Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)

[Quilford]

/confirm

[Quilford]

I have a question to ask the town before we begin.

If there was/is a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning through a massclaim and synchronization of actions, would you be in favour of doing so?

Yep.

[Quilford]

oh and

VOTE: andrew because I don't like him >_>

[Quilford]

Whoops, I forgot I was in this game.

I understand and agree to Hoopla's plan.

[Quilford]

I promise to stop procrastinating on this game soon.

I have holidays beginning this Friday, so I'll be on as much as I can then.

[Quilford]

Would it be more beneficial to claim PR instead of specific PR (obv. vig doesn't claim) and then go from there?

[Quilford]

Oh okay I see now.

[Quilford]

btw, that is the longest episode of anime ever, jakesh. Or you got a bottle of water that's like 100 litres or something. Either way, it's probably not a good thing.

And I forgot to claim. Shrek. But I think the mod gave me a bad fakeclaim here because Shrek isn't a disney movie afaik.

In advance, I will be mostly V/LA from Friday to Sunday. I apologise for the inconvenience.

Yeah, I dun goofed. Game broke restart

... did I miss something?

[Quilford]

I

will

be getting down on Friday.

[Quilford]

I started at the start of the thread and made notes along the way:

---

Confirmation / RVS

#4-5: jakesh is overly apologetic (newbtell?)
#7: Possible buddying from LittleGrey re: jakesh's mistake (scumtell)
#60: jakesh notices this, incorrectly calls LittleGrey a VI (towntell)

#10, 12, 30: towntells from zMuffin's boldness

#14-5: glowball continues zMuffin's fluffing (newbtell? or eager scum?),
#16: as does neil1113 (scumtell + lolsmilietell)

#18: LittleGrey... FoS zMuffin but not jakesh for voting in confirmation because the latter 'admitted his mistake'? wut
then goes on to post a read on jakesh and then immediately say 'but I could be wrong' (scumtell)
#19: neil's response to this post by LittleGrey looks totally insincere

#20: Hoopla ignores all the previous (nulltell, but if she's scum I think her partners would be in {jakesh, LittleGrey, zMuffin, neil1113, glowball})

---

Pre-Massclaim Discussion

#36: neil states the obvious re: massclaim (null/scumtell)
#38: swankidelic calls him out on it (towntell)

#37: LittleGrey furthers my scumread on him by asking dumb questions 'What's your reason to vote for Andrew [before and after confirmation]?' (clearly stated it was a policy vote), and making what I like to call floating statements 'Now I'm wondering whether [jakesh's confirmation] vote was really random, or if there was a hidden motive to it.' which are accusations disguised as stream-of-consciousness. Also he says he thinks Muffin is scum for not realising it was the Confirmation Stage and yet still voting despite jakesh's mistake (massive scumtell).

Also yeah, she RVS' when she's already expressed suspicions of people.

#38: Swankidelic fails to point out the above flaws in LittleGrey's post despite definitely seeing it - he Preview Edited (PEdited) neil's post (scumtell)
#45: Amrun points out the underlined, indicating she is paying close attention (towntell)

#46: Overlong townread on zMuffin from Hoopla (possible buddytell, but at this point I don't consider either scummy)
#48: swankadelic points out Hoopla's possible bias to people who follow her plan (town/nulltell)

#61: Oversoul points out a softclaim (wut), then again it indicates he's been close reading (null/scumtell)

#69: DarkFlashlight rants about jakesh calling LittleGrey a VI (tentative towntell)

---

Massclaim Discussion

(excluding the actual statistical discussion)
#91: Amrun - 'And if the scum kill the HT, then we get a spych/det result AND we know there's scum in that VT pool so we just kill it until it's dead.' Terrible, terrible WIFOM. (null/scumtell)

#110: I get the feeling that neil isn't paying too much attention to the massclaim plan and just piggybacking the reasons why it shouldn't happen (scumtell)

#132: glowball doesn't seem bothered to try and comprehend the plan (null/scumtell)
#134: andrew's simple post 'i don't like glowball' is daring as scum because it averts all the discussion that has been taking place while not explaining a read (towntell)

#141-3: getting scumvibes off Amrun AND Glowball (mainly Amrun) from their discussion here; if one flips scum I would probably regard the other as clearish

#149: 'What's your take on how easy the vig could get

lynched

/ pointed out if all the scum hide in the no-claim pool?' yup, neil definitely isn't paying attention (scumtell)

#173: DarkFlashlight beats the dead horse's

zombie

(scumtell)

Page 7: Glowball's giving off frustrated / angry town reads.

#182: LittleGrey's concerns are terrible (scumtell)

#192: DarkFlashlight makes the case that Glowball hasn't been reading the thread, but misses all the posts that indicate neil also hasn't being doing so... (scumtell)

#198:

Amrun - 'definitely implying prior knowledge that Hoopla is town.' Explain how this was the case.

Jumps on the super easy target of Glowball, buddies up to Hoopla and the whole post feels insincere (scumread)

#203: neil preempts getting flac for not paying attention (scumread)

#218: andrew is still being annoyingly minimalist and not posting content; here he jumps on something that is clearly not a slip (nullread)

#350-5: Townpoints for all but Hoopla. Glowball's point is good.

Page 15: Oversoul and glowball gain town points; Oversoul makes good cases and glowball is being way too bold to be scum (and if he is, neil is probs buddy)

#381: this post confirms two things 1) glowball is an idiot 2) glowball plays on epicmafia

---

Questions

Amrun / Hoopla

: 'But I am slightly worried because I've seen Hooplascum manipulate the numbers before...' Link please.

zMuffinMan

: link to other games in which you have partaken in setup discussion, please

---

Conclusions

• LittleGrey is most scummy.
• Neil is very scummy.
• Amrun and Swankidelic are scummy.
• Hoopla, DarkFlashlight and andrew are all null.
• jakesh and glowball could swing either nullscum or nulltown. I can't decide which.
• Oversoul and zMuffin are townie.

VOTE: LittleGrey

[Quilford]

Still trying to rush things, Neil?

What are you implying?

[Quilford]

and making what I like to call floating statements 'Now I'm wondering whether [jakesh's confirmation] vote was really random, or if there was a hidden motive to it.' which are accusations disguised as stream-of-consciousness.

don't do it, oversoul

you will receive scumpoints

[Quilford]

Oversoul: thoughts on my catchup post?

[Quilford]

Oversoul: thoughts on my catchup post?

Why are you so concerned with what people think about it?

herp derp amrun

generally town players like to reach a consensus on each other's reads

how about you stop jumping to conclusions?

[Quilford]

Generally, town players are not so concerned with appearances.

1) Floating statement.
2) lol how was I concerned with my appearance?
3) lol

Are you scum in this game,

too

?

[Quilford]

how about you stop jumping to conclusions?

[Quilford]

Looks like he's showing a lot of work only to jump on the LittleGrey wagon.

Do you think the reasoning behind me jumping on the LittleGrey wagon is invalid? If not, what was the point of this statement?

I'm not sure I like Quilford's wall. I don't think his approach is effective, I'm not sure if looking at a person's iso granularly instead of holistically is useful. It appears that he's just rating posts on a scale of 1 to 5 and summing them up to produce a scum score or something. Looks fluffy

1) when did I even /mention/ ISOs?
2) how does it appear that I am rating posts and 'summing them up'?
3) have you read it? if so, how does it 'look fluffy'

#173: DarkFlashlight beats the dead horse's zombie (scumtell)

People are still baw'ing about this?

Excuse me? It's called a catchup post, and I was expressing my opinion. What's with that reaction? <-- not a rhetorical question

The way he gauges the scumminess of each individual post.

what
what
what
When is a gauge even mentioned? The comment in parentheses next to each opinion marks scummy or town-y posts

It could just be that he's learning and maturing through the game of Mafia, and is figuring out new tactics and ways to play that would make his effort more effective while playing. I don't think it'd be fair to attribute a new playing style that someone brings to the game, due to scumminess (or lack of).

this so comes from scum

Quilford didn't make any scum-hunting points, or any points at all actually. He simply posted his reactions and responses. There were no cases made, no points delivered, and no facts stated.

lolwut
explain please
I'm pretty sure that post contained cases and points as to why certain people were scummy and certain people were town; it just wasn't done in the typical manner of "write a massive paragraph about each individual player"

I was reflecting YOUR "floating statement."

You were anxious for what everyone thought about your wallpost, which was just your reactions to things, not a case on anyone. It is an action more likely to come from scum concerned with how townie they appear.

I don't think I've ever played a game as scum with you.

And what conclusions do you think I am leaping to?

holy shit, seriously?
You are leaping to the conclusion that me asking what people think of the post means I am concerned as to how I look.
I am asking what people thought of the post because I want to know whether the points I made are invalid or valid.


Amrun and zMuffin, I asked you both questions in my catch up post. Answer them.

[Quilford]

I'm concerned about the people on the LittleGrey wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: neil1113

[Quilford]

I'm concerned about the people on the LittleGrey wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: neil1113

Since when was defending someone scummy? And I'm not on the Grey wagon?

You didn't "defend", you turned into a friggin' CareBear and protected me with your own life.

You're not on the LittleGrey wagon, yes, but Amrun and Swank are and I want to hear their responses to my previous post before I feel comfortable voting Grey again.

[Quilford]

Not PR.

Here's the claims so far, latest to earliest in each list:

Not PR

Quilford
evilpacman18
neil1113
Hoopla
DarkFlashlight
Amrun

PR

zMuffinMan
Oversoul

[Quilford]

Andrew was on like 45 minutes ago but didn't post here; is LittleGrey within prod range?

[Quilford]

Here's the claims so far, latest to earliest in each list:

Not PR

andrew94
Quilford
evilpacman18
neil1113
Hoopla
DarkFlashlight
Amrun

PR

zMuffinMan
Oversoul

No Claim

glowball
LittleGrey
swankidelic

[Quilford]

I have seen swank lurking the forums several times.

'specially 62.

[Quilford]

ohmyGOD finallyyyy

[Quilford]

Unfortunately, I'm being dragged out to some place in the Australian outback for "family bonding" for about a week and a bit. Ergo, I'm not going to be able to post on this site. So I'm requesting replacement.

Mod, I've already put in a request in the related threads; don't worry about that side of things. It's the least I could do.

I apologise for the inconvenience caused, especially to this game which has already had its fair share of replacement drama.

[Quilford]

Silver replaced in and claimed PR, right? She was second last of all of us to claim, correct? Glowball then cc'd (which I think was an excellent move), and we have one more PR claim than we should.

If Silver's the fake PR then Swankedelic is almost certainly scum as well; she would have known that it was safe to claim the last PR slot without any chance of a cc, provided everyone was telling the truth (which Glow didn't).

[Quilford]

VOTE: Swankedelic

[Quilford]

Silver replaced in and claimed PR, right? She was second last of all of us to claim, correct? Glowball then cc'd (which I think was an excellent move), and we have one more PR claim than we should.

If Silver's the fake PR then Swankedelic is almost certainly scum as well; she would have known that it was safe to claim the last PR slot

without any chance of a cc, provided everyone was telling the truth (which Glow didn't).

I like this- it shows though. However, scum would have to know that someone

wasn't

telling the truth if there were only 2 claims when there were supposed to be 3. So although the possibility of Silver AND Swank being scum is a possibility it's more likely that Silver is scum by himself who possibly miscalculated the set up and thought everyone had already claimed or that scum is in an earlier claimer like zMuffinMan who was prepared to face a counterclaim or thought that one of us wouldn't claim.

I would like to follow through with the plan as a 3/4 split. I would also like to see who volunteers for the lynch pool. So, how does everyone feel about carrying on with the plan and leaving the PR sorting to the scum? Like I said, that fake claim will HAVE to eventually out himself if they start PR hunting they just narrow down the possibilities.

I thought of this too, but I think that scum would

leap

at the opportunity to claim an uncc'd PR slot under the impression that the actual other CC had merely misinterpreted the plan or forgotten to claim, or whatever. This may seem a little hard to believe from our point of view because we've been laboriously going over the plan for much of the game and as such it's pretty well embedded in our heads, but for a replacement it wouldn't take more than a few hours to skim the plan. They forget the actual timeframe that the events of the game took place over.

[Quilford]

Then again, my thoughts work the other way, too: scum have had longer to ponder the plan, so zMuffin claiming PR as scum makes a lot more sense than silver jumping into the game and claiming PR as scum.

[Quilford]

WE COULD JUST FUCKING NL.

RIGHT?

[Quilford]

VOTE: No Lynch
There's no way scum's going to volunteer to be lynched; I'd rather not mislynch if we can help it.

[Quilford]

Muffin can wait. Let's use the plan to our advantage. Hop over to Hoopla.

Not if Muffin keeps playing the way he's playing, he'll be doing the Mafia more of an advantage staying in then any of his other two teammates. Hoopla isn't doing anything anyway, with our luck she'll miss the deadline for the night and we'll have no night kill (besides the vig's.) And if the Vig goes for who we suspect to be the 3rd teammate, I believe this game could be wrapped up before Night 2 even gets here. Lynch Muffin Day 1, Kill 3rd member Night 1, Lynch Hoopla Day 2, and that'd be the game.

You're pretty confident for someone who's been whining about how discussing the plan has given us barely any accurate reads whatsoever:

VOTE: Muffinman

Do we not realize the deadline is in 4 days? Muffin is the only sure fire lynch I see here, because if anybody deserves to be lynched this game, it's this kid.

As far as other reads, I don't even know how to address this game. This isn't Mafia, this isn't the game played many times before, this is a plan that has completely reinvented the game and not exactly for the better. In the past 32 pages,

you know how many reads one could accurately assess from the information given? Maybe... MAYBE 2.

Everything else is luck, guessing, wifom, and all around bull crap. This is not how we play Mafia, and I'm fed up with this plan now. Let's start doing something as the town, and stop letting this "plan" hold us back for any longer. Also, I'm pretty sure Hoopla (when Muffin flips scum) is his partner, it makes so much sense it hurts.

I strongly doubt this little speech came from town.
You're super dumb and a liar

[Quilford]

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

[Quilford]

They're going to have that whether we lynch or not, and I'm pretty convinced we're heading for a mislynch here and of one of our PR claims at that.

PEDIT: Can you two read?

[Quilford]

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

EBWOP: Cut that last sentence. It was going to be addressed to another player, but I decided to remove it.

There you go. You might need to put your specs on.

[Quilford]

If you want to lynch someone because they're being a jerk, you shouldn't be playing mafia. It's part of the game.

Oversoul dear they get a free shot at our PRs REGARDLESS. WE'VE OUTED THEM.

NO MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR THE LYNCH POOL, PLEASE. YOU'RE NARROWING DOWN THE VIG POOL FOR SCUM. IF WE'RE LYNCHING TODAY, WE'RE LYNCHING ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAS VOLUNTEERED. OTHERWISE, WE NO LYNCH.

[Quilford]

Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?

I'm sorry, I don't remember hiring you as my therapist.

What's the town motivation for making that statement?

[Quilford]

I have never seen anyone get lynched for being a jerk.

[Quilford]

Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?

I'm sorry, I don't remember hiring you as my therapist.

What's the town motivation for making that statement?

What's the scum motivation for me asking you why you're over-aggressive?

What's the town motivation for blatantly lying, as that's not what you asked me at all?

To me it seemed very much like you were using my perceived insecurity that somehow I displayed by insulting you to imply that I was scum.

[Quilford]

Are you serious Muffin? Glow? Quil? Is my mislynch really more important then the fact that I'm

NOT SCUM

?

Okay, we'll play by your game. Let's do this. I'm tired of this game anyways, and it'd probably help from me possibly having to be replaced from the missions trip I'm going on Sat. If this is what it'll take to show you all how wrong you are, so be it. I'm the vig.

UNVOTE: Muffin

VOTE: Neil_1113

Good game.

Did I EVER, EVER ask for your mislynch?

[Quilford]

If there are counterclaims I want them.

[Quilford]

...

He would most certainly NOT kill Muffin during the night.

[Quilford]

(which, you twisted my words to do by the way)

I did not, speak for yourself you terrible hypocrite.

You somehow translated
"Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?"
into you asking about why I'm overaggressive.

Yeah, no. You should probably remove those quotes from your signature. If you truly are town, claiming out of anger when you're not being lynched is unforgivable and terrible, terrible play. You shouldn't be playing if you can let people get to you like that.

PEDIT: Glowball, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Quilford]

I don't even know what to say apart from, "Why?"

That's just beyond dumb.

If you're actually the vig, why not just replace out if you don't want to play?

And no, no one is going to counter-claim this.

The correct thing to do today is to lynch someone else with no counter-claim.

see what you've done MUFFIN?!?!?! Shall we out more PRs??? I mean bravo if you are scum-

If there are counterclaims I want them.

Slow your role....let's talk about this. If Neil is telling the truth we lose him tonight anyway- we have no protections.

What are you

on

?

[Quilford]

Glowball, you somehow imply that zMuffin is responsible for neil outing himself.

I realise my folly in asking for counterclaims though.

--

chkflip, ...

... yeah.

--

neil, surely you realise how much you're bullshitting right now? You go from 'insecurity' to 'anger' to 'aggression'. How the fuck did I twist your words and twist everything back onto you?

[Quilford]

zMuffin you're playing up the 'oh it's all okay we can clean up your mess' act pretty hard here and I don't like it at all.

[Quilford]

If there are counterclaims I want them.

I know

someone

else HAS to be reading Quilscum here. Check the ISO. This is getting ridiculous.

Better yet was how it was disregarded instantly. Quilford didn't fight for it for any reason, he just wanted it to happen before anyone caught it.

Haha, actually, I make claiming-related mistakes

all the time

when I'm town.

[Quilford]

VOTE: andrew94

[Quilford]

Who did Coventry replace?

[Quilford]

jakesh and evilpacman. humm

I can't really see them as scum tbqh

[Quilford]

1 between DarkFlashlight and chkflip

[Quilford]

i volunteer.
i guess hoopla looks pro town

unvote vote andrew

This feels insincere; his ISO is terrible, etc.

[Quilford]

FUCK YES AUTOWIN

Out of interest, what happened to the scum's kill? Did they aim at the hider?

[Quilford]

I'm going to laugh if zMuffinMan is the fake PR and thought it would be a good idea to

bus

his partner on the first day after his other partner fake-claimed vig.

[Quilford]

Which reminds me.

YoYoGuy (silverbullet999) --> Detective
zMuffinMan --> ???
Oversoul --> ???
glowball --> ???

[Quilford]

My guess is that it's glowball.

I was actually thinking that too, that maybe glowball's PR claiming facade came from paranoid Mafia.

[Quilford]

Conclusions

• LittleGrey
  is most scummy.
• Neil
  is very scummy.
• Amrun and Swankidelic are scummy.
• Hoopla, DarkFlashlight and andrew are all null.
• jakesh
  and glowball could swing either nullscum or nulltown. I can't decide which.
• Oversoul and zMuffin are townie.

VOTE: LittleGrey

woooooooooooo

not the vig btw >_>