Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)

[zMuffinMan]

I need one more confirmation before I can officially OMGUS littlegrey. Hurry up, guys.

[Quilford]

/confirm

[MrBump]

Hoopla, what post?

We have ten confirmations; the game begins!

Vote Count 1.00

Not Voting:

glowball, andrew94, swankidelic, DarkFlashlight, neil1113, Hoopla, zMuffinMan, Amrun, Oversoul, Quilford, LittleGrey, jakesh97

With twelve alive, it takes

seven

to lynch! The deadline is on the 8th of July at 9:42 GMT!

[glowball]

Awesome!

RVS

Vote: Hoopla

For giving the Mod all kinds of grief about

bolding

MOD: V/LA through the 21st

[Hoopla]

I have a question to ask the town before we begin.

If there was/is a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning through a massclaim and synchronization of actions, would you be in favour of doing so?

[zMuffinMan]

I think that should be dicussed at the end of D1, not at the beginning.

VOTE: andrew obvscum is soo soooooo obvious.

[Quilford]

I have a question to ask the town before we begin.

If there was/is a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning through a massclaim and synchronization of actions, would you be in favour of doing so?

Yep.

[Quilford]

oh and

VOTE: andrew because I don't like him >_>

[jakesh97]

VOTE: Quilford

hai there.

[Amrun]

I wouldn't mind a massclaim - if one has never been tried before.

The previous hard boiled was the first one town ever won, so if this is a new idea for this set up, I'll consider it (but not necessarily agree).

But I am slightly worried because I've seen Hooplascum manipulate the numbers before... She is the queen of numbers.

[Amrun]

But I agree that a massclaim shuldnt happen until we have some gameplay with which to judge counterclaims etc

[neil1113]

A massclaim at the beginning of the game? I feel like that'd kind of ruin the game on a lot of levels, plus it'd give the scum the chance to know who to kill. We'd have our Power Roles out'd and most likely gone by Day 3.

[LittleGrey]

RVS vote: Hoopla

I need one more confirmation before I can officially OMGUS littlegrey. Hurry up, guys.

Is it really an OMGUS vote if I only FOSed you before the game had officially started? Interesting to know how you kept the same vote for confirmation stage and RVS. What's your reason to vote for Andrew both times?

Grey, you've got to be kidding me! You're FoSing someone for voting before the game started, yet you'd turn around and FoS someone before the game starts? Then you clear Jake because of his anxiety to play the game, but it's okay that he's jumpy to start due to the fact that... he admitted? I hope this isn't how you actually plan on playing this game.

Jake was obviously jumpy. Now I'm wondering whether his vote was really random, or if there was a hidden motive to it.

But Muffin would have read Jake's post acknowledging that the game hadn't started yet, and shouldn't have voted. That's why I'm thinking he could be scum.

[swankidelic]

preview edit:

FoS: neil1113

for stating the obvious. I think that's page 32 of "Looking Like Town for Dummies."

There are enough VT that scum can foil counterclaim efforts. If we are going to massclaim, we should wait a day or two to shake some of that out. We can delay the massclaim by a day or two and if no PRs die a massclaim might be feasible; otherwise it's foolish (probably scummy) to suggest massclaiming on D1. I dunno. I really don't see a lot of utility in massclaiming; I don't want to massclaim unless it practically hands town a win on a silver platter.

Also, VOTE: Quilford for jumping on that shit without any discussion. Ugh.

[Oversoul]

/confirm

[zMuffinMan]

My idea for claiming is this: basically just the Hider/HT/det-psych claiming and the hider/det-psych co-ordinating night actions. This narrows scum down to a pool of 9 players and also means PRs can avoid each other (with the exception of the vig-tracker). Lynch one. Hider hides behind another (who he/she announces before nightfall). det-psych and vig-tracker would check/kill whoever they want of the remaining. Scum will target the det-psych first prob, then assuming the hider dies we can go from there. Worst-case scenario is that we go into MyLo D2, but that's happened before and turned out well, so 'sall G. Best case scenario, PRs rock scum and we win, gg.

Scum really cannot counter-claim in this setup, so I don't think counter-claims will be an issue, but if they happen, it can be discussed if/when it happens.

Anyway, I figured I'd lay this idea out here as a basis for discussion, BUT I don't think it should actually happen until much later in the day.

Also a good discussion point is whether or not the vig-tracker should choose to be a vig or a tracker. I personally prefer vig. As long as the vig doesn't take out the det-psych N1 with the hider hiding behind her, I think it's a much better choice than tracker. Although it depends on the D1 lynch, really. If scum is lynched, Tracker might be a better option.

What's your reason to vote for Andrew both times?

Well I voted andrew in confirmation because he's scum, and I revoted him after confirmation because the mod is a meanie who didn't count the confirmation vote.

But Muffin would have read Jake's post acknowledging that the game hadn't started yet, and shouldn't have voted. That's why I'm thinking he could be scum.

Is there any basis for thinking I'm scum, here? Like games you've seen this happen, or any real reason it's more likely I'm scum than town because of this?

[swankidelic]

I don't buy it. Scum can totally counterclaim effectively. If they CC a tracker or hider tracker it screws up our D2. Furthermore your plan kills the det/psych without letting them report a read.

[zMuffinMan]

The tracker wouldn't be claiming D1, so this isn't an issue.

CCing hider tracker could be an issue. Solution: Hider-tracker claims first (no other claims). If there's a counter-claim, hider should not claim (only the real hider tracker will know who the hider hides behind).

[DarkFlashlight]

Dayum, you guys confirm fast.

/confirm

If there was/is a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning through a massclaim and synchronization of actions, would you be in favour of doing so?

If this is solely hypothetical, it's null. No one's going to say no because rejecting, "a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning," is lolwut. If it's not hypothetical, then feel free to elaborate.

Hoopla, I think you've confused quite a few people. Were you intending for the massclaim to happen D1?


VOTE: neil1113

A massclaim at the beginning of the game? I feel like that'd kind of ruin the game on a lot of levels, plus it'd give the scum the chance to know who to kill. We'd have our Power Roles out'd and most likely gone by Day 3.

You realize everyone knows that, right?

preview edit: FoS: neil1113 for stating the obvious. I think that's page 32 of "Looking Like Town for Dummies."

Oh, so you've read it also?

[MrBump]

All players have confirmed!

Vote Count 1.01

Hoopla - 2

(glowball, LittleGrey)

andrew94 - 2

(zMuffinMan, Quilford)

Quilford - 2

(jakesh97, swankidelic)

neil1113 - 1

(DarkFlashlight)

Not Voting:

andrew94, neil1113, Hoopla, Amrun, Oversoul

With twelve alive, it takes

seven

to lynch! The deadline is on the 8th of July at 9:42 GMT!

glowball is currently V/LA.

[Amrun]

VOTE: LittleGrey

You FoS someone pre-game and then RVS vote someone else while maintaining your FoS might be scum?

Hell. No.


Also, zmuffin, don't rub it in.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, I think you've confused quite a few people. Were you intending for the massclaim to happen D1?

I believe there is a method claiming/organising actions that will yield the town a very strong chance of winning. I'm mostly inquiring about people's reservations because I know there would be some who think it would cheapen the game, even if it were favourable. Personally, the reason I joined this game was on the hope I was town, so I could try and break this game.

Anyway, I figured I'd lay this idea out here as a basis for discussion, BUT I don't think it should actually happen until much later in the day.

This is true - I also want to get some information on the table first, so we're not just randomly picking a player to lynch from the pool of VT's.

~~

Mild town read on neil from his opening post - displays a lack of understanding that would be ignorant and reckless to post as scum. If he were scum who feared a massclaim plan, I'd expect a more calculated or rhetoric-based response to quell the idea, as opposed to nonsense.

Muffinman's post of laying down a massclaim plan, and investing effort in brainstorming the net value of such a plan indicates an eagerness to corner scum - an inherently town motivated action. If he were scum, he'd have had to have thought about the true consequences much longer, found a loophole or theory that gives scum decent chances of winning, and pass it off as a town-looking plan OR be game enough to make a big bluff and push scum into a suboptimal plan (for them) and try and ride off town points for being pro-plan. I think neither of those situations are as likely as Muffinman being town.

Mildly suspicious of swankidelic for his early attempts to shut down a massclaim idea. Could just be town not prepared/capable of understanding the benefits of a plan, or scum understanding the benefits and wanting out. Post 38 reads slightly artificially, in particular the language shaping the vote for Quilford.

Amrun's reluctance is understandable, given the knowledge she has of some of my scumplay. Luckily there are no numbers in this game!

~ Early days, I know, but this is how I'm seeing things so far.

[Amrun]

Hoopla (and all) what do you think of littlegrey's vote shenanigams?

I am interested in hearing Hoopla's gamebreaking plan for evaluation.

[swankidelic]

It sounds like you think I'm scummy for not trusting you with your plan, and you think Muffin is townie for considering it. Frankly, the way Muffin analyzed and presented your plan makes him sound scummy.

You sound genuine in your desire to break the setup, though. I'm tempted to give up hopes of winning and follow through with your proposed experiment. In the end, I don't really have any metaknowledge of you, I simply don't trust you.

[swankidelic]

Re: LittleGrey - I'm not sure why she RVS vote when she has a suspicion. She even calls it an RVS vote, which to me is just.... wonky. There's enough content now, there's no need to cast an RVS vote.