Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[Vaya]

Posting in response to prod, will get back to this game later.

[Cyberbob]

I'd be down for a CoCo lynch just so we don't have to deal with him any more, otherwise, Cathart still looks the scummiest to me.

Yeah, after thinking about it a bunch it's honestly difficult to see CoCo and Cathart being buddies. I can see each of them

individually

being scum, and I can see each of them

individually

being buddies with Peabody, but either they've done a good job of distancing from each other or one of them isn't scum.

Simply going by probabilities I'm inclined towards the latter option, and if I had to decide which one was "scum" and which one was "necessary lynch" - which I do, mindlessly lynching them both isn't really an option and the "necessary lynch" title can always be shaken off if the person wearing it lifts their game - I would pick CoCo for the latter and Cathart for the former. CoCo is certainly very scummy, and Hoopla's post summarising the case on him is very persuasive, but I am thinking that Cathart would be the better of the two to lynch

first

.

I guess what I'm saying in a kind of roundabout manner is that I agree with the quoted sentence.

[charter]

I don't really think CoCo is likely to be scum, I just think he's a big enough distraction that a lynch, and presumably nightkill, is an acceptable price to pay to be rid of him. The fact that he could be scum is just gravy.

I do think Cathart is scum, and want to lynch him because I'm pretty sure it will bring us one step closer to the end of the game.

As far as both of them being scum together, that is probably the least likely combination of scum imaginable.

[mathcam]

No takes on SensFan? CoCo and cathart are both reasonable second-bests for me.

Posting in response to prod, will get back to this game later.

You are in too many games.

Cam

[Cyberbob]

As far as both of them being scum together, that is probably the least likely combination of scum imaginable.

Yup, this is the precise reason why I've been a bit hesitant with my vote today. Decisions...

Hmm. I just had a Thought (with a capital T). I'd like to keep it to my chest for a bit later in the day, though.

No takes on SensFan? CoCo and cathart are both reasonable second-bests for me.

Ah, I knew I was forgetting someone. I will have to go back and take another look at the case on SensFan as I've managed to completely forget about it.

[Cyberbob]

Right, so I took a look back through your posts mathcam and all I can see about SensFan that you've been attacking for has been his first vote at the start of the game, and something about his choice of what to focus on after having come off V/LA "feeling off".

Could you elaborate on that second point a bit? It was enough for you to put him in your "Would pick to be lynched" category in the same post (and Sens picked up on this in Post 412), but you don't appear to have touched on it again. Indeed, in Post 537 he didn't even make your top 3...

I'm not having a go, I'm just looking for a bit more information before I can make a decision as to whether his lynch might be something to look at. I've looked at other people's posts too and the only things I've found have been criticisms of his lurking - which should be met with replacement rather than lynching.

[Cyberbob]

lurking

On this note, activity has dropped

right

off today. Are there exams coming up for people or something?

[Hoopla]

lurking

On this note, activity has dropped

right

off today. Are there exams coming up for people or something?

It's mainly Vaya missing. Sens and SC need to contribute something when they can.

[SerialClergyman]

Hi guys, I am trying to keep up with the game, but things are really difficult with the net.

I'm surprised I haven't copped more attacks. My vote on Peabody was after he self-imploded, so I can hardly be credited with being on the wagon and the person I pushed most agaisnt flipped town callign me scum. It's surprising to me that more people didn't jump on it. This especially includes Sens who seemed to have it in for me yesterday but didn't mention it today. I think if he was scum trying to set up something with his NK he'd be unlikely to just drop it.

I'm not sure what to think of Peabody's collapse. I think we ignore his outburst, I think it's almost impossible he'd give away his partner in that manner.

I'm starting to be convinced by a CoCo lynch. I know I originally said he was likely to be town, but his behaviour to the Peabody wagon is strange and I wouldn't be cmfortable trying to read him in a lylo situation.

Sorry for my brevity, I'll try to be more active but I can't promise anything until the bloody telco puts in my phone line. My hands are shaking due to internet withdrawal

[Cyberbob]

I think we ignore his outburst, I think it's almost impossible he'd give away his partner in that manner.

Do you think it is "almost impossible" that Vaya is scum then?

[Hoopla]

Charter, you've been voting for Cathart all of this day. I'm still fuzzy on your reasoning behind it - can you help me out?

[Col.Cathart]

@Cathart: Suffice to say, because my behavior seems to get a lot of people riled up, it wouldn't matter what Peabody's alignment had been upon his lynch. Yes, I was wrong about him being town, but there would still be plenty of animosity and suspicion of me regardless whether I hammered or not. Because I had nothing to lose, would it not be best for me to make the killing blow?

Not really IMO. Hammering someone who you think is town is never the best option. You can even see it from people reaction. Also, except from Sens and me, nobody voted you, and most people took 'it's CoCo, let him live and talk what he wants for now' stance. Even now, after pulling this stunt, you're still only #2 on todays suspect list (*looks at the stormy clouds gathering around his head*), so I'm not really buying this 'nothing to lose' defense...

Charter: I know you are busy with your crusade against me, but can you tell us, why do you think SC is suspicious?

[charter]

The TL;DR version of why Cathart is scum:

• Post 120, he defends Peabody.
  
• Post 656, I find all interactions with Cathart Peabody had, 2/3 of them are really scummy.
  
• End of day one, Cathart was sticking with Peabody voting CoCo, completely ignored Peabody. His last mention of Peabody was post 485, and it was VERY scummy.
  
• Really has no interest in explaining any of the points I've raised against him, is instead going back to his CoCo vote, when it's VERY unlikely CoCo is scum. If scum were going to bus yesterday, it would have been bussing CoCo since I can't imagine they would think he'd last long. CoCo was clearly the town alternative to the scum lynch yesterday.

TL;DR version of that:
Cathart is scum.

[SensFan]

I've been busy.

I'll be back here tonight.

[Col.Cathart]

Post 120, he defends Peabody.

As I said already many times before - No. There was no defense in there.

Post 656, I find all interactions with Cathart Peabody had, 2/3 of them are really scummy.

Cannot really say here, except from that, I think that Peabody was trying to buddy with me.

End of day one, Cathart was sticking with Peabody voting CoCo, completely ignored Peabody. His last mention of Peabody was post 485, and it was VERY scummy.

Because to the moment of Peabody's confession, my point about him was exactly the same. What was so scummy in NOT finding him as suspicious as someone else? Dunno. Fine, he was a scum, but everyone makes mistakes, no?

Really has no interest in explaining any of the points I've raised against him, is instead going back to his CoCo vote, when it's VERY unlikely CoCo is scum. If scum were going to bus yesterday, it would have been bussing CoCo since I can't imagine they would think he'd last long. CoCo was clearly the town alternative to the scum lynch yesterday.

How can I be interested in arguing with you, when you just closed the case with 'Cathart - 100% scum' result and you are ignoring EVERYTHING I'm trying to say here (the example with 'Defense' of Peabody is a prime example of this)? What's the point in it?

Also, whether CoCo is scum or not, depends of certain point of view. You on the other hand just said 'CoCo is not a scum', and now you're acting, like it is confirmed already.

Cathart is scum.

No.

[charter]

As I said already many times before - No. There was no defense in there.

Yes, you've said this before, but I disagree and still think it's scummy.

Post 656, I find all interactions with Cathart Peabody had, 2/3 of them are really scummy.

Cannot really say here, except from that, I think that Peabody was trying to buddy with me.

You say buddying, I say defending. The only difference between the two is your alignment, so you saying you're town isn't convincing.

End of day one, Cathart was sticking with Peabody voting CoCo, completely ignored Peabody. His last mention of Peabody was post 485, and it was VERY scummy.

Because to the moment of Peabody's confession, my point about him was exactly the same. What was so scummy in NOT finding him as suspicious as someone else? Dunno. Fine, he was a scum, but everyone makes mistakes, no?

It is incredibly scummy. Peabody was scum, so not finding him suspicious IS scummy. That's not even my point though, you were voting with him and were ignoring the case/wagon against Peabody.

Really has no interest in explaining any of the points I've raised against him, is instead going back to his CoCo vote, when it's VERY unlikely CoCo is scum. If scum were going to bus yesterday, it would have been bussing CoCo since I can't imagine they would think he'd last long. CoCo was clearly the town alternative to the scum lynch yesterday.

How can I be interested in arguing with you, when you just closed the case with 'Cathart - 100% scum' result and you are ignoring EVERYTHING I'm trying to say here (the example with 'Defense' of Peabody is a prime example of this)? What's the point in it?

The only thing that you adequately addressed was about post 120, I just don't agree with what you've said. The other ones you just sluffed off, and proceeded with the CoCo hate.

Also, whether CoCo is scum or not, depends of certain point of view. You on the other hand just said 'CoCo is not a scum', and now you're acting, like it is confirmed already.

It seems extremely unlikely he is scum. I don't see why Peabody would have been lynch over CoCo when it is incredibly likely CoCo is going to be lynched at some point. Might as well bus CoCo, and then Peabody might get saved.

[Col.Cathart]

It is incredibly scummy. Peabody was scum, so not finding him suspicious IS scummy.

Says someone who abandoned his wagon at L-1 state.

That's not even my point though, you were voting with him and were ignoring the case/wagon against Peabody.

In that 'very scummy post' of mine I presented my thoughts about Peabody case, and said I won't vote him, so I also stated my opinion about this wagon. They didn't change at all until confession (and between it, and the end of D1 I wasn't around the comp, so I couldn't really say anything until D2), so why say something which was said already?

The only thing that you adequately addressed was about post 120, I just don't agree with what you've said. The other ones you just sluffed off, and proceeded with the CoCo hate.

That's your opinion. IMO I answered everything what was need to be answered. If you don't agree with it, then say it, and don't change opinion into confirmed fact.

Also, Me and hate on CoCo? Heh, my case and questions are him, are far from hate. The only hate I see here is you against me. Also instead of proceeding with hate on me, can you answer my previous question about suspicions on SC?

It seems extremely unlikely he is scum. I don't see why Peabody would have been lynch over CoCo when it is incredibly likely CoCo is going to be lynched at some point. Might as well bus CoCo, and then Peabody might get saved.

Maybe to get typical 'after bussing' argument 'Hey look! I helped lynching the scum'? CoCo certainly seemed to do something like that when he said he'll hammer Peabody, so why it couldn't go the other way around? In my opinion CoCo is a scum. Hate it or love it, lynch me for it if you want. I won't change my vote against my beliefs to please the crowd.

[charter]

Well, I still think Cathart is scum. I can see our back and forth isn't going anywhere, so I'm dropping it.

[SensFan]

I just did a quick site-wide search, now that it's back up, and I have some unfortunate news.

As far as I can tell, Peabody is not alive in any games at the moment. Further, unless I've overlooked something, this is his very first game as Scum. As much as it sucks (especially for Vaya), and it goes partly against the spirit of the game, I really do think she needs to be lynched here.

Firstly, I don't think a first-time Scum, especially one that is obviously a fairly new player, will have the sense to fake something like that. This is amplified given Peabody doesn't strike me as the type to have read past games or anything, and so I very much doubt he has ever even been exposed to that sort of behaviour. It's much more likely he was just excited to play his first time as Scum, and got overly upset when his partner bussed him.
Secondly, whether we like it or not, this WIFOM will hang over us until the end of the game, and I certainly don't think anyone here is comfortable not lynching Vaya in a LyLo scenario, given the situation. Since she will need to be lynched anyways, might as well be sooner rather than later, especially given that later lynches are better for the Town.
Thirdly, regardless of whether she is Scum or not, this will be an incredibly useful lynch. If she flips Scum, either we won or we know that anyone else in that scumgroup didn't bus Peabody. If she flips Town, we know Peabody was a hell of a lot more cunning and knowledgeable (although ethicly-questionable) than it appears, and we'll have a better idea of how to look through his posts for clues.

Sorry this happened to you, Vaya, regardless of your alignment. I certainly think action should be taken about this outside the sphere of the game.

Vote: Vaya

[mathcam]

Interesting, Sens. I had exactly the opposite reaction. Peabody didn't seem particularly bitter about being lynched, and I think it's more fitting of Peabody's playstyle to make a fake stab at incriminating someone on his way out, not realizing that the natural tendency would be to assume he was making it up.

On a slightly impalatable meta-note, the absence of the mod stepping in or any site-wide ban of peabody is evidence that either it wasn't a legitimate game-ruin, or possibly that the mod talked with scum vaya and vaya said he wanted to play on.

That said, even though I'm pretty pro-Vaya at this point, I think you have a fair point that I would still be uncomfortable letting her live in a LyLo situation. Maybe that does mean he needs to be lynched sooner rather than later. Hm. I really need to hear Vaya's response.

@CyberBob: My arguments from yesterday on SensFan were pretty weak, and I'm not really citing them as support for my vote. I'm more relying on my discussion today, how I think people showing up in my "medium" list make more natural targets, and then having other reasons for not voting other people in that list. SensFan is someone I don't feel particularly pro-town about who happens to show up in that middle list.

Cam

[charter]

Well, I was in a game where my scumbuddy claimed the scumteam just to prove someone else wrong midday, and we restarted. There it was a pretty clear cut case of ruining the game, and they were rightly banned. I've been in games where a scum's dying words were mentions of scumbuddies, and I've found the best thing to do is just ignore it. I think the right thing to do is to lynch Vaya if he is scummy enough to deserve it, not to eliminate WIFOM.

[Vaya]

@Sensfan
I'd hate to admit it, but some of what you say(your second reason, particularly) makes sense from an objective view. I don't think I'd be comfortable with a claimed scumbuddy alive at LyLo either. For that reason, I could understand why the town may want to lynch me.

I really don't agree with you on one thing, though. Peabody, up to his last post, really seemed rather calm and not upset. I really don't get the feeling at all that his post was the result of him being upset. Speaking objectively, I would say that his post was a gambit, either to try to get the town to lynch a townie, or an attempt to trick the town into believing the former and making everyone think his partner is town. So I disagree with your reasoning for why my lynch would be informative. Rather, I believe the opposite, that my lynch would be completely uninformative and would essentially be giving scum a free night and kill.

If the rest of the town really thinks that lynching me is a good idea, I won't fight against it, especially because of my poor activity in this game thus far. I of course, am not in favor of my lynch though.

[SensFan]

@CyberBob: My arguments from yesterday on SensFan were pretty weak, and I'm not really citing them as support for my vote. I'm more relying on my discussion today, how I think people showing up in my "medium" list make more natural targets, and then having other reasons for not voting other people in that list. SensFan is someone I don't feel particularly pro-town about who happens to show up in that middle list.

Cam

So you think Peabody is crafty enough to make Vaya not obvscum after his claim, and yet are assuming his buddy(ies) are in the people he didn't defend or attack much?
As for me personally, the only thing I can say about myself re: Peabody is that I do feel I was a fairly major proponent in his lynch, and that would have been a wholy unnecessary bus.

[Cyberbob]

@CyberBob: My arguments from yesterday on SensFan were pretty weak, and I'm not really citing them as support for my vote. I'm more relying on my discussion today, how I think people showing up in my "medium" list make more natural targets, and then having other reasons for not voting other people in that list. SensFan is someone I don't feel particularly pro-town about who happens to show up in that middle list.

Okay, I can sorta-kinda buy that. I do question whether it is really enough to place him ahead of CoCo and Cathart, but right now I'd probably place him ahead of charter as my third preference.


As far as Vaya goes, that piece of WIFOM

is

going to have to be sorted out one way or another. I'm inclined to simply not buy into Peabody's cute little play and ignore it as being immaterial, but Vaya is almost certainly going to make it to the endgame (assuming we get that far, of course) if we don't lynch him and depending on who's left alive at whatever point I would be willing to support that option. Not today, though; today there are bigger and better fish to fry.

Vote:Col. Cathart

[SensFan]

As far as Vaya goes, that piece of WIFOM

is

going to have to be sorted out one way or another. I'm inclined to simply not buy into Peabody's cute little play and ignore it as being immaterial, but Vaya is almost certainly going to make it to the endgame (assuming we get that far, of course) if we don't lynch him and depending on who's left alive at whatever point I would be willing to support that option. Not today, though; today there are bigger and better fish to fry.

Vote:Col. Cathart

I disagree.
Vaya's lynch will basically be one of policy. I don't want to policy lynch someone in LyLo.