Open 162--Trendy and Subversive - Over! before 831

[Khelvaster]

I like my unvotes to be unvote: player. It really makes things easier. Besides, you really ought to know who you are unvoting if you are unvoting . If you're really lazy, you can unvote: . Just don't unvote. Thank you, and have a nice day .

[Albert B. Rampage]

omg so annoying. Vote count please, preferably counting the batch of unvotes in the last page.

[Jahudo]

@Jahudo-73: I don't think that's a valid scumtell, discussing setup and meta when I'm supposed to be talking about... wait, we weren't talking about anything. Also, it's an obv. hyperbole that I have been talking about just those two matters, so you're basically stretching a case on me, which is scummy in itself.

Why did you feel the need to suddenly thrust the question my way?

I wasn't calling your setup and meta talk a scumtell, but rather your lack of opinions on anyone when you asked other people for player reads. I consider that a scumtell.

You think my statement was hyperbole? Prove it. You had not talked about anything of worth besides setup (which includes setup strategy and theory) and meta. You said nothing to indicate a feeling over another player.

[CSL]

@ Mod: Due to real life issues, I ask that I be replaced.

[Netopalis]

Well, that should improve discussion, at least. Jahudo, I think that Yabbaguy has probably contributed more of substance than most players, even if on average his posts haven't been as cutting as they could be. That being said, in a game where nobody is talking, I think that his posts are perfectly reasonable attempts to foster discussion. Realistically, the only 3 that have discussed at what I consider to be an appropriate level are myself, Jahudo and Yabba...Cass is a borderline case. Albert, CSL and Khamisa have all been really terrible lurkers. Therefore, I recommend that we turn our focus to them, in hopes of prodding them to actual discussion and contribution rather than in-fighting amongst those of us who are active. We can cut to each other's throats later, given enough evidence.

[Cass]

Very well, let's ask some questions then:

@Khamisa: who is more likely to be scum, Yabba or netopalis? Why?

@ABR: In this setup, is doc+nurse better for town, or cop+deputy? Why?

@Yabbaguy: So you think scum tends to lurk? In this specific game or in general?

@Jahudo: Do you think yabba's response to your attack was omgus, or something else? Why?

@Netopalis: Can you give us a top three of most scummy players? Preferably with some explanations.

For the mod:

Unvote: whoever I was voting

[Netopalis]

Whoa, wait a minute...Why are you narrowing your possible scum thing down to me or Yabba? It's entirely possible (and at this point, I think, probable) that neither of us are scum.

As for answering your question....

1) Cass - has been mildly active, but just enough to possibly attempt to avoid suspicion.
2) Jahudo - Not sure why, I'm afraid..I find him slightly scummy.
3) Khamisa - Lots of actions, no reasoning.

I left CSL off the list because he's being replaced.

That being said, my list is a total crapshoot, since, for the most part, people haven't said anything of importance.

[Jahudo]

That being said, in a game where nobody is talking, I think that his posts are perfectly reasonable attempts to foster discussion.

I don't think he was trying to foster discussion because he wasn't leading by example. If he was, he would formed his own player reads before needing to get reads from lurkers.

Pressuring the lurkers could help but we should not forget about the rest of us who are only starting to give contributions that matter (ie: what they think of other players).

@Jahudo: Do you think yabba's response to your attack was omgus, or something else? Why?

No, because he gives reasons. I see OMGUS as a suspicion without the attempt at showing a cause. I need to see how he responds to tell if his reasons are valid coming from his point of view.

Cass, any reason you asked those particular questions to only those people? It looks like most could be answered by anyone, even you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR: In this setup, is doc+nurse better for town, or cop+deputy? Why?

Cop + deputy has more bang for the buck.

[Khamisa]

sigh...

Unvote: Jahudo

Cass: I think yabbaguy is more likely, because Netopalis just seems more eager to get things done. It's not very strong though.

[Cass]

Whoa, wait a minute...Why are you narrowing your possible scum thing down to me or Yabba? It's entirely possible (and at this point, I think, probable) that neither of us are scum.

Where exactly did I do this?

Cass, any reason you asked those particular questions to only those people? It looks like most could be answered by anyone, even you.

I just made up a bunch of semi-random questios, to force people to say something, maybe start sa discussion. An attempt to increase involvement in this game.

[Netopalis]

Very well, let's ask some questions then:

@Khamisa: who is more likely to be scum, Yabba or netopalis? Why?

[Cass]

That was a question to khamisa, not my opinion. If it was, I would have said so. I'm not the cryptic/suggestive type of person, I prefer to be blunt and clear with my opinions when I give them.

[Netopalis]

Fair enough, I guess, but why did you ask only about the two of us?

[Khamisa]

I thought Neto was quoting it because he thought I hadn't answered it yet. Then I realized.

[Netopalis]

Mod: Any update on the CSL-replacement?

[yabbaguy]

@Jahudo-77: Please note the following relevant discussion:

@ABR-32: ... I'd like your response to Netopalis-30, for one.

@all: So this is my first game where our discussion has been noticeably slower than the rest, and I'm not quite sure how to go at this and start setting off more fireworks so that we can start doing more investigating. Any thoughts/ideas?

Big one coming up...

I can't notice anything alarmingly out of the ordinary in the first few pages, but that may be just because my mind's fried at present.

@Netopalis-45: The thing is, to me, I think this is way too soon to be going after people for lurking (etc.)

3) The moderator hasn't even technically said "go" yet. Let's not forget that.

Yes, your statement is a huge hyperbole. I think it and other factors warrant enough for an initial vote.

Vote: Jahudo

@Cass-80: So you or Khamisa don't think (according to later posts) that me or Netopalis was necessarily scum before you asked? Why did you ask that question, then? I don't know if strawman is the right word, but it feels forcing.

To answer my assigned question, I think there is a certain degree to which scum do lurking more often than town, probably because they have to say "the right thing" somewhat, and that they actually serve to benefit if the town's discussion declines. Both sides are capable, and the tell should not by any means be construed as surefire.

@ABR-83: There was a "why" on the end. You're basically actively lurking with blatantly minimalistic replies.

@Khelvaster

: Can we get a "Vote:" count? I put that colon there so you'd see my request.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Jahudo

[Jahudo]

@Yabba: I was explicitly talking about instances where you gave an opinion about who was scum. None of these quotes are relevant.

@ABR-32: ... I'd like your response to Netopalis-30, for one.

This question does not indicate any opinion on your part.

@all: So this is my first game where our discussion has been noticeably slower than the rest, and I'm not quite sure how to go at this and start setting off more fireworks so that we can start doing more investigating. Any thoughts/ideas?

This is just fluff. Anybody can look pro-active this way but it takes actual investigating to, you know, investigate.

I can't notice anything alarmingly out of the ordinary in the first few pages, but that may be just because my mind's fried at present.

The lack of an opinion on who is scum does not help us find scum.

@Netopalis-45: The thing is, to me, I think this is way too soon to be going after people for lurking (etc.)

That's great but you don't say whether you think he's suspicious for bringing that up. It's just personal preference. It has nothing to do with scumhunting.

3) The moderator hasn't even technically said "go" yet. Let's not forget that.

Another fluff post. It doesn't give anyone a better idea who you think is scum.

It looks to me like your trying to subvert my suspicion by changing the topic. I did not call into question your activity level. I called into question your lack of player reads.

I find your vote defensive and reactionary. No comment on ABR's vote; I need to see where he takes it.

[yabbaguy]

You had not talked about anything of worth besides setup

That phrase. You explictly said "nothing besides that and meta". There's your hyperbole.

Also, let's take note here, you're targetting me for something multiple other people have done as well, not offering input as to who is scum and who isn't, and just taking the same icebreaker questionnaires that we distributed at the start of the Day. I on the other hand have actually tried to offer, yes, objective and unopiniated questions along with it, while others have not even done so much as that given the opportunity (Khamisa, CSL, ABR come to mind off the top). Calling me scummy for actively trying to offer discussion in comparison is asinine and contrived.

This is good scumhunting to not take a side too quickly and try to see things from a neutral POV before going at it. You on the other hand have decided to fire at me immediately, which to me I deemed scummy because it looks like you're basically trying to pin blame off the bat so that scum have an endgame exit.

It looks to me like your trying to subvert my suspicion by changing the topic.

Elaborate.

[Jahudo]

Also, let's take note here, you're targetting me for something multiple other people have done as well, not offering input as to who is scum and who isn't, and just taking the same icebreaker questionnaires that we distributed at the start of the Day.

Who is the multiple other people? Neto answered his own questionaire in the same post. You asked two people to give reads that you had not given yet. That's a big scumtell for me.

Calling me scummy for actively trying to offer discussion in comparison is asinine and contrived.

I did not call you scummy for that reason. I called you scummy for holding back your first impressions on people until other people gave those impressions first.

It looks to me like your trying to subvert my suspicion by changing the topic.

Elaborate.

You are trying to make the argument that I am suspicious of you because of your level of pro-town contribution. On the contrary I think you've done alot of pro-town things like asking questions, making observations about setup, posting often and trying to get other people posting often.

But my recent suspicion of you was trying to get suspicion reads off people before you had given your own reads. That's the only thing that bothers me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning for now.

[CSL]

Nevermind. Normalcy has returned.

Where does Jahudo stand on votes?

[Cass]

Fair enough, I guess, but why did you ask only about the two of us?

Just picked two players who had both had cases on them, so Khamisa could make an informed choice.

@Cass-80: So you or Khamisa don't think (according to later posts) that me or Netopalis was necessarily scum before you asked? Why did you ask that question, then? I don't know if strawman is the right word, but it feels forcing.

It's the kind of question that's good for sparking responses, if only from the two players compared What I did is ask each player a question that should be easy to answer for them. Khamisa was a bit lurkerish, so I wanted her to express an opinion on something.

I am bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning for now.

Great tactic!

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Cass]

Where does Jahudo stand on votes?

Youknow, I hope I miscounted here, but depending on our mod's nitpickingness he might be lynched now... Else he is at L-1.

Mod: A vote:count, pretty please

.