Mini 1341 - Game Over!

[Salamence20]

I feel as if I am going to be the swing here and I hate it. I'm sure everyone here will hate me for this, but I have to give this a shot and see where it goes...

Vote: CES

[Junpei]

You're already compromising? Before the replacement comes?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Eh, I don't know what to make of that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote. Let's get Whiskers replaced first.

Whiskers' replacement should give his a new way of looking at the slot. And as long as he is absent, if you believe he is a townie (which you must at least to some degree if you're choosing to vote for someone else), then we can not lynch scum without scum cooperating.

And waiting a few days will also mean I will suddenly have tons more time and energy I can dedicate to this game.

[Whiskers]

I'm pulling an Ald!

Which is to say, I've read and caught up and we'll see if Jackal lets me back in, but until then:
I'll answer some questions, the first one being the only one I currently remember: No, Sala, my jee vote was not RVS. I had read the game at one point but didn't get to post. When I posted, I remembered feeling not-quite-right about jee, but I couldn't remember what. Not random... but, as there wasn't a wagon on him, I decided it only had as much weight as a random vote, so I made it.

Alright, well.

What are the chances of CES and Junpei? Just asking. I do know a player or two who bus their partners really well and then win-- although, I guess that was an alt when I met her. Him? idk. Seriously! Scum pushed the lynch on their own two-shot dayvig in a nightless game before any shots were fired AND STILL WON.

Recent CES post looks like a threat:

That is my current theory, yes, although

I haven't ruled you out.

What is that you see in Junpei that you wouldn't expect to see from Junpeiscum?

Ok, so im going to take a guess that your main lynches are whiskers and Junpei. How do you suspect me and junpei as scumbuddies when you clearly stated it wasnt possible we were both scum?

He only sees you as scumbuddies if you don't agree with him.

Junpei! What's your gripe with him, CES? he posts and looks good, and really, isn't that all a townie needs? As opposed to you-- NOT posting, and struggling to stay a-float. Because now is the time to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

CESQ! Maybe I'm just an idiot, can I have reads, and explanations?

Also, I'd like to contest your nightkill analysis, which reads: "Whiskers is SO RANDOM that she MUST have RANDOMLY killed AVox."

Alternatively, it could be: "Whiskers wanted to LYNCH ICEninja so she KILLED his main opponent!"
Which... what? Just kill the ninja. Look, I like being tricky and sly, but framing just doesn't work. It hasn't worked for me in the past, and if there's someone I want dead-- I'll just kill that person.

Okay!
Come at me with direct questions. If Jackle-mod will take me back, I'll keep the activity up until the game-- or at least my part in it-- is over.

[Salamence20]

Well now that whiskers is here, I don't need to be drastic

UNVOTE:

Whiskers, who do you think are our two scum and why? Who are you willing to kill today? And why were you targeting the person I replaced (Brundibar) with just a gut read last time you were here.

[Whiskers]

Our Two Scum?

I don't know. while reading catch up, I was kind of feeling CES and you, but I don't know. I'd be willing to

lynch

Cog today. I was targeting Brundibar with nothing but a gut read because a simple ISO (as opposed to a full read-through) didn't get me anything I felt was solid evidence; nothing I could use to prove guiltiness to anypony else.

Which is interesting. I don't know your playstyle, but I'm used to scum just letting the weak case die, rather than picking at the scab. You make me doubt my reads, Salamence.

[Jackal711]

Since a replacement has not yet been found, I am going to allow Whiskers to continue.
No change in deadline.

[Whiskers]

Thanks! And sorry.
__________________

Interesting! Just found out that CES is the replacement FOR jee.

You know what, it looks like I'm scum bussing that player slot pretty hard. Maybe I'm biased from my first-person perspective of myself, but that's what I'd say it looks like.

I wondered what happened to good old jee.
For my future reference: CES replaced jee, Junpei replaced ac1983fan, Whiskers replaces quidagis, and PoPP (after several hilarious typos on my part) has remained the same. Good job original player! Oh yeah, and Salamence replaces Brunibar.


I'm still looking for why I voted jee. It may turn out to have been nothing... as I read around, it seems I

should

have been voting ICE and AVox, since they look really bad on page 9! I think it was nine. I'm not on that page anymore.

[Salamence20]

I have some thoughts i would like to share with the group:

Everyone on the wagon for Ald: why did you vote for him?

If i am not mistaken, im willing to bet both scum are on that wagon, so i am willing to not vote whiskers today. Whiskers, im kinda new here, so i dont really have a playstyle.

Everyone: is there anyone against a CES lynch?

Im really doubting a CES/Junpei team, i could be wrong, but if they are a team that pulled a scum vs scum arguement, i would be impressed.

Last question: is there anyone alive that may of posted something that could of hinted to killing SV?

[Whiskers]

If i am not mistaken, im willing to bet both scum are on that wagon, so i am willing to not vote whiskers today.

I don't do very well reading into VCA and wagon-analysis. You might be able to do it, but "You weren't on the wagon, I won't vote for you" doesn't feel right to me.

Whiskers, im kinda new here, so i dont really have a playstyle.

Okay then, let me ask: how would you handle it as scum? The same way? Or differently?

Im really doubting a CES/Junpei team, i could be wrong, but if they are a team that pulled a scum vs scum arguement, i would be impressed.

As would I, but... they're both older players. Experienced. With Pine and the head and CES replacing in, that'd already make a really strong scumteam. ...which makes me wonder how we could have caught Pine. We should look for interactions between Pine and living players. I know part of the reason I attacked Brundi was because Pine was attacking him so hard and so stupidly. There was no way his reaction test could succeed (right?), meaning either A, it fails, and Brundi doesn't get lynched, or B, it succeeds (how!?) and Pine get towncred.

Last question: is there anyone alive that may of posted something that could of hinted to killing SV?

It would be better to look for other players AVox was attacking, or maybe even "who else would want to frame ICE?" Who is still alive from then, and what were their reads on ICE? Town reads could be scum laying in wait. I don't think anybody is going to slip and say, "I made the nightkill!" and I don't think SV's kill has any value for analysis. In fact, we were all wondering why he wasn't dead sooner!

THAT might be worth looking into. Why didn't scum kill SV sooner? Why were the other targets better targets? What would make, say, AVox's death more important than SV's?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I know part of the reason I attacked Brundi was because Pine was attacking him so hard and so stupidly. There was no way his reaction test could succeed (right?), meaning either A, it fails, and Brundi doesn't get lynched, or B, it succeeds (how!?) and Pine get towncred.

I'd say B it succeeds by Brundi slot getting towncred. Like you said, there's no way the reaction test could be successful.

THAT might be worth looking into. Why didn't scum kill SV sooner? Why were the other targets better targets? What would make, say, AVox's death more important than SV's?

AVox's death had little effect on lengthening ICE/VE's survival, not sure if I'd say it framed the slot, but it certainly did set the tone for a lynch. Do you believe this is what scum intended, Whiskers?

I can point out that early in the game AVox was unhappy with my RVS and stuck to this point for quite some time. Out of all town at the time he was a strong player, was making a large impact and probably the biggest threat at the time for any player. Contrast that with a player like SV, more or less confirmed town through set up speculation, who could only really put his votes behind where players like AVox would direct them to go.

[Salamence20]

I found something interesting in SV ISO. I will post later tonight, but i would love to hear from Junpei and CES before then.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Can you run me through your thought process with regard to your vote and unvote here, Salamence?

Junpei! What's your gripe with him, CES? he posts and looks good, and really, isn't that all a townie needs? As opposed to you-- NOT posting, and struggling to stay a-float. Because now is the time to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

The amount of time and energy one has to dedicate to a game are not related to alignment.

Also, I'd like to contest your nightkill analysis, which reads: "Whiskers is SO RANDOM that she MUST have RANDOMLY killed AVox."

Alternatively, it could be: "Whiskers wanted to LYNCH ICEninja so she KILLED his main opponent!"
Which... what? Just kill the ninja. Look, I like being tricky and sly, but framing just doesn't work. It hasn't worked for me in the past, and if there's someone I want dead-- I'll just kill that person.

Can you link to the previous time you tried it? (And killing a likely mislynch is definitely suboptimal.)

I'll have more later when I'm not tired. My holiday proper will start soon.

[Junpei]

veryone on the wagon for Ald: why did you vote for him?

I posted a case. It's one of the first things in my ISO if I recall.

Shattered Viewpoint was obviously town yesterday by vitrue of being a Double Voter. He was the obvious kill.

I found something interesting in SV ISO. I will post later tonight, but i would love to hear from Junpei and CES before then.

Anything else you are wondering about?

Why do you think both mafia were lynching Alduskkal?

I'm obviously not against a Cogito lynch.

pedit: Cogito: Effort IS indicative of alignment though unless you're a Village Idiot like Chronopie. Time management is important.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Do you intend to argue that your effort level here is a town tell or that my effort level here is a scum tell? If not, I don't really care about your generalities.

[Junpei]

Do you intend to argue that your effort level here is a town tell or that my effort level here is a scum tell? If not, I don't really care about your generalities.

The latter. And my argument is based off of the assumption that very low effort levels like yours are indicative of scum who can't fake scumhunting well.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The notion that I wouldn't have a passable scum game after 7 years is laughable.

Check out Marius and Sulla if you want to see me put in effort as scum. Or ask Whiskers about MLP: Friendship is Awesome which is otherwise lost to the crash; I put plenty of effort into that game.

[Junpei]

Cogito: Every game is different. You're probably struggling to fake your scumhunting a lot this game. Why would you even replace in if you didn't intend to put effort into the game?

[Salamence20]

I'm ready to play hero. Seriously, if this doesn't work or guess wrong, you can do whatever you want in endgame.

I saw that SV posted something very important for winning this game for me, Junpei, and whoever is third town.

I loathe doing VCA, but here's tiny bit of info:

People that Pine voted, Day One (in order):

ac1983fan
brundibar

nhammen
Arugula

Day Two:

Alduskkel

Does scumPine bus? I'll need to check that out.

This right here, is proof that I am town, and so is Junpei. I am claiming VT to prove this notion. Everyone on here that pine voted for I am willing to bet the whole game right here that everyone is town, which would make sense everyone believes Junpei is town, I am also willing to bet the whole game that he is. If you need more proof, here you go:

Whatever, still Town. Add scumpoints to brundibar for that hammer

Pine's last post before he flips scum, he did this in attempt to make it look like I (brundibar) was scumbuddies with him, which I can tell you I am not.

With this, again, I am telling you me and Junpei are town today and shouldn't be lynched. That gives town 2/3 chance to lynch scum...

Whiskers
CES
PoPP

Now, given that Junpei is town from the above, CES has been the only one playing against Junpei's supposed scumhunting. And with a 2/3 shot of hitting scum, I am sure that he is one of them.

Now for everything else:

@Whisker's scum question: I really don't know how to answer this because I have yet to play a scum game, but honestly if I were scum I would probably killed Junpei last night over SV because Junpei is pretty much the lead of the town right now, but then again I don't know if this is smart or dumb scum move because I have yet to be in a scum game.

@Whisker's question about Junpei/CES scumteam: Every vote Pine casted was against town, so I am not going to take the theory into effect today given the evidence above.

@CES vote question: Since it didn't seem we were going to get a Whisker's replacement anytime soon, I figured the best guess would be to vote and see if anyone would jump on for whatever reason, it seems everyone was smart enough to not jump on.

Final Summary:

I am one of the three townies left, chances are Junpei is townie #2, his play has been well enough for him to be a townread today. We don't die today unless you want to end the game and lose (if your town). Two of the scum are right in front of us, either PoPP, CES, or Whiskers. One is town, two are scum. Today CES dies.

FoS: PoPP
FoS: Whiskers
Vote: CES

FOS's are just for reference for now, as I can't really make a claim on who is CES's scumbuddy. But that is for another day.

[Salamence20]

EBWOP:

This vote is real this time and it is not moving.

[Junpei]

Very interesting. I don't think that I'm willing to call you town though because of the assumption that Pine did not vote a scum read on day 1. I mean, if I had a town read on you I would - but that doesn't seem like JUSTIFICATION for a town read on anyone.

I'm definitely okay with voting Cogito today but I want Whiskers to comment more so I can interact with him. Not to be egotistical, but I think that I'm the play tonight assuming we lynch scum and I want to be able to give all my reasoning on my reads before the night in case it's needed for 3way.

Whiskers: Have you completely caught up yet?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why would I suddenly have trouble faking it? Playing as scum is brilliant; even if you don't find anything, you can just make stuff up and people probably won't notice it on account of scumhunting being hard.

As for the latter point, D2-D4 were fairly straightforward affairs with fairly obvious lynches. I got the lynches I wanted (even if they ended up being the wrong ones) so I would say I put in as much effort as I needed to. My effort Today has been subpar but I didn't know at the time of my replacement that the work would wear me down quite the way it has nor that it was going to continue this long (original plan was for me to be done by Sunday.)

P-edit: UNVOTE. Your reasoning for Junpeitown here is superweak and you are throwing the game away. Give me 2 days.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Seriously, Salamence, I believe you're town here. Give me 2 days and I may be able to turn this game around. I've done it before.

The notion that Pine would only vote for town makes zero sense and I'm pretty sure all your other Junpeitown stuff is just playstyle.

[Junpei]

Why would I suddenly have trouble faking it?

Because this is a different game than other games. Are you full of effort in every scum game? No? Why? Because - effort is specific to the environment which it is being applied to.

Salamence: You can unvote if you want, but I'm pretty sure you've tagged scum. Though you're probably scum anyway so there definitely will be no blitz today.

Cogito: Why 2 days? Why all of the sudden are you willing to give effort? You or Salamence have been the main targets all day long (Especially you). Seems like the vote has suddenly gotten you scared.