Open 215 - Gurgi EC8 - Game Show Mafia, Over

[Mr.Sandman]

Mr. Sandman why did you agree that the cops outting themselves was a good idea?

I felt that it was better to have concrete information on day 2, rather than have the ambiguity of reading into the hints that players had been leaving and the possibilities that these had changed throughout the day. I think VRK's suggestion is better though, as it means that the scum won't be able to kill in order to confuse things because they won't know who the cop's are

[farside22]

farside, can you better explain 70 please?

I'm still thinking things out and I have my brain in too many games at the same time so bare with me a sec.

So lets say we hypoclaim who we investigate. We decide the most town person to claim and so forth. However there is one person who will who will be forced into hypoclaiming that they are going to investigate the player that is lynched today. If that last person is the actual cop then that hypoclaim does no good. Or even if that player is town that hypoclaim does not good to confuse the mafia. So my proposal is the last person to hypoclaim should be alloud to pick anyone they want.

[Mr.Sandman]

Reading back i probably gut my feeling from farside's vote on wolf in 48.

I'll leave the strategy discussion to you all.

If you're town, you're essentially leaving strategy to be influenced by 5 people, 2 of which have different motives to the town

[Cirno]

@VRK: Because I don't. Your strategy seems to make sense. There is nothing more for me to add. I'm not going to ignore the discussion. If I see something I don't like I'll question it or comment on it.

@Wolf: As opposed to my random vote? Yes. Farside has already explained her vote.

@Mr.Sandman: Those people will influence the strategy either way.

[Mr.Sandman]

@Mr.Sandman: Those people will influence the strategy either way.

Their influence will be less if more players are providing input

So lets say we hypoclaim who we investigate. We decide the most town person to claim and so forth. However there is one person who will who will be forced into hypoclaiming that they are going to investigate the player that is lynched today. If that last person is the actual cop then that hypoclaim does no good. Or even if that player is town that hypoclaim does not good to confuse the mafia. So my proposal is the last person to hypoclaim should be alloud to pick anyone they want.

While I agree with this idea in principle, the more I think about it the more I'm wondering about its practicality. How exactly is it proposed that we come to the conclusion over who to lynch and then determine a 'most townie' player before a lynch occurs in just over a week? Either on its own could potentially generate pages of discussion

[chnorek]

i think its almost impossible to make everyone vote 'most town' or we would end up with 2-3 investigated people.
We will need to decide on some order of hypoclaiming.

[farside22]

Some people I notice are talking about lylo tomorrow possiblity. If we have a weak cop and they lived and checked someone town that increases the chances in town's favor.

Start with 6 town 2 scum
Say we mislynch today
5 town, 2 scum.
Scum kills a VT
4 town, 2 scum
cop claims who he checked.
The mafia can of course try to counter claim at this point but again for me it will depend on the player, what they said, how they acted and answers to questions. hypoclaim also forces players we find scummy to not get a first pick. We have to watch out for those who could be killed by the scum team. Scum will know for instance that if someone hypoclaiming says they will check them and lives the next day that the player is not a cop.

Ugh my head it's not liking the odds on this now.

[mavsfan41]

Unvote

wanted to remove a random vote I placed on someone.

[wolframnhart]

Ok this is probably gonna sound bad but i'm gonna say it anyways, what about no lynching today?

6 town two scum
no lynch tonight, hypo claim
either 1 person dies to mafia kill and we get 0-3claims next day leaving us with
5 town two scum and either claims to help narrow down field, or no claims and we are back to square one.

Of course there is always the possibility that there is an extra 1-2 kills at night depending on how many, if any, cops we have and who they investigate, they could unfortunately depending on how many cops we have (lets say three) chances are slim but they might accidently target a mafia each, leaving us with three deaths at night, waking up to a 3 town two scum next morning, but if that happened i think that would wrap the game up from there. I dunno if I am thinking this out correctly though. Any thoughts?

[farside22]

Ok this is probably gonna sound bad but i'm gonna say it anyways, what about no lynching today?

6 town two scum
no lynch tonight, hypo claim
either 1 person dies to mafia kill and we get 0-3claims next day leaving us with
5 town two scum and either claims to help narrow down field, or no claims and we are back to square one.

Of course there is always the possibility that there is an extra 1-2 kills at night depending on how many, if any, cops we have and who they investigate, they could unfortunately depending on how many cops we have (lets say three) chances are slim but they might accidently target a mafia each, leaving us with three deaths at night, waking up to a 3 town two scum next morning, but if that happened i think that would wrap the game up from there. I dunno if I am thinking this out correctly though. Any thoughts?

I was thinking about this to honestly. I know people hate the idea of no lynch. There is 2 problems with this. Lying scum and if the scum kill a weak cop (if one exist). Remember 1 death is WIFOM, 2 deaths means weak cop found scum.

[wolframnhart]

Right, lying scum will always be a problem, and the biggest part of the problem is we don't know how many, if any, cops we even have.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Farside, post 76: We probably should do two rounds of "investigation claims" then. For instance, "I will investigate wolf tonight, but if he gets lynched then I'll investigate sensfan".

Theoretically, this shouldn't be an issue because we won't set up hypocop investigations until the last day or two, and if we're still fighting over who we're going to lynch at that point we're in trouble.

The person who would investigate the person most likely to be lynched may be better off doubling up on the first person, who is going to be our most Townie person.

Ok reading on further:

I actually like the idea of No Lynching today. If we have 3 cops, No Lynch today prevents the case where we auto-lose if two of the 3 cops hit Mafia.

The way the game is set up is that we have an 87.5% chance of having at least one cop. We have a 50% chance of having 2 or 3 cops. And the only way one death is WIFOM is if the death is a cop death. A Townie death is automatically attributable to Mafia.

I'm all for a No Lynch with hypoclaims at the end of the day, scummiest players (bottom 3) go last. Towniest player picks first and chooses next player of the remaining 4.

But first, we need to decide who is scummiest.

mavsfan, do you plan on actually playing the game, or sitting around lurking your way through?

unvote; FoS: mavsfan

Assume the FoS here is equivalent to a vote, since we're No Lynching today.

[SensFan]

If we're going to hypocop, I'd prefer it be done popcorn. Is that acceptable?

[wolframnhart]

I'm fine if we popcorn.

[chnorek]

sory but what means popcorn?

[wolframnhart]

one person starts with the hypo claim, then picks teh next person to go, then that person picks teh next, etc etc till everyone claims.

[farside22]

popcorn is fine, but we still need to think who should go first.
my thought would be wolf.

People I would like to hear more from Sens, Cirno and mavsfan. I feel these three have been the quietist this game.

unvote:

[Cirno]

@farside: What exactly do you want to hear about?

Also, no way I'm going for a no lynch.

[wolframnhart]

Why not cirno?

[farside22]

@farside: What exactly do you want to hear about?

Also, no way I'm going for a no lynch.

What is with the gut reads? Where is the post that is supposed to give more info? What plan to you like best if there is a weak cop in the set up?

[SensFan]

Can someone explain the No Lynch to me a bit more? I realize it's a huge long shot, but after the kill, if 3 Cops hit Scum, that's it. Game over before we get a lynch off. I'm not sure why we're taking that risk.

[Cirno]

The gut read came from your vote on wolf for attempting to "smear the weak cop information with WIFOM. ".

I like the idea of everyone stating who they will investigate before the day ends.

[chnorek]

ok i got it, thanks. sounds fine for me.

@Sens
everyone will investigate different person, that makes 3 cops hitting scum impossible.

[SensFan]

Oh, right. Knew I was missing something. Thanks.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Can someone explain the No Lynch to me a bit more? I realize it's a huge long shot, but after the kill, if 3 Cops hit Scum, that's it. Game over before we get a lynch off. I'm not sure why we're taking that risk.

No lynch today with 3 cops, Night 1 looks like this:

T T T C C C M M

Worst case scenario, 2 of the 3 cops investigate Mafia and die, and the Mafia hit either a Townie or the other cop gives us the following for Day 2:

T T T M M

or

T T C M M

which is not an auto-lose. We won't have 3 cops all investigating Mafia because everyone will have one person to investigate. We're not doubling up.

Cirno, why would you not be OK with a strategy that gives Town a large chance for information while completely eliminating the possibility for losing the game on Night 1?

FoS: Cirno

Isn't this popcorn:

Towniest player picks first and chooses next player of the remaining 4.

?

I was saying that we figure out who is the Towniest player, and also figure out who are the 3 scummiest. The Towniest hypoclaims first, and then picks person number 2, with the stipulation that he can't pick from the bottom 3. Keep going like this until only the bottom 3 are left, then they get to pick. Sorry if that didn't come across clearly.