I explained that it was more an "IGMEOY" on Goat rather than a full-on accusation. Like I mentioned before, I thought that with a thread only open for one real life day and one that was only on page 2 it was a bit premature for Goat to be definitively calling anyone scum. If it was something that continued regardless of whether or not pops' responses were good, I might have become suspicious of it but imo, that's not what happened, so I didn't bother going after Goat about it. And I don't see how my further explanation in #84 looks like I'm trying to have it both ways - I pretty clearly stated that I thought Goat's interrogation looked genuine, which means I was leaning towards thinking Goat was town.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #39 - super waffling with regards to Goat. "I don't like it but I don't think it's malicious", what exactly is the purpose of pointing that out? And the further explanation in #84 doesn't make it any better, it really looks like a case of trying to have it both ways. He's making very sure that he doesn't actually accuse Goat of anything, but he's laying the groundwork to accuse him further down the line if it becomes convenient.
How would the situation I mentioned not benefit scum?Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #225 - His accusing Jahudo of lying here really doesn't track right - it's clearly not a lie that would benefit scum in any way, and I think a town Incog who was actually trying to figure out Jahudo's alignment, and not just trying to find things he could use against him, would realise that.
In Jahudo's post where he suddenly backed off of McGriddle, he appeared to have
just realized
what game it was all along that McG was referring to. His "realization" just didn't seem genuine to me given the length of time that it happened between my post where I asked for McGriddle to provide a link to the game and the post where Jahudo came to this "realization". Basically, if Jahudo's scum, he might have known about the game all along but might have deliberately chosen not to reference it in the hopes that nobody would look back to it for cross-reference. When I asked McG for the game though, obviously that was out of the picture. I mean, sure, there's the possibility that Jahudo just found the game completely independently of my question but I wasn't sure if it was likely at that time given the time-stamps of the posts.I don't completely remember why I wrote that, but I think I just didn't feel as confident in my SerialClergyman town read as I did with some of my other reads, so I wrote that so that people were aware that I probably wouldn't be sticking my neck out too far to be defending that read. I didn't agree with the case that pops made against SC at the time, and I did find certain things about SC that struck me as town-ish but at the same time I still saw certain things that seemed off, so I wasn't as certain about SC being town at that time as I was with say Goatrevolt or even Elmo. Basically, I hadn't seen enough stuff from SC that I didn't like that would make me think he was very likely scum and therefore a good D1 lynch.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #268 - The last sentence in this post, why is it there? Surely we all know that it goes without saying that D1 reads are not set in stone, so why is Incog being so careful to point this out?
That wasn't my complete case on Jahudo, but I don't see how you're not able to read that as more than just a Jahudo lurker case. Even though my word choice probably wasn't the best, it should be pretty clear as to what I was getting at there when I explained it further - I got the feeling that Jahudo was just trying to look busy by asking questions for the sake of asking them. It didn't look like he was doing anything with the answers to those questions at that time, which is something that I would expect more from scum than town.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #269 - Incog's super case on Jahudo. "He's a bit lurky and backgroundy", that's it. Oh, and "I accused him of lying earlier, he explained how it obviously wasn't lying, but I'm going to keep on using it as a point against him anyway". This is the case that it was majorly suspicious of Jahudo not to prostrate himself in front of and declare himself scum. This is the case that I did not understand when I said that lurking was a major component of it.
And I find it strange that you're using this as a point against me when back when you claimed Jahudo was your mason buddy, you yourself said that if you weren't masons with him, you'd probably think he was scum too. That implies to me that you understood what I and others were getting at when we mentioned that we were suspicious of him.
This seems more like a semantics point but either way, I've just been attacked in the past for not making my thoughts clear enough, so in order to avoid that, I've tried to be more meticulous with how I do things in order to avoid those kinds of attacks. Considering the fact that you're using this against me now though, it's pretty clear that I may as well just get used to it.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #319 - Wording here: "It doesn't seem likely that a wagon will switch to Jahudo before deadline, and I've mentioned that I agree with the wagon on NabNab anyway." Not "I agree with the wagon", but "I've mentionedthat I agree". Again, showing that he's overly concerned about appearing consistent in a way that a town player wouldn't be.
Not sure if this even needs responding to but in every single one of the last games I've been in with Patrick where we've both been town, he's always managed to die N1 no matter what. I found it pretty amusing that the same thing happened here.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #395 - No matter how well they know that commenting on the NK in this way is a blatant scum tell, time and time again, scum still just can't help themselves.
Because it looks like a set-up for a mislynch? Because the fact that NabNab flipped town might make a person reconsider their thought process? Because you just plopped your vote on pops and decided to take the rest of Day 2 off without responding to anything else that happened in-thread, which would personally make me reconsider my vote if I was using your case as a basis for my vote? Take your pick.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #449 - What the hell is wrong with SC using a case made on D1 as a major reason for voting pops on D2? Why would that case suddenly become invalid overnight?
I wasn't implying anything; I just wasn't going to definitely say that you were 100% positively doing something like intimidating people off of a wagon since I don't have direct access to your mind, right? I was just giving my read of the situation and since you're now claiming that that's exactly what you were doing, I guess my read of the situation was correct, yes?Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #495 - "it almost looks like he's just trying to intimidate people off of joining the Jah-wagon." - it doesn'talmost look likeanything; I was very blatantly trying to intimidate people off of joining the Jahudo wagon. He is implying that I was subtly manipulating people away from Jahudo when I was in fact outright telling them "don't vote Jahudo". This is a complete warping of reality with the intention of painting me as some kind of shady criminal mastermind.
If you're talking about the last line about never playing with a Jahudo-town to compare to, then yeah, I guess I can see how you interpret that post in that way but either way it should be pretty clear there that I was using my past experience with Jahudo to further explain why I had bad feelings about him. So it's definitely still valid.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #530 - Much like the "Jahudo lied about not knowing what game McGriddle was talking about" bit, we again have Incog saying "here is a point against Jahudo, it is not a valid point, but I'm going to use it anyway".
Actually, that's not the only reason you were at the top of my scum list in the first place, so I don't see why you're saying it was. I mentioned that I didn't like the way you just plopped your vote on popsofctown and how you didn't bother following that vote up. I mentioned how my meta of you suggested that you were usually much more involved as town than you were here. Those are at least two other points for why you were at the top of my scumlist. The defense of Jahudo was just icing on the cake.Post 874, iamausername wrote:Post #726 - "It seems all too convenient to me that the two people who were scummiest to me decide to confirm each other as this pro-town mason team." This is some bullshit right here. If we were both at the top of Incog's scumlist completely independently, this would make sense, but the only reason I was there in the first place is because I defended the shit out of Jahudo for bad reasons. It's not "convenient", so much as it is "a logical explanation for the play that made these two the scummiest in the first place".
Let's think about this, shall we? All through Day 1, you didn't mention a thing about Jahudo, and he didn't mention a thing about you. Through the first part of Day 2, again, you didn't mention anything about Jahudo, and he didn't mention a thing about you. Near mid-Day you both FINALLY mention something about each other, which just so happened to be solid town reads of one another. Prior to all of that, the only person who claimed to be having a solid town read of you from pretty much the beginning of the game was SC. So why would it be unreasonable for me to think along the lines I did?Post 874, iamausername wrote:In addition to attacking me primarily for defending the shit out of Jahudo, Incog has also repeatedly brought up the fact that Jahudo claimed to have "a solid town read" on me as a point against him, because he could not see a reason for that read. I cannot see how Incog can honestly have considered the possibility that I was a mason with SC, but be taken completely by surprise by my actual partner. That does not stack up in the slightest. This is all done in service of pushing the "convenient" line to throw doubt on our claim, and it isbull.
[/quote]This point I will concede because I probably should have followed up on his response but even after the response, I still felt like he was the most likely to be scum out of all the leading wagons that were around when the deadline was coming up. So I didn't see any reason to change my vote. The only other lynches I would have supported were yours or Jahudo's but that surge didn't come until SC's wagon reached L-1 and since I felt like SC was a very likely candidate for scum if either you or Jahudo were scum, I was completely fine with his lynch.
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