Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[Sotty7]

2nd Vote count of day one

The1fifi 2: (McZombie, Wacky)

inverno 2: (Jee, DTMaster)
Seven 1: (jbernier93)
McZombie 1: (Nikanor)

Not Voting 6:

Echo, Seven, Neon_Appliances, Jasper, inverno, The1fifi

-With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
-Deadline is 2/22/10 @ 10am CTS
-Due to real life issues inverno has asked to be replaced. I have a replacement in the works and will confirm once he picks up the PM.
- Seven and Neon_Appliances have until this time tomorrow to post before I start looking for replacements.

[Sotty7]

jasonT1981 replaces inverno as of this post. Thanks Talbot

[jasonT1981]

Hey everyone, some of you I know and have played with before, others I don't. This is my first mafia game on MS in over two months so am looking forward to getting into the swing of things.

Only onto the third page so far so not a monster of a catch up read involved thank goodness, but it is after midnight here now, so I will be fresher in the morning and will post my thoughts as soon as I get back online..

Activity wise, you should not have to worry about me, as those who have played with me before can testify I am always quite active in games. I will be able to post for the most part every day on multiple occasions with exceptions of weekends where I have limited access but will still be able to check in during the daytime (UK Time Zone.. +5 hours for east coast America)

So with all that said, I will have my catch up tomorrow for you all. Thanks to Sotty for having me in her game.

[The1fifi]

@Mod - You didn't include me in the non voting list

Fixed, thanks.

Anyway, vote Seven for being too quiet

[jee]

Got to bold your vote for it to count.

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen.

Unvote

.

[DTMaster]

Hiya Jason. "waves"

Bomb: JasonT1981

@Theififi
Huh? How am I correct but your argument is valid? You are pretty much saying that discussion starting is scummy because I address to a broad range of people.

You need to see how each person reacts to other people. If someone is pushing the focus away from another person, they are trying to bread crumb an innocent or are scum deflecting attention away from their partner.

If you go and tunnel vision on someone without addressing/noting the existence of the other players, you will run into a big dead end in scum hunting if that person isn't scum.

I find your logic to be quite flawed in this scenario because it stifles discussion, rather then encourage it.

@Nikanor
1. You are Grammer Nazi!

Denazify: Nikanor

2. I too has seen scum do that, but I also seen cops do that too. If this guy is willing to run another person up to L-1, then I would like to see his reaction on it. Will you assist me on this?

EDIT: Jee responded. Failness. The above is moot now, and I dislike this argument he did, especially since there was no follow up. Jee's post is very pointless.

3. Because I want to fire off my gun, but my gun seems to be jammed. You're voting McZ, you should be rejoicing that I'm trying to kill her since you are voting her.

EDIT: Acutally her recent post is fishy. I'm recalling Battle Mage mafia where a cop did this.

4. I still like references. Why are you defending Jasper anyways before he can even answer anything about his scum references. This is odd for you even. Especially when it looks like Jasper is coasting away from answering my question and you are doing all the talking.

@Jasper
1. References.

[McZombie]

EDIT: Acutally her recent post is fishy. I'm recalling Battle Mage mafia where a cop did this.

If you are referring to me, how exactly was it fishy? Explain. I was simply stating that i did not like the fact that jee voted without giving reasons and why he did so.

[Seven]

/confirm

Sorry, haven't gotten the chance to get online for a bit. Will read up and post ASAP.

FoS: whoever confirmed right before I did.

[DTMaster]

Pre-Jee Explaination: it could have been role information, like a day cop. Hence why I referenced Battle Mage mafia where a player named Charter did the same thing. He was a day cop and nailed scum 2 days in a row.

Hence potential role fishing. It would have made more sense to L-1 the guy to gauge Jee's reaction to it. If he was complacent and let a hammer fall, it would look poorly upon his part.

Post-Jee Explanation: i'm quite dissapointed in his explaination. It actually makes Jee look a lot worse since in his post he just unvoted and didn't do something productive.

[DTMaster]

^^ Random "Fosing" Stage? RFS?!??!!??

[Wacky]

Anyway, vote Seven for being too quiet

@DTMaster

As far as the less townie.. umm..maybe you, for questioning everyone, thus trying to create the maximum havoc possible i believe.

You need to bold your vote. However, I'm inclined to agree with you on DTMaster being the "less townie":

@DTMaster

I appreciate your time in explaining how to play the game to newer players, and direct questioning to generate but I'm beginning to take issue with how you seem to be trying to throw suspicion on anyone and everyone, and I don't think it's beneficial for the town for you to be maintaining many conversation threads. It's distracting and takes away the focus from the discussion.

Are you, perhaps, scum, hoping something will stick, or at least distract everyone for a couple of Days by focusing all their attention on responding to you?

You are, aren't you? If not, would you mind then if I tried to start a bandwagon directing all the attention to you?

Secondary Kill: McZombie

Also, can you stop daykilling people please? It's not making you look any less suspicious, and on the slight, slight chance that you are town it makes you vulnerable to a mafia frame job should anyone on your kill list happen to die (which is bound to happen now that you've "killed" everyone already).

P.S. I asked about alts because a newbie mistake can also be suspicious if it was done by more experienced players. And because alts weren't around back when I played my last game, I have no clue how they'd influence game mechanics.

tl;dr:

Unvote:The1fifi

(Reason: Attempt to bait for scummy reaction failed)

Vote: DTMaster

(Scumtell: Trying Too Hard)

[jbernier93]

/confirm

Sorry, haven't gotten the chance to get online for a bit. Will read up and post ASAP.

FoS: whoever confirmed right before I did.

Yeah, I'm still happy with my vote. :/

Got to bold your vote for it to count.

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen.

Unvote

.

Jee, you've had a grand total of four posts. One of which was a random vote, one that discussed the RVS, a vote on inverno, and this post quoted above.

You've contributed zero to this game, and voted inverno just to see his reaction? I don't understand how that's helpful, when you aren't even attempting to discuss things.

[The1fifi]

Damn, i forgot to bold

Vote Seven

Wait, he already posted

Unvote

Ermm.. still don't know where to put my vote.

@DT : Thanks for the explanation, but each one has its view and method of operating =P. I just believe that quality is better than quantity, in terms of questions and questioned.

[Wacky]

....what did I say about wishy-washy voting.....

And isn't it a little early to be lurker hunting? Watch out for jbernier, he suspects you even before you've even read the thread. Is it that games have increased in pace since I last played? It used to be that we'd get worried when someone doesn't post in a week.

[jasonT1981]

Just gotten up, so starting my read through after breakfast/lunch I have managed to finish page 1 though quickly.

Feelings on Page one...

Jasper got a little defensive on what was probably a joke by DTM.. nothing much but still slightly defensive. that is the very first thing I noticed.

Vote: Jasper

for not RVSing in his first post. He is obviously planning his NKs right now.

So because I don't RVS, I am scum? Interesting theory... a wrong one, but an interesting theory.

jbernier93, could you please get an avatar? it helps people relate and identify to you easier.

Nik puts some more pressure on Jasper once again about not voting in RVS, Now I personally don't mind if he does or doesn't its a RVS however Jasper should know the RVS can be a key part of the game, no matter how random as it gives us all something to go on.

We go onto talk about scum methods and I agree with Jaspers assessment of how scum can play. but this picked up my nose slightly.

Vote Jasper for being so well informed on scum methodology ^^

this vote actually strikes me as caculated and nothing random at all, knowing scum methodolgy can be a good thing, it can help identify scum.

Kill: jbnernier

Given your avatar I want to say... Bizinga!!!!! hehe

You seriously expect Jasper to provide examples? That's insane.
DTM, why did you decide to vote jbn after giving Jasper the red flag?

Actually, its not that insane, I have played in many games that people have linked to, to provide answers... Sure reading a full and complete game can be tiresome while involved in an on going game, but I actually see nothing wrong with this question... Heck, it could even show him (Jasper) as scum playing to this style. Or give us a good Meta read on Jasper saying this is his first game.

I didn't vote, I wrote Kill. There is a diffrence between voting and killing mister Nikanor.

I am still assuming this is a joke lol

Oh, I saw bold and assumed vote. Fine then, have it your way.

Airlock: jbnernier93.

Interesting... any reasons so far as to why? maybe I will get my answer on the next page...

vote: jbernier93

cuz I can and it's free.

The archetypical scum? That is something that is hard for me to answer. Because I have, on other forums, seen different tactics from people as scum.

The loudmouth
The lurker
The pusher
The follower

What do you mean by pusher? It's kind of ambiguous.

I'm not sure if the rest are scummy. Bad for the town, sure, but not scummy.

Hmmm though posted by the replacement I slightly disagree with his assessment...

The Lurker can be scummy, Sit back and watch the action unfold all while avoiding suspicion, ocasionally coming in and placing your vote stratigically upon the wagon and attempting to blend in before going back into hiding.

The Loudmouth - Can be quite scummy shouting at people etc who refuse to see his way in a fake attempt to scum hunt.

The follower - Slightly like the lurker, can attatch themselves to someone else so if they get lynched and flips scum it can dirty a town alligned player. Can also sit back and follow with the flow.

Anyway, page one complete. More coming soon after breakfast and lost!

[jbernier93]

jbernier93, could you please get an avatar? it helps people relate and identify to you easier.

Unfortunately I have no pictures that would make appropriate avatars for my current username. I'll see what I can do but I'm not making any promises.

[Jasper]

@Jasper
1. References.

I am speaking from over 2 years experience on another site. I am sorry, but I do not have the time to sift through them all and remember which games had which kinds of scum.

So sorry to disappoint.

Jasper got a little defensive on what was probably a joke by DTM.. nothing much but still slightly defensive. that is the very first thing I noticed.

You should know me by now Jas, that I wasn't being defensive... in fact, I posted the next post that I saw his sarcasm and matched it.

[jasonT1981]

Got a bit caught up as a friend decided to call down to the house, gonna get food and will continue my read after food

My goodness, Jasper... I have just realized who you are LOL

[The1fifi]

@Jason : My vote wasn't random. i said it some posts after.

[jasonT1981]

And yes, since Jasper has encountered all 4 scum, I would expect him to be able to provide examples from his past games to show so. He could even mention player styles to support his acusation. What is the issue with that Nikanor? You maintain a Wiki, thus are able to use it as a refrence to prove a case.

Actually, now I know who Jasper is... I can vouch for his comments... Jasper and I have been playing mafia together for over two years, while I do not fancy looking through litterly nearly 60 games we would have played together barring those either of us have modded.

Yes, I maintain a wiki. However, I doubt Jasper maintains a wiki for the account on whatever other site he may come from.

http://mwa-online.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=42 links to games that he would have played in....as well as myself.. you can read for yourselves the games and I am sure you will find examples of the 4 types mentioned.

Now, this is the first red flag for me on page 2...

unvote
vote inverno

reasons will come later.

Why later? why not now? Lazy I feel..... and possibly scummy.

Drawing to much atention, and for that i unvote hi

By unvoting aren't you drawing even more attention?

Interesting point.however

I am not unvoting to "undraw" attention from him. I just say i witnessed something pretty similar happen before. That doesn't make him townie or scum to my eyes, but gives me no reason to keep my vote on him, since his attitude tends more to the townie side.

I can actually see his point though to his unvote, he did after all give a explination with his unvote that he had seen something similar happen recenly.

About what i think about Jasper acting. Well, if he is townie, he is just acting like a townie acted in my other game, (which is pretty bad btw..) and who got himself lynched pretty soon. Drawing to much atention, and for that i unvote him

unvote

@fifi
It just seems a bit suspicious to unvote after you were promted about it.

I voted jasper for one reason :

-The one i mentioned on my vote, so it was

not RVs

If it wasn't a RV so you had a reason to vote him, so why back down so easily? Trying to please the town a bit too much i think.

unvote
Vote: The1fifi

Eh, he gave reasons for his unvote though...

hmmm, this net post though does not sit right with me....

@Jasper
1. Does it even include people who accurately support their argument? If someone pushes for a lynch, even for a mislynch, if the arguments leading to the lynch are valid that isn't scummy.

You pretty much justified that all persons who lead the town are scum if they don't always catch scum. I want to bring out Battle Mage and DGB as players who effectively lead the town like that. Even through mislynch or not, they catch scum with that attitude.

I have plenty of links to their games if you want to read them.

2. Links to your scum type refrences. I'm requesting them, offically, since I wasn't blatent enough.

@The1fifi
1. Link please to this game. If you are metaing, you should be able to link upon request.

2. Alternatives to scum-Jasper? If you think Jasper is town, then you must have some idea on who is scum. Or even who is less townie then the others if you have troubles.

@Wacky
How does alt's come into play here? Shouldn't we be more focused on scum hunting players and not worried about alts? Meta's are useful tools, but they aren't the only tools.

I smell derailment from scumhunting coming from that post.

@Nikanor
If you refrence something, and someone requests it, I expect that you are able to support this.

@jbernier93
Lol.

@Jee
Lets do this. I expect that this early in the game these are going to be good reasons.

Unvote

Vote: inverno

Secondary Kill: McZombie

You spend an entire post enquiring towards others only to go and vote someone you have made no mention off whatso-ever? You even go as far as asking for scum alternatives to Jasper which means, at least to me you suspect him. Only to vote my predecessor. Weird, why?

Page 3 now...

Got to bold your vote for it to count.

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen.

Unvote

.

Ah, your reasons... not sure I am buying this... I think you may have been trying to be opertunistic. I really did not like your vote and I do not like your explinations. I feel 'trying to get a response' is a cop out now that he replaced out.

DTM, I have a question for you.... what is with all the kills, bombs, etc you are placing on people? seems a bit weird...I don't remember you doing this in any other game before.

Pre-Jee Explaination: it could have been role information, like a day cop. Hence why I referenced Battle Mage mafia where a player named Charter did the same thing. He was a day cop and nailed scum 2 days in a row.

Hence potential role fishing. It would have made more sense to L-1 the guy to gauge Jee's reaction to it. If he was complacent and let a hammer fall, it would look poorly upon his part.

Post-Jee Explanation: i'm quite dissapointed in his explaination. It actually makes Jee look a lot worse since in his post he just unvoted and didn't do something productive.

very well put... I feel his explination was a cop out. I have already stated that. He did come across as he was going to add something productive only to go out with a wimper...

/confirm

Sorry, haven't gotten the chance to get online for a bit. Will read up and post ASAP.

FoS: whoever confirmed right before I did.

you do know we are in actual conversation now...

Secondary Kill: McZombie

Also, can you stop daykilling people please? It's not making you look any less suspicious, and on the slight, slight chance that you are town it makes you vulnerable to a mafia frame job should anyone on your kill list happen to die (which is bound to happen now that you've "killed" everyone already).

P.S. I asked about alts because a newbie mistake can also be suspicious if it was done by more experienced players. And because alts weren't around back when I played my last game, I have no clue how they'd influence game mechanics.

tl;dr:

Unvote:The1fifi

(Reason: Attempt to bait for scummy reaction failed)

Vote: DTMaster

(Scumtell: Trying Too Hard)

Interesting point... do you feel DTM could be making daykill etc jokes as a way of using humor into making us think scum would not be doing this sort of thing... kinda like a bit of WIFOM?

Damn, i forgot to bold

Vote Seven

Wait, he already posted

Unvote

Ermm.. still don't know where to put my vote.

@DT : Thanks for the explanation, but each one has its view and method of operating =P. I just believe that quality is better than quantity, in terms of questions and questioned.

How about putting it on the person you think is the most likely to be scum? wishy washy voting here, almost like you just wanted to vote for the pure hell of it and then unvote. Doing a vote and unvote in the same post makes no sense... I could buy you didnt see his post when you voted and made another post unvoting but to vote and unvote in the same small post seems weird.

....what did I say about wishy-washy voting.....

And isn't it a little early to be lurker hunting? Watch out for jbernier, he suspects you even before you've even read the thread. Is it that games have increased in pace since I last played? It used to be that we'd get worried when someone doesn't post in a week.

LOL... I often find people get accused of lurking when they are not even near the thread to lurk.

Lurking = Reading the thread, keeping an eye on things but not commenting
Not Lurking = Not actually being about to read the thread.

@Jason : My vote wasn't random. i said it some posts after.

Yea dude, I got that now.. I had only read page 1.

OK in summing up, I have mixed feelings on everyone... However Jee is the one who has most stuck out to me right now after everything, his vote with explination later was scummy I feel as it gives him leeway on not having to justify his vote there and then (I personally find it scummy voting without reasons) and then the unvote reaked of crap... jee, would your vote still be on if inverno had not replaced out? I really don't think it would be.

vote: jee

[jasonT1981]

I also find DTM scummy right now, his post where he voted after spending the entire post talking about others and not mentioning the person he votes once is quite off with me. Sure, he goes along with Jee but again no reasons whatso ever... saying he expects Jee must have good reasons

[Nikanor]

I know i said a similar thing to what jbernier said but I was just stating my opinion on what I thought of it. And I wasn't trying to take credit for what he said, if that's what it looked like, I was just putting what i thought about it out there and i, myself, thought it was suspisous so that's why i placed my vote on him.

Well, you can say that, but that doesn't mean I'll believe you. However, you do seem genuine. Not that it makes up for what you posted next:

Why will reasons come later? Why can't you just state them now? That is if you actaully have reasons right now. I would like to know why you placed this vote and why you decided not to give the reasons out.

I just said that. Please come up with your own material.

*Waves at jason.* Hi!

2. I too has seen scum do that, but I also seen cops do that too. If this guy is willing to run another person up to L-1, then I would like to see his reaction on it. Will you assist me on this?

A cop on day one? Cops are overpowered enough; day cops don't belong in mini normals.

3. Because I want to fire off my gun, but my gun seems to be jammed. You're voting McZ, you should be rejoicing that I'm trying to kill her since you are voting her.

I was trying to discern whether you were joking or actually suspicious of her. Things like

Kill: person

are dangerous because if you're scum, you can go back and say either that you were suspicious of that person because you tried to kill them, or that you weren't suspicious of that person and were only joking with the kill thing, depending on the flip of that person. It would also be a good way for scum to distance without having to worry about accidentally building a wagon on their buddy.

EDIT: Acutally her recent post is fishy. I'm recalling Battle Mage mafia where a cop did this.

How was what she said any different from what I said?

Sorry, haven't gotten the chance to get online for a bit. Will read up and post ASAP. FoS: whoever confirmed right before I did.

Uhm. Please do something useful.

Pre-Jee Explaination: it could have been role information, like a day cop. Hence why I referenced Battle Mage mafia where a player named Charter did the same thing. He was a day cop and nailed scum 2 days in a row.

He was also paranoid and lucky that he targeted scum, but yeah. Although I still think that day cops shouldn't be in mini normals.

Hence potential role fishing. It would have made more sense to L-1 the guy to gauge Jee's reaction to it. If he was complacent and let a hammer fall, it would look poorly upon his part.

Again, why didn't you say this to me? What's different between what I said and what McZombie said?

....what did I say about wishy-washy voting.....

You sound like my mother. 'Don't forget to put the cap back on the paste when you're done eating so it doesn't dry out!'

And isn't it a little early to be lurker hunting? Watch out for jbernier, he suspects you even before you've even read the thread. Is it that games have increased in pace since I last played? It used to be that we'd get worried when someone doesn't post in a week.

No, it's still that way for most people. I don't know why jbernier is lurker hunting.

jbernier93, could you please get an avatar? it helps people relate and identify to you easier.

Agreed. It doesn't have to fit your username, just something that describes your personality maybe?

Interesting... any reasons so far as to why? maybe I will get my answer on the next page...

I was playing along with the joke. Aboard the Galactica, we shoot toasters out of our airlock.

My goodness, Jasper... I have just realized who you are LOL

Do you guys know each other from that other site you play on, jason?

[Nikanor]

Damn it jason,

I

wanted the biggest wall of text on this page!

[jasonT1981]

LOL sorry, Nik... I have been accused of Mastin posting before.. I will cut back

Yea, Jasper and I know each other from the other site

[jee]

Sorry, busy and getting a slow start to the game.

I originally voted for inverno because of post 30:

Jasper is being sketchy. He's separated himself from the crowd by not rvsing and now he's being kinda defensive. I don't think it's scummy though. It's like he's swaying back and forth, pretending to dance, and got called out. It's newbie behavior.

Just a 'gut' vote. It stuck out to me because he decided to specifically point out Jasper after accusations had already been raining down on Jasper. The vote was to get a reaction specifically out of inverno. I find that not posting any sign of a reason at all is a lot more scummy then saying the reason will be coming.

I felt like I was being lost in the posts, so I went back and reread. And the only thing I noticed that no one has mentioned is..

Why are the references to the archetypical scum so important? I don't see how lying about different scum types incriminates/defends a person. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.