Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[LordChronos]

mike, why no vote?

a2rudeboy, why does being lynched alot make you want to be a mason?

[Kitoari]

Votecount 1 - The "Throw random votes and see what happens!" votecount.

Equinox (LordChronos,Silverbullet999)
Silverbullet999 (Equinox, a2rudeboy)
Grump (MrDNA32)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is 29th of December, 8:35 PM (Central TIme).

@mod: There are 10 players on the player list, is this intended?

Nailed to the Perch:
1) mikemike778
2) soothingvapors
3) Grump
4) MrDNA32
5) Lindisfarne (SE)^
6) a2rudeboy (SE)^
7) silverbullet999 (SE)^
8) LordChronos (SE)^
9) Equinox (IC)*

???
[/color]

[silverbullet999]

VOTE: silver for that damned posting style in Hotel Death.

*smirks*

[LordChronos]

Kitoari, I misread Nailed to the Perch as a player name cause I was tired. And there weren't numbers.

[mikemike778]

mike, why no vote?

No one strikes me as possible scum yet ... and we are playing RQS instead of RVS it seems ...

[LordChronos]

Do you believe a vote is only to lynch someone? Why does the fact that questions were asked make it so you can't make an early vote?

[Equinox]

@Equi- Hello, again. Hopefully we'll be seeing more of you than in Sea Container.

I didn't play in sirdanilot's game. Did you mean CSL's?

Equi- I miss your chaos/order question.

Yeah. That experiment failed pretty badly.

I have never been a large fan of meta. It's too easy to throw it around as an excuse for actions. Creates way too much wifom.

Who do you think would be more likely to use meta in self-defense, town or scum? Or do you consider it to be a null tell? Why?

Wiithout wanting to de-content-ify the thread, I think we should all take a moment however the pay our respects to Vel-Rahn Koon

May I ask what you mean by this?

No one strikes me as possible scum yet ... and we are playing RQS instead of RVS it seems ...

To add to LordChronos's question, which do you think is more beneficial in terms of catching scum: RVS or RQS? Why?

---

I see that everyone except Grump and soothingvapors has answered, and we're missing confirmations from those two. Therefore, I'll go ahead and answer my own questions and talk about why I asked them. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look at your responses in detail, so that may have to wait until morning.

1. What is your time zone? How often do you expect to post?
2. Have you played Mafia before? If yes, how much and what kind of experience do you have?
3. In a hypothetical situation, you get to pick who dies from two candidates. Candidate A hasn't contributed much all day and has been rather quiet. Candidate B was caught in a lie. Who do you lynch: the lurker or the liar? Why?
4. In a hypothetical situation, you have determined through all sorts of analyses that a player is town. However, your gut tells you this player is scum. (Feel free to consider the reverse situation as well.) What do you conclude? Why?

1. UTC-8. I'm here at least twice a day.
2. Yes. I used to play real-time Mafia for a few years before coming here, and since then, I've completed 26 games. (That number doesn't mean as much as it looks.)
3. About 80% of the time, I'd be more inclined to lynch the liar. The other 19% depends on meta tells, and the 1% is the "It depends" clause. Scum have all the reason in the world to lie; the entirety of their play depends on deception, and so there is excellent pro-scum motivation to lie. Town rarely need to go that far; however, there are certain players who are well-known for pulling off gambits that involve a bit of dishonesty, and that's what my 20% reservation is for.
4. I try to figure out from where the hunch comes and then determine which is the "heavier" read. In LyLo*, though, I'll probably go with gut.

I had two goals behind starting RQS. First, the questions were to help me learn about you and how you scum hunt, which may help me later in the game once we've gotten the ball rolling. Second, the theory questions were aimed at letting you think about possible scenarios in the game that you may come across in this or another game. I admit that the second goal didn't work so well, since all 4 SEs responded but only 2 of the newbies got to do it, but I hope it has helped you in some way.

* = LyLo refers to what we call the "lynch-or-lose" situation, where town needs to lynch, and lynch the correct player, or it's game over. Since mafia win when they comprise 50% of the town, in a game like this, the earliest we'll see LyLo is Day 3 if we don't lynch scum on either of the first two days. Usually, LyLo is the time when everybody starts re-reading the thread -- ideally in its entirety -- because the stakes are so high. The reason I put the asterisk there is my response is based on theory rather than actual practice; I've heard more experienced players say that it's better to use one's gut in LyLo, but I have never had the chance to try that thought in a real game. There is my disclaimer.

[Kitoari]

Grump has confirmed, but hasn't posted yet. I'll prod him with a thread link.

I'll start hunting down a replacement for soothingvapors.

[Lindisfarne]

I had two goals behind starting RQS

Actually, I started it.

thinking townies analyze your play with the claim in effect and decides you aren't the cop and lynches you anyway

Lets solve this one. @everyone: would you lynch a guy who was at L-1, claimed cop and had no counterclaim?
...................
I'll go ahead and answer what most people would say: They would back off some, and ask more questions, but it depends on the situation. Most EVERYTHING in the game depends on the situation. hmm let's see:

It's situational, yes.

As I said, it's situational. I do agree with some of your points chronos, but what my driving point is that it should not be a RULE.

@Mod:

I notice you do things a bit...differently from how I've played other games. When you do a vote count, could you put the number of votes by the name as well, please? We're only on page two, but it's a bit unnerving there's so many votes flying around already. Call me paranoid, but I prefer slow games.

[Kitoari]

Votecount 2 - The "Why do I always forget to do this even though my players ask every time?" votecount.
Equinox (LordChronos,Silverbullet999) (2)
Silverbullet999 (Equinox, a2rudeboy) (2)
Grump (MrDNA32) (1)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is 29th of December, 8:35 PM (Central Time).

[Lindisfarne]

Thank you Kitoari, I know I'm a pain :p

[Equinox]

Actually, I started it.

Gah. My apologies! I forgot that you posted questions before I did. I didn't mean to take any credit.

@everyone: would you lynch a guy who was at L-1, claimed cop and had no counterclaim?

It depends!

If that player's behavior can be reasonably attributed to his power role, then I would back off. Additionally, if it's Day 1, I unequivocally back off any PR claim.

If that player's behavior has clear pro-scum motivation even in light of the claim, s/he is scum and needs to die. As we are in a semi-open setup, we can't be sure if there is a cop or not, so lack of a counterclaim doesn't mean very much.

There are a number of other factors that play into lynching or not lynching a PR claim that I won't go into right now, but the above is pretty much the gist.

[silverbullet999]

@everyone: would you lynch a guy who was at L-1, claimed cop and had no counterclaim?

Depends on the circumstances completely.

[LordChronos]

@Lindis

Let's say it is 3p LyLo Newbie game with a goon flip and a dead doctor (meaning if last scum is goon, they know claiming cop is safe) and said player was linked to dead scum and has been suspicious. Would you lynch him then?
Also, you were talking worst case scenario. That is the worst case scenario for scum.

[Lindisfarne]

First thing I would do is ask who they investigated and WHY. Let's say a player is very weak; bad logic, OMGUS's etc. In a case like that, I would be more likely to believe some shoddy investigations.

What you are doing is crafting a situation where most people would be more hesitant to believe a cop claim. Notice, I said a situation. Contrariwise, I could just as easily pose a situation where most people would be more likely to believe it, even if it's a possible scum claim. Fact is, it's (As I've stressed several times already, and you are now proving) SITUATIONAL.

[LordChronos]

Getting back to the original point, what is the pro-town player's motivation for not claiming? If a scum wants to fakeclaim, he will, regardless of whether a townie would claim.

[Grump]

@Lindisfarne:
- What is your favorite role to play in mafia and why?
- Is meta-gaming based on a player's past actions a solid tactic to you? Why or why not?
- Which role would you prefer: SK or Mason; and why?

::: I prefer townie. It encourages me to play more actively and I generally seem to invoke more reactions (which gives me that warm fuzzy feeling of actually accomplishing something).

I find it goes against the theory of mafia. Besides that, it's so easy to just swap up your meta, or play the same sort of meta but make small nuances that would suit a different purpose, etc.

Mason. The added link to a single player is invaluable I think in being able to get some inside reads without really needing to worry about what other people will think. Takes some pressure off of townies.

@Equinox:
1. What is your time zone? How often do you expect to post?
2. Have you played Mafia before? If yes, how much and what kind of experience do you have?
3. In a hypothetical situation, you get to pick who dies from two candidates. Candidate A hasn't contributed much all day and has been rather quiet. Candidate B was caught in a lie. Who do you lynch: the lurker or the liar? Why?
4. In a hypothetical situation, you have determined through all sorts of analyses that a player is town. However, your gut tells you this player is scum. (Feel free to consider the reverse situation as well.) What do you conclude? Why?

:::: EST, and hopefully a lot.
A little. I'm dabbling in some games, but I'm not engaging in any more after this until one or two close. I don't want to spread myself out too thin and/or get games confused.
It depends on the lie, but in most cases... The liar. Lynch-all-liars
Analysis over gut. Every time.

@Lindi
@everyone: would you lynch a guy who was at L-1, claimed cop and had no counterclaim?

:::That's a really closeminded scenario right thar. It depends largely on if they actually revealed the results of their investigations and everything matched up with how they had been playing throughout the game.



RVS: Lordchronos.
Simply because I'm in another game with him

[Grump]

EBWOP

VOTE:Lordchronos

Newbie mistakes ftw.

[mikemike778]

Do you believe a vote is only to lynch someone? Why does the fact that questions were asked make it so you can't make an early vote?

I believe you vote for people for one of two reasons:

a) You think they are bad (scum)
b) To see how they react from it

At this point - there was no one I have my eye on as being bad and would be very surprised if anyone felt pressured enough from a random vote which everyone knows is irrelevent, to give something away.

Still if you want me to vote for the sake of it then fair enough, off to random.org we go

VOTE: Lindisfarne

[mikemike778]

mikemike778 wrote:Wiithout wanting to de-content-ify the thread, I think we should all take a moment however the pay our respects to Vel-Rahn Koon
May I ask what you mean by this?

He's been assasinated sadly ... unless Kitoari is having us on.

mikemike778 wrote:No one strikes me as possible scum yet ... and we are playing RQS instead of RVS it seems ...
To add to LordChronos's question, which do you think is more beneficial in terms of catching scum: RVS or RQS? Why?

This is the first game with RQS I've played here ... I'd say RQS but really neither seem that useful just a way of getting the game going.

[mikemike778]

First thing I would do is ask who they investigated and WHY. Let's say a player is very weak; bad logic, OMGUS's etc. In a case like that, I would be more likely to believe some shoddy investigations.

But on the other hand ... if the player is very strong and scum they may well have pre-planned for a possible cop claim and covered their tracks. The same would apply to a doc claim.

Day 1, I wouldn't lynch them after that it depends on circumstances.

If you were a Doc and Night 1 you save someone (assuming mafia don't no kill). Do you claim?

a) Day 2 (8 players)
b) Day 3 (6 players 2 bad, 4 good)
c) Not untl you need to

I ask because there was a situation like this in Newbie 1013 and a big debate as to what the doc should do. As the scum player, I (and probably my partner) had picked the Doc anyway but interesting to see what others would do.

[Kitoari]

Votecount 3 - The "3rd time's the charm" votecount.
Equinox (LordChronos,Silverbullet999) (2)
Silverbullet999 (Equinox, a2rudeboy) (2)
Grump (MrDNA32) (1)
LordChronos (Grump) (1)
Lindisfarne (mikemike778)

Seeking a replacement for soothingvapors...

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is 29th of December, 8:35 PM (Central Time).

[Lindisfarne]

If you were a Doc and Night 1 you save someone (assuming mafia don't no kill). Do you claim?

C. It's all situational. A Doc is kind of a funky role, personally I don't find it anywhere NEAR as useful as a cop. A Cop can claim when they have one Verdict on someone, or wait until it gets closer to the end: Either play is decent and will help town. A Doc claiming is another story.

[silverbullet999]

Doc claims are also situational

(if it's lylo and you protected someone who you know is town you damn well better claim)

[mikemike778]

Doc claims are also situational

(if it's lylo and you protected someone who you know is town you damn well better claim)

What about with 6 players.

A Doc claim effectively meant a mislynch was game over whereas a no-claim meant there was still hope the Mafia night kill may be blocked.