to make the vow? It will give you everything you wanted - a chance to lynch me *and* an actual good lynch thereafter.

[Slandaar]

Yes I take the vow.

[Thor665]

^^^
Town.

Of course I'd already said that, but. y'know, nice to see.