Mini 1781: Plotinus Mafia: Game Over

[Ircher]

Ircher opposing this wagon makes me feel better

It just, makes me more confident it's a scum lynch

Want to go more into why because Ircher is against it, it makes you more confortable?

Who are you scum reading?
me?
Ircher?
Smudger?

You and smudger, Ircher is my biggest townread

With the number of times you say this, certainly you could elaborate some?

[Ircher]

I'm townreading the slot mainly based on davsto, he went about his early day proposal in a town way, there was fishing for town cred. I've seen Davsto as scum, and that wasn't it. An ircher's rebuttal was literally just "no null" like half a dozen times. There's nothing to argue against.

Can you rewrite this so what you said is clearer?

[Ircher]

I had the third most posts prior to my V/LA, didn't you yourself say I was one of the active players like 2 days ago?

But, how much content and or scumhunting went into those posts? I won't deny that you have done more scumhunting then some other people, but still, the amount of effort you are putting in still seems VERY low.

[Ircher]

Sorry, got the flu and starting a new job today, nothing has happened to really change my scumreads on FA AND Smudger slot.

Would prefer a xkfyu lynch if we're hunting off the AD wagon, can't bring myself to join a wagon driven by Fire and smudger slot

Your scum read on smudger was based on a random sentence. Chamber replaced, and you say your scum read remains. Putting aside that the entire scum read on Smudger carries zero weight, you imply your scum read has carried over to Chamber. Why?

1. Is there a reason it wouldn't?

Any reason you'd prefer an Xkfyu lynch?

2. You literally just quoted the post where I explained why

1. Well, your read started off as RVS. Then, it seemed to be based on inactivity. Now it seems to be based on ??? reasons that you have faiked to share. So, yes, there is: as the replacement has quite a few more posts than Smudger did, you should stop brushing them off as "oh, that's just scum talking" and actually consider their value and determine whether or not they still read as scum-motivated to you.

2. I would like an elaboration. Your reason is basically "Well, Fire and Smudger's slots are being lynched, so I'll find the next easiest target to try to 'compromise' with town on." Why do you scumread X more than some of the other players? I harp on activity a lot, but the reality is that activity is

generally

not alignment indicative. Yet, it seems to me that most of your scumreads stem from such logic and you just tunnel them without ever reconsidering.

[Ircher]

meh, ircher is maybe town for the fervor and rigorous nature of last post.

p-edit: actually yeah ircher can be in the townpile.

also if im being frustrating, its probably for a reason.

Hmmm.... What changed your mind from "Maybe town" to "Is Town" so quickly? You already acknowledged my post in here, so a very weird change it seems.

[Ircher]

Most (3 out of 4) of Smudgers votes accumulated before he even made his first post, so why are you connecting his entrance with his wagon?

do you disagree that smudger's wagon still being a thing is related to his entrance?
y/n?
if y, why ask such a pointless question.
if n, why are you being wrong at me?

Also, why do you believe that he won't react until his wagon's momentum slows down?

lack of reaction to the rest of the wagon.

You just gonna scum read me and ignore my questions?

yes and maybe.

And why is M&B "untouchable" today?

because.

This is a town-motivated post. There is focused questioning, yet at the same time, the focus isn't too narrow.

[Ircher]

so heres fire assassin in a nutshell and why you should vote for him.
i) opening vote is on me.
starts as RVS.
he then tries to weirdly justify it with easy reasoning.
not a big deal, but it gave me gutfeels that he felt nervous about sitting on an unexplained vote, which feels scummy in my heart.

I think I covered tpwhy this was bad before, but as it is

one of the only

substandial reasons behind votes given this entire game, that's a plus for Gork.

1. So, to begin with: (I'll fact-check myself later on this, but) how is RVSish reasoning for an RVSish vote scummy? Reasons given during RVS tend to be silly, joking, or illogical and should be taken lightly. As you did not care to quote what reasoning Fire gave for his vote, I can only assume that the reason was RVSish in nature.

ii) transition onto nahdia/beeboy hydra is wonky and easy. he abandons the vote on me for what amounts to "these posts look weird" which is meh. what bothers me is that it feels like hes registered that im not an easy push at this point. specifics here being:

2. Maybe, but I think Fire probably just figured that your posts weren't really alignment-indicative and were just a playstyle issue of yours. This point is overall null.

I find this strange you have so many reads this early into the game.
I guess they are mostly 'leans' so, not really strong so its w/e.

this is his follow-up to me ignoring his questions.

I agree with Fire here, your # of reads and your strength in your reads read as strange. Though, I wouldn't push it as scummy.

where other people are prickled by me doing this, he backs off, hedges and waffles. it just doesnt seem like a real genuine "im trying to figure out who scum is"-reaction and instead just kind of looks to me like "how do i push someone and not get flack for it here/how do i explain what ive done so far in a way that wont get me in trouble?"

I look into it!

You realize your hostility isn't going to help anyone read you right? Its all AtE, which can be either alignment. I am willing to have a conversation with you, but if all your going to do is throw emotional posts like this, we can't have a discussion and I will have to ignore you.

this does not look like a genuine reaction to someone hes voting/calling scummy.

Why not? It actually reads as town, as scum usually do not wish to engage their attackers. Wanting to engage and work stuff out with you is imo 99% of the time pro-town. Now, scum can certainly fake this and may even try to mislead you, but we gotta have some basis for townreads, so I'd still read this point as suggesting town Fire rather than scum Fire.

Why does this sound like you are lining up both associations and lynches before we even have a single flip. This is disgusting on so many levels, its more likely to come from bad town than scum though.

the entire mindset of this post just screams to me of scum not knowing how to deal with someone hardpushing them for reasons that they dont understand.

Here's the main problem I have with your case: yes, you are analyzing motive rather than just looking to see if a post looks scummy, but you are failing to look at things from both perspectives. Ask yourself three questions: 1) What's the underlying motive (from my stance) 2) Why would scum make this post? 3) Why would town make this post? Afterwards, then decide if the point is truly indicative of alignment or not.

im struggling a little trying to articulate exactly why this post is bothering me so much. i think its mostly that i cant see the town incentive in simultaneously hedging on calling me scummy/calling me bad town to discredit me without committing to pushing me. im kind of hoping if i draw attention to it, someone smarter than me will look at it and see what im seeing and put it into real words.

Calling you scummy yet not trying to lynch you is scummy. (But scummy !== scum). The latter -- bad town -- is policy-lynch territory. Not aggressively pushing a lynch on someone who you wish gone only for policy reasons (like playstyle) is fair, and both town and scum would have reasons to do so.

part of what also bugs me about this, is that he says "time to find scum!", calls me bad town, and then goes on to basically ask me a bunch of questions. does not feel like genuine scumhunting methinks.

there you go. having all of that time to make up these reasons really helped. thanks for letting me stall ircher.

[Ircher]

is that self-assured bad-old-town or scum though not-maf? because the vitriol reads more like wrong than intentional to me.
also, in other news, aristo is slightly leaning town.
itd be awesome if this turned into a POE game.

Elaborate please.

[Ether]

Day 1, Votecount 35

---

5 Minsc and Boo (Fire Assassin, Iecerint, Roshar, Ircher, Ranger)
2 Fire Assassin (Aristophanes, Not_Mafia)
2 RadiantCowbells (Minsc and Boo, Xkfyu)
1 Ircher (Maruchan)
1 Xkfyu (androgybee)

2 Unvote (Gorkington, RadiantCowbells)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2016-04-20 09:00:00), or on Wednesday, April 20th at 9:00 am EDT.

---

Plotinus was stolen in infancy by mischievous faeries and raised as one of their own. They can never be targeted by any player who does not know their true name, and neither can their cats.

[Ircher]

like, here:
i) early townread was a gutread for effort. it was an intentionally naive read.
ii) scumread was because im eager to find scummate connections and you pushing me/fire but concluding on me being worth voting over him just sat weirdly to me.
iii) townread is because way you pushed me just gives vibes of a certain archetype of townplayer that im used to playing with.

pick at it if youd like.
id strongly prefer if you picked at the case on fire instead.

Context please?

[Ircher]

i dont really know how to phrase it in a way that wouldnt be frustrating if i was wrong.
i need to sit down and quantify my thoughts because right now its all just vague outlines.

p-edit: jfc q.q
i was talking to fire with that second part.

This ^ is the thing about me.

Lots of time, stuff doesn't make sense until I actually convince myself to actually look through it. I read every post as soon as possible, generally, but I also generally tend not to realky understand what's going on until I anakyze it later... except anything directed at me; I can generally understand those pretty well.

[Ircher]

davsto would then also have to explain lategame why hes still alive in spite of being a claimed PR.
the logic goes both ways.

Except I never claimed pr.

[Ircher]

i can pick at your ircher case tonight if youd like. there are a few reasons that i like for why that slot is likely town.

I forget. Did you ever di this? If you haven't, I'd be interested in knowing these reasons.

[Ircher]

minsc.
androgy.
you.
maybe fire.

This is a weird, unexpected change in reads. Why did your scumreads change? What was scummy about Chamber? Minsc? Andro? Dan?

[Ircher]

radiant is scummy because i disagree with his reads.

Radiant is generally on target with his reads. Ofc, that also makes him dangerous as scum.

[Ircher]

im gonna play a game where im just a dick instead of playing this game.
"tierlist:
ircher : same as RC
notmafia : same as RC
=========
beeboy/nahdia
smudger
=========
titus/radja [also untouchable today]
actiondan
iece
aristophanes : called townlean later.
roshar
=========
maruchan
=========
xkfyu : same as RC
=========
fire assassin"

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

This differs quite some from your previous reads you implied. What changed?

[Ircher]

also if ircher could give some coherent straightforward thoughts on the game as it stands and not just "i am sheeping x-person" i would love them dearly because i havent been able to follow anything theyve been doing for a while and its confusing me in spite of things that made me think theyre town.

That is btw a misrep of my contributions, as I explained why I was sheeping RC and have provided coherent thoughts (maybe not straightforward) in the past.

[Ircher]

No, I'm not. I don't do drugs.

Then read your own ISO and come back to me.

I'll do just that!

[Ircher]

Then dont post a case that is 100% null indicative.

has it ever occurred to you that maybe youre just really bad?

Dude, you don't need to be rude to players. Just say they should rethink their reads while being subtle about their badness.

..... 41st post and only what? 5 of them had content in them? Uggh, I hate people who are always being sarcastic and messing around all day as they are almost as hard to read as lurkers.

[Ircher]

Why don't people join me on this:
VOTE: Minsc and Boo

I need assistance!

As always, no reasons given about why.....

[Ircher]

Gorkington still has failed to respond to any question or request posed to him regarding his reads or changes of his reads, and just continues attempting to make snide humor comments, that fail to provide humor.

oooo did you want me to double down on my cheeky bullshit? because you ignoring me actually giving content in the form of a case to continue this hilarious tirade against me having fun in this game is just amazing and you really are just incentivizing me at this point.

At the point in my read through I made that comment your case had not yet been made, and you still have avoided even acknowledging me or XK asking you about your reads on us. You've continued to blatantly ignore that.

like seriously, im driving the biggest wagon in the game right now with the best-made case. tomorrow i'll pick at fire's response to it. and then i'll probably drive the game some more. does it bother you that youre impressively uninfluential when youre trying so hard while a buffoon who doesnt use proper grammar and posts sarcastically 90% of the time is?

That case was actually rather awful. I literally thought it would be decent and didnt bother to check the evidence.

Literally how is this town play.

"Oh I was too lazy to read the first case of the game ,but since it was the first case of the game, hey, I'll hop on it. BANDWAGGON AHOY".

THAT IS NOT TOWN PLAY.

I am sorry to tell you this, but people sheep wagons for awful reasoning all the time, and its often town. Scum sometimes do it, but usually they are worried about looking bad.

Is it pro town behavior to ignore the actual case? No
Is it anti town? Hell yes.

Is he scum? Id say I think he is trying to solve the game so that reads as town.

Correct way to analyze a post imo.

[Ircher]

Can we wagon Minsc and Boo right now? I feel very lackluster by their participation in the game which has me nervous. Them and Maruchan should be the lynch options today I feel. Most everyone else I can feel some townie posts exist for.

Is there another reason besides just general inactivity?

[Ircher]

Can we like....not use meta as basis of our reads?

Absolutely not. Absolutely no way you'd read me correctly if it weren't for meta.

[Ircher]

if you think this is teammafia ad why is this your first mention of it.

p-edit: fa confirmed alt.
teehee.

I said I was an alt.....

No you didn't. You said that you might be an alt. Might !== Is.

[Ircher]

Sheeping != Scum. Ask RC, he'll attest to that.

I havent seen scum despite doing quite some isos

. Why are you refusing to provide reasons?

I am not saying you are scum, I said you have a scummy post. Theres a difference. That is why I can still call you town at the end without it being a contradiction.

1.

So you assume that players who ISO are town?

2. As for my lack of reasons, I don't feel is necessary at this time. I have given a few for a few reads, their is no reason to do wall posts unless you really want to make a point, but many times that point is lost in it anyways. Short to the point is much better.

Hopefully those colors aren't annoying either.

1. Not at all. Just, none of the ISOs read as scum.
2. I'm sorry, but you have to provide them eventually.... unless you're RC