Newbie 1156 - Over

[zMuffinMan]

Another long post, again cut up into sections - Responses to Revenus first, responses to numberQ second, responses to ggoodie third...

"i don't give a fuck" attitudes are generally those of scum who are too lazy to read the game.

You are 100% wrong and I could link to every single game I've played if you want some examples of this. The sort of attitude I'm talking about is far more likely to come from town.

and yes, you do need to give more than just *voting* someone to scumhunt. scumhunting isn't just voting for scum; its rooting them out along with their scumbuddies through their posting weaknesses. playing like an anti-town douche is scummy. therefore, zmm and prime are the scummiest people in the game.

Again, you are completely wrong.

Scum hunting is finding scum and

only

finding scum. Well, also getting them lynched, and sometimes that requires lots of arguments and convincing, but sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah, finding scum buddies is also part of scum hunting, but again, you're missing the point - you're saying Albert wasn't scum hunting, but he was.

and its funny how you go out of your way to defend prime, when the only person he's given reasons for being scum is kiwi.

Out of my way? I said I'd give explanations for my reads, you got an explanation for my town read on Prime.

The only person he's given reasons for being scum is Kiwi? Incorrect. He's clearly told you he has town reads on like 4-5 people in this game. Process of Elimination is also a reason for suspecting people.

being anti-town is scummy.

On a side note, this is something else you are completely, 100% wrong about, and this sort of thinking is the reason town loses so much.

Anti-town does not mean scummy. At all.

If you want a direct example of something that's anti-town and not scummy: a cop claiming their actual role D1, unprompted. Completely anti-town, not actually scummy (regardless of how people perceive it at the time).

Laziness is anti-town like lurking is anti-town, but it's not actually scummy. It

can

be scummy, but just doing something that's anti-town is not scummy by itself.



-----

I won't find you scummy for trying to explain your predecessor as pro-town.

I'm not actually saying Albert's play was "pro-town". It just wasn't anti-town, as people seem to be suggesting it was.

Also got around to reading that 1106 topic you linked to... you in that game and Rampage in this game are in no way, shape, or form similar. You explain things in 1106 for one.

The reason I linked 1106 is purely because people were attacking me for not wanting to give more information than I deemed necessary, and calling me anti-town because of it. Yeah, I was explaining things more, but that's my playstyle. I do it because it helps when I want people to listen to me.

The point is, not wanting to give every single one of your thoughts at any given time is not necessarily anti-town.




-----

A lot of this makes sense, but if he doesn't explain himself, he can't possibly think that other people will follow him.

Actually, you'd be surprised how far charisma and authority can go towards getting someone lynched.

Like, really... Some games you just need to be the loudest player and you get your way.

Whether or not that's the best method is another issue altogether, though.

It's only logical to want a good reason to lynch someone.

I can't recall, but did you ever actually

ask

him for his reasons?

First game I played with Albert, I saw him playing somewhat similar to how he played in this game (it was a newbie game I replaced into, newbie1078). I replaced into it D2, he was calling someone scum but hadn't really explained it, all it took was me asking him to explain it, and he did.

Also, ABR tried to cut discussion short when people were objecting to his play, but as soon as pressure started to build on him, he wanted more discussion. This seems a bit contradictory, no?

No, it's not contradictory and I'll explain why (once again).

Albert was trying to cut discussion because he thought a lynch had been agreed upon and he was convinced that theamateur was scum. In this situation, there is no point in giving scum more information than they currently have before going into the night phase. You don't want to tell them who is most suspicious or least suspicious based on lynch flips because it gives them information that will influence who they night kill.

On the other hand, when it was Albert who was possibly going to be lynched, of course he tried to prevent his own lynch. And discussion is, of course, the best way to prevent your own lynch.

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, the game I was talking about somewhere in the previous post: Newbie1078

Albert was calling Trouble scum D2, but hadn't actually explained why, all it really took was me asking for explanations and he did.

(Trouble was actually scum)

[Revenus]

Are you kidding me? You defend albert's play by linking to another game yet the second post he makes that game contains more content than all he has in this game.

Also, Prime has looked better, but still don't like him. He did bring up a good point on ggoodie though.

Unvote
Vote:ZMM

[zMuffinMan]

Again, you're completely missing the point.

And your suspicions are so far off it's not even funny.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, rather than you explaining why you think I'm scum or Prime is scum or whatever.

Tell me why you don't think Kiwi or numberQ is scum.

I want a bit more than "they write pro-town posts" because they don't, and even if they did, I want you to tell me what specifically you think is pro-town about their posts.

[zMuffinMan]

why you think they're town*

[Revenus]

nah. no more discussion please.

[ggoodie12]

So uh. You don't have ANYONE that you think is definitely scum?

I only used to have Theam and ABR. Neither of them are here anymore and their replacements have me wondering. If Princess Kiwi had been replaced with a seemingly townie player wouldn't you reconsider her position?

[ggoodie12]

Also, Prime, I can't help but notice you once again failed to explain yourself. bbs with responses to zMM

[zMuffinMan]

Revenus is trying to cut off discussion. This is obviously scummy. QED.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't get it. You think it's a sign of scumminess, and you're stubbornly trying to prove a point by intentionally playing in an anti-town way. How can you not see Albert's refusal to play in a "pro-town" way as similar to what you're doing here?

You're trying to prove a point, but you're still being hypocritical in proving that point, so you're acting in a way that you think is anti-town and scummy (even if you think you have a good reason for doing so).

You should be able to realise that this sort of thing doesn't always mean someone is scum.

Why not just humour me, pretend I'm town, and explain to me why numberQ and Kiwi are town reads of yours?

Be cool. I'll be your fwend if you want.

[Revenus]

I won't humor you because I don't need to explain things to scum.

[zMuffinMan]

We can have a sleepover party with pillow fights and bake cupcakes together and talk about which boy we have a crush on.

It'll be fun.

Come on. You know you want to.

[Revenus]

I do love some man cock.


Maybe tomorrow

[PrimeIntellect]

Hey guys what's going on her-
...
Welp.
I'll return once the gaydiation goes down a bit.

[Shiidaji]

I... I feel horribly left out.



(Kiwi's V/LA ends tomorrow iirc?)

[PrimeIntellect]

Watch out shii; you should put on a gaydiation suit.
My Gayger counter is going off like crazy from this lethal gaydiation.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, Revenus, you're still going about proving this "point" you're trying to make the wrong way. Albert was trying to cut discussion because he didn't want people to discuss who was most likely scum or town based on theamateur's flip because it would influence the night kill... whereas people have already given full reads now, and not giving explanations only helps scum and disadvantages town here.

[ggoodie12]

A lot of this makes sense, but if he doesn't explain himself, he can't possibly think that other people will follow him.

Actually, you'd be surprised how far charisma and authority can go towards getting someone lynched.

Like, really... Some games you just need to be the loudest player and you get your way.

Whether or not that's the best method is another issue altogether, though.

It's only logical to want a good reason to lynch someone.

I can't recall, but did you ever actually

ask

him for his reasons?

People had been upset with him about it up until he replaced out, but I actually did only find one

direct

question to him:

Then give us a reason why we should listen to you.

First game I played with Albert, I saw him playing somewhat similar to how he played in this game (it was a newbie game I replaced into, newbie1078). I replaced into it D2, he was calling someone scum but hadn't really explained it, all it took was me asking him to explain it, and he did.

Also, ABR tried to cut discussion short when people were objecting to his play, but as soon as pressure started to build on him, he wanted more discussion. This seems a bit contradictory, no?

No, it's not contradictory and I'll explain why (once again).

Albert was trying to cut discussion because he thought a lynch had been agreed upon and he was convinced that theamateur was scum. In this situation, there is no point in giving scum more information than they currently have before going into the night phase. You don't want to tell them who is most suspicious or least suspicious based on lynch flips because it gives them information that will influence who they night kill.

On the other hand, when it was Albert who was possibly going to be lynched, of course he tried to prevent his own lynch. And discussion is, of course, the best way to prevent your own lynch.

That makes sense, but I still think that when he realized that people weren't going to go for his silence is golden attitude he should have just explained himself instead of trolling Rev.


PS: Lol Prime

[Shiidaji]

B-but Prime, it might be too late. I already feel the urge to bake a cake and paint my room hot pink.

HELP ME D:

[Revenus]

btw, Revenus, you're still going about proving this "point" you're trying to make the wrong way. Albert was trying to cut discussion because he didn't want people to discuss who was most likely scum or town based on theamateur's flip because it would influence the night kill... whereas people have already given full reads now, and not giving explanations only helps scum and disadvantages town here.

My main problem with Rampage (and you defending him) is he didn't want discussion period. Look at his posts and tell me which one of them provided content at all.


Hell, he even said "I'm not going to discuss anything until there are unvotes" and then proceeded to not discuss anything.

[Shiidaji]

Muffin, is Rampage known as a player to just not take games seriously and throw caution to the wind? I haven't read much on this site yet, but I get that 'witty confidence' feel from him like a lot of people. He definitely seems like a capable player, you know, when he's trying.

[PrimeIntellect]

I dunno, it might just be all of my experience talking, but he just oozed town to me once he started actually posting.

[zMuffinMan]

@ggoodie,

All that tells me is that I'm right when I said this to Revenus:

Your other issue is that you weren't going about extracting the information you wanted from Albert the right way. And, again, you're going to come across some people in other areas of this site that sometimes even get upset when you interact with them the wrong way.

You all approached Albert the wrong way, expecting certain things from him because he's the IC when that simply isn't his playstyle.

Nobody asked him the right questions.

So what happened? He trolled.

I'm not saying what he did was right. But, the lesson to be learned here is that you're going to come across some people who simply don't play in the way you want them to play, and in order to deal with them, you need to approach them in the right way and ask them the right questions.




@Revenus,

Look at his posts and tell me which one of them provided content at all.

Playstyle issue.

I've looked at his posts.

He voted theamateur - that's "content" in the form of him having a scum read on theamateur. Did you ask him to explain it? No. You asked him to give other reads. He didn't, and I've told you why. You say that's anti-town, and I'm telling you it simply isn't.

He then changed his vote to Kiwi. Did you ask him to explain it? No. Or if you did, could you show me where? What you did do is call him scummy and anti-town and complain about him. Congratulations. You achieved nothing and you didn't get the information out of Albert that you wanted.

Yeah, he wasn't pro-actively trying to provide the content that you wanted him to provide. That's a playstyle issue. You are going to come across players like this if you venture into other areas of the site (and, wow, I cannot wait to see you interact with Empking). Get over it.

Hell, he even said "I'm not going to discuss anything until there are unvotes" and then proceeded to not discuss anything.

Nah, what you're not understanding is that he asked for you to unvote so you could discuss things. You refused, he got upset and saw no reason to discuss things because he didn't give a shit.

Again, I'm not saying what he did is the right thing here, but you're misunderstanding his intentions.



@shiidaji,

Muffin, is Rampage known as a player to just not take games seriously and throw caution to the wind?

I'm probably not the best person to ask about this because I have rather limited experience with Albert, but I've seen various people talk about Albert in different places, and there seem to be some people that really dislike his playstyle for various reasons (I suppose you could say that he does throw caution to the wind in some games he plays).

[Revenus]

suddenly throwing your vote down is content?


ho ho ho