Mini 783: Cowboy Bebop Mafia - Game Over, Space Cowboy

[VP Baltar]

Late = Wait until massclaim time or some other time at which you are prompted for a claim near your own lynching.

If it came to massclaim I don't see what it would hurt waiting, as it may or may not mean anything. "some other time" seems like it might fall under this:

Only one I'd auto hate on would be you claiming after getting investigated.

Also, if it was massclaim and someone claimed an investigative role before you and you claimed miller afterward, it might look kind of suspicious.

So, I guess I don't think claiming miller is such a bad thing early on. Probably cuts down on WIFOM some because you don't have a whole game to go back an analyze when considering if you believe the person or not.

Just thought of something else as well, it might actually be helpful to the town because if an investigative role did check Juls out and returned an innocent it would be a good indicator of that role's sanity.

Anyhow, did you find the game Juls was referencing and did you confirm what she said?

[ShadowGirl]

@ShadowGirl: Am I scummy for suggesting that we skip the RVS in favor of revealing discussion?

@VP: Where have you heard of me? :3

@Juls: Ah, what luck to get miller~

@PF: I don't see any reason not to ask for a flavour claim. I'm not familliar with the flavour or anything, or whether revealing hers could help scum?

Here is the game that she's talking about : Insane Asylum

I mean, I should know considering I'm the one who replaced her. xD

[ShadowGirl]

@Vi: The sentence deleted itself right after I pressed post. o_O

No, I don't think you're scummy for skipping the RVS - perhaps the opposite, even.

[Vi]

ITT, walls of text on Page 2 and earlier. I'm sure Jahudo expected as much with people like me in this game

No, I wouldn't say nervous. I actually like playing with people who have more experience because it challenges you to play better.

Good answer. I think we'll get along well on a personal level.

Is this the first game you have played where you didn't want a random voting stage? If so any particular reason you didn't want one?

Yes, it is.
I wanted to try it because I saw a game where mith did something similar and I thought this player group was competent enough to try it. What I'd like to learn is whether it's easier to get out of this "leading discussion" phase and into serious play than going from an RVS to serious play.

Plus if someone says "hai gaiz" and votes we can all wagon that player for being a Philistine

So it's basically for academic reasons.

Bonus Question addressed to everyone:
Do you believe her and why?

Yes, I do. For one, I'm *cough* quite aware of the circumstances surrounding her departure from the site earlier, and accept her explanation for why she claimed. For two, I don't see her as scum claiming Miller just because from what I know of her, I wouldn't expect her to play such a gamble (especially with a player list like this!). For three, I also like that tactic, because it prevents me from having to answer a LOT of questions later on (see Mind Screw Gaiden, where I was told I would investigate as "Richard Nixon, Serial Killer" or the closest equivalent - what a nightmare that could have been). And for four, I really don't care much; I'd rather learn her alignment through her actions.

So what do I get for answering the Bonus Question

Also, anyone know anything about this Cowboy Bebop TV show? Until I got my role PM, I assumed we were all gonna be ridin' steers and square dancin'. Yee Haw!

Nope.
I've heard of the trope Cowboy Bebop At His Computer, but that's it.

Do you have any questions for anyone else? Not asking any that you weren't asked yourself except for the flavor-based one seems somewhat weak at best. And by weak I mean scummy, and by scummy I mean "you know what happens when you catch my attention".

Just thought of something else as well, it might actually be helpful to the town because if an investigative role did check Juls out and returned an innocent it would be a good indicator of that role's sanity.

Do you think it would be worth the Cop's time (and the Town's) to confirm sanity by basically blowing an investigation?
I guess it would also be good to note that sometimes Millerization is factored in after sanity (so an unknowing Naive Cop may investigate a Miller and get a Guilty result).

Perhaps the mod can clear this up?

No, I don't think you're scummy for skipping the RVS - perhaps the opposite, even.

Why?
Also, where did your username come from?

[ShadowGirl]

@Vi:
The RVS seems to elicit trivial reasons that lead to people's lynch. Then again, I've practically been in large theme's for the past while, so it could merely be an observation on those type of games.

I was on another forum simply with the name 'Shadow' and was often mistaken for a guy, so I tacked on the second part.

Do you believe her and why?

For some reason I'm slightly torn - perhaps because I was the one who replaced her in that game. However, I do lean towards believing her. Her current behaviour seems to match that of the other game. It could possibly be a scum gambit, but I don't believe it is.

[Jahudo]

I guess it would also be good to note that sometimes Millerization is factored in after sanity (so an unknowing Naive Cop may investigate a Miller and get a Guilty result).

Perhaps the mod can clear this up?

The scan would get the same result on a potential miller as it would for a scum without investigation immunity. A naive cop will always get innocent results; an insane cop will see a miller as innocent.

[Juls]

Only have a second because I am studying but Cowboy Bebop is the one and only anime series I have watched (due to much prodding by my husband). I really wanted him to play this game but after I played the marathon version I told him he was gonna have to fight me for it because I find Jahudo to be an excellent flavor/setup man.

Ed is the most interesting character to me because Ed is a girl. In fact, that would be a perfect role for Vi. So, I demand that Ed be added to your avatar list for future use Vi!!!

[Vi]

So, I demand that Ed be added to your avatar list for future use Vi!!!

My soul is getting stared into.

[VP Baltar]

@VP: Where have you heard of me? :3

"Upon closer inspection, these are penny loafers."

I guess I haven't, sorry. I was confusing you with ShadowLurker. You can strike your name from that list, 'cause I have no clue who the hell you are .

Do you think it would be worth the Cop's time (and the Town's) to confirm sanity by basically blowing an investigation?

Potentially. On a purely hypothetical level, if cop received multiple guilties in a row and wasn't sure if they were true or not it could be worthwhile to test it on someone you are somewhat sure of what the result should be. Obviously there is some risk involved depending on the sanity because one could still get a guilty result, but it might be less than the risk of a cop calling out someone they think is scum, lynching town and then being subsequently lynched themselves.

Yay for random speculating.

It could possibly be a scum gambit, but I don't believe it is.

Well, if don't believe it is and you know the circumstances around her replacement in the other game, why do you only "lean towards believing her". This is probably nitpicking because so many people are wishy-washy in what they say, but it seems to me like either you believe her or you do not given the evidence.

[ShadowGirl]

@VP: Where have you heard of me? :3

"Upon closer inspection, these are penny loafers."

I guess I haven't, sorry. I was confusing you with ShadowLurker. You can strike your name from that list, 'cause I have no clue who the hell you are .

Yeah, I didn't think I was that prominent a member. I think I may have heard of you... were you perhaps nominated for a Scummy?

Well, if don't believe it is and you know the circumstances around her replacement in the other game, why do you only "lean towards believing her". This is probably nitpicking because so many people are wishy-washy in what they say, but it seems to me like either you believe her or you do not given the evidence.

That's my style of writing, I suppose. I tend to write what I think, and in that thought process is doubt.

Then to clarify: I believe her.

[VP Baltar]

were you perhaps nominated for a Scummy?

Yep.

And don't worry, it's not just you who writes like that. A lot of people do, which makes determining fence sitting much more difficult. Thanks for clarifying your position though.

[ShadowGirl]

My memory has not failed me.

I try to be as clear as possible, but I do understand how it is sometimes hard to determine fencesitting. I'll try have a 'to clarify' if I'm writing big walls of incomprehensible text in the future. <3

I, as well believe that Juls shouldn't be checked out until later in the game or cop/s had doubt/s about their sanities. I mean, Jahudo did promise crazy stuff in this game, but I don't think it will be say, as insane with sanities as the link to the game I posted to.

I feel guilty for taking up nearly every other post. >_>;

[Rhinox]

For some reason I'm slightly torn - perhaps because I was the one who replaced her in that game. However, I do lean towards believing her. Her current behaviour seems to match that of the other game. It could possibly be a scum gambit, but I don't believe it is.

We're on page 2 and Juls has only posted what, 5 times, and you already think you can match her playstyle in this game to her other game? I find this suspicious.

Do you have any questions for anyone else? Not asking any that you weren't asked yourself except for the flavor-based one seems somewhat weak at best. And by weak I mean scummy, and by scummy I mean "you know what happens when you catch my attention".

Awww man I know where this is going... I'll be an SK by page 3!

Anyways, I didn't get the memo that we replaced the RVS with the RNQS (Random Non-sense question Stage)... So here's a couple: Whats so scummy about not asking questions (yet!), and why am I being singled out when at least 3 other players who have posted so far haven't been asking questions either?

So, I demand that Ed be added to your avatar list for future use Vi!!!

My soul is getting stared into.

Yikes!

Yeah, I didn't think I was that prominent a member. I think I may have heard of you... were you perhaps nominated for a Scummy?

I know who you are

were you perhaps nominated for a Scummy?

Yep.

yeah, and I was on the receiving end of that spanking that earned you the nom grrr... now I know what Vi felt like (Hey, I hold grudges when I get whooped)

[ShadowGirl]

We're on page 2 and Juls has only posted what, 5 times, and you already think you can match her playstyle in this game to her other game? I find this suspicious.

'Seems' to match - obviously it can't be 100% accurate play by play, especially considering she was in the other game for like, six pages. Just the... easily frustrated/irritable behaviour appears to be similar.

I know who you are.

How so?

[PokerFace]

Anyhow, did you find the game Juls was referencing and did you confirm what she said?

No I didn't. I was posting while at work and got home only recently so I haven't had enough time to read the exact insane asylum game. Do i believe the Claim? I kinda would like to see what everyone else says first in order to better gauge their reactions and alignments, but I'll bite this time. After all, I didn't vote for Juls did I? I have seen/heard tales from Moratorioum of Juls getting frustraited deeply at a game even one as simple as a mishmash game so I already know part of the story checks out. What should we do about her? Use her general play in this game to decide if we should lynch her. Vi is correct on handling that

Since I've been in so many games with Juls,

I would say I don't think its in her nature to try this kind of a gambit as scum. However, its possible she'd been planning on trying it ever since that last game she linked to. Again, I don't know a whole lot about millers.

You seem to backtrack, counter, or undermine your own logic here. That is bad and scummy to feign from giving a straight answer. I'm betting Rhinox scum that wants to blend in with the overall opinion of Juls without throwing away the option of getting everyone to mislynch Juls later.

Vote: Rhinox

@Baltar, what did you think of Rhinox response in comparision to Shadow Girls original one?

And here is some info on Cowboy Bebop for those who have not seen the show before
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Bebop

Also one pro about claiming miller early is giving the cop a free investigation. Don't see why the cop should want to check juls in order to gauge their sanity. I doubt we have a sanity challenged one in this game. Also I think it is probably a good idea to hear Juls role 'flavor'. Not sure which of the show's character would rationally be a miller in this game.

[ShadowGirl]

Since I clearly have no intention of beginning an assignment at the moment:

Again, I don't know a whole lot about millers.

To clarify: do you not know not merely how to handle them, or what the role does?

[VP Baltar]

@Baltar, what did you think of Rhinox response in comparision to Shadow Girls original one?

Both wishy-washy, and thanks for pointing that out. I was working earlier and must have missed it. I think Rhinox's is a bit stronger fence sitting since SG was much more obvious what she meant and I just wanted to guage her reaction a bit.

I doubt we have a sanity challenged one in this game.

Care to clue the rest of us into the secret?

[Jahudo]

PF: That link shouldn't have a period in it. Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_bebop

And this is a Cowboy Bebop encyclopedia I maintain:
http://cowboybebop.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
It's still incomplete but it couldn't hurt to browse through the episodes (called sessions) that are online.

I'll get a vote count up when everyone else has confirmed.

[Vi]

Anyways, I didn't get the memo that we replaced the RVS with the RNQS (Random Non-sense question Stage)...

Um... lies? Damned lies? Perhaps even statistics?
I mean, I said pretty plainly that I wanted to try it, a bunch of other people went with it (voluntarily!), and you yourself commented--

Not sure what I think about intentionally trying to avoid the random voting stage... but in this case, it seems... natural.

So here's a couple: Whats so scummy about not asking questions (yet!), and why am I being singled out when at least 3 other players who have posted so far haven't been asking questions either?

Because all we're DOING is asking questions. This has been the case since halfway down Page 1. You posted at the end of Page 1, after me and Pokerface and whoever else had already started.
You're being singled out because the people who have posted but haven't gotten into the conversation (don_johnson) came before the interrogation began, and the other three are simply absent.
I'm not sure what the pro-Town reasoning would be for trying to get me to look at noncontributors on Page 2.

PokerFace has the right idea.

Vote: Rhinox

(L-5)

Awww man I know where this is going... I'll be an SK by page 3!

Nah, just Mafia by Page 2. I'm doing better than you thought

----

And this is a Cowboy Bebop encyclopedia

I

maintain:

Oh...? Now I know why you chose this theme.
I'll definitely take an Edward avatar now that I know more, btw.

[Rhinox]

I know who you are.

How so?

SAW GAME

You seem to backtrack, counter, or undermine your own logic here. That is bad and scummy to feign from giving a straight answer. I'm betting Rhinox scum that wants to blend in with the overall opinion of Juls without throwing away the option of getting everyone to mislynch Juls later.

Vote: Rhinox

Just because I don't believe Juls would try a gambit like that as scum doesn't mean she wouldn't, nor does it mean I think its more likely she is. But, I don't think it wise to lock into one way of thinking on page 2. As shadowgirl later clarified, I too believe juls. For now. But as you and Vi both pointed out, her play in this game is probably whats going to determine whether or not I would vote to lynch Juls.

Now you get questions: How do you know Juls would be a mislynch? What logic am I undermining/backtracking? Why am I being singled out when everyone else who has answered, including yourself, has been somewhat vague and left the option open to lynch juls later on?

Since I clearly have no intention of beginning an assignment at the moment:

Again, I don't know a whole lot about millers.

To clarify: do you not know not merely how to handle them, or what the role does?

I know what the role does. I don't know the best way to handle them, typically, but it seems the correct answer when they early claim is to let their actions decide if they get lynched.

----------------------

yikes! can't keep up with everyone all of a sudden.

Um... lies? Damned lies? Perhaps even statistics?
I mean, I said pretty plainly that I wanted to try it, a bunch of other people went with it (voluntarily!), and you yourself commented--

Um... Misrep?

Let me rephrase... when I agreed with the natural absence of the RVS, I did realize I signed a blood contract that if I didn't start asking questions right away I would be deemed scum.

Because all we're DOING is asking questions. This has been the case since halfway down Page 1. You posted at the end of Page 1, after me and Pokerface and whoever else had already started.

Not quite, actually. Half of the players are answering questions. Not all can be discussion leaders all the time.

You're being singled out because the people who have posted but haven't gotten into the conversation (don_johnson) came before the interrogation began, and the other three are simply absent.
I'm not sure what the pro-Town reasoning would be for trying to get me to look at noncontributors on Page 2.

Ya might wanna read that one again. 3 other players who HAVE posted weren't asking questions either (hint: Shadowgirl, baltar, and Juls), and they all posted before/during the question phase. I haven't even thought of non-contribs yet.

Nah, just Mafia by Page 2. I'm doing better than you thought

*sigh*

[PokerFace]

Doh!! You know you could have just edited out the period in that link since you are the mod Jahudo. Also who are we waiting on confirmationwise. I lost track. Think you could bold the confirmed players on the player list to make it easier to tell this?

Done and done. ~Jah

Not quite sure I'm buying balter only seeing SG. SG did seem more to the point than Rhinox and I think its unlikly Balter would get the small one and miss the bigger one. I'm thinking Balter could be Rhinox's buddy.

And as far as secret's go I've only seen one mini game with an insane cop in it so I just find it unlikly from an expierence stand point. If we do have a miller I don't see a point in further complicating things by throwing in an non-sane cop. Feels like kicking a man while he's already down

[ShadowGirl]

I know who you are.

How so?

SAW GAME

Oh, wow. Guess my memory isn't that

good

. >>
Different avatar?

I know what the role does. I don't know the best way to handle them, typically, but it seems the correct answer when they early claim is to let their actions decide if they get lynched.

Alright. It was the combination of the following statements that made me unsure of what information pertaining millers you didn't know about - since it seemed you had a grasp of what they did. I was unsure as to what you didn't know about millers.

I'd say the biggest reason to claiming miller early is so a cop doesn't waste an investiation on you. Perhaps there are more/better - I've certainly seen the "when to claim miller" thread and can go back and parrot some pros, but I don't think I've been in a game with a miller before so I'm not sure the best way to handle them.

Again, I don't know a whole lot about millers.

@PF: I don't know, I wouldn't want to count out sanities just yet. I mean, Insane Mafia was... well, insane and that was a mini. Summary: Two millers, one death miller, one anti-miller. One sane, one insane cop. And a godfather. But then again, this is forbiddan.

[PokerFace]

Answers in bold

Now you get questions:
How do you know Juls would be a mislynch?

I don't. I was illustrating a point of view a scum like you could have there

What logic am I undermining/backtracking?

Your own. You back tracked. You said I doubt someone with here character would do this and then you said but what she could have been planning this all along. A better answer would have been I don't think she would lie it's not in her character

Why am I being singled out when everyone else who has answered, including yourself, has been somewhat vague and left the option open to lynch juls later on?

I didn't go back on my logic. You said one thing then looked at the oposite perspective. I said I believed and did not imediatly say I disbelieve or give a worst case scenario that instills doubt in my previous logic. Causing a mislynch would be a 'possible' extension there.

[PokerFace]

@PF: I don't know, I wouldn't want to count out sanities just yet. I mean, Insane Mafia was... well, insane and that was a mini. Summary: Two millers, one death miller, one anti-miller. One sane, one insane cop. And a godfather. But then again, this is forbiddan.

Damn what was she smoking? Pass that good shit arround[/bad joke]

[Rhinox]

Your own. You back tracked. You said I doubt someone with here character would do this and then you said but what she could have been planning this all along. A better answer would have been I don't think she would lie it's not in her character

So you're actually attacking how I chose to say what I said, rather than the actual content of what I said? I don't think I contradicted myself, because that would mean I was 100% committed to one particular side. I don't see a problem with discussing all possibilities, as they are, well, indeed possible!