Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Xayzeck]

I'm always skimming this, but I have a hard time reading this mainly because I lost touch after D1. I have yet to read this page in depth, I will do so now.

I could replace out so someone more enthusiastic can take over the slot and be of more help, but I don't like replacing out since it's a pain, and replacement would have to read a shitton and I'd rather not put someone through that.

I'll read them now.

[Xayzeck]

This interaction is probably the most important thing to considering in evaluating Xay given how little he has done today, so the fact that you totally ignored/missed it, similar to your point about Toasty, makes me think you have not read the game very carefully for one reason or another.

I'd say it's a lot more than I did yesterday.

And the day before that, probably.

[Xayzeck]

I honestly don't get why PV scumreads Ice

Nor do I get why this gameday has turned out to largly a Toasty vs Ice. Do you two insist on scumreading each other? Chances are you could both be town. I've got stronger feels over Icetown than Toastytown

While I'm not completely sure why PV has slipped under the radar

Or why I have been able to do so fairly well without receiving much flak. Partly because I got RB'd, maybe, but considering we don't know much about the scumteam, I'd say it's more useful to ignore the RB right now. Likely CTD and I aren't scum together though, doesn't make sense for scum to try and clear a buddy to me.

[Iecerint]

I suspect that exactly one of Toasty and PV is scum. I am trying to determine which.

It turned into Toasty v Iece because PV wasn't posting and Toasty is scumreading me.

[Iecerint]

Re: you, if you are scum that means 2 scum (since CTD cleared you if she is town, and if CTD is lone scum that still clears you), and 2 scum means an instant loss basically.

Like the scumteam could claim right now and we would still probably lose if there are two scum.

So I want to live in a fantasy land.

[Xayzeck]

I suspect that exactly one of Toasty and PV is scum. I am trying to determine which.

It turned into Toasty v Iece because PV wasn't posting and Toasty is scumreading me.

It would also have to include you having Toastyscum above PVscum. Is that the case? Or are you just putting aside your stronger scumread on PV since he's lurk?

[Xayzeck]

Re: you, if you are scum that means 2 scum (since CTD cleared you if she is town, and if CTD is lone scum that still clears you), and 2 scum means an instant loss basically.

Like the scumteam could claim right now and we would still probably lose if there are two scum.

So I want to live in a fantasy land.

I'm not sure I get that. We're still in lylo?

[Iecerint]

I was only engaging with Toasty because he was here.

My intent was really to try to figure out where he was coming from. There seems like a mix of stuff I can see coming from town and stuff that just looks twisted to get people to scumread me, so kinda mixed results I guess.

PV looks like he's not paying much attention while not being honest about it, while appealing to Toasty's perspective. Seems relatively sketchy at this point.

If either the lynch or NK interacts with the loverize mechanic, we lose instantly. (Come to think of it, I guess this applies even if there's only one scum, with the saving grace that we can also win before the loverize mechanic becomes a problem.)

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm here for a little bit. Can barely sit and am pumped full of painkillers, but I'll see what I can do.

[PeregrineV]

Or are you just putting aside your stronger scumread on PV since he's lurk?

Where the hell is this coming from?

PV looks like he's not paying much attention( ) while not being honest about it ( ) while appealing to Toasty's perspective( ). Seems relatively sketchy at this point.( )

I can guess now where this is going.

@RC-V/LA Oct 24-27

But deadline is in 4 hours, and with volleyball games, etc, I won't be back before then.

Pretty much an hour, then I'm probably voting Iecrint.

[CrashTextDummie]

A final comment on 1 scum vs. 2 scum left:
I find it incredibly frustrating that Toasty calls discussion of this issue a waste of time when his entire world view is fundamentally opposed to mine. He has been pushing me and Iece as a scumteam, which as I have been arguing could only be possible in an incredibly inbalanced set-up, but instead of arguing why he disagrees with me on this and having a productive and relevant discussion he completely shuts down on the matter and actually attacks me for trying to bring it to a head. To a degree I can understand a knee-jerk kind of "I don't have to argue with people I think are scum" stance, and I don't find his indignance particularly scummy, but yeah, really frustrating.

I'm equally frustrated in PV, for bringing up the exact argument I said did not apply. If there was more time left I'd ask him to find a 12 or even 13-player game with 3 scum where town did not have more power than scum and where town was additionally disadvantaged by the mechanics of the set-up. I am willing to bet that no such game exists, at least none where town didn't subsequently scream bloody murder at the mod.

I think it's at best pointless and at worst hurtful to ones ability to read the game if you look for connections that don't exist. I think Toasty's approach in particular could be scum motivated because it's easy to transition from "CTD and Iece are scum!" to "woops, only one of them was scum then" after one of his suspects is lynched.

I have to say though that I'm completely bewildered by PV insisting there are two scum left, yet town reading everyone but Iece. Why aren't you looking for scum pairs, PV? I'm pretty sure you did in the mason game that's been referenced a bunch of times. Hope you have time to address this.

[CrashTextDummie]

There's one thing Toasty said that's very true and that I hadn't considered: readswise, he would have had a much easier time winning as scum with Dry-fit alive than Dry-fit dead.

[CrashTextDummie]

Of note, I couldn't use the Hide during N1. I learned that I got it N1, but couldn't use it til N2.

I can confirm that this is how horoscopes work. I got the RB N2, could use it N3.

[PeregrineV]

I have to say though that I'm completely bewildered by PV insisting there are two scum left, yet town reading everyone but Iece. Why aren't you looking for scum pairs, PV? I'm pretty sure you did in the mason game that's been referenced a bunch of times. Hope you have time to address this.

Mostly because of how disastrously it went last time. It pretty much tanked, and we lost.

I always figure it like a logic puzzle, that if 5 players each gave their 2 scumreads, we could use logic to eliminate certain pairs, leaving the most likely group. I even tried this assuming a propensity for scum to not bus (to avoid another lylo) and for town to be wrong (on at least one of their choices). But, scum does bus, and I think the 3(?) times before last I tried it either went no where or I was wrong.

Now, I try to rely less on ovethinking and hope if I can get one, I'll either worry about it tomorrow or I won't.

[CrashTextDummie]

Did it tank because of scumpair analysis? The way I remember it, we lost because we couldn't get over our Thor suspicion.

[CrashTextDummie]

If either the lynch or NK interacts with the loverize mechanic, we lose instantly. (Come to think of it, I guess this applies even if there's only one scum, with the saving grace that we can also win before the loverize mechanic becomes a problem.)

Except, of course, if the scum drew the ability, in which case our chances of winning would improve significantly.

Odd miscalculation on your part. There are two ways you could know whether the secret admirer is scum and maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out, but I don't have the time or wherewithal currently to figure it out.

[RedCoyote]

Aries' Daily Horoscope:

This is a terrific day for you, Aries, and you will glow brightly from head to toe as you radiate your true inner self to the world. You will find profound joy in the simplest, most ordinary circumstances. If you run out of things to say, feel free to whistle a tune. This isn't likely to happen today, since you will overflow with things to talk about.

Aquarius' Daily Horoscope:

The day's energy is apt to be lively, making it much easier to get the things done that you need to do, Aquarius. You will find people are more than eager to help you. The trick is to integrate your leadership abilities with the knowledge available from other people. You will create a winning combination of power and strength to put to use in just about any realm of your life.

Sagittarius' Daily Horoscope:

This is a tremendously expansive time for you, Sagittarius, and there is very little that will stop your momentum once you get going. Your eyes are alive with a spark that says that you're ready to take on the world. Believe this about yourself and others will believe in you. There is a great deal of luck on your side today, so take a gamble in a certain part of your life.

Scorpio's Daily Horoscope:

Put on some lively music you can dance to and really kick up your heels, Scorpio. It's time to put away the sour mood and have fun with a large group of people. You will find that the more you engage in intellectual discussions, the more you will get warmed up to the idea that life should be fun, not the pain and stress you sometimes make it out to be.

Virgo's Daily Horoscope:

You may get frustrated when you find that people aren't as sensitive to a situation as you want them to be, Virgo. While you're looking to make a strong connection with someone, almost wanting to take possession of his or her feelings, that person, in turn, is trying to pull back. People are apt to gravitate toward rational facts rather than intense, smothering emotions.

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Vote Count 4 - 5

• Not Voting (5) ( PeregrineV - Xayzeck - ToastyToast - CrashTextDummie - Iecerint)

With five alive, it takes three to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-10-23 19:00:00)

[CrashTextDummie]

I should start thinking about who to lynch since I really should go lie down.

I don't really think Toasty is a good lynch anymore, in light of his persuasive nightkill argument. I don't have strong feelings in PV vs. Iece and I don't have the time to develop any. Mostly I regret not being able to get to this sooner.

Strategically, I think Iece is probably a better lynch than PV for a number of reasons, so I think that's where I want to go.

[PeregrineV]

Did it tank because of scumpair analysis? The way I remember it, we lost because we couldn't get over our Thor suspicion.

I was trying to tie 2 together. Bulba kept nulling smarg no matter what, so I thought they were a pair. Thor wouldn't give a straight answer on TSO, so I thought they were a pair. Bulba was scumreading TSO, but lightly, so we missed the fact he never pushed it. And this was all just based on knowing ourselves as town. It gets worse when you don't have the one confirmed.

[PeregrineV]

And I have to leave.

Vote: Iecrint

[CrashTextDummie]

So do I.

Vote: Iecerint

[Xayzeck]

Not hammering, reading up

[ToastyToast]

Alright I need to catch up to make sure those two aren't trying to use my read to their advantage.

[Xayzeck]

Oh wait deadline hit fuck

[ToastyToast]

What the hell