Open 199 - Friends, Enemies, and Enemies - OVER

[yawetag]

Being annoying =/ being scummy.

You're right. However, when you fail to give any reason at all for your motivations, that is.

[mavsfan41]

So, cdubs, why did you wait forever to confirm, and then you vote for yourself. I don't understand it.

Yawetag, I like your quotes from Churchill and JFK. Well, it's too early to vote anyone yet. Some people look more suspicious than others, but it's quite dumb to vote anyone yet saying that you KNOW they're scum. With so many people in this game, we're going to need a lot more post and pages before we can be sure we are lynching scum or a werewolf.

[Fate]

@Fate, when the game's over, will you tell me whose alt you are?

If it is destined to happen, it will happen.

@mavsfannoonecanhearyouscreaminspaceMihjad:

You can never be sure of who you are lynching. You can not see behind the mask until it has fallen off...

[The Tracker]

Pretty sure already, hmm? I think this is Tracker's playstyle. He's always careful with his vote, sits back and tries to gather information first.

Always

? May I see which game

you've played with him?

Vote: Shrinehme

Who is pretty sure about anything D1? Oh yeah, that's right. Scum. They already know 2/12 roles...

I added that tidbit to ensure that it wouldn't be mistaken for a less serious vote... I think it's scummy and hasn't gained nearly as much attention as it should. Sigh.

How does the setup relate to my confidence of my vote? Why is mentioning my confidence in my vote more likely a Scum move than it is a Town move?

The confidence in your vote is from only a few pages and you're basing your vote on 1 post if I'm correct. That kind of "confidence" is scummy because there's only 1 party that can be confident, and that's scum.

@Shrine: Chastising and voting for me based on how I play? How is that a scumtell to you?

Because you were sticking nails into Dana's coffin [so to speak], by instilling possibilities and suspision into other player's heads [quote: "Maybe the one trying to confuse the town is you"], and then immediately backed away from the wagon. Looks like you want other people to push the wagon for you, so you don't get your hands dirty or attract attention.

Instilling possibilities and suspicions is what this game's all about, friendo. You didn't miss that memo, did you? And who said I backed away from the wagon? I just didn't vote on the dude, and I'm glad I didn't because you're starting to look like a perfectly reasonable vote to me as well.

My stuff in bold.

[RayFrost]

mod, please note my sig

[xRECKONERx]

Being annoying =/ being scummy.

FOS: yawetag

He's obviously voting you for fishing for info about Masons.

And WE HAVE A WINNER! Your prize: a yawetag lynch. Do you accept y/n

PS, the fact that yawetag claims he knew why I was voting him, but refused to admit it out loud, and attempted to get a counterwagon going on me in the process, is PRETTEH SCUMMEH!

[yawetag]

PS, the fact that yawetag claims he knew why I was voting him, but refused to admit it out loud, and attempted to get a counterwagon going on me in the process, is PRETTEH SCUMMEH!

I'd love for you to show me where I claimed I knew why you were voting for me.

[xRECKONERx]

Being annoying =/ being scummy.

You're right.

However, when you fail to give any reason at all for your motivations, that is.

I read this as "You're right, that's why he's voting for me". Though, now I could see it as "You're right, being annoying =/ being scummy". Still though, you had to have had some idea of why I just quoted that post and laid down a vote.

[xRECKONERx]

You also seemed unphased by why I was voting for you and have yet to deny you were fishing for masons.

[yawetag]

Being annoying =/ being scummy.

You're right.

However, when you fail to give any reason at all for your motivations, that is.

I read this as "You're right, that's why he's voting for me". Though, now I could see it as "You're right, being annoying =/ being scummy". Still though, you had to have had some idea of why I just quoted that post and laid down a vote.

Your second understanding is correct. I was agreeing with evils' statement. I had no idea why you voted for me; you simply quoted my only post at the time, then dodged the questions when I asked.

You also seemed unphased by why I was voting for you and have yet to deny you were fishing for masons.

Unphased? I kept asking you why, and you never answered. I think I showed some care in why you had placed the vote.

I wasn't fishing for masons -- I was simply stating the obvious. There are three factions of teams in this setup, and to immediately jump on the fact he was scum is a stretch, especially on page 1.

[xRECKONERx]

Hmm. You're right. This is a dead-end.

Unvote; Vote: Flareonage

Muuuuch better lynch.

[Flareonage]

I wasn't fishing for masons -- I was simply stating the obvious. There are three factions of teams in this setup, and to immediately jump on the fact he was scum is a stretch, especially on page 1.

Did you not read that?

[xRECKONERx]

wat

[Flareonage]

I might be wrong but I thought he was talking about the fact that you assumed I was scum right away when we have 3 groups that can communicate

[Fate]

I might be wrong but I thought he was talking about the fact that you assumed I was scum right away when we have 3 groups that can communicate

*Buzz* Wrong answer.

Unvote: Shrine

Vote: Flareonage

Demotion

Shrine->

FOS

[Flareonage]

im confused

[Fate]

Almost 24 hours and no posts, huh? Interesting... Scum want to idle their way to victory.

[xRECKONERx]

That's why we need to lynch Flare.

[cdubs]

An analysis of this set up.

The first thing I want to point something out about this set up. In normal c-9 or f-11 set ups, the scum has a substantial amount of information. You know who all of the townies are, and in f-11 if you are both goons you know there is only one PR. If Scum has a roleblocker and on PR bites the dust, they know the other role is present.

In this game scum does not have absolute knowledge. Fate you mention

Who is pretty sure about anything D1? Oh yeah, that's right. Scum. They already know 2/12 roles...

The "wagon leader" is the player with the most votes. Sorry for the confusion.

But in this game, scum knows only one thing no one else does, who their scum partner is.

Tho I agree Shrine is very premature to think he knows anything about tracker, this indicates ignorance more than scumminess. Remember, scum is also scumhunting. That being said, I want everyone to understand that in this set up, bussing is meaningless (shy one scenario I will discuss in a second).

People bus their partner to try and gain credibility to the town, or because not doing so would make them look suspicious. In f-11, hard mode bussing is providing the evidence to lynch your scum partner, knowing fully well that you are incriminating your scum partner and hoping this will make you look good to the town, and later it is up to them to try and establish whether or not you were bussing your partner. In this set up, if person A provides evidence for the lynch of person b, and person B is scum, we as a town cannot know whether or not that wagon was pushed based on knowledge (person A is scum partner) or on suspicion (person A could be different scum party). So person A does not gain townie points for enabling the lynch of scum. The exception to this is when one team has been eliminated, bussing functions as normal.

As for who has what knowledge, the faction with the most knowledge is the masons. They know who not to vote for.

@ Rayfrost and others, When DKU said "I did not take him seriously" I believe what DKU meant was "I did not think he was actually advocating for a self lynch", though the mention of a jester like role possibility seems a bit fishy, playing dumb for an open set up.

As for Yawetag, his suggestiong that DKU may be a mason was a misguided comment, but I doubt it was mason fishing.

for Flareonage, the

Unvote

VOTE: SaintKerrigan

Dana brought up valid points thus your vote is pointless

Is not suspicious, though the vote against SK was misguided. Sk was confused as to what DKU was saying about taking xreck seriously. Flare understood what DKU was trying to say, and agreed with the points DKU made (however newbish they may be), and flare thought that SK was scummy for voting DKU on the points DKU made, which is not why SK was voting DKU at all.

In summary, Flare and yawetag, not scummy. DKU not particularly scummy. Who is scummy? Xreck.

Xreckoner pushed for yawetag by straw man-ing that he was mason fishing, and after it was clear that his argument against yawetag was going to fall apart, he then chose to push the wagon back to somewhere it seemed like it would stick. His "That's why we need to lynch Flare. " makes no sense to me. I feel like he is trying to push anything that will stick, and quickly.

Vote: xRECKONERx

[cdubs]

oh hold on, I voted myself as a joke.

Unvote: Cdubs

Vote: xRECKONERx

[Shrinehme]

That kind of "confidence" is scummy because there's only 1 party that can be confident, and that's scum.

Well I disagree.

Why can only scum be confident [especially in this specific setup, where Scum, as Cdubs said, are

less

informed than usual]?

Instilling possibilities and suspicions is what this game's all about, friendo. You didn't miss that memo, did you?

I don't think so.

I'd prefer to have seen your opinions and thoughts on Dana rather than "Maybe the one trying to confuse the Town is you". You explicitly sidestepped giving the Town

your

thoughts on him [I still don't even know what they are. You bring up points against him, but don't have a vote on him or mention your stance on him.

Is he suspicious to you or not?

]. Just sprinkled suspicion and doubt over someone being already looked at. I don't consider that to be "what the game is all about". It just reads scummy to me. P:`,

And who said I backed away from the wagon?

That's how I interpreted the Unvote and lack of given opinion on him. See bold above.

[xRECKONERx]

Nah, dude. It was totally reactionary.

[yawetag]

Nah, dude. It was totally reactionary.

Reactionary to what action? You're going to have to be a lot more specific.

[xRECKONERx]

As in, I was voting you to see if you or other people would point out why I was voting you or try to get me lynched for it. As you can see, I never pushed for a full yawetag wagon, but I was constantly pushing for a Vaporeonage wagon.

PS, nothing was gleamed from this reaction-gambit of mine, other than the fact that evil is town.

[yawetag]

As you can see, I never pushed for a full yawetag wagon

And WE HAVE A WINNER! Your prize: a yawetag lynch. Do you accept y/n