Mini 747 Over.

[Shadow Knight]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

@ xofelf- I don't think we're out of the random voting stage just yet, at least I haven't seen enough to build a real case on anyone yet. Have you?

[Hoopla]

Unvote, vote: Theinin

Care to actually give a reason on that one? Because just randomly voting doesn't help us.

Shadow Knight answered for me, and you should answer his question - but I have one for him;

Why are you uncomfortable with what are essentially random votes, even if there are four of them? I think we're sensible enough not to mislynch randomly.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Count Numero Dos: (As of Post 53)
ZEEnon- (4) - Cephir, Erratus Apathos, geraintm, Panzerjager
Theinin- (2) - Shadow Knight, Hoopla
Panzerjager - (1) - xofelf
J Assassin- (1) - Theinin
Erratus Apathos - (1) - ZEEnon
Hoopla- (1) -nicoliosgotpolio
nicoliosgotpolio- (1) - Khelvaster

Not Voting: J Assassin

With 12 alive, 7 will lynch.

Deadline is March 14 at 2:05 PM EST.

[PJ.]

FoS:Nicolios

Woohoo I think Khelv is right but lets see If I can get 2

Unvote:Vote:ZEEnon

I investigated you and know you're a scummy face.

@Geraintm: I'm actually trying to win you over, Is this not working?

[geraintm]

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

[Shadow Knight]

It makes me uncomfortable because we're still random voting. I realize that we're going to end up bandwagonning someone, but there is usually some reason for it. I'm not happy about a flimsy bandwagon, but I'm downright leery of a bandwagon that consists entirely of random votes. At least a flimsy case he can argue against and then we can make observations based on what he and his accusers say. What's the defense against random votes? (Not sure I explained my thoughts well enough, but that's my basic thinking on it.)

[xofelf]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

@ xofelf- I don't think we're out of the random voting stage just yet, at least I haven't seen enough to build a real case on anyone yet. Have you?

I haven't seen anything to do that yet, you are correct. But, i can't help but see that we're delaying actually GETTING there by all this playing around.

[Hoopla]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

@ xofelf- I don't think we're out of the random voting stage just yet, at least I haven't seen enough to build a real case on anyone yet. Have you?

I haven't seen anything to do that yet, you are correct. But, i can't help but see that we're delaying actually GETTING there by all this playing around.

It isn't really a process that can be fast-tracked, unless someone does something outrageously fishy, or makes a (serious) early role-claim. You can't build cases with air.

[Shadow Knight]

As far as I can tell, the "getting there" process involves waiting for or getting someone to make a slightly scummy move and then trying to crucify them for it. Whether it turns into a lynch or not is mostly up to how good a defense the accused can muster.

[Erratus Apathos]

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

[xofelf]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

@ xofelf- I don't think we're out of the random voting stage just yet, at least I haven't seen enough to build a real case on anyone yet. Have you?

I haven't seen anything to do that yet, you are correct. But, i can't help but see that we're delaying actually GETTING there by all this playing around.

It isn't really a process that can be fast-tracked, unless someone does something outrageously fishy, or makes a (serious) early role-claim. You can't build cases with air.

eh good point. I just get frustrated when a game seems to be going longer than it needs to. *shrugs* but that's just me.

[Hoopla]

eh good point. I just get frustrated when a game seems to be going longer than it needs to. *shrugs* but that's just me.

You should just fess up now then.

[xofelf]

eh good point. I just get frustrated when a game seems to be going longer than it needs to. *shrugs* but that's just me.

You should just fess up now then.

Fess up? to what?

[Cephrir]

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

Damn, you got me.

Anyway, I don't see any problem with having 4 votes on ZEEnon. If we never do anything interesting the game will never go anywhere.

I'll go with an

FoS: nicolio

because that post was really strange.

[Theinin]

ShadowKnight & Hoopla- Exactly why did you take a post that begins with the words "Alright, hmm, what will get the town talking" seriously?

At the moment I'm not liking Panzer's erratic and outright crazy play, but I don't see it as particularly scummy. It feels like he's just making an attempt to start up conversation, and he has done so.

1. Are you seriously claiming day cop?

2. Why would you come forward so soon?

I don't really think you are a day cop (hence, not voting for khelvaster) but don't you think there are other methods for starting conversation? Starting out with a claim like that if false is dangerous on the off chance that there really *is* a day cop out there. Not sure he/she'd be dumb enough to counter claim you, but its a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

/rant

FOS Panzer

I already asked why you took Panzer's claim seriously, but why FOS him? Even if he was lying about the claim, it was rather clearly to stir up discussion, something a pro-town player is much more likely to do than a scummy one. And if it you found it scummy, or at least strange enough, to be worthy of an FOS, then why in the world would you not change your vote, when your vote for me was just a random placeholder?

Granted. And that's why I'm not voting him, but no matter how outlandish, a fake claim is not a good idea this early on.

Here is the post that Shadow was responding to.

Starting out with a claim like that if false is dangerous on the off chance that there really *is* a day cop out there.

Chances are amazingly good that that's not an issue.

I concur with this, but why in the world is this justification for not voting him?

PS- LIEK OMG CEPHRIR IS OBVTOWN. TEH DAHCOP SHUD NEVAH INVESTIGATIATE HIM. EVAH.

Panzer, I'm beginning to think you're actually an insane Day cop. Because you could never get a scum report on Cephrir. He's too townie.

I don't understand what makes cops always want to claim on day one.
Last game I was in, cop claimed day one for some reason. Mafia convinced the town to kill him day two before he could even post his "investigation". Turned out he really was cop. Oops.
Really, that was not a smart move. Mafia will be on that so fast. We need power roles. Please, no one else claim unless told to.

Considering that it's rather obvious that Panzer was joking about the claim, and the fact that the rest of this post is hardly relevant at all, this is just a perfect example of active lurking.

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

Why? It's not like anybody has presented a case on Zee that we're all blindly following, and there's no indication that a random lynch is going to occur. Besides, bandwagons are a great way to avoid the game from stalling, which is something that scum want from the onset.

It makes me uncomfortable because we're still random voting. I realize that we're going to end up bandwagonning someone, but there is usually some reason for it. I'm not happy about a flimsy bandwagon, but I'm downright leery of a bandwagon that consists entirely of random votes.

If you're leery of us still random voting, then present a case against someone. Provide a good reason to hop onto the already-building bandwagon on me. It feels like you're complaining and providing nothing in return. Oh, in addition, if you are as scared about a wagon that consists of random votes as you claim, why are you still random-voting me, and not unvoting until something of substance emerges?

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

:badposting:

Unvote, Vote Shadow Knight

FOS: nicoliosgotpolio

[Cephrir]

Theinin: are your comments about me in that post serious? If so, score one for atrociously executed buddying.

[Theinin]

Theinin: are your comments about me in that post serious? If so, score one for atrociously executed buddying.

Heh, sorry. Total joke there, hence the caps, chatspeak, and reference to the "day-cop". It was not a good idea to put that in the middle of my serious recap post, though, I admit.

[Cephrir]

Just checking.

[PJ.]

@Theinin, there was still awesome wifom in there but it was a joke.

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Also, If I were to stop, what should I do?

FoS:Geraintm

I would like to also poke Xofelf. What are your current thoughts of the game? What do you think of geraintm telling me to stop? Do you think I should stop? And Why?

[ZEEnon]

I already investigate you and zeenon Cephrir. You guys are scum like Kheelvaster. Unfortunately I got a scum read on Xofelf and Shadowknight, so maybe I'm paranoid day cop. But then I'd be just a crazy townie.

i know you are trying to be funny, but don't take it overboard. xD

vote ZEEnon

said i'd vote the 4th person who posted after me.

you counted the moderator ..
and i don't recall seeing you say that .

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

don't worry about it.
it's only four votes, i don't think
scum will reveal themselves
by placing the 5th, 6th, and/or 7th .

[nicoliosgotpolio]

unvote.

I'M done with my random.

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Because its getting kinda weird.
I don't see a problem with L-3. L-1 would be pushing it.
I don't know. ARE you up to something?
To me it seems like a distraction. It's pretty clear now that you aren't a cop. So, what are you doing? I believe he's trying to push a case off of himself with this. Thoughts?

Vote: Panzer

[geraintm]

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

But if you're going to investigate me, I should warn you that I'm totally a miller or something! [/obvscum]

hi obvscum

Unvote
Vote: Cephrir

Damn, you got me.

Anyway, I don't see any problem with having 4 votes on ZEEnon. If we never do anything interesting the game will never go anywhere.

I'll go with an

FoS: nicolio

because that post was really strange.

argh, stop it. just everyone stop it. page 3, and joke votes should have stopped by now.

theinin, why vote shadow, i don't get it?

panzer, post 68, i still don't get you

Zeenon - it was a random vote

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

don't worry about it.
it's only four votes, i don't think
scum will reveal themselves
by placing the 5th, 6th, and/or 7th .

no, i wasn't having a problem with his vote, just his general jokeiness, it is stopping the game getting going, he is a distraction, the others above who are just fooling around, just isn't helping.

[Shadow Knight]

ShadowKnight & Hoopla- Exactly why did you take a post that begins with the words "Alright, hmm, what will get the town talking" seriously?

I wasn't sure if I should take it seriously or not, actually. After all, I could say "wow, no one is talking. I own a Ferrari F-450." Now that is probably not true, but it *could* be true and it would indeed start conversation. For a mafia tie in, I can remember reading a game in which 3 people claimed to be cops on day 1. 2 were telling the truth. 1 was scum. It got conversation started, but it also got one of the claimed cops lynched that day. (I think Mastermind of Sin started that one.)

At the moment I'm not liking Panzer's erratic and outright crazy play, but I don't see it as particularly scummy. It feels like he's just making an attempt to start up conversation, and he has done so.

1. Are you seriously claiming day cop?

2. Why would you come forward so soon?

I don't really think you are a day cop (hence, not voting for khelvaster) but don't you think there are other methods for starting conversation? Starting out with a claim like that if false is dangerous on the off chance that there really *is* a day cop out there. Not sure he/she'd be dumb enough to counter claim you, but its a risk that doesn't need to be taken.

/rant

FOS Panzer

I already asked why you took Panzer's claim seriously, but why FOS him? Even if he was lying about the claim, it was rather clearly to stir up discussion, something a pro-town player is much more likely to do than a scummy one. And if it you found it scummy, or at least strange enough, to be worthy of an FOS, then why in the world would you not change your vote, when your vote for me was just a random placeholder?

I already said I wasn't sure if I should take it seriously or not. I wanted him to talk more so I could gauge whether he was joking or not. Because I wasn't sure, I simply FOS'd him. I was the only one voting you, so why bother unvoting until I actually want to vote someone for real? Why are you that worried about a single vote which I clearly stated was random? Why would I FOS *and* vote him? Perhaps I should have just used IGMEOY?

Granted. And that's why I'm not voting him, but no matter how outlandish, a fake claim is not a good idea this early on.

Here is the post that Shadow was responding to.

Starting out with a claim like that if false is dangerous on the off chance that there really *is* a day cop out there.

Chances are amazingly good that that's not an issue.

I concur with this, but why in the world is this justification for not voting him?

Wait, do you want me to vote him or not vote him? I feel like you're trying to play both ends against the middle here. I didn't vote him because what he did was odd, but not necessarily scummy. I FOS'd him because what he did was odd, but not necessarily town.

I can't say that I'm comfortable with 4 votes on one person on page 2. Anyone want to back off of him for now?

Why? It's not like anybody has presented a case on Zee that we're all blindly following, and there's no indication that a random lynch is going to occur. Besides, bandwagons are a great way to avoid the game from stalling, which is something that scum want from the onset.

Why am I not comfortable with someone being more than halfway to lynch without a case being made against them? Just personal feelings I guess. If someone gets that high in the vote count, I want to be able to see reasons for voting. Maybe its because a bandwagon is the opposite of random voting. (I.E. once a pattern emerges, its no longer random.) I keep feeling like you're stating the obvious (bandwagons keep the game from stalling). I never said I'm against bandwagons, I said I'm against random bandwagons. Please don't misrepresent what I'm saying in the future.

It makes me uncomfortable because we're still random voting. I realize that we're going to end up bandwagonning someone, but there is usually some reason for it. I'm not happy about a flimsy bandwagon, but I'm downright leery of a bandwagon that consists entirely of random votes.

If you're leery of us still random voting, then present a case against someone. Provide a good reason to hop onto the already-building bandwagon on me. It feels like you're complaining and providing nothing in return. Oh, in addition, if you are as scared about a wagon that consists of random votes as you claim, why are you still random-voting me, and not unvoting until something of substance emerges?

Again, please stop misrepresenting me. I *never* said I'm leery of random voting in general. I said I'm leery of a bandwagon based on nothing but random votes. In fact, I just got done telling Xofelf that we weren't out of the random voting stage, and that if she wanted to progress beyond it, she would have to post an actual case against someone. The amusing part is that in responding to your post, I've found the only scumtells to appear in the game thus far. For that, I'm gonna have to say

confirm vote Theinin

[Hoopla]

Why am I not comfortable with someone being more than halfway to lynch without a case being made against them? Just personal feelings I guess. If someone gets that high in the vote count, I want to be able to see reasons for voting. Maybe its because a bandwagon is the opposite of random voting. (I.E. once a pattern emerges, its no longer random.) I keep feeling like you're stating the obvious (bandwagons keep the game from stalling). I never said I'm against bandwagons, I said I'm against random bandwagons. Please don't misrepresent what I'm saying in the future.

I don't want to deviate too far into a theory debate about 'is there such a thing as random voting', but I think early bandwagons are healthy. After the first few pages the game can often fracture into different paths with a variety of cases emerging - when this happens it's rare you'll get everyone's opinion on everything presented. Bandwagons are often something that will attract the focus of the majority of the town, which serves for greater comparison.

As I mentioned before, once the game breaks away, to compare and determine suspicion, you often have to do it based on what X thinks of Y, compared to how Z defended N. When more variables come into play, it's far easier for scum to be evasive and focus on areas that hold weaker comparison purposes. The 'random' voting really holds a lot more information than some think - and bandwagons are an excellent source.

[PJ.]

unvote.

I'M done with my random.

Why should I stop?

Why shouldn't ZEEnon have 4 votes?

Why do I have to be up to something?

Because its getting kinda weird.
I don't see a problem with L-3. L-1 would be pushing it.
I don't know. ARE you up to something?
To me it seems like a distraction. It's pretty clear now that you aren't a cop. So, what are you doing? I believe he's trying to push a case off of himself with this. Thoughts?

Vote: Panzer

I was trying to get done with random by asking these questions to Geraintm(who ignored them). How is this is a distraction? I'm pretty confident that you're scum. First of all, your first post was seemed like you were just trying to be townie and ended up making a completely irrelevant post that reeked of this very thing. Now you've made another post, answering a question asked of geraintm and then replaying withquestions that are answered in an obvious fashion, as they are already in the thread. This seems like an obvious attempt at "trying" to be town, also with obvious buddying to geraintm.


Am I up to something? Yes. What am I doing/up to? Starting conversation so I can catch scum. What case am I trying to push off me? There was never as case on me.