War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Cybele]

Right. So, I think it will be key to pay attention to the health of each player, and to check for any discrepencies. Each one is a clue for town. In the other games, the Fallen had a rage ability, allowing them to hurt other players secretly, but that damage did appear in the updates.

That being said, I don't plan to participate in any random hurting phase, and will only heal until we see someone acting scummily.

[Hoopla]

Good luck everyone!

So, I'm not super familiar with what the most sensible play is when it comes to hurting and healing, but from what I've read of the previous versions of these games, it's possible scum accrue extra damage/powers over time. I think it's in our interest to play this game in a relatively quick fashion.

Hurt: DrippingGoofball

Hi!

[Cybele]

Well, that was quick. *sigh*

Heal: DGB

[Kinetic]

Finally.

OK First off, don't be an idiot and hurt too quickly.

Kills/Lynches need to be decided before the first hurt. We cannot allow players to build up hurts, because especially in late game if we let this get out a hand it won't matter what sort of majority we have because without order the scum will win.

This game is less about majority and more about coordination. We need to coordinate our actions or else we will be forced to react.

As it stands, I'd like to propose the first rule of this war: Heal anyone who is Hurt unless we have decided to lynch/kill them, much like Cybele has done.

Random/reactions need to be reigned in.

Second rule, you MUST be active. In this game where a coordinate assault by a minority can cause a kill the town MUST be active to prevent an active minority from taking this game.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

This is not a game you can sit back and win. If you are not active, leave and be replaced now. I refuse to allow you to ruin it.

[Hoopla]

Kinetic, do you think scum will be generating 'rage points' this game also? In the last mini that was run, they received one every Sunday. Reading through, there was a point where they had stored at least 6 between them I believe.

If scum aren't in danger, or under pressure, their best strategy would be to let them accumulate until later in the game where they will be more decisive. As much as 'quick' days will be bad, we can't allow gaps of more than two weeks in between kills, I'd say.

[populartajo]

Cybele beat me to it. Rage points. Last time I forgot and it lost the game for town.
Some things you should know.

1. Scum have rage points. After some days scum can acquire additional secret damage. That punishes town for not getting a quick consensus and for dragging the game too long.

2. There are fallen angels that mirror our current roles. There is a Fallen Arel, a Fallen Seraph etc. You get the idea.

3. I was an Ophan (aka tracker) in the last game and trust me it was very hard to spot any action, since the only possible actions you could get is another Ophan watching someone or some random scum using rage points. There could possibly be a Fallen Ophan in this game, too. You know that you cant hurt/heal after you use your ability, so dont be too obvious.

4. As it is easily inferred, the Cherubs were the vanillas of the game.

Here is the distribution in the previous mini-game.

In Memoriam (9):
Coron, a loyal Cherub, was cast out during the first Æon.
populartajo, a loyal Ophan, was killed in the second Æon.
Max, a loyal Cherub, was killed during the third Æon.
kabenon007, a loyal Cherub, was driven out during the fifth Æon.
Musher333, a loyal Arel, was cast out during the sixth Æon.
Firestarter, a loyal Cherub, was driven out during the seventh Æon.
Mellowed Man, a loyal Ophan, was killed in the eighth Æon.
q21, a loyal Cherub, was driven out during the ninth Æon.
goborage, a loyal Seraph, was killed in the tenth and final Æon.

Vis Vires (3):
vIQleS, a Fallen Arel
pojedinac, Fallen Seraph
Natirasha, a Fallen Cherub, was cast out during the fourth Æon.

[populartajo]

Oh and here is the scum PM from the other game

In addition to your usual powers, the force of your betrayal and anger give you strength. Every Sunday at noon (server time), you will receive 1 Rage Point that you may use in a secret attack by PMing me with a player's name. This damage will be reflected in the next damage tally, but not associated with your name. You may store them up, to a maximum of 3. If you are killed/cast out, you lose any remaining points.

You begin the game with 8 HP. You win if all loyal angels are killed, and at least one fallen angel survives. You may talk to your fellow (living) fallen angels outside of the game thread at any time, since this game is Nightless. If you are killed/cast out, stop talking.

[populartajo]

Finally.

OK First off, don't be an idiot and hurt too quickly.

Kills/Lynches need to be decided before the first hurt. We cannot allow players to build up hurts, because especially in late game if we let this get out a hand it won't matter what sort of majority we have because without order the scum will win.

This game is less about majority and more about coordination. We need to coordinate our actions or else we will be forced to react.

As it stands, I'd like to propose the first rule of this war: Heal anyone who is Hurt unless we have decided to lynch/kill them, much like Cybele has done.

Random/reactions need to be reigned in.

Second rule, you MUST be active. In this game where a coordinate assault by a minority can cause a kill the town MUST be active to prevent an active minority from taking this game.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

This is not a game you can sit back and win. If you are not active, leave and be replaced now. I refuse to allow you to ruin it.

After all that has been said, do you still think this?

[populartajo]

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.
2. So I propose we do a mass healing of everyone to take them to one more point of their current HP before we start hurting. This could be beneficial someday.
3. We also could manage to have a fake votecount instead of having people hurting and/or healing. Like a normal game when someone is majority fake voted we could mass hurting him and "lynch" him.

[Kinetic]

Finally.

OK First off, don't be an idiot and hurt too quickly.

Kills/Lynches need to be decided before the first hurt. We cannot allow players to build up hurts, because especially in late game if we let this get out a hand it won't matter what sort of majority we have because without order the scum will win.

This game is less about majority and more about coordination. We need to coordinate our actions or else we will be forced to react.

As it stands, I'd like to propose the first rule of this war: Heal anyone who is Hurt unless we have decided to lynch/kill them, much like Cybele has done.

Random/reactions need to be reigned in.

Second rule, you MUST be active. In this game where a coordinate assault by a minority can cause a kill the town MUST be active to prevent an active minority from taking this game.

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

This is not a game you can sit back and win. If you are not active, leave and be replaced now. I refuse to allow you to ruin it.

After all that has been said, do you still think this?

True I didn't know about the specifics of rage points, however I did anticipate a way to secretly hurt. As such, because of this point you brought up (and what I was eluding to in my previous post), we should be able to minimize their effect.

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.

As long as we keep everyone topped off unless we decide to kill them, the less secret damage becomes an issue.

Either way I'm still going to look over all the information carefully and see if there is anything I missed.

[Hoopla]

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.
2. So I propose we do a mass healing of everyone to take them to one more point of their current HP before we start hurting. This could be beneficial someday.
3. We also could manage to have a fake votecount instead of having people hurting and/or healing. Like a normal game when someone is majority fake voted we could mass hurting him and "lynch" him.

These are actually good points - I endorse them all. A mass heal would slightly negate the value of rage points. The fake voting works well too.

[Tenchi]

Good luck everyone!

So, I'm not super familiar with what the most sensible play is when it comes to hurting and healing, but from what I've read of the previous versions of these games, it's possible scum accrue extra damage/powers over time. I think it's in our interest to play this game in a relatively quick fashion.

Hurt: DrippingGoofball

Hi!

When I read the previous versions, the first thing I noticed was the "fake votecounts" (eventhough this game only had HURT and HEAL actions).

I didn't even notice the Rage points until the others have pointed it out.

I am quite surprised you noticed the Rage points WITHOUT noticing the fake vote counts (and how it could possibly help counteract RAGE points/random hurting). Makes me think you really didn't read the game and just have the knowledge of RAGE points.

FOS: Hoopla

[Tenchi]

Heal: PopTajo

[Albert B. Rampage]

FOS: Kinetic

You want to make the day as long as possible, which goes in direct contradiction to this rage point theory.

FOS: Tenchi

Sounds like something scum would say.

[Xylthixlm]

A haiku:

Concentrate our fire,
Don't spend too long debating,
And NUKE ALL LURKERS

[Juls]

Heal Xyl

I endorse the top everyone off strategy.

[q21]

Quick days will only HELP the scum, so I intend to draw out their intentions and actions and refuse to let them cause chaos and push the town into hasty actions.

Wrong. Long days allow scum to accumulate rage points as has been pointed out. Quick days in terms of real life time help the town. Optimal town play requires long day is terms of posts but quick in terms of time.

Sorry for the fourth post but I think this is also important:
1. Town lost last time because town's HP were already low for random hurtings. I dont agree with random hurting but I also dont agree with long days (more rage points). We have to find a balance.

It didn't help, but what decided the game was MellowedMan's sabotage of the town. In general I agree with this statement, though.

2. So I propose we do a mass healing of everyone to take them to one more point of their current HP before we start hurting. This could be beneficial someday.

Agreed.

Heal: Cybele

3. We also could manage to have a fake votecount instead of having people hurting and/or healing. Like a normal game when someone is majority fake voted we could mass hurting him and "lynch" him.

This was a good idea in theory, but we deliberated too long. If we can make fake vote counts but come to a consensus relatively quickly then voting works.

Also.

Fake Vote: Hoopla[/b]
Her reasoning skills are better than that.

[Xylthixlm]

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

As several people have said, a fast-paced game helps the town even more than normal. Expect scum to try to slow it down by lurking.

[q21]

Are you suggesting we just finish off anyone who gets hurt too much? Because this game is helped by decisive action, not killing off anyone who draws a few hits.

Its too easy for scum to subvert that line of thinking.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

Err... Wouldn't that help the scum? I mean, if we concentrate the fire on only one player, scum will surely take advantage of that. I don't know, that you suggest is really suspicious.

FoS: Xylthixlm

(what a complicated username...)

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

[Nuwen]

Like a wagon, each method of hurting has both pro-town and pro-scum advantages - we need to focus finding an optimal equilibrium. Spreading around damage equally might result in a mass kill approximately three or four weeks into the game. However, focus firing has every disadvantage (and potential advantage) of a normal mislynch.

I don't think that scum is any more likely to draw that parallel than town, so Shinnen's suspicions seem to be based on a null tell.

If we do choose to focus fire, I think we should avoid mass-firing in a short time and always have a heal cooldown ready for a rage damage dump.

[Cybele]

If we do choose to focus fire, I think we should avoid mass-firing in a short time and always have a heal cooldown ready for a rage damage dump.

This. After everyone has used their hurt/heal is the best time for scum to pick off a mislynch.

[Hoopla]

I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

HP caps at 1 above your starting amount. Bumping everyone's HP up by 1 slightly minimises the effectiveness of scum rage points, which makes sense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thank you Hoop.

Heal: Nuwen

Heal me back please