Mini 489: Short and Sweet Mafia - Game Over

[Mastermind of Sin]

I am still highly unconvinced of Sarc scum or CTD town.

ABR indeed needs independent thinking.

---

MoS's post deserved a reply:

I think I agree with Vitr and Coron that not all posts are worth quoting, but few should be ignored all together.

What types of posts do you believe should be ignored altogether?

I haven't seen any in this game, nor can I think of any -- Coron and VitaminR seemed to imply that some posts were like this, no?

But you agreed with them.

I said few should be ignored all together. That doesn't mean that I've seen any that should be ignored all together. I

didn't

agree with them.

Sorry, I read that as "a few", not "few". Big difference.

A good part of me really thinks it is faked.

Make of it what you will. All this proves is that you don't know how I operate.

Is this true, anyone, from your experience with MoS? He is asking us to positively metagame him (as I am asking everyone to positively metagame me ) -- I would love knowing if there is substance behind this.

Asking us to not lynch you because you always get mislynched is *not* a logical metagame.

Yes it is. I always get mislynched, and have been lynched only once as scum. Lynching me almost never results in a pro-town achievement.

Not only that, I am pretty good at finding scum, if terrible at convincing others. So not only do you lose a pro-town player, you lose a scum hunter as well.

Lynching me = anti-town.

Wrong. Dead wrong. There is no statistical probability that makes you more likely to be town than anyone else in the game. Just because you get mislynched as town in other games does not make you more likely to be town in this one. You *should* get lynched more as town than as scum, if you're getting lynched, because the statistics are in favor of all of us being town instead of scum. You are not special, you do not get a coupon that lets you have better odds at being town than the rest of us. Your argument is appealing to emotion, crap logic, and complete bullshit.

I very much like Rishi's last post and this observation:

I don't like how Guardian lists his top suspects as CTD and Xdammo, but is keeping his vote on Sarcastro. Playing both sides of the fence?

It seems horribly inconsistent from Guardian's side.

I'm pretty pleased with my Guardian vote, although I could go for a Sarc lynch as well.

I found Rishi a bit off for this, but I was happy I didn't point it out... since VitaminR agreed with it.

I am voting for CTD, right now, not Sarcastro.

VitaminR agreeing with a completely factually incorrect reason to find me scummy screams of opportunism to me. I think he is buddying to Rishi.


Of Pooky's list, I think that I and Coron are town, and Pooky is scum with VitaminR. No, I don't intend to justify why Pooky is scum, but I equally don't intend to pursue him instead of VitaminR today, I think.


VitaminR's actions in agreeing with Rishi's completely incorrect statement is highly suspicous to me.

unvote: CTD vote: VitaminR

---

For my reference:

Xdaamno - scummy??
Mastermind of Sin - scummy?
CrashTextDummie - scummy?
Rishi - town?
PookyTheMagicalBear - scum?
VitaminR - scum
Coron - town
Sarcastro - town
Guardian - town
Albert B. Rampage -
trumpezia - town??

Why is ABR on your category, but I'm "scummy"? He's as guilty of lacking content and making short posts, meaningless posts as I am, if not more. At least most of my posts say something useful.

Unvote, vote: Sarc

I have no reason to believe he is town, and I am not going to contribute to the stalling that people are causing under the pretense of waiting for enough posts to pass so that they are not "spamming". That's a bullshit excuse that the mafia have used to consume nearly 1/3 of our game time.

Holy Crap, It's Page 4 Vote Count

Sarcastro (5): CTD, Albert, VitaminR, Rishi, MoS
Albert (2): Pooky, Coron
CTD (1): Sarcastro
trumpezia (1): Xdaamno
VitaminR: (1) Guardian

Not voting: (1) trumpezia

11 living, 6 to lynch

[Guardian]

MoS:

1) OK, agreed.
2) . I guess so. The thing I guess I would stress with me is that I can be really scummy as town (apparently). I just got lynched for breadcrumbing and fake claiming a doc as town >.>
Most games I am town in I get mislynched, and while I'd love to put my finger on why and fix that, in this specific game I thought I'd let you all know the me-history and ask not to be lynched as I am town in this game . So, a metagaming that does make sense is to look at just how "scummy" I can look as town, and question whether "apparent" scum tells from me really are indicative of me being anti-town.
3) You should know better than ABR.
4)

I am not going to contribute to the stalling that people are causing under the pretense of waiting for enough posts to pass so that they are not "spamming". That's a bullshit excuse that the mafia have used to consume nearly 1/3 of our game time.

I, largely, was a proponent of this, as was Coron. I don't think he is scum, and neither am I, and I heartily disagree if you are asserting that scum came up with the idea that spamming is bad. The plan to not "spam" works if

everyone

posts frequently -- I guess in a non-ideal world, it is flawed, in that people will use it as an excuse to lurk.

I'd rather we looked closely at those who used the plan to not contribute much up to this point -- they are the ones who abused it and are suspicious.

I think the plan in theory was good, but I do think that at this point it should be abandoned -- at least until we get to day 2. I genuinely thought wasting posts was scummy -- but it is only scummy up to the point where we are wasting posts while we still have oodles of time left. If we have a surplus at day 3/4, and I'm around, I'd be happy with letting "spamming" go -- but from the outset of the game it made sense to discourage it and find it suspicious.

Everyone -- what do you think of how VitaminR piggybacked Rishi's categorically incorrect argument? Isn't he wagon-worthy?

Also, Sarcastro is at -1, and I really am not feeling it at this point, his arguments have seemed legit and I do not support his lynch.

[VitaminR]

I very much like Rishi's last post and this observation:

I don't like how Guardian lists his top suspects as CTD and Xdammo, but is keeping his vote on Sarcastro. Playing both sides of the fence?

It seems horribly inconsistent from Guardian's side.

I'm pretty pleased with my Guardian vote, although I could go for a Sarc lynch as well.

I found Rishi a bit off for this, but I was happy I didn't point it out... since VitaminR agreed with it.

I am voting for CTD, right now, not Sarcastro.

D'oh. Stupid mistake. I read back to see whether Rishi was right and did indeed see you say your top suspect was CTD and not Xdaamno. For some reason, it didn't click with me that you weren't voting Sarc (which doesn't really make any sense from your behaviour in the discussion anyway).

VitaminR agreeing with a completely factually incorrect reason to find me scummy screams of opportunism to me. I think he is buddying to Rishi.

Hmm? I'm having trouble understanding this. Do you think I was trying to make others believe you were voting Sarcastro? That makes very little sense.

I think the plan in theory was good, but I do think that at this point it should be abandoned -- at least until we get to day 2. I genuinely thought wasting posts was scummy -- but it is only scummy up to the point where we are wasting posts while we still have oodles of time left. If we have a surplus at day 3/4, and I'm around, I'd be happy with letting "spamming" go -- but from the outset of the game it made sense to discourage it and find it suspicious.

I largely agree with this, in that we should keep it in mind, but I do think we can let it go a little bit now.

[Rishi]

Just as a clarification, I don't understand why wasting posts is "scummy." If we go over the limit, everyone in the game loses, including the Mafia. Could someone explain this reasoning to me?

[Guardian]

posts are a town resource, sure everyone loses when they are gone, but only the town hurts when they start getting rationed.

That is why it is scummy to spam, Rishi.

---

VitaminR -- I find you scummy for

using a factually incorrect case to support a bandwagon.

---

Mod: please prod every living player in the game. Failing that, prod everyone but VitaminR, Rishi, me, and MoS.

Done.

[Sarcastro]

Hey everyone. I've been completely neglecting all of my games, and I've (probably temporarily) lost interest in playing mafia, so I've asked to be replaced. I notice that I'm at lynch-1, which is rather unfortunate, because CTD's case was completely nonsensical and incredibly scummy. I'm quite honestly surprised that he isn't the one being wagonned, but I suppose that's what happens when one of the players disappears. I haven't actually read anything in this game that came after my last post, so I don't know if I'm mostly being run up for lurking or what, but if so, I'd urge you all to check my recent posts - I haven't posted in any of my mafia games recently, just stuff in Mish Mash. Given the nature of this particular game, of course, and the fact that lynching me would save Ibby having to find a replacement, I realise that it's a likely outcome. If you do, however, I very strongly urge you to lynch CTD tomorrow. I am more sure that he's scum than I have ever been about anyone before based on anything less than complete proof.

[Xdaamno]

Responding to prod etc. Will be more active from now on.

Guardian's most recent posts are pretty good, IMO, and well-thought out.

I have no reason to believe he is town, and I am not going to contribute to the stalling that people are causing under the pretense of waiting for enough posts to pass so that they are not "spamming". That's a bullshit excuse that the mafia have used to consume nearly 1/3 of our game time.

Also, I agree with this. As hypocritical as it may seem, I'll be posting a lot more from now on and I feel we should start stamping down on lurking from this point, because if we don't, we're almost certainly dead.

Rishi's posts are also giving me good vibes... hm... I guess I have to find someone to suspect sometime soon, right?

Reading back, I'm thinking a possible Coron/trumpezia. Course, I have nothing to back this up, so it's just gut and almost speculation, but IGMEOY.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

After a detailed reread of the CTD-Sarcastro exchange and the reasoning provided from all players piling on, we are displeased to announce that we will now have to

revise

our

Fearless Forecast™

of the scum to VitaminR, Mastermind of Sin, Trumpeiza.

We currently believe the CTD-Sarcastro exchange to be one between two townies locking horns like mountain goats and must slide them lower on the scale.

Due to the fact that we have to get something going, we shall

unvote

vote VitaminR

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[Rishi]

I think we should probably get a claim from Sarcastro or Sarcastro's replacement.

[VitaminR]

VitaminR -- I find you scummy for

using a factually incorrect case to support a bandwagon.

Yes, because using evidence you can easily disprove is oh so very effective.

Pooky, I hate to disappoint you, but you're wrong on at least one count. Care to provide reasoning for your claims?

I agree with Rishi that we need a replacement and a claim.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's get the claim.

[Guardian]

VitaminR -- I find you scummy for

using a factually incorrect case to support a bandwagon.

Yes, because using evidence you can easily disprove is oh so very effective.

That isn't the point.

Momentum was quickly building on me, and you jumped on a very easy argument to try and make me look more suspicious. The

lack

of consideration put into your statement is what makes me find it suspicious: you were using whatever argument you could to make me look scummy.

Pooky, I hate to disappoint you, but I agree with Rishi that we need a replacement and a claim.

At the least, we need a better case presented on Sarc before a claim is forced. I'd rather we were wagoning VitaminR than Sarc.

---

Mod: Please replace Sarcastro, and consider replacing any who haven't picked up their prods... Who has picked up their prods?

Everyone -- re-read the rules. The reason you all got prodded is that I asked for it. Similarly, I think me posting this is what makes Sarc get replaced?

Anyways, we need to be cognizant that even though we *need* a deadline, we aren't going to get one, and when players *need* to get prodded or replaced, we need to ask for it.

[Xdaamno]

Considering we might need 4/5 lynches in this game, keep in mind we should probably lynch before page 5 is up. Anything to get us moving faster such as claims or whatever is probably good IMO.

Cogito Ergo Sum replaces Sarcastro immediately. Only trumpezia hasn't picked up his prod. I will see about a replacement if I don't hear anything from him soon.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hi guys, just read through the game and, uh, I totally agree with CTD(he's definitely acting like a good townie even though I'm not, as it turns out, actually scum), so I'm not even going to try to defend Sarc.

I'm also going to note this game would be so much easier if I were a townie, because then I could advocate my own lynch. Sadly, that was not to be, as I'm the Protagonist of this fairy tale. I'm the intensely curious innkeeper's daughter and that means I tend to sneak and snoop, much to the displeasure of my father.

I'm the Cop.

I investigated VitaminR Night 1. He's a good guy.

I'm going to vote for Albert, as he's posted lots of empty posts. I feel he's lurking in plain sight.

Vote: Albert

[Rishi]

I'm going to take this claim at face value for now.

Unvote

[Guardian]

Hi guys, just read through the game and, uh, I totally agree with CTD(he's definitely acting like a good townie even though I'm not, as it turns out, actually scum), so I'm not even going to try to defend Sarc.

I really don't like this. I thought Sarc's actions were very defensible, and your complete abandonment of any argumentation and reliance on a claim disturbs me greatly.

CTD being town doesn't preclude Sarcastro from also being town.

I'm also going to note this game would be so much easier if I were a townie, because then I could advocate my own lynch. Sadly, that was not to be, as I'm the Protagonist of this fairy tale. I'm the intensely curious innkeeper's daughter and that means I tend to sneak and snoop, much to the displeasure of my father.

I'm the Cop.

Wow, I really don't like this either. Sarc wasn't particularly acting like I would imagine a cop should, and if you are scum, cop is a perfect claim in your situation.

I investigated VitaminR Night 1. He's a good guy.

Great..

unvote

.

igmeoy: vitr, CES

.

In sum, I don't think either of you should be lynched today, or probably the next day, as that would be suicide if CES is telling the truth, but in terms of my suspicion level on CES's role, it has elevated from his claim .

I'm going to vote for Albert, as he's posted lots of empty posts. I feel he's lurking in plain sight.

Vote: Albert

I feel he's done that too....

I'm OK with an Albert wagon actually.

-2

vote: Albert

.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Its just fucking stupid to make long-winded posts like this. I just realized that the reason I joined this game because it was supposed to be SHORT.

Unvote, vote Coron

I don't like how he defended Sarc. Probably trying to set me up.

[Rishi]

Its just fucking stupid to make long-winded posts like this. I just realized that the reason I joined this game because it was supposed to be SHORT.

Well, if you're going to be hostile, then maybe we should save you the trouble of reading.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

That's -1. Claim, please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I was waiting for that....

I am a role-blocker. Used my ability on Xdaamno last night.

[Guardian]

unvote

.... wtf

flavor?

[Rishi]

Unvote

Power roles galore. I don't know what to think any more. I am glad this game is moving though.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I won't be discussing the flavor. Take the claim or leave it and lynch me.

[Rishi]

I won't be discussing the flavor. Take the claim or leave it and lynch me.

Well, someone has just plain given up on the game. I haven't played in a themed game before, but I just don't like the idea of a claim without flavor.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lynching me isn't such a bad scenario...I have a 10% chance of blocking the doctor, after all.

[Xdaamno]

Hm. You randomly RBed someone, knowing it would more likely stop a power role than a kill?