Newbie 74 - Game Over

[Myopia]

Missed jdtay's claim when i last posted.

Just lost my first reponse when I tried to post it but i agree with talitha - it is suss he was on 2 votes rather than in imminent danger of dying when he made the claim. He practically provoked locus' vote on him. Seems like strange play for a doctor (or indeed mafia - is he trying to take down the real doctor with him).

[Myopia]

The claim seems suss. You were in no imminent danger of dying, why the claim. You practically provoked locus's vote and then provoke the people voting for you again by calling them noobs. If your the doctor then your basically asking to be lynched. If your mafia then I can only infer you thought you were going down and are trying to take the real doctor with you.

Dont think I need to use an FOS at this point.

[Myopia]

uggh sorry thats ugly obviously thought i lost the second post, rebooted and tried again

[JDTAY]

Well you said you were going to vote for me if I didn't say something. Then the newbie mafia could jump right on before I claimed and later claim it was a newbie mistake. Anyway, I don't think my claim is in question. There is only one doctor.

[Myopia]

Thats a big overstatement.

I said that I was suspicous but wary of putting a third vote on you until I heard what you had to say. You probably could have mollified locus with a bit of effort (he still seems pretty suspicous about me). And at that point I was not keen to lynch you over forgetting a vote. You chose to claim instead.

You justify the early claim by saying there a "newb mafia". Why do you say that? To date you havent indicated that you are suspicous of anyone. You merely voted locus as a joke.

Of course theres only doctor but merely asserting it is you doesnt make it so. Calling everyone a newb isnt helping your case. Indeed its just making it more likely for us to lynch you.

Im struggling to establish the reasoning behind your claim. If you are the doctor as you claim then your dead tonight anyway and you dont see morning either way. If your a townie trying to keep yourself alive then your a liar and possible exposing the real doctor to danger.

Bottomline you seem like an intelligent player. Based on that assumption I cant see you playing the way you have if you were the real doctor.

Im 90% sure your scum at this point but as I really dont want to be partially responsible for lynching a doctor day 1 of my first game im going to wait to here what the others say first. Needless to say if there is a real doctor out there they should not reveal themselves.

[Locus Cosecant]

o.O That's... a damned strange claim, JDTAY, to say the least. You were not in immediate danger of a lynch; there were only 3 votes hanging over your head, and one of them hadn't even been placed yet. What's more, you played quite aggressively for a doctor player, practically demanding votes.

On the other hand, lynching a doctor would suck. A LOT.

unvote

for now, waiting for a possible counter-claim. Myopia and JDTAY are still my highest suspicions, but I'll wait for everyone else to post and confirm that they are not going to counter-claim.

I don't know; could someone with more experience tell me if Myopia's last sentence makes sense? Is it not worthwhile to trade a doc for a scum? Can we trust JDTAY if there's no counterclaim?

[Myopia]

I should have added an "at this point" at the end of the sentance in question. A more experienced player than me can say whether a doctor for a mafia is a fair trade but I dont think there is any need to risk the doctor until jdtay's claim has been examined thorougly. If hes mafia and he thought he was going down he might just be trying to take the doctor down with him.

I think in other circumstances I would find you taking it for granted that the doctor should come out when jdtay's claim is very suspicious, suspicous itself . However if jdtay is scum then it increases the chance of inhim and you being innocent (and me if you think about it) as he wouldnt have felt so forced to role claim to avoid a lynch if his partner was voting for him. Thus I think that the chance of jdtay and you or jdtay and inhim being scum together are low.

Youve indicated that I am as suspicious as someone who claimed doctor with 2 votes. At this point locus its obvious that the way ive chosen to play this game is suspicious to you. Fair enough. Id just ask that you have another read of my posts and ask yourself whether i am trying to confuse matters or promote discussion. If Im scum and jdtay is innocent wouldnt I have tried to push his lynching rather than not vote in an attempt to slow things down and try and hear from everyone?

[Talitha]

Real doc should definitely claim in this situation, IMO. But I have a feeling that JDTAY is it.

[kieron]

Real doc should definitely claim in this situation, IMO. But I have a feeling that JDTAY is it.

Why should the real doc claim? Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the real doc be killed by the mafia the night he makes his claim? If JDTAY is mafia, wouldn't this just be exactly what he wants (to flush out the real doc)?

And how will we know who is the real doc and who is mafia? Do we just kinda pick one to lynch and hope for the best? I guess at that point a 50/50 chance is better than what we have randomly.

As an aside, I do agree that JDTAY is acting maybe a little TOO desparate - with only two votes against him...kinda more newbie than his previous posts would have us believe he is... He's seems overly focused on staying in the game (as opposed to trying to get his team to win)...

[JDTAY]

Actually, my number one focus coming into the game was hosing you n00bs, but now it's helping my team win, I guess.

A big

FOS

to all who still find me suspicious; you cannot refute the uncountered doc claim.

[Locus Cosecant]

Actually, my number one focus coming into the game was hosing you n00bs, but now it's helping my team win, I guess.

I will post again when I am less nauseated with rage.

[Talitha]

If we have 2 people claim doc, we are

guaranteed

to lynch a scum either today or tomorrow. Using our smarts, I think we'd be quite likely to lynch them today. Yes the doc will die at night, but it's worth it to get rid of one scum.

And JD, you need to seriously think about your attitude young man. [/mom]

[inHimshallibe]

unvote

And I'm waiting for a post from jaggedcrags. Be back this time tomorrow.

[kieron]

So, if everyone agrees Talitha's logic is good (and it seems good to me), and no one else claims doc, we've got a confirmed townie.

Now, it seems like we just go through all the players one by one (almost lynching each time) until someone claims cop, and we have the same situation...

So, does that mean the cop should just come out now?? That can't be right. Or is it? I'm confused.

What now, Talitha? Help!

[kieron]

BTW - I've half-a-mind to suggest lynching JDTAY just for being mean. I guess I'll just have to settle for the fact that he'll be killed tonight.

HA!

[Locus Cosecant]

JDTAY, if you don't want to play mafia, why did you sign up for the game? Your attitude disgusts me.

kieron, AIUI, the whole point is that we try to find scum, and then lynch them. The reason for claims is so that we don't inadvertantly lynch a power role. Aside from that, your statement made very little sense. Please think about these things a little more before appealing to a player who, for all we know, could be scum.

My vote goes back to

vote: Myopia

; same reasons I had before, plus he continued to pursue a claimed doc and said the real doc shouldn't come out.

[Myopia]

I've stated my reasons why I think jdtray is suss (although his post about keeping your head down is a bit ironic if he is in fact innocent). As a doc he played very recklessly, practically inviting votes from at least locus. Then when he went too far he played conservatively claiming doc. I would have thought a doc would want to be the other way round ie practically be dragged to the scaffold before claiming. On the contrary its not a bad claim for mafia.

Yes jdtray 4 of us in this game are newbs or relatively newbs. I apologise... no wait i checked the title and guess what.... its a newb game!!!!!! If you are the doc then id be pissed off too that you feel you were forced to claim. However no disrespect but youve firmly planted yourself in this situation. The personal attacks arent helping the town.

I wanted to talk more about the claim before asking the doc to come out. In particular i wanted for jdtray to explain his newb mafia comment and indicated who he thought was suspicious.

However if the consensus is that the real doc should come out and after hearing from all players (including jagged who hasnt posted in a while) there is no counterclaim then that is sufficient for me.

Cant see any point to the cop coming out until they have done at least one investigation.

[JDTAY]

Hey man, noone said mafia would be easy. There really are some really crazy people out there that you will have to deal with. I'm just preparing you for real mafia situations, not the fake type set up by these newbie games. You can't blame me for trying to help, now can you?

[Myopia]

My vote goes back to

vote: Myopia

; same reasons I had before, plus he continued to pursue a claimed doc and said the real doc shouldn't come out.

If I was mafia (and jdtay innocent) I would have tried to get him lynched by voting for him not trying to illicit more information. You thought him suspicious enough to vote for so dont blame me for having the same suspicions.

If there is another real doc why should they come out until every other possibility is exhausted? I thought that if jdtay was mafia then that was exactly what he wanted.

Yeah I pursued jdtay for his claim. Given the inconsistencies in the claim can you blame me? As for continuing to pursue a claimed doc its yet to be determined whether there will be a counterclaim (and it was certainly unclear at the point where I stated my view that the doctor should stay quiet whether there would be). Everyone but jagged has now posted after talithas post that the doc should come out - if jagged doesnt claim then as I said thats reasonable for me.

[kieron]

[snip]
kieron, AIUI, the whole point is that we try to find scum, and then lynch them. The reason for claims is so that we don't inadvertantly lynch a power role. Aside from that, your statement made very little sense. Please think about these things a little more before appealing to a player who, for all we know, could be scum.[snip]

Which statement makes very little sense? I said I was confused. Isn't that clear enough? HAR!

Also, what did I say that appealed to the player who could be scum? And what player were you referring to? JDTAY?

Now I'm even more confused.

[JDTAY]

Well, anyway, Tally's been laying low the entire game, afraid to make a single attack. And she's a girl.

unvote: Locus
vote: Tally

[Myopia]

kieron, i think he was talking about your hail mary to talitha for assistance when she could be scum

i imagine that its fairly common for experienced players in newbie games who are scum to use the "teaching" part of the game to lead the town where they want it to go.

imo locus was just warning you of that possibility

[Talitha]

No cop should not claim. Especially with the doc apparently out in the open.

Doc shouldn't have claimed so early and JD should've known better. But seeing as he has, we'll work with it. The good news is that it brings our odds of lynching scum today up slightly.

[mathcam]

Official Vote Count

:

Tally (1, JD)
Kieron (1, JaggedCraggs)
inHim (1, Tally)
JaggedCraggs (1, Kieron)
Myopia (1, Locus)

Not Voting: Myopia, inHim

Cam

[Myopia]

Id like to hear from the players who havent posted much (in him and jagged).

I agree that talitha seems like she is lying low. Shes seems a bit more like an impartial observer who chimes in with basis strategy tips - helpful but frankly if she was mafia it would be very hard to tell as she keeps it very close to the chest. Im not trying to bandwagon her Id just like to hear what she thinks.