Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[Lindisfarne]

AzBlue, why the HELL do you talk like that? It's so...disjointed.

[silverbullet999]

-Linds

AzBlue, why the HELL do you talk like that? It's so...disjointed.

????

what's confusing about it?

[LordChronos]

Somewhat surprised no one commented on my post where I voted mike.

[Equinox]

Urk. Sorry about the absence, everyone. I'm having a few issues off-site at the moment, and hopefully, they can be resolved fairly soon. Posting will be limited in the meantime.

All right, to catch up...

---

RNG is as good a reason for a vote as some of the reasons given in RVS.

I personally don't see how giving a nothing reason would help to give a read on me so didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it. It can be needed to get the game moving but we had our RQS so I deemed it unecessary.

Was happy to comply though if people wanted it for whatever reason (if mister random had fallen on anyone with 2+ votes already I'd have had another go).

True, RNG is

a

reason to vote in RVS. The problem is that we need people to be held accountable for their votes, no matter when or why that vote was made; if people use RNG, they aren't responsible for their votes. One very common (I'd argue that it's the only) way to move out of RVS is to question someone's RVS vote, and this is impossible to do on a vote that was determined by RNG. After all, the only thing you need to say is, "Hey, RNG said '6' so I voted so-and-so. It wasn't me!"

There's a treatise on the merits of RVS if you're interested in more reading.

You'd be surprised by what one can gather from an RVS reason. To use a real vote as a hypothetical example, silverbullet999 voted me earlier for being scum. Let's say Lindisfarne caught that and questioned silverbullet999: "How do you know Equinox is scum?" I might jump in and talk about why I think silverbullet999 chose me for his RVS vote. After some back and forth, town benefits with better reads on at least 3 players.

RQS and RVS are not mutually exclusive. RQS can be helpful but sometimes derails into theory discussion, which is what happened here; RVS looks useless but is, IMO, more productive.

Now, my question to you is: Why are you trying to appease people?

---

Welcome, AzBlueM. Now I remember that you're the haiku guy...

I don't know you guys
so I'm thinking meta is
rather useless now

Not necessarily. You can look up a player's past games by checking their wiki page (if they have one) or by using the Search feature. With thousands of active players, it's very rare that you'll be familiar with all 9+ players in a game.

Somewhat surprised no one commented on my post where I voted mike.

So am I, but I'm much more interested in how mikemike778 responds at the moment.

---

Okay, I'm done catching up.

a2rudeboy logged in on Saturday evening, but he hasn't posted anywhere on-site. Interesting.

I have town reads on 3 of you, null on 4 of you, and...

Unvote, Vote: mikemike778

[Lindisfarne]

Silver have you not read anything she posted? It's like a pseudo haiku. I looked at her past games, and that is how she universally posts everything. It's not very easy to follow.

[silverbullet999]

-Lindis

Silver have you not read anything she posted? It's like a pseudo haiku. I looked at her past games, and that is how she universally posts everything. It's not very easy to follow.

I read both his posts... while yes it's a slightly haikuish type format.. it's not like he's not saying what he means through actions... *smirks again*

No but really I read the two posts and don't see what's confusing about his posts

-The mike and Ike's business
Eh rather hear a bit more from him vs butting in so to speak.

[mikemike778]

True, RNG is a reason to vote in RVS. The problem is that we need people to be held accountable for their votes, no matter when or why that vote was made; if people use RNG, they aren't responsible for their votes. One very common (I'd argue that it's the only) way to move out of RVS is to question someone's RVS vote, and this is impossible to do on a vote that was determined by RNG. After all, the only thing you need to say is, "Hey, RNG said '6' so I voted so-and-so. It wasn't me!"

The vast majority of votes in RVS are one of two things:

a) Utterly random with a meaningless reason (or no reason at all)
b) Based on a previous game

Now I've not played with anyone here before so that leaves option a) - my totally meaningless reason was the Random Number Generator. Lets take post 4 as an example - LC votes Equinox but doesn't supply a reason - why has he done it ? Well my guess is he's picked someone at random to get the game moving. Just like me except I'm more open about it. This gives you more info on me than the meaningless crap that the scum have probably posted here.

Now, my question to you is: Why are you trying to appease people?

If you mean by putting a random vote in then why not ? Didn't even think of it at the time as the game was moving on anyway but didn't have any objections to it.

To use a real vote as a hypothetical example, silverbullet999 voted me earlier for being scum. Let's say Lindisfarne caught that and questioned silverbullet999: "How do you know Equinox is scum?" I might jump in and talk about why I think silverbullet999 chose me for his RVS vote. After some back and forth, town benefits with better reads on at least 3 players.

With such a useful lead ... maybe you should have jumped in and questioned it yourself .... but you didn't

Maybe its because you don't think its a lead you want followed perhaps - why would that be ? Or maybe its because you think it has zero more relevance that my reasoning.

[Equinox]

If you mean by putting a random vote in then why not ? Didn't even think of it at the time as the game was moving on anyway but didn't have any objections to it.

...and yet you didn't make a random vote until LordChronos asked you why you didn't have one, and you tacked on the qualifier "if you want me to vote for the sake of it." That doesn't tell me that you had no objections to making a random vote; that tells me you were trying to satisfy someone who had glanced your way.

With such a useful lead ... maybe you should have jumped in and questioned it yourself .... but you didn't

Maybe its because you don't think its a lead you want followed perhaps - why would that be ? Or maybe its because you think it has zero more relevance that my reasoning.

There was no need to question that vote. I knew exactly why silverbullet999 did it, and I felt the vote and its reasoning was alignment-neutral. The back story is fairly simple: silverbullet999 had tunneled me pretty hard in Open 233 until I finally died and flipped town; in a PM sometime later, he called me scum and made a joke vote. The vote in this game is the continuation of a running gag.

You're being rather defensive. What's up?

[LordChronos]

mike: Why no response to my post and the points within?

Would you say that no one has done anything scummy yet this game?

All: Another vote on mike and some comments from our resident lurkers would be nice.

[MrDNA32]

I have to agree that mikemike is looking a little jumpy right now, but I'm more concerned with getting lurkers talking at the moment.

@LordChronos
It always perks my suspicions when someone blatantly says come bandwagon with me. Keep building a case and people will follow if they agree.

[Lindisfarne]

Equinox

Gah. My apologies! I forgot that you posted questions before I did.

That was in regards to you saying why you started the RQS. However:

I'd like to continue from Lindisfarne's questions and ask a few of my own

You directly referenced the fact that I did ask first, in the very post in which you asked your questions. Now, you seem to be, from what little we have to go on in this game, a pretty thorough player. This is a pretty odd oversight on your part. Not necessarily scummy, but it irks me still.

The mike situation is funky. Let's take a look here:

mike, why no vote?

No one strikes me as possible scum yet

Do you believe a vote is only to lynch someone?

you vote for people for one of two reasons:

a) You think they are bad (scum)
b) To see how they react from it

And then he adds:

Still if you want me to vote for the sake of it then fair enough, off to random.org we go

VOTE: Lindisfarne

So mike saw no reason to vote early on. He gave his logic behind it (See: his two reasons). However in the same post he does a random vote "for the sake of it".

Why did you feel pressured to place a random vote?

^at this point I am going to skip over an important mike post, and focus on the conversation flow at hand, I will get back to it though.

Was happy to comply though if people wanted it for whatever reason (if mister random had fallen on anyone with 2+ votes already I'd have had another go).

So, mike used a random name generator. However, he stated if it landed on someone with 3 votes, he would have redone it. This goes against the concept of being truly "Random", which is what he was trying to attain. However, he says:

3 votes on someeone in RVS is too many.

He stated this in post 61, before he mentioned that he would use the RNG again if it came up with a name that had 3 votes on it. The two trains of thought connect (using a RNG again if a person has more than 3 votes, and that 3 votes on someone in RVS is too many). It shows he is cautious. However, Both scum and townspeople can be cautious. It just shows there is no contradiction there. Moving on.

I personally don't see how giving a nothing reason would help to give a read on me so didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it. It can be needed to get the game moving but we had our RQS so I deemed it unecessary.

I'll try to decipher this (this was part of the post I mentioned above as being oddly worded. something about it isn't easily approachable to me, maybe im just having a brain fart:

Essentially mike says giving a "nothing reason" behind a vote wouldn't help town get a read off of it (i.e. help us better judge his alignment via his vote), so he doesn't see the point. He then says since we had an RQS, that was enough to get the game moving, and random votes, once again are unnecessary (bear in mind, he random voted anyways).

Scummy post here. First, you say that you didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it, then went on to do that.

That, is true. He did say he saw no point, and then voted.

Second, you said you were just random voting, then said that you would have ignore the RNG result if it resulted in you voting someone with more than one vote, which means you were actually not random voting.

Now, although I have proven that that is TRUE, you are using it to pad an argument. Look up at my first point, about equinox. I COULD say that is a lie, he has lied this game. And if you look in depth, he falsified events as I have shown, and I even showed how it is illogical for him to chalk it off as a mistake. *See, I did add that up there for a good reason* HOWEVER, I don't view it as necessarily scummy. Although your remark about the randomality is TRUE, his logic behind WHY is consistent. It just doesn't come off as massively scummy in any way. This point is just trying to pad your case.

Now, my question to you is: Why are you trying to appease people?

If you mean by putting a random vote in then why not ? Didn't even think of it at the time as the game was moving on anyway but didn't have any objections to it.

Waaaaait.

I personally don't see how giving a nothing reason would help to give a read on me so didn't see the point in putting a vote on for the sake of it. It can be needed to get the game moving but we had our RQS so I deemed it unecessary.

You didn't "see a point" and viewed it "unnecessary" and yet you had no objections to it? Hmmm...

my totally meaningless reason was the Random Number Generator. Lets take post 4 as an example - LC votes Equinox but doesn't supply a reason - why has he done it ? Well my guess is he's picked someone at random to get the game moving. Just like me except I'm more open about it.

This gives you more info on me than the meaningless crap that the scum have probably posted here.

What the fuck, didn't he say:

I personally don't see how giving a nothing reason would help to give a read on me

You're going back on your own points dood.

FOS: Mike

I'm going to look deeper into Mr. DNA's posts. something seemed off when I was looking through the mike convo. Depending on what I find I may upgrade that FOS to a vote.

[KittyMo]

Votecount 6 - The Sparkly Kitten votecount.

Equinox (Silverbullet999) (1)
Silverbullet999 (a2rudeboy) (1)

mikemike778 (LordChronos, Equinox) (2)

Grump (AzBlueM) (1)
a2rudeboy (MrDNA32) (1)
MrDNA32 (mikemike778) (1)
LordChronos (Grump) (1)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
Deadline is 29th of December, 8:35 PM (Central Time).*

*This will probably be extended by a couple days, to account for the Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/InsertYourReligion'sDecemberHolidayHere season.

IMPORTANT: HI guys. (:

Prodding a2rudeboy - he's gone 72 hours+ without posting.

[Kitoari]

Hi KittyMo!

I have a lot more time on my hands then I thought I would, so don't worry about updating. Thanks for doing today's though.

[KittyMo]

Uhh, bye guys. >_>;

I already prodded him, btw, so you don't have to take care of that. =^_^=

[Lindisfarne]

Mr. DNA

While there was less here than I initially thought, I find one thing quite silly:
We have been playing this game for going on

5

days.
We are now on page

4

You have made a grand total of

4 friggin posts

Now, in that time, you have:

VOTE: Equinox

Then

VOTE: a2rudeboy

you then say:

mikemike is looking a little jumpy right now

and

It always perks my suspicions when someone blatantly says come bandwagon with me.

Tell me DNA, how many games have you played where that has happened? Show me here, on MS, a link to where someone has said that, causing you to be suspicious? Granted, your suspicions behind that are not unfounded, to be honest. However It sets off a flag when a newbie starts proclaiming past experience to help guide their judgment. Especially when past proven experience is pretty minimal.

Now naturally, I am being kind of nitpicky here. And I will point out your comments are staying consistent:

I'm more concerned with getting lurkers talking at the moment.

And for now VOTE: a2rudeboy to provide some posting incentive.

That said, you are getting a bit jumpy yourself. Two votes, claiming one guy is acting suspicious and calling another jumpy is pointing a lot of fingers in only 4 posts. You said it yourself here:

are you tossing out suspicion to see if it will stick

Now, as a side note: how is mike (since he was whom you were referencing in that section) "tossing out suspicion?" Also, you tried to vote rude boy while you were still voted on equinox. Did you just happen to forget that? You need to unvote to revote.

AZBLUE

You also need to UNVOTE to REVOTE.

[Lindisfarne]

@ALL: I stand corrected. In this game unvoting is NOT necessary

Wow, newbie games have changed since I use to play!

[silverbullet999]

-Lindis

How much of a habit do you tend to post walls... i'll attempt to read it... somewhat... but if you wouldn't mind could you give a tl:dr?

[silverbullet999]

-Lindis
actually nevermind, it wasn't really a wall, quotes made it look longer.

comments shortly.

[Lindisfarne]

It's actually a streamlined version of the back and forth spread over 4 pages. It's better than reading 4 pages over again.

Also, read my sig, plox.

[silverbullet999]

-Equi

The vote in this game is the continuation of a running gag.

[sarcasm]My vote is no gag! You are Scum!! [/sarcasm]
[ala confirming said backstory in case mike decides to attempt to say your lying...]

-MrDNA

I have to agree that mikemike is looking a little jumpy right now, but I'm more concerned with getting lurkers talking at the moment.

If your more concerned with getting lurkers talking.. why aren't you doing anything.. to get lurkers talking?

-Lindis

It's actually a streamlined version of the back and forth spread over 4 pages. It's better than reading 4 pages over again.

I agree

Also, read my sig, plox.

rgr wilco

[AzBlueM]

Lind, I said I'd stop 1/2way through my 2nd post, but just to answer your question, I think it's rather fun. I'm typing in normal sentence for the most part, just typing return a few more times. I find I'm inclined to agree w/your/LC's mike case, or at least the contradiction you found.

DNA, who is your main suspect atm?

silver, Eq, I'm a girl.

Eq, I'm still not too hot on meta defense/attack after reading a few things. In your other IC newbie game, you said you we're the type of IC to post RQs, but you did here. I'm questioning: should I read into that, is it important? Lots of wifom coming up. Plus, personally, I'd like to think that I've improved since my first game, so I don't think it's reliable on myself and wouldn't like to apply it to others. (I can't believe I just had a theory discussion...sorry anyone who had to read through that.)

Just like me except I'm more open about it.This gives you more info on me than the meaningless crap that the scum have probably posted here.

How exactly does this give more info? RNG seems just as meaningless (if not more so) than running gag or avatar based. Plus, it not being truly random makes me question why you'd use a RNG in the first place.

Mod: mikemike does not have 2 votes, nor does he have one on himself, I think you mean Eq

Preview edit: what does tl;dr stand for? I know it's used for giving a summary but is it an acronym or what?

[Lindisfarne]

"Too Long; Didn't Read"

[Equinox]

I'll address the rest of the posts later. For right now:

You directly referenced the fact that I did ask first, in the very post in which you asked your questions. Now, you seem to be, from what little we have to go on in this game, a pretty thorough player. This is a pretty odd oversight on your part. Not necessarily scummy, but it irks me still.

I don't know how I goofed, either.

Eq, I'm still not too hot on meta defense/attack after reading a few things. In your other IC newbie game, you said you weren't the type of IC to post RQs, but you did here. I'm questioning: should I read into that, is it important? Lots of wifom coming up.

Oh, yeah. I did say that. The change has nothing to do with alignment. When I ICed Newbie 1001, I wasn't as familiar with RQS and so chose to not run one. It's been a few months since then, and I've looked at how other players approach RQS and look at responses in terms of determining alignment; I'm interested in doing something like that.

[silverbullet999]

-The Girl

silver, Eq, I'm a girl.

Well... your still a man... but by man I simply meant Human. (I'm just too lazy to type out human all the time... same thing with the he... it's really she.. but laziness implies otherwise)

(Ultra Save + 1)

[MrDNA32]

@Lindisfarne
I have played one game and read quite a few on this site. During Newbie 1029 Babushka said "we need more votes on Con"
So I have seen this before in a game I've played. I'm not claiming past judgment though, its just common sense a strong case speaks for itself and dosn't need you to call for support.

3 votes on someone in RVS is too many. Especially in a newbie game where a couple of newbies could easily jump on a bandwagon without knowing better. Looks to me like something a scum player could do hoping to get a quick mislynch.

@mikemike778
do you honestly mean to tell me you believe that someone at -2 would be quick lynched, on page 3?
or are you tossing out suspicion to see if it will stick. I think everyone else could clearly see what I was doing here. I'm going to keep an eye on you.

You forgot my initial RVS vote on Grump. I voted 1 RVS, 1 on Equinox to shake things up, and one to try to get a lurker talking

I don't think I'm being overly jumpy, I am trying to gather info and pointing out what I notice.
I will point out here, if your going to be nitpicky make sure to pay attention to all the details. So far you missed a vote I made, missed an explanation you have asked me to repeat and missed part of the rules for this particular game.

@silverbullet
I voted on them and asked a question, what more can I do?

@Az
right now mike, but its an extremely weak read

I also notice Grump has seem to disappeared as well, Grump do you have anything to add to current happenings?